Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-19 Thread Michael Zangari
Now the new vaccine patches are in.
You don't know confusion. No you don't sew the patch on with a needle, and no 
it is not  a pad to sop up a spill from the vaccine swig.
=z=
 
=z= 
The novelist, journalist and psychologist 
Michael Zangari 
http://zangarijournalism.com



- Original Message 
From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:08:20 PM
Subject: Re: CSVaccines and autism.



  STILL don't know the difference between an oral vaccine and a shot in 
the arm?
  You eat dinner with a hypodermic I suppose.

Ode


At 04:14 PM 6/15/2008 -0400, you wrote:
Removing mercury and adding aspartame doesn't change a thing in the 
vaccines. If anything it makes them more toxic, from one neuro-toxin to 
the other. What in the world would be the point of adding a sweetener to 
something that is administered to your bloodstream?? Vaccines are nothing 
more than poulation/mind control/eugenics, that's what they're all about.

Kurt


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Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-17 Thread Ode Coyote


Possibly so, but that's a diferent subject with a whole different set of 
approaches.


 Autism is one thing with a cause and maybe many triggers, toxic damage 
is another much more direct bugaboo.
But it has been proven that the *amount* of toxins in a vaccine doesn't do 
anything to trigger Autism as eliminating them did not affect the rates one 
little bit.
 Eliminating the toxins is still not a bad idea, but for other 
reasons...but CAN they be eliminated to an affect with environmental load 
being many times that of what may be in a vaccine.


If you turn off your flashlight while standing under a flood light, sure, 
it'll save some power and if you don't need it for something else, why 
not?. but it's still pretty darned bright in that place.



This would be interesting, if true.  But, yes it does seem like we people 
like to hang our hats on something anything, to give us direction, purpose 
and make our life seem more meaningful. sigh   But it is clear that 
there is a huge increase in autism and many other neurological symptoms 
that are probably due to toxic insults.



I do think parents have to have some common sense and really look at what 
they *want* for their children. No child should have ANY vaccine of any 
kind when that child has a fever, or even a little cold. And as for giving 
a whole slew of them at once, that is because the experts expect that the 
poorer parents, and the parents who do not want to be bothered, will only 
show up for one appt, instead of a half dozen, which is the way it used to 
be done. The decisions made in the so called interest of Public Health 
have been shown in my experience to be contrary to the interest of my 
children. One must stand up for themselves these days, and refuse to cede 
their authority to someone who may not have their child's best interest at 
heart (nearly everyone else besides the parents).



##  With judgement comes consequences.
 If you feel qualified to judge, then judge, but if you are wrong, there 
be consequences same as if someone else does the deciding...but no one to 
blame.

 There probably IS no right way with no two people being the same.
 Public Health doesn't have the capacity to make individual 
judgments...it's public. Its job is to take up the slack for slackers, but 
also can't define them very well..so you stand up and identify 
yourself...well done.
 Always best to err on the side of caution. [Doesn't mean you'll win, just 
increases the odds that you won't lose as much as fast]

No easy answers...no safe way.

 Virtually everyone gets away with the single visit..some don't.
 It would be nice to know before hand who that is and what day to 
miss...and that day may be coming.
 But pinning a tail on the wrong donkey in a herd of donkeys going 
different directions, won't get us there.


..lots of hooves going in circles trampling everything.
Ode



kathryn


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RE: CSVaccines and autism. -- Vets and multi-shots

2008-06-16 Thread Dee
I'm sure it does.  I worked in a vets and saw many vaccine damaged animals. 
Some collapsed there and then in the surgery ('Oh, its because its
frightened!') or a few months later it would develop pancreatitis or its
skin would erupt, or it would get encephalitis,  ('Oh, it's nothing to do
with the vaccine!') said the vet!  Dee PS I think we are now dangerously
close to incurring Mikes displeasure over this issue, so I'd better shut up!

