Re: CSLyme update
Dave, what kind of Wobenzyme you took and how much? I found several different on the market. I like to try it. Guenter Dave Darrin schrieb: For Rod and others interested: I think it is time I gave an update on my Lyme curing adventure. It's been over a year since I started the Wobenzyme and CDS treatment and I haven't had any indication of Lyme remaining . It's taking a long time to repair the damage that all these years with Lyme have caused but the difference is like night to day over the past year. If you haven't tried it yet I sincerely hope you do. Dave -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSLyme update
Da Darrin schrieb: I didn't know there was more than one. Wobenzyme is a brand name. Check eBay. thats where I bought mine. A bottle of 800 did the trick. I took 12 pills at a time. Dave On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:17 AM, Guenter Poelz guenter.po...@gmx.de mailto:guenter.po...@gmx.de wrote: Thank you Dave, I will look at ebay. Here in Europe one sells W.. N, Plus, P, etc, and they are all different. Günter Dave, what kind of Wobenzyme you took and how much? I found several different on the market. I like to try it. Guenter Dave Darrin schrieb: For Rod and others interested: I think it is time I gave an update on my Lyme curing adventure. It's been over a year since I started the Wobenzyme and CDS treatment and I haven't had any indication of Lyme remaining . It's taking a long time to repair the damage that all these years with Lyme have caused but the difference is like night to day over the past year. If you haven't tried it yet I sincerely hope you do. Dave --__--__ -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-request@__eskimo.com mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=__unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/__silver-list@eskimo.com/__maillist.html http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-list@__eskimo.com mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSstorage question
Marshall Dudley schrieb: gallon to use to soak my horse's feet? Should I throw away the half gallon I have stored in plastic for the last month? TIA, Teresa I have stored CS in hd polyethylene for months and in some cases years with no dicernable effect. All plastics are not the same, which plastic have you experienced this problem with? Marshall I think it depends on the kind of EIS you make: metallic/ionic. I make it with the HVAC method. Some time ago I used very good distilled water such that the electrodes pull up a water cone at the beginning. The glass beaker in which I brew the CS became slowly a metallic deposit over the months. Also an old CocaCola bottle became slowly metallic black. Now my distilled water is worse. The cones are negligible. I generate thus almost only ionic silver. The beakers and the bottles stay clear for glass and plastic as well. I think an ionic silver solution is not very sensitive. Guenter -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSstorage question
Guenter Poelz schrieb: Marshall Dudley schrieb: gallon to use to soak my horse's feet? Should I throw away the half gallon I have stored in plastic for the last month? TIA, Teresa I have stored CS in hd polyethylene for months and in some cases years with no dicernable effect. All plastics are not the same, which plastic have you experienced this problem with? Marshall I think it depends on the kind of EIS you make: metallic/ionic. I make it with the HVAC method. Some time ago I used very good distilled water such that the electrodes pull up a water cone at the beginning. The glass beaker in which I brew the CS became slowly a metallic deposit over the months. Also an old CocaCola bottle became slowly metallic black. oh, I forgot: the bottle was a plastic one. -- Guenter Now my distilled water is worse. The cones are negligible. I generate thus almost only ionic silver. The beakers and the bottles stay clear for glass and plastic as well. I think an ionic silver solution is not very sensitive. Guenter -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSwhere to buy dmso in Germany
Several years ago I bought it(Dimethylsulfoxid) from www.omikron-online.de Guenter Golden Aldi schrieb: My problem is, that I can't get it everywhere, and its pretty expensive to top. Germany doesn't even sell Epsom Salts! Only in little amounts, and food grade... and its not cheap for 50 gr. Its tedious to find things like these over here. I could get them probably in 60 lbs sacks back home, but not here. First step is always finding the stuff... then weeding out what you can't afford, or in the case of the epsom salts, find the right use. Aldi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRSD(tissue and nerve regeneration)
