RE: Anybody still using mental ray?

[Sven Constable]

Infinite lights with texture control? That's flipping amazing. With the
words of Morris Day: Release it!!! 
sven  

-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Matt Lind
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 1:16 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Anybody still using mental ray?

Thanks for the endorsement, Pierre.

However, don't get too excited.  Majority of the shaders were written
between 2001-2004 with the idea of creating a utility node library to expose
features softimage was not exposing in their own shaders.  Basically, I
wanted to expose what shader writers commonly use in their code so they
wouldn't have to write code anymore to prototype shaders.  I also wanted to
homogenize workflow in the render tree to be more consistent with functions
you find outside the render tree.  For example, applying a texture to a
light and be able to control projection method, tiling, repeats, flip/swap
uv, etc..  just like you do with textures applied to geometry, and have it
work on any type of light (point, spot, infinite, ..)

Most of my more ambitious efforts are owned by my former employers.


Matt





Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 17:18:51 -0500
From: Pierre Schiller 
Subject: RE: Anybody still using mental ray?
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

@Sven's got some really deep honest points regarding mr.

@Matt Lind, any MR shaders you develop help a lot of people, who read this
but can't participate either because they're not part of the list or this
(will be) a cached google page. In representation of them: I vote YES, we do
use MentalRay.

To this day I'm still contacted by peop?e who says: MR toon shader is the
best out there. Softimage toon shader is the best. And that'd my personal
use of MR: toon shading, normals, world normals... you know stuff that
requires more of a compositor's cheme to arm a scene for cartoon renders.

I'm interested on advanced shaders because less parameters deal with the
same amount of settings regarding out of the box MR shaders. Plus we all
have seen your page over thr years, Matt, who are we kidding, really great
tutos and SI help from you all these years. :)

Release the kra...(wait)... release the MR shaders...

Cheers. 

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RE: Anybody still using mental ray?

[Matt Lind]

Thanks for the endorsement, Pierre.

However, don't get too excited.  Majority of the shaders were written 
between 2001-2004 with the idea of creating a utility node library to expose 
features softimage was not exposing in their own shaders.  Basically, I 
wanted to expose what shader writers commonly use in their code so they 
wouldn't have to write code anymore to prototype shaders.  I also wanted to 
homogenize workflow in the render tree to be more consistent with functions 
you find outside the render tree.  For example, applying a texture to a 
light and be able to control projection method, tiling, repeats, flip/swap 
uv, etc..  just like you do with textures applied to geometry, and have it 
work on any type of light (point, spot, infinite, ..)

Most of my more ambitious efforts are owned by my former employers.


Matt





Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 17:18:51 -0500
From: Pierre Schiller 
Subject: RE: Anybody still using mental ray?
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

@Sven's got some really deep honest points regarding mr.

@Matt Lind, any MR shaders you develop help a lot of people, who read this
but can't participate either because they're not part of the list or this
(will be) a cached google page. In representation of them: I vote YES, we
do use MentalRay.

To this day I'm still contacted by peop?e who says: MR toon shader is the
best out there. Softimage toon shader is the best. And that'd my personal
use of MR: toon shading, normals, world normals... you know stuff that
requires more of a compositor's cheme to arm a scene for cartoon renders.

I'm interested on advanced shaders because less parameters deal with the
same amount of settings regarding out of the box MR shaders. Plus we all
have seen your page over thr years, Matt, who are we kidding, really great
tutos and SI help from you all these years. :)

Release the kra...(wait)... release the MR shaders...

Cheers. 

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Re: blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I have no idea why..

[balazs kiss]

Local. Somehow I skipped this line in the docs : "If there is no
deformation animation before you save or store shape keys, the effect is
the same as local relative mode." Converted to object and it's working.

Thanks a lot for your time and help ( including everyone )!

