Re: [Simh] Lost PDP-11 OSes?

[Dave L]

Ahh MUMPS, never met it on the PDP11 but did on the VAX, the financial  
system Quasar (ACT) was written in it. Supported that at 2 companies I  
worked at tho while it was fast it wasn't so good with abrupt system  
outages, being the application was never coded to handle transaction  
integrity, neither was the language back then. You had to code to use the  
roll-back and checkpointing, it wasn't handled at the DB level like  
"proper" databases like Rdb were.




On Thu, 21 May 2020 19:53:53 +0100, Paul Koning   
wrote:





On May 20, 2020, at 11:38 PM, Ray Jewhurst   
wrote:


I am trying to collect all the OSes that I can for the PDP-11 on Simh  
and I have noticed that there are a few missing.


Along those lines: is there MUMPS-11 anywhere?  That's nicely obscure.   
Another obscure one is CAPS-11, though that's probably far less  
interesting.


MUMPS was a database system, apparently a very good one.  It was used as  
the core for ASSIST-11, a telephone directory assistance database.  In  
other words, the database that 411 operators would consult to answer  
your request for a phone number in a second or two.  Database lookup in  
a million-record or so database, in around a second, on a PDP-11 in  
1978.  Nice.


paul


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Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist Licenses ?

[Dave Wade]

Mike,
Not really huge. OpenVms  for VAX ISO is 180Mb and that includes DECNET and 
TCP-IP, and so that’s enough to get started.
The language installs are all small. 10-20Mb.
Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Stramba 
> Sent: 13 May 2020 21:49
> To: Dave Wade 
> Cc: Steven M Jones ; simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist
> Licenses ?
> 
> Ok thx.
> 
> Ya I put "personal learning"
> 
> On a related note, do you guys know of a cheap shared 'nix hosting service
> where I can run Openvms ?
> 
> I have a free account on alwaysdata.net at the moment, and will look into
> their paid options.
> 
> Eventually I will run it on my own box but I have a very slow connection right
> now, and I'm guessing the download is (relatively) huge  (how big is it ?)
> 
> Mikec
> 
> On 5/13/20, Dave Wade  wrote:
> > Can take 24 hours. Its done in India.
> > Did you fill in the "what I am going to use it for" box
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Mike
> Stramba
> >> Sent: 13 May 2020 21:32
> >> To: Steven M Jones 
> >> Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist
> >> Licenses ?
> >>
> >> Hmm,  ~ 16 hours after submitting , and still no reply / license info
> >>
> >> How long does license issue  usually take ?
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/28/20, Steven M Jones  wrote:
> >> > On 04/28/2020 15:00, Richard wrote:
> >> >> In article <581a87f9-4be6-7bde-badb-
> 30b563a01...@thereinhardts.org>,
> >> >>  "John H. Reinhardt"  writes:
> >> >>
> >> >>> In the meantime, if you haven't, get your HPE Hobbyist license(s)
> >> >>> as they are counting the number of participants which may go to VSI.
> >> >>> The new license will not expire until January 1, 2022.
> >> >> I've been lax with my VAXen.  How do I do this again?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Should be able to do that here:
> >> > https://www.hpe.com/h41268/live/index_e.aspx?qid=24548
> >> >
> >> > You'll need to be affiliated with a group in their list. I
> >> > recommend DECUServe, my understanding is they don't have any
> >> > geographic requirements. You can do that by telnet or ssh to
> >> > eisner.decuserve.org, username REGISTRATION (no password, just hit
> >> > Return), and follow the prompts. It'll take some time for the data
> >> > to propagate to HPE if you have to create an account, measured in
> >> > days not
> >> weeks.
> >> >
> >> > "Share & Enjoy!"
> >> > --S.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Simh mailing list
> >> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >> ___
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> >> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >
> >

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Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist Licenses ?

[Dave Wade]

Can take 24 hours. Its done in India.
Did you fill in the "what I am going to use it for" box

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Mike Stramba
> Sent: 13 May 2020 21:32
> To: Steven M Jones 
> Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Has anyone contacted VSI directly about Hobbyist
> Licenses ?
> 
> Hmm,  ~ 16 hours after submitting , and still no reply / license info
> 
> How long does license issue  usually take ?
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On 4/28/20, Steven M Jones  wrote:
> > On 04/28/2020 15:00, Richard wrote:
> >> In article <581a87f9-4be6-7bde-badb-30b563a01...@thereinhardts.org>,
> >>  "John H. Reinhardt"  writes:
> >>
> >>> In the meantime, if you haven't, get your HPE Hobbyist license(s) as
> >>> they are counting the number of participants which may go to VSI.
> >>> The new license will not expire until January 1, 2022.
> >> I've been lax with my VAXen.  How do I do this again?
> >
> >
> > Should be able to do that here:
> > https://www.hpe.com/h41268/live/index_e.aspx?qid=24548
> >
> > You'll need to be affiliated with a group in their list. I recommend
> > DECUServe, my understanding is they don't have any geographic
> > requirements. You can do that by telnet or ssh to
> > eisner.decuserve.org, username REGISTRATION (no password, just hit
> > Return), and follow the prompts. It'll take some time for the data to
> > propagate to HPE if you have to create an account, measured in days not
> weeks.
> >
> > "Share & Enjoy!"
> > --S.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> ___
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Re: [Simh] OpenVms on SIMH - which license ?

[Dave Wade]

Mike,
I think for SIMH you only need VAX, but I got VAX/ALPHA as there are Alpha 
emulators around. 
"Integrity" is for Itanium and I can't see an Itanium emulator appearing soon.
Make sure you fill in the box that says what you are going to use it for.
Its marked as "not mandatory" but I have seen reports that if you don't they 
don't send a licence.
Dave 

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Mike Stramba
> Sent: 13 May 2020 03:51
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] OpenVms on SIMH - which license ?
> 
> Which license should I choose to run OpenVms on Simh ? :
> 
> The registration for OpenVms at :
> 
> https://www.hpe.com/h41268/live/index_e.aspx?qid=24548
> 
> has these choices :
> 
>│ 2: OpenVMS VAX/Alpha   │
>│ 3: OpenVMS Integrity   │
>  4: OpenVMS VAX/Alpha and OpenVMS Integrity
> 
> thx
> 
> Mike
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Re: [Simh] Newbie questions about VMS for VAX

[Dave Wade]

> 2. About the versions of (Open)VMS. As I understand, 7.3 is the newest
> version for VAX, and it's still rather old, but I'm okay with that, and 
> possibly
> with even older versions. Does the HPE hobbyist program license older
> versions than 7.3 for the VAX? Do all versions require licenses? There are
> various old VMS versions circulating over the Internet, are they any good?


HPE will if you ask, send you a link to 7.3 if you ask. Whilst 7.3 is old its 
pretty good.
If you ask they will send you Alpha & VAX licences. There are later version of 
VMS for Alpha.
There are some Alpha emulators about but not as good as the alpha emulators..

> 
> Again, sorry if these questions have obvious answers; because for me, they
> don't. Thanks in advance.

Dave

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Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 194, Issue 56

[dave porter]

Paul Koning wrote

RSTS/E had a general mechanism called "run-time system", vaguely like a 
cross between a shell and a shared library.


Or in more modern jargon an "operating system personality".  Take *that*, 
Windows NT !


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Re: [Simh] VAX PSI

[dave porter]

Paul Koning wrote:

X.25 is indeed asymmetrical.  Whether that can be gotten around is not 
entirely clear to me.


Well, we did :-)

For X25-11M (Datapac, Transpac, as I recall) it involved using console 
switches to jam certain status bits into a certain lowcore word in order to 
convince the software it had initialized  :-)   For its successor, RSX-11M 
PSI (or whatever its name was) there was some slightly cleaner way to do it.


This might well have been suitable for testing only, in that you promised 
not to originate calls that would collide. Or maybe the magic was to change 
address allocation for the fake-DCE end.  Them brain cells have long since 
vanished, sorry.



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Re: [Simh] VAX PSI

[dave porter]

I have been involved in a project using VAX-2780-3780PE and have been able 
to connect two VAX’s together using a Black Box Synchronous Modem 
Eliminator ( SME ).


Sure, but the point I was trying to make was that if your goal is to 
specifically use VAX PSI then you may be able to operate back-to-back even 
though that is not the focus of the VAX PSI product.


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[Simh] VAX PSI

[dave porter]

I know almost nothing about VAX PSI, but I have a vague idea
that even though X.25 is asymmetric and intended for DTE to 
DCE communication (i.e., your computer to the phone 
company's premises), it may be possible to coerce it

into talking from one VAX to another (via null modem
cable connecting two devices such as DUP-11s).

I worked on RSX-11M PSI and that's how we tested in
the lab.  I can no longer remember how that was done.
Undocumented option somewhere, no doubt.


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[Simh] VMS hobbyist license

[dave porter]

I let my VMS hobbyist license expire a few years back.  Can I get one
now for the next year?  Would someone remind me of how?

Thanks.
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Re: [Simh] Command mode on SIMH for Windows

[Dave Wade]

I think some of the control keys get snaffled by windows. Might be worth
disabling "control keys shortcuts"  on the cmd window.

Dave 

 

From: Simh  On Behalf Of Timothy Stark
Sent: 16 January 2020 17:22
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] Command mode on SIMH for Windows

 

I am now set SIMH up on Windows 10 system.  I tried to enter command mode
from console by press ^E but it did not response. I can't exit SIMH until I
closed windows. 

 

Does anyone know which key for Windows to enter command mode?

 

Thanks,

Tim

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Re: [Simh] Error in rsx-11mplus every 5 minutes?

[Dave Shevett]

So being clever I tried to do this by hand with a del command:

$ DEL DU0:[1,6]SYSSCAN.TMP
Delete file   DU0:[1,6]SYSSCAN.TMP;1[Y/N/G/Q]? Y
DEL -- Failed to mark file for delete
DU0:[1,6]SYSSCAN.TMP;1 -- No such file
Delete file   DU0:[1,6]SYSSCAN.TMP;2[Y/N/G/Q]? Y
DEL -- Failed to mark file for delete
DU0:[1,6]SYSSCAN.TMP;2 -- File ID, sequence number check

It looks like the PIP command did work (no error at least)

$ PIP DU0:[1,6]SYSSCAN.TMP;/RM
$

Why did the DEL command not work?

Also, how did you know it was in 1,6?  The error message was ???,???

 -d, learning

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 6:13 AM Johnny Billquist  wrote:
>
> On 2020-01-08 04:24, Dave Shevett wrote:
> > 04:04:00  SYSLOG -- 70. *ERROR* On scan file open
> > 04:04:00  SYSLOG -- 4. FCS I/O error code = 346
> >file: DU0:[???,???]SYSSCAN.TMP;1
> > 04:09:00  SYSLOG -- 70. *ERROR* On scan file open
> > 04:09:00  SYSLOG -- 4. FCS I/O error code = 346
> >file: DU0:[???,???]SYSSCAN.TMP;1
> This is because of an improper shutdown of the system. Probably you just
> turned the machine off, or restarted without first shutting down.
>
> What happens is that there is a file used by the system which is marked
> for deletion when closed. The file do get deleted, because that part is
> managed right. However, the directory entry for the file is then still
> around. When the system starts up, it tries to open the existing file
> before creating a new one, and it does succeed in finding the file in
> the directory, but the actual file is not there anymore. So opening the
> file fails with this error code.
>
> .err 346
> 000346 (230): %I/O-E-IE.NSF, no such file
> .
>
> The solution is to delete the directory entry:
>
> PIP DU0:[1,6]SYSSCAN.TMP;/RM
>
>Johnny
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
>||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol



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[Simh] Error in rsx-11mplus every 5 minutes?

[Dave Shevett]

04:04:00  SYSLOG -- 70. *ERROR* On scan file open
04:04:00  SYSLOG -- 4. FCS I/O error code = 346
  file: DU0:[???,???]SYSSCAN.TMP;1
04:09:00  SYSLOG -- 70. *ERROR* On scan file open
04:09:00  SYSLOG -- 4. FCS I/O error code = 346
  file: DU0:[???,???]SYSSCAN.TMP;1

 -d

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[Simh] Folks who have old DECUS tapes... look for something for me?

[Dave Shevett]

I saw a couple posts about people who had access to old DECUS
archives.  This is a long shot, but I might as well ask.

When I was a wee undergrad at RIT, I sucked as a student, but I loved
coding games.  I wrote a couple games that ran under VMS - they were
all in BASIC (whichever variant of BASIC was active on VMS in 1982),
but used the ReGIS graphics library for doing games on the terminals.

One was called Labyrinth, and I'm pretty sure it outlasted my tenure
there.  A dungeon crawling game.

The other might have just been called Trek.  Used a custom font loaded
into the ReGIS graphics lib and had little starships and stuff in it.
IT was a rewrite of one of the old Creative Computing games.

I don't suppose ya'll have seen either of these around, and if so, can
send me the source code?  That would be a major goal of mine to get
those running again.

 -d

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Re: [Simh] Some beginner questions about RSX11 and/or RSTS on simh...

[Dave Shevett]

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 1:39 PM Paul Koning  wrote:
> You mean real RSX, not POS?

So, IIRC, P/OS was built on top of RSX11.  It was the menu system and
application framework, but under the covers, it was all RSX11.  I
remember if you had the (development option?) you could drop to a DCL
prompt and do whatever you liked with it.

> > 1) I'm assuming RSX-11m is where I should be focusing my work - even
> > though my personal systems were RSTS based, (with an occasional boot
> > of RT11 to test stuff)  i feel RSX-11m is the more 'complete' and
> > modern OS (contextually speaking).  Does this make sense?
>
> Not necessarily.  It depends a bit on what you want to do.  As Johnny points 
> out, if you want TCP/IP, the only RSX will do thanks to his work.  (Or Unix I 
> suppose, but I assume we're talking DEC operating systems.)  If you want to 
> write device drivers, RSX or RT are options, RSTS is not.  (At least not in 
> the sense of something you can do from documentation -- it *can* be done and 
> has been but unless you were part of the RSTS/E engineering team it's quite 
> tough to pull off.)  If you want something really fast and skinny, RT-11 is 
> the obvious answer.  RSTS/E of course is the place for traditional 
> timesharing.
>
> If you are looking for places to run application programs you might have 
> lying around, RSTS/E is probably a very good answer.  It has both RT11 and 
> RSX emulation that's quite solid.  Some real time features may not be great, 
> though they should be faked adequately.  For example, RSTS doesn't have ASTs 
> or asynchronous I/O (except some disk and tape I/O in V9.0 and later) but the 
> emulation will fake it.  Similarly, you can run user interfaces that feel 
> like RT11 or RSX, at least superficially.  And DCL in V9 or V10 is very good.

It really does come down to "what do I want to do with this" doesn't
it?  I'm not a strong programmer outside of high level languages
(though I know a half dozen assembler variants)

I was in college when I started most of my DEC experience, and that
was all on 11/730's.  Vaxen running VMS.  I wrote a ton of stuff in
BASIC-11 that used ReGIS to display stuff via the GIGI terminals.
When I worked for a DEC reseller later, the Pro/350's we had ran a
bunch of ReGIS demos that were awesome.  I think my ultimate goal is
to have a GIGI (or, I suppose, anything htat supported ReGIS, which
includes a VT240 I believe) connected to the PiDP11 running graphics
stuff.   RSTS/E or RSX11 will do either of these things just fine I
think.

I guess mostly I want DCL, EDT, ability to telnet in, and ultimately a
ReGIS terminal.

Oh, and if we're talking ponies, if I could play Empire... one last
time... :) :) :)

Right now I'm focusing on finishing up the PiDP11 front panel -
hopefully that'll be in the next week, then i'll have my blinkenlights
:)

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[Simh] Some beginner questions about RSX11 and/or RSTS on simh...

[Dave Shevett]

Hi everyone - happily getting into simh now, reliving my happy
upbringing on DEC hardware :) . I used to run RSTS on my own 11/34a,
and did a bunch of other work on RSX-11m on DEC Pro/350's, so very
much looking forward to reliving some of those times.

