Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 22:00:49 +1000 Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Results of extensive exploration: Clear indications that the numbats using Gentoo spent more time building their systems than annoying people doing real work. I resent the fact that a person is labeled a numbat because of their choice in distribution. Every distribution has its pros and cons, and a single comparison should not be taken as a definitive reason on why or why not you should use a distribution. Lindsay -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
quote who=Lindsay Holmwood I resent the fact that a person is labeled a numbat because of their choice in distribution. Every distribution has its pros and cons, and a single comparison should not be taken as a definitive reason on why or why not you should use a distribution. How could you possibly resent cute'n'furry?! :-) http://www.dpc.wa.gov.au/emblems/numbat.jpg - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia http://lca2004.linux.org.au/ Man, is there some worldwide consipiracy to supply me with doctored dictionaries or something? - Adrian van den Dries -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
No i am a scientist that wasted his time reading an article that was not worth the electrons it was formed with. I use IRIX, windows, gentoo, redhat and a few other things. On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 12:09, Matthew Palmer wrote: On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 05:04:44PM +1000, Ben de Luca wrote: Oops no I am wrong! 3 tests were performed! Count them 3! And it looks like the were run 1 time! I take it that you're a Gentoo user who has been saying to all and sundry you should run Gentoo because it's faster, and now that someone has actual numbers (however obtained) disputing that, you're a little miffed. Well, you know what you can do: run tests of your own. Pull a mindcraft and write the numbers and then run the tests. Or whatever. - Matt -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] (?Courier?) IMAP + Postfix
G'day all... I'm wanting to create an IMAP server that will play nicely with postfix, and am currently considering Courier. It's for a small organisation and network, on a RH9 server that does not have development tools installed (no gcc, etc). (FWIW, 900MHz Celeron hardware - not too grunty, especially with Gnome2 running on top of it.) I guess, I'm looking for a lightweight, robust, binary-distributed imap server. Courier looks great, only there isn't any RPMs available for it. I've downloaded the compressed archive for it, and gone to rpmbuild it, however I get these errors: # rpmbuild -ta courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721.tar.bz2 error: Failed build dependencies: openssl-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 gdbm-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 pam-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 fam-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 postgresql-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 openldap-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 mysql-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 openldap-servers is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 Argh! I don't want ldap, mysql, postgresql, fam, gdb, openSSL anyway! I'm worried if I install all those packages just to satisfy dependencies I'll actually have to install a far greater number of packages than the amount listed above. (I'm wanting to keep things compact here.) Any suggestion? I was hoping to go down the Courier+Maildrop+Postfix path, but I'm happy to have alternatives. TIA... Mike mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] (?Courier?) IMAP + Postfix
how about wu-imap? it comes with Redhat G'day all... I'm wanting to create an IMAP server that will play nicely with postfix, and am currently considering Courier. It's for a small organisation and network, on a RH9 server that does not have development tools installed (no gcc, etc). (FWIW, 900MHz Celeron hardware - not too grunty, especially with Gnome2 running on top of it.) I guess, I'm looking for a lightweight, robust, binary-distributed imap server. Courier looks great, only there isn't any RPMs available for it. I've downloaded the compressed archive for it, and gone to rpmbuild it, however I get these errors: # rpmbuild -ta courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721.tar.bz2 error: Failed build dependencies: openssl-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 gdbm-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 pam-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 fam-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 postgresql-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 openldap-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 mysql-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 openldap-servers is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 Argh! I don't want ldap, mysql, postgresql, fam, gdb, openSSL anyway! I'm worried if I install all those packages just to satisfy dependencies I'll actually have to install a far greater number of packages than the amount listed above. (I'm wanting to keep things compact here.) Any suggestion? I was hoping to go down the Courier+Maildrop+Postfix path, but I'm happy to have alternatives. TIA... Mike mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- Regards, Kevin Saenz Spinaweb I.T consultants Ph: 02 4620 5130 Fax: 02 4625 9243 Mobile: 0418455661 Web: http://www.spinaweb.com.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] (?Courier?) IMAP + Postfix
