RE: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
Stuart == Stuart Guthrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Stuart On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 22:42, Jon Biddell wrote: Hmmm... I seem to remember reading a laptop review (PC Authority or APC) that said that Pioneer's build quality was quastionable for the price. Stuart Umm, I've got one. You get what you pay for (plus some in my judgement). I also have one -- 2G P4 (not the mobile one). PCMCIA works, video works, audio works --- It's currently running Debian. Only problem is that recent kernels have mucked up the cd-recording, so I have to reboot in 2.4.19 to burn a CD. Otherwise, it's running 2.5.64, and I'm currently typing this email on it via the wireless network at home. -- Dr Peter Chubb [EMAIL PROTECTED] You are lost in a maze of BitKeeper repositories, all almost the same. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
I wasn't refering to their capabilities, I was refering to their physical build - apparently the keyboards (so the review said) are prone to popping out of the case at the rear left side, and they were generally of lower quality than the other no name notebooks tested. Still, if they're cheap... Pity they don't use the Pentium Mobile processor tho... =Stuart On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 22:42, Jon Biddell wrote: = Hmmm... I seem to remember reading a laptop review (PC =Authority or = APC) that said that Pioneer's build quality was =quastionable for the = price. = =Stuart Umm, I've got one. You get what you pay for (plus some in my =Stuart judgement). = =I also have one -- 2G P4 (not the mobile one). PCMCIA works, =video works, audio works --- It's currently running Debian. =Only problem is that recent kernels have mucked up the =cd-recording, so I have to reboot in 2.4.19 to burn a CD. =Otherwise, it's running 2.5.64, and I'm currently typing this =email on it via the wireless network at home. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
on Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:22:03PM +1100, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why take delivery of a box with the spam os on it? I bought my last two boxes without any software at all; and expect to continue purchasing that way Thats my thought too. If they wont sell you a box without and OS go else where. That's all well and good - but if you wont a decent laptop from a decent company with a good warranty (like dell provides) then you have to compromise. I don't know about you... But I wouldn't be caught buying some no name laptop that is going to fall apart a day after the warranty expires just because they wont sell me the machine without the OS I want on it. Yes your thoughts may be ok when buying a desktop machine - but certainly not for laptops. Regards, AW. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
Adam W wrote: on Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:22:03PM +1100, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why take delivery of a box with the spam os on it? I bought my last two boxes without any software at all; and expect to continue purchasing that way Thats my thought too. If they wont sell you a box without and OS go else where. That's all well and good - but if you wont a decent laptop from a decent company with a good warranty (like dell provides) then you have to compromise. I don't know about you... But I wouldn't be caught buying some no name laptop that is going to fall apart a day after the warranty expires just because they wont sell me the machine without the OS I want on it. Yes your thoughts may be ok when buying a desktop machine - but certainly not for laptops. Regards, AW. Fair point, but I know of at least one no name laptop which you could buy with no OS, extend the warranty to 3 years (on-site warranty) and still save a couple of hundred dollars over a laptop with M$ installed. It's a no name laptop but with 3 yr warranty, it's gotta be fairly safe. Also, I thought Dell were starting to offer no-OS machines? Maybe that's just on their servers. Fil -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 10:12:52PM +1100, Phil Scarratt wrote: Fair point, but I know of at least one no name laptop which you could buy with no OS, extend the warranty to 3 years (on-site warranty) and still save a couple of hundred dollars over a laptop with M$ installed. I've got to ask - who's that then ? cheers, Chris (who may be in the market for a laptop soon) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
Pioneer Computers (http://www.pioneercomputers.com.au) in Alexandria. I've no idea what the laptops are like as I have never used them personally (or any laptop for that matter) but an extended warranty can give some peace of mind. Fil Chris Samuel wrote: On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 10:12:52PM +1100, Phil Scarratt wrote: Fair point, but I know of at least one no name laptop which you could buy with no OS, extend the warranty to 3 years (on-site warranty) and still save a couple of hundred dollars over a laptop with M$ installed. I've got to ask - who's that then ? cheers, Chris (who may be in the market for a laptop soon) -- Phil Scarratt Draxsen Technologies IT Contractor/Consultant 0403 53 12 71 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
Hmmm... I seem to remember reading a laptop review (PC Authority or APC) that said that Pioneer's build quality was quastionable for the price. =Pioneer Computers (http://www.pioneercomputers.com.au) in Alexandria. =I've no idea what the laptops are like as I have never used them =personally (or any laptop for that matter) but an extended =warranty can =give some peace of mind. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
