subject:"\[Sursound\] Multichannel players for permanent installations"

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-07-01 Thread Sampo Syreeni


On 2017-06-29, Dave Hunt wrote:

I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will 
require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.


In practice that is probably true, but in theory it needn't be. You see 
I've just been delving into some old time speaker design theory, and 
would like to flaunt... ;)


Quite a number of variants of Power over Ethernet exist. If we only take 
a look at the IEEE standardized variants, the minimum seems to be 
something like 13 Watts of continuous power, after cable dissipation, 
over the permitted cable length (cf. IEEE 802.3af-2003).


By modern standards that ain't a lot. You'd have to factor in amplifier 
losses, low sensitivity drivers and whathaveyou. It'd seem that an 
active speaker driven from such a power source would have to be pretty 
quiet. Probably it will be as well, using modern designs which tend to 
exchange power for sensitivity and small size.


However, if the only design margin you have to abide by is that 13W 
total expenditure of already more or less regulated DC coupled power, 
you can do much more. First, you put in two separately optimized class-D 
amps, with peak efficiency in excess of 90% at full power. The first one 
you use to drive a compression horn at MF/HF, at high voltage. The 
second one you optimize for (relatively) high currents to an LF dynamic 
woofer set of extremely wide area, again leading to high radiative 
resistance, and so high sensitivity.


Going that way, you could in theory mimic many classical studio monitor 
designs, from before the time when power was ample and to be wasted. 
Those things were sensitive enough to make your head spin by modern 
standards, simply because they had to be when driven by the time's 
vastly underpowered amplifiers; at one time you were supposed to make do 
with 10 Watts of electrical input power for 100 seats, and they did. 
Wasting half of it using class-A amps, who knows how much in linear 
power conversion and regulation, and even then not really going with the 
highest of sensitivity in the speakers.


Engineering for the limited power conveyed by PoE is or should be a 
return to the earlier times when available power was the relevant design 
margin. As such the design should take note of how the high general 
sensitivity of the time was derived. Borrow from the most successful 
designs of that time, instead of inventing the wheel all over again, 
square.


So, at least go with something like one of Klipsch's designs. The RF-7 
is reputed to go to a bit over 100dB SPL at one metre, using 1W of 
continuous power. There are also many other, wider band, more well 
behaved and sometimes even more sensitive speaker designs out there, 
from the days of yore. Things which were even considered suitable for 
studio monitoring use, yet which will make an auditorium full of people 
walk away at sustained 13 Watts.


The only slight nit with those thingies is their size. Typically, 
nowadays, you'd expect something fed off an Ethernet socket to be 
pocket-size. Extremely high sensitivity loudspeakers are anything but. 
They fill walls. In the high end they require compression driver driven 
horns which just can't be folded in any realistic way; the MF/HF unit 
will reach back at least tens of centimetres in its normal application. 
And then, despite the many attempts at folding a bass horn, that doesn't 
really work too well either; you'd rather go from the high efficiency of 
a horn loaded compression driver to a conventional cone of large 
diameter at the low end.


Or rather a set of them. Big honkin' ones, with coherent radiative area 
to spare. While it might seem counter-intuitive to use such big cones 
and so many of them, driven by such little power, actually what you're 
doing is exchanging extra efficiency in the *least* efficient part of 
the chain (radiative conversion) into something even *less* linearly 
manageable by current and even past standards (huge forces and wide 
throws in bass cones, so as to rapidly compress lots of air in another 
manner). After you tune your bass cones and their drive magnets somewhat 
lighter while increasing their area, as such increasing their resistive, 
radiative loading, suddenly you can drive unreal amounts of rather low 
frequency noise into the environment even at transistor radio like power 
outputs. (I'm only exaggerating a bit, here.) Certainly at the 13 watts 
minus the slim efficiency margin of current class D amps, delivered by a 
single standardized Ethernet wire carrying PoE (of many) to just one 
(well-tuned) driver (of many), could basically drive you deaf, blind and 
insane within a typical home.


...if the thing needed to do that wasn't so big in every way as to be 
unimplementable by modern standards. The best, most sensitive studio 
monitors I seem to recall seeing the specs for somewhere were, after 
all, a metre and a half on both sides, closer to a metre thick, and in 
addition flush

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-07-01 Thread Augustine Leudar

exactly Sampo - the Devil in the detail is why I am hoping someone will get
back to us who has used one. I asked on their forum if you could definately
set up a 24 channel interleaved (or 24 mono) files to play back to discrete
channels on a loop. He assured me it could - then a couple of posts later
suggested I download their UTool software just to make sure..

