[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Nasser Abbasi n...@12000.org wrote: On Apr 21, 4:57 am, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Nasser, Just out of curiosity, what about Shift-Return (as opposed to Shift- Enter)? If I use my thumb, I can even press both with the same finger, though usually I use 2nd and 3rd fingers. Or does that not work with your keyboard configuration? Hope we can help you resolve this soon! Yes. SHIFT-RETURN could be done with one hand because as you said, the RETURN key is in a very close proximity to the SHIFT key (on my keyboard at least). The problem though, to do this with one hand, one must twist the thumb in 90 degree angle as one it hitting on RETURN key with the index finger, (I do not think I could press both keys with just one finger), and my thumb has a bit of arthritis which makes hard to bend it too much. It is also a bit awkward to hit a key with a finger twisted in this fashion. I just tried it. Try a keyboard adapted to your hands: http://www.typematrix.com/ So, you can press both SHIFT and RETURN without twisting your fingers ;) -- Johan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
On Apr 21, 3:13 am, Minh Nguyen nguyenmi...@gmail.com wrote: My laptop has only ENTER. To do what you're suggesting, I have to hold down the key FN and press ENTER. Since you said you are using Mathematica, and on your laptop there is no ENTER key, only the RETURN key, and so you had to suffer and hit SHIFT-RETURN each time to evaluate a cell (like with SAGE now), then you could edit the Mathematica key binding file on your installation, and configure another key to send SHIFT-RETURN, so you would only need to press one key after that. I just found about this file myself. For example on how to use, Please see http://www.lamberta.org/blog/mathematica-keybindings/ or google the file name. The file name is called keyEventTranslations.tr and I think this is as of version 6 of Mathematica. I think this solution is something that SAGE could adopt. i.e. Have a keyEventTranslations.tr type file with SAGE installation, and have it set to work as default as things act now. Then one could edit this file to reconfigure key binding. This way one would not need to resort to outside scripts or buy programmable keyboards and such. --Nasser ps. When I use my laptop, which also has no ENTER key, I never use the laptop own keyboard, I always attach my standard USB keyboard to the laptop and use that. It is much easier to use the large keyboard than those tiny keyboards that come build-in with laptops and the USB keyboard has the ENTER key as well, so I never noticed this problem you mentioned. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
Hi Nasser, On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Nasser Abbasi n...@12000.org wrote: Hello; It is a bit annoying having to hit 2 keys (i.e. reach out and use both hands) each time in order to evaluate a cell in sage notebook. I am using windows, and I have to hit SHIFT-ENTER, or SHIFT-RETURN, or I could use the mouse, point it to the little 'evaluate' link below the cell, which is also annoying. But it would be much easier to have ONE key. In Maple, the RETURN key will cause evaluation, and in Mathematica the ENTER key. That statement about Mathematica is very strange to me. With an install of Mathematica 6 out of the box and not fiddling with anything, I have to use Shift-ENTER or Shift-RETURN to evaluate in the worksheet. But I assume that you've done some fiddling with your Mathematica settings to get it just evaluate upon hitting ENTER or RETURN? Can one tell sage to use the ENTER key only (without the shift) to cause cell to evaluate? and have the RETURN key just starts a new line (i.e. as in Mathematica). But ENTER _and_ RETURN are one and the same key on my keyboard. May be with some options or some configuration setting somewhere? I think Mathematica got it right here. In Maple, to start a new line and not cause evaluation, one hits SHIFT-RETURN (again, this is using the notebook interface, i.e. via the browser interface). But I think this would result in more key strokes. I usually have multiple lines of Sage code in a Notebook cell before I actually evaluate them. With what you're suggesting, I would have to press Shift-RETURN or Shift-ENTER to get a new line in the cell without evaluation. I think this would annoy you as well if you do want multiple lines in a cell. Or do you always have a single line of Sage code in a cell and then evaluate it? -- Regards Minh Van Nguyen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
On Apr 21, 1:40 am, Minh Nguyen nguyenmi...@gmail.com wrote: But it would be much easier to have ONE key. In Maple, the RETURN key will cause evaluation, and in Mathematica the ENTER key. That statement about Mathematica is very strange to me. With an install of Mathematica 6 out of the box and not fiddling with anything, I have to use Shift-ENTER or Shift-RETURN to evaluate in the worksheet. But I assume that you've done some fiddling with your Mathematica settings to get it just evaluate upon hitting ENTER or RETURN? Are you on a mac? I've done no fiddling. On windows, if one hits the ENTER key in Mathematica, the cell is evaluated. The ENTER key is that key in the numeric keypad group, usually to the right side of the keyboard. The RETURN key is that (usually) big key in the main keyboard group. RETURN is usually called CR (Carriage return) ascii code 13 ENTER is line feed , ascii code 10 After I wrote the above, I searched wikipedia, and there is a article with pic which explains the difference. It seems from this article, that this difference is not on all keyboards. I use standard PC keyboard, and this is always how it worked. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_key --Nasser --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