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Eric Thivierge 
wrote:

> What space did you create your blend shape in? Local or Object? Check your
> blend shape prefs. If it's Local space you'll need to create a compound
> that handles the local space properly.
>
> Eric T.
>
> 
> Eric Thivierge
> http://www.ethivierge.com
>
> On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 1:20 PM, balazs kiss  wrote:
>
>> Hi, and thanks for the quick response, unfortunately non of these are
>> solving the problem. It has no keyed attribute, and closing the shape
>> manager has no effect on it. When I have both the manager and the ice tree
>> active I have double transformation of course, but even in that case the
>> vectors coming from ICE are off : /
>>
>> On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Andres Stephens 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Make sure the blend shape has no active animated attributes? Like close
>>> the shape manager? Reset shape values? Remove shape keyframe?
>>>
>>> Ice offsets the points on top of the shape animation.
>>>
>>> Maybe? Happened to me once.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Original message 
>>> From: balazs kiss 
>>> Date: 31/05/2016 11:55 (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I
>>> have no idea why..
>>>
>>> greetings!
>>>
>>> I was running into some trouble when I tried to build some basic stuff
>>> in ICE, and I'm running out of ideas, so please have a look at the images
>>> and share your wisdom with me :)
>>>
>>> https://goo.gl/photos/NiMY5rRn5S1XTbQT9
>>>
>>> The first image, a torus, with the shape modeled in xsi, and correctly
>>> displayed in the shape manager, and the second image is the same shape in
>>> ICE. First I've tried with a more complex object (shapes imported from
>>> mudbox), but when things looked funny I gave it a try from scratch, and I
>>> must have missed something very basic, but I have no idea what..
>>> Any suggestions/observations are very welcome!
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> balazs
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I have no idea why..

[Eric Thivierge]

What space did you create your blend shape in? Local or Object? Check your
blend shape prefs. If it's Local space you'll need to create a compound
that handles the local space properly.

Eric T.


Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 1:20 PM, balazs kiss  wrote:

> Hi, and thanks for the quick response, unfortunately non of these are
> solving the problem. It has no keyed attribute, and closing the shape
> manager has no effect on it. When I have both the manager and the ice tree
> active I have double transformation of course, but even in that case the
> vectors coming from ICE are off : /
>
> On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Andres Stephens 
> wrote:
>
>> Make sure the blend shape has no active animated attributes? Like close
>> the shape manager? Reset shape values? Remove shape keyframe?
>>
>> Ice offsets the points on top of the shape animation.
>>
>> Maybe? Happened to me once.
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: balazs kiss 
>> Date: 31/05/2016 11:55 (GMT-05:00)
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I
>> have no idea why..
>>
>> greetings!
>>
>> I was running into some trouble when I tried to build some basic stuff in
>> ICE, and I'm running out of ideas, so please have a look at the images and
>> share your wisdom with me :)
>>
>> https://goo.gl/photos/NiMY5rRn5S1XTbQT9
>>
>> The first image, a torus, with the shape modeled in xsi, and correctly
>> displayed in the shape manager, and the second image is the same shape in
>> ICE. First I've tried with a more complex object (shapes imported from
>> mudbox), but when things looked funny I gave it a try from scratch, and I
>> must have missed something very basic, but I have no idea what..
>> Any suggestions/observations are very welcome!
>>
>> cheers,
>> balazs
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
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Re: blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I have no idea why..

[balazs kiss]

Hi, and thanks for the quick response, unfortunately non of these are
solving the problem. It has no keyed attribute, and closing the shape
manager has no effect on it. When I have both the manager and the ice tree
active I have double transformation of course, but even in that case the
vectors coming from ICE are off : /

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Andres Stephens 
wrote:

> Make sure the blend shape has no active animated attributes? Like close
> the shape manager? Reset shape values? Remove shape keyframe?
>
> Ice offsets the points on top of the shape animation.
>
> Maybe? Happened to me once.
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: balazs kiss 
> Date: 31/05/2016 11:55 (GMT-05:00)
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I
> have no idea why..
>
> greetings!
>
> I was running into some trouble when I tried to build some basic stuff in
> ICE, and I'm running out of ideas, so please have a look at the images and
> share your wisdom with me :)
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/NiMY5rRn5S1XTbQT9
>
> The first image, a torus, with the shape modeled in xsi, and correctly
> displayed in the shape manager, and the second image is the same shape in
> ICE. First I've tried with a more complex object (shapes imported from
> mudbox), but when things looked funny I gave it a try from scratch, and I
> must have missed something very basic, but I have no idea what..
> Any suggestions/observations are very welcome!
>
> cheers,
> balazs
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I have no idea why..