Marshall Dudley schrieb: Silver ions have been proven to cause cells to revert back to stem cells, then redifferentiate to the correct cells needed when they are injured. That DOES include the nerve cells going into the injured area. See Robert Becker's book, The Electric Body for more information. Marshall This sounds good. But what happens if the nerve cells are not injured but just dying? Guenter Lisa Shepherd wrote: I read somewhere that silver is prone to cause some tissues to regenerate. Is this true? Does it have an effect on nerves? */Pat pattycake29...@yahoo.com/* wrote: This info was sent by my daughter: For RSD (Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy/ Complex Regional Pain Syndrome), I think it depends on what the current definition of RSD is as to if any viral cause can/will be found. In the past, they've allowed an RSD diagnosis with or without a trauma injury. Revised criteria has suggested if there is no injury, it's not RSD. That being said, there have been a whole lot of people being diagnosed with RSD after more common viral things like Fifth's Disease (parvovirus). Because a whole lot of viral infections are never diagnosed and just shrugged off as being overworked or tired, a whole lot of the cases eventually being diagnosed as RSD with no known cause may in fact be viral in origin. At any rate, real physical damage to the nerve has been noted in all forms of RSD. It certainly wouldn't hurt to take colloidal silver to perhaps attempt to keep it from spreading if there was any chance of a viral involvement, but unless it was able to trigger the nerves to heal themselves, I don't think it would do much to help. Pat Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE4MGw4Z2hlBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW5jZW50ZXI- at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
Re: CSAnother theory of how zapper works
Marshall, according to my information, hydrogen and oxygen are generated in electrolysis at the surface of conductors (e.g. metal electrodes). To enter the body they have somehow to be injected. Guenter Marshall Dudley schrieb: I have been exploring a number of patents on using a 30 or so khz unipolar pulses to split water into hydrogen and oxygen (essentially a zapper). This technique is reported to cause the spitting of the water between the electrodes, instead of at the electrodes like normal electrolysis, and bubbles of hydrogen, and oxygen bubble up from the water between the electrodes at very high efficiency (reported to be over 100% but lets not get into that). Now, if this is true, when the water splits, initially H2 and monatomic oxygen are produced. Monatomic oxygen will quickly attempt to react with something, and will end up as either O2 or H2O2. The result is going to be oxygen and hydrogen peroxide being generated in many places where it normally would not be, I.E. inside of pathogens. And of course we all know that H2O2 kills pathogens as well. I have ordered an old air variable tuner and am going to do some experiments along this vein. Perhaps zapping have more than one way it works. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSReverse voltage, was: Answer to Catherine, warning to Mike Monett...
Hello, because the discussion on reverse voltage with batteries is going on, I will contribute with drawings. Most of the problems which arose here are because its so difficult to explain such things with words only. There is no new argument here, only drawings. - diagram with old battery (B), lamp (L) current (i). Each battery (also each generator) has an inner resistance (R) to the current. In new batteries R might be negligible. R is drawn separated from the battery cells. The current generates a voltage drop across the resistance. Thus in my special layout, the initial 9 Volts drop to an effective battery voltage of 5 Volt. - The 2nd diagram consists of 2 new batteries (R of these is about zero) and an old one (with appreciable inner resistance) in series. You easily see, if R is high enough and the current is high enough, the voltage drop UR could be higher then the cell voltage of 9 Volt in this battery. The total voltage of this battery is reversed. The battery will be charged. Hope this helps, Günter Marshall Dudley wrote: snip ... David Bearrow wrote: snip ... etc. inline: circuit1.jpg
Re: CS Distilled water
Hi Larry, here in Germany, I never saw distilled, or de-ionized water labeled like that (which doesn't mean that it couldn't exist). Might be, very cheap brands made with dirty apparatus for use only in steam irons could be labeled like that (as one is warned in trains not to drink their tap water). Water made by reverse osmosis is not offered in the shops I visit. Normally the mentioned warning labels should only be used with really poisonous stuff. Guenter larry tankersley schrieb: Dear list... does anyone know if this is true. Did you know that every bottle of reverse osmosis, distilled, or de-ionized water sold in Europe contains a skull and crossbones on the label? Do you know that the European label states that these waters are only to be used for steam irons and batteries, and not to be given to pets? If Europeans won't drink these waters or feed them to their pets, then do you really think it's okay for you to drink them? .. The statement comes from a site that is selling water treatment Gizze's. I've posted two folks I know,one in Prague and one in Germany and ask them to see if this is true there. If you know someone in Europe you could ask, or are in Europe and could post back to the list, I would be most interested to hear from you. Thanks larry tankersley; Gainesville,Florida USA -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSAnswer how to calculate ppm of CS at home
