Re: Pump pads

2017-06-13 Thread Tom Wellen 

Xylem Information on Pads:

Pads

Pumps are usually not anchored directly to floors, whether the floor is the 
slab-on-grade concrete floor, or an above-grade floor or the building roof. If 
installing a pump on the slab, housekeeping pads are used to elevate the pump 
and faciliate anchoring bolts. When mounted above the slab, or, when extra 
vibration control is needed, pumps are mounted on inertia bases.

Concrete pads, also called housekeeping pads, are typically 4-in. high, but the 
height depends on the size of the anchor bolts. Housekeeping pads provide a 
solid anchor, protect the pump and motor from shallow floods and floor 
cleaners, and help keep feet away from moving machinery. Housekeeping pads 
usually extend past the pump 6-in. on all sides, which provides room for 
service.

Inertia bases are used when floor-mounted pumps are on floors above grade – 
such as rooftops and mid-floor equipment rooms. They may also be used in 
noise/vibration-sensitive environments, such as performing arts centers and 
research laboratories. Inertia bases consist of heavy-duty metal frames and 
vibration isolators, and they form a cavity that is filled with concrete or 
non-shrinking grout for additional stability.  Because they cost more than 
concrete pads, engineers should only specify them when they’re really needed.


Tom Wellen


> On Jun 13, 2017, at 8:43 AM, Matt Grise <m...@afpsprink.com> wrote:
> 
> Are there any documents available from the pump suppliers that show pad 
> requirements?
>  
> Matt 
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] 
> On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 8:41 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: RE: Pump pads
>  
> Playing DA, (Not district Attorney), If taken out of the mandating books, how 
> do we make the “other guy” do what we know is correct.
>  
> R/
> Matt
>  
> Matthew J. Willis
> Project Manager
> Rapid Fire Protection Inc. <http://rapidfireinc.com/>
> 1530 Samco Road
> Rapid City, SD 57702
> Office-605.348.2342
> Direct Line-605.593.5063
> Cell-605.391.2733
> Fax:-605.348.0108
>  
> 
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Tom 
> Duross
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:06 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
> Subject: RE: Pump pads
>  
> A peeve of mine.  Pads are a building code item taken out of chapter 9 and 
> #20 because many manufacturers are different.
> Rule of thumb.  Pad is required, grouting dependent upon manufacturers base 
> design.  Pad (and grout) should assume 3x the mass (weight) of driving 
> equipment and extend a minimum of 6” beyond doweled anchors on all sides.
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Dewayne 
> Martinez
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 5:04 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
> Cc: dmarti...@total-mechanical.com <mailto:dmarti...@total-mechanical.com>
> Subject: RE: Pump pads
>  
> I was taught it was a requirement of the pump manufactures for horizontal 
> split case pumps. 
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of John 
> Irwin
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 11:11 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
> Subject: Pump pads
>  
> We have a client who wants us to install our pumps directly to the floor with 
> no maintenance pads. We can't find a requirement in 20 that says we must have 
> pads.
>  
> What say you?
>  
>  
>  
> John Irwin 
> Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers
> Critical System Solutions 
> jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com 
> <mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com> 
> 813-618-2781
>  
>  
> Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and 
> punctuation gaffes.
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> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

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RE: Pump pads

2017-06-13 Thread Matt Grise 
Are there any documents available from the pump suppliers that show pad 
requirements?

Matt

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Matthew J Willis
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 8:41 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Pump pads

Playing DA, (Not district Attorney), If taken out of the mandating books, how 
do we make the “other guy” do what we know is correct.

R/
Matt

Matthew J. Willis
Project Manager
Rapid Fire Protection Inc.<http://rapidfireinc.com/>
1530 Samco Road
Rapid City, SD 57702
Office-605.348.2342
Direct Line-605.593.5063
Cell-605.391.2733
Fax:-605.348.0108

[cid:image001.png@01D2E421.AB30]

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Tom Duross
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:06 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: Pump pads

A peeve of mine.  Pads are a building code item taken out of chapter 9 and #20 
because many manufacturers are different.
Rule of thumb.  Pad is required, grouting dependent upon manufacturers base 
design.  Pad (and grout) should assume 3x the mass (weight) of driving 
equipment and extend a minimum of 6” beyond doweled anchors on all sides.

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 5:04 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: dmarti...@total-mechanical.com<mailto:dmarti...@total-mechanical.com>
Subject: RE: Pump pads

I was taught it was a requirement of the pump manufactures for horizontal split 
case pumps.

From: Sprinklerforum 
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>]
 On Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 11:11 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Pump pads

We have a client who wants us to install our pumps directly to the floor with 
no maintenance pads. We can't find a requirement in 20 that says we must have 
pads.

What say you?



John Irwin
Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers
Critical System Solutions
jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com<mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com>
813-618-2781


Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and 
punctuation gaffes.
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RE: Pump pads

2017-06-13 Thread Matthew J Willis 
Playing DA, (Not district Attorney), If taken out of the mandating books, how 
do we make the “other guy” do what we know is correct.