---Original Message---
 
From: Judy Knowlton
Date: 15/06/2008 18:43:00
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSVaccines and autism. -- Vets and multi-shots
 
A friend took her English Spaniel to the Vet’s, who gave ALL shots on the
same visit.
The dog became very ill, lethargic, changed personality, I think a blood
disease -- etc.  The animal seemed totally overwhelmed. The Vet said not to
breed her anymore (she’d had only one litter.) Soon after, he told her that
this was becoming a somewhat common problem, and Vets were discussing
dropping the practice of multi-shots at a single visit. Her Vet already has
stopped. (He’s my cat’s doctor too, so I know the truth of that.)
I wonder if this isn’t something that needs to be researched in children. 
Judy Down Maine 
 
 

Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-16 Thread Ode Coyote

 Recently the  government's vaccine court conceded the case of Hannah Poling,
admitting that  vaccines triggered her regression into autism by exacerbating
mitochondrial  dysfunction

Read what it says rather than what you want it to mean.

IOW it is mitochondrial  dysfunction that was the *cause* and a vaccine 
the *trigger* for that cause, regardless of Mercury or Aluminum content, 
therefore, the mercury was neither cause nor trigger...further indicated 
by other studies of both vaccinated and unvaccinated control subjects where 
mercury levels were the same in both from environmental loads [And Aluminum 
is completely unavoidable, being the 3rd most common element on the planet]


If mitochondrial dysfunction is common to monkeys [IOW, not necessarily a 
dysfunction FOR monkeys but part of their common genetic structure ], a 
human vaccine would naturally trigger more Autistic signs, proving nothing 
about humans,  but much about susceptible genetic conditions that both 
humans and monkeys can have.
If anything, it all means Don't vaccinate monkeys, they won't commonly 
tolerate it  OR. certain uncommon children who share that condition 
with a common monkey.



The common factor that contains ALL the other conditions in *humans* is the 
effects of a given *vaccine* COUPLED WITH mitochondrial  dysfunction.
 The next question is:  Since eliminating toxins made 
absolutely-no-difference, does going *unvaccinated* eliminate Autism?
 That does NOT mean that toxins shouldn't be eliminated for other reasons 
not relevant to Autism.  That's another stand alone consideration.
 If catching the disease that the vaccine prevents has the same effect as 
the vaccine, then the answer is no...BUT..everyone else being vaccinated 
will interrupt a disease vector and  that childs odds of ever contracting 
that disease will be greatly diminished.
 Therefore NOT vaccinating *certain* people  will prevent Autism BY 
vaccinating other people.


Therefore, the answer to the problem of CAUSE [vs triggers ] is to develop 
genetic screening tests to determine who should and who shouldn't be 
vaccinated.
 Studying mitochondrial dysfunction in both humans AND monkeys will lead 
to those tests being possible...and that IS relevant.


Blaming non triggers won't do a danged thing but make screamers feel 
justified about not using their heads and make people who can add two and 
two together and not wind up with minus 12 shake theirs in dismay.
 Knowing what triggers what, in who, can lead to avoiding triggers, EVEN 
IF actual *causation* can't be avoided.


Plus mitochondrial  dysfunction is most likely hereditary as a 
combination of recessive genes, so who should and shouldn't replicate could 
be an important factor in not visiting the likelihood of Autism on their 
children.
 Do YOU care enough about children to make good strong ones?  Or would you 
rather just blame the problems that weak ones have on the irrelevant while 
NOT doing what CAN be done.


 It, like cycle cell anemia, could probably be eliminated from the gene 
pool by screening, parental self control and wise choices..but since when 
were the majority of parents acting wisely when having children any more 
than insisting [despite very strong evidence to the contrary ] on blaming 
the wrong thing for a problem and being surprised when eliminating that 
...does NOTHING to change ANYTHING, yet still insist that's IT.
 Obviously, some would prefer a scape goat to barbecue, over a solution 
that requires considered responsible action on their own parts where 
something can actually be done when making ANY sort of noise cannot solve 
the wrong problem.
An easy way out, to total failure and helplessness.but gee,  mindless 
anger expressed feels like work and golly, it IS work..digging a below 
sea level ditch to the ocean.
 If you get there you'll drown, but at least you got tired and sweaty with 
lots of other people in that ditch for the right company.


