Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
At 2010-04-20 07:55:19 +0530, cybers...@gmail.com wrote: ams - with respect may I point out that it was you who first raised a strawman about lack of Hindu violence on this thread which you tried to knock down subsequently. Sure, go ahead. It would be churlish of me to deny you the pleasure of typing strawman a few more times. It only comes out of people who are sensitive and defensive about being associated with Hindus while being afraid of being mistaken for one of them. (Lesser beings, in other words?) It is absurd to look at a religion in isolation from the people who practice it. It is absurd, when someone mentions religiously-motivated violence, to say that the religion is one thing and what people choose to do is something else entirely, and that followers of other religions do the same kinds of things anyway. Because of Hinduism's Frankenstein's-monster (i.e. patchwork) nature, it makes even less sense to claim it's tolerant than it does to say Islam is peaceful, and there's plenty of intolerance and violence of various kinds on display if you look beyond the buzzwords. TL;DR: strawman strawman strawman burn burn burn -- ams
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:31 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: claiming to support a religion have used a Goebbelsian propaganda tactic to Since you have now invoked Godwin's law, This discussion is officially going to the dogs. -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
In which case, I wonder if dogs living in a Hindu household automatically become Hindu dogs On 20-Apr-2010, at 12:01 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: Since you have now invoked Godwin's law, This discussion is officially going to the dogs. -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
Krish Ashok [20/04/10 12:21 +0530]: In which case, I wonder if dogs living in a Hindu household automatically become Hindu dogs Tambram household dogs even become vegetarian, and I've seen at least one pomarenian that had a dot of kungumam on its forehead.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Krish Ashok krishas...@gmail.com wrote: In which case, I wonder if dogs living in a Hindu household automatically become Hindu dogs But of course. My mother regularly applied a tilak to Sparky's forehead after her puja.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Tambram household dogs even become vegetarian, and I've seen at least one pomarenian that had a dot of kungumam on its forehead. Ah, yes. Dal rice and milk it was for every day of his fifteen years, except the occasional treat of toasted bread, chapatis, mangoes (he loved mangoes!), and once a year, birthday cake. He was also expected to catch the occasional mouse that found its way into the house, but not expected to eat it. Mom had full faith. A Hindu dog, yes.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
Kiran Jonnalagadda [20/04/10 12:52 +0530]: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Tambram household dogs even become vegetarian, and I've seen at least one pomarenian that had a dot of kungumam on its forehead. Ah, yes. Dal rice and milk it was for every day of his fifteen years, except the occasional treat of toasted bread, chapatis, mangoes (he loved mangoes!), and once a year, birthday cake. There was this pom that lived opposite my parents' house before they relocated to madras, with an extreme fondness for dosas. She (the dog) would even come and knock on the door with her paw if it were shut, and she smelt dosas being (fried? what do you call it when you pour batter on a griddle and make pancakes?)
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
(fried? what do you call it when you pour batter on a griddle and make pancakes?) A literal translation from Tamil would suggest a dosa is 'shot'?
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
Sriram Karra [20/04/10 13:07 +0530]: (fried? what do you call it when you pour batter on a griddle and make pancakes?) A literal translation from Tamil would suggest a dosa is 'shot'? to heat a dosa would be more literal / appropriate for chudarathu being tirunelveli / deep south tambrams we'd say vaakarathu
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: (fried? what do you call it when you pour batter on a griddle and make pancakes?) What's wrong with 'made'? It's not a twenty dollar word, but it fits. Cheeni
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Krish Ashok krishas...@gmail.com wrote: In which case, I wonder if dogs living in a Hindu household automatically become Hindu dogs Is there any doubt about this? I have seen Tambram families proudly saying that their dogs are pyooor vegetarians, eat curd rice, and probably do tharpanam for their ancestors as well Why, in our country, is the word vegetarian invariably preceded by the word pure? Deepa.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Why, in our country, is the word vegetarian invariably preceded by the word pure? Because those foul egg and mushroom eaters also claim to be vegetarian? It's like how a Nokia or a Bajaj isn't really a Nokia or a Bajaj unless it's a Genuine Nokia or a Genuine Bajaj. Kiran
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
Kiran Jonnalagadda [20/04/10 19:51 +0530]: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Why, in our country, is the word vegetarian invariably preceded by the word pure? Because those foul egg and mushroom eaters also claim to be vegetarian? and bongs are wont to exclaim you are a bhejetarian and you dont eat phish!
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
--- On Tue, 20/4/10, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: From: Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism? To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Tuesday, 20 April, 2010, 20:09 Kiran Jonnalagadda [20/04/10 19:51 +0530]: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Why, in our country, is the word vegetarian invariably preceded by the word pure? Because those foul egg and mushroom eaters also claim to be vegetarian? and bongs are wont to exclaim you are a bhejetarian and you dont eat phish! Hey, hey, less of this ethnic denigration. Every sensible person, including Saraswats, know that fish are Jolo-Phool, flowers of the water. I don't touch the damn things myself (can't stand the stink) but the reason why 'pure' vegetarian is needed is to filter out frauds like me. I eat vegetarian, except for pork and beef. And that too increasingly rarely as the crannies between my teeth increase in size with the years.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
I can jaast pheel the lobh toonaait Phone-Mail On 20-Apr-2010, at 20:09, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Kiran Jonnalagadda [20/04/10 19:51 +0530]: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Why, in our country, is the word vegetarian invariably preceded by the word pure? Because those foul egg and mushroom eaters also claim to be vegetarian? and bongs are wont to exclaim you are a bhejetarian and you dont eat phish!
