Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 116, Issue 3

[Aaron Heller]

One more detail... I had to create an Aggregate audio device to get it
working with Jack. I don't remember the details, but could refresh my
memory if anyone needs them.

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:59 PM, Aaron Heller <ajhel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a "Mid-2010" Mac Mini connected to a Sherwood Newcastle R-972 via
> HDMI. The "direct" input to the receiver shows up on the Mac Mini as an
> 8-channel audio output device. I'm not a MaxMSP user but it works fine with
> Plogue Bidule.  You set up the channel mappings with the Audio MIDI Setup
> program.
>
> Aaron Heller
> Menlo Park, CA  US
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 5:54 AM, Augustine Leudar <
> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Marc,
> > The processing involve dhere is not too CPU intensive - rather its
> whether
> > the graphics card is capable of transmitting 8 channels of audio over
> HDMI
> > that I am wondering about .
> > Marc - its a commercial project and we will be connected online to
> > update/make changes if necessary. As mentioned its possible to
> > automatically tell the max patch which drivers ot use etc. I totally
> agree
> > with you on "if it can go wrong it will" and it has to be rock solid -
> the
> > last permanent install we did the cleaners kept unpluggin it - - we'd get
> > the call "its not working !!) - wed drive two hours to ge tthere and
> switch
> > it back on. Lessons learnt. Linux would be my prefferedd choice for
> > stablitiy but it doesnt have the software tools to do what is needed in
> > this instance (Im a big fan of soundscape renderer on linux ) nor are
> those
> > involved in the project profficient in Linux. I have however found
> windows
> > 10 to be a complete pain in the ass for anything thats installed for more
> > than a couple of days. This will be for a year.
> > best
> > Gus
> >
> > On 8 March 2018 at 09:50, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Mac Minis are not that expensive, though whether they are adequate
> depends
> > > on how much audio processing is required.
> > >
> > > After set up you may not need a monitor, keyboard or mouse, though
> these
> > > are fairly cheap and readily available now. These are only required if
> > > something goes wrong, usually when an audio interface or other external
> > > unit is not powered up when the computer boots.They can be set up to
> boot
> > > and run a program automatically to specified times, or to run a program
> > > when booted.
> > >
> > > If it is a long term install, the cost of this part of the system
> becomes
> > > very low compared to other installation costs, and the daily
> management of
> > > the whole.
> > >
> > > Ciao,
> > >
> > > Dave Hunt
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8 Mar 2018, at 01:34, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?
> > > > Date: 7 March 2018 18:37:46 GMT
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes we got it working immediately on the Mac - one channel on
> > > speaker.bBut
> > > > obviously there's an extra cist involved for client if they have to
> buy a
> > > > Mac! Its a longterm install.
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, jim moses <jmo...@brown.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> The Mac HDMI out sounds like your best bet. You may need to work
> with
> > > the
> > > >> audio-midi-setup app to make it work (seeting the # of channels and
> then
> > > >> assignments in 'configure speakers').
> > > >>
> > > >> jim
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> > -- next part --
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> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
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Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 116, Issue 3

[Aaron Heller]

I have a "Mid-2010" Mac Mini connected to a Sherwood Newcastle R-972 via
HDMI. The "direct" input to the receiver shows up on the Mac Mini as an
8-channel audio output device. I'm not a MaxMSP user but it works fine with
Plogue Bidule.  You set up the channel mappings with the Audio MIDI Setup
program.