R/
Matt

Matthew J. Willis
Project Manager
Rapid Fire Protection Inc.<http://rapidfireinc.com/>
1530 Samco Road
Rapid City, SD 57702
Office-605.348.2342
Direct Line-605.593.5063
Cell-605.391.2733
Fax:-605.348.0108

[cid:image001.png@01D159E8.1A3A2D00]

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Tom Duross
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:06 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Pump pads

A peeve of mine.  Pads are a building code item taken out of chapter 9 and #20 
because many manufacturers are different.
Rule of thumb.  Pad is required, grouting dependent upon manufacturers base 
design.  Pad (and grout) should assume 3x the mass (weight) of driving 
equipment and extend a minimum of 6” beyond doweled anchors on all sides.

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 5:04 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: dmarti...@total-mechanical.com<mailto:dmarti...@total-mechanical.com>
Subject: RE: Pump pads

I was taught it was a requirement of the pump manufactures for horizontal split 
case pumps.

From: Sprinklerforum 
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>]
 On Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 11:11 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Pump pads

We have a client who wants us to install our pumps directly to the floor with 
no maintenance pads. We can't find a requirement in 20 that says we must have 
pads.

What say you?



John Irwin
Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers
Critical System Solutions
jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com<mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com>
813-618-2781


Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and 
punctuation gaffes.
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RE: Pump pads

2017-06-12 Thread Tom Duross 
A peeve of mine.  Pads are a building code item taken out of chapter 9 and #20 
because many manufacturers are different.

Rule of thumb.  Pad is required, grouting dependent upon manufacturers base 
design.  Pad (and grout) should assume 3x the mass (weight) of driving 
equipment and extend a minimum of 6” beyond doweled anchors on all sides.

 

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 5:04 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: dmarti...@total-mechanical.com
Subject: RE: Pump pads

 

I was taught it was a requirement of the pump manufactures for horizontal split 
case pumps. 

 

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org 
<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> ] On Behalf Of John 
Irwin
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 11:11 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> 
Subject: Pump pads

 

We have a client who wants us to install our pumps directly to the floor with 
no maintenance pads. We can't find a requirement in 20 that says we must have 
pads.

 

What say you?

 

 

 

John Irwin 

Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers

Critical System Solutions 

jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com <mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com>  

813-618-2781

 

 

Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and 
punctuation gaffes.

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RE: Pump pads

2017-06-12 Thread Dewayne Martinez 
I was taught it was a requirement of the pump manufactures for horizontal
split case pumps.



*From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *John Irwin
*Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2017 11:11 AM
*To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
*Subject:* Pump pads



We have a client who wants us to install our pumps directly to the floor
with no maintenance pads. We can't find a requirement in 20 that says we
must have pads.



What say you?







John Irwin

Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers

Critical System Solutions

jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com

813-618-2781





Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and
punctuation gaffes.
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RE: Pump pads

2017-06-12 Thread Art Tiroly 
I saw it done some years ago by pipe fitters and it made me laugh.

The fittings were below the concrete floor so they gouged to floor for the 
flanges.

If you need to go back underground the ell won’t fit  at the floor.





Art Tiroly

ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly

24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143

216-621-8899

216-570-7030 cell







From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 12:11 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Pump pads



We have a client who wants us to install our pumps directly to the floor with 
no maintenance pads. We can't find a requirement in 20 that says we must have 
pads.



What say you?







John Irwin

Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers

Critical System Solutions

jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com

813-618-2781





Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and 
punctuation gaffes.



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RE: Pump pads

2017-06-12 Thread Ed . Tambini 
Isn’t there something that says the motor must be at least 12” off the floor?

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Mitchell, Scott
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 9:25 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Pump pads

NFPA 20 does not explicitly require a pad.  However, proper alignment of the 
pump, driver, suction/discharge piping and requirements of 6.4 may implicitly 
require a pad.

J. Scott Mitchell, PE
Senior Fire Protection Engineer
Mission Engineering
CNS Y-12 | 865-576-5258
CNS PTX | 806-477-5883


From: Sprinklerforum 
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]<mailto:[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]>
 On Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 12:11 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Pump pads

We have a client who wants us to install our pumps directly to the floor with 
no maintenance pads. We can't find a requirement in 20 that says we must have 
pads.

What say you?



John Irwin
Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers
Critical System Solutions
jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com<mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com>
813-618-2781


Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and 
punctuation gaffes.
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RE: Pump pads

2017-06-12 Thread Mitchell, Scott 
NFPA 20 does not explicitly require a pad.  However, proper alignment of the 
pump, driver, suction/discharge piping and requirements of 6.4 may implicitly 
require a pad.

J. Scott Mitchell, PE
Senior Fire Protection Engineer
Mission Engineering
CNS Y-12 | 865-576-5258
CNS PTX | 806-477-5883


From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 12:11 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Pump pads

We have a client who wants us to install our pumps directly to the floor with 
no maintenance pads. We can't find a requirement in 20 that says we must have 
pads.

What say you?



John Irwin
Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers
Critical System Solutions
jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com
813-618-2781


Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and 
punctuation gaffes.
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