On 1 July 2017 at 08:02, Sampo Syreeni  wrote:

> On 2017-06-28, Marc Lavallée wrote:
>
> But a 24-channel RPI based solution would be much more difficult to
>> integrate and would still cost over $400, which is about the same price
>> than the uTrack24 [...]
>>
>
> I wasn't aware of that one before now. So I have to fold: you can't beat
> something like that if it does *half* what it's supposed to. Especially
> since they promise you can gang them upto four units at a time.
>
> I'd advise a modicum of caution, however. I mean, they never say you can
> beam all those channels off the thing in real time, they don't talk a whole
> lot about doing simultaneous A/D and D/A at the same time, and even the
> fact that you can only get the full 24 channels at a reduced sample rate of
> 48kHz (only 8 at the full 96kHz one) took a bit of digging. Their customer
> service, while well-meaning, also doesn't seem to be the most technically
> minded or most connected to the resident engineer. I couldn't get a clear
> synch guarantee for the hardware of the like we'd have to have for HOA
> and/or WFS work. So, there might yet be a devil or two in the details.
>
> But still, you are right. Both the price point and the specs of that thing
> are *insane*. If they do even *half* of what they claim, there's just no
> possible way you can beat it by building your own. Even a well-regulated
> power rail for your converters could eat up half of an amateur's budget.
> Jesus... :D
> --
> Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
> +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-07-01 Thread Sampo Syreeni


On 2017-06-28, Marc Lavallée wrote:

But a 24-channel RPI based solution would be much more difficult to 
integrate and would still cost over $400, which is about the same 
price than the uTrack24 [...]


I wasn't aware of that one before now. So I have to fold: you can't beat 
something like that if it does *half* what it's supposed to. Especially 
since they promise you can gang them upto four units at a time.


I'd advise a modicum of caution, however. I mean, they never say you can 
beam all those channels off the thing in real time, they don't talk a 
whole lot about doing simultaneous A/D and D/A at the same time, and 
even the fact that you can only get the full 24 channels at a reduced 
sample rate of 48kHz (only 8 at the full 96kHz one) took a bit of 
digging. Their customer service, while well-meaning, also doesn't seem 
to be the most technically minded or most connected to the resident 
engineer. I couldn't get a clear synch guarantee for the hardware of the 
like we'd have to have for HOA and/or WFS work. So, there might yet be a 
devil or two in the details.


But still, you are right. Both the price point and the specs of that 
thing are *insane*. If they do even *half* of what they claim, there's 
just no possible way you can beat it by building your own. Even a 
well-regulated power rail for your converters could eat up half of an 
amateur's budget. Jesus... :D

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-07-01 Thread Dave Malham

Rats can be a nuisance as well ;-)

The organisation behind it was TBA21, which (I believe) provided the core
funding but with as much outside funding as they could gather. For
Istanbul,
https://www.wallpaper.com/architecture/the-morning-line-sonic-temple-istanbul
says it was

"sponsored by Francesca von Habsburg, international patron of the arts,
heir to the Thyssen Bornemisza Collection and founder of TBA 21
contemporary arts foundation, along with Turkey's Vehbi Koç Foundation."

which as far as I remember, is correct, though the same page does give
Chris Wilson as a Cabaret Voltaire founder which should be Chris Watson, of
course.

