Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS 8.3 on macOS Ventura

2022-11-08 Thread sgmlaw


psmciner...@comcast.net wrote: 
> Well, I persisted with the balky receivers and finally got the
> controller properly connected. Thanks very much to Michael and sgmlaw
> for their help and encouragement.
> 
> Dan McInerney

Glad to hear it.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] High resolution FLACs (192/24) stuttering during playback

2022-11-08 Thread sgmlaw

rbl wrote: 
> I'm trying to play high resolution 192/24 FLACs via LMS 8.1.2 on a Pi4
> to two wired SB3s. Playback breaks up every couple of minutes. Why is
> this? I am happy for it to just transcode to 48/16 by simply discarding
> the extra information.

The RPi is having to transcode those streams down on the fly to a
reduced bitstream to accommodate the SB3s.  And the 4s are prone to run
hot to begin with.  I would make sure the Pi has adequate cooling and is
not periodically throttling down under load, as they sometimes do.  That
could cause streaming interruptions.  

If everything is connected via Ethernet, there should be no other
bottlenecks for what should be a 705 kbps stream, even in a 10/100
network.

If all you have are SB3s, I would just recode it down to 44/16 wav using
dbPoweramp, and relieve both ends from having to do any meaningful
processing work.  A Redbook wav file in 2022 is pocket change for
storage and streaming purposes and plays on anything with no headaches.

I remember the heated arguments here a couple decades ago over flac vs.
wav, when people were struggling with 400GB HDDs and 802.11g routers. 
With today’s 4k video files and 20TB drives, those arguments are now
quaint in hindsight.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS 8.3 on macOS Ventura

2022-11-02 Thread sgmlaw


psmciner...@comcast.net wrote: 
> Thanks very much sgmlaw-
> 
> The router shows the receiver with which I am working, which is
> connected to the Mac by ethernet, as active and the green light is on. I
> have tried rebooting everything several times
> 
> I take your point about sound quality with wall plug devices. Only I of
> my 2 receivers works via wall plug and I am not working with that one,
> preferring to start with the ethernet-connected receiver. That said, I
> unplugged the wall plug device with no effect on the problem
> 
> I did try to redo things by restoring factory settings on the controller
> may times and connecting it first to the network. No dice there,
> either.
> 
> Based on past advice from Michael, I had shut down the firewall and made
> sure that perl and perl 5 had full disk access. I also shut down my
> security software-Bitdefender.
> 
> Not sure what a PSU is, but I suppose the power cord could be the
> problem. I switched with the power cord for my other receiver and had no
> different result.
> 
> I'm going to let this sit for a few days and then come back to it. Not
> optimistic. But thank you very much for taking the time to suggest to me
> some things I had not previously tried. They were very much worth a
> shot.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Dan McInerney

When you say the green light is on, I presume it is not the green light
on the Receiver.  A sustained green light on the Receiver is a problem,
and indicates it is awaiting a DHCP assignment.

"PSU" means "power supply unit".  In the case of most all Squeezeboxes
made (excepting the Transporter, and that has it's own internal 5v PSU
issues), that is the external plug in wall wart that supplies the device
its power.  Many of these wall warts have been in service well past
their design lives.  With increasing age, 90% of present Squeezebox
problems can be traced back to a weak and/or failing PSU.  If still
original, it can go at any time.  The good news is, most all are easily
replaceable with generic units available on Ebay and many electronics
supply houses.  I always keep an assortment of spare PSUs on hand.  

Just be sure to match up the appropriate output voltage, amperage, and
the correct plug configuration for your player.  My recollection is that
the Receiver uses a 9v/1A or better, center-positive, 1.05mm x 3.5mm
supply.  If you cannot find an exact fit, the absolute worst case is
that you can splice the old power connector to a new 9v PSU.