Aaron Heller
Menlo Park, CA  US

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 5:54 AM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Hi Marc,
> The processing involve dhere is not too CPU intensive - rather its whether
> the graphics card is capable of transmitting 8 channels of audio over HDMI
> that I am wondering about .
> Marc - its a commercial project and we will be connected online to
> update/make changes if necessary. As mentioned its possible to
> automatically tell the max patch which drivers ot use etc. I totally agree
> with you on "if it can go wrong it will" and it has to be rock solid - the
> last permanent install we did the cleaners kept unpluggin it - - we'd get
> the call "its not working !!) - wed drive two hours to ge tthere and
switch
> it back on. Lessons learnt. Linux would be my prefferedd choice for
> stablitiy but it doesnt have the software tools to do what is needed in
> this instance (Im a big fan of soundscape renderer on linux ) nor are
those
> involved in the project profficient in Linux. I have however found windows
> 10 to be a complete pain in the ass for anything thats installed for more
> than a couple of days. This will be for a year.
> best
> Gus
>
> On 8 March 2018 at 09:50, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Mac Minis are not that expensive, though whether they are adequate
depends
> > on how much audio processing is required.
> >
> > After set up you may not need a monitor, keyboard or mouse, though these
> > are fairly cheap and readily available now. These are only required if
> > something goes wrong, usually when an audio interface or other external
> > unit is not powered up when the computer boots.They can be set up to
boot
> > and run a program automatically to specified times, or to run a program
> > when booted.
> >
> > If it is a long term install, the cost of this part of the system
becomes
> > very low compared to other installation costs, and the daily management
of
> > the whole.
> >
> > Ciao,
> >
> > Dave Hunt
> >
> >
> > On 8 Mar 2018, at 01:34, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> >
> > > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?
> > > Date: 7 March 2018 18:37:46 GMT
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes we got it working immediately on the Mac - one channel on
> > speaker.bBut
> > > obviously there's an extra cist involved for client if they have to
buy a
> > > Mac! Its a longterm install.
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, jim moses <jmo...@brown.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The Mac HDMI out sounds like your best bet. You may need to work with
> > the
> > >> audio-midi-setup app to make it work (seeting the # of channels and
then
> > >> assignments in 'configure speakers').
> > >>
> > >> jim
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[Aaron Heller]

t be a
> > > > problem. By using their 720 Studio app, I can get a sort-of
> > > > surround signal out of it, although it appears to have no vertical
> > > > information. The skimpy on-line manual is pretty useless for Mac
> > > > users, so I wonder in anyone else has had better or more consistent
> > > > results?
> > > >
> > > > Bruce - I could send it to you for chamber analysis, if you’re
> > > > interested.
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > > ___
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
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> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[Aaron Heller]

A friend bought one, so I've been doing some reverse engineering.

In the 96kHz stereo file, the samples are interleaved

L: 1313131313
R: 2424242424

litepc2aformat reformats this to a 48kHz, 4-channel file

1: 1
2: 2
3: 3
4: 4

I also measured the impulse responses of Twirling720 Studio.app when
converting from 4-channel A-format to 4-channel B-format FuMa. It is just a
4x4 matrix, no coincidence correction or any other filters.  (view this in
a fixed-width font)

1 2 3 4
FRU   BRD   FLD   BLU
W   0.03540.03540.03540.0354
X   0.0107   -0.12200.1220   -0.0107
Y  -0.1220   -0.01070.01070.1220
Z   0.0866   -0.0866   -0.08660.0866


If you invert that matrix and convert the velocity components to polar,
they assume the mics are pointed at,

az
   -85.
  -175.
 5.
95.

el
35.2644
   -35.2644
   -35.2644
35.2644

so the whole mic array is rotated 40 degrees clockwise. The elevations are
correct for a tetrahedral array.

Also the euclidean length of the X, Y, Z components equals W*sqrt(2), so
the gains are for perfect cardioid capsules.

Looking at some sample recordings that were made well into the diffuse
field of a fairly reverberant hall, W looks about 3 dB too low, so I'm
guessing the capsules are more directional that cardioids, something
between a cardioid and supercardoid (which would make W 4.6 dB too low).

Without coincidence correction filters, the diffuse field response will be
wrong.