A couple basic questions

1) I'm assuming RSX-11m is where I should be focusing my work - even
though my personal systems were RSTS based, (with an occasional boot
of RT11 to test stuff)  i feel RSX-11m is the more 'complete' and
modern OS (contextually speaking).  Does this make sense?

2) I very much want to be able to telnet into the Pi and log into
RSX11.  My goal is to be able to log in, run EDT sessions, and maybe
get back into my old BASIC programming chops (okay, and I also miss
Macro-11).  I've found a few references in archives to various TCP
stacks, and a SHOW NETWORK is showing me an ethernet address.  Do I
have to hand-wace magic to get a stack up on that interface?

If this isn't the right place for this, please let me know (I actually
rummaged around Reddit looking for a good forum there, but doesn't
look like /r/pdp11 is particularly active.

Looking forward to workoing with folks!

 -d

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[Simh] PDP-11 -- MFPI, etc, with memory mgmt off

[dave porter]

I hope you'll excuse a non-SIMH question on this list.

Over in the retrocomputing forum on Stack Exchange,
I'm involved in a conversation that says that the 
11/73 move to/from previous-mode space instructions

MTPI, MTPD, MFPI, MFPD, will, when the MMU is
not enabled, use the previous-mode bits from the
PS directly as bits 16,17 of the physical address.

I've never heard of such a thing and I cannot find
anything written that really says what these 
instructions do when running unmapped.


Anyone know about this?  (Mr. Supnik?)

If I shouldn't have asked this non-SIMH question
on this list, just say so and I won't do it again.
Thanks.


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[Simh] software guy needs translation

[dave porter]

Recent list discussion of possible VAX spec-execution
vulnerability has mentioned "IBM AGS".  My attempts
at googling that have come up null.  Would someone
expand the initialism, give me a link, or whatever?

(I have heard of ACS/1 and/or ACS/360)

Thanks
dave

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Re: [Simh] dec windows with simh

[Dave Wade]

Gérard,

It depends on how you want to present the windows on your PC. It you want to 
use a separate X-Windows client and connect that to the emulated VAX then I 
think any SIMH emulation is fine.
On the other hand if you want a SIMH managed frame buffer or display then I 
think that as some one else mentioned the MicroVAX II includes a frame buffer 
and you can run it all from one executable.
The key lines in the ".ini" file are:-

set qdss capture
set qdss enable

I also issue a 

attach dz0 77

which lets me use a telnet session as a separate VT102 type console.

Dave


> -Original Message-
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of gérard Calliet
> Sent: 26 July 2019 07:53
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] dec windows with simh
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have used for a long time the simh emulation of microvax 3900. I need now
> to install and run DEC Windows on it.
> 
> Do you think it is possible? And is there a better simh VAX model for that?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gérard Calliet
> 
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Re: [Simh] VAX networking issue

[Dave L]

Is the virtual NIC presented to the VM set to be in promiscuous mode on  
the Ubuntu host?


Believe it would need to be for this to work, tho I could be wrong as i  
don't run on *nix, but on winwoes VM's I've used the VM NICs that way and  
things work.


HTH


On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 21:52:35 +0100, Zane Healy   
wrote:


I have a SIMH/VAX install that was on a Raspberry Pi2 until we had a  
power outage, now the RPi won’t recognize the SD card.  So I’m trying to  
migrate it to a VM (Ubuntu 16.04LTS).  It doesn’t seem to find the  
network.  I’m able to SSH to the host VM, so I know it’s on the  
network.  I’ve tried both the SIMH available for Ubuntu (v3.8), and  
current.  Of course this is the host with the Quorum disk for my Cluster.


*** vax Simulator being built with:
*** - compiler optimizations and no debugging support. GCC Version:  
5.4.0.

*** - dynamic networking support using Linux provided libpcap components.
*** - Local LAN packet transports: PCAP TAP NAT(SLiRP)
*** - Per simulator tests will be run.
***
*** git commit id is 53ad66f57ebdec051d3345d5957a69707ddc3e32.
*** git commit time is 2019-06-04T00:02:17-07:00.


XQ  address=20001920-2000192F, no vector, BR4, MAC=AA:00:04:00:95:F2
type=DELQA-T, mode=DELQA, polling=disabled, sanity=OFF
throttle=disabled, DEQNALock=OFF, leds=(ON,ON,ON)

%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SYSDUMP.DMP on System Disk successfully mapped
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SAVEDUMP parameter not set to protect the PAGEFILE.SYS
   OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version V7.3 Major version id = 1 Minor version  
id = 0

%WBM-I-WBMINFO Write Bitmap has successfully completed initialization.
%CNXMAN,  using remote access method for quorum disk
%VAXcluster-I-LOADSECDB, loading the cluster security database
%SYSINIT, waiting to form or join a VMScluster system
%MSCPLOAD-I-LOADMSCP, loading the MSCP disk server
%TMSCPLOAD-I-LOADTMSCP, loading the TMSCP tape server
%CNXMAN,  using local access method for quorum disk
%CNXMAN,  established "connection" to quorum disk
%CNXMAN,  have "connection" to quorum disk

Checking another system in my cluster, the hosts status still shows as  
BRK_NON.


I took the same backup over to a physical box (Ubuntu 16.04LTS), and it  
works just fine.  There also doesn’t appear to be any firewall in play.


I’m probably missing something obvious, any thoughts?

Zane



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Re: [Simh] More VAX Simulators

[Dave Wade]

Ray,

That’s about what it takes on a real VLC. Its so slow. I just burn to an ISO.

Dave

 

From: Simh  On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst
Sent: 04 May 2019 04:05
To: Stafford Winters 
Cc: simh 
Subject: Re: [Simh] More VAX Simulators

 

I finally figured it out by setting console speed=300 on the simulator.  It is 
quite slow (takes about half an hour) but it works! ;-)

 

Thank you everyone for your advice,

 

Ray

 

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 11:02 PM Stafford Winters mailto:stafford.wint...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The VTstar terminal emulator (for Windows and free) has some settings in the 
Options, Preferences menu, in the Timing button dialog.  I think you can 
probably work out the problem using that.

On 5/2/2019 5:36 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:

I tried doing a VMS 7.3 CD install on the 4000/60 and it went swimmingly until 
I tried to install the PAKs and I got this:

 

$! 
$!HPE HOBBY LICENSE AGREEMENT
$!   
%CREATE-E-READERR, error reading SYS$INPUT:.;
-RMS-F-RER, file read error
-SYSTEM-W-DATAOVERUN, data overrun

 

I am running 72 Megs and I do not get this error on 3900 or MicroVAX II.  I 
know there is another way to copy the PAKs over using an iso but the 
instructions in the Hobbyist letter seemed kind of fuzzy to me.  Am I doing 
anything wrong or is the the way a 4000/60 should behave?

 

Thanks

 

Ray

 

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 6:16 PM Matt Burke mailto:m...@9track.net> > wrote:

On 01/05/2019 13:36, m...@wickensonline.co.uk <mailto:m...@wickensonline.co.uk> 
 wrote:
> Matt
>
> I've built the VAXstation 4000/60 and 4000/VLC images. Is it possible to post 
> an example simh.ini file for either or both of these please, it would save me 
> some considerable guesswork!
>
> I have just reconfigured a FreeAXP emulator running on Windows which contains 
> SLAVE, formerly an AlphaServer 1000A. It serves up a cluster member disk for 
> a 4000/VLC so that will be a great test of your new systems.
>
> I previously had lots of trouble with FreeAXP and SIMH residing on the same 
> windows box, turns out that FreeAXP really doesn't like WinPCap - it crashes 
> on startup and it is very difficult to kill the image.
>
> Regards, Mark.
>
Hi Mark,

The first thing to note (if you haven't spotted it already) is that the
simulators have been merged into the Simh master branch and a number of
fixes have been applied. CD-ROM and tape drive support is now included
along with fixes to the memory sizing for the M60 and VLC.


The VAXstation 4000/60 and 4000/VLC are very similar so this simh.ini
will work for both:

; Set system memory size
;   M60 can be one of 8m, 16m, 24m, 32m, 40m, 48m, 56m, 72m, 80m, 104m
;   VLC can be one of 8m, 16m, 24m
;
set cpu 24m
;
; Attach the NVRAM device
;
attach nvr vaxstation4000.nvr
;
; Set the MAC address in the network address ROM
; This will need to match whatever your boot server is expecting
;
set nar mac=08:00:2b:40:00:60
;
; Setup local SCSI disks if required (here are a few examples)
; Also try 'help rz'
;
; set rz0 rz26
; attach rz0 disk0.img
; set rz1 disable
; set rz2 disable
; set rz3 disable
; set rz4 rrd40
; attach rz4 vms73.iso
; set rz5 tz30
; attach rz5 backup.tap
; rz6 is always disabled because this is the initiator SCSI ID
; set rz7 disable
;
; Enable LANCE Ethernet (device ESA0 under VMS)
;
set xs enable
;
; Attach Ethernet device to a host interface
;
attach xs eth0
;
; Start the simulator
;
boot cpu

The first time the ROM self-test runs after the memory size is changed
or after attaching a new NVRAM file it will perform a thorough memory
test. This can take quite a long time especially with 104MB. You will
see multiple selftest failures but don't worry about it, they're
expected for now. After the self-test completes I would recommend
enabling the fast boot option:

>>> SET FBOOT 1

This will significantly speed up subsequent restarts of the simulator.
Eventually I'll patch the ROM to skip the memory tests.

Assuming your boot server is all setup you can now boot from the Ethernet:

>>> BOOT ESA0

I haven't tested Ethernet booting on these simulators for quite some
time so I hope it works!

Let me know how it goes.

Matt

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Re: [Simh] More VAX Simulators

[Dave Wade]

This is a common problem. Usually one has to slow the terminal down at the 
terminal end, but I guess this isn’t possible with an integrated terminal…

 

Dave

 

From: Simh  On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst
Sent: 03 May 2019 02:25
To: Stafford Winters 
Cc: simh 
Subject: Re: [Simh] More VAX Simulators

 

That didn't work either, someone previously suggested I try /hostsync so I 
tried that along with altypahd too to no avail.

 

Thanks

 

Ray

 

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:07 PM Stafford Winters mailto:stafford.wint...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I seem to recall a setting on physical terminals which limited the rate at 
which keystrokes were sent to the computer.  This may be a factor.

It appears as if your input includes carriage returns, and it needs to.

It may be that turning on the altypahd terminal setting may allow a greater 
stream of input before choking.  It may work for you.

On 5/2/2019 5:36 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:

I tried doing a VMS 7.3 CD install on the 4000/60 and it went swimmingly until 
I tried to install the PAKs and I got this:

 

$! 
$!HPE HOBBY LICENSE AGREEMENT
$!   
%CREATE-E-READERR, error reading SYS$INPUT:.;
-RMS-F-RER, file read error
-SYSTEM-W-DATAOVERUN, data overrun

 

I am running 72 Megs and I do not get this error on 3900 or MicroVAX II.  I 
know there is another way to copy the PAKs over using an iso but the 
instructions in the Hobbyist letter seemed kind of fuzzy to me.  Am I doing 
anything wrong or is the the way a 4000/60 should behave?

 

Thanks

 

Ray

 

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 6:16 PM Matt Burke mailto:m...@9track.net> > wrote:

On 01/05/2019 13:36, m...@wickensonline.co.uk <mailto:m...@wickensonline.co.uk> 
 wrote:
> Matt
>
> I've built the VAXstation 4000/60 and 4000/VLC images. Is it possible to post 
> an example simh.ini file for either or both of these please, it would save me 
> some considerable guesswork!
>
> I have just reconfigured a FreeAXP emulator running on Windows which contains 
> SLAVE, formerly an AlphaServer 1000A. It serves up a cluster member disk for 
> a 4000/VLC so that will be a great test of your new systems.
>
> I previously had lots of trouble with FreeAXP and SIMH residing on the same 
> windows box, turns out that FreeAXP really doesn't like WinPCap - it crashes 
> on startup and it is very difficult to kill the image.
>
> Regards, Mark.
>
Hi Mark,

The first thing to note (if you haven't spotted it already) is that the
simulators have been merged into the Simh master branch and a number of
fixes have been applied. CD-ROM and tape drive support is now included
along with fixes to the memory sizing for the M60 and VLC.


The VAXstation 4000/60 and 4000/VLC are very similar so this simh.ini
will work for both:

; Set system memory size
;   M60 can be one of 8m, 16m, 24m, 32m, 40m, 48m, 56m, 72m, 80m, 104m
;   VLC can be one of 8m, 16m, 24m
;
set cpu 24m
;
; Attach the NVRAM device
;
attach nvr vaxstation4000.nvr
;
; Set the MAC address in the network address ROM
; This will need to match whatever your boot server is expecting
;
set nar mac=08:00:2b:40:00:60
;
; Setup local SCSI disks if required (here are a few examples)
; Also try 'help rz'
;
; set rz0 rz26
; attach rz0 disk0.img
; set rz1 disable
; set rz2 disable
; set rz3 disable
; set rz4 rrd40
; attach rz4 vms73.iso
; set rz5 tz30
; attach rz5 backup.tap
; rz6 is always disabled because this is the initiator SCSI ID
; set rz7 disable
;
; Enable LANCE Ethernet (device ESA0 under VMS)
;
set xs enable
;
; Attach Ethernet device to a host interface
;
attach xs eth0
;
; Start the simulator
;
boot cpu

The first time the ROM self-test runs after the memory size is changed
or after attaching a new NVRAM file it will perform a thorough memory
test. This can take quite a long time especially with 104MB. You will
see multiple selftest failures but don't worry about it, they're
expected for now. After the self-test completes I would recommend
enabling the fast boot option:

>>> SET FBOOT 1

This will significantly speed up subsequent restarts of the simulator.
Eventually I'll patch the ROM to skip the memory tests.

Assuming your boot server is all setup you can now boot from the Ethernet:

>>> BOOT ESA0

I haven't tested Ethernet booting on these simulators for quite some
time so I hope it works!

Let me know how it goes.

Matt

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Re: [Simh] VCB02 Released

[Dave Wade]

I have been run DEC windows on a Vax Station VLC and was very surprised to see 
how well it performed.
I have run a few games, and a few PGPLOT test programs. I will try the same on 
thus

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh  On Behalf Of Zane Healy
> Sent: 06 April 2019 21:41
> To: Matt Burke 
> Cc: Simh Trailing-Edge Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VCB02 Released
> 
> This is really good news, thank you.  This is something I’ve been wanting to
> play with.  I’ve used DECwindows quite a bit on my Alpha’s, but never on my
> VAXen.  I have (at least I think I still have it), a VAXstation II/RC with the
> monochrome monitor, but never got VMS going on it, as I ended up with a
> MicroVAX II, and then quickly a VAXstation 3100.
> 
> There are some VAX/VMS 5.5-2 era things that I want to give a try.
> 
> Zane
> 
> 
> 
> > On Apr 6, 2019, at 10:03 AM, Matt Burke  wrote:
> >
> > The long awaited VCB02 (colour graphics adapter) for VAX has now been
> > released. It hasn't been merged into the Simh master branch yet but
> > for now you can get the code from:
> >
> > https://github.com/9track/simh/tree/VCB02
> >
> > If you need a Windows executable then that's available here:
> >
> > http://www.9track.net/simh/vax630
> >
> > Here is the current status for the graphical environments that I've tested:
> >
> > DECwindows - All OK as far as I can tell.
> > VWS - Works but leaves trails on the screen if you drag a window.
> > UWS - Works but certain visual elements such as window icons are
> > missing. Also I'm not sure the colours a are quite right. I will have
> > to test this on a real VAX to check.
> >
> > Only captured input mode is currently supported. This must be set
> > before enabling the device.
> >
> > sim> set qdss capture
> > sim> set qdss enabled
> >
> > The VCB02 has only been added to the MicroVAX II simulator so far
> > (VAXstation II/GPX). I know there have been some discussions
> > previously about the MicroVAX 3900 supporting the VCB02 though I've
> > not had success with that yet.
> >
> >
> > Matt
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Re: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator

[Dave L]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 20:16:19 -, Johnny Billquist   
wrote:




And then I have my possibly very sneaky alternative: TECO. TECO usually  
swallows and does the right thing for very many things, and if not, it's  
very easy to correct, and then let TECO write the file out, and you'll  
have a file with the right format and attributes.