quote who=[EMAIL PROTECTED] Courier looks great, only there isn't any RPMs available for it. I'm sure there are, perhaps check the courier mailing lists to see if some nice contributor has made his/hers available? # rpmbuild -ta courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721.tar.bz2 error: Failed build dependencies: Argh! I don't want ldap, mysql, postgresql, fam, gdb, openSSL anyway! I'm worried if I install all those packages just to satisfy dependencies I'll actually have to install a far greater number of packages than the amount listed above. (I'm wanting to keep things compact here.) They're just build dependencies, you won't actually need all of those when installing it (depending on how your courier source package was built). Any suggestion? I was hoping to go down the Courier+Maildrop+Postfix path, but I'm happy to have alternatives. I haven't used maildrop very often, but I have been incredibly happy with the postfix/courier team for mta/pop/imap. If you don't require things like procmail, or users reading their mail on the server, you could always try cyrus as the imap server. - Jeff -- Get Informed: SCO vs. IBMhttp://sco.iwethey.org/ Money can't buy me grok. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] (?Courier?) IMAP + Postfix
Yeah, WU-IMAP (the package name is just `imap') works well with Postfix. However, it does fall under the `made by University of Washington, therefore flaming pile of poo' rule. You might want to check ouu dovecot, which replaces (wu)imap in the next Red Hat Linux release. The .src.rpm would probably rebuild find on RHL 9. Mike __ Mike MacCana ConsultantRHCE, MCSE, MCP+I Cybersource: Providing Quality IT Professional Services for 11 Years Specialists in Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web Application Development Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne. Ph : 03 9621 2377 Fax: 03 9621 2477 On 4 Aug 2003, Kevin Saenz wrote: how about wu-imap? it comes with Redhat G'day all... I'm wanting to create an IMAP server that will play nicely with postfix, and am currently considering Courier. It's for a small organisation and network, on a RH9 server that does not have development tools installed (no gcc, etc). (FWIW, 900MHz Celeron hardware - not too grunty, especially with Gnome2 running on top of it.) I guess, I'm looking for a lightweight, robust, binary-distributed imap server. Courier looks great, only there isn't any RPMs available for it. I've downloaded the compressed archive for it, and gone to rpmbuild it, however I get these errors: # rpmbuild -ta courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721.tar.bz2 error: Failed build dependencies: openssl-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 gdbm-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 pam-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 fam-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 postgresql-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 openldap-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 mysql-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 openldap-servers is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 Argh! I don't want ldap, mysql, postgresql, fam, gdb, openSSL anyway! I'm worried if I install all those packages just to satisfy dependencies I'll actually have to install a far greater number of packages than the amount listed above. (I'm wanting to keep things compact here.) Any suggestion? I was hoping to go down the Courier+Maildrop+Postfix path, but I'm happy to have alternatives. TIA... Mike mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- Regards, Kevin Saenz Spinaweb I.T consultants Ph: 02 4620 5130 Fax: 02 4625 9243 Mobile: 0418455661 Web: http://www.spinaweb.com.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 17:34, Jeff Waugh wrote: How could you possibly resent cute'n'furry?! :-) http://www.dpc.wa.gov.au/emblems/numbat.jpg Got a copy? I get connection refused... Rob -- GPG key available at: http://members.aardvark.net.au/lifeless/keys.txt. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] xmms problems with multiple users
Laurie Savage wrote: I tried both of your ideas with no success. /sbin/fuser -v /dev/dsp returned no output and cat /dev/urandom /dev/dsp issued white noise, but if fuser -v /dev/dsp didn't return any error then no other application is using /dev/dsp. If cat /dev/urandom /dev/dsp returns any form of noise, then you can access the sound card and it would have to be a problem with XMMS. Try using mpg321/mpg123 to play a file, if that works -- then there may be something wrong with the xmms output plugins. Further more, yes -- the cat command should return white noise / a static sort of noise. This is because /dev/urandom generates random garbage that can be handy, say when generating a gpg key. Run cat /dev/urandom, and you will see that you are just piping random bytes to your sound card. :-) - Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] (?Courier?) IMAP + Postfix
G'day... how about wu-imap? it comes with Redhat I guess because I perceive Courier and Cyrus to hold better designs and smaller footprints. However, for sake of simplicity - I'll reconsider. :) Mike -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] xmms problems with multiple users