Aaron Heller (hel...@ai.sri.com)
Menlo Park, CA  US



On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Steven, and thanks for the useful info.
>
> The fact that the Twirling720 presents itself as a stereo 96Khz
> device and the possibility that the 4 channels are "encoded" in 2
> channels is very interesting, because it could potentially be used with
> any computer. I still don't use mine because the Android app is asking
> for too many permissions on my phone. I'm waiting for the official SDK,
> hoping I can program simple and safe custom apps. I also plan to build
> a mount because holding it only from its USB plug is very risky; a
> modified phone shell could be a good start.
>
> Le Thu, 8 Mar 2018 18:40:20 +
> Steven Boardman <boardroomout...@gmail.com> a écrit:
>
> > I have one too. Been using it successfully for a while with my android
> > phone.
> > It does seem to present itself to other audio apps as  2 channel 96khz
> > device.
> >  When using the apk it records either stereo, or 4 channel  A and B
> > format at 48khz. I think theres some  sort if matrixing going on.
> > I haven't done any vertical tests, but the horizontal works well for
> > the price.
> > It is also pretty easy to rotate the capsule spindle, so not sure how
> > accurate the positioning is. Mine is also not quite perpendicular!
> > The manual is useless.
> > They are quick to fix bugs, and implement suggestions thoigh. (the
> > A-Fornat one was mine.)
> > Its way better than a h2n in my opinion, and really easy to carry, as
> > i always have my phone anyway.
> > Because if this i use it a lot, as i carry it at all times.
> > I just have to make a mount for use with my Samsung gear 360.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > On 8 Mar 2018 16:05, "John Leonard Main" <j...@johnleonard.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Mine (pre-ordered for some small amount) arrived a couple of days
> > > ago and I’ve got it hooked up to my MacBook via a suitable USB
> > > adapter and an old Apple keyboard extension cable. At first, I
> > > couldn't get a sensible signal out of it, but then discovered that
> > > it needs to be connected via USB3, or it won’t work. Then I took a
> > > look at the capsule orientation, which, although it is indeed a
> > > tetrahedral array, seems to be skewed by 45º off centre, but as the
> > > output is encoded in some way into two channels, this may not be a
> > > problem. By using their 720 Studio app, I can get a sort-of
> > > surround signal out of it, although it appears to have no vertical
> > > information. The skimpy on-line manual is pretty useless for Mac
> > > users, so I wonder in anyone else has had better or more consistent
> > > results?
> > >
> > > Bruce - I could send it to you for chamber analysis, if you’re
> > > interested.
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > John
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - uns

Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[Gary Gallagher]

It does record the vertical information. Very compact Ambisonics recording
solution.

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 at 11:28 Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote:

> Hi Steven, and thanks for the useful info.
>
> The fact that the Twirling720 presents itself as a stereo 96Khz
> device and the possibility that the 4 channels are "encoded" in 2
> channels is very interesting, because it could potentially be used with
> any computer. I still don't use mine because the Android app is asking
> for too many permissions on my phone. I'm waiting for the official SDK,
> hoping I can program simple and safe custom apps. I also plan to build
> a mount because holding it only from its USB plug is very risky; a
> modified phone shell could be a good start.
>
> Le Thu, 8 Mar 2018 18:40:20 +
> Steven Boardman <boardroomout...@gmail.com> a écrit:
>
> > I have one too. Been using it successfully for a while with my android
> > phone.
> > It does seem to present itself to other audio apps as  2 channel 96khz
> > device.
> >  When using the apk it records either stereo, or 4 channel  A and B
> > format at 48khz. I think theres some  sort if matrixing going on.
> > I haven't done any vertical tests, but the horizontal works well for
> > the price.
> > It is also pretty easy to rotate the capsule spindle, so not sure how
> > accurate the positioning is. Mine is also not quite perpendicular!
> > The manual is useless.
> > They are quick to fix bugs, and implement suggestions thoigh. (the
> > A-Fornat one was mine.)
> > Its way better than a h2n in my opinion, and really easy to carry, as
> > i always have my phone anyway.
> > Because if this i use it a lot, as i carry it at all times.
> > I just have to make a mount for use with my Samsung gear 360.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > On 8 Mar 2018 16:05, "John Leonard Main" <j...@johnleonard.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Mine (pre-ordered for some small amount) arrived a couple of days
> > > ago and I’ve got it hooked up to my MacBook via a suitable USB
> > > adapter and an old Apple keyboard extension cable. At first, I
> > > couldn't get a sensible signal out of it, but then discovered that
> > > it needs to be connected via USB3, or it won’t work. Then I took a
> > > look at the capsule orientation, which, although it is indeed a
> > > tetrahedral array, seems to be skewed by 45º off centre, but as the
> > > output is encoded in some way into two channels, this may not be a
> > > problem. By using their 720 Studio app, I can get a sort-of
> > > surround signal out of it, although it appears to have no vertical
> > > information. The skimpy on-line manual is pretty useless for Mac
> > > users, so I wonder in anyone else has had better or more consistent
> > > results?
> > >
> > > Bruce - I could send it to you for chamber analysis, if you’re
> > > interested.
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > John
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
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> >
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> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> ___
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[Gerard Lardner]

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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[Gerard Lardner]

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Re: [Sursound] oktava 1st order mic

[Gerard Lardner]

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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[Gerard Lardner]

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Re: [Sursound] oktava 1st order mic

[Gerard Lardner]

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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[Marc Lavallée]

Hi Steven, and thanks for the useful info.