   Johnny



ah I can never remember TECO now, but SOS has stuck with me from RSTS/E  
days, in VMS pretty much the same as EDT in line mode so I often revert  
there when I need to do anything fancy :-)


Came in well handy when I had to resolve an issue on a unix platform where  
some kind soul unset all the sticky bits. I just pulled the directory  
lists from that and an unharmed system over to VMS and manipulated there  
with DCL and "SOS" to generate the required NIX scripts to fix things back  
the way they needed to be. Yeah vi etc can do that too but I've far more  
experience on the VMS side so why risk screwing up on when doing a remote  
fix on a clients system ;-)

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Re: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator

[Dave L]

yeah true, variable with fixed headers, you're right there I remember that  
now, been a while :-)



On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 20:04:31 -, Johnny Billquist   
wrote:



Actually, VMS don't natively have any record terminators for text files.
So lines terminated by CR, LF, CR+LF or whatever, are all wrong.

The natural format is variable length records with implied CRLF. Which  
means that on the disk, the records are prefixed by a length, and no CR  
or LF are actually present at all.


But of course, such a format is not something a 9660 file system can  
have, so you'll instead have to tell VMS that the files on that CD  
should be interpreted as stream-lf, if they are in fact Unix text files.


Exactly how you get VMS to actually interpret the files on the CD that  
way though, I can't remember. Maybe there is some mount option?
Otherwise copy the files over to a normal disk, and then change the file  
attributes to be stream-lf.


   Johnny

On 2018-12-17 16:15, Dave L wrote:
Likely the issue is that the *nix system presents the text file as  
stream-LF format which VMS won't understand as a standard text file  
which it would expect to be CR-LF terminated records. VMS convert  
utility would be able to fix that as already mentioned, tho you may  
need to tell it what record format you want on the output file, can't  
recall now (or use an FDL to define the output file format).
 Alternatively you can just cut and paste from your host into the  
terminal session to get the initial licenses set up and go from there,  
either direct to the VMS prompt to action the commands or capture into  
a command file ("$ copy TT: license.com" might work, then ctrl/Z when  
finished).

 HTH
Dave
 On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 14:02:24 -, Brian   
wrote:



On 12/17/18 8:44 AM, Wilm Boerhout wrote:

Brian schreef op 17-12-2018 om 14:28

[snip]

I really don't want to have to enter all the licence data
interactively, or fix a couple of thousand line endings in the  
editor!

There must be SOME way of getting the file onto a new setup?

Thanks for any assistance,

Brian.


What usually works for me:

 * open the license command file  file in your mail program / in a
   notepad on your Linux host.
 * Open a TPU editor session on your OPA0 simh console terminal
 * Copy/Paste the License file text into the TPU editor window.

If you get buffer overflows on VMS, try it with just the TCP/IP
license (called UCX for hysterical reasons), then setup IP networking
and ftp on VMS.



OK, thanks, I'll give it a try later today and report back. If anybody
can tell me in simple terms, though, I would like to understand why
the route of going via an ISO didn't work. Is it not possible to
transfer text files to the VAX other than via cut-and-paste without
the line endings getting mangled?

Brian.
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[Simh] rms (no, not the FSFguy)

[dave porter]

Speaking as a long-time programmer on VMS, RMS VAR-CR wasn't half-bad for
programs that expected to be doing line-oriented I/O.  As long as you were
programming within some sort of "conventional" paradigm, all was fairly
rosy.  Well, as long as you abhorred abominations like Fortran carriage 
control.

It got very confusing when we admitted that there were other operating
systems and there were programming languages that were not called
MACRO or BLISS.


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Re: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator

[Dave L]

ahh good old ISAM, yeah I wrote something similar on a commodore pet  
system that I was tasked with writing a hospital lab data analysis suite  
for in the early 80s. It had the ability to random access the FDD's so it  
made sense to tag and allocate blocks rather than have to rewrite  
sequential access files for even a minor field change in a record. Would  
have run out of disk space to do that once you'd hit 50% on the data FDD  
as well as taking far too long. You'd make a specific call to acquire a  
random block and the OS would give you a block ID to use from free pool.  
You could then direct access that block ID and once the record was written  
update the index block you'd pre-allocated so you could go find it again  
later.


Was an "interesting" experience doing that right at the start of my  
programming career. Was written in basic on a 32KB machine and having to  
still fit the actual application into the same memory ( no overlays etc).  
Added fun was the graphic codes for the screen/form displays were  
different to what the printer needed so any time someone wanted to print  
the app would have to pull those codes in off FDD,  overlaying the screen  
ones and then revert once the print had completed. Not enough memory to  
hold both sets of codes.


I later went on to messing about writing a pascal compiler for the Acorn  
Atom (6502 CPU) I used to have, just for fun... after modding the mobo to  
carry 32KB ram and upping clock speeds, oh the good old days, long gone  
now its all surface mount and my eyes are not up to messing about at that  
level now :-(







One odd thing about IBM is that some of the access method mechanisms  
relied on hardware capabilities.  For ISAM files, you'd write the file  
data with key fields in each sector, and use the search for key match  
feature in the disk drives (to find the matching sector so long as you  
knew on which track to look).  That seems to be pretty unusual, though  
I've also seen it done by Electrologica in Holland in the mid 1960s.


paul


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Re: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator

[dave porter]

From: Paul Koning
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 12:40


That's odd, I thought that (on VMS) you didn't have any choice about using 
RMS.

Well, not unless doing raw block I/O.


That is how I recall it; it was RMS or else use ACP/XQIOP block I/O.

Stream is one of the formats supported by RMS, exactly as fixed and 
variable records
(with prefix length) are.  Actually, stream comes in three flavors, 
depending on
whether the record delimiter is LF, CR, or CR/LF.  RMS-11 also supports 
these, FWIW.


So unless license manager goes out of its way to enforce a particular 
record format
for its input files, I would think it "should just work", RMS should read 
the on-disk
format and deliver the records (lines) according to the encoding described 
by the file attributes.


Inasmuch as I correctly recall all these arcana, it *should* just work.  I'm 
guessing
that the problem we're discussing is that the RMS format and attribute 
fields are
not set correctly for the file's actual content; e.g., RMS thinks it's 
VAR-CR but there

are nevertheless embedded LFs.



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Re: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator

[Dave L]

the issue here tho is more that the license file is in fact a DCL script  
and not input into LMF itself, and DCL doesn't handle the stream-LF files  
it'll just barf on command line input too long...




On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:40:04 -, Paul Koning   
wrote:






On Dec 17, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Clem Cole  wrote:

The problem is the license manager code you are running into is  
expecting an RMS file, not a Stream I/O.  In the old days, the idea of  
'access methods' was the natural ways OS's did I/O and RMS was VMS's  
answer.   Since today's programmers tend to have grown up with  
C/C++/Java and stream I/O, you need to think in terms of a programming  
'Framework' that is inflicting some level structure on the file.  FWIW:  
Stream style I/O and the STREAM-LF file format was added to VMS to  
support VAX11/C, and normal programmers (correctly) started to avoid  
RMS (it was funny how quickly the compiler runtime teams abandoned RMS,  
but I digress).  But if the code was written assuming RMS (which was  
all VMS had for many years), the files need RMS.


That's odd, I thought that (on VMS) you didn't have any choice about  
using RMS.  Well, not unless doing raw block I/O.


Stream is one of the formats supported by RMS, exactly as fixed and  
variable records (with prefix length) are.  Actually, stream comes in  
three flavors, depending on whether the record delimiter is LF, CR, or  
CR/LF.  RMS-11 also supports these, FWIW.


So unless license manager goes out of its way to enforce a particular  
record format for its input files, I would think it "should just work",  
RMS should read the on-disk format and deliver the records (lines)  
according to the encoding described by the file attributes.


Finally, one suggestion was to transfer the file by cut & paste into a  
VMS editor; in that case the record format is chosen by the editor when  
creating the file, and the fact you're pasting from a Unix system is not  
a factor.


paul


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Re: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator

[dave porter]

From: Brian 
To: SIMH@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator


Maybe I've forgotten more about the VAX than I think. WHAT 
does it expect to see as a line terminator? 


Probably nothing. The 'natural' format would have been
RMS VAR-CR records (if I recall the terminology) where 
the line termination character is implicit rather than

being in the record data.

STREAM-LF may work, but I assume the trick is to get
the record-type for the file to match what you've put
in the file.


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Re: [Simh] Transferring the licence file to the VAX emulator

[Dave L]

Likely the issue is that the *nix system presents the text file as  
stream-LF format which VMS won't understand as a standard text file which  
it would expect to be CR-LF terminated records. VMS convert utility would  
be able to fix that as already mentioned, tho you may need to tell it what  
record format you want on the output file, can't recall now (or use an FDL  
to define the output file format).


Alternatively you can just cut and paste from your host into the terminal  
session to get the initial licenses set up and go from there, either  
direct to the VMS prompt to action the commands or capture into a command  
file ("$ copy TT: license.com" might work, then ctrl/Z when finished).


HTH
Dave

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 14:02:24 -, Brian  wrote:


On 12/17/18 8:44 AM, Wilm Boerhout wrote:

Brian schreef op 17-12-2018 om 14:28

[snip]

I really don't want to have to enter all the licence data
interactively, or fix a couple of thousand line endings in the editor!
There must be SOME way of getting the file onto a new setup?

Thanks for any assistance,

Brian.


What usually works for me:

 * open the license command file  file in your mail program / in a
   notepad on your Linux host.
 * Open a TPU editor session on your OPA0 simh console terminal
 * Copy/Paste the License file text into the TPU editor window.

If you get buffer overflows on VMS, try it with just the TCP/IP
license (called UCX for hysterical reasons), then setup IP networking
and ftp on VMS.



OK, thanks, I'll give it a try later today and report back. If anybody
can tell me in simple terms, though, I would like to understand why
the route of going via an ISO didn't work. Is it not possible to
transfer text files to the VAX other than via cut-and-paste without
the line endings getting mangled?

Brian.
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[Simh] DIV with odd R

[dave porter]

From: Paul Koning 
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-11 MUL / DIV Bug



Odd R for div is a strange thing to do.  I'm not sure what it
is supposed to do, the manuals are not at all clear.  What
do you believe is correct, and what document says so?


My 11/70 Processor Handbook (1976) says, tersely, "R must be even".


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[Simh] PDP-11 MARK

[dave porter]

Not really a simh question, but this might be an appropriate
bunch of people.  What actually used MARK on PDP-11?

I think I recall that some Fortran system (F4P?) used it,
but that's a vague feeling at most.

Certainly as a Macro-11 kernel-mode weenie, I never
felt the need.


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Re: [Simh] Cluster communications errors

[Dave L]

Hi Hunter

I run an ESXi host on a USDT system and use a USB3 LAN dongle to give me a  
seperate network for user/management traffic so I can use the onboard one  
for iSCSI. This was done following the artivle here:


https://www.virtuallyghetto.com/2016/03/working-usb-ethernet-adapter-nic-for-esxi.html

I note that that USB interface can be dropping packets all the time, not a  
big problem if the protocols can handle that and RDP etc suffers no real  
issues. But running something like TotalNetworkMonitor on a VM there you  
do see that there are up to 50% or so ping packets lost in its probes.


Could be that you are seeing a similar behaviour where the protocol  
doesn't handle lost packets too well...


regards
Dave



On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 03:15:34 +0100, Hunter Goatley  
 wrote:


Here's where we stand on our cluster communications errors: nothing we  
did worked. We tried different ports on the switch. We tried forcing  
1Gbps. >We tried forcing the port down to 10 Mbps. That actually seemed  
to help slightly, in that we only lost communications every 63 seconds  
or so, >instead of every 15--60 seconds. But it would lose and  
re-establish connection to the cluster every 63 seconds.


So I decided to try setting up and using a TAP device, just to see what  
would happen.


Using the dedicated Ethernet card, it made no difference. It still lost  
communications every 63 seconds.


When I say dedicated Ethernet card, I probably should have stated  
earlier that it's a USB -> Ethernet device plugged into the system. I  
don't know >what brand or model, but I can find out, if anyone wants to  
know.


So I decided to try tunneling through the "real" Ethernet port used by  
the Linux system. After figuring out what to do for the missing tunctl  
command >under CentOS, I was able to set up a tunnel, and I did "attach  
xq tap:tap0". I then booted the system and wonder of wonders, miracle of  
miracles, it >was seven minutes into the boot (yes, it takes a long  
time, mounting a slew of disks that needed to be rebuilt) before it lost  
communications. But it re->established them immediately, and as of my  
typing this, it was been twenty-nine minutes since that happened. No  
further drops. Normally, I wouldn't >think twenty-nine minutes is enough  
to prove anything, but when it was dropping every 15--63 seconds for two  
solid days, this sounds like a fix to >me.


So what does it mean? One thing it suggests is that the USB Ethernet  
device may be buggy or bad. I mean, it seems to work OK for TCP/IP  
>communications, etc, but it sure sounds like it may be the part  
responsible for the problems. Especially since tunneling through the  
built-in Ethernet >card seems to work and tunneling through the USB  
device did not.


These are the commands I used to set up the tap device for CentOS:

brctl addbr br0
ifconfig eno1 0.0.0.0  ; eno1 is the host's Ethernet device
ifconfig br0 XXX.XX.XX.XX up   ; the IP address of the host system
brctl addif br0 eno1
brctl setfd br0 0
#tunctl -t tap0
ip tuntap add tap0 mode tap; Replacement for tunctl on CentOS 7
brctl addif br0 tap0
ifconfig tap0 up

I then just did "xq attach tap:tap0" in the init file. I guess I should  
set up a special MAC address, but I haven't yet, and so far, nothing  
seems amiss.


While I thought having a dedicated Ethernet device would be the simplest  
thing, I can live with tunneling it through the shared Ethernet device,  
>especially since it works and the former does not. ;-)


Thank you for all of your input over the past couple of days, and thank  
you for all of your work on SIMH!


Hunter





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Re: [Simh] Cluster communications errors

[Dave Wade]

Hunter,

Is it set to Autosense Speed and Duplex? Is it getting confused? Can it be set 
to a fixed speed.

Dave

 

From: Simh  On Behalf Of Hunter Goatley
Sent: 18 July 2018 16:58
To: Simh 
Subject: Re: [Simh] Cluster communications errors

 

My mistake. I'm not running V4.0, I'm running V3.10-0 RC1.

After posting, it dawned on me that I should have tried SIMH V3.9.0, but it 
fails to boot:

(BOOT/R5:0 DUA0
 
 
 
  2..
-DUA0
  1..0..
 
HALT instruction, PC: 4C02 (HALT)
sim>

I'm not sure why. I'm using the KA655x.bin that came with V3.9.0 and a new 
nvram.bin file, but everything else is the same as the V3.10-0 RC1 instance.

I just downloaded the current GitHub sources and compiled them ( 
<https://github.com/simh/simh/commit/15fd71b97c8aaec29dc1bbbd3473c3f0d582c9ff> 
15fd71b). It boots, but I see the same behavior of losing connection to the 
cluster.

I also should have mentioned that this dedicated Ethernet card is plugged into 
the same switch as all of the other cluster members, so that shouldn't be an 
issue.

Thanks.

Hunter

 
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Re: [Simh] dhcp client for openvms 7.2 (hobbyist cd)?

[Dave L]

to determine the version do

$ tcpip sho ver

as to being a DHCP client, can't recall but I've never done this on any  
system I've worked on, VMS usually is sat at a fixed IP and may be a DHCP  
server (in a cluster its far better for resilience than winwoes efforts at  
handling this part).