Hi Nasser, On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Nasser Abbasi n...@12000.org wrote: On Apr 21, 1:40 am, Minh Nguyen nguyenmi...@gmail.com wrote: But it would be much easier to have ONE key. In Maple, the RETURN key will cause evaluation, and in Mathematica the ENTER key. That statement about Mathematica is very strange to me. With an install of Mathematica 6 out of the box and not fiddling with anything, I have to use Shift-ENTER or Shift-RETURN to evaluate in the worksheet. But I assume that you've done some fiddling with your Mathematica settings to get it just evaluate upon hitting ENTER or RETURN? Are you on a mac? Nope. Mine is a Toshiba laptop dual booting Vista and Debian. I use Mathematica and Maple under Vista. I've done no fiddling. On windows, if one hits the ENTER key in Mathematica, the cell is evaluated. The ENTER key is that key in the numeric keypad group, usually to the right side of the keyboard. The RETURN key is that (usually) big key in the main keyboard group. My laptop has only ENTER. To do what you're suggesting, I have to hold down the key FN and press ENTER. RETURN is usually called CR (Carriage return) ascii code 13 ENTER is line feed , ascii code 10 After I wrote the above, I searched wikipedia, and there is a article with pic which explains the difference. It seems from this article, that this difference is not on all keyboards. I use standard PC keyboard, and this is always how it worked. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_key -- Regards Minh Van Nguyen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
Hi Nasser, Just out of curiosity, what about Shift-Return (as opposed to Shift- Enter)? If I use my thumb, I can even press both with the same finger, though usually I use 2nd and 3rd fingers. Or does that not work with your keyboard configuration? Hope we can help you resolve this soon! - kcrisman --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
On Apr 21, 4:57 am, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Nasser, Just out of curiosity, what about Shift-Return (as opposed to Shift- Enter)? If I use my thumb, I can even press both with the same finger, though usually I use 2nd and 3rd fingers. Or does that not work with your keyboard configuration? Hope we can help you resolve this soon! - kcrisman Yes. SHIFT-RETURN could be done with one hand because as you said, the RETURN key is in a very close proximity to the SHIFT key (on my keyboard at least). The problem though, to do this with one hand, one must twist the thumb in 90 degree angle as one it hitting on RETURN key with the index finger, (I do not think I could press both keys with just one finger), and my thumb has a bit of arthritis which makes hard to bend it too much. It is also a bit awkward to hit a key with a finger twisted in this fashion. I just tried it. But it is a good suggestion and shows imagination and thinking outside the box. I think another solution would be to get one of those programmable keyboards and program it to send SHIFT-RETURN when hitting some F key which is not used. And use that F key for SAGE only. Meanwhile, I have to continue to reach out and use both hands in order to evaluate a SAGE cell. --Nasser --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
Yes. SHIFT-RETURN could be done with one hand because as you said, the RETURN key is in a very close proximity to the SHIFT key (on my keyboard at least). The problem though, to do this with one hand, one must twist the thumb in 90 degree angle as one it hitting on RETURN key with the index finger, (I do not think I could press both keys with just one finger), and my thumb has a bit of arthritis which makes hard to bend it too much. It is also a bit awkward to hit a key with a finger twisted in this fashion. I just tried it. But it is a good suggestion and shows imagination and thinking outside the box. I think another solution would be to get one of those programmable keyboards and program it to send SHIFT-RETURN when hitting some F key which is not used. And use that F key for SAGE only. Meanwhile, I have to continue to reach out and use both hands in order to evaluate a SAGE cell. Hmm. Well, one could click Evaluate, though of course doing it a lot could be annoying/repetitive stress inducing... I have been trying different things on a colleague's normal non-laptop PC keyboard; perhaps 2nd and 3rd or 2nd and 4th fingers (counting thumb as 1st finger) would work for you? I really think that some combination of pointer + another might be suitable, if your keyboard configuration is similar to hers. Of course, this means one has to shift the hand every time, but only right-left, not twisting (I hope). However, I doubt that Return will become even an option, because one would want multiple lines in a single cell. I have no idea what the status of Enter would be, or even if every OS/popular browser would recognize the difference. Minh? But keep asking these kinds of questions. A while ago there was some very helpful feedback on the best way to default-show graphs for different types of color-blindness - the Sage community is interested in keeping the software usable for everyone, not just 90 wpm typing speed demons with ultra-ergonomic keyboards or perfect voice recognition software :) - kcrisman --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