I would not abandon the SB ecosystem over a balky Receiver.  As
streaming platforms go, the community supported LMS one is still quite
good, with a virtually insignificant resource footprint, and free.  I
tried Roon.  IMO, it is way overpriced and a resource pig.  Hopefully,
Roon eventually figured out how to stream Internet radio stations,
something LMS does easily.  Conversely, you can run LMS off a Raspberry
Pi, a $30 mini computer smaller than a pack of cigarettes. 

If you give up on the balky Receiver, a Touch is a much better, more
versatile player, and those now routinely sell for under $150 used.  Or
cheaper still is a Raspberry Pi client.  Get iPeng on your phone or pad
to run it, and you're all set.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS 8.3 on macOS Ventura

2022-11-02 Thread sgmlaw


psmciner...@comcast.net wrote: 
> I upgraded my iMac (with the silicon chip) to Ventura last week and, as
> with most recent Mac OS upgrades, LMS and my players will not work
> without putzing around after installing the upgrade. Upgrading to LMS
> 8.3 did not change the situation.
> 
> My Squeezebox is a Duet, with 2 Squeezebox receiver players and several
> other players (2 Apple TVs, my AVR receiver) have been added to the 2
> Squeezebox receivers. I run the Duet in hybrid mode, with LMS on my Mac
> connected to one receiver (feeding into my AVR) with ethernet cable and
> the other receiver being connected via wall plug ethernet. The music
> library on the Mac is contained in an external hard drive connected to
> the Mac.
> 
> After installing 8.3 and granting it full disk access and getting around
> the Mac firewall, LMS on the Mac sees the non-Squeezebox players, but
> not the Squeezebox receivers. LMS will not play through to these
> receivers, however, showing my library only on the Mac. LMS "plays" on
> the Mac, but no sound emanates from the Mac's speakers.
> 
> I have attempted to access one of the Squeezebox receivers via the Duet
> controller and I can get it connected via ethernet, and it sees my
> library on my Mac, but it cannot connect to the library.
> 
> The preference pane Michael shows above seems substantively the same as
> mine.
> 
> Trying to make things work through the terminal, as Michael suggests,
> failed.
> 
> I cannot successfully access the scanner log, apparently.
> 
> Would appreciate any insight people would care to offer regarding
> resolving this problem I am a retired lawyer, not a tech guy.
> 
> Thank you

I have a large contingent of Squeezeboxes, of most models.   Even
Ethernet-connected, the model that presents the most difficult network
issues are the Receivers.  Even the AX Router Wi-Fi incompatibility
issue with Squeezeboxes pales in comparison at times.  So you are not
alone with your struggle.

My suspicion is that this is not an LMS issue, but a networking one.

A first step is to go into the Router administration portal and check
the connected device table.  Make sure there is not an active IP address
conflict involving that client.  Also, make sure that the Receivers are
coming up in the tables.  If they're not, that's a giveaway.  A Receiver
will also give itself away by its status lamp.  Unless the lamp is out
(connected, off) or a soft white (connected, on), it is not connected to
the network.  Unfortunately, even the status lamp is not dispositive of
functional networking with the Receivers.

Next go around your local network, and starting with the server machine,
reboot that machine, and then reboot all the SB clients.  Temporarily
remove power line networking from your setup.  Unplug the power line
modules and connect the Receivers directly to the Router to eliminate
that trouble source.  

One aside about power line networking if you are an audio enthusiast. 
Those plug-in modules inject a tremendous amount of broadband noise on
their mains lines, some of which can get into the power supplies of your
audio equipment.  And yes, it can be audible.  I've used them as an
absolute last resort where a Wi-Fi media bridge won't work.  But the
line noise is a high price to pay, and line filtration is often required
to get rid of it.  If you can pull it off with an EX2700 wireless media
bridge (802.11n), that is the cleaner solution.

Some other initial steps are to clear the IP table on your Router. 
Sometimes, that is as easy as a Router reboot.  Eventually, if you do
nothing, a Router will clear itself via lease renewals, but that can
take days.  Once the table is cleared, the router's DHCP server will
reassign the clients on reboot without conflicts.  Even absent an
obvious conflict, clearing the Router's assignment table sometimes gets
a client working again.