The fact that the Twirling720 presents itself as a stereo 96Khz
device and the possibility that the 4 channels are "encoded" in 2
channels is very interesting, because it could potentially be used with
any computer. I still don't use mine because the Android app is asking
for too many permissions on my phone. I'm waiting for the official SDK,
hoping I can program simple and safe custom apps. I also plan to build
a mount because holding it only from its USB plug is very risky; a
modified phone shell could be a good start.

Le Thu, 8 Mar 2018 18:40:20 +
Steven Boardman <boardroomout...@gmail.com> a écrit:

> I have one too. Been using it successfully for a while with my android
> phone.
> It does seem to present itself to other audio apps as  2 channel 96khz
> device.
>  When using the apk it records either stereo, or 4 channel  A and B
> format at 48khz. I think theres some  sort if matrixing going on.
> I haven't done any vertical tests, but the horizontal works well for
> the price.
> It is also pretty easy to rotate the capsule spindle, so not sure how
> accurate the positioning is. Mine is also not quite perpendicular!
> The manual is useless.
> They are quick to fix bugs, and implement suggestions thoigh. (the
> A-Fornat one was mine.)
> Its way better than a h2n in my opinion, and really easy to carry, as
> i always have my phone anyway.
> Because if this i use it a lot, as i carry it at all times.
> I just have to make a mount for use with my Samsung gear 360.
> 
> Best
> 
> Steve
> 
> On 8 Mar 2018 16:05, "John Leonard Main" <j...@johnleonard.uk> wrote:
> 
> > Mine (pre-ordered for some small amount) arrived a couple of days
> > ago and I’ve got it hooked up to my MacBook via a suitable USB
> > adapter and an old Apple keyboard extension cable. At first, I
> > couldn't get a sensible signal out of it, but then discovered that
> > it needs to be connected via USB3, or it won’t work. Then I took a
> > look at the capsule orientation, which, although it is indeed a
> > tetrahedral array, seems to be skewed by 45º off centre, but as the
> > output is encoded in some way into two channels, this may not be a
> > problem. By using their 720 Studio app, I can get a sort-of
> > surround signal out of it, although it appears to have no vertical
> > information. The skimpy on-line manual is pretty useless for Mac
> > users, so I wonder in anyone else has had better or more consistent
> > results?
> >
> > Bruce - I could send it to you for chamber analysis, if you’re
> > interested.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > John
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >  
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[Sursound] oktava 1st order mic

[Peter P.]

Hi list,

please excuse if this has already been discussed here before, the
archive didn't show much results for me.

What is the best way to encode the signal from the Oktava MK4012 1st
order microphone capsules into ambisonics? Did anyone measure the mic so
far or is a generic encoder the best way to do it for now? It seems that
Oktava is not providing any hardware/software encoders...

Thank you for any ideas!
Peter
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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[Steven Boardman]

I have one too. Been using it successfully for a while with my android
phone.
It does seem to present itself to other audio apps as  2 channel 96khz
device.
 When using the apk it records either stereo, or 4 channel  A and B format
at 48khz. I think theres some  sort if matrixing going on.
I haven't done any vertical tests, but the horizontal works well for the
price.
It is also pretty easy to rotate the capsule spindle, so not sure how
accurate the positioning is. Mine is also not quite perpendicular!
The manual is useless.
They are quick to fix bugs, and implement suggestions thoigh. (the
A-Fornat one was mine.)
Its way better than a h2n in my opinion, and really easy to carry, as i
always have my phone anyway.
Because if this i use it a lot, as i carry it at all times.
I just have to make a mount for use with my Samsung gear 360.