..or consuming electricity made by Mercury [by the annual tons ] spewing 
power plants, for that matter while worrying madly about how many Tuna 
Fish sandwiches you eat. [ Proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be 
Irrelevant* to Autism rates, but still a nasty toxin.]


..or being stuck with a gas guzzler because you didn't notice the 
inevitable future and didn't buy the small car when you could have, then 
can't because you didn't, so its' the Automakers fault for not making 
something that doesn't sell when NO automaker can do that and stay in 
business to sell anything at all.


 That's like avoiding speeding cars by stepping in front of trains and 
blaming tracks for injuries while ignoring the differences in mass and 
inertia common to both situations...and attacking the powers that be 
physics by going SPLAT ...very loudly in protest.


 OK, apply all efforts to being right over solving a serious problem.
If it doesn't work, do it harder to someone else. [Earth Motto]
Good luck..have fun 

Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-16 Thread Ode Coyote



  Ever seen what salt does to slugs?
 If you ignore context, anything can be used to prove anything.

..and this is your brains on fried eggs. [never mind that hot pan with the 
blue flamey stuff under it] Your skull is teflon coated and your head eggs 
won't stick to it, scrambled or not.
..and never use a steel spatula to scrape your brains out..it'll scratch 
the pan, making your skull usless.


Ode



At 05:28 PM 6/15/2008 +0100, you wrote:
I didn't think it said this at all. I thought it didn't dismiss this but 
that the whole vaccine thing needed to be more thoroughly researched, with 
*all* its components.  Being that mercury is a neurotoxin I still think 
that the most likely cause.  Have you seen the Mercola video where it 
shows mercury destroying nerve cells in a slug?  Dee


---Original Message---

From: mailto:clay...@skypoint.comClayton Family
Date: 06/15/08 16:17:58
To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.comsilver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVaccines and autism.

The point was that it is not the mercury that is causing the problems.

On Jun 15, 2008, at 8:21 AM, bbanever wrote:


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Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-16 Thread Ode Coyote



  STILL don't know the difference between an oral vaccine and a shot in 
the arm?

 You eat dinner with a hypodermic I suppose.

Ode


At 04:14 PM 6/15/2008 -0400, you wrote:
Removing mercury and adding aspartame doesn't change a thing in the 
vaccines. If anything it makes them more toxic, from one neuro-toxin to 
the other. What in the world would be the point of adding a sweetener to 
something that is administered to your bloodstream?? Vaccines are nothing 
more than poulation/mind control/eugenics, that's what they're all about.


Kurt



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Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-16 Thread Clayton Family


On Jun 16, 2008, at 8:58 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:

 Recently the  government's vaccine court conceded the case of Hannah 
Poling,
admitting that  vaccines triggered her regression into autism by 
exacerbating

mitochondrial  dysfunction

Read what it says rather than what you want it to mean.

The common factor that contains ALL the other conditions in *humans* 
is the effects of a given *vaccine* COUPLED WITH mitochondrial  
dysfunction.
 The next question is:  Since eliminating toxins made 
absolutely-no-difference, does going *unvaccinated* eliminate Autism?
 That does NOT mean that toxins shouldn't be eliminated for other 
reasons not relevant to Autism.  That's another stand alone 
consideration.


They did not eliminated the toxins, just ruled out the mercury as the 
cause. There is some other effect on the toxicological system that is 
involved.  There have been many studies since the 70's showing how 
severly affected autistic children are to environmental toxins. And it 
is well known that in most people, an additive effect occurs, possibly 
from toxic damage, also from poisons in the food supply. The Genetic 
Engineering Experiment has introduced so many into the general food 
supply that it compromises the integrity of many other experiments, 
since it is probably not controlled for.