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
This is the kind of thread I can follow. Particklerly after 5 days of Gormandising on Goa Phone-Mail On 20-Apr-2010, at 20:51, Indrajit Gupta bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote: --- On Tue, 20/4/10, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: From: Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism? To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Tuesday, 20 April, 2010, 20:09 Kiran Jonnalagadda [20/04/10 19:51 +0530]: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Why, in our country, is the word vegetarian invariably preceded by the word pure? Because those foul egg and mushroom eaters also claim to be vegetarian? and bongs are wont to exclaim you are a bhejetarian and you dont eat phish! Hey, hey, less of this ethnic denigration. Every sensible person, including Saraswats, know that fish are Jolo- Phool, flowers of the water. I don't touch the damn things myself (can't stand the stink) but the reason why 'pure' vegetarian is needed is to filter out frauds like me. I eat vegetarian, except for pork and beef. And that too increasingly rarely as the crannies between my teeth increase in size with the years.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
IN Goa, I mean. Phone-Mail On 20-Apr-2010, at 21:02, J Alfred Prufrock another.prufr...@gmail.com wrote: This is the kind of thread I can follow. Particklerly after 5 days of Gormandising on Goa Phone-Mail On 20-Apr-2010, at 20:51, Indrajit Gupta bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote: --- On Tue, 20/4/10, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: From: Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism? To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Tuesday, 20 April, 2010, 20:09 Kiran Jonnalagadda [20/04/10 19:51 +0530]: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Why, in our country, is the word vegetarian invariably preceded by the word pure? Because those foul egg and mushroom eaters also claim to be vegetarian? and bongs are wont to exclaim you are a bhejetarian and you dont eat phish! Hey, hey, less of this ethnic denigration. Every sensible person, including Saraswats, know that fish are Jolo- Phool, flowers of the water. I don't touch the damn things myself (can't stand the stink) but the reason why 'pure' vegetarian is needed is to filter out frauds like me. I eat vegetarian, except for pork and beef. And that too increasingly rarely as the crannies between my teeth increase in size with the years.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
--- On Tue, 20/4/10, J Alfred Prufrock another.prufr...@gmail.com wrote: From: J Alfred Prufrock another.prufr...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism? To: J Alfred Prufrock another.prufr...@gmail.com Cc: silklist@lists.hserus.net silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Tuesday, 20 April, 2010, 21:03 IN Goa, I mean. Phone-Mail On 20-Apr-2010, at 21:02, J Alfred Prufrock another.prufr...@gmail.com wrote: This is the kind of thread I can follow. Particklerly after 5 days of Gormandising on Goa Phone-Mail On 20-Apr-2010, at 20:51, Indrajit Gupta bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote: --- On Tue, 20/4/10, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: From: Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism? To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Tuesday, 20 April, 2010, 20:09 Kiran Jonnalagadda [20/04/10 19:51 +0530]: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Why, in our country, is the word vegetarian invariably preceded by the word pure? Because those foul egg and mushroom eaters also claim to be vegetarian? and bongs are wont to exclaim you are a bhejetarian and you dont eat phish! Hey, hey, less of this ethnic denigration. Every sensible person, including Saraswats, know that fish are Jolo-Phool, flowers of the water. I don't touch the damn things myself (can't stand the stink) but the reason why 'pure' vegetarian is needed is to filter out frauds like me. I eat vegetarian, except for pork and beef. And that too increasingly rarely as the crannies between my teeth increase in size with the years. Is the 'Gormandising' intended to rhyme with 'particklerly', or do you simply have doctrinal objections to gourmandise?
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 8:19 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 18 Apr 2010 6:22:52 pm Biju Chacko wrote: On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Abhijit Menon-Sen a...@toroid.org wrote: At 2010-04-17 11:55:25 +0530, mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Some religions (though not Hinduism) have no place for those who do not believe; they are labelled pagan or heathen or unbelievers and can be persecuted and killed... Yeah. No persecution and killing of unbelievers when it comes to Hinduism. Nothing to see here, move right along. Um ... Gujarat '02, Delhi '84, Kandhamal '08? -- b While on the subject, why leave out the Goa inquisition that improved the level of love and brotherhood in the area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition Because it _isn't_ an example of Hindus killing non-Hindus? I don't believe there are _any_ religions without blood on their hands. I was merely pointing out that IMO Hinduism is equally guilty. -- b
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote: hands. I was merely pointing out that IMO Hinduism is equally guilty. There were many merry blood thirsty battles for millennia between the Indian religions before Islam Christianity made sufficient inroads. Kings fought each other for Shaivite, Vaishnavite, Jain or Buddhist supremacy in every corner of India. When the Westerners mistook all the Indian religions to be Hinduism the locals must have let it be because it was a good compromise and an end to a long history of rivalry and misery. Although Krishna seems to have met Apollo without coming to blows in 1500BCE - the port city of Muziris flourished for ~2500 years without much religious fall out. The Roman policy for long has remained to stay well away from local politics and religion, this was one of the principal reasons they managed to hold onto world power for as long as they did. Interestingly, the organizational structure of 16th century European sea farers and Christian missionaries is much the same as 21st century VC backed startups and Al Qaeda backed terrorists. Cheeni
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
At 2010-04-19 08:18:59 +0530, cybers...@gmail.com wrote: What religions dictate and what followers of religions do are two different things. Right. One is smoke, the other is mirrors. The act of attributing a religious motivation to a societal event or societal situation is a political act. The act of interpreting *any* event or situation is a political act. Or were you using political as a dirty word, as in only bad people do that sort of thing? How often do you read the assertion that Muslims do not kill Muslims? Sorry, I've never read it. The claim I *do* read—frequently on silk—is that Hinduism is a very tolerant, permissive religion that (to over-simplify) wouldn't hurt a fly and couldn't care less what you do or believe or not. To support that position, it seems one has to think of Hinduism as a religion that doesn't really exist… or if it does, it has no scriptures and doesn't prescribe anything… but even if it does, it doesn't have any followers… or at least, they can't be identified… or if they can, it's a politically-motivated act to do so, and anyway, what they do has nothing to do with the religion itself, no matter how the people in question identify themselves or what they claim their own motivations are. And Muslims kill each other anyway, so what's the big deal? Using that framework, it's possible to handwave away a wide range of activities by people who claim they're Hindu (but any disinterested observer will tell you they're obviously just followers of Hinduism): from historical oppression of other sects/religions, to Khap panchayats in Haryana ordering people to be killed for getting married too close to home, to missionaries being burned by mobs, to systematically planning and executing the butchering of many hundreds of people. All just the misguided actions of individuals. Or groups of individuals. Or groups of individuals who think they're Hindus, but don't know what their *real* motivations are. Nothing to do with religion… and besides, Muslims have honour killings too, and look, your fly is open! -- ams