[Andres Stephens]

Make sure the blend shape has no active animated attributes? Like close the 
shape manager? Reset shape values? Remove shape keyframe?
Ice offsets the points on top of the shape animation.
Maybe? Happened to me once.

 Original message 
From: balazs kiss 
Date: 31/05/2016  11:55  (GMT-05:00)
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I have   
no idea why..

greetings!

I was running into some trouble when I tried to build some basic stuff in
ICE, and I'm running out of ideas, so please have a look at the images and
share your wisdom with me :)

https://goo.gl/photos/NiMY5rRn5S1XTbQT9

The first image, a torus, with the shape modeled in xsi, and correctly
displayed in the shape manager, and the second image is the same shape in
ICE. First I've tried with a more complex object (shapes imported from
mudbox), but when things looked funny I gave it a try from scratch, and I
must have missed something very basic, but I have no idea what..
Any suggestions/observations are very welcome!

cheers,
balazs
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blendshape looks funny in ICE, but not in shape manager.. and I have no idea why..

[balazs kiss]

greetings!

I was running into some trouble when I tried to build some basic stuff in
ICE, and I'm running out of ideas, so please have a look at the images and
share your wisdom with me :)

https://goo.gl/photos/NiMY5rRn5S1XTbQT9

The first image, a torus, with the shape modeled in xsi, and correctly
displayed in the shape manager, and the second image is the same shape in
ICE. First I've tried with a more complex object (shapes imported from
mudbox), but when things looked funny I gave it a try from scratch, and I
must have missed something very basic, but I have no idea what..
Any suggestions/observations are very welcome!

cheers,
balazs
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Re: Anybody still using mental ray?

[Chris Marshall]

I haven't read much of the above, but I'm still happy using MR. Should I
have switched!?


On 29 May 2016 at 23:18, Pierre Schiller 
wrote:

> @Sven's got some really deep honest points regarding mr.
>
> @Matt Lind, any MR shaders you develop help a lot of people, who read this
> but can't participate either because they're not part of the list or this
> (will be) a cached google page. In representation of them: I vote YES, we
> do use MentalRay.
>
> To this day I'm still contacted by peopñe who says: MR toon shader is the
> best out there. Softimage toon shader is the best. And that'd my personal
> use of MR: toon shading, normals, world normals... you know stuff that
> requires more of a compositor's cheme to arm a scene for cartoon renders.
>
> I'm interested on advanced shaders because less parameters deal with the
> same amount of settings regarding out of the box MR shaders. Plus we all
> have seen your page over thr years, Matt, who are we kidding, really great
> tutos and SI help from you all these years. :)
>
> Release the kra...(wait)... release the MR shaders...
>
> Cheers.
> On May 29, 2016 10:08 AM, "Sven Constable" 
> wrote:
>
>> What you say about update cycles is absolutly valid. In fact mental
>> images did updates quite frequently. Not as often as chaos group with vray
>> but at least several per year. I had a better and newer link including
>> dates of bugfixes but I can't find right now. Heres an older list by AD:
>>
>> http://docs.autodesk.com/MENTALRAY/2012/ENU/mental%20ray%203.9%20Help/files/relnotes/relnotes.html
>>
>>
>>
>> A lot of fixes quite frequently as it seems. But since most of the
>> costumers  didn't use the standalone but the integrated version by its DCC
>> developer the bugfixes were incorporated only once per year. Leaving
>> costumers a year with a bug, that got adressed by mental images possibly
>> just a week later.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Derek Jenson
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 29, 2016 3:36 PM
>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> *Subject:* RE: Anybody still using mental ray?
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the biggest problem with the stability of MR was with the concept
>> of only releasing a single update once a year which was tided to the 3D
>> program. That was unrealistic idealism. There was also pressure to give
>> customers the lastest and least tested version of MR with each yearly DCC
>> update. 3D is too bleeding edge for that release model to be stable. Being
>> XSI's only renderer option for a long time, stability certainly became an
>> issue.
>>
>> If MR updates were released with the frequency (and flexibility of
>> rollbacks) like all 3rd party engines, everyone would have fonder memories
>> of the software.
>>
>> The developers of MR also worked in complete isolation with regard to
>> communication with their customer base. The RS guys have bent over backward
>> to educate and update their clients, and I really appreciate the support.
>> IMO, you can only partially point the finger at users for not using a
>> software as intended. With information/training being so easily accessible
>> now the "you're not smart enough to use software X" mentally of the early
>> years is void. If a whole user base is struggling with a technology... then
>> something with that tech is flawed; not the other way around.
>>
>> The flexibility of MR and 3delight are unmatched (in  XSI), but the speed
>> demands forced on this biz make Redshift indispensable for keeping pace.
>> --
>>
>> From: mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com
>> Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 22:00:28 +0200
>> Subject: Re: Anybody still using mental ray?
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>
>> there are some good points in there BUT if better results can be achieved
>> faster and learn faster on another engine does it make sense to waste time
>> learning inferior render engine instead?
>>
>>
>>
>> also I do know much more experience people with MRay that even with
>> knowing a lot more still had to spend wake nights waiting for crashes and
>> issues on critical rendering that ofc needs to be done tomorrow morning :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Matt Lind  wrote:
>>
>> The people who complain the most about mental ray tend to be the ones who
>> never took the time to learn to use it properly.
>>
>> If you read the manuals, mental images states some modes are more taxing
>> than others for rendering.  For example, Segmented shadow mode incurs 15%
>> additional rendering time vs. the default shadow computation mode, and is
>> less stable inside of material shaders.  Segmented shadows is currently
>> set
>> as the default shadow computation mode.  If you do most of your rendering
>> in
>> passes, then you likely do not need segmented shadows and can revert to
>> what
>> is now labeled "normal" 