Dave


On 30 June 2017 at 17:24, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> its not the heat Dave - its the humidity (100 percent) that destroys
> speakers , that and the ants . Who funded that ?
>
> On 30 June 2017 at 13:23, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Well, they spent a year outside in Seville (not known for being cold),
> then
> > it was moved to Eminönü Square, Istanbul where it spent another long
> period
> > in hot (and salty) air, then it moved to Vienna, which is quite cold (!)
> at
> > times - now it's in Karlsruhe. The speakers seemed to do okay so I would
> be
> > more than happy to specify them again. But I know what you mean about "it
> > would have to be a well funded project" - fortunately it was, I think
> > moving it from site to site alone cost €250,000 a pop. Fun to do but I'm
> > glad I didn't have to worry about the finances :-)
> >
> >Dave
> >
> > On 29 June 2017 at 18:54, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > They look nice Dave - it would have to be a well funded project to
> afford
> > > them though. I also wonder whether they could survie the sauna test for
> > > years. humidity and heat being the main problems.
> > >
> > > On 29 June 2017 at 18:30, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you don't mind using analog audio, Meyer do some very nice,
> > waterproof
> > > > powered speakers (MM-4XP). They use a specially designed cable which
> > > > carries balanced audio and DC power. The connector is a bit fiddly to
> > > wire
> > > > up and they are not cheap but we got very good results from them in
> the
> > > > Morning Line project (
> > > > https://www.wallpaper.com/architecture/the-morning-line-
> > > > sonic-temple-istanbul
> > > > )
> > > >
> > > >Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 29 June 2017 at 17:48, Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to:
> > > > > https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_
> > > > > par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet
> > > > > A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a
> D-amp.
> > > > > With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough
> > > > > for a small public installation.
> > > > >
> > > > > A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable
> > > > > for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2
> > other
> > > > > pairs to transmit power (as much as required).
> > > > >
> > > > > Running speaker wires is also a valid solution...
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Marc
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is
> > limited
> > > > > > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for
> > much
> > > > > > amplification.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Michael Graves
> > > > > >  mgra...@mstvp.com
> > > > > > http://www.mgraves.org
> > > > > > o(713) 861-4005
> > > > > >  c(713) 201-1262
> > > > > >  sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
> > > > > >  skype mjgraves
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Original Message ----- Subject: Re: [Sursound]
> > > > > > Multichannel players for

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Augustine Leudar

No Stefan - they work fine.

On 1 July 2017 at 02:59, Stefan Schreiber  wrote:

> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
> Nice paper - I think the reason people prefer loudspeakers to headphone sin
>> this case is to do with the HRTFs - over speakers people get to use their
>> own personal HRTFs (discounting phanotm sources) whereas this isnt quite
>> figured out yet for headphones,
>>
>>
>>
> I thought the same. But why should you "discount phantom sources"? Do you
> pretend VBAP and DBAP don't work?
>
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Stefan Schreiber


Augustine Leudar wrote:


Nice paper - I think the reason people prefer loudspeakers to headphone sin
this case is to do with the HRTFs - over speakers people get to use their
own personal HRTFs (discounting phanotm sources) whereas this isnt quite
figured out yet for headphones,

 

I thought the same. But why should you "discount phantom sources"? Do 
you pretend VBAP and DBAP don't work?



Stefan








___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Stefan Schreiber

 The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the
   


speakers.
   


So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels
   


with
   


movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ‘bed
   


channels’)
   


or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio
   


style),
   


where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.

Richard.

   


On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:

That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will
 


go
   


into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
   


The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
 


link
   


together switches for larger port numbers.
   




 


On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
   


augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
   


Hi Richard -
So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
   


out of
   


the mac ?

On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za


r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote:
   


Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:

 


can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have
   


to
   


run
   


a seperate ethernet cable to each one?

You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one.
 


So
   


for
   


example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to
 


the
   


outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and
 


each
   


speaker would listen to one of the outputs.

You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
 


audio
   


Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up
 


to
   


120
   


speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
 


passive
   


speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.

Here is a bit more info:

http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <
 


http://www
   


<
   


http://www/>.
   


technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
 


http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
   


integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>

Richard.



 


On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
   


augustineleu...@gmail.com>
   


wrote:
 


aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill
   


stick
   


to
   


passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
   


for
   


larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them
   


as
   


well
   


as audio.
These look like they might be OK for some stuff :

https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p

but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
   


chain
   


them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
   


ethernet
   


cable to each one  ?

On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com
   


wrote:
 


Hi,

I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
 


will
   


require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
 


Perhaps
 


for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
 


anything
   


decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.

The available current may power the DAC though.

Ciao,

Dave

From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
 


Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
   


installations
 


Hi Richard -
There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
   


soundscape is
 


designed in pre production for this installation and then its
   


just a
   


multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
   


do
   


are
   


interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
   


around
   


the
 


space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
   


might
   


be
 


g

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread David Pickett


At 14:23 30/06/2017, Dave Malham wrote:

>then it moved to Vienna, which is quite cold (!) at times

Last week it was 34 C here!