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/08/2003 08:39:32 PM: Laurie Savage wrote: I tried both of your ideas with no success. /sbin/fuser -v /dev/dsp returned no output and cat /dev/urandom /dev/dsp issued white noise, but --snip-- Further more, yes -- the cat command should return white noise / a static sort of noise. This is because /dev/urandom generates random garbage that can be handy, say when generating a gpg key. It should be noted that /dev/urandom is not as secure for encryption as /dev/random 'man 4 random' for the answer. Cheers, Scott -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
Its bigots like you who really ruin a community. I know you don't like gentoo, we all know it. But grow up. If you don't want to play with the other kids would you mind staying indoors then? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Waugh Sent: Sunday, 3 August 2003 10:01 PM To: slug Subject: Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-) quote who=Dion I would like to see a more extensive exploration of the gains and/or losses in a Gentoo style distribution. Results of extensive exploration: Clear indications that the numbats using Gentoo spent more time building their systems than annoying people doing real work. - Jeff :-) -- Get Informed: SCO vs. IBM http://sco.iwethey.org/ If Perl is gaffer, and Python is Magic Tape, then Ruby is self-adhesive plate gold. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik de Castro Lopo Sent: Sunday, 3 August 2003 6:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-) On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 17:04:44 +1000 Ben de Luca [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oops no I am wrong! 3 tests were performed! Count them 3! And it looks like the were run 1 time! Thats a pretty defensive posture to be taking isn't it? I wasn't really attacking your post more the article, It was flawed in so many ways its not funny. If you feel strongly enough that the test in the article is flawed, you should feel free to pursure it. My suggestion is that you plan the testing to be carried out before hand, post it here for comments on the methodology and when that seems sound then run your tests. Its not that I just feel that, I and you both know they are flawed. So I am offering up my time to run the tests at work. What things are suggested as to what should be done. I think the test should use the same hardware at least, I will run it multiple times. That for any files that are opened they should be on a read only part ion that is not the one the install is on, hence negating the effects of disk on the test. That the tests should be repeated enough times? Any one know how to do a Power analysis so I know we will get useful results? I am interested in the gentoo what optimizations flags would be suggest? Just 03? What distro's will race? Should I turn of systems services? I would hate a cron to skew the results? Or should I just leave the default service settings? I guess I should provide details of any changes I make? So the tests can be compared? Should I use different hardware? I can get my hands on 386s-p4 and athlons ect? My alpha is in storage at the moment. Though I should have a g4 rather soon. What specific tests should I run? I would like to test, for things other than just opening a spread sheet? How about Hitting a db? X rendering? File access? Compiling a kernel? Any other thoughts? Ben de Luca -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] postifx, sendmail, php config files
Oops, in my reticence I forgot to copy the list. Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:50:55 +1000 To: Voytek Eymont [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Matt M [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SLUG] postifx, sendmail, php config files Have a look around your system. Postfix should provide a replacement sendmail executable - it's just a wrapper to Postfix that accepts same/similar arguments to Sendmail itself. Cheers, Matt At 21:07 4/08/2003, you wrote: I have RH73 with Postfix as MTA, looking at various conf files for php-related stuff, some of them want to know 'path to sendmail' or 'sendmail options', what is one supposed to with that ? does sendmail still gets called (as a 'one time execution' rather than deamon..?) ; For Unix only. You may supply arguments as well (default: 'sendmail -t -i'). ;sendmail_path = Voytek Eymont -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
Please be careful with your quoting, for someone not new to this thread it would be very difficult to tell what you wrote and what I wrote. The problem is your mail client. Almost any other client on the planet can do a better job than the one you are using. On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:34:45 +1000 Ben de Luca [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't really attacking your post more the article, It was flawed in so many ways its not funny. I was commenting about the obvious outrage in your post. Its not that I just feel that, I and you both know they are flawed. If the advantages of something like Gentoo was as obvious as Gentoo's proponents suggest, I would expect them to jump out and grab me by the throat. They didn't. So I am offering up my time to run the tests at work. What things are suggested as to what should be done. I think the test should use the same hardware at least, I will run it multiple times. As I suggested, this test dones't require much in the way of resources. In fact, the test could easily be done on the same machine. I would even suggest that they be done on the same partitions. Ie: 0) Install distro #1 1) Test distro #1 2) Blow away distro #1 3) Install distro #2 and so on. That for any files that