Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Let us put it this way. There are several terms being dismissed as pretentious expressions in this thread, that actually have specific meanings attached to them, and these meanings are used consistently I think it's pretentious to use a big or rarely used word when a commonly one would do just as well. In specific contexts, a technical discussion for example, precision and conciseness may require the use of complicated jargon. That would not be objectionable, IMHO. -- b
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
Yes - but a lot of the words bandied around in this thread are from either finance or IT architecture, where they do have specific meanings and a consistent usage I won't deny that jargon can get overused by people who don't quite get what the words actually mean --Original Message-- From: Biju Chacko Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me Sent: Apr 24, 2012 11:34 On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Let us put it this way. There are several terms being dismissed as pretentious expressions in this thread, that actually have specific meanings attached to them, and these meanings are used consistently I think it's pretentious to use a big or rarely used word when a commonly one would do just as well. In specific contexts, a technical discussion for example, precision and conciseness may require the use of complicated jargon. That would not be objectionable, IMHO. -- b -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.netwrote: Yes - but a lot of the words bandied around in this thread are from either finance or IT architecture, where they do have specific meanings and a consistent usage I won't deny that jargon can get overused by people who don't quite get what the words actually mean When you take word from a different industry and force-fit it to, say IT or finance, it gets crazy. By themselves, I am sure most of the words are quite sensible. But we, humans as a whole and specifically IT/Finance professionals, have taken really good words and have now made them outcasts. When I was a kid, gay meant carelessly happy. I cannot tell my 7 year old what it means now. Rather, I don't know how to. --Venkat
[silk] Does IQ really matter
I was reading this article [1] and it made me wonder how much it matters in the world as we know it today. As an aside, have any of you tested your IQ? Care to share? --Venkat [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazine/can-you-make-yourself-smarter.html?pagewanted=6_r=2pagewanted=all
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
A long time ago, I was roped into organising a picnic in my workplace. There was this guy who told me in all seriousness - We are going to be in the global top 10 soon. So the picnic should be professional and must include things which he had learnt at a recent manager conference. He wanted to rephrase the invite email and I was taught that the idea of being 'professional' was to include lots more nouns. Instead of saying, let us know if you'll come or not, he wanted to write 'Please revert with the notification of your acceptance'. He wanted to add rules (with lots of nouns, of course) on how people should reach the place and when and what they should bring etc. And he wanted to buy gifts that were official and fun. I don't remember his name. All I can recall is that he had a PhD and signed his emails with a Dr. But this was just the beginning of me being the creator of nouns. Every time we wrote a proposal, my job was to spot possibilities and add the nouns - 'the prime functionality of the test bed is identification of all possible bugs'. Folks liked longer sentences. It was all quite professional. Sruthi
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
I would like to meet Dr. Noun PhD. On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Sruthi Krishnan srukr...@gmail.comwrote: A long time ago, I was roped into organising a picnic in my workplace. There was this guy who told me in all seriousness - We are going to be in the global top 10 soon. So the picnic should be professional and must include things which he had learnt at a recent manager conference. He wanted to rephrase the invite email and I was taught that the idea of being 'professional' was to include lots more nouns. Instead of saying, let us know if you'll come or not, he wanted to write 'Please revert with the notification of your acceptance'. He wanted to add rules (with lots of nouns, of course) on how people should reach the place and when and what they should bring etc. And he wanted to buy gifts that were official and fun. I don't remember his name. All I can recall is that he had a PhD and signed his emails with a Dr. But this was just the beginning of me being the creator of nouns. Every time we wrote a proposal, my job was to spot possibilities and add the nouns - 'the prime functionality of the test bed is identification of all possible bugs'. Folks liked longer sentences. It was all quite professional. Sruthi
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
When I was a kid, gay meant carelessly happy. I cannot tell my 7 year old what it means now. Rather, I don't know how to. See, sometimes one uncle loves another uncle. Sometimes, aunties love other aunties too. This is perfectly normal, kiddo.