Best

Steve

On 8 Mar 2018 16:05, "John Leonard Main" <j...@johnleonard.uk> wrote:

> Mine (pre-ordered for some small amount) arrived a couple of days ago and
> I’ve got it hooked up to my MacBook via a suitable USB adapter and an old
> Apple keyboard extension cable. At first, I couldn't get a sensible signal
> out of it, but then discovered that it needs to be connected via USB3, or
> it won’t work. Then I took a look at the capsule orientation, which,
> although it is indeed a tetrahedral array, seems to be skewed by 45º off
> centre, but as the output is encoded in some way into two channels, this
> may not be a problem. By using their 720 Studio app, I can get a sort-of
> surround signal out of it, although it appears to have no vertical
> information. The skimpy on-line manual is pretty useless for Mac users, so
> I wonder in anyone else has had better or more consistent results?
>
> Bruce - I could send it to you for chamber analysis, if you’re interested.
>
> All the best,
>
> John
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
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Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?

[Courville, Daniel]

A 2012 Mac mini will work fine. The screenshots I posted two days ago are from 
a Mac mini with OS 10.12.6.

It's connected to Yamaha CX-A5100 and no tweaks were needed on the Yamaha for 
the Mac to see it or to enable eight LPCM channels via HDMI.

Some apps, like VLC, can either send the audio to the Yamaha as LPCM (VLC 
decodes the Dolby or DTS track) or as bitstream (the Yamaha will do the 
decoding).

I also used TwistedWave, Reaper and Pro Tools connected to the Yamaha via HDMI. 
That's in classroom/projection room. Very reliable.


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 12:53:45 +
From: Augustine Leudar 
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?

Any idea if a Mac min would do that too ?

On Thursday, 8 March 2018, Felix Andriessens  wrote:

>This might depend on your PCs graphic card, too. My 2012 MacBookPro
>supports at least eight via HDMI; my late 2011 iMac only two.


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Re: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[umashankar manthravadi]

I got mine today too. Did not like the capsule alignment; it is 45 degrees off. 
It is usb 3 mini connector so I have to find an adaptor. In the meantime, I 
plugged it into my windows phone and it detected the mic, but not as a four 
channel device. I have the twirling software, so if I get to plug it into my 
desktop might be able to do something with it.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




From: Sursound <sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu> on behalf of John Leonard Main 
<j...@johnleonard.uk>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:35:13 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

Mine (pre-ordered for some small amount) arrived a couple of days ago and I’ve 
got it hooked up to my MacBook via a suitable USB adapter and an old Apple 
keyboard extension cable. At first, I couldn't get a sensible signal out of it, 
but then discovered that it needs to be connected via USB3, or it won’t work. 
Then I took a look at the capsule orientation, which, although it is indeed a 
tetrahedral array, seems to be skewed by 45º off centre, but as the output is 
encoded in some way into two channels, this may not be a problem. By using 
their 720 Studio app, I can get a sort-of surround signal out of it, although 
it appears to have no vertical information. The skimpy on-line manual is pretty 
useless for Mac users, so I wonder in anyone else has had better or more 
consistent results?

Bruce - I could send it to you for chamber analysis, if you’re interested.

All the best,

John
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[Sursound] Twirling 720 Microphone

[John Leonard Main]

Mine (pre-ordered for some small amount) arrived a couple of days ago and I’ve 
got it hooked up to my MacBook via a suitable USB adapter and an old Apple 
keyboard extension cable. At first, I couldn't get a sensible signal out of it, 
but then discovered that it needs to be connected via USB3, or it won’t work. 
Then I took a look at the capsule orientation, which, although it is indeed a 
tetrahedral array, seems to be skewed by 45º off centre, but as the output is 
encoded in some way into two channels, this may not be a problem. By using 
their 720 Studio app, I can get a sort-of surround signal out of it, although 
it appears to have no vertical information. The skimpy on-line manual is pretty 
useless for Mac users, so I wonder in anyone else has had better or more 
consistent results? 

Bruce - I could send it to you for chamber analysis, if you’re interested.

All the best,

John
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Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?