Also, I thought Dell were starting to offer no-OS machines? Maybe that's just on their servers. Yeah this is their server models. Its actually the default option - they come with no OS unless otherwise stated. But no hope for the laptops/desktops going this way. Cheers AW -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 22:42, Jon Biddell wrote: Hmmm... I seem to remember reading a laptop review (PC Authority or APC) that said that Pioneer's build quality was quastionable for the price. Umm, I've got one. You get what you pay for (plus some in my judgement). The PIII is NOT a mobile PIII so you get very short battery life and a noisier than usual fan. On the upside, for just over $2K you get a beefed up very fast development/demo environment. Make sure where ever you go there is power! Linux: Loaded Mandrake 9.0, recognised everything except the winmodem off the bat. Got the winmodem working after some effort and lots of googling. Spec (Sep 2002 purchased) PIII 1.2Ghz, 512Mb, 20Gb, 14 TFT, sound, CD, LAN, WinModem, 2xUSB. Whats missing: PCMCIA. Do I miss it? No. My only issue is wifi but thats down the track. I can get a USB wifi gadget I guess. Oh, and yes, I did purchase with NO Windows installed. Yay. Stu -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
Also, I thought Dell were starting to offer no-OS machines? Maybe that's just on their servers. Technically, Dell's license with MS doesn't allow Dell to offer no-OS machines. Brilliantly, in markets where this matters Dell will sell you a machine with FreeDOS installed. Dell don't sell no-OS machines to the retail trade. They are simply on too low margins to deal with the inevitable support calls. They are happy to see this high-cost business go elsewhere. Hopefully the day will come when Dell will see profit rather than cost in offering a Linux distribution as a operating system choice across their retail desktop range. To Dell's credit, they have at least put their toe in the Linux desktop market, even if they then found sales too disappointing to continue. Yeah this is their server models. Its actually the default option - they come with no OS unless otherwise stated. But no hope for the laptops/desktops going this way. Not quite right. Dell will ship FreeDOS desktops and laptops in their sales programmes aimed at corporates and schools. If fact, they'll go further and install any image you supply. Under these programmes tech support is available for Windows images on all platforms and Red Hat Linux images on most platforms. Images for other OSs or other platforms will be installed but are not supported (that's right, there's no tech support for FreeDOS). What this means for you and me is that Dell tests Red Hat Linux on some of its desktop models. If you can work out whcih these are then you can but a Dell machine knowing that at least one Linux distribution will run on it and that the fixes for making RHL run on the machine are documented on the Dell website. Those fixes usually appear promptly in RHL releases and in the program source code. -- Glen Turner(08) 8303 3936 or +61 8 8303 3936 Australian Academic and Research Network www.aarnet.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
quote who=Peter Domachuk My question to the forum is: What degree of sucess has anyone out there had with refunding the value of thier OEM copy of windows, be it from the manufacturer of Microsoft itself? Is Microsoft even approachable in this issue? I'm happy to hear any and all experiences, anything will help at this point. Morning Peter, long time no see, :-) Basically, what will happen is that Dell will direct you to Microsoft, and Microsoft will direct you to Dell. It is unclear whose responsibility the refunds are, and they use this to great effect. I have not heard of too many successful refund requests... If you think that SLUG can help out in any way, lend its name to your cause, whatever, please let us know. Thanks, - Jeff -- Boys will be boys, hackers will be hackers, geeks will be geeks, and cyberpunks will always just be ravers with Macintoshes. - Monkey Master, Crackmonkey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
There are sites on the web that detail the best methods to use, one thing they say is do it all in writting. BB on Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:55:42AM +1100, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Peter Domachuk My question to the forum is: What degree of sucess has anyone out there had with refunding the value of thier OEM copy of windows, be it from the manufacturer of Microsoft itself? Is Microsoft even approachable in this issue? I'm happy to hear any and all experiences, anything will help at this point. Morning Peter, long time no see, :-) Basically, what will happen is that Dell will direct you to Microsoft, and Microsoft will direct you to Dell. It is unclear whose responsibility the refunds are, and they use this to great effect. I have not heard of too many successful refund requests... If you think that SLUG can help out in any way, lend its name to your cause, whatever, please let us know. Thanks, - Jeff -- Boys will be boys, hackers will be hackers, geeks will be geeks, and cyberpunks will always just be ravers with Macintoshes. - Monkey Master, Crackmonkey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