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
Or you could use the equivalent of Noel Coward's St Dunstan's explanation. Sent from my iPad On Apr 24, 2012, at 1:17 PM, Mahesh Murthy mahesh.mur...@gmail.com wrote: When I was a kid, gay meant carelessly happy. I cannot tell my 7 year old what it means now. Rather, I don't know how to. See, sometimes one uncle loves another uncle. Sometimes, aunties love other aunties too. This is perfectly normal, kiddo.
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
On Apr 24, 2012, at 2:04 AM, Biju Chacko wrote: On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Let us put it this way. There are several terms being dismissed as pretentious expressions in this thread, that actually have specific meanings attached to them, and these meanings are used consistently I think it's pretentious to use a big or rarely used word when a commonly one would do just as well. -- b I'm not against neologisms or even (on occasion) the verbing of nouns. I think we've been talking not about pretension, but rather cliche, which often indicates rote thinking or empty thought. For example, I submitted the phrase think outside the box. That phrase might have been imaginative the first time it was used, but it doesn't wear well, in my opinion. When I was trying to come up with entries for this thread, I simply asked myself, What would B. say? B. is my dear sister, an executive with ATT. She speaks in business cliches. She cannot say we need to be creative or we need to think carefully about this. She must say, we need to think outside the box. She cannot say, I'll call him or I'll send him a note; she must say I'll reach out to him. This is the language of her workplace, and she has completely internalized it. I like B. well enough; she's my sister, after all. But sometimes her way of speaking really depresses me, because she's not a stupid woman but she is capable of very shallow thought, and I believe that thinking and speaking in cliches is both a reason for and a symptom of this. My brothers and sisters and I are in nearly daily communication (by email) about our parents, who both suffer from dementia and other diseases associated with getting old. I can't complain about B.; she does so much more to help our parents than I do (she lives much closer to them than I do). But her way of speaking and writing often make me cringe; inwardly I'm doing repeated Homer Simpson D'oh!s. Regards, jrs
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
On Tuesday 24 Apr 2012 1:17:05 pm Mahesh Murthy wrote: This is perfectly normal, kiddo. umm..so is diabetes. But we tend to try and cure or control diabetes. shiv
Re: [silk] Does IQ really matter
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Venkat Mangudi - Silk s...@venkatmangudi.com wrote: As an aside, have any of you tested your IQ? Care to share? I was asked what my IQ was and I replied that the IQ test I had taken was, to my mind, not a test applicable to all human beings, it needed a certain kind of culture and upbringing, and so I could not hold such a test as valid. I also intuitively felt that intelligence is of different kinds. Having said all this, I was then asked point blank what my IQ was rated as. On hearing my answer, the reply was, But that's great! Why do you want to say all this about IQ tests, then? Intelligence, that has not been leavened by wisdom, maturity and humility, is like the raw clay which can either be fashioned into a better human being...or a figure of raw clay. Deepa.
Re: [silk] Does IQ really matter
As an aside, have any of you tested your IQ? Care to share? --Venkat I gave a Mensa test once that I cleared. But I don't recall being given an actual IQ score. The test was fun enough to give though. I like giving exams. Don't judge me.
Re: [silk] Does IQ really matter
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Sidin Vadukut sidin.vadu...@gmail.com wrote: I gave a Mensa test once that I cleared. But I don't recall being given an actual IQ score. The test was fun enough to give though. I like giving exams. Don't judge me. Heh, a friend informed me recently that a two year old had been admitted into Mensa, to which my response was, this proves what I've always suspected, Mensa is for two year olds http://www.timescolonist.com/Still+diapers+Mensa/6508618/story.html
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 3:11 PM, John Sundman j...@wetmachine.com wrote: I like B. well enough; she's my sister, after all. But sometimes her way of speaking really depresses me, because she's not a stupid woman but she is capable of very shallow thought, and I believe that thinking and speaking in cliches is both a reason for and a symptom of this. Large organizations abhor non-uniformity; thinking and speaking in cliches precludes the unpredictability introduced by an individual's emotions, heritage, learning, cultures and all of that unpredictable stuff. Not that different from uniforms, bootcamps and ranks used in armies and prisons to drill out your ego, and give you a new identity as a member of the team. The modern organization that places itself beyond the personal sphere of human society is rather new. A lucid observation point in historical time for me for this phenomenon is when the British introduced the organized police and courts in India surprising many of the locals used to a life more personal. Once it happened that Mirza Ghalib (1797-1869), the famous Urdu poet of the sunsetting Mughal empire was brought up on charges of gambling before a British judge who knew Ghalib perfectly well in social circles but refused to show any sign of recognition in the court room. This infuriated Ghalib more than the charges and the fine which he was ill afforded to pay, and he tells as much in a letter to a friend. In the Mughal and other Indian courts when a previously honorable man was brought up on serious charges, his case would be heard with the respect and decorum it deserved, with full regard to his mental state and place in society. There was an interest in the truth, and not merely in evidence. There's little to tell if better justice was meted out under that system, but an evidence based approach appears fairer to most, and so that's what we have today, consistent with the belief that the appearance of justice is as important as justice. Thinking and speaking in cliches is not therefore an isolated social twitch privy only to the blackberry generation.
