RE: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Wow, very nice information. However, there were times, when I was told I am fairly expensive with my 100Euros (without VAT) rate per day...And I'm in Eastern Europe as well, and the statement was made by a company in the UK. Cheers Szabolcs -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of olivier jeannel Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 4:41 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling Thank's Tim :) Pretty precize :D Le 17/11/2012 16:06, Tim Leydecker a écrit : Given you´re mail account, you´re based in France. That´s EU territory. 19% VAT. I guess remote work, home office. Your own equipment, hardware and software. Your own hours plus the above overhead. You guess it would take you 4-5 days to complete the task. Adding 3 revision steps to that means another 3 days of handling your milestones, e.g. communication and revision loops with your client. That´s 7-8 days for finishing a 3 D character model. That´s very fast and seems to not include the concept/art-direction bit too much. Especially when working with a fresh client who may only be able to judge finished, e.g. fully built, textured, shaded and lit renderings. I would suggest a small boutique shop price per day, which is at least around 750 EUR/day. Because that´s what you do, besides modeling. Coming from a graphics design backround, list prices I can relate to range in the 60 EUR/hr range but would not include additional fees for usage of artworks. These fees for, let´s say a worldwide, unlimited use of your character may easily be factor 10. For a reason. Cheers, tim On 17.11.2012 15:24, olivier jeannel wrote: Ah thank's, that helps. Well, the clients seems rather new in the 3d field. (nothing like Lionsgate, or big studio) So I'm not sure how they'll react to the range of price. Thank's a lot for your examples :) Le 17/11/2012 14:58, Octavian Ureche a écrit : I remember doing a commercial for a studio here (eastern europe), and we outsourced a horse model to a friend of mine who now happens to work at lionhead. Point was, it took him 3 days, i recall, to do it, and it cost 1000 euros. And that was 4 or 5 years ago, and it wasn't considered that expensive, and we're talking eastern europe here. Don't know if the prices have changed that much since then in the modelling area, but i thought it might be food for thought. But the guy had an impressive portfolio even back then. On the other hand, i had a friend who recently hired a ubisoft guy with a rather poor portfolio to model a toycar, and he did it for 400 in 4 days. Don't know if it matters whether it's cartoony or realistic, but i think your portfolio will also help dictate the amount of money that you can or can't charge. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:02 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Ok Thank you ! So, 400$ * 4 or 5 days for 1 character is not over-priced according to you ? Le 16/11/2012 22:47, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I would then price it per day. 8 hour days. I charge approx. $400/day (314.2924 euros) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:51 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
This is interesting, and i think it mostly revolves around making certain things clear beforehand. Notice that whenever you do the math based on what an employee's rate would be, you always come up with ridiculously low sums of money from a freelance perspective. At first glance, 100 eur/day to me feels like borderline insulting for a freelance rate. But, if we do a little basic math, at that rate, an employee would get 2k / month, and that includes healthcare and vacation. Which for eastern european standards, is a very good salary. Now as a freelancer, jobs are usually scarce (except if u're on a roll, which i don't think happens that often). So you need to plan your lifestyle accordingly. Backup plans and savings are crucial. Also as a freelancer you have to add extra expenses to your rates, like electricity, renderfarm costs (if u'r pulling heavy stuff that you can't possibly render at home), subcontracting costs (we all need a hand from time to time), rent for the apt you're living in, food, heating or cooling expenses etc. That adds a considerable amount of money to that rate. Something which does not apply to an employee which basically gets all this for free at the working place (apart from food maybe). The studio on the other hand adds these to it's hourly rate, which includes employee expenses. So while in theory, 100 eur/day sounds like a good fulltime salary, for a freelancer, it would give a whole new meaning to life (survival training might be necessary here). Keep in mind, everything i wrote, is based on eastern european experience, but i presume it's the same everywhere else. Numbers vary, but the theory stays the same. Peace, O On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.comwrote: Wow, very nice information. However, there were times, when I was told I am fairly expensive with my 100Euros (without VAT) rate per day...And I'm in Eastern Europe as well, and the statement was made by a company in the UK. Cheers Szabolcs -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of olivier jeannel Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 4:41 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling Thank's Tim :) Pretty precize :D Le 17/11/2012 16:06, Tim Leydecker a écrit : Given you´re mail account, you´re based in France. That´s EU territory. 