are opened they should be on a read only part ion that is not the one the install is on, hence negating the effects of disk on the test. If they are running on the same disk on the same partition (at different times) the disk can be discounted. That the tests should be repeated enough times? Any one know how to do a Power analysis so I know we will get useful results? The ideal benchmark to run on this is something like nbench: http://www.tux.org/~mayer/linux/bmark.html Other tests would include a kernel compile (using the same .config file). Tests like timing open time of some_app are mostly useless. I am interested in the gentoo what optimizations flags would be suggest? Just 03? Ask the Gentoo people. What distro's will race? Should I turn of systems services? I would hate a cron to skew the results? Or should I just leave the default service settings? Regardless of what the setup is, it should be the same across all distros. I guess I should provide details of any changes I make? So the tests can be compared? Yes, yes. Should I use different hardware? That only makes it more difficult. Pick one current pretty much standard machine. What specific tests should I run? I would like to test, for things other than just opening a spread sheet? OPenning is speadsheet is a particularly stupid test. How about Hitting a db? Too hard. X rendering? Possibly, but I don't know of any good benchmarking program. File access? Too artificial. Compiling a kernel? That is a good test because a developer does a lot of compiling. By do look at nnbench (above). Erik -- +---+ Erik de Castro Lopo [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Yes it's valid) +---+ The RIAA is obsessed to the point of comedy with the frustration of having its rules broken, without considering whether such rules might be standing in the way of increased revenues. Indeed, Napster and Gnutella may turn out to be the two best music-marketing gimmicks yet devised, if only the RIAA would take its head out of its ass long enough to realise it. -- Thomas C Greene on www.theregister.co.uk -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/08/2003 09:34:45 PM: --snip-- What specific tests should I run? I would like to test, for things other than just opening a spread sheet? How about Hitting a db? X rendering? File access? Compiling a kernel? Any other thoughts? For the desktop: I would like to see if there is any speed difference in OpenGL Games. I'm not sure how many Linux gamers there are, but that would convince me which distro is the best for my use. Quake 3 Arena Unreal Tournament 2003 would be good choices. For the Server: Perhaps things like 10 users retriving email then up the number to 100-150, 10 hits on a webpage then up the numbers again etc. Making an enourmous encryption key (would this be considered accurate since it gets it from /dev/random??). Multiple hits on an sql database from the webpage? I think the best benchmarking tests are real life tests and stressing them. (If those numbers would be considered stressing??) If I am going it install a high load email server, every little speed optimisation counts. Cheers, Scott -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/08/2003 09:34:45 PM: --snip-- What specific tests should I run? I would like to test, for things other than just opening a spread sheet? How about Hitting a db? X rendering? File access? Compiling a kernel? Any other thoughts? Doh, Just after I sent that one How about conversion utilities, .wav -- .mp3 (and/or to .ogg) dvd -- mpeg4, and a bmp to jpeg Cheers, Scott -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] multiple recursive s'n'replace, what's a good tool ?
what's the recommendation for a m-r-s-r tool ? I'm looking to replace multiple string pairs in some web files. all I need is simple 'string a' for 'string b' swap, every instance, replace ? lreplace ? Voytek Eymont -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] multiple recursive s'n'replace, what's a good tool ?
I generally use: perl -pi -e 's/string a/string b/g' file1 file2 etc To recurse directories, use find and xargs to supply the file list on the command line: find /some/dir -type f -print0 | xargs -0 perl -pi -e 's/string a/string b/g' It would only take a few minutes to wrap that up as a single command line utility if you do it often enough to matter. Andrew On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Voytek Eymont wrote: what's the recommendation for a m-r-s-r tool ? I'm looking to replace multiple string pairs in some web files. all I need is simple 'string a' for 'string b' swap, every instance, replace ? lreplace ? Voytek Eymont -- No added Sugar. Not tested on animals. May contain traces of Nuts. If irritation occurs, discontinue use. --- Andrew McNaughton In Sydney Working on a Product Recommender System [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: +61 422 753 792 http://staff.scoop.co.nz/andrew/cv.doc -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 4 August 2003 10:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/08/2003 09:34:45 PM: --snip-- What specific tests should I run? I would like to test, for things other than just opening a spread sheet? How about Hitting a db? X rendering? File access? Compiling a kernel? Any other thoughts? For the desktop: I would like to see if there is any speed difference in OpenGL Games. I'm not sure how many Linux gamers there are, but that would convince me which distro is the best for my use. Quake 3 Arena Unreal Tournament 2003 would be good choices. I can do q3a but I will only be able to get the demo for UT. Should I run with or with out sound? I guess I will do both. For the Server: Perhaps things like 10 users retriving email then up the number to 100-150, 10 hits on a webpage then up the numbers again etc. Making an enourmous encryption key (would this be considered accurate since it gets it from /dev/random??). Multiple hits on an sql database from the webpage? I think the best benchmarking tests are real life tests and stressing them. (If those numbers would be considered stressing??) If I am going it install a high load email server, every little speed optimisation counts. It is not easy to simulate tasks Like this, I guess I could script some thing up to hit it and then include the scripts as part of the test. Its easier to test simple things. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