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
On Tuesday 24 Apr 2012 9:21:28 pm Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: In the Mughal and other Indian courts when a previously honorable man was brought up on serious charges, his case would be heard with the respect and decorum it deserved, with full regard to his mental state and place in society. There was an interest in the truth, and not merely in evidence. There's little to tell if better justice was meted out under that system, but an evidence based approach appears fairer to most, and so that's what we have today, consistent with the belief that the appearance of justice is as important as justice. This is simply not true. It is a show that was put on for us natives who lapped it all up eagerly and went gaga over British Justice . I know one Mr Nair, the author of a book called inside IB and RAW who was appointed to the Indian Police Service in the last decades of the Raj (He is in his 90s now). He writes of how the system had designated a criminal caste in Andhra from whome one scapegoat would be arrested and punished every time a crime was committed. The way Gen Dyer was let off after the genocidal massacre at Jalianwala bagh is more representative of the truth. It still happens today. The underdogs get their asses whupped. Think Trayvon Martin. shiiv
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
On Apr 24, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Large organizations abhor non-uniformity; thinking and speaking in cliches precludes the unpredictability introduced by an individual's emotions, heritage, learning, cultures and all of that unpredictable stuff. Having spent twenty-five years or so in and around engineering organizations of computer and software companies from small to large, I tend to have the Dilbert world view, in which engineers communicate in no-nonsense language and judge success by a very objective criterion: does the thing work, or doesn't it?, while other people in the organization, such as management, and Heaven Preserve Us, marketing, don't have such objective criteria and operate in a world of bullshit (where they think outside the box and leverage synergy, etc). I believe that there is a lot of truth to the Dilbertian world view (and hey, he said, putting on his marketing hat, read my novel Acts of the Apostles for an in-depth exploration of it!) I realize that one of the reasons I think Dilbert is essentially correct about the discipline of engineering being inherently less susceptible to bullshit than, say, those of marketing or management is that I'm from engineering and Dilbert's worldview is flattering to me. People tend to believe things that make them feel good about themselves, and I'm no exception. But I really do believe that engineers and scientists, even those in large organizations, have more finely-tuned bullshit-detectors than people in other corporate walks of life. jrs
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
On 4/23/12 11:04 PM April 23, 2012, Biju Chacko wrote: On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Let us put it this way. There are several terms being dismissed as pretentious expressions in this thread, that actually have specific meanings attached to them, and these meanings are used consistently I think it's pretentious to use a big or rarely used word when a commonly one would do just as well. In specific contexts, a technical discussion for example, precision and conciseness may require the use of complicated jargon. That would not be objectionable, IMHO. -- b What bothers me is when they use the suffix -ize to turn a noun based on a verb into a verb. “Utilize” is the most common offender, and it's kind of understandable because utility is not obviously based on the word “use.” Quite often with verbs that end in -ize, there is already a perfectly good English verb that means exactly the same thing. Usually this verb is one or two syllables and quite functional. Why go tacking an -ize onto the end of nouned verb to make another verb? It's pretentious, it's tacky, it's ignorant, and it's lazy, all in one move. -- Heather Madrone (heat...@madrone.com) http://www.sunsplinter.blogspot.com Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice. Justice at its best is power correcting everything that stands against love. - Martin Luther King
Re: [silk] Does IQ really matter
I gave a Mensa test once that I cleared. But I don't recall being given an actual IQ score. The test was fun enough to give though. I like giving exams. Don't judge me. The correct verb associated with exams, for both examiner and examinee, is 'take'. While this has no relevance to the topic of discussion, I couldn't resist a spot of pedantry. :) On topic, I took an IQ test as a child, received a genius level rating, and was convinced it was a crock of smelly stuff because I was (am) no genius.