HTH

On Thu, 07 Jun 2018 18:38:46 +0100, Ron Young  wrote:


Hi:

Is it possible to config the hobbyist version of openvms (7.2)
vax to be a dhcp client for tcp/ip.

I have been using my vms install for years with a static IP
without problems.

Looking on the net, it looks like I should be able to do this
if tcpip is version 5.3 or newer. This references a binary
called tcpip$dhcp_client.exe. This file is not on my system.

how do I determine what version of tcpip services am I running?

is it possible to configure dhcp client on the hobbyist system?

thanks

-ron

===
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Re: [Simh] tcpip problem Johnny

[Dave L]

Hi Phil

not used linux for emulated vax/alpha myself but there are some things you  
need to set up for the emulator so that you have raw/promiscuous access to  
the assigned NIC's at non-root level. Info here and in their UG's might  
point you in the right direction: http://www.emuvm.com/faq.php#tag37


I have run both simH and various alpha emulators on VMware, HyperV and  
windows and not had issues connecting, but then the emulators have always  
been assigned seperate NIC's (real/emulated) with raw mode, currently have  
a 2-node AXP running in a win10 VM with shared storage etc. You may/not  
need to assign a MAC to the assigned NIC, tho that can also create issues,  
where it'll work first boot and then a reboot later it doesn't, so I  
typically do not do this.


HTH



On Sat, 19 May 2018 05:41:14 +0100, Phil King  wrote:

I was going to ask about how to get past that. I do have 7 network  
connections in this pc so the host and the vax are not on the same  
>wire. If you have any thoughts i would love to here them

Phil

Philip King 4681 Carr Rd Hillsboro Ohio 45121 9374421909 pr...@yahoo.com


On Friday, May 18, 2018, 12:00:20 PM EDT, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com  
 wrote:


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Today's Topics:

 1. Re:  tcpip problem (Johnny Billquist)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 18:55:03 +0200
From: Johnny Billquist 
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] tcpip problem
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 2018-05-17 06:47, Phil King wrote:
tried to telnet in from a terminal on the same computer my vax is 
running and it is not working so you are correct i have an ip problem  i 
have to do something thin wtih the router and some reconfig in the vax 
to the end of my ability after that i will try to ask for help thanks 
all for your help you are all good people


Um. I would not be surprised if you just observe the problem others have 
mentioned in the past. It is not uncommon for the host system to not be 
able to communicate with the virtual machine, as the outgoing ethernet 
packets are not been received. A switch will normally not help you, as 
both hosts are on the same ethernet cable, and switches do not reflect 
packets back on the port they come from. Routers might be more clever, 
but it's not a given. But basically, your problem have a high chance of 
being a problem of being able to communicate between two machines that 
use the same physical ethernet interface.


 Johnny

--Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
 ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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End of Simh Digest, Vol 172, Issue 34
*




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Re: [Simh] VMware "internal network" and VAX mop frames

[Dave L]

Have you tried not setting a MAC address on the VMware NIC/switches? Which  
NIC type are you presenting to the VM. E1000 is probably the best option  
tho VMXNET3 should work too once VMware tools is loaded (E1000 you can get  
away without or survive if tools dies for any reason).


On the Alpha side are you running the appropriate PCAP driver on the host  
OS, winwoes not interfering by applying any of its protocols on the NIC  
and also have the VM switch/ports to accept promiscuos+MAC change+forged  
transmits?


Not sure if this guide will help:
http://www.migrationspecialties.com/pdf/VirtualAlpha_UserGuide.pdf



On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 14:57:42 -, Paul Koning   
wrote:






On Feb 21, 2018, at 9:08 AM, Timothe Litt  wrote:

I can't think of anything that would fail if the ROM address is the  
same as the DECnet address (which is what you're setting up), but no  
real hardware could ever have been configured that way.  (It is  
possible for software to obtain both, though only one goes on the  
wire.  One set by software overrides the ROM, which is globally unique.)


Most of the later DEC NICs support multiple MAC addresses, with the ROM  
address as the default.  On such NICs, MOP and LAT (and possibly other  
protocols) use the ROM address, while DECnet Phase IV would use the  
HIORD style address.  A few older NICs, for example the DEUNA, don't  
have this capability and for those the MAC address changes for everyone  
as soon as you turn on DECnet.



...
I'm not a VMware user, so they may use different terminology than the  
following.


So VMware would need to understand that a MAC address can be changed -  
more recent OSs don't set the MAC address, so it could be confused.  I  
wouldn't be surprised if it acted like a switch & tried to filter  
"unneeded" packets.


That's definitely a possible issue.  Another possibility is that  
multicast isn't supported properly.  All NICs support broadcast, because  
otherwise IP would not work, but multicast is not so commonly used.   
DECnet uses it everywhere, though, and requires it to be there.


I remember some discussions about trouble if you use a wireless LAN as  
opposed to a wired NIC, but I don't remember any details.


paul


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Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 169, Issue 66

[dave porter]

From: "Tim Stark" 



Does anyone know any documentation provides some information about MOP
header in SYS files?


As a one-time implementor of MOP under DECnet/OSI on VMS, there's no such
thing as far as I am aware.

The MOP server reads normal image files (i.e., as output by the linker or 
whatever).
The choice of what image files to support is left to the system implementer 
based
on what target systems he expects to load - e.g., if you want to load 
systems that
are generally built on Ultrix, you'd better learn how to read Ultrix image 
files, even

if you're VMS.

Wire formats are defined in the DNA spec for MOP, of course.

Any more background about what you're looking at?


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Re: [Simh] VMware "internal network" and VAX mop frames

[Dave L]

Do you have the relevant NICs set in promiscuous mode?



On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:58:16 -, gérard Calliet  
 wrote:



Hello,

It's not specifically a simh question, but I hope someone had experience  
about the issue.


I have a VAX VMS on a SIMH on a Windows VMware instance which uses a  
dedicated NIC for simh.


I have an OpenVMS on an AlphaVM emulator on another Windows VMware  
instance (on the same VMware server) which uses another dedicated NIC  
for the emulator.


(The dedicated NIC have no associated protocol (for example ip) ).

I try a network boot from vax vms simh, which could be served by the  
emulated OpenVMS alpha emulated. I can see the mop broadcasted frames on  
the wire, outside on the VMware server, but they don't arrive at the NIC  
at the host instance of the alpha emulation.


I think something is filtered out inside the VMware server between its  
instances. I don't know more.


Thanks,

Gérard Calliet


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[Simh] Memories are made of this ...

[dave porter]

From: Johnny Billquist 
And an even stronger curmudgeon warning here then.


According to the terminology I (another curmudgeon) grew
up on and still use, you're conflating virtual addressing and
virtual memory.

Virtual addressing is where each job/task/process/etc gets
its own address space. This can be implemented by something
as simple as datum and limit registers.  The benefits include
mutual protection and the ability to link independently of
the eventual load address.

(i.e., the addresses are virtualized, the addressed storage
 is not)

Virtual memory is where not all of a virtual address space
is necessarily backed by storage directly addressable by
the processor, at any given point in time. The benefits
include more efficient use of physical memory and the
ability (given enough address bits) to have an address
space exceeding physical limits, without burdening the
app programmer with managing the migration.

(i.e., the addressed storage is itself virtualized)


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Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 169, Issue 55

[dave porter]

With respect to:


"VM is a mechanism to automatically manage
overlays" is an over-simplification.


I think Atlas gets to provide the prime motivation
here, and that was to transparently manage 
the migration of pages between core (16KW)

and drum.  This is surely automatic overlay
management.

http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/acl/pdfs/atlas-1-level.pdf



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Re: [Simh] PDP for beginners

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Pär
> Moberg
> Sent: 03 February 2018 02:26
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] PDP for beginners
> 
> I am looking to put up a PDP-# machine to play with. What machine and OS
> should I use. I am looking for simple/beginner system, or as beginner it got.

I think I would start with a PDP-8. NO telnet terminal. Simple OS, lots of 
software and support. If you want blinken lights try one of these:-

http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-8-get-one

its SIMH with a nice panel

> Also, not *nix, it is still alive and therefore boring.
> Telnet terminals would be awesome but not necessary.
> //Pär (or Paer)
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Re: [Simh] Crowther's Adventure game

[Dave L]

Been a long time since I wrote fortran but IIRC the first character on the  
output line was to perform carriage-control of the LPT, so you'd have to  
always have a leading pad character such as a space in order to get the  
output lines to be correct. Some characters were reserved actions, 1 = FF  
from memory. I've not looked at the code involved but that'd be my first  
thoughts


HTH
Dave


On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 08:22:31 -, Lars Brinkhoff <l...@nocrew.org> wrote:


Hello,

Some time ago, an old version of the Adventure game was found.
According to Woods, the March 11 files are the originals from Crowther.

https://jerz.setonhill.edu/intfic/colossal-cave-adventure-source-code/

Maybe this is of come historical interest, and could be part of the SIMH
games kits.  This version builds without modifications with the DEC F40
compiler.  I tested this in ITS.  Credits to the person who provided
build instructions on YouTube!

Unfortunately, there's a problem: All lines output by the program are
missing the very first character.  I tried to look at the file input
code, and the SPEAK subroutine, but I'm not well versed in FORTRAN IV.
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Re: [Simh] BLISS and C

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Phil
> Budne
> Sent: 30 January 2018 00:17
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] BLISS and C
> 
> > I also think that Dave was asking for a B compiler, and not a BCPL 
> > compiler...
> 

Yes

> Amongst the PDP-7 UNIX files was a B runtime, which someone on the team
> was able to decipher well enough to write a B compiler in a C
> subset:
> 
> https://github.com/DoctorWkt/pdp7-unix/blob/master/tools/b.c
> 
> And then make self-hosting, in:
> https://github.com/DoctorWkt/pdp7-unix/tree/master/src/other
> 
> ISTR, the compiler generates something like more threaded code, as
> opposed native instructions, but the output is fed to the assembler (along
> with runtime source) to make an executable.
> 

Sounds like an interesting project... 

> A paper I first saw VERY recently describes Thompson bringing up the B
> interpreter on the CPU of a Merganthaller phototypsetter (since the vendor
> supplied S/W was too limited for them to use).
> 
> Ah:
> https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~bwk/202/summer.scanned.pdf
> document p8 (pdf p9)
> 
> ... KLT resurected the B interpreter.  B is a good language for a
> 16-bit word-oriented minicomputer, and most of our subsequent 202
> programs have been written in B.
> ___

I will have a look at that

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[Simh] Bliss versus C

[dave porter]

Clem Cole wrote:


Hmmm.. to be honest this sound nice but I suspect it is more like
legend/wishful thinking than something Dennis would have said.


I'm pretty sure I read this in something actually written
by Ritchie, though since I can't come up with the source,
it's possible I'm suffering from uncorrectable memory errors.


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Re: [Simh] BLISS and C

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Eager
> Sent: 29 January 2018 22:08
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] BLISS and C
> 
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:05:01 -0500
> Clem Cole <cl...@ccc.com> wrote:
> 
> > One can argue, why did Ken not just build something more like BCPL
> > instead of B?  I can not say, maybe the brevity of { } from PL/1 was
> > more attractive than the Algol BEGIN/END style?
> 
> BCPL was, in any case, using $( $) and (later) { }. It never used BEGIN/END.
> 

The "B" compiler I used on the Honeywell L6000/L66 used { }.

> And the major drawback of BCPL (which I love) was that it was word
> oriented. Most machine architectures were not (OK, PDP-10...) One had to
> use contortions, and a special % operator, to access bytes efficiently.
> 

"B" is similar, characters were accessed by functions rather than a special 
operator, but you can, I think use a combination of shifts and logical 
operators
... those familiar with BCPL or C who have not encountered B may find the 
manual here interesting...

https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/bref.html

it would be nice to find a working compiler for a word based machine...

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[Simh] BLISS and C

[dave porter]

I recall reading something from Dennis Ritchie to the effect
that if he'd been able to get hold of a BLISS compiler he
wouldn't have bothered to invent C.  But DEC held on to
its compilers tightly.

-dave

The poet Wordsworth on systems programming:

“Bliss it was in that dawn to be alive
 But to be young was very heaven.”

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Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 168, Issue 1

[Dave Wade]

Bob,

The HECNET group, or the dec tec (http://dectec.info/) or even the usenet
news groups might be better places to ask.

Dave

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Larry Baker
Sent: 07 January 2018 00:51
To: Bob Supnik <b...@supnik.org>
Cc: simh <simh@trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 168, Issue 1

 

Bob,

 

I don't think we ever bought a source kit license.  I do remember VMS used
to come with source fiche.  That's a different beast, yes?  I'm not even
sure I have those any more.

 

Alan Frisbie is a good person to ask.  He's a pack rat. :)

 

Larry Baker
US Geological Survey
650-329-5608
ba...@usgs.gov <mailto:ba...@usgs.gov> 





 

On 6 Jan 2018, at 9:00:01 AM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com
<mailto:simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com>  wrote:

 

--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 20:53:21 -0500
From: Bob Supnik < <mailto:b...@supnik.org> b...@supnik.org>
To: " <mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com> simh@trailing-edge.com" <
<mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com> simh@trailing-edge.com>
Subject: [Simh] VMS Source Kit end user license agreement
Message-ID: < <mailto:2d535db5-466d-eca5-0360-5df9f9dc2...@supnik.org>
2d535db5-466d-eca5-0360-5df9f9dc2...@supnik.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Does anyone on the mailing list have the end-user license that went with 
a VMS source kit? I have a kit, but I no longer have the license 
document that came with it.

The VMS group would like to get a copy of the license agreement, as 
apparently HP can't find the original master.

Thanks,

/Bob SUpnik




 

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Re: [Simh] C9.io

[Dave L]

opening any port on your firewall/edge router would make your IP open to  
probes tho, and you'd have to be sure the host you expose is secure so  
that other systems on your internal net isn't at risk. I guess you could  
place your host and guest on a separate vlan and place that into the DMZ  
with rules to allow internal to DMZ access to limit exposure.


Also make sure your router/firewall passwords are strong and not  
manageable from the DMZ. Dynamic DNS would mean you don't have to acquire  
a fixed external IP so you can then access via a DNS name rather than IP  
too.


Alternatively, make access via VPN only possibly with some of the above  
and not expose any open ports so you stay as invisible as possible on the  
web side...


hth
Dave



On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 22:07:17 -, Dan Gahlinger <dgahl...@hotmail.com>  
wrote:



a pi would do it.
and it's not opening it up
you open to just one port to just that pi
for just the pps

electric cost of a pi is peanuts.

cloud would cost you orders of magnitude more.

hell I run my own servers domain cloud etc



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


 Original message 
From: Joseph Oprysko <joprys...@gmail.com>Date: 2017-12-01 2:37 PM  
(GMT-05:00)To: Dan Gahlinger <dgahl...@hotmail.com>Cc: Ray Jewhurst  
<raywjewhu...@gmail.com>, simh <simh@trailing-edge.com>Subject: Re:  
[Simh] C9.io
Dan, it is easy peasy, but not quite free, as if you want 24/7 access to  
the box, you have to keep the system running 24-7, so electricity costs.  
Plus, I’m >planning on having others log in as well, thus I don’t want  
to open up my network like that. That’s why I’m looking for a free  
hosted/Cloud solution. >That way someone else can deal with the rest of  
the network security. I do enough of that for work anyway, don’t want to  
have to monitor my home >network as thoroughly.
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 1:12 PM Dan Gahlinger <dgahl...@hotmail.com>  
wrote:

A Linux box running simh bridged with nat
Easy peasy and free

Get Outlook for iOS
From: Simh <simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com> on behalf of Joseph Oprysko  
<joprys...@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 1:09:37 PM
To: Ray Jewhurst
Cc: simh
Subject: Re: [Simh] C9.ioWell, running from inside a house and making  
accessible from the outside is easy. But most ot my computers at home  
generally don’t run 24/7.
Mainly what’s needed for what we both want to be able to do isn’t  
really a shell account on a shared machine, but literally a dedicated  
VM instance, >>but we need to be able to access that instance through a  
public IP address.


