Re: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier)
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:49:44 +, Peter A. Pilgrim wrote: Would the same principle work with people who have taken Struts and integrated or embedded as another framework? Having spent some type integrating 1.1 into Expresso Framework in 2002, in our case can we be classified as Struts extenders? Also some repository will not want to become a sub project of Struts because of logical sense, politics or legal entity status? Something like Expresso is large enough to be a framework in its own right. If the Expresso Community ever wanted to apply to Apache for incubation as an ASF project, I'd certainly support the idea. Or, if there were a coherent subset of Expresso that could be used by Struts developers as an extension, independently of Expresso, that might be something that could live as a Struts opt-* modules. Personally, I'd love to see a proposal from Expresso of some helpful code that they would like to grant to the ASF -- especially if it gave us an excuse to nominate you as a committer, Peter. :) Of course, it is very true that not every open source project is suited for Apache. There is a specific Apache culture and management style that doesn't work for everyone. We would never simply annex a codebase and then redistribute it under the ASL. We consider the community behind a codebase to be more important than the code itself. It's the extension's community that we would pursue, more than the code itself. -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier)
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:31:51 -0500, Ted Husted wrote: Something like Expresso is large enough to be a framework s/framework/Apache project - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier)
Ted Husted wrote: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:49:44 +, Peter A. Pilgrim wrote: Would the same principle work with people who have taken Struts and integrated or embedded as another framework? Having spent some type integrating 1.1 into Expresso Framework in 2002, in our case can we be classified as Struts extenders? Also some repository will not want to become a sub project of Struts because of logical sense, politics or legal entity status? Something like Expresso is large enough to be a framework in its own right. If the Expresso Community ever wanted to apply to Apache for incubation as an ASF project, I'd certainly support the idea. Or, if there were a coherent subset of Expresso that could be used by Struts developers as an extension, independently of Expresso, that might be something that could live as a Struts opt-* modules. Personally, I'd love to see a proposal from Expresso of some helpful code that they would like to grant to the ASF -- especially if it gave us an excuse to nominate you as a committer, Peter. :) Not a decision I could make on my own, dear boy. You would have to discuss it with Expresso repository copyright holders. Just like the advert that ask please get permission from the (telephone) bill payer before calling the premium rate competition number. My view might be paraphrased as who ever legally owns the CVS repository and pays real money annually to host it to world wide web has the right to do what they please with the source code base. As for the framework itself, last year, we were looking at some componentisation and micro kernel-like idea but some teething problems prevent us in the present release from dismantling the framework and reassembling it. I suppose any component that might be presented piece-meal to ASF would be derived from this work. Hey, who knows? It's always purple hazey out there in the future. On the other hand. I can certainly see if I can help you personally on Struts 2.0 work in the meantime. Of course, it is very true that not every open source project is suited for Apache. There is a specific Apache culture and management style that doesn't work for everyone. We would never simply annex a codebase and then redistribute it under the ASL. We consider the community behind a codebase to be more important than the code itself. It's the extension's community that we would pursue, more than the code itself. Regards -- Peter Pilgrim __ _ _ _ / //__ // ___// ___/ + Serverside Java / /___/ // /__ / /__ + Struts / // ___// ___// ___/ + Expresso Committer __/ // /__ / /__ / /__ + Independent Contractor /___/////// + Intrinsic Motivation On Line Resume || \\=== `` http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/no-it-striker.html '' - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier)
Ted Husted wrote: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:31:51 -0500, Ted Husted wrote: Something like Expresso is large enough to be a framework s/framework/Apache project See my other earlier post for my views. -- Peter Pilgrim __ _ _ _ / //__ // ___// ___/ + Serverside Java / /___/ // /__ / /__ + Struts / // ___// ___// ___/ + Expresso Committer __/ // /__ / /__ / /__ + Independent Contractor /___/////// + Intrinsic Motivation On Line Resume || \\=== `` http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/no-it-striker.html '' - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier)
James Holmes wrote: +1 on this!! You hit the nail on the head. Many people (mostly managers) are reluctant to adopt Struts add-ons because they are not perceived as having the same tried and true stamp as the official Struts core. I think doing this would be a huge boon for Struts and would foster a lot of the development interest that's been talked about over the past couple of days. Also, +1 on having the creators of those projects become committers so long as they've shown a protracted history in maintaining their respective projects and have an interest to continue doing so. -James http://www.jamesholmes.com/struts/ Would the same principle work with people who have taken Struts and integrated or embedded as another framework? Having spent some type integrating 1.1 into Expresso Framework in 2002, in our case can we be classified as Struts extenders? Also some repository will not want to become a sub project of Struts because of logical sense, politics or legal entity status? - Here's something else to mull over: Now that Struts is a TLP, we might want to talk about whether we want to ask the most popular open source Struts extensions -- like Struts Menu, Workflow, Stxx, SSL, and TestCase -- whether they would like to donate their code to the ASF and live as Struts opt subprojects. This would be a continuation of what we started with Tiles, Validator, and Nested, which are all favorites with our community. People working on such packages might be brought on as Struts Committers, since they have proved they have what it takes to run a project, and after an appropriate period, later invited to join the Struts PMC. Kind regards -- Peter Pilgrim __ _ _ _ / //__ // ___// ___/ + Serverside Java / /___/ // /__ / /__ + Struts / // ___// ___// ___/ + Expresso Committer __/ // /__ / /__ / /__ + Independent Contractor /___/////// + Intrinsic Motivation On Line Resume || \\=== `` http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/no-it-striker.html '' - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier)