Re: Friday Flashback #274

[Chris Marshall]

That's so totally right!!!

On 27 May 2016 at 22:36, Matt Lind  wrote:

> When Daniel Langlois ran the company, the customer facing element was very
> design and artist centric.  It spoke to the end user.  Daniel was selling
> inspiration, a vision.
>
> When Microsoft entered the picture, they threw money at it to make it more
> visible and accessible with the peak being around the time of the photo you
> reference.   When Daniel Langlois left the company and Microsoft later sold
> it to Avid, there was a noticeable shift in personality transitioning to
> more of an engineering focus with attention to user friendliness and
> corporate like global branding.  The company didn't speak through it's
> leader's vision anymore, but instead through the face of it's products
> which
> didn't have a central voice.  Sumatra was still being sold on inspiration,
> but Daniel wasn't around anymore to push the message.
>
> In some ways, Daniel Langlois' Softimage was just like Steve Jobs' Apple.
> When you bought from Apple, you were buying Steve Jobs' visions and being
> inspired by him, and that momentum carried you to the purchase.  Today
> Apple
> still exists and sells really well, but it speaks through it's products and
> it's products don't have that same inspirational connection they had when
> Steve Jobs was around to push them.
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 11:07:39 -0500
> From: Pierre Schiller 
> Subject: Re: Friday Flashback #274
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>
> How much is that Sotimage ICE shop bag again?
> Alienware logo-like in picture #52 ( I meant). Were we even that far ahead
> in the future, back then?
> OMM (Oh my Mind) Eisner?s original book (that?s like looking Illusion of
> Iife back in the 60?s original print)!
>
> My mind, come to think of this, this merchandise was so powerful to sell
> XSI (I came into it in 2k) that
> I can?t even imagine what could?ve come of XSI with this branding if it
> kept flowing into the stores and specialized 3d magazines...
>
> Oh wait..I know I can imagine, that?s why japan and Konami made a big name
> for Softimage!
> -Seeing this on America, AD (and
> low-rate-configure-it-yourself-crazy-crashing-in-sales-competitor-software)
> wasn?t getting the love
> it thought it deserved, and then...yeah, let?s close Softimage division
> these softimagers really know how to be
> catchy and stylized, that can get our
>
> never-updated-from-the-ground-up-lets-keep-patching-software-for-another14-years
> 3d-package) look bad..
>
> There, I let it out.
>
> Cheers.
>
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>



