Re: flood simulation
Hi, so it's pretty simple after all to have interesting interaction between RBDs and Lagoa simulations: https://vimeo.com/51754990. But, if you have a bunch of objects in your scene that need to interact with the fluid, you'll need to instance them to a pointcloud - not such a big deal most of the time. There is a small bug with this setup, if you remove members from the ICE topology group, it may crash. Safer just to make a new group. So as far as I see it the problem is not really interaction with the fluids, that's easy. The problem is more like scalability. If you want a huge, end of the world type of flood then Lagoa won't scale too well at all. Realflow is probably the best commercial solution for massive simulations right now. But, if you're just flooding the bathroom, then Lagoa may well do the job! Ciaran p.s. I miss you Naiad. On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Pablo Tufaro pablo@gmail.com wrote: Thank you very much for taking the time to write all this. I think I have to find a solution outside softimage. Thank you very much really. I will keep you posted with the advances if I reach one! P. El 10/18/2012 6:34 PM, Mathieu Leclaire escribió: This is not an easy task to accomplish in Softimage, but it is doable. I see two possible avenue I would explore: 1 - What I would try with Lagoa is emitting elastic particles for your rigid objects and make the elasticity very stiff. Make sure they have an ID based on the emitted mesh and a transformation relative to that emitter. Then, at every iteration, I'd figure out a way to average these particles transforms by ID to create a transform for the rigid particle group that I would apply to the rigid object. So the particle group (by ID) moves the mesh. Once you get that average tranform, I would overwrite these elastic particle positions by multiplying their saved relative transform by that new average transform and basically bring them back into a rest state. That'll avoid the rigid mass of particle to deform by their elastic properties and will allow proper collision for the liquid particles. You are forcing particle positions so it might insert some instabilities in the simulation, but I think it should work. So to recap, you let the elastic group deform and interact with the liquid group in one iteration. Then you undeform the elastic group by their averages to bring them back to a stable state as if it where actually rigid. You then simply match the transform of your rigid objects to that of it's relative group average transform and you keep iterating. That's one way. 2 - A second way would be by mixing Lagoa and Momentum. You would simply simulate the liquid by Lagoa with your Rigid Body meshes as collision object. So you would need a Deform Bodie with ICE controls, and your ICE controls would sample the closest Lagoa particles and create a force based on their average velocities. I think that would be doable as well. I haven't tried any of these techniques myself, but that's where I would start experimenting. Now if you need to do a big flood, you will probably need a lot of particles to have a nice looking simulation. I hope you have a good machine with a lot of memory and a lot of patience. Lagoa is best suited for smaller scale simulation. It's not the best for large scale liquid simulations. I would look into Houdini or Naiad (if it's still available after Autodesk bought them) for better and quicker results. Maybe even Realflow could be a better option. But if staying inside Softimage is a must, I would explore these two suggestions. Good luck! Your going to need it. -Mathieu Pablo Tufaro wrote: Well, that may work...! I will investigate a little bit on that one! Thanks ! pablo. El 10/18/2012 4:03 PM, Oleg Bliznuk escribió: Here is some work on liquid-rbd interaction http://si-community.com/** community/viewtopic.php?f=4t=**281http://si-community.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=4t=281 I think adding backward influence is much more easy task -- - Ciaran
Re: flood simulation
p.s. I miss you Naiad Me too, but there might be other solutions coming up. Here's one: http://www.qualoth.com/home/product/flux.asp I've never seen it or heard of anyone using it so far though, looks like a pretty young product. Btw, Does ne1 know how Houdini compares to Realflow and Naiad in terms of fluid simulation speed? Hi, so it's pretty simple after all to have interesting interaction between RBDs and Lagoa simulations: https://vimeo.com/51754990. But, if you have a bunch of objects in your scene that need to interact with the fluid, you'll need to instance them to a pointcloud - not such a big deal most of the time. There is a small bug with this setup, if you remove members from the ICE topology group, it may crash. Safer just to make a new group. So as far as I see it the problem is not really interaction with the fluids, that's easy. The problem is more like scalability. If you want a huge, end of the world type of flood then Lagoa won't scale too well at all. Realflow is probably the best commercial solution for massive simulations right now. But, if you're just flooding the bathroom, then Lagoa may well do the job! Ciaran . On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Pablo Tufaro pablo@gmail.com wrote: Thank you very much for taking the time to write all this. I think I have to find a solution outside softimage. Thank you very much really. I will keep you posted with the advances if I reach one! P. El 10/18/2012 6:34 PM, Mathieu Leclaire escribió: This is not an easy task to accomplish in Softimage, but it is doable. I see two possible avenue I would explore: 1 - What I would try with Lagoa is emitting elastic particles for your rigid objects and make the elasticity very stiff. Make sure they have an ID based on the emitted mesh and a transformation relative to that emitter. Then, at every iteration, I'd figure out a way to average these particles transforms by ID to create a transform for the rigid particle group that I would apply to the rigid object. So the particle group (by ID) moves the mesh. Once you get that average tranform, I would overwrite these elastic particle positions by multiplying their saved relative transform