[Augustine Leudar]

Brilliant Mick,
Thats what I was hoping to hear - thanks for your input !
best
Gus

On 8 March 2018 at 14:18, mick ritchie <m...@superorg.com> wrote:

> My macmini 2012 does 8 channels of hdmi with no problems - either out of
> HDMI port or with a converter on the display port out.
> Ive used it for 5.1 7.1 and some ambi outputting without problems.
>
> The av box i have is a pioneer lx82 and has to be set correct - direct pcm
> - i think mine has to be set before the mac will
> even recognise it.   My 2010 MBP will also do it and that has no
> thunderbolt on its display port which surprised me.
>
> Have it set up so that programs load and start on boot up or by timer and
> for backup - clone the whole drive to a usb drive
> that can be booted from if the mac has a dicky fit
>
> mick
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2018, at 12:53, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Any idea if a Mac min would do that too ?
> >
> > On Thursday, 8 March 2018, Felix Andriessens <fe...@andriessens.de>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> This might depend on your PCs graphic card, too. My 2012 MacBookPro
> >> supports at least eight via HDMI; my late 2011 iMac only two.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Felix Andriessens
> >>
>
> ___
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> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?

[mick ritchie]

My macmini 2012 does 8 channels of hdmi with no problems - either out of HDMI 
port or with a converter on the display port out.
Ive used it for 5.1 7.1 and some ambi outputting without problems.

The av box i have is a pioneer lx82 and has to be set correct - direct pcm - i 
think mine has to be set before the mac will
even recognise it.   My 2010 MBP will also do it and that has no thunderbolt on 
its display port which surprised me.

Have it set up so that programs load and start on boot up or by timer and for 
backup - clone the whole drive to a usb drive
that can be booted from if the mac has a dicky fit 

mick


On 8 Mar 2018, at 12:53, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> Any idea if a Mac min would do that too ?
> 
> On Thursday, 8 March 2018, Felix Andriessens  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> This might depend on your PCs graphic card, too. My 2012 MacBookPro
>> supports at least eight via HDMI; my late 2011 iMac only two.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Felix Andriessens
>> 

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Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 116, Issue 3

[Augustine Leudar]

Hi Marc,
The processing involve dhere is not too CPU intensive - rather its whether
the graphics card is capable of transmitting 8 channels of audio over HDMI
that I am wondering about .
Marc - its a commercial project and we will be connected online to
update/make changes if necessary. As mentioned its possible to
automatically tell the max patch which drivers ot use etc. I totally agree
with you on "if it can go wrong it will" and it has to be rock solid - the
last permanent install we did the cleaners kept unpluggin it - - we'd get
the call "its not working !!) - wed drive two hours to ge tthere and switch
it back on. Lessons learnt. Linux would be my prefferedd choice for
stablitiy but it doesnt have the software tools to do what is needed in
this instance (Im a big fan of soundscape renderer on linux ) nor are those
involved in the project profficient in Linux. I have however found windows
10 to be a complete pain in the ass for anything thats installed for more
than a couple of days. This will be for a year.
best
Gus

On 8 March 2018 at 09:50, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Mac Minis are not that expensive, though whether they are adequate depends
> on how much audio processing is required.
>
> After set up you may not need a monitor, keyboard or mouse, though these
> are fairly cheap and readily available now. These are only required if
> something goes wrong, usually when an audio interface or other external
> unit is not powered up when the computer boots.They can be set up to boot
> and run a program automatically to specified times, or to run a program
> when booted.
>
> If it is a long term install, the cost of this part of the system becomes
> very low compared to other installation costs, and the daily management of
> the whole.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Dave Hunt
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2018, at 01:34, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
>
> > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?
> > Date: 7 March 2018 18:37:46 GMT
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> >
> >
> > Yes we got it working immediately on the Mac - one channel on
> speaker.bBut
> > obviously there's an extra cist involved for client if they have to buy a
> > Mac! Its a longterm install.
> >
> > On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, jim moses <jmo...@brown.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> The Mac HDMI out sounds like your best bet. You may need to work with
> the
> >> audio-midi-setup app to make it work (seeting the # of channels and then
> >> assignments in 'configure speakers').
> >>
> >> jim
>
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-- 
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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[Sursound] (O.T.) Re: realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?