However ... sometimes it takes repeated attempts with the Controller to
properly configure a Receiver to a network.  And that is the only way to
get it to connect.  Don't ask me why this is, but it can be so at times.
And absent some obscure terminal commands, the only effective way to do
it is with a Controller.  Make sure the Controller is on your network
first before configuring the Receiver.

And as a long-shot, you can try this (as it once coincided with some
lingering networking issues on a Receiver): if the PSU is original,
replace it.  As these old wall warts fade, they can create some issues
before they finally die.  We had one Receiver exhibit increasing network
disconnects and networking difficulties in the month or so before the
PSU finally died.  Once a fresh PSU was attached, it has worked
perfectly ever since.

Because you are also experiencing playback issues at the server machine,
the other thing to make sure of, as has been alluded, is that all the
Mac's disk access protections involving LMS are disabled.  That
primarily involves allowing full disk access for Perl and Perl5.  If 

Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS 8.3 on macOS Ventura

2022-10-24 Thread sgmlaw

mherger wrote: 
> > Ventura promptly broke the latest 8.2 build on our system.
> 
> In what way? Did you get any error message?
> 
> > Is 8.3 more ‘Ventura ready’ than 8.2?  Should I upgrade to 8.3?
> 
> The big difference between 8.3 and 8.2 is that the former now comes with
> 
> its own Perl environment. It's no longer relying on Apple's Perl. It 
> seems the old Perl was still around. But I haven't tried using it yet.
> 
> So yes, 8.3 might be better prepared for Ventura.



Once Ventura was installed, the LMS 8.2 server completely refused to
start.

I didn't dive into the server logs to see what was hanging it up.  It
was easier to just make the move to 8.3.  

Installing 8.3 took seconds, and once I installed the right version, it
started right up.  It is playing music as I type this.  

My only surprise was that the Legacy version did not work on our Intel
Mac.  It required the full version with Apple Silicon support to work
... even on an Intel.

I imagine 8.3 is mature enough by this point to be de facto "stable".

I've had much rougher MacOS/LMS upgrades than this one.  So all things
considered, this one was smooth.  And LMS 8.3 was ready for Ventura.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS 8.3 on macOS Ventura

2022-10-24 Thread sgmlaw

Ventura promptly broke the latest 8.2 build on our system.

Is 8.3 more ‘Ventura ready’ than 8.2?  Should I upgrade to 8.3?

Otherwise, I will have to do an OS rollback via TimeMachine to try and
get LMS working again.

LMS is more important around here.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS and Mac OSX 11 (Big Sur)

2020-11-18 Thread sgmlaw


mherger wrote: 
> > However, I did lose the graphical interface, but not functionality,
> from
> > my current SqueezePlay install.  It can be operated via the LMS web
> > interface for now.
> There's an updated Squeezeplay available which fixes this issue.
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/lmsclients/files/squeezeplay/osx/
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> 
> Michael

Wonderful!

Thanks for the heads-up.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS and Mac OSX 11 (Big Sur)

2020-11-17 Thread sgmlaw


apassio wrote: 
> Hello, anyone has tried to run LMS on Big Sur? Currently running 7.9.4
> on Catalina (having had to tweak file permissions for perl). Any
> suggestions before I upgrade Mac OSX? Thanks.

I had a perfect upgrade to OS X 11 from a working Catalina install of
LMS 7.9.4.  All permissions carried over.  No problems whatsoever.

So once you have LMS working right on Catalina, you should be ok.

However, I did lose the graphical interface, but not functionality, from
my current SqueezePlay install.  It can be operated via the LMS web
interface for now.

I'm sure that problem will be updated in due time.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2020-10-05 Thread sgmlaw


mherger wrote: 
> > Failure is expressed by the target media folder no longer being
> visible
> > or accessible to LMS.
> 
> But LMS does start? Then it certainly is a permissions issue. Try to 
> give perl5.18 full access, too.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael

I had been hobbling along with a very old build for about two months,
because of the multiple perl permissions issues.  The old build was
running fine, so I just ignored it.