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Re: Friday Flashback #265

[Chris Marshall]

Cool Stuff


On 27 May 2016 at 16:57, Pierre Schiller 
wrote:

> Picture #15 looks like Alienware logo. Deng, were we even that far ahead
> in the fure back then?
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Matt Lind  wrote:
>
>> I updated my facebook page with some new photos of stuff I still have such
>> as the XSI 1.0 installation CDs.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/h7ccbkk
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 09:17:59 +
>> From: Brent McPherson 
>> Subject: RE: Friday Flashback #265
>> To: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com"
>>
>>
>> This thread reminded me of Mark Schoennagel's SIGGRAPH 2006 SI3D demo.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzj3VITdN5A
>>
>> As someone who worked on Maya, moved to Softimage and is now back on Maya
>> I
>> have one piece of advice:
>>
>> Treasure your nostalgia because, in my experience, reality doesn't always
>> live up to our memories of the past!  :-P
>> --
>> Brent
>>
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>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Portfolio 2013 
> Cinema & TV production
> Video Reel 
>
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RE: Arnold shaders, interactive oppacity on Alpha?

[Schoenberger]

And with an environment shader, you can even use a ray switch to choose 
different colors for refraction and transparency.
(you might need to turn on the sprite mode transparency in my shaders)
 
Holger Schönberger
technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night

 


  _  

From: Schoenberger [mailto:x...@digidragon.de] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 11:46 AM
To: 'softimage@listproc.autodesk.com'
Subject: RE: Arnold shaders, interactive oppacity on Alpha?


 
>No alpha on arnold. What?!
No option in the shader to choose color+alpha if the refraction depth hits the 
limit or if the ray leaves the scene.
In SI+ MRay, you can set an environment shader per object or pass to set the 
color+alpha, which is by default 0/0/0/0.
 
 
Holger Schönberger
technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night


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RE: Arnold shaders, interactive oppacity on Alpha?

[Schoenberger]

 
>No alpha on arnold. What?!
No option in the shader to choose color+alpha if the refraction depth hits the 
limit or if the ray leaves the scene.
In SI+ MRay, you can set an environment shader per object or pass to set the 
color+alpha, which is by default 0/0/0/0.
 
 
Holger Schönberger
technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night

 


  _  

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Schiller
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2016 6:30 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Arnold shaders, interactive oppacity on Alpha?



No alpha on arnold. What?!

On May 30, 2016 6:50 AM, "Schoenberger"  wrote:



You might want to use an Binary Alchemy shader. e.g. the BA_color_switcher.
I have never liked that Arnold has no option for the alpha.
 
 
Holger Schönberger
technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night


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Re: Arnold shaders, interactive oppacity on Alpha?

[Stephen Blair]

Refraction is the bending of light, not transparency. You won't see
refraction propagated through to the alpha channel.

On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Pierre Schiller <
activemotionpictu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> No alpha on arnold. What?!
> On May 30, 2016 6:50 AM, "Schoenberger"  wrote:
>
>> You might want to use an Binary Alchemy shader. e.g. the
>> BA_color_switcher.
>> I have never liked that Arnold has no option for the alpha.
>>
>>
>> Holger Schönberger
>> technical director
>> The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Pierre Schiller
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 27, 2016 5:56 PM
>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> *Subject:* Arnold shaders, interactive oppacity on Alpha?
>>
>> Hello Softimagers! :D
>>
>> I´ve been doing some quick test renders on arnold and I happen to come
>> around a dead end:
>> I know arnold property has to have "opaque" unchecked on the geometry in
>> order to work the transparency from the shader (on the Refraction Scale = 1
>> to be fully transparent, also I switched Diffuse Scale = 0).
>>
>> But when I preview alpha on the image, I still get an opaque geometry.
>>
>> The general idea, should be that by driving a % value, I can decrease the
>> opacity on the mesh gradually via the arnold standard shader.
>>
>> Is there an easier way to do this?
>> Please help.
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Portfolio 2013 
>> Cinema & TV production
>> Video Reel 
>>
>>
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>
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