[Marc Lavallée]

Le Thu, 8 Mar 2018 09:50:49 +
Dave Hunt  a écrit:

> Hi,
> 
> Mac Minis are not that expensive, though whether they are adequate
> depends on how much audio processing is required.
> 
> After set up you may not need a monitor, keyboard or mouse, though
> these are fairly cheap and readily available now. These are only
> required if something goes wrong, usually when an audio interface or
> other external unit is not powered up when the computer boots.They
> can be set up to boot and run a program automatically to specified
> times, or to run a program when booted. 
> 
> If it is a long term install, the cost of this part of the system
> becomes very low compared to other installation costs, and the daily
> management of the whole.
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> Dave Hunt


Hi Dave.

I agree with you, but using mac minis (or any computer with any os) for
permanent installations requires a bit more care, because if something
can go wrong, it will go wrong. The software and hardware must be
monitored and restarted automatically if required (unless someone can
do it). I had to wrote a custom watchdog software for the mac, each OS
is a bit different, and nothing of that sort is available for the "art"
market. The computer could also be connected to the Internet for
(some) remote maintenance. So in the end using a mac or anything else
doesn't matter. What's really important is documentation for short-term
maintenance, mean-term update and long-term restauration, because
computers (and humans) will all fail at some point. In my experience,
using the MacOS is a recipe for quasi-disaster after 5 years. Windows
is (strangely enough) a bit more stable (10 years maybe). With Linux
it's a different game (but I'm not going to explain here).

--
Marc

> On 8 Mar 2018, at 01:34, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> 
> > From: Augustine Leudar 
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?
> > Date: 7 March 2018 18:37:46 GMT
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> > 
> > 
> > Yes we got it working immediately on the Mac - one channel on
> > speaker.bBut obviously there's an extra cist involved for client if
> > they have to buy a Mac! Its a longterm install.
> > 
> > On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, jim moses  wrote:
> >   
> >> The Mac HDMI out sounds like your best bet. You may need to work
> >> with the audio-midi-setup app to make it work (seeting the # of
> >> channels and then assignments in 'configure speakers').
> >> 
> >> jim  
> 
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?

[Augustine Leudar]

Any idea if a Mac min would do that too ?

On Thursday, 8 March 2018, Felix Andriessens <fe...@andriessens.de> wrote:

>
> This might depend on your PCs graphic card, too. My 2012 MacBookPro
> supports at least eight via HDMI; my late 2011 iMac only two.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Felix Andriessens
>
>
>
> >
> > Le 18-03-07 12:00, Sursound au nom de sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu a
> écrit :
> >
> >However when I pluged the PC in it only showed
> >up in stereo. Ive tried setting the "configuration" in the windows
> playback
> >devices section to 7.1 / 5.1 etc but it only seems to show up two
> channels
> >left and right in th ePC - any idea how to get around this ? My
> google fu
> >has proven weak on this one,
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?

[Felix Andriessens]

This might depend on your PCs graphic card, too. My 2012 MacBookPro supports at 
least eight via HDMI; my late 2011 iMac only two. 

Best regards,

Felix Andriessens



> 
> Le 18-03-07 12:00, Sursound au nom de sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu a écrit :
> 
>However when I pluged the PC in it only showed
>up in stereo. Ive tried setting the "configuration" in the windows playback
>devices section to 7.1 / 5.1 etc but it only seems to show up two channels
>left and right in th ePC - any idea how to get around this ? My google fu
>has proven weak on this one,
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] Ultrasonic speaker that emits 3D sound ?

[Augustine Leudar]

I've sent a message to them - it appears the speaker isn't commercially
available, I'll report back if I get hold of one..