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Monday 19 Apr 2010 6:58:10 pm Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote: The act of interpreting *any* event or situation is a political act. Or were you using political as a dirty word, as in only bad people do that sort of thing? Yes. If political acts are bad, I am bad because a large proportion of my statements are political in nature. The point that I want to make is that acts that are passed of as religious in nature are also political acts. There is aan important complication here. Religions request immunity from being kicked in the butt because they are religions. Such immunity will not come from me anyway as long as religions commit political acts or political statements are made in the garb of religious statements. If politics is bad, religions that do politics are also bad. And I will kick them all in the butt. The claim I *do* read—frequently on silk—is that Hinduism is a very tolerant, permissive religion that (to over-simplify) wouldn't hurt a fly and couldn't care less what you do or believe or not. Sorry I don't recall reading this on silk. Would you be greatly inconvenienced to point out two posts from anyone in the archives that make this assertion and prove that this is not the first of three strawmen you have created. To support that position, it seems one has to think of Hinduism as a religion that doesn't really exist… or if it does, it has no scriptures and doesn't prescribe anything… but even if it does, it doesn't have any followers… or at least, they can't be identified… or if they can, it's a politically-motivated act to do so, and anyway, what they do has nothing to do with the religion itself, no matter how the people in question identify themselves or what they claim their own motivations are. Hey don't confuse yourself. Hindus is the default name for all the pagans of India. People get their knickers in a knot trying to define Hindu only because a whole collection of pagan beliefs were bunched together and dumped in a bin labelled Hinduism. Most Hindus still don't realise that many of their beliefs and practices are exactly the pagan beliefs and practices that are verboten in Christianity and islam. The sooner they discover that the better it will be. if you want one name for Hinduism it could be paganism. Using that name would give everyone a ebtter handle on what we are talking about. And Muslims kill each other anyway, so what's the big deal? Well if kiiling Muslims is a not big deal then it should not worry you if Hindus kill Muslims should it? Why the ansgst then if Hindus call temselves tolerant? They are murderers who are lying, but why should you care? Using that framework, it's possible to handwave away a wide range of activities by people who claim they're Hindu (but any disinterested It is possible. But I woud appreeciate being pointed to any resource that shows that the Khap actions are being handwaved away by Hindus.You are creating a strawman sir. The second of three. All just the misguided actions of individuals. Or groups of individuals. Or groups of individuals who think they're Hindus, but don't know what their *real* motivations are. Nothing to do with religion… and besides, Muslims have honour killings too, and look, your fly is open! Well played. Hindus have honor Killings. Muslims have honor killings. So whose argument is it that Hindu society is innocent, given that you accuse list members of saying that. I believe you are having a rant as an anticipated position you want to hold just in case some Hindu decides to defend anything that is Hindu. But if no Hindu defends that you are only having a rant no? Remember that you are the very person who put up the following strawman that you are now knocking down. (strawman three) Yeah. No persecution and killing of unbelievers when it comes to Hinduism. Nothing to see here, move right along. -- ams Must you reduce yourself to strawmen and accusations that someone on silk said something you disliked in the past? That is not funny sir. The rhetoric is entertaining, but I would prefer to see the money. :P shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
At 2010-04-19 21:01:37 +0530, cybers...@gmail.com wrote: Would you be greatly inconvenienced to point out two posts from anyone in the archives that make this assertion and prove that this is not the first of three strawmen you have created. Yes, I would. I remember what happened the last time I spent an hour or two finding references to support $whatever you disagreed with at the time. It doesn't seem worth the effort to do it again. Sorry. They are murderers who are lying, but why should you care? Why is that relevant? Lying murderers of any shape and colour make me nervous in inverse proportion to their distance from the government (figuratively) and myself (literally). The rhetoric is entertaining Yippee, I'm moving up in the world. -- ams
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
Ayhodhya was a political act, but it was also self evidently a religious, and specifically an act that used Hinduism to incite religious violence against others. From it has flowed a river of religious violence in the name of Hinduism deliberately encouraged by people using Hinduism to perpetrate religious and political violence against non-Hindus. Anyone who claims that violence is not Hindu or the perpetrators are not Hindus or that it is not being done in the name of Hinduism is being disingenuous. It doesn't matter if Muslims farted first, or fart more, or if their farts are more smelly and bringing it up serves only as an attempt at distraction. -- Charles
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Tuesday 20 Apr 2010 2:48:06 am Charles Haynes wrote: From it has flowed a river of religious violence in the name of Hinduism deliberately encouraged by people using Hinduism to perpetrate religious and political violence against non-Hindus. This is such a blinkered and restricted view of the history of Hindu violence that it classifies as ignorance. Why do you think the pagans (Hindus) of India survived with many of their beliefs intact while the religions Christianity and Islam overran and eliminated the pagans of Africa, Europe and much of Asia? It is because Hindus were violent enough to kill others. Even Buddhism was beaten and sent out of India to places where it is now being beaten and replaced by Islam. There is, and was plenty of violence that Hindus do not like to admit Since apparently well read people do not seem to have heard the usual cliches that are spouted, let me point out how religions or groups of people claiming to support a religion have used a Goebbelsian propaganda tactic to usurp certain expressions to describe themselves while they commit the most horrendous acts of debauchery and violence on a gullible human population. Hindus of course have latched on to Tolerant as a byword. We have been discussing the limits of Hindu tolerance, such as exists in thie theradIslam has corneerd for itself f the word Peace and people