David

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Dave Malham

Well, they spent a year outside in Seville (not known for being cold), then
it was moved to Eminönü Square, Istanbul where it spent another long period
in hot (and salty) air, then it moved to Vienna, which is quite cold (!) at
times - now it's in Karlsruhe. The speakers seemed to do okay so I would be
more than happy to specify them again. But I know what you mean about "it
would have to be a well funded project" - fortunately it was, I think
moving it from site to site alone cost €250,000 a pop. Fun to do but I'm
glad I didn't have to worry about the finances :-)

   Dave

On 29 June 2017 at 18:54, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> They look nice Dave - it would have to be a well funded project to afford
> them though. I also wonder whether they could survie the sauna test for
> years. humidity and heat being the main problems.
>
> On 29 June 2017 at 18:30, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > If you don't mind using analog audio, Meyer do some very nice, waterproof
> > powered speakers (MM-4XP). They use a specially designed cable which
> > carries balanced audio and DC power. The connector is a bit fiddly to
> wire
> > up and they are not cheap but we got very good results from them in the
> > Morning Line project (
> > https://www.wallpaper.com/architecture/the-morning-line-
> > sonic-temple-istanbul
> > )
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >
> > On 29 June 2017 at 17:48, Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to:
> > > https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_
> > > par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet
> > > A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp.
> > > With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough
> > > for a small public installation.
> > >
> > > A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable
> > > for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other
> > > pairs to transmit power (as much as required).
> > >
> > > Running speaker wires is also a valid solution...
> > >
> > > --
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited
> > > > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much
> > > > amplification.
> > > >
> > > >  Michael Graves
> > > >  mgra...@mstvp.com
> > > > http://www.mgraves.org
> > > > o(713) 861-4005
> > > >  c(713) 201-1262
> > > >  sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
> > > >  skype mjgraves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound]
> > > > Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt"
> > > > <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am
> > > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >  I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
> > > >  will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet
> > > >  cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital
> > > >  amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries)
> > > >  to the speaker.
> > > >
> > > >  The available current may power the DAC though.
> > > >
> > > >  Ciao,
> > > >
> > > >  Dave
> > > >
> > > >  > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > > >  > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
> > > >  > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> > > >  > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
> > > >  > installations
> > > >  >
> > > >  >
> > > >  > Hi Richard -
> > > >  > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
> > > >  > soundscape is
> > > >  > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just
> > > >  > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
> > > >  > do are
> > > >  > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
> > > >  > aro

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Richard Foss

here is a sound etc etc - you also have a
>>>> map
>>>>> of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive
>>>> seen a
>>>>> lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already
>>>> pretty
>>>>> happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I
>>>>> couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with
>> the
>>>>> AVB system.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 22:28, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real
>>>>>> time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space,
>>>> using a
>>>>>> client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and
>> the
>>>>>> client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you
>>>> type
>>>>>> in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a
>>>>>> representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the
>>>>>> movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the
>>>> speakers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels
>> with
>>>>>> movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ‘bed
>>>> channels’)
>>>>>> or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio
>>>> style),
>>>>>> where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Richard.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will
>> go
>>>>>> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
>>>> link
>>>>>> together switches for larger port numbers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>>>>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Richard -
>>>>>>>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
>>>>>> out of
>>>>>>>> the mac ?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za >>>>> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have
>> to
>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one.
>> So
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to
>> the
>>>>>>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and
>> each
>>>>>>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up
>> to
>>>>>> 120
>>>>>>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
>>>>>> passive
>>>>>>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Here is a bit more info:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
>>>>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <
>> http://www
>>>> <
>>>>>>

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Augustine Leudar

 Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za > >> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have
>> to
>> >> run
>> >>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one.
>> So
>> >> for
>> >>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the
>> >>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
>> >>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
>> >> audio
>> >>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to
>> >> 120
>> >>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
>> >> passive
>> >>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Here is a bit more info:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
>> >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <
>> http://www <
>> >> http://www/>.
>> >>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
>> >> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
>> >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Richard.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>> >> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill
>> stick to
>> >>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
>> for
>> >>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them
>> as
>> >> well
>> >>>>>> as audio.
>> >>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
>> >> chain
>> >>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
>> >> ethernet
>> >>>>>> cable to each one  ?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
>> >> will
>> >>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
>> >>>>> Perhaps
>> >>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
>> >> anything
>> >>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Ciao,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Dave
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
>> >>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
>> >>>>> installations
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hi Richard -
>> >>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the r