19% VAT. I guess remote work, home office. Your own equipment, hardware and software. Your own hours plus the above overhead. You guess it would take you 4-5 days to complete the task. Adding 3 revision steps to that means another 3 days of handling your milestones, e.g. communication and revision loops with your client. That´s 7-8 days for finishing a 3 D character model. That´s very fast and seems to not include the concept/art-direction bit too much. Especially when working with a fresh client who may only be able to judge finished, e.g. fully built, textured, shaded and lit renderings. I would suggest a small boutique shop price per day, which is at least around 750 EUR/day. Because that´s what you do, besides modeling. Coming from a graphics design backround, list prices I can relate to range in the 60 EUR/hr range but would not include additional fees for usage of artworks. These fees for, let´s say a worldwide, unlimited use of your character may easily be factor 10. For a reason. Cheers, tim On 17.11.2012 15:24, olivier jeannel wrote: Ah thank's, that helps. Well, the clients seems rather new in the 3d field. (nothing like Lionsgate, or big studio) So I'm not sure how they'll react to the range of price. Thank's a lot for your examples :) Le 17/11/2012 14:58, Octavian Ureche a écrit : I remember doing a commercial for a studio here (eastern europe), and we outsourced a horse model to a friend of mine who now happens to work at lionhead. Point was, it took him 3 days, i recall, to do it, and it cost 1000 euros. And that was 4 or 5 years ago, and it wasn't considered that expensive, and we're talking eastern europe here. Don't know if the prices have changed that much since then in the modelling area, but i thought it might be food for thought. But the guy had an impressive portfolio even back then. On the other hand, i had a friend who recently hired a ubisoft guy with a rather poor portfolio to model a toycar, and he did it for 400 in 4 days. Don't know if it matters whether it's cartoony or realistic, but i think your portfolio will also help dictate the amount of money that you can or can't charge. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:02 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Ok Thank you ! So, 400$ * 4 or 5 days for 1 character is not over-priced according to you ? Le 16/11/2012 22
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
I think it's overall true every where. On a side note, I'd add that in France when a company hire someone at 100 e/day (salary) it cost 200e/day to the company due to taxes. And on the 100e, the worker has to release back some money for his own taxes, of course. On the over side, the freelance /seems/ to cost more but you can join him on weekend and on holydays ;) Le 19/11/2012 10:25, Octavian Ureche a écrit : This is interesting, and i think it mostly revolves around making certain things clear beforehand. Notice that whenever you do the math based on what an employee's rate would be, you always come up with ridiculously low sums of money from a freelance perspective. At first glance, 100 eur/day to me feels like borderline insulting for a freelance rate. But, if we do a little basic math, at that rate, an employee would get 2k / month, and that includes healthcare and vacation. Which for eastern european standards, is a very good salary. Now as a freelancer, jobs are usually scarce (except if u're on a roll, which i don't think happens that often). So you need to plan your lifestyle accordingly. Backup plans and savings are crucial. Also as a freelancer you have to add extra expenses to your rates, like electricity, renderfarm costs (if u'r pulling heavy stuff that you can't possibly render at home), subcontracting costs (we all need a hand from time to time), rent for the apt you're living in, food, heating or cooling expenses etc. That adds a considerable amount of money to that rate. Something which does not apply to an employee which basically gets all this for free at the working place (apart from food maybe). The studio on the other hand adds these to it's hourly rate, which includes employee expenses. So while in theory, 100 eur/day sounds like a good fulltime salary, for a freelancer, it would give a whole new meaning to life (survival training might be necessary here). Keep in mind, everything i wrote, is based on eastern european experience, but i presume it's the same everywhere else. Numbers vary, but the theory stays the same. Peace, O On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.com mailto:szabol...@crytek.com wrote: Wow, very nice information. However, there were times, when I was told I am fairly expensive with my 100Euros (without VAT) rate per day...And I'm in Eastern Europe as well, and the statement was made by a company in the UK. Cheers Szabolcs -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of olivier jeannel Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 4:41 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling Thank's Tim :) Pretty precize :D Le 17/11/2012 16:06, Tim Leydecker a écrit : Given you´re mail account, you´re based in France. That´s EU territory. 19% VAT. I guess remote work, home office. Your own equipment, hardware and software. Your own hours plus the above overhead. You guess it would take you 4-5 days to complete the task. Adding 3 revision steps to that means another 3 days of handling your milestones, e.g. communication and revision loops with your client. That´s 7-8 days for finishing a 3 D character model. That´s very fast and seems to not include the concept/art-direction bit too much. Especially when working with a fresh client who may only be able to judge finished, e.g. fully built, textured, shaded and lit renderings. I would suggest a small boutique shop price per day, which is at least around 750 EUR/day. Because that´s what you do, besides modeling. Coming from a graphics design backround, list prices I can relate to range in the 60 EUR/hr range but would not include additional fees for usage of artworks. These fees for, let´s say a worldwide, unlimited use of your character may easily be factor 10. For a reason. Cheers, tim On 17.11.2012 15:24, olivier jeannel wrote: Ah thank's, that helps. Well, the clients seems rather new in the 3d field. (nothing like Lionsgate, or big studio) So I'm not sure how they'll react to the range of price. Thank's a lot for your examples :) Le 17/11/2012 14:58, Octavian Ureche a écrit : I remember doing a commercial for a studio here (eastern europe), and we outsourced a horse model to a friend of mine who now happens to work at lionhead. Point was, it took him 3 days, i recall, to do it, and it cost 1000 euros