go about describing Islam as a religion of peace whihc is rubbish. There is, and was plenty of violence that Muslims will not admit. And Christianity hseems to have grabbed for itself the words love and forviveness while the actions of Chritsiany from 1 minute after Christ died have been anything but love and/or forgiveness. There is, and was, plenty of violence that Christians will not admit. i am not sure how educated thinking people get fooled by buzzwords. Maybe that is why advertsing is such huge business. But the point I want to make is I will not allow anyone to escape being called a bullshitter if he tries to say that some action is justifiable because it is his (or someone else's) religion So friggin what if it is someone's religion? shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Monday 19 Apr 2010 10:56:54 pm Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote: Yippee, I'm moving up in the world. ams - with respect may I point out that it was you who first raised a strawman about lack of Hindu violence on this thread which you tried to knock down subsequently. I believe that what I am going to say is relevant to the topic of unregistening from Hinduism There is a tendency among some people who fear being identified as Hindu to utilise what I can only describe as pre-emptive secularism in order to distance themselves pre-emptively and prophylactically from any Hindu who might speak up in defence of Hinduism. Pre emptive secularism is a uniquely Hindu trait. It only comes out of people who are sensitive and defensive about being associated with Hindus while being afraid of being mistaken for one of them. Long before anyone even squeaked a word in support of anything Hindu in nature you found the need to put up a strawman and knock it down to make your views known publicly. This is IMO one way of unresgistering from Hinduism but I believe it fails because it betrays a deep sense of guilt that one may actually belong with Hindus and that one might be accused of being Hindu. And that called for a pre emptive volley to show that you are not one of them. You are pre-empting anyone who might say something in defence of Hindus wih a warning shot to tell them of what's coming. At a time and place where that was not even necessary.. The tactic is somewhat like the child who says I did not do it to his mother even before she realises that a window has been broken. In other words, a Freudian slip. shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:01 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: So friggin what if it is someone's religion? So you may not want to be associated with that person, their actions, or that religion. You may want to explicitly distance yourself from such an association, whether it be in their mind, the minds of other people, or the minds of the government. You do not want to be counted as a co-religionist, nor used as statistical propaganda. -- Charles
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
The tactic is somewhat like the child who says I did not do it to his mother even before she realises that a window has been broken. In other words, a Freudian slip. Amateur armchair psychology crap :-) Belated whiny post-empting is more what it seems like :-)
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Abhijit Menon-Sen a...@toroid.org wrote: At 2010-04-17 11:55:25 +0530, mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Some religions (though not Hinduism) have no place for those who do not believe; they are labelled pagan or heathen or unbelievers and can be persecuted and killed... Yeah. No persecution and killing of unbelievers when it comes to Hinduism. Nothing to see here, move right along. Um ... Gujarat '02, Delhi '84, Kandhamal '08? -- b
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sunday 18 Apr 2010 8:58:15 am Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote: At 2010-04-17 11:55:25 +0530, mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Some religions (though not Hinduism) have no place for those who do not believe; they are labelled pagan or heathen or unbelievers and can be persecuted and killed... Yeah. No persecution and killing of unbelievers when it comes to Hinduism. Nothing to see here, move right along. Wrong. Look again. Hindus are allowed to kill both believers and unbelievers. There is no stricture against killing anyone just because he belongs to a particular religion. As for kiling people who don't belong to a particular religion - ho hum, nothing new there everyone has been doing that. Move on move on. Live with it. shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On 18-04-2010 10:47, ss wrote: But if you live in India and you have no religion to pin yourself down upon, you are Hindu by default. Just another person with no fixed belief. Er, yes, this is the problem. Some of us don't want to be Hindu by default. -- Madhu Menon http://twitter.com/madmanweb
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 6:45 PM, ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Many times I have found it more worthwhile (and beneficial) to temporarily (as in, for that moment) adopt a religion - rather than to explicitly deny it completely. For one, it opens many doors if you are traveling, and at least in some countries lets you visit religious places where you would not normally be allowed. I agree it pays off sometimes to keep mum about your heretic views if only out of politeness. On the other hand you can also be sinned against under the assumption that you belong to a certain religion. Religion like the color of your skin, or race, or ethnicity is just another marker that society uses to peg you down as a known quantity. Shedding these labels isn't something society wants you to do, because then no one would know where you stand. Hinduism does this cunning judo style maneuver of overturning this rule by using the very same rule. If you can take on a label, but dilute it sufficiently to mean nothing and everything at the same time, then in essence you are an unquantifiable commodity. There's good reason to adopt a label, because it permits you to show the world where you stand, the less desirable alternative being that you let others draw their own conclusions about you. On the other hand, there's only a handful of labels and their meanings that everyone is familiar with, so for maximum success you should choose within them. For example, even if I codified my unique one-of-a-kind beliefs into a sub-system of say Hinduism, there's no guarantee that this will be comprehensible to other Hindus or non-Hindus. Ultimately these labels are merely a guarantee of alliances. There is no denying that humans are selfish - if only it were possible every man would seek to be the last remaining individual on earth; however this madness is held in check by the necessity for everyone to cohabit in human company. Every man, even the most worthless individual considers his life and by extension his belief more important than others. Therefore if it were possible, none of us would carry a label because it reminds us of our inability to live alone, yet, the reality is none of us can be without a label. These societal labels are like wearing a uniform in battle, you can risk going in without wearing one, but then chances are both sides will mow you down just in case. And that doesn't mean everyone who wears the uniform is convinced of the reason they are wearing it - even the most patriotic will permit a moment of self doubt when huddled in a fox hole with his head between his knees. Nor is there agreement on why any two people wear the same label, heck you can lock two Popes in a room and expect them to come to blows over some trivial detail or the other of Christianity. So, labels, yes, how does one get rid of an unlabel label like Hinduism? Or wear it, but control its meaning? Cheeni