hello herx, your method sounds convincing. But what is with the silver ions which are travelling to the cathode, discharged, and deposited there? Guenter herx wrote: Hello list, long time listener, first time caller. I've read many posts here regarding calculating ppm of CS. I can help you figure out the ppm of the CS you're brewing at home, or help you determine how long you need to brew in order to get any desired ppm. snip 2. Know the amount of current flowing through your electrodes. You'll need to have a multimeter with a scale that reads current in increments of one milliamp or less. 3. Know the amount of time (in minutes) your current flows. 4. Know the volume of distilled water your electrodes are immersed in. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe:HVAC-LVDC
Hi, Stephen, thank you for your reply. Only a few comments still: Stephen Quinto schrieb: Hi, Guenther, First, these micrographs were taken at 100,000x for comparative purposes. But we have pics also at 480,000x (the limit of our machine). There is also an optical scope with 8x objective lenses that further magnifies the image on the plate, so theoretically we can see 3,840,000x. But resolution is super difficult since the additional range is an image of an image (like a copy of a copy). However The resolution of a microscope is limited, roughly spoken, by the wavelength of the light. (xmin=1.22xlambda/(nxsin(alpha/2); with xmin=minimal distance, lambda=wavelength, n=refractive index between object and lens, alpha=opening angle of the light cone between object and lens). For an optical microscope this is say 500nm. Magnification by a factor of 1000 expand 500 nm objects to 0.5mm. Even if you magnify further you can't reveal details of this image. They are not present. You're right, the samples are dried first, ie. the water is evaporated because the vacuum in the scope must be at least atmosphere x 10 to the -6. The solution of this problem is probably the TEM with frozen objects, which was mentioned by James Osbourne, Holmes in this thread. I am not an expert on that. snip ... Guenter -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV
Yes, James, I have to be more specific. I hope, I have well understood your questions. Strong and weak forces are dealing with nuclear physics. The energies involved are about a million times higher than in our cases. The time scales are correspondingly short. When we look at isolated atoms in our long time scales at atomic energies, all structures are smeared out. They look spherical. But an outer electric or magnetic field (artificial fields or field from neighbored atoms), strong enough to overcome the thermal energy, may align atoms. They show now that the outer electrons run in specific orbits (classically spoken). The orbits are often shown in literature in sketches of the charge densities (The charge density on the orbit is high, outside it is zero). Some atoms show e.g. pear shaped densities, symmetric to the center. This means that the orbit is inside this double pear. You see this can not cause a dipole because of its symmetry. But it indicates in what direction a dipole can preferentially be induced. Because the 2 outer orbits in oxygen are inclined by an angle, the atoms in water molecules are not in one line H-O-H but form a V. I hope that I have now carefully enough described this picture, Günter James Osbourne, Holmes schrieb: Thanks Guenter! It still leaves some questions, but definitely sounds like a good start. Atoms are not always spherical. Many years back I read a Scientific American on monatomic atoms. Because of the interaction of the weak and strong forces, some of them turn into bowling pin shapes. James Osbourne Holmes a...@trail.com -Original Message- From: Guenter Poelz [SMTP:po...@mail.desy.de] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 12:00 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV Hello James, many thanks for your interest James Osbourne, Holmes schrieb: Hi Guenter, Thanks for your continuing comments. Here are my opininions: Is the O2 the dipole? Or the Silver?. O2 is symmetric. Two oxygen atoms are symmetrically bound to a molecule with nobel gas like ends. The bond is strong. This can not be a dipole by itself because it is not left-right asymmetric. (Because it is not a sphere, it has higher asymmetries. It forms a quadrupole like - + + - but this is not of interest here.) All atoms are spherical. Thus they are not intrinsic dipoles. Many molecules also don't form dipoles. But if they are inserted into an outer electric field, they are polarised: outer elctrons are pulled toward the anode and the body is pulled toward the cathode. This is an induced dipole, induced by the outer electric field. The induced dipole moment (the strength of the dipole) of O2 will be weak because the electrons are strongly bound. But metals give strong induced