But D perl5.18 into Full Disk Access solved this for me as well.

The trick is you have to do it from Finder, and not from the System Pref
pane, as the latter does not allow you to access system/protected files
for some reason.  

Those files protected files can be accessed via a standard Finder pane,
by using the (Cmd + Shift + . (dot)) command.  

Then it's a simple D into Full Disk Access and a system restart.

...

I must say, running LMS on a Mac in 2020 is increasingly a labor of
love.  Like running a steeplechase race.

Once Big Sur hits, I'm sure we'll have a new thread and new set of
obstacles and closed doors to navigate.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2020-08-20 Thread sgmlaw


mherger wrote: 
> > For all versions of LMS later than 7.9.3-1596358162 (Aug 3, 2020) I
> lose
> > all LMS permissions to access the external drive containing my Media
> > Folder.
> 
> How would it fail?
> 
> > Has something changed after that particular build that requires
> > something more to maintain permissions?
> 
> I doubt it: I'm doing all development work on Catalina.
> 
> Would you happen to have multiple perl versions installed? What would 
> "perl -v" give you? What about "/usr/bin/perl5.18 -v"?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael


Yes.  There appears to be both perl5.18 and 5.28 installed on this
system. 

Failure is expressed by the target media folder no longer being visible
or accessible to LMS.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2020-08-19 Thread sgmlaw


Here's a new one.

For all versions of LMS later than 7.9.3-1596358162 (Aug 3, 2020) I lose
all LMS permissions to access the external drive containing my Media
Folder.

Deleting and re-selecting permissions for perl and bash after a later
build install and reboot do not restore the permissions. 

Running the usual terminal commands 'sudo mkdir -p
~/Library/Logs/Squeezebox' & 'sudo chown $USER
~/Library/Logs/Squeezebox' don't help either.

But rolling back the installation to 7.9.3-1596358162 always restores
full permissions.  So for now, I am trapped at that build version.

Has something changed after that particular build that requires
something more to maintain permissions?



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-22 Thread sgmlaw


Delahaye wrote: 
> LMS does not work properly in Catalina.
> 
> After I have not scanned for two days and have not changed anything on
> the system, the files are suddenly no longer accessible. Re-scanning LMS
> does not allow. After I restart the MacBook, LMS indicates that the
> library is empty. Everything must be scanned again.
> 
> Can this problem be remedied with a setting in Catalina or with an
> update in LMS 7.9.2?

See my above thread entries.  I experienced the exact same behavior.

It's a continuing permissions issue with Catalina.  I'm not sure it can
be fixed with an LMS revision.  But a revised Terminal script app might
do it. 

You need to go into System Preferences/Security & Privacy/Full Disk
Access, and allow certain LMS subroutines Full Disk Access as a
permanent setting.

The two I identified as they ghost appeared in the FDA pane were "sh"
and "perl".  But others are apparently having problems seeing them pop
up in the running FDA pane.  That behavior I cannot explain.

The good news is once the correct FDA permission is given, you never
have to do it again, and LMS starts and re-starts and runs with no
further issues.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-22 Thread sgmlaw

aka wrote: 
> Read and reread this thread over the past 3 days, nothing I tried was
> working. 
> Never got any alerts from Security to be able to allow Full Disc Access
> for 'perl' or 'sh' or anything else past allowing the Installer.
> So, on a whim, I gave *System Preferences* Full Disc Access.
> Uninstalled LMS
> Reinstalled LMS
> Then hit Rescan ‘Look for New and Changed Media’.
> So far so good!
> :cool:
> (I kick myself for not checking on this before jumping to Catalina -
> never again! eediot! :rolleyes: )


I think the biggest migration issue with Catalina involves these
elevated permissions.

Once the right permissions are given, LMS runs very smoothly under it --
and seems to keep running well thereafter.