On a home network, a private IP Address (192.168.x.x, 172.x.x.x  
‘actually I don’t think it’s the whole 172 network’, or a 10.x.x.x)  
it’s easy enough to >>setup port forwarding to make it accessible. But  
on the Cloud based VM’s, I don’t know if there is a way to do it. Well,  
I know there ARE ways, >>usually involves paying for the instance, an  
external address, and possibly the amount of traffic.
Actually, I know Bluehost (is it still a thing?) used to  give you a VM  
with public address in combination with their hosting/domain name  
service.  >>But I’m hoping to find one that will not cost me anything.
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 12:21 PM Ray Jewhurst <raywjewhu...@gmail.com>  
wrote:
I have been trying to figure out a solution for something similar to  
that. I want to be able to run a PDP-11 outside of my house for  
Fortran >>>development. I would be running it on my Android phone.

On Dec 1, 2017 12:11 PM, "Joseph Oprysko" <joprys...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone know if I can use the Cloud9 IDE to host a simh System  
emulation?


I know I’m able to build and execute it in the environment, but what  
I’d really like to achieve is to have a system (or several) running  
on various >>>>instances. And be able to connect to them from an  
external IP address, I believe I am able to SSH into an instance, or  
access it through the web >>>>based IDE.
An example might be better. Say I setup an HP system running  
Time-Share Basic. Would I be able to telnet to the TSB instance from  
various >>>>computers?


Thank you,

Joe

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Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a  
lot...

Geek: I think t

Re: [Simh] Fwd: [TUHS] An abandoned piece of K C

[Dave Wade]

I can’t see the original context, but he presented at a VCF festival at InfoAge 
Wall, New Jersey..

http://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-museum/

so the folks there must have a contact..

 

Dave

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Leo Broukhis
Sent: 10 November 2017 07:49
To: Larry Stewart <l.s...@stewart.org>
Cc: SIMH <simh@trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] Fwd: [TUHS] An abandoned piece of K C

 

On the StackExchange page https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/q/4965/4025

 

I got a comment: Re: the Ken Thompson addition and, therefore, the idea of 
asking the people that were actually there; Kernighan remains an employee of 
Google and can sometimes be spotted at the NYC office. Sadly I recently left 
but if anybody else here is a Googler then the usual internal means might allow 
a query to be put if appropriate respect is applied. I attended a presentation 
he gave while I was there and he seems like a very approachable fellow.

 

Can anyone contact Mr. Kernighan?

 

Thanks,

Leo

 

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Leo Broukhis <l...@mailcom.com 
<mailto:l...@mailcom.com> > wrote:

Well, somebody had to have done it! 

 

 

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Larry Stewart <l.s...@stewart.org 
<mailto:l.s...@stewart.org> > wrote:

I took the liberty of cross posting this earlier to TUHS and I got 

an authoritative answer :)

-Larry

 





Begin forwarded message:

 

From: Ken Thompson <k...@google.com <mailto:k...@google.com> >

Subject: Re: [TUHS] Fwd: [Simh] An abandoned piece of K C

Date: 2017, November 3 at 2:30:08 PM EDT

To: Lawrence Stewart <stew...@serissa.com <mailto:stew...@serissa.com> >

 

it's news to me.



 

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Re: [Simh] OpenVMS 7.3 and Python

[Dave L]

Tried the freeware discs?

The freeware v5 has Python 1.5 on it, may do what you require

http://www.decuslib.com/freeware/freewarev50/python/


HTH


On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 19:01:41 -, Gary Lee Phillips  
 wrote:



Does anyone know of a version of Python for OpenVMS 7.3 on VAX?

I have seen the versions for Alpha and IA64, and remarks stating that  
the C runtime library on the 32 bit version of OpenVMS is "hostile" to  
Python. >However, I have seen Python (perhaps not the latest and  
greatest, but certainly Python) on 32 bit Linux machines. Could the 32  
bit open source >Python not be ported to VAX OpenVMS?
I have not personally had much luck with GNV or other porting  
mechanisms, but I'm really not a C programmer either. I can work in  
several languages >but not C.


Thanks for any information.
--Gary





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Re: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help

[Dave Wade]

Also lots of info on

https://www.pdp8.net/

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Al
> Kossow
> Sent: 24 June 2017 18:23
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/24/17 9:40 AM, Buddy Bell wrote:
> > Googling does not
> > show any DEC PDP centric forums
> 
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?23-DEC
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Buddy
> Bell
> Sent: 24 June 2017 17:40
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] simh & pdp-8 os-8 forums / help
> 
> I have spent about 2 hours trying to figure out why my new simh/PDP8 does
> not have an LPT device by trying to locate the right forum to ask for help.  
> If
> this is the wrong place please forgive.  Googling does not show any DEC PDP
> centric forums (So I created my own Yahoo group


http://dectec.info/
http://www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html

also 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sparetimegizmos/info

as lots of SBC6120 (PDP-8 based clone) folks are on there...

Dave

> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/VintageDEC/info).  If you know of
> any existing forums please pass it on.

Please don't split the resources further...

> 
> When I key:
> 
> LIST TEXT.PA
> 
> I get the message:
> 
> LPT DOES NOT EXIST
> 
> When I start the emulator I have been keying:
> 
> attach LPT text.txt
> 
> and no error is reported.
> 
> Any guidance would be appreciated.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Buddy Bell
> 
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Re: [Simh] VAX 730 Console Tapes [was: VAX 8200]

[Dave L]

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 01:01:51 -, Johnny Billquist   
wrote:



On 2017-03-16 23:01, Hittner, David T [US] (MS) wrote:
What I started with, though, was managing 11/730s in the mid-80s and  
was optimizing the order of files on the console tape to be in the  
order they were requested, so a 30-minute boot process fell to under 5  
minutes... nearly all the time spent was doing serial transfers with  
far, far less tape motion.  -ethan


What always surprised me was that Digital provided VAX 730/750 Console  
tapes "Out Of Order" (alphabetically) which caused slow cold boot  
times, and YOU had to create an optimized version of the tape if you  
wanted a faster boot time. And as Ethan said it really made a  
difference in the cold boot time.


.. What a pain that was. I guess they never cold-booted the internal  
development console-tape systems enough to get annoyed enough to  
optimize the tapes for the customers. I spent a lot of time making  
boot-optimized console tapes also.


My only comment is that I normally never booted from the TU58. Why would  
you do that, except at initial install, or to run diagnostics.


Johnny



As I recall it was a lot quicker to rewrite the tapes in the HSC than on  
the VAX drive too :-)

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Re: [Simh] PDP 10 Software?

[Dave Wade]

Its ok for me.

 

Dave

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: 20 December 2016 08:37
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] PDP 10 Software?

 

Anyone know what happened to http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/? This is the
link from the Software Kits page
(http://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html) for the PDP-10.

 

Regards

 

Rob 

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

[Dave Wade]

PDP-11 OS’s or OS’s in general? 

IBM’s S/370 VM/370R6 (a very old version) has two OS’s CP and CMS and both can 
be built from source..

 

Dave

G4UGM

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of khandy21yo
Sent: 23 October 2016 21:12
To: Al Kossow <a...@bitsavers.org>; simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

 

Is there a list of OS that have sufficient sources to rebuild it?

Would be intresting to those who want to play.research OS designs.

I suspect a lot of the old OS have lost their source code.

 

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

[Dave Wade]

Ray,

 

I really suggest that you look at the Tanenbaum book. It goes into each 
component of an operating system and explains the structures that it uses and 
how the parts fit together. Looking at the code often does not explain this. 
Even were there are comments the usually don’t explain how things mesh, which 
is all important.

 

Dave

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst
Sent: 23 October 2016 03:20
To: Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se>
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

 

Thank you Johnny. I may ruffle some feathers, but I hate C.  I am mildly 
autistic and the way my mind works I actually prefer assembly over high level 
languages. I would really like a blueprint to see what I am doing. Is there 
commented code for DOS/BATCH? Or even CAPS-11. I would like love to see a fully 
commented kernel to see what I am up against. 

Thanks 
Ray 

 

On Oct 22, 2016 9:11 PM, "Johnny Billquist" <b...@softjar.se 
<mailto:b...@softjar.se> > wrote:

While we're at it then... Ray asked for RT-11, since he felt that it was 
smaller and simpler than most other operating systems available, and also 
because he felt more comfortable with assembler than some other language.

Both those points are missed with any Unix-like OS, even if the intention is 
good.

I could just as well offer up RSX, since it actually comes with source where 
the comments are still in place, and it's actually written in assembler for the 
most part as well. However, it is a much more complex system than RT-11, and in 
some ways probably more complex than Unix as well. So I don't think it might be 
a good choice if you just want to understand how an OS works.

In fact, I would probably suggest Ray start with just writing some code to do 
some simple things without looking at existing code. The first thing needed 
would be to just have something that can load programs from a device, and run 
them. This will require some simple device driver, some simple file system, and 
a simple command line interpreter. Then you can go on an expand from there. 
You'll soon realize things you want to abstract away, and deal with in a 
somewhat coherent way.
I wouldn't bother with interrupt system, MMU, or any more fancy stuff to start 
with. A plain 64K PDP-11, with the program loader just located in one end, and 
then go from there. Do system calls through TRAP, EMT or some other 
instruction, and then have a vector installed. If the user program overwrites 
that, tough luck.

Johnny



On 2016-10-23 02:45, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote:

Ray Jewhurst <raywjewhu...@gmail.com <mailto:raywjewhu...@gmail.com> > asks 
today for documented
operating system source code for the PDP-11.  Besides the Lions' Unix
v6 code, there is also Doug Comer's Xinu project about which he wrote
several books.  Current versions are targeted at x86 and ARM CPUs,

http://www.xinu.cs.purdue.edu/

but he still provides code for older systems (PDP-11, SPARC, VAX):

ftp://ftp.cs.purdue.edu/pub/comer/

There is more about him here, including links to his books Web site:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Comer

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  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se <mailto:b...@softjar.se>  ||  Reading murder 
books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 source

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Al
> Kossow
> Sent: 22 October 2016 23:53
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] RT-11 source
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/22/16 2:46 PM, Jacob Goense wrote:
> > On 2016-10-22 12:55, Al Kossow wrote:
> >> On 10/22/16 7:44 AM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
> >>> I have an idea for project to teach my self rudimentary OS design and I
> would like to use RT-11 as an example
> >>>
> >>
> >> Did anyone ever port MINIX to the PDP-11?
> >
> > No way.
> >
> 
> It ran on an 8088
> 

I think Minix and the Tannenbaum book are a great start for anyone wanting to 
learn about operating systems. The latest Minix 3 compiles with a public domain 
compiler. The book is available on Abe Books for under $10.

Dave
G4UGM

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Re: [Simh] Ferranti Pegasus Simulator

[Dave Wade]

Thanks for all the replies, I really had a mental block over this and no amount 
of reading the Wikipedia articles helped at all..

Just to mention a couple of things. I started on this a long time ago, which is 
why it isn't SIMH. I guess one day I will re-visit doing it in SIMH.

Bob's point about "was it an exact algorithm" prompted me to read the Pegasus 
Maintenance Manuals, which are on Bitsavers here:-

ftp://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ferranti/pegasus/Pegasus_Maint_Vol2_May56.pdf

which I now find describes in great detail the repeated subtraction process in 
great detail. It is an exact algorithm and its very similar to the one below, 
so I think I am now good to go.
(any one else reading this a "Staticisor" is basically a latch or register)

If you want to see how I progress I will be recording progress on my 
"hackaday.io" projects page.

https://hackaday.io/projects/hacker/99268

Dave
G4GM


> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bob Supnik
> Sent: 11 June 2016 02:53
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Ferranti Pegasus Simulator
> 
> There are any number of strange-length divide algorithms in SimH. Here is the
> PDP-10 code for dividing a 70b unsigned integer by a 35b
> (unsigned) integer.
> 
> // dvd[0:1] = 70b dividend, high order first (35b in each word) // dvr = 35b
> divisor // rs[0:1] = quotient remainder // all variables (except i)  are 
> unsigned
> 64b
> 
>  for (i = 0, rs[0] = 0; i < 35; i++) {   /* 35 quotient
> bits */
>  dvd[0] = (dvd[0] << 1) | ((dvd[1] >> 34) & 1);
>  dvd[1] = (dvd[1] << 1) & MMASK; /* shift
> dividend and mask */
>  rs[0] = rs[0] << 1; /* shift
> quotient */
>  if (dvd[0] >= dvr) {/* subtract
> work? */
>  dvd[0] = dvd[0] - dvr;  /* quo bit is 1 */
>  rs[0] = rs[0] + 1;
>  }
>  }
>  rs[1] = dvd[0]; /* store
> remainder */
> 
> It's easy enough to see how to expand this to a computer with 39b in each word
> of dvd - just increase the loop count from 35 to 39, increase the shift count 
> in
> the second line from 34 to 38, and define MMASK to be
> 39 bits of 1s.
> 
> In general, it's simplest to implement this sort of multi-precision divide
> unsigned. Simply calculate the sign of the quotient and dividend before 
> starting
> (quo sign = dividend sign XOR divisor sign; rem sign = dividend sign), then 
> take
> the absolute value of dividend and divisor before running the bit-by-bit 
> loop; fix
> up the signs of quotient and remainder when done.
> 
> This assumes that the Ferranti did a precise divide. That's not necessarily 
> the
> case. The IBM 7094 approximated double precision floating divide with a two
> term Taylor-series expansion...
> 
> I hope the available Pegasus documentation provides sufficient detail on how
> divide was actually implemented.
> 
> /Bob
> 
> On 6/10/2016 8:15 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> > --
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 00:46:02 +0100
> > From: "Dave Wade"<dave.g4...@gmail.com> To:<simh@trailing-
> edge.com>
> > Subject: [Simh] Ferranti Pegasus Simulator
> > Message-ID:<002401d1c372$3fc331e0$bf4995a0$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Whilst its not a SIMH simulator, I hope you can help. I want to write
> > an emulator for the Pegasus. The Ferranti Pegasus was (there are none
> > operating at present) a strange beast with two 18-bit instructions per 
> > 39-bit
> word.
> > Generally, it does 39-bit twos complement arithmetic. The multiply
> > results in a 77-bit result which I have no problems implementing.
> >
> > Where I am struggling is with the divide. I need to be able to divide
> > a 77-bit number by a 39-bit number and get a 39 bit quotient and a 39
> > bit remainder. As the compiler I am using only does 64-bit numbers
> > this is proving challenging. Any one got a good article on how to do this?
> >
> > Dave Wade
> > G4UGM
> 
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[Simh] Ferranti Pegasus Simulator

[Dave Wade]

Whilst its not a SIMH simulator, I hope you can help. I want to write an
emulator for the Pegasus. The Ferranti Pegasus was (there are none operating
at present) a strange beast with two 18-bit instructions per 39-bit word.
Generally, it does 39-bit twos complement arithmetic. The multiply results
in a 77-bit result which I have no problems implementing.
 
Where I am struggling is with the divide. I need to be able to divide a
77-bit number by a 39-bit number and get a 39 bit quotient and a 39 bit
remainder. As the compiler I am using only does 64-bit numbers this is
proving challenging. Any one got a good article on how to do this?
 
Dave Wade
G4UGM
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Re: [Simh] System/1

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
> Sent: 27 May 2016 01:30
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] System/1
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/26/16 1:46 PM, Bob Supnik wrote:
> > I didn't know of any surviving software
> 
> look on bitsavers for docs and software, unless I forgot to upload it.
> 

Plenty of documents but no software. 

> 
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Re: [Simh] Way out idea for simh

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Veit,
> Holger
> Sent: 21 April 2016 08:56
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Way out idea for simh
> 
> I think this is missing the actual problem. If a simh supported machine has
> some kind of (paper/magnetic) tape oder disk device, they are almost always
> physical files on the host system which can be attached/detached by simh
> console commands. 