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Over here in the US I see a lot of people working for in-house freelance rates from home on their own equipment. This seems unwise to me since hardware/software and other costs are not really taken into account. To me, there is a difference between going into a company and working with their clients on their equipment versus working at home on your own setup. I think these trends are creating a false sense of value to clients. In the long run freelancers cannot maintain this economy and the clientele will be accustomed to artificially low rates. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.comwrote: Yep. I consider the 100 EURO / day as a it’s-just-1 cent-above-to-say-no rate…but I was told it’s way above the average, so it was funny. Especially knowing that how much the client charges for the models I made :D ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Octavian Ureche *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 1:34 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling ** ** Yap, forgot about tax expenses (they changed the legislation here a couple of years ago, and now they roam around 5% for small companies, so one tends to neglect that). Other places have it much higher, from what it seems. ** ** Also forgot to add a very important expense (bad eastern european habit...) that has a very strong influence on rate: software maintance/upgrade costs, and also leasing costs for specialised tools. ** ** As a sidenote, i found out through the years, that sometimes it is better to incorporate than to work as a legal freelacer, as taxes are usually lower this way (5% vs 20% here - insane, right?). But this one may really only apply to this part of the world. Also as a freelancer suing someone is a lot harder (or at least threatening to sue - that one usually does the trick). Plus, getting an accountant and starting to tackle the financial side of a business is a must, as it opens up a world of hurt, knowledge and possibilities which every artist should go through to survive in this industry. ** ** Cheers, Octav ** ** On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:10 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I think it's overall true every where. On a side note, I'd add that in France when a company hire someone at 100 e/day (salary) it cost 200e/day to the company due to taxes. And on the 100e, the worker has to release back some money for his own taxes, of course. On the over side, the freelance *seems* to cost more but you can join him on weekend and on holydays ;) Le 19/11/2012 10:25, Octavian Ureche a écrit : This is interesting, and i think it mostly revolves around making certain things clear beforehand. Notice that whenever you do the math based on what an employee's rate would be, you always come up with ridiculously low sums of money from a freelance perspective. At first glance, 100 eur/day to me feels like borderline insulting for a freelance rate. But, if we do a little basic math, at that rate, an employee would get 2k / month, and that includes healthcare and vacation. Which for eastern european standards, is a very good salary. Now as a freelancer, jobs are usually scarce (except if u're on a roll, which i don't think happens that often). So you need to plan your lifestyle accordingly. Backup plans and savings are crucial. Also as a freelancer you have to add extra expenses to your rates, like electricity, renderfarm costs (if u'r pulling heavy stuff that you can't possibly render at home), subcontracting costs (we all need a hand from time to time), rent for the apt you're living in, food, heating or cooling expenses etc. That adds a considerable amount of money to that rate. Something which does not apply to an employee which basically gets all this for free at the working place (apart from food maybe). The studio on the other hand adds these to it's hourly rate, which includes employee expenses. So while in theory, 100 eur/day sounds like a good fulltime salary, for a freelancer, it would give a whole new meaning to life (survival training might be necessary here). ** ** Keep in mind, everything i wrote, is based on eastern european experience, but i presume it's the same everywhere else. Numbers vary, but the theory stays the same. ** ** Peace, O ** ** On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.com wrote: Wow, very nice information. However, there were times, when I was told I am fairly expensive with my 100Euros (without VAT) rate per day...And I'm in Eastern Europe as well, and the statement was made by a company in the UK. Cheers Szabolcs -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Bidding at a per day rate, or per hour rate, is meaningless to most of your clients. That is why I bid a job with specific amount for a specific job. I use my per/hour rate as a guide to help me come up with a figure for the specific project. A project that might take me 20 hours to complete could take a novice more than twice that amount of time. I have over 25 years experience so I have learned a lot of shortcuts along the way. I also notice that my modeling skills have improved, over the years, that makes my 3D workflow much more efficient. The cost of hardware and software have been reduced, drastically over the last 25 years, so that is a consideration in my bids. I also have a home office, instead of an office located within a video production facility, which also reduces my operating costs over 10 years ago, when being in a video production facility had a big advantage. With on-line collaboration, and delivery, doing 3D animation business, out of a home office, has never been easier and cheaper. It actually costs me less to operate that 10 years ago. The biggest expensemarketing my services. Next step... move my studio onto a boat. ;) On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Byron Nash byronn...@gmail.com wrote: Over here in the US I see a lot of people working for in-house freelance rates from home on their own equipment. This seems unwise to me since hardware/software and other costs are not really taken into account. To me, there is a difference between going into a company and working with their clients on their equipment versus working at home on your own setup. I think these trends are creating a false sense of value to clients. In the long run freelancers cannot maintain this economy and the clientele will be accustomed to artificially low rates. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.comwrote: Yep. I consider the 100 EURO / day as a it’s-just-1 cent-above-to-say-no rate…but I was told it’s way above the average, so it was funny. Especially knowing that how much the client charges for the models I made :D ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Octavian Ureche *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 1:34 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling ** ** Yap, forgot about tax expenses (they changed the legislation here a couple of years ago, and now they roam around 5% for small companies, so one tends to neglect that). Other places have it much higher, from what it seems. ** ** Also forgot to add a very important expense (bad eastern european habit...) that has a very strong influence on rate: software maintance/upgrade costs, and also leasing costs for specialised tools.*** * ** ** As a sidenote, i found out through the years, that sometimes it is better to incorporate than to work as a legal freelacer, as taxes are usually lower this way (5% vs 20% here - insane, right?). But this one may really only apply to this part of the world. Also as a freelancer suing someone is a lot harder (or at least threatening to sue - that one usually does the trick). Plus, getting an accountant and starting to tackle the financial side of a business is a must, as it opens up a world of hurt, knowledge and possibilities which every artist should go through to survive in this industry. ** ** Cheers, Octav ** ** On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:10 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I think it's overall true every where. On a side note, I'd add that in France when a company hire someone at 100 e/day (salary) it cost 200e/day to the company due to taxes. And on the 100e, the worker has to release back some money for his own taxes, of course. On the over side, the freelance *seems* to cost more but you can join him on weekend and on holydays ;) Le 19/11/2012 10:25, Octavian Ureche a écrit : This is interesting, and i think it mostly revolves around making certain things clear beforehand. Notice that whenever you do the math based on what an employee's rate would be, you always come up with ridiculously low sums of money from a freelance perspective. At first glance, 100 eur/day to me feels like borderline insulting for a freelance rate. But, if we do a little basic math, at that rate, an employee would get 2k / month, and that includes healthcare and vacation. Which for eastern european standards, is a very good salary. Now as a freelancer, jobs are usually scarce (except if u're on a roll, which i don't think happens that often). So you need to plan your lifestyle accordingly. Backup plans and savings are crucial. Also as a freelancer you have to add extra expenses to your rates, like electricity, renderfarm costs (if u'r pulling heavy stuff that you can't possibly render at home
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Very good points guys. I can totally relate to the conveying value principle. I met a couple of very successful freelancers in my time, that charged what to me seemed like insane rates, even for an average looking after effects job, just because they knew how to sell themselves and talk business lingo to clients. And they are still doing that, and still getting tons of gigs. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Daniel H vfxc...@gmail.com wrote: In general, most artists are terrible practitioners of business and pricing. Obviously every model can vary greatly in detail and complexity. Stephen Davidson has it correct by evaluating time per component and then charging by an hourly rate to establish a starting base point. You must also master how to convey value to your client. You can't just spit-out an overall price or a day rate, because this leaves questions unanswered. The client will ask themselves, why this rate, is this high or low in comparison to other artists, what all am I getting for this price, what is this figure based on, how do I know if this is a fair price, can they deliver what I want and on time, do they understand what I expect, what is it going to cost if I want to make changes, etc. Here are some main points you need to cover and convey in the written proposal to your client. 1. I will demonstrate in writing that I understand my client's goals and the results they are after. 2. I will demonstrate in writing that I understand the deadline my client excepts out of me and its importance. 3. I will demonstrate in writing that I understand the quality my client is after. 4. I will demonstrate in writing that my client may make modifications and how those changes will be handled. 5. I will help my client understand the complexity and time this is going to take. 6. I will help my client understand the quality I can provide and/or with portfolio samples. 7. I will help my client understand this project is worth the price because of the above reasons. Because I have learned how to convey a detailed understanding of a project, and how to convey value before presenting high prices to my potential client, is why I beat other proposals 99 percent of the time. You need to price the project based on time, the quality you can provide, and based on its value to your client. Always put yourself in the client's place and ask the questions they would ask, then turn around and answer those questions in your proposal and you will be a bazillion miles ahead of what most artists normally do. Daniel VFXM On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Byron Nash byronn...@gmail.com wrote: Over here in the US I see a lot of people working for in-house freelance rates from home on their own equipment. This seems unwise to me since hardware/software and other costs are not really taken into account. To me, there is a difference between going into a company and working with their clients on their equipment versus working at home on your own setup. I think these trends are creating a false sense of value to clients. In the long run freelancers cannot maintain this economy and the clientele will be accustomed to artificially low rates. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.comwrote: Yep. I consider the 100 EURO / day as a it’s-just-1 cent-above-to-say-no rate…but I was told it’s way above the average, so it was funny. Especially knowing that how much the client charges for the models I made :D ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Octavian Ureche *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 1:34 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling ** ** Yap, forgot about tax expenses (they changed the legislation here a couple of years ago, and now they roam around 5% for small companies, so one tends to neglect that). Other places have it much higher, from what it seems. ** ** Also forgot to add a very important expense (bad eastern european habit...) that has a very strong influence on rate: software maintance/upgrade costs, and also leasing costs for specialised tools.** ** ** ** As a sidenote, i found out through the years, that sometimes it is better to incorporate than to work as a legal freelacer, as taxes are usually lower this way (5% vs 20% here - insane, right?). But this one may really only apply to this part of the world. Also as a freelancer suing someone is a lot harder (or at least threatening to sue - that one usually does the trick). Plus, getting an accountant and starting to tackle the financial side of a business is a must, as it opens up a world of hurt, knowledge and possibilities which every artist should go through to survive in this industry. ** ** Cheers, Octav ** ** On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:10 PM, olivier jeannel
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Daniel. You also provide excellent information about the content of your quotes. All excellent points, listed, in your post. I did forget to mention something that a lot of artists omit in their quotes, although you touch on it as cost of making changes. You also have to have some sort of statement that gives you the right to charge extra monies when content changes. This is where your per hour rate is used to figure the added charge for content change. Here is my disclaimer, stated at the end of each of my quotes: This estimate is provided based upon the information available to me, at the time the estimate was created. Any changes to the script, requirements, length of animation or added/subtracted elements to the animation will add to, or subtract from, the total estimate dollar amount. This Estimate is valid for 60 days from the creation date. Every effort has been made, in this estimate, to be as accurate as possible. Unforeseen costs can apply wherever applicable. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Daniel H vfxc...@gmail.com wrote: In general, most artists are terrible practitioners of business and pricing. Obviously every model can vary greatly in detail and complexity. Stephen Davidson has it correct by evaluating time per component and then charging by an hourly rate to establish a starting base point. You must also master how to convey value to your client. You can't just spit-out an overall price or a day rate, because this leaves questions unanswered. The client will ask themselves, why this rate, is this high or low in comparison to other artists, what all am I getting for this price, what is this figure based on, how do I know if this is a fair price, can they deliver what I want and on time, do they understand what I expect, what is it going to cost if I want to make changes, etc. Here are some main points you need to cover and convey in the written proposal to your client. 1. I will demonstrate in writing that I understand my client's goals and the results they are after. 2. I will demonstrate in writing that I understand the deadline my client excepts out of me and its importance. 3. I will demonstrate in writing that I understand the quality my client is after. 4. I will demonstrate in writing that my client may make modifications and how those changes will be handled. 5. I will help my client understand the complexity and time this is going to take. 6. I will help my client understand the quality I can provide and/or with portfolio samples. 7. I will help my client understand this project is worth the price because of the above reasons. Because I have learned how to convey a detailed understanding of a project, and how to convey value before presenting high prices to my potential client, is why I beat other proposals 99 percent of the time. You need to price the project based on time, the quality you can provide, and based on its value to your client. Always put yourself in the client's place and ask the questions they would ask, then turn around and answer those questions in your proposal and you will be a bazillion miles ahead of what most artists normally do. Daniel VFXM On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Byron Nash byronn...@gmail.com wrote: Over here in the US I see a lot of people working for in-house freelance rates from home on their own equipment. This seems unwise to me since hardware/software and other costs are not really taken into account. To me, there is a difference between going into a company and working with their clients on their equipment versus working at home on your own setup. I think these trends are creating a false sense of value to clients. In the long run freelancers cannot maintain this economy and the clientele will be accustomed to artificially low rates. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.comwrote: Yep. I consider the 100 EURO / day as a it’s-just-1 cent-above-to-say-no rate…but I was told it’s way above the average, so it was funny. Especially knowing that how much the client charges for the models I made :D ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Octavian Ureche *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 1:34 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling ** ** Yap, forgot about tax expenses (they changed the legislation here a couple of years ago, and now they roam around 5% for small companies, so one tends to neglect that). Other places have it much higher, from what it seems. ** ** Also forgot to add a very important expense (bad eastern european habit...) that has a very strong influence on rate: software maintance/upgrade costs, and also leasing costs for specialised tools.** ** ** ** As a sidenote, i found out through the years, that sometimes