Since getting things straight under Catalina, I've installed some
subsequent nightly beta updates (thank you Michael!).  No problems
whatsoever.

So it looks like a once-and-done process to work out those permissions. 
Sorry to hear you had to struggle with it.

Giving System Preferences generally full disk access is probably a
bigger security opening than you need.  But if it works, who's to argue.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-11 Thread sgmlaw


I'm still puzzled by this... I never was asked to change anything there,

nor do I see sh or perl in those lists!

Did you update to Catalina from an earlier macOS, or is this a new
system?

-- 

Michael

Michael,

No, you do not receive any direct alert or notification prompts to change
anything in Catalina as LMS starts.  LMS will simply not entirely
function.  The extent of non-function likely will depend on which
permissions are still lacking in the particular system.  

In my case, my Media Library disappeared, as LMS could no longer access it
on an external volume.  That is typically a file permissions issue.  This
was an upgrade situation, from Mojave to Catalina.  Not a clean install,
not a new system.  So in my implementation, the earlier terminal
permissions script had already been run under Mojave.  And I do not enable
a software firewall in my system.

So I could stream internet radio and access all the clients after the
upgrade to Catalina.  But in my install, Catalina would not allow LMS to
access local data volumes.

So in addition to the earlier terminal script commands under Mojave to
elevate some permissions, I also needed to open and change settings in the
Full Disc Access pane with Catalina.  

With the Full Disc Access pane open in System Preferences, as LMS starts,
you will see apps start to appear, as they seek disc access, for which
they do not yet have permissions.  

You have to manually go into the Full Disc Access pane and check them off
as they appear.  In my instance, two apps popped up as LMS started: perl
and sh.  Once both were given Full Disc Access, I recovered full LMS
functionality, and access to my Media Library folders on an external
volume was then permitted.  All is now well again.

The only lingering issue I am having involves two third-party plugins,
which I have already identified.  One is an obvious 32-bit issue, the
other easily resolved with a manual restart of that plugin.  Both
developers appear to be aware of the issues.  

Again, this file access issue is not novel, only the scope of it has
changed.  I had encountered it before under Mojave with third-party backup
solutions accessing OS-level folders.  Now under Catalina, disk access
permissions have become more aggressively applied across all volumes.  So
the prior experience under Mojave informed me where to check first.

I hope that clarifies things for those experiencing disappearing libraries
under Catalina.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-10 Thread sgmlaw


After fiddling with Catalina and LMS for a couple of days, I've finally
got it starting, re-starting and running smoothly again.  Here are some
observations, for those still struggling after the OS upgrade:

Applications will dynamically appear in the Full Disk Access pane as LMS
goes through its processes.  You need to then unlock the pane as they
appear, and then check those applications to elevate their permissions.

In Full Disk Access permissions, two LMS-related applications arise:
"sh", and "perl".  Once those two applications are given permissions
under Full Disk Access, LMS starts and works normally again.

This is in addition to any prior terminal-based permissions commands
that may have been required under Mojave.  As a preemptive measure, it
may be a good idea to re-run the terminal script application if Catalina
has reset those permissions.

All plugins in my LMS implementation, with the exception of PlayWMA, are
now starting and operating normally.  PlayWMA currently relies on a
32-bit version of MPlayer, which is unsupported under Catalina.

Should I encounter any further glitches with Catalina, I'll supplement
this thread.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-09 Thread sgmlaw


bpa wrote: 
> This really should be logged in the PlayWMA thread as it is nto part of
> LMS and it is only by accident I saw this as I have no Apple gear.

I did not know there was a PlayWMA thread.  But I'm very glad that you
stumbled on this.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-08 Thread sgmlaw

mherger wrote: 
> > HOWEVER, if it is not already on these lists, perl must be added to
> the
> > list of "Full Disc Access" applications in Security & Privacy
> settings
> > under System Preferences in Catalina.
> 
> Hmm... did macOS ask you to do so?
> 
> I'm wondering whether my using pre-release versions from the very early
> 
> days would show slightly different behaviour. I can't remember this.
> 
> Next year we'll likely face bigger issues: there are rumours that the 
> next version of macOS will no longer come with Perl installed :-(.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael

No.  What actually happened is that LMS could no longer access any
folders on the host system as media library targets.  The system gave no
prompts.  The media library just ‘disappeared’ in LMS, as “empty”.