So if there was an interface so that the emulated computer could issue console 
commands this would IMHO actually be more usefull than access to the file 
system.


> And for some special cases with IBM
> iron, there were native EBCDIC converters.
> 

There are actually a lot of systems that don't use ASCII, IBM1130, IBM1620, 
GE-600 Honeywell H-200 series, IBM1401...

> Holger
> 
Dave

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Re: [Simh] networking support - Windows?

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Pizzolato [mailto:m...@infocomm.com]
> Sent: 14 March 2016 21:43
> To: Dave Wade <dave.g4...@gmail.com>; 'Rich Alderson'
> <s...@alderson.users.panix.com>; simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: RE: [Simh] networking support - Windows?
> 
> On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
> > > >   [in response to a statement that only the PDP-11 and VAX
> > > > simulators
> > have
> > > >networking support]
> > > >
> >
> > Are there any Windows binary's with Network Support enabled? I seem to
> > go round in circles trying to find these...
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> Look here: https://github.com/simh/Win32-Development-Binaries
> 
> - Mark

How do you download them, when you click on a file it says "its too big to 
view"

Dave

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Re: [Simh] networking support - Windows?

[Dave Wade]

> >   [in response to a statement that only the PDP-11 and VAX simulators have
> >networking support]
> >

Are there any Windows binary's with Network Support enabled? I seem to go round 
in circles trying to find these...

Dave 

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Re: [Simh] programming in binary

[dave porter]

As I understand it. the EDSAC (the first or second, depending on how you 
counted, stored-program machine in production service) had an 
assembler/bootstrap (modern terminology, or course) program wired into a 
bank of uniselectors as the 'initial orders'.  This allowed for 
single-character instruction mnemonics and decimal storage addresses. 'A' 
for 'add' seems clear enough to me, but 'V' for multiply-and-add is less so. 
So, we apparently had assemblers from more-or-less the very beginning.


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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Dave Wade]

> 
> BTW, I think that plugboard programming, other than for some business
> applications with IBM "accounting machines", disappeared rather quickly as
> Von Neumann machines appeared.  That too would be interesting to look
> for.

I am not so sure about that. Older technology often continued in use long after 
it was produced. In the 50's, 60's and 70's they took the "if it ain't broke 
don't fix it" paradigm seriously.

So IBM punch card accounting machines, complete with plug boards were still in 
use in 1974 when I did my "Industrial placement" at a Life Insurance Company. I 
was taught Analog Computer programming, using of course plug boards. Some not 
so early mini computers used "ferrite core rom" where you dropped a ferrite 
core into a coil to set a bit.

> 
>   paul
> 
> 

Dave
G4UGM

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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Dave Wade]

Whilst “B” only had the “word” as a type it did have, at last in the version I 
used, on the Honeywell L66/GCOS machines, a set of functions to manipulate 
character strings. 
 
Dave
G4UGM
 
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Clem Cole
Sent: 26 February 2016 02:22
To: Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net>
Cc: SIMH <simh@trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
 
 
On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Bill Cunningham <bill...@suddenlink.net 
<mailto:bill...@suddenlink.net> > wrote:
When Ken Thompson coded UNIX it was in assembly.
​Correct...​
 
 
 
The first versions anyway before B/NB/C
​I do not think that is 100% correct.  B and early UNIX sort of come about at 
the same time.   B (and its pseudo model - BCPL) has only one data type (a 
word) and that works because UNIX was originally implemented on a word 
addressed machine.
 
NB/C comes out when the Ken starts moving to the 11 which was byte addressed, 
as opposed to word addresses of it's predecessors. 
 
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Re: [Simh] Cross Compilers (and memories thereof)

[Dave Wade]

I note someone said MTS hosted several cross assemblers and compilers. Readers 
may be interested to note that a sanitised copy of MTS ready to run on the 
Hercules S390/XA/390 emulator is available for download.

http://archive.michigan-terminal-system.org/mts-d60A

http://www.hercules-390.eu/

Dave Wade
G4UGM

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of
> Armistead, Jason BIS
> Sent: 23 February 2016 17:32
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Cross Compilers (and memories thereof)
> 
> Let's move this to a new thread subject of its own !
> 
> On Tuesday, 23 February 2016 12:04 PM, Davis Johnson <da...@frizzen.com>
> wrote (under old subject Re: [Simh] Interdata OS/32: hello-world in CAL32) :
> 
> > One that I remember was TI had a 9900 cross assembler written in
> FORTRAN (all caps in those days). It was free to educational institutions.
> > I talked a prof. into requesting it, but the available FORTRAN compiler 
> > didn't
> like it.
> 
> Another now-defunct company, Microtec Research Incorporated (purchased
> by Mentor Graphics in late 1995), definitely had a TI9900 cross assembler
> written in FORTRAN from 1983.  We had the source code under license and
> compiled it under VAX/VMS (complete with CLI switches), and with a few
> custom tweaks, it was largely compatible with SDSMAC that ran on TI's 990
> computer systems (now simulated via Dave Pitts' SIM990).  There was also a
> linker/loader that produced Tektronix HEX output (similar to TI's SDSLNK) as
> the final executable.  I was able to modify the code enough to get it to
> compile under OpenWatcom's Fortran 77 on Windows XP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Simh] Compatibility you can use Was: VAX/VMS

[Dave Wade]

> >
> > You can't seriously mean that you think that a 32-bit application and
> > a 64-bit application would be expected to be compatible with each other?
> > I would expect the 32-bit code to work in 32-bit mode, but having it
> > work if you are in 64-bit mode is a ridiculous expectation.
> 
> Really? It works fine on IBM's z/OS.
> 
> It seems ridiculous to me that you think it shouldn't. This is what I have 
> been
> saying. IBM moved from 24 bit to 31 bit to 64 bit and everything still works.
> No expanded footprint, no duplicate libraries, no problem.
> 

That’s not (quite) true. As I said before problem state code works fine. 
Anything that uses supervisor mode will likely fail. 

It took IBM a lot of work, microcode (SIE instruction) and a new Hypervisor to 
get from MVS/SP to MVS/XA.
I am told VM/XA only exits because they needed it to debug MVS/XA.

There is much more I info about IBM and especially VM's history on Melinda 
Varian's home page:-

http://www.leeandmelindavarian.com/Melinda/

and as for backwards compatibility the book "The soul of a new machine"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Soul-Machine-Modern-Library/dp/0679602615 

has some interesting observations about building a new machine...

Dave
G4UGM

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Re: [Simh] EXT : Alpha under SIMH

[Dave L]

if you take a look at this site you can find the link to download  
personalAplha ;-)

http://jonesrh.info/dcll/dcll_why_i_use.html#VMS_Hobbyist_solutions

Also the Idleloop installer info if you'll need it - not recommended for  
non-hobyist configs tho.


I've used both FreeAXP and Charon (personal & official) and they run VMS  
fine. Have recently loaded Tru64 5.1B on FreeAXP but not had much time to  
play with it. Running on an i7 Windows-10 laptop I didn't notice any  
performance loss and the emulator performed fine. Can only run one  
instance of FreeAXP at a time though so cannot set up a cluster or have  
VMS & Tru64 both running simultaneously. Networking I can't comment yet as  
not bothered so far given the laptop isn't tethered to a network point,  
only using WiFi ATM.


regards
Dave

On Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:16:53 -, Hittner, David T (IS)  
<david.hitt...@ngc.com> wrote:


Not correct. Migration Specialties offers FreeAXP, which is a reduced  
performance Alpha.

I don't know if StromaSys still offers Personal Alpha or not.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Zane  
Healy

Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:05 PM
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] EXT : Alpha under SIMH

Am I correct that none of the Commercial solutions offer a “Hobbyist”  
emulator for the DEC Alpha anymore?


Zane



On Feb 19, 2016, at 9:42 AM, Hittner, David T (IS)  
<david.hitt...@ngc.com> wrote:


No. SIMH Alpha is just the CPU, no system (motherboard) and no  
peripherals. It is not in a runnable state.


Alpha emulations are available commercially from multiple sources:
Migration Specialties
SRI (Charon)
AVTware
etc.

Dave Hittner

-Original Message-
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Robert  
Thomas

Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 12:13 PM
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: EXT :[Simh] Alpha under SIMH

We are on the verge of having to retire our AlphaStation XP1000.  We  
have experimented with some of the commercial emulators, but based on  
very positive experience with the VAX emulation under simh are  
wondering if the AXP EV5 emulation that is hinted at on the simh web  
site is available and functional?


Sincerely,
Robert F. Thomas

44 Industrial Way
Norwood, MA USA 02062
N  Office Phone - (781) 329-9200
O mail to: r...@asthomas.com



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Re: [Simh] VAX/VMS

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Rhialto [mailto:rhia...@falu.nl]
> Sent: 16 February 2016 19:58
> To: Clem Cole <cl...@ccc.com>
> Cc: Dave Wade <dave.g4...@gmail.com>; SIMH <simh@trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VAX/VMS
> 
> On Tue 16 Feb 2016 at 08:58:11 -0500, Clem Cole wrote:
> > Dave be careful --   S/360 Model 67 has VM in the late 1960's - TSS and
> > it's brother MTS, both rely on it.   The 67 is a Model 65 with a  Data
> > Address Translation unit (DAT box) - is supplied by a 8 x 32 bit TLB
> > which is in a cabinet that t'ed off the main CPU and is about the same
> > size en entire Vax 780 which would follow 10 years later.
> 
> Note that I have rescued at some point in the past an IBM patent (it was
the
> UK version) of a computer with microcode, and maybe Virtual Memory too.
> Although they didn't call it that I think. After reading, it described
something

Perhaps relocation. Allows code to run from any start address. Also storage
keys which allow memory to be protected. 
Virtual Memory was first patented by Manchester University and implemented
in Atlas. I believe IBM later acquired this patent.

There are many later patents for virtual memory improvements.

> remarkably like the S/360. It lists the full microcode and has extensive
> hardware schematics.
> 
> The patent number is 1,108,800. Inventors: Gene Myron Amdahl et al.
> USA patent application number 357372, 6 April 1964. The issued patent
> number is US003400371.
> 

I believe that Amdahl (as a company) also came up with the patent for a
control processor
... so IBM paid them for every mainframe with a control processor, and
Amdahl paid IBM for the Virtual Memory Patents...

> -Olaf.
> --
> ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for
> \X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl-- 'this bath is too hot.'

Dave
G4UGM

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Re: [Simh] VAX/VMS

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Wilm
> Boerhout
> Sent: 16 February 2016 11:58
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VAX/VMS
> 
> Johnny Billquist schreef op 16-2-2016 om 12:49:
> >
> > No, it is not. Talk to IBM about S/360... :-) And there are some VAXen

S/360 compatibility is only forward, and only to a certain point. S/360 and 
S/370 are both 24-bit addressing and fairly compatible, but S/370 (Mostly) has 
Virtual Memory as standard. 

Then came the "great divide" S/370XA. XA mode has 31-bit addressing and 
different I/O instructions. Some of the XA boxes will work is S/370 mode, but 
many won't.

More recently IBM moved to 64-bit hardware. Again some will boot in 31-bit mode 
but more recent boxes need a 64-bit OS.

So the earliest incarnations of "OS", which were I guess "MFT" which is 
basically a fixed number of partitions will run on later machines until you get 
to systems which will only run in 31bit mode. (XA Mode).  

OS/VS2 and its siblings MVS (This is the free version), MVS/SP (The paid for 
version) will only run on S/370 or later, not on 360, as they need Virtual 
Memory and it stops working at the same point as MFT when 31 bit only machines 
appear. There are also issues of Virtual Memory Page size which may stop MVS 
(the free version working) working on some hardware (there are patches to work 
round this).

You also have issues over disk (DASD in IBM speak) support. So whilst MFT was 
written for a 1996 S/360 it would in theory run on an P390E from 1996 so 30 
years of computability. However, it would need older disks, which the P/390E 
cannot support.

Of course these changes are really only to do with programs that run in 
supervisor state. User mode programs generally will run unchanged from 1966 
through to the present day, and the latest zOS a descendant of MVS will still 
run 24-bit applications.  I am pretty sure that until a few years many 
commercial sites, so mostly Cobol, still used the older "free" Fortran-66 
compiler for the odd Fortran job.

> > on which V7.3 will definitely not run. How about rtVAX for example.
> >
> I stand corrected. Please note that I had a marketing job once. It sticks...

... I also believe that some of the in-compatibility in IBM kit is to drive the 
hardware->software->Hardware->Software upgrade chain and keep the dollars 
rolling in...

Dave G4UGM 




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Re: [Simh] OSs with accessible documentation

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Paul
> Koning
> Sent: 06 February 2016 19:01
> To: Timothe Litt <l...@ieee.org>
> Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] OSs with accessible documentation
> 
> 
> > On Feb 5, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Timothe Litt <l...@ieee.org> wrote:
> >
> > Some of the PDFs on bitsavers are searchable.  It would be a good
> > project to OCR the rest into searchable pdfs - as that also means that
> > the text can be extracted.   OCR is getting good enough (finally) that
> > it's feasible.  I'm sure that they'd be accepted back into bitsavers
> > - searchable is good for everyone.
> 
> Some disapprove of OCR for reasons I don't really understand.

It depends how you build the PDF. If you replace the images with the OCR's 
text, which seems to be the default, then you introduce errors.
If you leave the images in place and put text behind the images I can't see 
what the problem is,


> 
> A problem with OCR is that it's hard to find a good one.  I dabbled with an
> OCR plugin that Adobe once offered (free, and worth about that).  I also
> once tried an open source OCR, which was vastly inferior still.
> 

> But commercial OCR programs exist that do a decent job, especially if the
> scanned material is clean as is the case for much of what is on Bitsavers.  I 
> use
> Abbyy FineReader which I rather like, but I expect there are other good ones
> out there too.
> 

I also use a copy of Abbey Fine Reader PRO I got from a Magazine cover disk. It 
seems to work well, and can be tweaked..

> One key point is that you typically need to spend some time "training" the
> program on the particular type of material -- typeface etc. -- that you're
> working with.  The default settings are rarely adequate.
> 

Fine Reader Pro is OK if the scans are good. My new scanner is quicker and 
produces better scans. It also has a sheet feeder.

>   paul
> 
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Dave
G4UGM

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[Simh] ODT

[dave porter]

In the corner of DEC here I came from, it was the "Odious Debugging
Tool", especially if you were used to symbolic debuggers.



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[Simh] VAX/VMS under v4.0

[Dave Osborne]

Hello,

Under V3.9-0 I have a VMS cluster running under SUSE 13.2.  I have two Vaxen 
running VMS 7.3 and an Alpha emulator running VMS 8.3 under FreeAXP. The Vaxen 
boot off a shared image disk with no problem and the Alpha boots from it's own 
disk. They all access the Ethernet device eth0 with no problem and I can access 
each system from any external system. Great!

I decided to build V4.0. First problem is that the simulator complains about 
eth0...needing a tun/tap device. I configured my system for tun/tap devices. OK 
the first system boots OK. The second VAX boots and complains that the eth 
device is busy. Before I dig any further can anyone give me some pointers. And 
why can't I connect to the eth0 device!

And then onto the Alpha...

Regards Dave

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Re: [Simh] off-topic basic translator

[Dave G4UGM]

As I am sure most of you know ANSI escapes don't work in modern windows
command shell.
 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16755142/how-to-make-win32-console-recogn
ize-ansi-vt100-escape-sequences
 
Dave Wade
G4UGM
 
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Gahlinger
Sent: 05 August 2015 20:57
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] off-topic basic translator
 
Another issue I'm running into which should be fun, is VT escape sequences

eg:
170 PRINT ESC+Y+CHR$(53)+CHR$(33);\INPUT #1;PRESS RETURN TO CONTINUE;A$

That puts the cursor at a specific place on screen,
these were built on VT-52 and VT-100 terminals with fixed screen size.
using Linux you can get ANSI support, but the screen could be a vastly
different size,
of course, we can just make it run like normal.

the other problem is the escape sequences themselves may not work any more.
they seem to work in Linux with ANSI enabled,
will they work on Mac CLI (maybe) or DOS/Windows ? portability is important.