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Augustine Leudar

channels around in the speaker space,
> >> using a
> >>>> client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and
> the
> >>>> client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you
> >> type
> >>>> in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a
> >>>> representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the
> >>>> movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the
> >> speakers.
> >>>>
> >>>> So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels
> with
> >>>> movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ‘bed
> >> channels’)
> >>>> or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio
> >> style),
> >>>> where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.
> >>>>
> >>>> Richard.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will
> go
> >>>> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
> >> link
> >>>> together switches for larger port numbers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> >>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Richard -
> >>>>>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
> >>>> out of
> >>>>>> the mac ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za  >>>> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have
> to
> >>>> run
> >>>>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one.
> So
> >>>> for
> >>>>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to
> the
> >>>>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and
> each
> >>>>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
> >>>> audio
> >>>>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up
> to
> >>>> 120
> >>>>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
> >>>> passive
> >>>>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Here is a bit more info:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
> >>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <
> http://www
> >> <
> >>>> http://www/>.
> >>>>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
> >>>> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
> >>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Richard.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> >>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill
> stick
> >> to
> >>>>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
> >> for
> >>>>>>>> larger site specific stuff because

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Richard Foss

ds is recorded.
>>>> 
>>>> Richard.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will go
>>>> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
>>>>> 
>>>>> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
>> link
>>>> together switches for larger port numbers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Richard -
>>>>>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
>>>> out of
>>>>>> the mac ?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za >>> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to
>>>> run
>>>>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So
>>>> for
>>>>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the
>>>>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
>>>>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
>>>> audio
>>>>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to
>>>> 120
>>>>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
>>>> passive
>>>>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here is a bit more info:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
>>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www
>> <
>>>> http://www/>.
>>>>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
>>>> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
>>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Richard.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick
>> to
>>>>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
>> for
>>>>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as
>>>> well
>>>>>>>> as audio.
>>>>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
>>>> chain
>>>>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
>>>> ethernet
>>>>>>>> cable to each one  ?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to th

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Augustine Leudar

gt;>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
> >>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
> >> audio
> >>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to
> >> 120
> >>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
> >> passive
> >>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here is a bit more info:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
> >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www
> <
> >> http://www/>.
> >>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
> >> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
> >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Richard.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> >> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick
> to
> >>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
> for
> >>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as
> >> well
> >>>>>> as audio.
> >>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
> >> chain
> >>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
> >> ethernet
> >>>>>> cable to each one  ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
> >> will
> >>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
> >>>>> Perhaps
> >>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
> >> anything
> >>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ciao,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dave
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
> >>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
> >>>>> installations
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Richard -
> >>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
> >>>>> soundscape is
> >>>>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its
> just a
> >>>>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
> do
> >> are
> >>>>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
> >> around
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
> >> might
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
> the
> >> way
> >>>>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -- next part --
> >>>>>

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Augustine Leudar

 tracks to the
> >>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
> >>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
> >> audio
> >>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to
> >> 120
> >>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
> >> passive
> >>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here is a bit more info:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
> >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www
> <
> >> http://www/>.
> >>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
> >> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
> >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Richard.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> >> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick
> to
> >>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
> for
> >>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as
> >> well
> >>>>>> as audio.
> >>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
> >> chain
> >>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
> >> ethernet
> >>>>>> cable to each one  ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
> >> will
> >>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
> >>>>> Perhaps
> >>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
> >> anything
> >>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ciao,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dave
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
> >>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
> >>>>> installations
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Richard -
> >>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
> >>>>> soundscape is
> >>>>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its
> just a
> >>>>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
> do
> >> are
> >>>>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
> >> around
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
> >> might
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
> the
> >> way
> >>>>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -- next part -

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-30 Thread Richard Foss

<http://www <
>> http://www/>.
>>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
>> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Richard.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to
>>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for
>>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as
>> well
>>>>>> as audio.
>>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
>> chain
>>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
>> ethernet
>>>>>> cable to each one  ?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
>> will
>>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
>> anything
>>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
>>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
>>>>> installations
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Richard -
>>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
>>>>> soundscape is
>>>>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a
>>>>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do
>> are
>>>>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
>> around
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
>> might
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the
>> way
>>>>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- next part --
>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme
>>>>>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list
>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>> here,
>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Augustine Leudar
>>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
>>>>>> Company Number : NI635217
>>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
>>>>>> Belfast BT88LL
>>>>>> -- next part --
>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
>>>>> attachments/20170629/5

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Augustine Leudar

Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this system
in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I do
that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your
hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a map
of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive seen a
lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already pretty
happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I
couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with the
AVB system.