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sunday 18 Apr 2010 6:22:52 pm Biju Chacko wrote: On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Abhijit Menon-Sen a...@toroid.org wrote: At 2010-04-17 11:55:25 +0530, mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Some religions (though not Hinduism) have no place for those who do not believe; they are labelled pagan or heathen or unbelievers and can be persecuted and killed... Yeah. No persecution and killing of unbelievers when it comes to Hinduism. Nothing to see here, move right along. Um ... Gujarat '02, Delhi '84, Kandhamal '08? -- b While on the subject, why leave out the Goa inquisition that improved the level of love and brotherhood in the area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 7:37 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: Hindus are allowed to kill both believers and unbelievers. Couldn't that be said about all religions? Muslims killing muslims in the Iran-Iraq war, Christians killing (in some theaters of war) christians in the WWI and WWII, etc? The reasons people kill each other varies. Some times it is land, some times it is resources and some times it is religion. To derive an axiom that religious killing does not happen or is not noteworthy seems unjustified to me. Thaths -- Marge, you being a cop makes you the man! Which makes me the woman... and I have no interest in that, besides wearing the occasional underwear, which as we discussed is strictly a comfort thing. -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
At 10:36 AM +0530 4/18/10, ss wrote: You can be the head of a donkey shit worshipping cult or religion and still be Hindu. But if you worship donkey shit and try being Muslim or Christian - you will have some trouble getting in and having your view accepted as legitimate. But as long as you can argue your case for donkey shit being an embodiment of the truth as envisaged by some Hindus, nobody can say you are not Hindu. You can worship Donkey shit and Shiva side by side if you like. This sounds not unlike being a Quaker, which I am. Quakerism is technically (and culturally) a branch of Christianity. It posited universalism from the start. Once you get on that train, you can't really deny the possibility that someone can experience divinity (or, as Friends like the say, the Light) in anything. There are branches of Islam that get to a similar place. Hinduism is a whole lot if not this and not that. It is nothing in particular. It is in short the ultimate and most degenerate and primeval form of paganism. It was the pagan traits of Hinduism (and similar cults and religions) that were sought to be removed by newer organized religions such as Chritianity and islam. A whole lot of traits that are described as bad and never to be followed in Christianity and Islam are followed cheerfully by people who call themselves Hindu, or are in turn called Hindu by others. You make Hinduism sound very attractive. The mythos is rich and varied and colorful and sexy as well. The problem with monotheistic religions is that they're *monotonous*. You're always running up against the edge of the tent, and then you're out in the desert with a pack of dogs on your heels. -- Heather Madrone (heat...@madrone.com) http://www.madrone.com http://www.sunsplinter.blogspot.com I'd love to change the world, but they won't give me access to the source code.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sunday 18 Apr 2010 8:22:11 pm Thaths wrote: On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 7:37 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: Hindus are allowed to kill both believers and unbelievers. Couldn't that be said about all religions? Muslims killing muslims in the Iran-Iraq war, Christians killing (in some theaters of war) christians in the WWI and WWII, etc? The reasons people kill each other varies. Some times it is land, some times it is resources and some times it is religion. To derive an axiom that religious killing does not happen or is not noteworthy seems unjustified to me. What religions dictate and what followers of religions do are two different things. The act of attributing a religious motivation to a societal event or societal situation is a political act. It seeks to highlight one religious motivation over another. For example social inequity and social discrimination was made official by Hindus though a millennia old process. The misnamed caste system was attributed to Hinduism as if it was some imperfeect religion imposing an imperfect social system. The perfect religions had eliminated this imperfect system bnecause their holy books said so. But a change of religion did not eliminate the caste system either among Christians or Muslims. Does that mean that a Hindu god of caste is more powerful than a Christian or Islamic god of equality? God is a strawman here. Claiming that my God allows this or does not allow that is pure bullshit. GIGO. Bringing religion in is a political act. The same holds true for people kiling people. How often do you read the assertion that Muslims do not kill Muslims? But that is rubbish. Muslims kill more Muslims in the name of Islam than Muslims being killed by non Muslims. Doesn't that mean that Allah is an utter failure? No. because Allah/God is a strawman here. It is a politically motivated act to deliberately claim that Muslims don't kill Muslims and highlight the killing of Muslims by non Muslims while ignoring the killing of Muslims by Muslims. Perhaps I have managed to explain my response to the following messages on Silk On Sunday 18 Apr 2010 6:22:52 pm Biju Chacko wrote: On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Abhijit Menon-Sen a...@toroid.org wrote: At 2010-04-17 11:55:25 +0530, mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Some religions (though not Hinduism) have no place for those who do not believe; they are labelled pagan or heathen or unbelievers and can be persecuted and killed... Yeah. No persecution and killing of unbelievers when it comes to Hinduism. Nothing to see here, move right along. Um ... Gujarat '02, Delhi '84, Kandhamal '08? shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Krish Ashok krishas...@gmail.com wrote: On 17-Apr-2010, at 8:22 AM, ss wrote: Why unregister? shiv Good point. I don't remember explicitly registering, and given the sheer diversity of practices and beliefs, not to mention the lack of a single organizing authority, why the need for an explicit unregister process? One might as well just stop believing and go about one's life, no? If however, the unregister question is related to the legal aspects of belonging to a religion (personal laws et al) then I don't have an answer. Well, it's interesting to me that the need to not belong to a specific group is often as imperative as the need to belong. How often do we hear people say, rather proudly, ...but I'm not like them! Some people obviously are not comfortable with an amorphous state of an unstated credo. Some religions (though not Hinduism) have no place for those who do not believe; they are labelled pagan or heathen or unbelievers and can be persecuted and killedthe closest one comes to this in Hinduism, is the term ajaata shatru, one who is the enemy of those not of one's caste. In fact, I am not sure if the 'jaata' referred to means caste at all. However...I feel that the registering of a person as a Hindu may not be a single discrete act, but a process...the priests at every ceremony in one's life, invoking the Hindu gods, and the many Hindu practices one almost automatically follow, throw up the network of Hinduism around one. So the registering is still quite thorough, and for men/boys of three castes, the Upanayanam or thread ceremony was certainly a specific initiation into Hinduism...theone who dons the sacred thread is now a born-again (dwija) Hindu. That's a pretty intense initiation rite to me. Mahesh Shantaram's sworn affividavit was a result of a confrontation (if I recollect right, with a school or college principal) that he had to take a specific stand on. Most of the rest of us just muddle along, each with our own version of Hinduism. I am still not sure what place there is in Hinduism for those who do not know whether to believe in a religion or not, and are content to live with that uncertainty.