In my LMS implementation, all media and user data except those forced to
the OS drive to run the apps, are kept on an external TB stack. 
Including all audio files.

Catalina now finally does that in a virtual sense via further hidden
partitioning of the boot volume into a “Data” drive, where OS user data
is kept.  Under Catalina, the core OS now operates in its own separate
read-only volume.  A protected play pen of sorts.  What I had been
indirectly trying to do for over 20 years.

In the past, the OS has left my external data drive mainly unmolested,
so there was never a library issue before.  But Catalina implements a
more aggressive file access protection/permissions protocol than Mojave.
It now more aggressively limits access to external and removable
drives.  I recalled encountering similar issues with 3rd party backup
apps in Mojave, as they also access the OS volume.  The workaround is to
give the apps full disk access permissions.  Once I was able to get perl
listed with those same permissions, LMS was able to access its external
library targets again.

Catalina is still a little buggy.  It took a couple reboots for the
permissions to finally stick as an automatic setting.  

There are some other bugs, such as MPlayer incompatibility, and the
chromecast bridge plugin needs to be manually restarted once LMS is
fully started.  Then it runs fine.  I presume it is a similar delayed
permissions hang.

If Apple drops perl, that will certainly make life harder.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-07 Thread sgmlaw


Confirmed that MPlayer -- and the PlayWMA plugin -- no longer work under
Catalina.

MPlayer OSX Extended does work in Catalina.  But LMS does not recognize
this version, and the PlayWMA plugin does not operate.

A fix to recognize 64-bit versions of MPlayer in future LMS Betas would
be most welcome.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-07 Thread sgmlaw


Having just upgraded to Catalina today, I can absolutely confirm that
SqueezePlay runs under it.

HOWEVER, if it is not already on these lists, perl must be added to the
list of "Full Disc Access" applications in Security & Privacy settings
under System Preferences in Catalina.  

Otherwise, LMS cannot access your local Media Library folders.

Once added, perl will also be automatically added to the list of apps
allowed to access files and folders under the "Files and Folders"
listing in that same Security & Privacy pane.

I have been unable to add perl only to the File and Folder access pane,
so it must be given Full Disc Access at this time.  This appears to be a
current limitation of Catalina.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-07 Thread sgmlaw


dborod wrote: 
> Can anyone confirm if SqueezePlay still works on Catalina? Activity
> Monitor reports that it's a 64-bit app, but that no guarantee.

I can confirm that SqueezePlay version 1034 or higher should work with
Catalina.  

If you have a fully updated version of Mojave, you will get a preemptive
warning prompt if the application is going to have a problem with
Catalina.  

I think the latest Mac version of SqueezePlay is r1101, but I have not
checked in a while.  Ralph Irving, the current developer, may have
further information.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] LMS on MacOS 10.15 "Catalina"?

2019-10-04 Thread sgmlaw


Not to hijack the thread, but what is the projected compatibility of
MPlayer with LMS under Catalina?

MPlayer has been a nice bridge app to allow seamless LMS playback of WMA
files.

Up to now, I have only found the earlier 32-bit versions of MPlayer to
work with LMS on my OSX systems. 

Newer MPlayer OSX Extended (64-bit) versions don't seem to work with LMS
7.9.x, at least not for me.

And Catalina will only run 64-bit apps.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Logitech Media Server 7.9.1 is out!

2018-12-11 Thread sgmlaw


Michael,

BTW, and I should probably say so every few weeks or so, but thanks for
keeping 7.9 up to date.  

We are starting to get quite a few years out from the end of SB
production, and it is a continuing comfort to check that nightly beta
download link every few weeks.



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