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Octavian Ureche *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 1:34 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling ** ** Yap, forgot about tax expenses (they changed the legislation here a couple of years ago, and now they roam around 5% for small companies, so one tends to neglect that). Other places have it much higher, from what it seems. ** ** Also forgot to add a very important expense (bad eastern european habit...) that has a very strong influence on rate: software maintance/upgrade costs, and also leasing costs for specialised tools.** ** ** ** As a sidenote, i found out through the years, that sometimes it is better to incorporate than to work as a legal freelacer, as taxes are usually lower this way (5% vs 20% here - insane, right?). But this one may really only apply to this part of the world. Also as a freelancer suing someone is a lot harder (or at least threatening to sue - that one usually does the trick). Plus, getting an accountant and starting to tackle the financial side of a business is a must, as it opens up a world of hurt, knowledge and possibilities which every artist should go through to survive in this industry. ** ** Cheers, Octav ** ** On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:10 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I think it's overall true every where. On a side note, I'd add that in France when a company hire someone at 100 e/day (salary) it cost 200e/day to the company due to taxes. And on the 100e, the worker has to release back some money for his own taxes, of course. On the over side, the freelance *seems* to cost more but you can join him on weekend and on holydays ;) Le 19/11/2012 10:25, Octavian Ureche a écrit : This is interesting, and i think it mostly revolves around making certain things clear beforehand. Notice that whenever you do the math based on what an employee's rate would be, you always come up with ridiculously low sums of money from a freelance perspective. At first glance, 100 eur/day to me feels like borderline insulting for a freelance rate. But, if we do a little basic math, at that rate, an employee would get 2k / month, and that includes healthcare and vacation. Which for eastern european standards, is a very good salary. Now as a freelancer, jobs are usually scarce (except if u're on a roll, which i don't think happens that often). So you need to plan your lifestyle accordingly. Backup plans and savings are crucial. Also as a freelancer you have to add extra expenses to your rates, like electricity, renderfarm costs (if u'r pulling heavy stuff that you can't possibly render at home), subcontracting costs (we all need a hand from time to time), rent for the apt you're living in, food, heating or cooling expenses etc. That adds a considerable amount of money to that rate. Something which does not apply to an employee which basically gets all this for free at the working place (apart from food maybe). The studio on the other hand adds these to it's hourly rate, which includes employee expenses. So while in theory, 100 eur/day sounds like a good fulltime salary, for a freelancer, it would give a whole new meaning to life (survival training might be necessary here). ** ** Keep in mind, everything i wrote, is based on eastern european experience, but i presume it's the same everywhere else. Numbers vary, but the theory stays the same. ** ** Peace, O ** ** On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.com wrote: Wow, very nice information. However, there were times, when I was told I am fairly expensive with my 100Euros (without VAT) rate per day...And I'm in Eastern Europe as well, and the statement was made by a company in the UK. Cheers Szabolcs -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of olivier jeannel Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 4:41 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling Thank's Tim :) Pretty precize :D Le 17/11/2012 16:06, Tim Leydecker a écrit : Given you´re mail account, you´re based in France. That´s EU territory. 19% VAT. I guess remote work, home office. Your own equipment, hardware and software. Your own hours plus the above overhead. You guess it would take you 4-5 days to complete the task. Adding 3 revision steps to that means another 3 days of handling your milestones, e.g. communication and revision loops with your client. That´s 7-8 days for finishing a 3 D character model. That´s very fast and seems to not include the concept/art-direction bit too much. Especially when working with a fresh client who may only be able to judge finished, e.g. fully
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Ok Thank you ! So, 400$ * 4 or 5 days for 1 character is not over-priced according to you ? Le 16/11/2012 22:47, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I would then price it per day. 8 hour days. I charge approx. $400/day (314.2924 euros) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:51 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 tel:%28954%29%20552-7956 * sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com mailto:sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