Not exactly sure what you're referring to here, but am guessing you mean would there be an offer for integrators/embedders to become committers? I personally think this makes sense for cases like Expresso. My point was to show my support for Ted's proposal (of sorts) that projects like stxx and sslext become sub projects of the top-level Struts project. -James http://www.jamesholmes.com/struts/ -Original Message- From: Peter A. Pilgrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:50 PM To: Struts Developers List Subject: Re: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier) James Holmes wrote: +1 on this!! You hit the nail on the head. Many people (mostly managers) are reluctant to adopt Struts add-ons because they are not perceived as having the same tried and true stamp as the official Struts core. I think doing this would be a huge boon for Struts and would foster a lot of the development interest that's been talked about over the past couple of days. Also, +1 on having the creators of those projects become committers so long as they've shown a protracted history in maintaining their respective projects and have an interest to continue doing so. -James http://www.jamesholmes.com/struts/ Would the same principle work with people who have taken Struts and integrated or embedded as another framework? Having spent some type integrating 1.1 into Expresso Framework in 2002, in our case can we be classified as Struts extenders? Also some repository will not want to become a sub project of Struts because of logical sense, politics or legal entity status? - Here's something else to mull over: Now that Struts is a TLP, we might want to talk about whether we want to ask the most popular open source Struts extensions -- like Struts Menu, Workflow, Stxx, SSL, and TestCase -- whether they would like to donate their code to the ASF and live as Struts opt subprojects. This would be a continuation of what we started with Tiles, Validator, and Nested, which are all favorites with our community. People working on such packages might be brought on as Struts Committers, since they have proved they have what it takes to run a project, and after an appropriate period, later invited to join the Struts PMC. Kind regards -- Peter Pilgrim __ _ _ _ / //__ // ___// ___/ + Serverside Java / /___/ // /__ / /__ + Struts / // ___// ___// ___/ + Expresso Committer __/ // /__ / /__ / /__ + Independent Contractor /___/////// + Intrinsic Motivation On Line Resume || \\=== `` http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/no-it-striker.html '' - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier)
James Holmes wrote: Not exactly sure what you're referring to here, but am guessing you mean would there be an offer for integrators/embedders to become committers? I personally think this makes sense for cases like Expresso. My point was to show my support for Ted's proposal (of sorts) that projects like stxx and sslext become sub projects of the top-level Struts project. I am not going to argue over the latter point. I could not agree more because projects like Stxx, Ssltext, and Workflow are ``true'' extensions of the Struts framework, because they could not logically exist without the Struts core itself. Whereas Expresso Framework existed long before Struts was a glint in Craig's eye. From: Peter A. Pilgrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ==== James Holmes wrote: +1 on this!! You hit the nail on the head. Many people (mostly managers) are reluctant to adopt Struts add-ons because they are not perceived as having the same tried and true stamp as the official Struts core. I think doing this would be a huge boon for Struts and would foster a lot of the development interest that's been talked about over the past couple of days. ==/== Would the same principle work with people who have taken Struts and integrated or embedded as another framework? Having spent some type integrating 1.1 into Expresso Framework in 2002, in our case can we be classified as Struts extenders? Also some repository will not want to become a sub project of Struts because of logical sense, politics or legal entity status? ==== Regards -- Peter Pilgrim __ _ _ _ / //__ // ___// ___/ + Serverside Java / /___/ // /__ / /__ + Struts / // ___// ___// ___/ + Expresso Committer __/ // /__ / /__ / /__ + Independent Contractor /___/////// + Intrinsic Motivation On Line Resume || \\=== `` http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/no-it-striker.html '' - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts TLP Sub-projects (RE: Making Struts Build Easier)
Quoting James Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED]: +1 on this!! Agreed. You hit the nail on the head. Many people (mostly managers) are reluctant to adopt Struts add-ons because they are not perceived as having the same tried and true stamp as the official Struts core. I think doing this would be a huge boon for Struts and would foster a lot of the development interest that's been talked about over the past couple of days. Also, +1 on having the creators of those projects become committers so long as they've shown a protracted history in maintaining their respective projects and have an interest to continue doing so. There's yet another reason that is important -- the ASF board wants to ensure that everything packaged in an ASF software distribution has either the Apache License or something less restrictive. Currently, we're fine because all we ship is ASF code. Bringing add-ons under the Struts TLP umbrella means that they'd automatically be Apache licensed as well. -James http://www.jamesholmes.com/struts/ Craig - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