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Saturday 17 Apr 2010 11:55:25 am Deepa Mohan wrote: Well, it's interesting to me that the need to not belong to a specific group is often as imperative as the need to belong. How often do we hear people say, rather proudly, ...but I'm not like them! I hear that 165 million times, one for each Pakistani citizen speaking of Indians who may be bigoted Hindus, oppressed minorities, slaving untouchables or munafiq Muslims If you do not belong to group X and wish to belong to group Y, surely joining group Y should suffice. The need to keep saying I do not belong to group X or to have an Unregistration certificate seems to indicate some fear that group X will somehow come and swallow you up, or at least that you will stand accused of showing residual allegiance to group X unless you constantly repeat the refrain that you do not belong to group X and that you have officailly unregistered. Like Nixon's immortal words I am not liar - the need to unbelong to a category stems from a fear of being categorized and branded as belonging to an undesirable category. Do you go about stating explicitly I am not a liar. I am not a Christian. I am not gay. I am not violent. Have you ever found the need to unregister from groups of liars, Christians, gays or violent people? shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 11:51 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: Have you ever found the need to unregister from groups of liars, Christians, gays or violent people? Only when I've been wrongly identified as belonging to a group with which I do not wish to be associated - usually by some officiously bureaucratic government agency. I want to unregister from a racial identity, a gender classification, a marital status or a religion. My race is not white, asian, pacific islander, or mixed. My gender is not male or female. My marital status is not married, single, divorced, or widowed. My religion is not Christian, Hindu, in your enumeration of religions or other. My father's name is not relevant to who I am. I do not have a permanent address. ... and I am not a number! If the government insists on putting a label on me that I don't think belongs, it's important to take that label off lest it confuse other people or get misused. When the claim is made that India is 80% Hindu is that just people the government has labelled Hindu who have not bothered to unregister, or is that people who actually consider themselves Hindu? -- Charles
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 6:51 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: If you do not belong to group X and wish to belong to group Y, surely joining group Y should suffice. Suppose there is no particularly-organized Group Y? I do not believe in God seems like a very worthwhile unregistration to me. While I totally don't believe in any Hindu deities, I'm unprejudiced, I equally scoff at the plausibility of the existence of my own tribe's. -T
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 6:51 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: Like Nixon's immortal words I am not liar Clearly not *that* immortal. I believe it was I am not a crook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh163n1lJ4M Thaths -- Marge, you being a cop makes you the man! Which makes me the woman... and I have no interest in that, besides wearing the occasional underwear, which as we discussed is strictly a comfort thing. -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
At 2010-04-17 11:55:25 +0530, mohande...@gmail.com wrote: Some religions (though not Hinduism) have no place for those who do not believe; they are labelled pagan or heathen or unbelievers and can be persecuted and killed... Yeah. No persecution and killing of unbelievers when it comes to Hinduism. Nothing to see here, move right along. -- ams
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sunday 18 Apr 2010 7:43:10 am Charles Haynes wrote: Only when I've been wrongly identified as belonging to a group with which I do not wish to be associated - usually by some officiously bureaucratic government agency. That is exactly my point sir. The need to unregister arises under external pressure. The minute a person can be pressurized to behave or react in a some way, then a politician has a handle on that person. Hindus had no name, no identity of being Hindu until someone came along and first said these people are Hindu and later said Hindus behave in this outrageous fashion It was then that the I'm a jackass balloon went up over a whole lot of residents of India to start thinking Am I Hindu or not. Christians had a definition to describe themselves. Everyone else was not Christian and God had separate plans for them. Muslims had a definition to describe themselves and God had different plans for Muslims and non Muslims. Hindus had, and still have no such self definition. But they are learning that if you are not Muslim, and you are not Chritsian, and you are not Buddhist and not a member of any one of a number of religious orders then you could say you are Hindu if you like. You could deny being Hindu if you want. You can start a new religion that worships donkey shit if you want. After inventing this religion, if you call yourself Hindu there will still be no scriptural basis for rejecting the view that you are Hindu. You can be the head of a donkey shit worshipping cult or religion and still be Hindu. But if you worship donkey shit and try being Muslim or Christian - you will have some trouble getting in and having your view accepted as legitimate. But as long as you can argue your case for donkey shit being an embodiment of the truth as envisaged by some Hindus, nobody can say you are not Hindu. You can worship Donkey shit and Shiva side by side if you like. Other Hindus may detest you but hey there is no Hindu rule that Hindus must love other Hindus, as I believe there is for Christians and Muslims. The God or gods do not give a flying fuck whether you love Hindus or hate them. Hinduism is a whole lot if not this and not that. It is nothing in particular. It is in short the ultimate and most degenerate and primeval form of paganism. It was the pagan traits of Hinduism (and similar cults and religions) that were sought to be removed by newer organized religions such as Chritianity and islam. A whole lot of traits that are described as bad and never to be followed in Christianity and Islam are followed cheerfully by people who call themselves Hindu, or are in turn called Hindu by others. Some Hindus support that. Some don't. Some Hindus are facist. Some are not. Some Hindus are sex maniac necrophiles, some are celibate intellectuals. None of them are going to get thrown out of Hinduism. They are welcome to unregister, but most can't register with any other religion unless they conform to something dicated by someone else from some book. shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Sunday 18 Apr 2010 8:14:47 am Tim Bray wrote: If you do not belong to group X and wish to belong to group Y, surely joining group Y should suffice. Suppose there is no particularly-organized Group Y? I do not believe in God seems like a very worthwhile