Plus mitochondrial  dysfunction is most likely hereditary as a 
combination of recessive genes, so who should and shouldn't replicate 
could be an important factor in not visiting the likelihood of Autism 
on their children.
 Do YOU care enough about children to make good strong ones?  Or would 
you rather just blame the problems that weak ones have on the 
irrelevant while NOT doing what CAN be done.


I disagree. Mitochondrial dysfunction can result from poisoning in most 
people. It is why they put certain things in biological weapons- it is 
to wreak havok on the enemy's population, to further weaken them, in 
theory. If it did not maim and kill, would not be much point to the 
exercise.  When the military is touting the effects of T2 to kill, you 
hear one thing, when it is the CDC, trying to calm fears of permanent 
damage from mold toxins (which include T2) you hear the opposite.  
There may be a genetic factor in some people, but it has to be very 
common or it would be worthless as a weapon.



 It, like cycle cell anemia, could probably be eliminated from the 
gene pool by screening, parental self control and wise choices..but 
since when were the majority of parents acting wisely when having 
children any more than insisting [despite very strong evidence to the 
contrary ] on blaming the wrong thing for a problem and being 
surprised when eliminating that ...does NOTHING to change ANYTHING, 
yet still insist that's IT.




This would be interesting, if true.  But, yes it does seem like we 
people like to hang our hats on something anything, to give us 
direction, purpose and make our life seem more meaningful. sigh   But 
it is clear that there is a huge increase in autism and many other 
neurological symptoms that are probably due to toxic insults.




 OK, apply all efforts to being right over solving a serious problem.
If it doesn't work, do it harder to someone else. [Earth Motto]
Good luck..have fun with that.
I'll be quitely watching where I walk.

To date, the CDC has
conducted no  safety testing on the possible harmful effects of 
simultaneously
administering  multiple vaccines to infants,...[tests that might 
actually tell something have yet to be developed and tests that say 
nothing are pointless.





I do think parents have to have some common sense and really look at 
what they *want* for their children. No child should have ANY vaccine 
of any kind when that child has a fever, or even a little cold. And as 
for giving a whole slew of them at once, that is because the experts 
expect that the poorer parents, and the parents who do not want to be 
bothered, will only show up for one appt, instead of a half dozen, 
which is the way it used to be done. The decisions made in the so 
called interest of Public Health have been shown in my experience to be 
contrary to the interest of my children. One must stand up for 
themselves these days, and refuse to cede their authority to someone 
who may not have their child's best interest at heart (nearly everyone 
else besides the parents).


kathryn


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CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-15 Thread bbanever

This one's for Ode,

INFANT  PRIMATES GIVEN VACCINES ON U.S. CHILDREN'S IMMUNIZATION SCHEDULE
DEVELOP  BEHAVIORAL SYMPTOMS OF AUTISM
_http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/press051908.php_
(http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/press051908.php)


GROUNDBREAKING RESEARCH  PROVIDES EVEN MORE SCIENCE SUPPORTING THE THEORY
THAT VACCINES CAN AND DO CAUSE  AUTISM

Nixa, MO - A primate model for autism using the U.S. children's
immunization schedule was unveiled at the International Meeting For Autism 
Research
(IMFAR) this weekend. The research underscores the critical need for 
studies into

vaccine safety and the immune and mitochondrial dysfunction of  autistic
children. The National Autism Association (NAA) questions why the 
government hasn'

t undertaken these vital studies and why researchers have had to  depend on
private money to perform this critical science that will surely impact  the
health of millions of children worldwide.

While the authors and  organizations associated with this study are
withholding comment until  publication, University of Pittsburgh's Dr. Laura 
Hewitson,

Ph.D., described at  the IMFAR meeting how vaccinated animals, when compared
to unvaccinated animals,  showed significant neurodevelopmental deficits and 


significant associations  between specific aberrant social and non-social
behaviors, isotope binding, and  vaccine exposure.

Researchers also reported at the scientific meeting  that vaccinated 
animals
exhibited progressively severe chronic active  inflammation whereas 
unexposed

animals did not and found many significant  differences in the GI tissue
gene expression profiles between vaccinated and  unvaccinated animals.
Gastrointestinal issues are a common symptom of children  with regressive 
autism.