dipoles, because the outer electrons are very weakly attached. How does the separate rotation of the ions translate into a rotation of the bulk around the arc bars? I don't see any electric or magnetic effect which could lead to a circular movement. But often such things occur because your setup is not totally symmetric (the same with the waterflow in your bath tub). E.g. the suspended electrode is slightly bent or the obstacles in the water are not left-right symmetric. If it reverses each cycle, what is the force which is unbalanced enough to hold the cone up? You apply maximum and zero energy to the water during half a cycle. In the next cycle again in the same direction etc.. You will have in average (over time) a mean positive (upward) energy applied. This is the mean gravitational energy the water gains. Depending on the resonant properties of the water cone, it will oscillate between a maximum and a minimum value. The average must be positive. That's how I see it, Gunter James Osbourne Holmes a...@trail.com -Original Message- From: Guenter Poelz [SMTP:po...@mail.desy.de] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 12:17 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV James, the global effect is independent from polarity. When the wire is positively charged, the negative end of the dipole is attracted and will be directed closer to the wire, the positive is repulsed, is further away. During the negative cycle of the wire, the whole thing is reversed. During both polarities of the wire the dipoles are attracted (because of the different distances of the dipole charges to the wire), but the dipoles change permanently their directions. Because attraction and repulsion both take place simultaneously, the force on a dipole in an unhomogeneous field is weaker as on a singular charge (e.g. an ion). you see, the dipole is permanently oscillating or rotating in an alternating electrical field. If there is also a magnetic field, as it is around an electric current, there are also forces transverse to that field, which makes
Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV
Hello James, many thanks for your interest James Osbourne, Holmes schrieb: Hi Guenter, Thanks for your continuing comments. Here are my opininions: Is the O2 the dipole? Or the Silver?. O2 is symmetric. Two oxygen atoms are symmetrically bound to a molecule with nobel gas like ends. The bond is strong. This can not be a dipole by itself because it is not left-right asymmetric. (Because it is not a sphere, it has higher asymmetries. It forms a quadrupole like - + + - but this is not of interest here.) All atoms are spherical. Thus they are not intrinsic dipoles. Many molecules also don't form dipoles. But if they are inserted into an outer electric field, they are polarised: outer elctrons are pulled toward the anode and the body is pulled toward the cathode. This is an induced dipole, induced by the outer electric field. The induced dipole moment (the strength of the dipole) of O2 will be weak because the electrons are strongly bound. But metals give strong induced dipoles, because the outer electrons are very weakly attached. How does the separate rotation of the ions translate into a rotation of the bulk around the arc bars? I don't see any electric or magnetic effect which could lead to a circular movement. But often such things occur because your setup is not totally symmetric (the same with the waterflow in your bath tub). E.g. the suspended electrode is slightly bent or the obstacles in the water are not left-right symmetric. If it reverses each cycle, what is the force which is unbalanced enough to hold the cone up? You apply maximum and zero energy to the water during half a cycle. In the next cycle again in the same direction etc.. You will have in average (over time) a mean positive (upward) energy applied. This is the mean gravitational energy the water gains. Depending on the resonant properties of the water cone, it will oscillate between a maximum and a minimum value. The average must be positive. That's how I see it, Günter James Osbourne Holmes a...@trail.com -Original Message- From: Guenter Poelz [SMTP:po...@mail.desy.de] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 12:17 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV James, the global effect is independent from polarity. When the wire is positively charged, the negative end of the dipole is attracted and will be directed closer to the wire, the positive is repulsed, is further away. During the negative cycle of the wire, the whole thing is reversed. During both polarities of the wire the dipoles are attracted (because of the different distances of the dipole charges to the wire), but the dipoles change permanently their directions. Because attraction and repulsion both take place simultaneously, the force on a dipole in an unhomogeneous field is weaker as on a singular charge (e.g. an ion). you see, the dipole is permanently oscillating or rotating in an alternating electrical field. If there is also a magnetic field, as it is around an electric current, there are also forces transverse to that field, which makes the movement more complicated. I hope you can agree, Gunter James Osbourne, Holmes schrieb: snip.. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV
thanks Ivan that you mention that, the effect in mind you have is due to the friction in water. It's improbable that they come back to the wire even if they are not neutralized. If you would not have any friction than you could make a movie and play it back and forth, it would always comply with physics laws (including inertia). Without friction, if you reverse the movie it looks like you just reversed the voltage. There is also scattering on the watermolecules which introduces a new complication. It's wonderful that this discussion goes on. I have already learned a lot. Günter Ivan Anderson schrieb: Another thing Guenter, As the AC wave form is sinusoidal, when the voltage passes through zero to the opposite sign, the attractive force is low but the particles having some inertia, drift further from the electrode. This and the fact that the solution acts to slow the propagation of the energy front (the electrical or electrostatic propagation relies on the movement of ions and lags and is slower than the input from the electrode) would also help to ensure the escape of the majority of the particles. Those particles that do find themselves reduced at the electrode may well be the first to be oxidised at the next change of phase. The reactions at the electrode are very complex and not as straight forward as I had previously thought, involving electrode polarisation, overpotential and so on... understanding the bulk solution chemistry is far more intuitive, I have found. There is no doubt that HVAC silver sols are ionic, in that the particles carry a charge, as can be easily attested by a conductivity reading. Regards - Ivan. - Original Message - From: Guenter Poelz po...@mail.desy.de To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 1999 06:26 Subject: Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV Hello Fred and James and the others, one should not forget that in water one has always also OH- and H+ ions (and with changing concentrations during the process) . Assume an Ag+ has been released from the anode, it may combine for a while with a OH- forming AgOH and being neutral then. It will not be attracted back to the electrode in the negative cycle. (Not totally true, see below). Another Ag+ -Ion or a AgOH-molecule, or both can bind to it and thus may form a larger cluster which is less mobile and will therefore also not reach the electrode in the negative cycle. In addition, water dipoles will be attracted by the charged particle and surrounds it by a water skin (Ivan often has emphasized this). The particle stays positively charged, but its mobility is further reduced. Now to the movement of neutral particles: If these particles are dipoles (positively charged at one end and negatively at the other) they may be attracted by unhomogeneous (e.g. cone shaped) electrical fields. This is the same mechanism which happens at HV when the water molecules are attracted to the wire, suspended above the water level. Does this help? Günter Fred schrieb: James, I wish I could afford the time to delve into the physics end of this but we are branching out into so many areas here that it would take years to study/relearn the mechanics of crystal formation, molecular energy interactions, etc. Keep at it if you can, but I must rely on good old engineering logic and observations, to form most of my technical opinions. Here are some more: My statement of ...no affinity to travel, yet is moved by the electrostatic forces, is my opinion that in a fluid the forces may be more on the bulk mass then on descrete atoms. This is from my observations when we made oil filled HV transformers with poor corona design! The insulating oil appeared to be boiling, between a sharp HV point and a lower voltage surface yet it was rare to see a descrete particle (of the ever present fiber lint) moving alone. Your question of Is it the loss of an electron? (YES!) If so, and it picks up the missing electron, and becomes metallic silver, and neutral, what forces keep the clumps/atoms apart? Got me, but look at the ion cloud from a DC setup and note the extremely low mobility of charged particles, which should be both pushing apart and also rushing to the other electrode. It would appear that the forces involved are weak compared to the energy required to travel thru the fluid medium. It is also possible that the water, which is claimed to form rings of 6 molecules, has its own forces to contend with! Those rings or water crystals are claimed to contribute to its classification as the universal solvent, having the ability to entrap and separate the solute. How about all the empowered water tales - left/right spin, magnetized? Is there a source for HVAC systems you trust? I have a request to build a water purification system, including
Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV
James, the global effect is independent from polarity. When the wire is positively charged, the negative end of the dipole is attracted and will be directed closer to the wire, the positive is repulsed, is further away. During the negative cycle of the wire, the whole thing is reversed. During both polarities of the wire the dipoles are attracted (because of the different distances of the dipole charges to the wire), but the dipoles change permanently their directions. Because attraction and repulsion both take place simultaneously, the force on a dipole in an unhomogeneous field is weaker as on a singular charge (e.g. an ion). you see, the dipole is permanently oscillating or rotating in an alternating electrical field. If there is also a magnetic field, as it is around an electric current, there are also forces transverse to that field, which makes the movement more complicated. I hope you can agree, Günter James Osbourne, Holmes schrieb: Thanks Guenter, Why does the cone rise with the alternating current? What vectors make it spin? James Osbourne Holmes a...@trail.com -Original Message- From: Guenter Poelz [SMTP:po...@mail.desy.de] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 10:27 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV Hello Fred and James and the others, one should not forget that in water one has always also OH- and H+ ions (and with changing concentrations during the process) . Assume an Ag+ has been released from the anode, it may combine for a while with a OH- forming AgOH and being neutral then. It will not be attracted back to the electrode in the negative cycle. (Not totally true, see below). Another Ag+ -Ion or a AgOH-molecule, or both can bind to it and thus may form a larger cluster which is less mobile and will therefore also not reach the electrode in the negative cycle. In addition, water dipoles will be attracted by the charged particle and surrounds it by a water skin (Ivan often has emphasized this). The particle stays positively charged, but its mobility is further reduced. Now to the movement of neutral particles: If these particles are dipoles (positively charged at one end and negatively at the other) they may be attracted by unhomogeneous (e.g. cone shaped) electrical fields. This is the same mechanism which happens at HV when the water molecules are attracted to the wire, suspended above the water level. Does this help? Gunter Fred schrieb: James, snip. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV
thanks Fred for your response. unfortunately I don't know anything about ZETA potentials. I think I have read something on this list in the past. There must be experts around. Hope you find one, Günter Fred schrieb: Thanks Gunther, for the in depth explaination of possible particle charges, you are certainly right in the probable effects to the ion, and it helps explain some of the anomolies in HVAC applications. I will digest that, as I am about to embark on developmental work for a HVAC based system for two different industrial processes. I must admit, seeing stability exceeding a year, with the true ionic colloid I believe I am making, gives me a warm fuzzy feeling, when I visualize silver ions (lumps, clumps) pushing each other apart. I asked before, but it may have been missed - Have you seen any data on ZETA Potential? I was challanged by someone about the Zeta charge on my particles and all I could find was a site selling the equipment - without any reference data! He suggested the Zeta should be 60mv and 'most Universities had the test equipment'! Check them out at: http://www.bic.com Your feedback would be appreciated! f...@health2us.com Hello Fred and James and the others, one should not forget that in water one has always also OH- and H+ ions (and with changing concentrations during the process) . Assume an Ag+ has been released from the anode, it may combine for a while with a OH- forming AgOH and being neutral then. It will not be attracted back to the electrode in the negative cycle. (Not totally true, see below). Another Ag+ -Ion or a AgOH-molecule, or both can bind to it and thus may form a larger cluster which is less mobile and will therefore also not reach the electrode in the negative cycle. In addition, water dipoles will be attracted by the charged particle and surrounds it by a water skin (Ivan often has emphasized this). The particle stays positively charged, but its mobility is further reduced. Now to the movement of neutral particles: If these particles are dipoles (positively charged at one end and negatively at the other) they may be attracted by unhomogeneous (e.g. cone shaped) electrical fields. This is the same mechanism which happens at HV when the water molecules are attracted to the wire, suspended above the water level. Does this help? Günter -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRE:Particle size -LV and HV