by that new average transform and basically bring them back into a rest state. That'll avoid the rigid mass of particle to deform by their elastic properties and will allow proper collision for the liquid particles. You are forcing particle positions so it might insert some instabilities in the simulation, but I think it should work. So to recap, you let the elastic group deform and interact with the liquid group in one iteration. Then you undeform the elastic group by their averages to bring them back to a stable state as if it where actually rigid. You then simply match the transform of your rigid objects to that of it's relative group average transform and you keep iterating. That's one way. 2 - A second way would be by mixing Lagoa and Momentum. You would simply simulate the liquid by Lagoa with your Rigid Body meshes as collision object. So you would need a Deform Bodie with ICE controls, and your ICE controls would sample the closest Lagoa particles and create a force based on their average velocities. I think that would be doable as well. I haven't tried any of these techniques myself, but that's where I would start experimenting. Now if you need to do a big flood, you will probably need a lot of particles to have a nice looking simulation. I hope you have a good machine with a lot of memory and a lot of patience. Lagoa is best suited for smaller scale simulation. It's not the best for large scale liquid simulations. I would look into Houdini or Naiad (if it's still available after Autodesk bought them) for better and quicker results. Maybe even Realflow could be a better option. But if staying inside Softimage is a must, I would explore these two suggestions. Good luck! Your going to need it. -Mathieu Pablo Tufaro wrote: Well, that may work...! I will investigate a little bit on that one! Thanks ! pablo. El 10/18/2012 4:03 PM, Oleg Bliznuk escribió: Here is some work on liquid-rbd interaction http://si-community.com/** community/viewtopic.php?f=4t=**281http://si-community.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=4t=281 I think adding backward influence is much more easy task -- --- Stefan Kubicek Co-founder --- keyvis digital imagery Wehrgasse 9 - Grüner Hof 1050 Vienna Austria Phone:+43/699/12614231 --- www.keyvis.at ste...@keyvis.at --- -- This email and its attachments are --confidential and for the recipient only--
Re: flood simulation
Thanks Alan, but I cant find any example of how to achieve this I will keep looking. Cheers! P. El 10/17/2012 8:42 PM, Alan Fregtman escribió: Lagoa is a unified simulator which means it combines several solvers in the same evaluation, which is to say you can theoretically do water, cloth, softbodies and rigidbodies... so yes, you can. On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Pablo Tufaro pablo@gmail.com mailto:pablo@gmail.com wrote: Hello everybody! I just want to know if its possible to make rigid body objects, interact with lagoa fluid simulations. I have to make a flood effect and I dont know if I have to animate the objects that the water colide by hand or if the simulation can take care of it. Couldnt find anything in the manual. Cheers to all! P.
Re: flood simulation
One can make water collide and interact against particle RBDs but not whole objects. Maybe if one can voxelize one object into particles and cluster them together in some way... dont know if it is possible... I wonder if Thiago still checks this list once in a while...
Re: flood simulation
That is true, Olegs PhisyX SPH exposed thingy might be much better for such work... IF you want to stay withing SI. But then I dont know how well it plays with the rest of SIs PhisyX simulation enviroment (RBDs and all). Oh what a mess :/
RE: flood simulation
You could use a very rigid phase, and use that to advect the geo. Just thinking out loud - I haven't actually tried this. gray From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Gustavo Eggert Boehs Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 01:19 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: flood simulation One can make water collide and interact against particle RBDs but not whole objects. Maybe if one can voxelize one object into particles and cluster them together in some way... dont know if it is possible... I wonder if Thiago still checks this list once in a while... attachment: winmail.dat
Re: flood simulation
Hi, you can get some funky two-way coupling between lagoa and bullet RBD particles. There is some trickery involving ICE topo and instances to get interaction to work in both directions, I'll post an example some time. Ciaran On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Pablo Tufaro pablo@gmail.com wrote: OK OK! I see... I will check out other options I think. Thanks to all. P. El 10/18/2012 2:23 PM, Peter Agg escribió: You could potentially use ICE modelling to make actual geo to collide with instead of instances. But doing that with Lagoa for something as large scale as a flood would be... brave. :) On 18 October 2012 18:18, Gustavo Eggert Boehs gustav...@gmail.comwrote: One can make water collide and interact against particle RBDs but not whole objects. Maybe if one can voxelize one object into particles and cluster them together in some way... dont know if it is possible... I wonder if Thiago still checks this list once in a while... -- - Ciaran
Re: flood simulation
Well, that may work...! I will investigate a little bit on that one! Thanks ! pablo. El 10/18/2012 4:03 PM, Oleg Bliznuk escribió: Here is some work on liquid-rbd interaction http://si-community.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=4t=281 I think adding backward influence is much more easy task
Re: flood simulation