On 8 March 2018 at 10:06, Charlie Richmond <charlie@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:24 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Charlie !
> > Im aware of course of directional loudspeakers that use ultrasonic
> beating
> > - but I understood this is able to position sounds in 3D space - without
> > physically having to point the speaker - if so that would be quite a cool
> > advance,
> >
>
> ​It would indeed and I'm extremely sceptical that it will work successfully
> but please let us know when you get a chance!
>
> Cheers,
> Charlie​
>
>
>
> > best
> > Gus
> >
> > On 7 March 2018 at 23:51, Charlie Richmond <charlie@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > These have been around for a long time and they do work but there is a
> > > sharp sweet spot and no bass at all of course...  and it's really only
> > > stereo for the one person they are focused on but if the 3d imaging of
> > the
> > > original source is reasonable then the one listener will definitely
> hear
> > > the 3d imaging that one can hear with two regular loudspeakers when
> they
> > > are precisely in the originally prescribed sweet spot.  Therefore, you
> > can
> > > say that they technically do what they say they can do but that is less
> > > than regular a good stereo speaker pair.  The main feature is that the
> > > ultrasonic beating that the two drivers do which produces the audible
> > sound
> > > at the crosspoint is only audible for the one listener exactly in the
> > > crosspoint and not audible to anyone else in the vicinity, which is a
> > good
> > > trick when it is desired.
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> > > augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Im desperately trying not to be skeptical because I really really
> want
> > > this
> > > > to be true - has anyone had a chance to test one out ?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.electronicbeats.net/the-feed/ultrasonic-
> > > > speaker-emits-3d-spatial-sound/
> > > >
> > > > ?
> > > > -- next part --
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > > > ___
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > * Charlie Richmond - http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com
> > > <http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/>
> > > * Viber: +16047159441 Skype, LinkedIn & Twitter: charlierichmond
> > > * facebook: charlie.richmond
> > > * facebook.com/pages/Richmond-Sound-Design-Ltd/130195960832
> > > <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Richmond-Sound-Design-Ltd/130195960832
> >
> > > * google.com/+CharlieRichmond google.com/+Richmondsounddesign
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> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -

Re: [Sursound] Ultrasonic speaker that emits 3D sound ?

[Charlie Richmond]

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:24 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Charlie !
> Im aware of course of directional loudspeakers that use ultrasonic beating
> - but I understood this is able to position sounds in 3D space - without
> physically having to point the speaker - if so that would be quite a cool
> advance,
>

​It would indeed and I'm extremely sceptical that it will work successfully
but please let us know when you get a chance!

Cheers,
Charlie​



> best
> Gus
>
> On 7 March 2018 at 23:51, Charlie Richmond <charlie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > These have been around for a long time and they do work but there is a
> > sharp sweet spot and no bass at all of course...  and it's really only
> > stereo for the one person they are focused on but if the 3d imaging of
> the
> > original source is reasonable then the one listener will definitely hear
> > the 3d imaging that one can hear with two regular loudspeakers when they
> > are precisely in the originally prescribed sweet spot.  Therefore, you
> can
> > say that they technically do what they say they can do but that is less
> > than regular a good stereo speaker pair.  The main feature is that the
> > ultrasonic beating that the two drivers do which produces the audible
> sound
> > at the crosspoint is only audible for the one listener exactly in the
> > crosspoint and not audible to anyone else in the vicinity, which is a
> good
> > trick when it is desired.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> > augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Im desperately trying not to be skeptical because I really really want
> > this
> > > to be true - has anyone had a chance to test one out ?
> > >
> > > http://www.electronicbeats.net/the-feed/ultrasonic-
> > > speaker-emits-3d-spatial-sound/
> > >
> > > ?
> > > -- next part --
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> Dr. Augustine Leudar
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Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 116, Issue 3

[Dave Hunt]

Hi,

Mac Minis are not that expensive, though whether they are adequate depends on 
how much audio processing is required.

After set up you may not need a monitor, keyboard or mouse, though these are 
fairly cheap and readily available now. These are only required if something 
goes wrong, usually when an audio interface or other external unit is not 
powered up when the computer boots.They can be set up to boot and run a program 
automatically to specified times, or to run a program when booted. 

If it is a long term install, the cost of this part of the system becomes very 
low compared to other installation costs, and the daily management of the whole.

Ciao,

Dave Hunt


On 8 Mar 2018, at 01:34, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:

> From: Augustine Leudar 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] realtime 5.1 streaming over hdmi ?
> Date: 7 March 2018 18:37:46 GMT
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> 
> 
> Yes we got it working immediately on the Mac - one channel on speaker.bBut
> obviously there's an extra cist involved for client if they have to buy a
> Mac! Its a longterm install.
> 
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, jim moses  wrote:
> 
>> The Mac HDMI out sounds like your best bet. You may need to work with the
>> audio-midi-setup app to make it work (seeting the # of channels and then
>> assignments in 'configure speakers').
>> 
>> jim

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