But, I'm not going to do a ton of work writing cursor routines for a dozen
basic programs from the 80's.

and btw freepascal has incredible string handling for those doubters out
there...

Dan.
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Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

[Dave G4UGM]

So that has the Paul Edwards GCC port and hacked BREXX. I am busy this week, 
but if you nag next week I will look at how SIMH does i/o and see if it is 
possible to provide some kind of read/write support in the I/O in GCC.
 
Dave
 
From: rubh...@aol.com [mailto:rubh...@aol.com] 
Sent: 04 August 2015 11:47
To: m...@infocomm.com; dave.g4...@gmail.com
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS
 
I'm pleased that my efforts have inspired others to produce code to improve 
portability of simh. 
 
My base hardware for this project runs Ubuntu on a AMD Athlon system,
maybe 3-4 years old.  The surmised legacy environment is
provided by Hercules emulator on Ubuntu; this runs the VM/370 Six-Pack
v1.2 by Robert O'Hara.
 
Out of time for tonight, but will be back with more details and some answers
to Why???.
 
Thanks for the help so far.
Fritz
 
-Original Message-
From: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm m...@infocomm.com mailto:m...@infocomm.com 
To: Dave G4UGM dave.g4...@gmail.com mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com ; rubhone 
rubh...@aol.com mailto:rubh...@aol.com 
Cc: simh simh@trailing-edge.com mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com 
Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2015 2:36 pm
Subject: RE: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS
On Saturday, August 1, 2015 at 11:29AM Dave G4UGM wrote:
 On Saturday, August
1, 2015 at 10:32AM Fritz wrote:
 Perhaps this original code struck you as
nasty because it is really a hidden OS dependency,
 is it not?  Or are
character set arrangements not included in that realm?
 
 Well it’s a
character set dependency and a really neat piece of optimization. 
 However
its hiding something in a bit field, a trick which in High Level languages has
 
 always caused me problems in the past.
 I think it would be more portable
to have the Alphabet as a string 
 “ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ” and then
search through it for the wanted 
 character, but of course much
slower…
 
That is a good suggestion, AND since code paths which use the SWMASK
macro are not performance sensitive speed really isn't a concern.
 
The simh
code at https://github.com/simh/simh has been changed to implement the SWMASK
macro with code which does this as Dave suggested.
 
The simh source code now
doesn't have a ASCII character set dependency, however, many/most of the systems
that have simh simulators expect ASCII characters as input and output.  Mapping
from host platform character set into the ASCII simulated character set will
also be required as you move forward...
 
 Thinking about related matters, do
I need to be concerned that the IBM systems are
 big endian?  It appears that
simh takes this into account with the sim_finit routine in sim_fio.c,
 but
there could be other places with data coding assumptions not fitting the /370
architecture.
 
 It possible, but its probably easier to try and test, rather
than to find.
 
The simh codebase works fine on big endian systems.
 
 For
the moment, I hacked the attach dev code to avoid a rb+ file open attempt
since
 the CMS implementation of the stdio package does not support
simultaneous r/w file access.
 This will surely prove to be another big
problem, but for now the attach is successful for an
 existing file.
 
 
You didn’t say which IBM platform you were running this on, and which “C”
compiler….
 
A C runtime environment which supports open mode rb+ is
definitely a requirement.  
 
I have no familiarity with VM/CMS, but the name
(and the issues Fritz previously mentioned) suggest to me that this is a legacy
environment.  Porting simh to run on legacy environments is generally out of
scope with respect to the project goals.  The general simh goals are to provide
ways of simulating legacy environments or systems on modern systems.
 
- Mark
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Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

[Dave G4UGM]

Dave, 

 

You need not be amazed; your idea is sound and as you mentioned, getting the 
brackets

right was the worst of it.  Congrats on the code transformation from simply 
nasty to

really horrid and finally truely noxious.  I'll insert some line breaks 
and comments to

make it potentially readable.  (Here I thought APL was the only write-only 
language.)

 

Perhaps this original code struck you as nasty because it is really a hidden 
OS dependency,

is it not?  Or are character set arrangements not included in that realm?

 

Well it’s a character set dependency and a really neat piece of optimization. 
However its hiding something in a bit field, a trick which in High Level 
languages has always caused me problems in the past.

I think it would be more portable to have the Alphabet as a string 
“ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ” and then search through it for the wanted 
character, but of course much slower…

 

As Michael Jackson once said :-

 

Beer may cause you to digress--and lead a happier life

 

(that was another late and much lamented Michael Jackson aka “the beer hunter” 
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson_(writer)”

 

Michael Jackson author of – Principles of Program Design - 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Jackson

 

Had a more apposite saying, that is  “we will look at optimaztion – but later 
on” , perhaps its not time…

 

Thinking about related matters, do I need to be concerned that the IBM systems 
are

big endian?  It appears that simh takes this into account with the sim_finit 
routine in sim_fio.c,

but there could be other places with data coding assumptions not fitting the 
/370 architecture.

 

It possible, but its probably easier to try and test, rather than to find.

 

For the moment, I hacked the attach dev code to avoid a rb+ file open 
attempt since

the CMS implementation of the stdio package does not support simultaneous r/w 
file access.

This will surely prove to be another big problem, but for now the attach is 
successful for an

existing file.

 

You didn’t say which IBM platform you were running this on, and which “C” 
compiler….

 

Fritz

 

Dave

 

From: rubh...@aol.com [mailto:rubh...@aol.com] 
Sent: 01 August 2015 18:32
To: dave.g4...@gmail.com
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

 

-Original Message-
From: Dave G4UGM dave.g4...@gmail.com mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com 
To: rubhone rubh...@aol.com mailto:rubh...@aol.com 
Cc: 'simh' simh@trailing-edge.com mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com 
Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2015 7:09 am
Subject: RE: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

I am amazed, and very glad, it works, been ages since I wrote any “C” ….

.. and as for threads, well they are hidden in the headers, and should just 
pick up again. 

 

Dave Wade

G4UGM

 

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Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

[Dave G4UGM]

I am amazed, and very glad, it works, been ages since I wrote any “C” ….

.. and as for threads, well they are hidden in the headers, and should just 
pick up again. 

 

Dave Wade

G4UGM

 

From: rubh...@aol.com [mailto:rubh...@aol.com] 
Sent: 31 July 2015 13:01
To: dave.g4...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

 

Your code does the trick, Thank You! 

I' m not sure how to post this back to the email list in the same thread?

 

Fritz



-Original Message-
From: Dave G4UGM  mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com dave.g4...@gmail.com
To: 'Jordi Guillaumes i Pons'  mailto:j...@jordi.guillaumes.name 
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name; rubhone  mailto:rubh...@aol.com rubh...@aol.com
Cc: simh  mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Wed, Jul 29, 2015 6:29 am
Subject: RE: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

I assume it is this line in sim_defs.h that causes the issue…

 

#define SWMASK(x) (1u  (((int) (x)) - ((int) 'A')))

 

What a nasty piece of code (sorry folks)….

… So to make it really horrid we can use nested “?” operator. So we have 

 

{expr1} ? {expr2} :  {expr3}

 

So if “expr1” is true we execute “expr2”, otherwise “expr3”. 

 

Nesting this we have 

 

{expr1}  ? {expr2}  : ( {expr3} ? {expr4} : {expr5}),

 

If  “expr1” is “true” we do “expr2”, 

if “expr1” is false and “expr3” is true we do “expr4” 

if “expr1 and expr3 are both false we do “expr5”

 

Hacking the macro gives use something like this:-

 

#define SWMASK(x)  (1u  ( ((int)(x)(int)('I')) ? (((int)(x)) - ((int)'A')) : 
( ((int)(x)(int)('S'))? (((int)(x))+9-((int)'J')) : (((int)(x))+20-((int)'S')) 
) ))

 

Not sure the brackets match but basically use “?” to say 

 

1.   if its “A” to “I” then the old logic works, 

2.   if its “J” through “R” then you need to take off “J” and add “9”

3.   if its “S” thru “Z” then take off “S” and add   “18”

 

Truely noxious, needs surrounding by tests for VM, is that “__VM__”?

 

#if defined __VM__

#define SWMASK(x)  (1u  ( ((int)(x)(int)('I')) ? (((int)(x)) - ((int)'A')) : 
( ((int)(x)(int)('S'))? (((int)(x))+9-((int)'J')) : (((int)(x))+20-((int)'S')) 
) ))

#else

#define SWMASK(x) (1u  (((int) (x)) - ((int) 'A')))

#endif

 

I now need to lie down in a dark room with a nice COBOL manual..

 

Dave

G4UGM

Actually off to a Theater Organ Concert.

 http://www.ltot.org.uk/ http://www.ltot.org.uk/

 

From: Simh [ mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com 
mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
Sent: 29 July 2015 08:03
To:  mailto:rubh...@aol.com rubh...@aol.com
Cc:  mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

 

Sorry for top posting.

 

Write a remapping macro to convert from the array index to the EBCDIC encoding. 
Use conditional compilation so when the target OS is not VM or MVS it does 
nothing and returns the original index.

Jordi Guillaumes Pons

 


El 29/07/2015, a les 7:06,  mailto:rubh...@aol.com rubh...@aol.com va 
escriure:

I have made substantial progress in an attempt to run simh under IBM's VM/370 
CMS environment. 

 

Difficulties include:

  lack of a proper make facility

  external reference and symbolic names limited to 8 characters

  no hierarchical file system

  OS dependencies for file I/O, timers, etc.

  file system preference for fixed length 80 byte record-oriented files

  makes importing source code awkward

 

Despite all of this, I am currently able to compile, load and execute the simh 
scp for a

target ALTAIR system.   Console interactions (set/show) are fine, and the sim 
will run

do files upon startup and interactively.

 

I am currently trying to get the attach dev file code working.  This made 
me realize

that a compiler (gcc) warning regarding sim_switches and SWMASK is a real issue.

 

The EBCDIC character set used on IBM systems has gaps in the codes for A to 
Z,

occupying an integer range of 41 values.  This causes the left shift in SWMASK 
to exceed

the defined size of int32 for sim_switches.

 

My broad range of old-school programming by no means makes me an expert in C.

Any ideas on a compact solution for this character set problem?

 

Regards,

Fritz

 

 

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Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

[Dave G4UGM]

I assume it is this line in sim_defs.h that causes the issue…

 

#define SWMASK(x) (1u  (((int) (x)) - ((int) 'A')))

 

What a nasty piece of code (sorry folks)….

… So to make it really horrid we can use nested “?” operator. So we have 

 

{expr1} ? {expr2} :  {expr3}

 

So if “expr1” is true we execute “expr2”, otherwise “expr3”. 

 

Nesting this we have 

 

{expr1}  ? {expr2}  : ( {expr3} ? {expr4} : {expr5}),

 

If  “expr1” is “true” we do “expr2”, 

if “expr1” is false and “expr3” is true we do “expr4” 

if “expr1 and expr3 are both false we do “expr5”

 

Hacking the macro gives use something like this:-

 

#define SWMASK(x)  (1u  ( ((int)(x)(int)('I')) ? (((int)(x)) - ((int)'A')) : 
( ((int)(x)(int)('S'))? (((int)(x))+9-((int)'J')) : (((int)(x))+20-((int)'S')) 
) ))

 

Not sure the brackets match but basically use “?” to say 

 

1.   if its “A” to “I” then the old logic works, 

2.   if its “J” through “R” then you need to take off “J” and add “9”

3.   if its “S” thru “Z” then take off “S” and add   “18”

 

Truely noxious, needs surrounding by tests for VM, is that “__VM__”?

 

#if defined __VM__

#define SWMASK(x)  (1u  ( ((int)(x)(int)('I')) ? (((int)(x)) - ((int)'A')) : 
( ((int)(x)(int)('S'))? (((int)(x))+9-((int)'J')) : (((int)(x))+20-((int)'S')) 
) ))

#else

#define SWMASK(x) (1u  (((int) (x)) - ((int) 'A')))

#endif

 

I now need to lie down in a dark room with a nice COBOL manual..

 

Dave

G4UGM

Actually off to a Theater Organ Concert.

http://www.ltot.org.uk/

 

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Jordi 
Guillaumes i Pons
Sent: 29 July 2015 08:03
To: rubh...@aol.com
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] Porting simh for IBM VM/CMS

 

Sorry for top posting.

 

Write a remapping macro to convert from the array index to the EBCDIC encoding. 
Use conditional compilation so when the target OS is not VM or MVS it does 
nothing and returns the original index.

Jordi Guillaumes Pons

 


El 29/07/2015, a les 7:06, rubh...@aol.com mailto:rubh...@aol.com  va 
escriure:

I have made substantial progress in an attempt to run simh under IBM's VM/370 
CMS environment. 

 

Difficulties include:

  lack of a proper make facility

  external reference and symbolic names limited to 8 characters

  no hierarchical file system

  OS dependencies for file I/O, timers, etc.

  file system preference for fixed length 80 byte record-oriented files

  makes importing source code awkward

 

Despite all of this, I am currently able to compile, load and execute the simh 
scp for a

target ALTAIR system.   Console interactions (set/show) are fine, and the sim 
will run

do files upon startup and interactively.

 

I am currently trying to get the attach dev file code working.  This made 
me realize

that a compiler (gcc) warning regarding sim_switches and SWMASK is a real issue.

 

The EBCDIC character set used on IBM systems has gaps in the codes for A to 
Z,

occupying an integer range of 41 values.  This causes the left shift in SWMASK 
to exceed

the defined size of int32 for sim_switches.

 

My broad range of old-school programming by no means makes me an expert in C.

Any ideas on a compact solution for this character set problem?

 

Regards,

Fritz

 

 

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Re: [Simh] vector images

[Dave G4UGM]

Well the simplest way is to use the installer service and tell it to extract 
but not install as that doesn’t require any additional software. Its called an 
“administrative install” but really it just unpacks..
 
msiexec /a pathtoMSIfile /qb TARGETDIR=pathtotargetfolder
 
A quick google brought up this list of other tools
 
https://www.raymond.cc/blog/how-to-view-and-extract-contents-from-a-msi-file/
 
but in any case the specific vector graphic versions of CPM appear to be 
available as ZIP and self extracting .exe files on the web sites others have 
pointed to. E.G.
 
http://schorn.ch/altair_5.php
 
has a CPM archive
 
Dave
G4UGM
 
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Armistead, 
Jason BIS
Sent: 17 July 2015 14:41
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] vector images
 
Surely it is possible to extract files from SETUP.MSI without running the 
installer.  Someone must have the tools to do this (either commercial or 
freeware perhaps ?).
 
Another alternative is to run a virtual Windows OS image inside something like 
VirtualBox, thus avoiding any problems “destroying” your day-to-day Windows 
host system (if you even have one).  I you didn’t specify what Windows version 
the rimh altairz80 emulator requires, so this may or may not be possible.  
Other alternatives to VirtualBox might be something like the Bochs IA-32 
emulator.
 
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Handy
Sent: Thursday, 16 July 2015 8:50 PM
To: Dennis Boone
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com 
Subject: Re: [Simh] vector images
 
Yes, they are there, in a file called setup.msi, and nowhere else.
So, as long as you ahve a windows machine that you don;t care if it installs 
older file on top of newer ones,  I had to re-install too many windows systems 
because of this, and finding all of the right install pckges, and figuring out 
the proprt order to reinstall them to get a working system was always a pain. 
msi is the old install format that comonly had this problem.
However, I think I have come up with a painful, roundabout way to extract the 
files, maybe. If not, I was just curious about its memory mapped video, ans if 
the flexwriter emulation was useful enough to bother with. If this doesn't 
work, I'll just have to give up on it.
 