NAA calls for the NIH to conduct large scale,  non-epidemiological studies
into the biomedical symptoms surrounding young  children and all vaccines,
including those containing the mercury-based  preservative thimerosal and 
other

additives like aluminum.

This request  for further research echoes that of Dr. Bernadine Healy, 
Former

NIH Director in  a CBS interview earlier this week. I think public health
officials have been  too quick to dismiss the hypothesis as 'irrational,'
without sufficient studies  of causation... without studying the population 
that got
sick, Healy said. I  have not seen major studies that focus on 300 kids 
who

got autistic symptoms  within a period of a few weeks of the vaccines.

Recently the  government's vaccine court conceded the case of Hannah Poling,
admitting that  vaccines triggered her regression into autism by 
exacerbating

mitochondrial  dysfunction. The recent Poling case and this new research
provide further  evidence that the CDC has fallen down on their job to 
protect

children from  harm. The biomedical research to date suggests that parental
reports of  regression following vaccination is not only plausible, but 
likely in

certain  individuals, said Scott Bono, NAA Chairman. To date, the CDC has
conducted no  safety testing on the possible harmful effects of 
simultaneously

administering  multiple vaccines to infants, and has steadfastly refused to
state a preference  for mercury-free vaccines to be given to children and 
pregnant

women. It's time  for HHS and Congress to step in and take vaccine safety
away from the  CDC.

On June 4th, parents of vaccine-injured children will rally for  toxin-free
immunizations in Washington, DC. For more information visit
_www.nationalautism.org_ (http://www.nationalautism.org/) .
- Original Message - 
From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: CSDental Mercury VictoryFDA MUST classify fillings





How are people screwing up your genes?


What I was suggesting was the value and wisdom of preventing already 
screwed up genes from being passed down.


Ode






And I don't think *anyone* has the right to screw up my genes without my 
knowledge and consent. But it is being done, on purpose anyway. Sometimes 
I wonder why I bother voting, except maybe to be heard from.


kathryn

On Jun 13, 2



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Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-15 Thread Clayton Family

The point was that it is not the mercury that is causing the problems.

On Jun 15, 2008, at 8:21 AM, bbanever wrote:


This one's for Ode,

INFANT  PRIMATES GIVEN VACCINES ON U.S. CHILDREN'S IMMUNIZATION 
SCHEDULE

DEVELOP  BEHAVIORAL SYMPTOMS OF AUTISM
_http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/press051908.php_
(http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/press051908.php)




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Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-15 Thread Dee
I didn't think it said this at all. I thought it didn't dismiss this but
that the whole vaccine thing needed to be more thoroughly researched, with
*all* its components.  Being that mercury is a neurotoxin I still think that
the most likely cause.  Have you seen the Mercola video where it shows
mercury destroying nerve cells in a slug?  Dee 

---Original Message---
 
From: Clayton Family
Date: 06/15/08 16:17:58
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVaccines and autism.
 
The point was that it is not the mercury that is causing the problems.
 
On Jun 15, 2008, at 8:21 AM, bbanever wrote:
 

RE: CSVaccines and autism. -- Vets and multi-shots

2008-06-15 Thread Judy Knowlton
A friend took her English Spaniel to the Vet’s, who gave ALL shots on the
same visit.
The dog became very ill, lethargic, changed personality, I think a blood
disease -- etc.  The animal seemed totally overwhelmed. The Vet said not to
breed her anymore (she’d had only one litter.) Soon after, he told her that
this was becoming a somewhat common problem, and Vets were discussing
dropping the practice of multi-shots at a single visit. Her Vet already has
stopped. (He’s my cat’s doctor too, so I know the truth of that.)
I wonder if this isn’t something that needs to be researched in children.
Judy Down Maine


-Original Message-
From: Dee [mailto:d...@deetroy.org]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 12:28 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVaccines and autism.