I've read that IBM and Dell only pay between 10 and 20 US for each copy of windows so good luck. If you really want to try, make it formal, give them a chance to reply and inform them that you will, if unsatisfied, take them to some consumer body such as the Dept. of Consumer Affairs in NSW. Really, I think there is policy just to put off these sort of requests indefinately, until a govt body does something. Still as they say, squeaky wheel gets the grease. A better way of complaining is to just convert 10 friends/associates to Open Office or Star Office for every copy of windows you are forced to buy. This causes considerable pain to the originating OS creator as the only two areas making the bucks are the windows division and the office division. This tactic, whilst not as satisfying has a better end result. Stu On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:39, Peter Domachuk wrote: G'day All, I have recently purchased a Dell laptop which is happily running RH8.0, which is all good. I wish to get my money back on the OEM copy of XP Home that came with the system. I repartitioned the disk as soon as it was out of the box, I've not opened any packaging, and indeed, I've not run a Microsoft product on the system. These precautions were farily academic however, since I can't even get Dell to return my phone calls. My question to the forum is: What degree of sucess has anyone out there had with refunding the value of thier OEM copy of windows, be it from the manufacturer of Microsoft itself? Is Microsoft even approachable in this issue? I'm happy to hear any and all experiences, anything will help at this point. Much obliged Peter Domachuk -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
Maybe Choice magazine could help answer that question, I have previously asked them questions re the rights of the purchaser and they have been quick on the answer. AndrewD Looking for a beer Look here www.whereisthepub.org quote who=Peter Domachuk My question to the forum is: What degree of sucess has anyone out there had with refunding the value of thier OEM copy of windows, be it from the manufacturer of Microsoft itself? Is Microsoft even approachable in this issue? I'm happy to hear any and all experiences, anything will help at this point. Morning Peter, long time no see, :-) Basically, what will happen is that Dell will direct you to Microsoft, and Microsoft will direct you to Dell. It is unclear whose responsibility the refunds are, and they use this to great effect. I have not heard of too many successful refund requests... If you think that SLUG can help out in any way, lend its name to your cause, whatever, please let us know. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:39:35AM +1100, Peter Domachuk wrote: I have recently purchased a Dell laptop which is happily running RH8.0, which is all good. I wish to get my money back on the OEM copy of XP Home that came with the system. There's the windows refund story from Adelaide from someone who bought a Toshiba laptop. Took him ages, but in the end he managed it. URL is: http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html There's also www.windowsrefund.net, but that's mainly US orientated. cheers, Chris -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 12:04:38PM +1100, Chris Samuel wrote: On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:39:35AM +1100, Peter Domachuk wrote: I have recently purchased a Dell laptop which is happily running RH8.0, which is all good. I wish to get my money back on the OEM copy of XP Home that came with the system. There's the windows refund story from Adelaide from someone who bought a Toshiba laptop. Took him ages, but in the end he managed it. URL is: http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html There's also www.windowsrefund.net, but that's mainly US orientated. yep, I was going to chime in with that URL. Do it, and do it all in writing. And let us know how you get on (I will more than likely be buying a new laptop in the next few months and will be attempting the same exercise). PS. bear in mind Australian consumer law is much better than the yank ones, M$/Dell will try to fob you off citing USA laws and/or licence agreement provisions that are over-ridden in Australia by the trade practices act and consumer protection legislation. Dave. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
Peter Domachuk wrote: I have recently purchased a Dell laptop which is happily running RH8.0, which is all good. I wish to get my money back on the OEM copy of XP Home that came with the system. Last time I opened a Dell box it had a little card that said that if I wanted to exercise the MS EULA refund provisions then I should return the machine unopened for a full refund on my hardware purchase. Did you have anything similar in the packaging? -- Glen Turner(08) 8303 3936 or +61 8 8303 3936 Australian Academic and Research Network www.aarnet.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
why take delivery of a box with the spam os on it? I bought my last two boxes without any software at all; and expect to continue purchasing that way bill -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Microsoft Tax
on Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:22:03PM +1100, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why take delivery of a box with the spam os on it? I bought my last two boxes without any software at all; and expect to continue purchasing that way Thats my thought too. If they wont sell you a box without and OS go else where. BB -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