I remember doing a commercial for a studio here (eastern europe), and we outsourced a horse model to a friend of mine who now happens to work at lionhead. Point was, it took him 3 days, i recall, to do it, and it cost 1000 euros. And that was 4 or 5 years ago, and it wasn't considered that expensive, and we're talking eastern europe here. Don't know if the prices have changed that much since then in the modelling area, but i thought it might be food for thought. But the guy had an impressive portfolio even back then. On the other hand, i had a friend who recently hired a ubisoft guy with a rather poor portfolio to model a toycar, and he did it for 400 in 4 days. Don't know if it matters whether it's cartoony or realistic, but i think your portfolio will also help dictate the amount of money that you can or can't charge. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:02 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.frwrote: Ok Thank you ! So, 400$ * 4 or 5 days for 1 character is not over-priced according to you ? Le 16/11/2012 22:47, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I would then price it per day. 8 hour days. I charge approx. $400/day (314.2924 euros) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:51 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.frwrote: I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 %28954%29%20552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- visual | stuff www.okto.ro
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
PS. the horse was fairly realistic and had a lot of zbrush love put into it. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Octavian Ureche okt...@gmail.com wrote: I remember doing a commercial for a studio here (eastern europe), and we outsourced a horse model to a friend of mine who now happens to work at lionhead. Point was, it took him 3 days, i recall, to do it, and it cost 1000 euros. And that was 4 or 5 years ago, and it wasn't considered that expensive, and we're talking eastern europe here. Don't know if the prices have changed that much since then in the modelling area, but i thought it might be food for thought. But the guy had an impressive portfolio even back then. On the other hand, i had a friend who recently hired a ubisoft guy with a rather poor portfolio to model a toycar, and he did it for 400 in 4 days. Don't know if it matters whether it's cartoony or realistic, but i think your portfolio will also help dictate the amount of money that you can or can't charge. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:02 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.frwrote: Ok Thank you ! So, 400$ * 4 or 5 days for 1 character is not over-priced according to you ? Le 16/11/2012 22:47, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I would then price it per day. 8 hour days. I charge approx. $400/day (314.2924 euros) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:51 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 %28954%29%20552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- visual | stuff www.okto.ro -- visual | stuff www.okto.ro
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Ah thank's, that helps. Well, the clients seems rather new in the 3d field. (nothing like Lionsgate, or big studio) So I'm not sure how they'll react to the range of price. Thank's a lot for your examples :) Le 17/11/2012 14:58, Octavian Ureche a écrit : I remember doing a commercial for a studio here (eastern europe), and we outsourced a horse model to a friend of mine who now happens to work at lionhead. Point was, it took him 3 days, i recall, to do it, and it cost 1000 euros. And that was 4 or 5 years ago, and it wasn't considered that expensive, and we're talking eastern europe here. Don't know if the prices have changed that much since then in the modelling area, but i thought it might be food for thought. But the guy had an impressive portfolio even back then. On the other hand, i had a friend who recently hired a ubisoft guy with a rather poor portfolio to model a toycar, and he did it for 400 in 4 days. Don't know if it matters whether it's cartoony or realistic, but i think your portfolio will also help dictate the amount of money that you can or can't charge. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:02 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Ok Thank you ! So, 400$ * 4 or 5 days for 1 character is not over-priced according to you ? Le 16/11/2012 22:47, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I would then price it per day. 8 hour days. I charge approx. $400/day (314.2924 euros) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:51 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 tel:%28954%29%20552-7956 * sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com mailto:sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 * sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com mailto:sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- visual | stuff www.okto.ro http://www.okto.ro
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Given you´re mail account, you´re based in France. That´s EU territory. 19% VAT. I guess remote work, home office. Your own equipment, hardware and software. Your own hours plus the above overhead. You guess it would take you 4-5 days to complete the task. Adding 3 revision steps to that means another 3 days of handling your milestones, e.g. communication and revision loops with your client. That´s 7-8 days for finishing a 3 D character model. That´s very fast and seems to not include the concept/art-direction bit too much. Especially when working with a fresh client who may only be able to judge finished, e.g. fully built, textured, shaded and lit renderings. I would suggest a small boutique shop price per day, which is at least around 750 EUR/day. Because that´s what you do, besides modeling. Coming from a graphics design backround, list prices I can relate to range in the 60 EUR/hr range but would not include additional fees for usage of artworks. These fees for, let´s say a worldwide, unlimited use of your character may easily be factor 10. For a reason. Cheers, tim On 17.11.2012 15:24, olivier jeannel wrote: Ah thank's, that helps. Well, the clients seems rather new in the 3d field. (nothing like Lionsgate, or big studio) So I'm not sure how they'll react to the range of price. Thank's a lot for your examples :) Le 17/11/2012 14:58, Octavian Ureche a écrit : I remember doing a commercial for a studio here (eastern europe), and we outsourced a horse model to a friend of mine who now happens to work at lionhead. Point was, it took him 3 days, i recall, to do it, and it cost 1000 euros. And that was 4 or 5 years ago, and it wasn't considered that expensive, and we're talking eastern europe here. Don't know if the prices have changed that much since then in the modelling area, but i thought it might be food for thought. But the guy had an impressive portfolio even back then. On the other hand, i had a friend who recently hired a ubisoft guy with a rather poor portfolio to model a toycar, and he did it for 400 in 4 days. Don't know if it matters whether it's cartoony or realistic, but i think your portfolio will also help dictate the amount of money that you can or can't charge. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:02 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Ok Thank you ! So, 400$ * 4 or 5 days for 1 character is not over-priced according to you ? Le 16/11/2012 22:47, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I would then price it per day. 8 hour days. I charge approx. $400/day (314.2924 euros) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:51 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 tel:%28954%29%20552-7956 * sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com mailto:sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 * sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com mailto:sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- visual | stuff
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
Thank's Tim :) Pretty precize :D Le 17/11/2012 16:06, Tim Leydecker a écrit : Given you´re mail account, you´re based in France. That´s EU territory. 19% VAT. I guess remote work, home office. Your own equipment, hardware and software. Your own hours plus the above overhead. You guess it would take you 4-5 days to complete the task. Adding 3 revision steps to that means another 3 days of handling your milestones, e.g. communication and revision loops with your client. That´s 7-8 days for finishing a 3 D character model. That´s very fast and seems to not include the concept/art-direction bit too much. Especially when working with a fresh client who may only be able to judge finished, e.g. fully built, textured, shaded and lit renderings. I would suggest a small boutique shop price per day, which is at least around 750 EUR/day. Because that´s what you do, besides modeling. Coming from a graphics design backround, list prices I can relate to range in the 60 EUR/hr range but would not include additional fees for usage of artworks. These fees for, let´s say a worldwide, unlimited use of your character may easily be factor 10. For a reason. Cheers, tim On 17.11.2012 15:24, olivier jeannel wrote: Ah thank's, that helps. Well, the clients seems rather new in the 3d field. (nothing like Lionsgate, or big studio) So I'm not sure how they'll react to the range of price. Thank's a lot for your examples :) Le 17/11/2012 14:58, Octavian Ureche a écrit : I remember doing a commercial for a studio here (eastern europe), and we outsourced a horse model to a friend of mine who now happens to work at lionhead. Point was, it took him 3 days, i recall, to do it, and it cost 1000 euros. And that was 4 or 5 years ago, and it wasn't considered that expensive, and we're talking eastern europe here. Don't know if the prices have changed that much since then in the modelling area, but i thought it might be food for thought. But the guy had an impressive portfolio even back then. On the other hand, i had a friend who recently hired a ubisoft guy with a rather poor portfolio to model a toycar, and he did it for 400 in 4 days. Don't know if it matters whether it's cartoony or realistic, but i think your portfolio will also help dictate the amount of money that you can or can't charge. On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:02 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Ok Thank you ! So, 400$ * 4 or 5 days for 1 character is not over-priced according to you ? Le 16/11/2012 22:47, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I would then price it per day. 8 hour days. I charge approx. $400/day (314.2924 euros) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:51 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 tel:%28954%29%20552-7956 * sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com mailto:sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 *
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.frwrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com
Re: Semi OT : Charging the modelling
I would then price it per day. 8 hour days. I charge approx. $400/day (314.2924 euros) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:51 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.frwrote: I won't be able to be that precise, as I usualy don't count in hours. Thus I think for modelling a 1 character 4 or 5 days is a maximum. But, really I'd like someone to give me a price example. are you usually speaking in hundreds or thousands of euros ? I don't really know... Le 16/11/2012 16:36, Stephen Davidson a écrit : I always estimate per hour. I have found that I can be quite accurate with an hourly estimate by breaking down the modeling to it's most basic components. For example, on a character model, how long to model each eye. How long to model basic body shape. How long to model hands, face, expressions (if needed), clothes... you get the idea. Then, add up all the tasks, and you will have a fairly accurate estimate. It takes practice, as my early quotes were not so accurate. I have been working in 3D since before Softimage version 1 so I have gotten more accurate over the years. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:59 AM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Hi guys, Now that I'm starting enjoying playing with Ice and particle stuff, clients are asking for ...modelling job ^^ I realize I never charged separatly for this task alone. So my question is how much do you (freelance, homeworkers) charge for 1 character modeling ? (How much do you keep in your pocket in the end (forget the taxes)) Typicaly, quadrupede / Biped, realistic proportions anatomy but rather for toon / NPA / stylized rendering results. In short, only polygonal modeling, (no Zbrush, no hair) How much do you cost :) -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com -- Best Regards, * Stephen P. Davidson** **(954) 552-7956 *sdavid...@3danimationmagic.com http://www.3danimationmagic.com