My wife does some teaching out at USW. They have receintly told her that they will no longer be issueing paper pay slips. They will be online and she will be required to use IE5 to read them. She has told them that she uses Linux and is waiting for them to get back to her. Now this is good. Nobody has /ever/ told my wife that she is required to do something she doesn't want to do and retained the use of all their limbs. She will take this to the union, she'll take it as far up the chain as far she can go. She will spend hours on the phone arguing. I can hear it now: Give me your name, email me a copy of your departments complaint form, give me the phone number of the Universities legal department and connect me with your supervisor *NOW!*. Will she be wasting her time? Does anybody know any sys admins at UWS who might help? Anybody got any strategys or amunition for her? I put MSWord under wine on her machine after years of argueing with people out at UWS who seem to know no other document format. I could do the same with IE5. But not without a fight. Geoffrey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
If its IE5 they want, I am sure a recent build of phoenix with the java and flash plugins would conform to all the IE5 buggy standards. I doubt they bother enforcing it in the web pages, they are just trying to clear out the v4 neanderthals dave - Original Message - From: Geoffrey Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will she be wasting her time? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] multiple recursive s'n'replace, what's a good tool ?
At Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:18:19 , Voytek Eymont wrote: what's the recommendation for a m-r-s-r tool ? I'm looking to replace multiple string pairs in some web files. all I need is simple 'string a' for 'string b' swap, every instance, For an interactive tool, you can use emacs' dired mode to select files (or directory trees). 'Q' will run a regex search/replace over the selected files. (to get into dired mode, just File-open (or C-x C-f) a directory) -- - Gus -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
Geoffrey Robertson said: My wife does some teaching out at USW. They have receintly told her that they will no longer be issueing paper pay slips. They will be online and she will be required to use IE5 to read them. She has told them that she uses Linux and is waiting for them to get back to her. I think the more interesting question is the legality of doing this. AFAIK they must provide a pay slip and even a written record of all the super deductions for the month. You can't require people to have to outlay money to check pay slips. Just checked with our office and they maintain that this would be illegal for them. Simon Bryan IT Manager OLMC Parramatta -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
-= Geoffrey Robertson said: -= My wife does some teaching out at USW. They have -= receintly told her -= that they will no longer be issueing paper pay slips. -= They will be -= online and she will be required to use IE5 to read -= them. She has -= told them that she uses Linux and is waiting for them to -= get back to -= her. -= -= I think the more interesting question is the legality of -= doing this. AFAIK they must provide a pay slip and even a -= written record of all the super deductions for the month. -= You can't require people to have to outlay money to check -= pay slips. Just checked with our office and they maintain -= that this would be illegal for them. Geoffery, what pay system are they using ? If it's PayGlobal (which I administer for another University), the browser is irrelevant, and the payslips are actually in PDF format. Email me off-list if she has any problems... Jon -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Jon Biddell wrote: -= Geoffrey Robertson said: -= My wife does some teaching out at USW. They have -= receintly told her -= that they will no longer be issueing paper pay slips. -= They will be -= online and she will be required to use IE5 to read -= them. She has -= -= I think the more interesting question is the legality of -= doing this. AFAIK they must provide a pay slip and even a -= written record of all the super deductions for the month. -= You can't require people to have to outlay money to check -= pay slips. Just checked with our office and they maintain -= that this would be illegal for them. Geoffery, what pay system are they using ? If it's PayGlobal (which I administer for another University), the browser is irrelevant, and the payslips are actually in PDF format. soapbox Surely the more interesting aspect is being forced to pay a M$ tax simply to be on someones payroll? If Mrs.Robertson is the sort of person who is willing to be the dog at this bone, we could even establish some sort of legal precedent. Like all of us, I'm sick of being told that I *must* use Microsoft products simply because some clown has been brainwashed to believe that it's the only way of doing things, much less the best way. Even the ATO has been guilty of this crap, as well as some banks etc. It's probably too much to expect politicians to understand that being in the thrall of one (foreign) company is a BAD_IDEA (tm), but perhaps industrial due-process may see it more realistically. /soapbox -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