unregistration to me. While I totally don't believe in any Hindu deities, I'm unprejudiced, I equally scoff at the plausibility of the existence of my own tribe's. You can piss on Hindu deities and still remain Hindu. Hinduism is not a religion although the hallmarks of religion have been sought to be imposed on a mass of pagans whose only unifying religious feature is the freedom to worship any damn thing, without prejudicing anyone's right to reject God if that is what he wants to do. Rhetorically speaking, if you want to unregister from Hinduism, you have to ask why a person is Hindu in the first place. A person is Hindu only because he does not belong to any other organised religion. Such a person may have some other identifying name if he was in Borneo or Africa, In India the default name is Hindu. You can unregister from Hinduism by actively joining some other religious denimation and then say I am not Hindu because I am Christian/Muslim/whatever But if you live in India and you have no religion to pin yourself down upon, you are Hindu by default. Just another person with no fixed belief. Pagan. God has not found you. Yet. shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Thursday 08 Apr 2010 8:28:08 pm Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Apparently the catholic church has a form that you fill out, at least in Switzerland. Seeing how Hinduism has all the bases covered - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism how does one get rid of it? Cheeni Why unregister? shiv
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On 17-Apr-2010, at 8:22 AM, ss wrote: Why unregister? shiv Good point. I don't remember explicitly registering, and given the sheer diversity of practices and beliefs, not to mention the lack of a single organizing authority, why the need for an explicit unregister process? One might as well just stop believing and go about one's life, no? If however, the unregister question is related to the legal aspects of belonging to a religion (personal laws et al) then I don't have an answer.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com wrote: Mahesh Shantaram did that many years ago. Here it is: http://bbs.seacrow.com/cix/106/829 http://bbs.seacrow.com/cix/106/881 Thanks, I am sure that this is the most practical solution, even if I have to repeat some variant of it in every country I reside in. Many times I have found it more worthwhile (and beneficial) to temporarily (as in, for that moment) adopt a religion - rather than to explicitly deny it completely. For one, it opens many doors if you are traveling, and at least in some countries lets you visit religious places where you would not normally be allowed.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
Ah, but you're not born Catholic. You have to consciously choose it and be confirmed before you can celebrate sacrament. Hinduism has a lower bar to entry. My understanding is that pretty much everybody (even a future Catholic) is born Hindu. I'm sure you'll all let me know if I've been misinformed ;-). Danese On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the catholic church has a form that you fill out, at least in Switzerland. Seeing how Hinduism has all the bases covered - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism how does one get rid of it? Cheeni
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, but you're not born Catholic. You have to consciously choose it and be confirmed before you can celebrate sacrament. Hinduism has a lower bar to entry. My understanding is that pretty much everybody (even a future Catholic) is born Hindu. I'm sure you'll all let me know if I've been misinformed ;-). It's true that Hinduism lays claim who all who breathe this air, walk on this earth and live under the sky. Does this mean one is a Catholic and a Hindu at the same time? Or how about a Muslim and a Hindu? If not, then does that mean signing up to another religion unregisters one from Hinduism? If so, how does atheism fare? Besides there is no formal process (legally speaking) to be admitted as an atheist, and even then atheism is a valid form of Hinduism. I read this comic book once (many years ago) that portrayed Buddha and Jesus Christ as avatars of Vishnu. Cheeni
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the catholic church has a form that you fill out, at least in Switzerland. Seeing how Hinduism has all the bases covered - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism how does one get rid of it? You can, apparently, go to a court and get an affidavit stating that you have no religion. The same or, a variant of it was once narrated to me by Ramakrishna. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog/
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: Besides there is no formal process (legally speaking) to be admitted as an atheist I'm glad he hasn't found out about the SECRET HANDSHAKE. -T
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:46 PM, sankarshan sankarshan.mukhopadh...@gmail.com wrote: You can, apparently, go to a court and get an affidavit stating that you have no religion. The same or, a variant of it was once narrated to me by Ramakrishna. Mahesh Shantaram did that many years ago. Here it is: http://bbs.seacrow.com/cix/106/829 http://bbs.seacrow.com/cix/106/881 (Login/password: archives/archives)
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
Tim Bray wrote, [on 4/9/2010 12:49 PM]: Besides there is no formal process (legally speaking) to be admitted as an atheist I'm glad he hasn't found out about the SECRET HANDSHAKE. Tim, you realise you're going to have to explain this breach of confidentiality at the next monthly cabal meeting, yes? Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com wrote: Mahesh Shantaram did that many years ago. Here it is: http://bbs.seacrow.com/cix/106/829 http://bbs.seacrow.com/cix/106/881 Thanks, I am sure that this is the most practical solution, even if I have to repeat some variant of it in every country I reside in. OTOH, the larger philosophical question still remains - how does one relinquish Hinduism when by its definition it is impossible :-)
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Friday 09 April 2010 01:14 PM, Udhay Shankar N wrote: I'm glad he hasn't found out about the SECRET HANDSHAKE. Tim, you realise you're going to have to explain this breach of confidentiality at the next monthly cabal meeting, yes? Tsk.. Tsk... Rule 1: Breach confidentiality at the risk of the left pinkie. Rule 2: Reveal your / others' membership status at the risk of your right pinkie. Forgot so soon? Oops, think I lost my right one too. :-)
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com wrote: Mahesh Shantaram did that many years ago. Here it is: http://bbs.seacrow.com/cix/106/829 http://bbs.seacrow.com/cix/106/881 Thanks, I am sure that this is the most practical solution, even if I have to repeat some variant of it in every country I reside in. Yes, Mahesh Shantaram did that many years ago, it costed him Rs 25/- . But it also got me curious, If one does not have a religion, does it automatically qualify him for a religious minority or any minority status in India. regards -- Ramakrishna Reddy GPG Key ID:31FF0090 Fingerprint = 18D7 3FC1 784B B57F C08F 32B9 4496 B2A1 31FF 0090
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: OTOH, the larger philosophical question still remains - how does one relinquish Hinduism when by its definition it is impossible :-) Constitutionally speaking, shouldn't you NOT have to relinquish anything you didn't accept of your own free will? Except citizenship by birth, of course. I could always make up my own religion that is defined as consisting of anyone born in the geography of India. Why would you be obliged to release yourself from that?