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
Let me be brutally honest. My take on this situation here is that we need to revector our effort away from all this non value adding activity of this email thread. Let us idenitfy one prime and one co-prime to lead this task force. Deepak
Re: [silk] The Lyttle Lytton Contest
On Monday 23 Apr 2012 4:54:00 pm Udhay Shankar N wrote: You may be familiar with the Bulwer-Lytton contest [1]. The Lyttle Lytton contest [2], however, reimagines this for the age of twitter - entries are limited to 200 characters. The 2012 winners [3] are worth a read. I found it satisfying, in a way, that almost the entirety of _Twilight_ was quoted in 200 character chunks as entries to this contest (recall that this is a contest for atrociously *bad* writing...) Udhay [1] http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/ [2] http://adamcadre.ac/lyttle.html [3] http://adamcadre.ac/12lyttle.html Fiction mimics fact http://www.sananews.net/english/bomb-blast-at-lahore-railway-station-claim- three-lives/ The bomb was kept in a black bad and was exploded with a huge explosion. shiv
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
Perfect. (Although I, personally, myself, would have put hyphens in non-value-adding. But maybe that's just me. ) jrs On Apr 24, 2012, at 5:51 PM, Deepak Misra wrote: Let me be brutally honest. My take on this situation here is that we need to revector our effort away from all this non value adding activity of this email thread. Let us idenitfy one prime and one co-prime to lead this task force. Deepak
Re: [silk] Does IQ really matter
Some of the IQ Tests floating about on the Net and Readers Digest rely heavily on vocabulary, skill with English, etc. The Mensa test is slightly more egalitarian, and uses pattern recognition type questions. I don't know whether such questions can transcend cultures, or whether they require some level of proficiency in geometry. Does anyone have any thoughts on the fundamental basis of intelligence tests, i.e., are they biased towards the mathematically inclined, is it even possible to have a universal definition of human intelligence, does higher IQ really help, and so on. On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Deepa Mohan apeedna...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Venkat Mangudi - Silk s...@venkatmangudi.com wrote: As an aside, have any of you tested your IQ? Care to share? I was asked what my IQ was and I replied that the IQ test I had taken was, to my mind, not a test applicable to all human beings, it needed a certain kind of culture and upbringing, and so I could not hold such a test as valid. I also intuitively felt that intelligence is of different kinds.
Re: [silk] Does IQ really matter
On Wednesday 25 Apr 2012 10:25:32 am Lahar Appaiah wrote: Does anyone have any thoughts on the fundamental basis of intelligence tests, i.e., are they biased towards the mathematically inclined, is it even possible to have a universal definition of human intelligence, does higher IQ really help, and so on. I think IQ tests are a load of crock like a meauring tape to assess sexual ability. I meet plenty of illiterate but smart people who would fail any IQ test by a huge margin. Calling the parameter Intelligence Quotient was a coup in that it made sheeple associate intelligence with that test, just like Religion of Peace might make people associate peace with a religion. I think it is only lack of intelligence to irrevocably link IQ with intelligence except when used sarcastically or as a put down. shiv
Re: [silk] Does IQ really matter
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:38 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: I meet plenty of illiterate but smart people who would fail any IQ test by a huge margin. True that. Many people are street smart but cannot sign their own name. And because everyone has been telling them they are illiterate, they are scared of anything that requires reading or writing. But give them a cell phone, and they can use it like anyone else who can read/write. --Venakt
Re: [silk] Does IQ really matter
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Venkat Mangudi - Silk s...@venkatmangudi.com wrote: True that. Many people are street smart but cannot sign their own name. And because everyone has been telling them they are illiterate, they are scared of anything that requires reading or writing. But give them a cell phone, and they can use it like anyone else who can read/write. --Venakt ^ Including people who can't even spell their name correctly. :-)