-= soapbox -= Surely the more interesting aspect is being forced to pay a -= M$ tax simply to be on someones payroll? -= -= If Mrs.Robertson is the sort of person who is willing to be -= the dog at this bone, we could even establish some sort of -= legal precedent. Like all of us, I'm sick of being told -= that I *must* use Microsoft products simply because some -= clown has been brainwashed to believe that it's the only -= way of doing things, much less the best way. -= -= Even the ATO has been guilty of this crap, as well as some -= banks etc. -= -= It's probably too much to expect politicians to understand -= that being in the thrall of one (foreign) company is a -= BAD_IDEA (tm), but perhaps industrial due-process may see -= it more realistically. /soapbox Whoa Down boy SIT !!! Good sysadmin.. I fully agree - I was only proposing a possible immediate solution to the problem while Mrs Robertson stuck it to the bastards...:-) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] (?Courier?) IMAP + Postfix
G'day... You might want to check ouu dovecot, which replaces (wu)imap in the next Red Hat Linux release. The .src.rpm would probably rebuild find on RHL 9. ... or I can just download the RH9 binary RPMS... :) Warmest regards Mike --- Michael S. E. Kraus Network Administrator Capital Holdings Group (NSW) Pty Ltd p: (02) 9955 8000-- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
The bigger picture here is requiring the employee to use a computer *at all* to check payslips. I would assume that by only providing payslips electronically, UWS must assume that all employees have access to a suitable computer at their workplace (after all, in my experience, payslips don't get sent home, but to your office pigeon hole) or as part of their employment agreement. I guess if you are a casual/part-time employee then you may not have a permanent office PC or workstation, but you ought to have some accesss to a shared office environment. (UWS I would imagine have to cater for people in all sorts of situations possibly with physical disabilities restricting their ability to use a PC, or even people such as gardeners or cleaning staff that never have used a PC) (I know this is sidestepping the must-use-MS issue) Martin Visser ,CISSP Network and Security Consultant Technology Infrastructure - Consulting Integration HP Services 3 Richardson Place North Ryde, Sydney NSW 2113, Australia Phone *: +61-2-9022-1670Mobile *: +61-411-254-513 Fax 7: +61-2-9022-1800 E-mail * : martin.visserAThp.com -Original Message- From: David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 5 August 2003 9:42 AM To: Jon Biddell Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Jon Biddell wrote: -= Geoffrey Robertson said: -= My wife does some teaching out at USW. They have -= receintly told her -= that they will no longer be issueing paper pay slips. -= They will be -= online and she will be required to use IE5 to read -= them. She has -= -= I think the more interesting question is the legality of -= doing this. AFAIK they must provide a pay slip and even a -= written record of all the super deductions for the month. -= You can't require people to have to outlay money to check -= pay slips. Just checked with our office and they maintain -= that this would be illegal for them. Geoffery, what pay system are they using ? If it's PayGlobal (which I administer for another University), the browser is irrelevant, and the payslips are actually in PDF format. soapbox Surely the more interesting aspect is being forced to pay a M$ tax simply to be on someones payroll? If Mrs.Robertson is the sort of person who is willing to be the dog at this bone, we could even establish some sort of legal precedent. Like all of us, I'm sick of being told that I *must* use Microsoft products simply because some clown has been brainwashed to believe that it's the only way of doing things, much less the best way. Even the ATO has been guilty of this crap, as well as some banks etc. It's probably too much to expect politicians to understand that being in the thrall of one (foreign) company is a BAD_IDEA (tm), but perhaps industrial due-process may see it more realistically. /soapbox -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] UPS for Linux environment
-= Can anyone recommend a UPS for a linux environment? -= -= Thanks I'm tempted to say one with BIG batteries, but seriously, folks, I'm running an APC UPS at home and the monitoring software works great. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
quote who=Angus Lees I was considering packaging an iexplore installer for Debian yesterday. (download the freely available ie*.exe archive on package install and set it up under a wine-using shell wrapper) Oooh, you should get in touch with James Gregory, who was doing similar stuff for Mandrake RPMs. - Jeff -- Get Informed: SCO vs. IBMhttp://sco.iwethey.org/ Toothpaste is the most important meal of the day. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