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Ramakrishna Reddy ramkr...@gmail.comwrote: Yes, Mahesh Shantaram did that many years ago, it costed him Rs 25/- . But it also got me curious, If one does not have a religion, does it automatically qualify him for a religious minority or any minority status in India. Ironically, Mahesh and Vidya had a Hindu wedding. IANAL, but I suppose minorities have to be specifically identified in law or you'd have a number of smaller castes trying to exit the Hindu umbrella. If the Gujjars can agitate to be recognised as a backward caste for the benefits, so can anyone else. Kiran
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
I could always make up my own religion that is defined as consisting of anyone born in the geography of India. Why would you be obliged to release yourself from that? Precisely the question that's been bothering me as well. Why do you feel obliged to release yourself from it? And what would you get by releasing yourself from it? To live in society, you would still need to carry the baggage that comes with that identity regardless of what the government considers you as. No? Kiran
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: It's true that Hinduism lays claim who all who breathe this air, walk on this earth and live under the sky. Apparently some Hindus are more equal than others. Balinese Hindus, for example, don't find it easy to visit Puri's Juggenaught temple. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1071108/asp/nation/story_8524891.asp http://news.iskcon.org/node/692 Thaths -- Marge, you being a cop makes you the man! Which makes me the woman... and I have no interest in that, besides wearing the occasional underwear, which as we discussed is strictly a comfort thing. -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: It's true that Hinduism lays claim who all who breathe this air, walk on this earth and live under the sky. Apparently some Hindus are more equal than others. Balinese Hindus, for example, don't find it easy to visit Puri's Juggenaught temple. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1071108/asp/nation/story_8524891.asp http://news.iskcon.org/node/692 Haven't read the story yet, but if anyone is calling the deity the Juggenaught instead of the spelling that's been accepted for 60 years now ...Jagannath (Lord of the World), their efforts also will come to naught :) OK, OK...I agree that's spelling Nazism, but I still bristle when I hear...and then read the British mauling of Indian place names like Mejura (Madurai) Seringapetam (Srirangapatna) and Serampore (Srirampur). Oh wellI've drifted the thread nicely, though, let it float upon the etymological waters. Deepa.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: It's true that Hinduism lays claim who all who breathe this air, walk on this earth and live under the sky. The first time my son-in-law visited India (er, as someone said at the engagement, he's an American American!) , at certain south Indian temples he was told that if he wore a sindoor tilak he would be allowed inside, and he had no problem with this. At others, he was told would be allowed in if he paid Rs. 350 or so..there, he chose to sit outside and wait for us. Rs.350 seems to be very cheap to embrace Hinduism, he remarked later.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
OK, OK...I agree that's spelling Nazism, but I still bristle when I hear...and then read the British mauling of Indian place names like Mejura (Madurai) Seringapetam (Srirangapatna) and Serampore (Srirampur). Oh well Come, come. Even the construct Deepa Mohan as a name is about as Western as they come. Hard to draw the line at what degree of occidentification is ok and what's not :-) Mahesh
[silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
Apparently the catholic church has a form that you fill out, at least in Switzerland. Seeing how Hinduism has all the bases covered - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism how does one get rid of it? Cheeni
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the catholic church has a form that you fill out, at least in Switzerland. Seeing how Hinduism has all the bases covered - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism how does one get rid of it? Would be interesting to know how and why the Charvaka and the Aajeevika religions/philosophies died out. What causes some philosophies to take root and thrive, and others to wither away? Is it something about what humans experience (well, call it the collective memory)? Or is it just that these philosophies were not right for the time they were propounded in? Is there room for the agnostic in Hinduism? Well..there is...because I am one...but I couldn't find any references on the Net. Deepa.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
i don't think the answer to why Charuvakas died has been found yet. Their existence is only known because Shankaracharya took great pains to demolish their arguments. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.comwrote: Apparently the catholic church has a form that you fill out, at least in Switzerland. Seeing how Hinduism has all the bases covered - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism how does one get rid of it? Would be interesting to know how and why the Charvaka and the Aajeevika religions/philosophies died out. What causes some philosophies to take root and thrive, and others to wither away? Is it something about what humans experience (well, call it the collective memory)? Or is it just that these philosophies were not right for the time they were propounded in? Is there room for the agnostic in Hinduism? Well..there is...because I am one...but I couldn't find any references on the Net. Deepa.
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Radhika, Y. radhik...@gmail.com wrote: i don't think the answer to why Charuvakas died has been found yet. Their existence is only known because Shankaracharya took great pains to demolish their arguments. ITYM Adi Shankara. Shankaracharya is a title. Let us not discount cases where the sword was mightier than the pen (or, rather, the pen was assisted by the sword). There was active state-sponsored persecution of opposing faiths/philosophies through most parts of India back in the day. Thaths -- Marge, you being a cop makes you the man! Which makes me the woman... and I have no interest in that, besides wearing the occasional underwear, which as we discussed is strictly a comfort thing. -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
of course. state sponsored religion and state sponsored persecution both had roles - where would Buddhism be without Ashoka's imperial control? On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Radhika, Y. radhik...@gmail.com wrote: i don't think the answer to why Charuvakas died has been found yet. Their existence is only known because Shankaracharya took great pains to demolish their arguments. ITYM Adi Shankara. Shankaracharya is a title. Let us not discount cases where the sword was mightier than the pen (or, rather, the pen was assisted by the sword). There was active state-sponsored persecution of opposing faiths/philosophies through most parts of India back in the day. Thaths -- Marge, you being a cop makes you the man! Which makes me the woman... and I have no interest in that, besides wearing the occasional underwear, which as we discussed is strictly a comfort thing. -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] How does one unregister from Hinduism?
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Radhika, Y. radhik...@gmail.com wrote: of course. state sponsored religion and state sponsored persecution both had roles - where would Buddhism be without Ashoka's imperial control? I agree. In the case of Buddhism, state sponsorship propagated the religion far and wide (Maurya) as well as dramatically reduced its practice in the land of it's birth (Sunga). Thaths -- Marge, you being a cop makes you the man! Which makes me the woman... and I have no interest in that, besides wearing the occasional underwear, which as we discussed is strictly a comfort thing. -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