On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Dennis Boone d...@msu.edu 
mailto:d...@msu.edu  wrote:
  Many companies builf computers that  used this operating system, like
  the altair, imsai, osborne, kaypro, and vector graPhics to name a
  few.  Many years later, the rimh altairz80 emulator was written with
  the abiliry ro emulate the vector graphic machines, but the only copy
  of the necessary config and disk images was wrapped up in a miceosoft
  install file called setup.msi.

1. Vector Graphic, no s.

2. Most of the stuff in the altairz80 kits is probably available from
vector-archive.org http://vector-archive.org .

De

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[Simh] More on C declarations

[dave porter]

Bill Cunningham wrote:
   I guess cdecl was removed from my distro of linux; fedora because of 
copyright concerns. I have read the project was long dead.


The basic code comes from KR; I remember typing it up myself a long time 
ago. It’s definitely in the 2nd ed, where it is referred to as 'dcl'. 
Section 5.12, p122, in my version.


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Re: [Simh] 'Showstopper'

[dave porter]

Sounds a bit hyped...


Well, no more so than 'The Soul Of A New Machine'.  This
was in the days when the general public were still prepared
to be amazed at, and interested in, stories of programmers
that stayed up all night, etc.

Programmers probably have a cooler image than they did when
I were a lad, but some of the 'outsider mystique' has surely
been lost now that everyone does it  :-)

dave

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[Simh] On number bases

[dave porter]

Octal makes sense for the PDP11 since the instruction
format is divided into 3-bit fields (operand modes,
register specifiers, etc).

Hex makes sense for the VAX since the instruction
format is divided into 4-bit fields (operand modes,
register specifiers, etc).


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Re: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 113, Issue 24

[dave porter]

What does DUP stand for?


Mostly it stands for the fact that all the good 2-character
communication device names were already taken.

In particular we already had a DU11 and a DP11 ...

I think the DUP11 might have been a replacement
for the DP11 (not in any 'compatible' sense), but since
my 1976 Peripherals Handbook has gone missing, I
can't be too sure.

dave


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Re: [Simh] Why 36-bit computing?

[Dave L]

As I recall from way back, wasn't the 36 bit potentially split into 32-bit
data and 4 bit offset to allow fast jump to the next card in the deck on a
branch? Not that (m)any implemented this, but I seem to recall this from my
early days back at ADP 30+ years ago. With the advent of fast memory and
disk drives this effectively became unnecessary but mainframe architecture
took a while to adjust.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com]
On Behalf Of Ian King
Sent: 19 March 2013 19:05
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] Why 36-bit computing?

 -Original Message-
 From: simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-bounces@trailing- 
 edge.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mondy
 Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:37 AM
 To: simh@trailing-edge.com
 Subject: [Simh] Why 36-bit computing?
 
 On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 02:43:10PM +0100, Johnny Billquist wrote:
  [ ... ]
 
  It wasn't just DEC. Back in the day, most everyone used various word 
  lengths that wasn't a power of two. I can't really make many 
  comments on why other word lengths were more popular. I've seen 
  mentioned that floating point formats was pretty nice to do with 
  something like 60 or
  72 bits. Reason being that you had large enough exponents for useful 
  things, and enough precision for most calculations.
  So a word length that related to this made sense.
 
  Number of bits being a power of two started with IBM in the 60s, and 
  became common with the PDP-11 in the 70s. (Or so I'd like to think.)
 
  Johnny
 
 Wikipedia has an article on 36-bit computing:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36-bit
 
 Snipped from the wikipedia article:
 
 [ ... ]
 
 Many early computers aimed at the scientific market had a 36-bit word 
 length. This word length was just long enough to represent positive 
 and negative integers to an accuracy of ten decimal digits (35 bits 
 would have been the minimum). It also allowed the storage of six 
 alphanumeric characters encoded in a six-bit character encoding. Prior 
 to the introduction of computers, the state of the art in precision 
 scientific and engineering calculation was the ten-digit, electrically 
 powered, mechanical calculator, such as those manufactured by Friden, 
 Marchant and Monroe. These calculators had a column of keys for each 
 digit and operators were trained to use all their fingers when 
 entering numbers, so while some specialized calculators had more 
 columns, ten was a practical limit. Computers, as the new competitor, 
 had to match that accuracy. Decimal computers sold in that era, such 
 as the IBM 650 and the IBM 7070, had a word length of ten digits, as did
ENIAC, one of the earliest com  puters.
 
 [ ... ]
 
 By the time IBM introduced System/360, scientific calculations had 
 shifted to floating point and mechanical calculators were no longer a 
 competitor. [...]  [ At which point the advantages of using powers of 
 two became more important than feature parity with mechanical 
 calculators. ]
 

The following is from a biography of Fred Brooks, the project manager for
the IBM 360, on UNC-Chapel Hill's Computer Science department website
(http://www.cs.unc.edu/cms/our-people/faculty/frederick-p.-brooks-jr): 

In 1957, Dr. Brooks and Dura Sweeney invented a Stretch interrupt system
that introduced most features of today's interrupt systems. Dr. Brooks
coined the term computer architecture. His system/360 team first achieved
strict compatibility, upward and downward, in a computer family. His early
concern for word processing led to his selection of the 8-bit byte and the
lowercase alphabet for the System/360, engineering of many new 8-bit
input/output devices, and providing a character-string datatype in PL/I.


Keep in mind that the S/360 was not only targeted for scientific
computation.  It was intended to consolidate IBM's customer bases.  -- Ian 

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[Simh] Booting a pdp from console

[dave porter]

Ron Hudson asked:

Using a real PDP11, I suppose one would examine an address 
and then start execution to boot from a hard drive? The address

being that of some fat fingered  in boot loader?
(no BIOS rom eh?)


It depended on the model.  The older/smaller/cheaper models
had no ROM, so you had to key in a loader.  ROMs were available
as an option on those, some of them diode matrixes that could
be custom-programmed with wire cutters (!).

Later/larger configurations used to come with standard ROMs,
where you'd set on the keys a particular start address and/or
a device number.

Laler still, PDP11s came with microcoded consoles that
spoke to a console terminal instead of having proper keys
and lights. 





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Re: [Simh] ARM simulator?

[Dave]

The SIMH web pages seems to use the terms interchangably...

http://simh.trailing-edge.com/

As does this page:-

http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/emulation.html

Although I would tend to agree with Al, to my mind Emulation mimics almost
exactly all the compenents of a system, whereas simulation mimics some
subset. So SIMH emulates, and data input will be treated identicaaly on real
hardware.

SPICE is a circuit simulator, it omits some aspects of the circuit, Flight
Simulator doesn't actually fly any where...

Dave

 -Original Message-
 From: simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com 
 [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
 Sent: 19 September 2011 22:40
 To: simh@trailing-edge.com
 Subject: Re: [Simh] ARM simulator?
 
 
 On 9/19/11 2:12 PM, dott.Piergiorgio d' Errico wrote:
 
  well, I admit to not knowing the defining, but I can humbly 
 ask you to point to me to the relevant documents
 
 first occurrence of emulator in Datamation was Dec 1964, 
 the term was used in the same way on System 360
 
 RCA says it will implement NPL for its new series of
 computers when the language has been defined and the
 70/45 will have a read-only memory with elementary
 operations to handle programs written for its own 301,
 3301 and 501, as well as IBM's 1401. What's it called
 when you emulate an Emulator?
 
 in CACM, Dec 1965
 
 The Spectra 70/45 Emulator for the RCA 301
 
 and 
 http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/1401_emulator/GC27-6940-4_360
_1401emul.pdf

1401/1440/1460 Emulator Programs


emulator does not appear earlier than this is the periodicals that I
checked.

--

simulator, on the other hand was the widely used term for a program that
simulated
the operation of another system, and goes back to the earliest computers.

I would be interested in seeing a reference to industry-recognized
redefinition of the term emulator
to define a system simulator.




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Re: [Simh] SIMH internals documentation?

[Dave Wade]

I last built it under vs2005 and it worked fine, not tried recently. If I
get time I'll have a look tonight. (note I am in the UK)

Dave
G4UGM

On 8 May 2011 23:12, Richard legal...@xmission.com wrote:


In article C099F659EBBF4EFE99657CB5D581DD46@EMACHINE,

Dave dave.g4...@gmail.com writes:

 The 1130 simulator has a GUI on Windows. Its in the pac...
When I add GUI_SUPPORT to the vcproj that I made for VS2008, all I get
is a console window and a tiny window with japanese text in the title bar.

When I try to use that nmake makefile, it doesn't build.

-- 
The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
http://legalizeadul...
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Re: [Simh] SIMH internals documentation?

[Dave]

Brian

I think I am ok. It was others who were having fun!

One point on the GUI, I wonder if the Hercules approach may be better. This
uses a pipe to communicate with the GUI. There is a startup parameter that
says the Emulator has been started under a GUI and so it should send regular
status info back to the GUI  

Dave   

 -Original Message-
 From: simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com 
 [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Brian Knittel
 Sent: 09 May 2011 19:02
 To: SIMH
 Subject: Re: [Simh] SIMH internals documentation?
 
 
 The 1130 GUI works for me. I build it under VS 2008.
 Dave, do you want the .sln file?
 
 The GUI code, by the way, is Windows-only. I made only vague 
 attempts to abstract it so that it could be reimplemented in 
 other environments.
 
 Brian
 
 
 On 9 May 2011 at 7:34, Dave Wade wrote:
 
  I last built it under vs2005 and it worked fine, not tried 
 recently. 
  If I get time I'll have a look tonight. (note I am in the UK)
  
  Dave
  G4UGM
  
  On 8 May 2011 23:12, Richard legal...@xmission.com wrote:
  
  
  In article C099F659EBBF4EFE99657CB5D581DD46@EMACHINE,
  
  Dave dave.g4...@gmail.com writes:
  
   The 1130 simulator has a GUI on Windows. Its in the pac...
  When I add GUI_SUPPORT to the vcproj that I made for 
 VS2008, all I get 
  is a console window and a tiny window with japanese text in 
 the title 
  bar.
  
  When I try to use that nmake makefile, it doesn't build.
  
  --
  The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline -- DirectX 9 draft 
 available for download
  http://legalizeadul...
  
 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
 _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
 _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
 _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com
 
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Re: [Simh] SIMH internals documentation?

[Dave]

 -Original Message-
 From: simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com 
 [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Richard
 Sent: 08 May 2011 16:54
 To: SIMH
 Subject: Re: [Simh] SIMH internals documentation?
 
 
 
 Speaking of the internal documentation, there is mention in 
 that PDF of certain routines being useful for a GUI based simulator.
 
 Has anyone used SIMH's guts to create a GUI based simulator?
 If so, is it open source so I can look at the implementation?

The 1130 simulator has a GUI on Windows. Its in the package..

 -- 
 The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline -- DirectX 9 draft available 
 for download  
 http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-
pipeline/

  Legalize Adulthood! http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com
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[Simh] Software for 7090 - DSL/90

[Dave]

Folks,
 
 I notice that there is an IBSYS on the software kits page. I was wondering
if any one had any of the other software, especially software that allows
differential equations to be solved. I have the CSMP/1130 code running and
was wondering of any one had any of its predecessors available, such as
PACTOLUS for the IBM1620 or DSL/90 for the 7090. (or even CSMP/360)... 
 
Thanks in advance for any replies
 
Dave
G4UGM
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Re: [Simh] scandocs.trailing-edge.com

[Dave]

 -Original Message-
 From: simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com 
 [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Peter Svensson
 Sent: 30 January 2011 08:19
 To: Al Kossow
 Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
 Subject: Re: [Simh] scandocs.trailing-edge.com
 
 
 On Sat, 29 Jan 2011, Al Kossow wrote:
 
   Sorry to butt in, but how did you OCR those?
  
  Acrobat 9 Pro, which is what I've used on all of the bitsavers docs 
  that have been OCRed, which is quite a few now.
 
 Abbyy FineReader also does a quite good job of OCR:ing old 
 manuals. I have 
 run through old DEC and DG manuals with good results.

The pro version is much better than the free version but it's a lot of
work. However it can learn so if you get mistranslates because of a worn
printer it will learn... 

 
 Peter
 
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Re: [Simh] Question on telnet mantra in simh

[Dave]

 -Original Message-
 From: simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com 
 [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of J. David Bryan
 Sent: 14 November 2010 21:07
 To: SIMH List
 Subject: Re: [Simh] Question on telnet mantra in simh
 
 
 Holger,
 
 
 On Thursday, November 11, 2010 at 21:08, Holger Veit wrote:
 
  I see: here be dragons.
 
 Indeed.
 
 
  As a non-native speaker, I have problems figuring out what was 
  actually intended in RFC854/5 with the WILL/WONT and 
 DO/DONT pairs...
 
 It is not much easier for this native speaker!  ;-)
 
 If I read RFC 854 and RFC 1143 correctly, the basic idea is:
 
  1. Each side starts with the same known, basic 
 configuration: the Network
 Virtual Terminal (NVT).
 
  2. One side may offer to the other side to enable an option 
 with WILL. 
 The other side responds with DO if the offer is accepted and DON'T
 if the offer is rejected.
 
  3. One side may request that the other side enable an option with DO.
 The other side responds with WILL if the request is accepted and
 WON'T if the request is rejected.
 
  4. One side may announce to the other side that it will 
 disable a current
 option with WON'T.  The other side must acknowledge the 
 announcement
 with DON'T.
 
  5. One side may demand that the other side disable a current 
 option with
 DON'T.  The other side must acknowledge the demand with WON'T.
 
  6. Neither side announces the mode it is in.  Only changes 
 of mode are
 negotiated.
 
  7. If a side receives a request to enter a mode it is already in, the
 request is ignored.
 
 
  ...and it seems to me that whatever the correct intention 
 was, simh is 
  broken anyway, beyond incompletely implementing the IAC options 
  negotiation.
 
 Correct.
 
 
  In contrast to my idea of having simh report to the client what it 
  does
  not like (in contrast to your #2.) simh should only tell 
 what it offers 
  to handle, so WILL ECHO, WILL BIN, and WILL SGA appears to 
 be okay, but 
  WILL LINEMODE is not, because simh neither wants to do LINEMODE 
  suboption negotiation at all nor can it do it at all, so it 
 shouldn't 
  announce it.
 
 Correct.
 
 
  However, if the other side would request DO LINEMODE it 
 should deny it 
  with WONT LINEMODE. The other side is a client, though, so 
 should not 
  DO LINEMODE at all, according to RFC1184...
 
 Correct.
 
 
  For the WILL ECHO/BIN/SGA offers, simh should accordingly react 
  properly when the other side does not accept the offer. 
 While a WONT 
  BIN from the client seems to be handled correctly, DO/DONT 
 BIN is not, 
  and the RFC default mode ASCII is not respected. Neither does it 
  respect a WONT ECHO reply to the DO ECHO it demands.
 
 Correct.
 
 
  Now, I am curious why this line is present at all.
 
 Arthur Krewat wrote the following to me in 2007, when I asked 
 that same 
 question:
 
   Most likely because it was easier to hack something together that
worked. Some clients needed those to be offered or they'd puke - I
think they locked up in negotiation and never fully connected.
 
   Solaris telnet worked with it just fine.
 
 
  Has there been any client relying on this, or do all 
 present clients 
  deny this offer (which will then be dropped by simh as it 
 ignores what 
  it does not understand)?
 
 The four clients that I use respond to SIMH negotiation as follows:
 
   Telnet client Negotiation
     
 
   Microsoft Telnet  DONT LINEMODE, DO SGA, DO ECHO, DO 
 BIN, WILL BIN

It should be noted that Windows/2000 telnet behaves differently to
Windows/XP Telnet as I know from my experiences with Hercules which for a
time worked with w2k telnet and not with XP telnet... 

   Microsoft Hyperterm   DONT LINEMODE, DO SGA, DO ECHO, DO 
 BIN, WILL BIN
   Attachmate Crosstalk  DONT LINEMODE, DO SGA, DO ECHO, DO BIN
   AICS QCTERM   DO ECHO, DO SUPPRESS LOCAL ECHO, WONT BIN
 
   -- Dave
 
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