This is not an easy task to accomplish in Softimage, but it is doable. I see two possible avenue I would explore: 1 - What I would try with Lagoa is emitting elastic particles for your rigid objects and make the elasticity very stiff. Make sure they have an ID based on the emitted mesh and a transformation relative to that emitter. Then, at every iteration, I'd figure out a way to average these particles transforms by ID to create a transform for the rigid particle group that I would apply to the rigid object. So the particle group (by ID) moves the mesh. Once you get that average tranform, I would overwrite these elastic particle positions by multiplying their saved relative transform by that new average transform and basically bring them back into a rest state. That'll avoid the rigid mass of particle to deform by their elastic properties and will allow proper collision for the liquid particles. You are forcing particle positions so it might insert some instabilities in the simulation, but I think it should work. So to recap, you let the elastic group deform and interact with the liquid group in one iteration. Then you undeform the elastic group by their averages to bring them back to a stable state as if it where actually rigid. You then simply match the transform of your rigid objects to that of it's relative group average transform and you keep iterating. That's one way. 2 - A second way would be by mixing Lagoa and Momentum. You would simply simulate the liquid by Lagoa with your Rigid Body meshes as collision object. So you would need a Deform Bodie with ICE controls, and your ICE controls would sample the closest Lagoa particles and create a force based on their average velocities. I think that would be doable as well. I haven't tried any of these techniques myself, but that's where I would start experimenting. Now if you need to do a big flood, you will probably need a lot of particles to have a nice looking simulation. I hope you have a good machine with a lot of memory and a lot of patience. Lagoa is best suited for smaller scale simulation. It's not the best for large scale liquid simulations. I would look into Houdini or Naiad (if it's still available after Autodesk bought them) for better and quicker results. Maybe even Realflow could be a better option. But if staying inside Softimage is a must, I would explore these two suggestions. Good luck! Your going to need it. -Mathieu Pablo Tufaro wrote: Well, that may work...! I will investigate a little bit on that one! Thanks ! pablo. El 10/18/2012 4:03 PM, Oleg Bliznuk escribió: Here is some work on liquid-rbd interaction http://si-community.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=4t=281 I think adding backward influence is much more easy task
Re: flood simulation
Thank you very much for taking the time to write all this. I think I have to find a solution outside softimage. Thank you very much really. I will keep you posted with the advances if I reach one! P. El 10/18/2012 6:34 PM, Mathieu Leclaire escribió: This is not an easy task to accomplish in Softimage, but it is doable. I see two possible avenue I would explore: 1 - What I would try with Lagoa is emitting elastic particles for your rigid objects and make the elasticity very stiff. Make sure they have an ID based on the emitted mesh and a transformation relative to that emitter. Then, at every iteration, I'd figure out a way to average these particles transforms by ID to create a transform for the rigid particle group that I would apply to the rigid object. So the particle group (by ID) moves the mesh. Once you get that average tranform, I would overwrite these elastic particle positions by multiplying their saved relative transform by that new average transform and basically bring them back into a rest state. That'll avoid the rigid mass of particle to deform by their elastic properties and will allow proper collision for the liquid particles. You are forcing particle positions so it might insert some instabilities in the simulation, but I think it should work. So to recap, you let the elastic group deform and interact with the liquid group in one iteration. Then you undeform the elastic group by their averages to bring them back to a stable state as if it where actually rigid. You then simply match the transform of your rigid objects to that of it's relative group average transform and you keep iterating. That's one way. 2 - A second way would be by mixing Lagoa and Momentum. You would simply simulate the liquid by Lagoa with your Rigid Body meshes as collision object. So you would need a Deform Bodie with ICE controls, and your ICE controls would sample the closest Lagoa particles and create a force based on their average velocities. I think that would be doable as well. I haven't tried any of these techniques myself, but that's where I would start experimenting. Now if you need to do a big flood, you will probably need a lot of particles to have a nice looking simulation. I hope you have a good machine with a lot of memory and a lot of patience. Lagoa is best suited for smaller scale simulation. It's not the best for large scale liquid simulations. I would look into Houdini or Naiad (if it's still available after Autodesk bought them) for better and quicker results. Maybe even Realflow could be a better option. But if staying inside Softimage is a must, I would explore these two suggestions. Good luck! Your going to need it. -Mathieu Pablo Tufaro wrote: Well, that may work...! I will investigate a little bit on that one! Thanks ! pablo. El 10/18/2012 4:03 PM, Oleg Bliznuk escribió: Here is some work on liquid-rbd interaction http://si-community.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=4t=281 I think adding backward influence is much more easy task
flood simulation
Hello everybody! I just want to know if its possible to make rigid body objects, interact with lagoa fluid simulations. I have to make a flood effect and I dont know if I have to animate the objects that the water colide by hand or if the simulation can take care of it. Couldnt find anything in the manual. Cheers to all! P.
Re: flood simulation
Lagoa is a unified simulator which means it combines several solvers in the same evaluation, which is to say you can theoretically do water, cloth, softbodies and rigidbodies... so yes, you can. On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Pablo Tufaro pablo@gmail.com wrote: Hello everybody! I just want to know if its possible to make rigid body objects, interact with lagoa fluid simulations. I have to make a flood effect and I dont know if I have to animate the objects that the water colide by hand or if the simulation can take care of it. Couldnt find anything in the manual. Cheers to all! P.