Doesn't that violate the whole, debian is free software only thing? Is not that one of the things that makes debian good? On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 10:01, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Angus Lees I was considering packaging an iexplore installer for Debian yesterday. (download the freely available ie*.exe archive on package install and set it up under a wine-using shell wrapper) Oooh, you should get in touch with James Gregory, who was doing similar stuff for Mandrake RPMs. - Jeff -- Get Informed: SCO vs. IBMhttp://sco.iwethey.org/ Toothpaste is the most important meal of the day. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] UWS IE5 Policy
quote who=DE LUCA Ben Doesn't that violate the whole, debian is free software only thing? If something like this were even added to Debian, it would be added to non-free (or perhaps contrib, given that the package itself doesn't actually contain non-free software, but that's another flamewar). Is not that one of the things that makes debian good? Sure, not only is Debian a completely Free operating system as defined by the DFSG, but there is also recognition that sometimes, non-Free software must be used to solve a problem, and the project provides a method for 'embracing and extending' it. - Jeff -- Get Informed: SCO vs. IBMhttp://sco.iwethey.org/ I don't even understand offside so I'm not likely to understand a Manchester United contract. - Posh Spice -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] (?Courier?) IMAP + Postfix
When I investigated this the other imap servers (ie other than courier) did not do Maildir. If this is not an issue then you're fine with wu-imap. Stu Kevin Saenz wrote: how about wu-imap? it comes with Redhat G'day all... I'm wanting to create an IMAP server that will play nicely with postfix, and am currently considering Courier. It's for a small organisation and network, on a RH9 server that does not have development tools installed (no gcc, etc). (FWIW, 900MHz Celeron hardware - not too grunty, especially with Gnome2 running on top of it.) I guess, I'm looking for a lightweight, robust, binary-distributed imap server. Courier looks great, only there isn't any RPMs available for it. I've downloaded the compressed archive for it, and gone to rpmbuild it, however I get these errors: # rpmbuild -ta courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721.tar.bz2 error: Failed build dependencies: openssl-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 gdbm-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 pam-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 fam-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 postgresql-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 openldap-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 mysql-devel is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 openldap-servers is needed by courier-imap-2.0.0.20030721-1.9 Argh! I don't want ldap, mysql, postgresql, fam, gdb, openSSL anyway! I'm worried if I install all those packages just to satisfy dependencies I'll actually have to install a far greater number of packages than the amount listed above. (I'm wanting to keep things compact here.) Any suggestion? I was hoping to go down the Courier+Maildrop+Postfix path, but I'm happy to have alternatives. TIA... Mike mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
This is an interesting POV. We currently have about 40 Linux boxes in high load production environments, and racking my brian I can't think of a scenario where a 0.1% increase in performance (for performance alone not considering interoperability or security for example) would be worth more than a very quick update. Perhaps you could give us some examples in the real world? Brett DE LUCA Ben wrote: If you need to handle more load, throw another cpu, more ram or another box at the problem. Some times this is not possible, that even a 0.1% increase in performance is worth it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Benefits of source distro (Gentoo) somewhat elusive :-)
quote who=DE LUCA Ben If you need to handle more load, throw another cpu, more ram or another box at the problem. Some times this is not possible, that even a 0.1% increase in performance is worth it. If you're talking about film, audio or image processing, 3d rendering, or anything that has a high applicability of line-by-line intensive maths/loop optimisations, then sure, you may find some advantage here, if your volume is large enough that 0.1% would have a reasonable effect. This would be appropriate at a rendering farm at Dreamworks, or a content creator's 3d imaging preview software, rather than Mum's MP3 encoder. If you're talking about number crunching stock market data, doing massive biotech database mangling, running a huge Internet indexing and spidering system, or mapping the moon, you can make algorithmic or architectural changes to your code - potentially using 'grid' or distributed processing, or whatever the latest craze is. This is big stuff that humans do, not compilers. If you're talking about a mail server, you can change a DNS record and add a machine to the pool. And indeed, this was the original poster's problem area. Don't believe the hype. - Jeff -- Get Informed: SCO vs. IBMhttp://sco.iwethey.org/ Think video. Think text flickering over your walls. Think games at work. Think anything where a staid, link-based browser is useless. This person wrote for Ab Fab, right? - Rich Welykochy -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