Hello Fred and James and the others, one should not forget that in water one has always also OH- and H+ ions (and with changing concentrations during the process) . Assume an Ag+ has been released from the anode, it may combine for a while with a OH- forming AgOH and being neutral then. It will not be attracted back to the electrode in the negative cycle. (Not totally true, see below). Another Ag+ -Ion or a AgOH-molecule, or both can bind to it and thus may form a larger cluster which is less mobile and will therefore also not reach the electrode in the negative cycle. In addition, water dipoles will be attracted by the charged particle and surrounds it by a water skin (Ivan often has emphasized this). The particle stays positively charged, but its mobility is further reduced. Now to the movement of neutral particles: If these particles are dipoles (positively charged at one end and negatively at the other) they may be attracted by unhomogeneous (e.g. cone shaped) electrical fields. This is the same mechanism which happens at HV when the water molecules are attracted to the wire, suspended above the water level. Does this help? Günter Fred schrieb: James, I wish I could afford the time to delve into the physics end of this but we are branching out into so many areas here that it would take years to study/relearn the mechanics of crystal formation, molecular energy interactions, etc. Keep at it if you can, but I must rely on good old engineering logic and observations, to form most of my technical opinions. Here are some more: My statement of ...no affinity to travel, yet is moved by the electrostatic forces, is my opinion that in a fluid the forces may be more on the bulk mass then on descrete atoms. This is from my observations when we made oil filled HV transformers with poor corona design! The insulating oil appeared to be boiling, between a sharp HV point and a lower voltage surface yet it was rare to see a descrete particle (of the ever present fiber lint) moving alone. Your question of Is it the loss of an electron? (YES!) If so, and it picks up the missing electron, and becomes metallic silver, and neutral, what forces keep the clumps/atoms apart? Got me, but look at the ion cloud from a DC setup and note the extremely low mobility of charged particles, which should be both pushing apart and also rushing to the other electrode. It would appear that the forces involved are weak compared to the energy required to travel thru the fluid medium. It is also possible that the water, which is claimed to form rings of 6 molecules, has its own forces to contend with! Those rings or water crystals are claimed to contribute to its classification as the universal solvent, having the ability to entrap and separate the solute. How about all the empowered water tales - left/right spin, magnetized? Is there a source for HVAC systems you trust? I have a request to build a water purification system, including electrostatic precipitation of particulate matter, so will be doing research soon but it helps to have a starting point! I have a hard time envisioning an ionic charge on the particles, unless the electrostatic forces are so high as to keep ions of silver from falling back onto the electrode that just released them. If that is so then how can PPM be in the 100's? By the way, how come NO ONE ever mentions Zeta testers and the fact your Cs should have a Zeta of -60mv? Check out www.bic.com for limited info (makes the equipment). Ivan - you have access to one?? I need some rest - questions are like rabbits - they just multiply! f...@health2us.com -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSCoffee Filters (was Pulsed DC method)
I am using white paper towels from a roll for the kitchen. From 1 peace I cut 4 quadrates, each foldet twice to a triangle and put into a glass funnel. I never had problems. The paper seems clean enough. Good success, Günter Helena Hsu schrieb: I have been toying with the idea of filtering my home brew CS through a coffee filter. Question - how *chemically pure* are these coffee filters..?? Could these filters contaminate the CS solution or change its properties..?? Thanks for your help. Helena From: Hutt William J (Bill) DLPC hut...@ncsc.navy.mil To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSPulsed DC method Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:22:48 -0500 Filtered: Solution filtered through white coffee filters. Solution filtered 5 times, using different coffee filters each time. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSSolutions Colloids Ions...was CS information needed
of the colloid. How many ions are trapped depends strongly on the formation process (in our case the current and the voltage). The faster a colloid is formed (the faster they lump together), the more ions may be caught. This means stronger repulsion, and thermal motion is not able to let collide and merge 2 particles, smaller colloids result. (Ions left over in the process are transported to the corresponding electrode and are discharged: H+ travel to the cathode and form hydrogen gas, OH- travel to the anode and are attached to Ag atoms. Two AgOH will be transformed to 2 AgO, see above). The electric field of the particle certainly attracts water dipoles which form a layer on the surface and helps to prevent a reaction if 2 particles bounce together. Water molecules have a net charge of zero. They can not neutralize the electric field of the colloid. Colloids are very loosely bound giant molecules, which contain many water molecules (like hydrates), and which are very fragile. They are like a sponge, and this makes them so reactive. A silver spoon has only one surface, the outer one. But the silver atoms in a colloid can also be approached (by proteins? by germs?) from the inside. One says that a colloid has a large inner surface. Because of their fragile structure, the thermal motion will permanently change the shape of the colloid. Water molecules will escape and the colloid may collapse, the inner surface shrinks. Therefore sols (colloidal suspensions) of different batches and different age will certainly behave differently. Colloids are different from bulk material. They are much more delicate. The inner bonds contain many weak physical Van-der-Waals-bonds and not only strong chemical heteropolar or homeopolar bonds. Colloidal solutions age. What is better, colloids from atomic silver or from silver hydroxide, small or large particles, young or old, I don't know. There are too many parameters which are playing a role. This is the reason I guess, that CS is not systematically investigated. More: Lasers to evaporate silver have to be very powerful. Such devices are much larger then your laser pointer, normally they work in the ultraviolet and are used to cut metal sheets or are used in surgery, and are too dangerous for the public. I hope, my lengthy excursion is still readable and that I have answered your questions good enough. If I didn't do it properly, please repeat your questions again or put new ones. Günter James Osbourne, Holmes schrieb: This is incomprehensible in this form. I am adjusting the formatting and sending it around again. -Original Message- From: James Osbourne, Holmes [SMTP:a...@trail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 8:45 PM To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com' Subject:RE: CSSolutions Colloids Ions...was CS information needed Reply in your text. -Original Message- From: Guenter Poelz [SMTP:po...@mail.desy.de] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 4:11 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CSSolutions Colloids Ions...was CS information needed Guenter:Hello, let me contribute with what I have learned in chemistry. Many things have been stated already many times in this list. I will try to clarify some statements: Ions and colloidal particles both are charged, but they are different. - Metallic ions are formed when one or more electrons are stripped from the outer surface of the uncharged metallic atom. Such an ion is then positively charged. (It is also possible, but much more difficult, to attach an ion to a metallic atom to generate a negatively charged ion). Ions are also often formed by breaking a molecule into two radicals. If the electrons are unevenly divided, one part (with too much electrons) becomes a negative ion, the other one (with lacking electrons) becomes a positive one. Water is an excellent medium to penetrate into salt molecules and breaks it into ions (kitchen-salt NaCl is broken into Na+ and Cl-; also water itself H2O breaks into H+ and OH- ). JOH: Thanks. G:- Colloidal particles are formed by uncharged atoms or molecules. In the formation process they lump together, bound loosely e.g. by water bridges, but can fasten the bonds by chemical activity. These giant molecules are formed so quickly that H+ or OH- (depending on the kind of colloid) are caught and also built into the loose structure and gives the colloidal particle its charge. JOH: Would you call that a hydrated silver, or is it a different thing when the hydroxyl and the proton are separated? Do you know where I can learn about the geometry of this substance? If there were not an equal number of both bound into a given group, you could have an Ag sol with a negative charge as well as a positive charge. That would make some of them stick together? G: What does this mean for our CS? With low voltage direct current (LVDC) we detach silver ions from the silver rod connected
Re: CSCan I build a still?
Hi Liz, I think, it is not worth the effort. It is not easy to make distilled water of high quality. Vapor of water is rather aggressive. It dissolves ions from your metallic containers and fittings, dissolves organic compounds from rubber or other hoses etc. It even dissolves ions from normal glass tubings. How much, it depends on your setup. Therefor the best distilling devices are build out of Pyrex or even quartz glass. People here have often listed stores where they normally get good quality products. Try out the stores in your neighborhood. There is no guarantee on the quality if the manufacturer does not specify the content. Nevertheless good luck, Günter Liz Pavek schrieb: Is it possible to use a Presto saucepan (small pressure cooker with a valve sticking up out of the lid) to distill my own water? What would I need for fittings? I envisioned a high-temp plastic L shaped fitting to put over the valve, onto which I could attach tubing leading to my storage vessel. Is this feasible? I'm thinking of Y2K here, so it would have to be super-simple. Thanks for any help. Liz -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