Nasser Abbasi wrote: Hello; It is a bit annoying having to hit 2 keys (i.e. reach out and use both hands) each time in order to evaluate a cell in sage notebook. I am using windows, and I have to hit SHIFT-ENTER, or SHIFT-RETURN, or I could use the mouse, point it to the little 'evaluate' link below the cell, which is also annoying. But it would be much easier to have ONE key. In Maple, the RETURN key will cause evaluation, and in Mathematica the ENTER key. Can one tell sage to use the ENTER key only (without the shift) to cause cell to evaluate? and have the RETURN key just starts a new line (i.e. as in Mathematica). May be with some options or some configuration setting somewhere? I think Mathematica got it right here. In Maple, to start a new line and not cause evaluation, one hits SHIFT-RETURN I think that's reasonable. I've run into at least one other MMA user that consistently uses the Mac enter key to evaluate expressions in MMA, and wishes Sage would do the same. How many people here press enter (on the mac keyboard, say) to get a new line? If not many do or no one does, I think it'd be great to change the notebook so that enter evaluated the cell. Jason -- Jason Grout --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
On 21 Apr 2009, at 10:23, Jason Grout wrote: Nasser Abbasi wrote: Hello; It is a bit annoying having to hit 2 keys (i.e. reach out and use both hands) each time in order to evaluate a cell in sage notebook. I am using windows, and I have to hit SHIFT-ENTER, or SHIFT-RETURN, or I could use the mouse, point it to the little 'evaluate' link below the cell, which is also annoying. But it would be much easier to have ONE key. In Maple, the RETURN key will cause evaluation, and in Mathematica the ENTER key. Can one tell sage to use the ENTER key only (without the shift) to cause cell to evaluate? and have the RETURN key just starts a new line (i.e. as in Mathematica). May be with some options or some configuration setting somewhere? I think Mathematica got it right here. In Maple, to start a new line and not cause evaluation, one hits SHIFT-RETURN I think that's reasonable. I've run into at least one other MMA user that consistently uses the Mac enter key to evaluate expressions in MMA, and wishes Sage would do the same. How many people here press enter (on the mac keyboard, say) to get a new line? If not many do or no one does, I think it'd be great to change the notebook so that enter evaluated the cell. No single change will keep all, or even most, users happy. On my Mac laptop, for example, Enter and Return are on the same key. If I want Enter, I must also press the 'fn' key, way on the far left of the keyboard, which makes it a two-handed manoeuvre. But Shift-Return is an easy one-handed manoeuvre for me, on my keyboard. Whatever change is made, it should probably be easily configurable, to cater for people with different needs, different keyboard layouts, etc. The current behaviour should probably remain the default, to avoid great howls of pain from users who have grown accustomed to it. -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
In Windows, such things, as well as any other key (and mouse) remapping can be done using an autohotkey script, http://www.autohotkey.com/ Alec Mihailovs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-support] Re: shift-return, shift-enter, click-mouse-on-evaluate. on evaluating a cell in a notebook
Hi kcrisman, On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:09 PM, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. SHIFT-RETURN could be done with one hand because as you said, the RETURN key is in a very close proximity to the SHIFT key (on my keyboard at least). The problem though, to do this with one hand, one must twist the thumb in 90 degree angle as one it hitting on RETURN key with the index finger, (I do not think I could press both keys with just one finger), and my thumb has a bit of arthritis which makes hard to bend it too much. It is also a bit awkward to hit a key with a finger twisted in this fashion. I just tried it. But it is a good suggestion and shows imagination and thinking outside the box. I think another solution would be to get one of those programmable keyboards and program it to send SHIFT-RETURN when hitting some F key which is not used. And use that F key for SAGE only. Meanwhile, I have to continue to reach out and use both hands in order to evaluate a SAGE cell. Hmm. Well, one could click Evaluate, though of course doing it a lot could be annoying/repetitive stress inducing... I have been trying different things on a colleague's normal non-laptop PC keyboard; perhaps 2nd and 3rd or 2nd and 4th fingers (counting thumb as 1st finger) would work for you? I really think that some combination of pointer + another might be suitable, if your keyboard configuration is similar to hers. Of course, this means one has to shift the hand every time, but only right-left, not twisting (I hope). However, I doubt that Return will become even an option, because one would want multiple lines in a single cell. I have no idea what the status of Enter would be, or even if every OS/popular browser would recognize the difference. Minh? Hmm... It's very difficult for me to productively comment on good/best ways to work around issues raised by Nasser. I'm a touch typist, and am mostly comfortable being so on PC, Mac and laptop keyboards. But keep asking these kinds of questions. A while ago there was some very helpful feedback on the best way to default-show graphs for different types of color-blindness - the Sage community is interested in keeping the software usable for everyone, not just 90 wpm typing speed demons with ultra-ergonomic keyboards or perfect voice recognition software :) -- Regards Minh Van Nguyen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