I didn't think it said this at all. I thought it didn't dismiss this but
that the whole vaccine thing needed to be more thoroughly researched, with
*all* its components.  Being that mercury is a neurotoxin I still think that
the most likely cause.  Have you seen the Mercola video where it shows
mercury destroying nerve cells in a slug?  Dee

---Original Message---

From: Clayton Family mailto:clay...@skypoint.com
Date: 06/15/08 16:17:58
To: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVaccines and autism.

The point was that it is not the mercury that is causing the problems.

On Jun 15, 2008, at 8:21 AM, bbanever wrote:






Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-15 Thread Clayton Family
there was a very good study looking at the mercury connection, and it 
was ruled out. There are people that have reactions to the thimerosol 
(mercury) in the vaccines, but that is not necessarily the same thing. 
There are a whole ton of things that are poisonous to the nervous 
system, and there may be several different ones in any given vaccine. 
Mercury is only one possibility.


Mercury is definitely poisonous, and neurotoxic. That does not mean 
that it is the main problem.


On Jun 15, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Dee wrote:

I didn't think it said this at all. I thought it didn't dismiss this 
but that the whole vaccine thing needed to be more thoroughly 
researched, with *all* its components.  Being that mercury is a 
neurotoxin I still think that the most likely cause.  Have you seen 
the Mercola video where it shows mercury destroying nerve cells in a 
slug?  Dee

 
---Original Message---
 
From: Clayton Family
Date: 06/15/08 16:17:58
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVaccines and autism.
 
The point was that it is not the mercury that is causing the problems.
 
On Jun 15, 2008, at 8:21 AM, bbanever wrote:
 



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Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-15 Thread kmilkowski
Removing mercury and adding aspartame doesn't change a thing in the vaccines. 
If anything it makes them more toxic, from one neuro-toxin to the other. What 
in the world would be the point of adding a sweetener to something that is 
administered to your bloodstream?? Vaccines are nothing more than 
poulation/mind control/eugenics, that's what they're all about.

Kurt
 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: 
 there was a very good study looking at the mercury connection, and it 
 was ruled out. There are people that have reactions to the thimerosol 
 (mercury) in the vaccines, but that is not necessarily the same thing. 
 There are a whole ton of things that are poisonous to the nervous 
 system, and there may be several different ones in any given vaccine. 
 Mercury is only one possibility.
 
 Mercury is definitely poisonous, and neurotoxic. That does not mean 
 that it is the main problem.
 
 On Jun 15, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Dee wrote:
 
  I didn't think it said this at all. I thought it didn't dismiss this 
  but that the whole vaccine thing needed to be more thoroughly 
  researched, with *all* its components.  Being that mercury is a 
  neurotoxin I still think that the most likely cause.  Have you seen 
  the Mercola video where it shows mercury destroying nerve cells in a 
  slug?  Dee
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  From: Clayton Family
  Date: 06/15/08 16:17:58
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSVaccines and autism.
   
  The point was that it is not the mercury that is causing the problems.
   
  On Jun 15, 2008, at 8:21 AM, bbanever wrote:
   
 
 
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Re: CSVaccines and autism.

2008-06-15 Thread bbanever
I'm sure that mercury plays a big part is many of the cases that develop. 
It is a potent neurotoxin that permeates the blood brain barrier.  Of 
course, other ingredients such as aluminum and formaldehyde, or evey 
aspartame, can cause systemic neurological disease.  A bad immune response 
can cause swelling of the brain too... not to mention other auto-immune 
diseases which are too numerous to mention.  Vaccines are dangerous, period.
- Original Message - 
From: Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: CSVaccines and autism.



The point was that it is not the mercury that is causing the problems.

On Jun 15, 2008, at 8:21 AM, bbanever wrote:


This one's for Ode,

INFANT  PRIMATES GIVEN VACCINES ON U.S. CHILDREN'S IMMUNIZATION SCHEDULE
DEVELOP  BEHAVIORAL SYMPTOMS OF AUTISM
_http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/press051908.php_
(http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/press051908.php)




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