On 29 June 2017 at 22:28, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:

> One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real
> time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space, using a
> client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and the
> client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you type
> in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a
> representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the
> movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the speakers.
>
> So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels with
> movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ‘bed channels’)
> or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio style),
> where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.
>
> Richard.
>
> > On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:
> >
> > That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will go
> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
> >
> > The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can link
> together switches for larger port numbers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Richard -
> >> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
> out of
> >> the mac ?
> >>
> >> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za  r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:
> >>>
> >>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to
> run
> >>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
> >>>
> >>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So
> for
> >>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the
> >>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
> >>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
> >>>
> >>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
> audio
> >>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to
> 120
> >>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
> passive
> >>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
> >>>
> >>> Here is a bit more info:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
> >>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www <
> http://www/>.
> >>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
> >>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
> >>>
> >>> Richard.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to
> >>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for
> >>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as
> well
> >>>> as audio.
> >>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
> >>>>
> >>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
> chain
> >>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
> ethernet
> >>>> cable to each one  ?
> >>>>
> >>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Richard Foss

One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real time - 
you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space, using a 
client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and the client 
on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you type in a URL. 
You successively select tracks and move them around a representation of your 
speaker space. You can record and play back the movements. The movements are 
realized via mixer matrices in the speakers.

So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels with 
movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ‘bed channels’) or 
channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio style), where 
metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.

Richard.

> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:
> 
> That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will go into 
> an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
> 
> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can link 
> together switches for larger port numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Richard -
>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet out of
>> the mac ?
>> 
>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za 
>> <mailto:r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:
>>> 
>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run
>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
>>> 
>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So for
>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the
>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
>>> 
>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus audio
>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to 120
>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate passive
>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
>>> 
>>> Here is a bit more info:
>>> 
>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www 
>>> <http://www/>.
>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- 
>>> <http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
>>> 
>>> Richard.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to
>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for
>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as well
>>>> as audio.
>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
>>>> 
>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy chain
>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate ethernet
>>>> cable to each one  ?
>>>> 
>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will
>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
>>> Perhaps
>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but anything
>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
>>> installations
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>&

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Richard Foss

That’s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will go into an 
Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).

The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can link 
together switches for larger port numbers.




> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Richard -
> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet out of
> the mac ?
> 
> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za 
> <mailto:r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:
>> 
>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run
>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
>> 
>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So for
>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the
>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
>> 
>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus audio
>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to 120
>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate passive
>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
>> 
>> Here is a bit more info:
>> 
>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www 
>> <http://www/>.
>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- 
>> <http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
>> 
>> Richard.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to
>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for
>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as well
>>> as audio.
>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
>>> 
>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
>>> 
>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy chain
>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate ethernet
>>> cable to each one  ?
>>> 
>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will
>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
>> Perhaps
>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but anything
>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
>>>> 
>>>> The available current may power the DAC though.
>>>> 
>>>> Ciao,
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
>> installations
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Richard -
>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
>> soundscape is
>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a
>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do are
>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime around
>> the
>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing might
>> be
>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the way
>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- next part --
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme
>>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>>>> Sursound mailing list
>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>>>> https://mail.music.vt.e

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Augustine Leudar

Hi Richard -
So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet out of
the mac ?

On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote:

> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps:
>
> > can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run
> a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
>
> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So for
> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the
> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
> speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
>
> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus audio
> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to 120
> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate passive
> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
>
> Here is a bit more info:
>
> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www.
> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
>
> Richard.
>
>
>
> > On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to
> > passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for
> > larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as well
> > as audio.
> > These look like they might be OK for some stuff :
> >
> > https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
> >
> > but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy chain
> > them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate ethernet
> > cable to each one  ?
> >
> > On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will
> >> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
> Perhaps
> >> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but anything
> >> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
> >>
> >> The available current may power the DAC though.
> >>
> >> Ciao,
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
> >>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
> installations
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Richard -
> >>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
> soundscape is
> >>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a
> >>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do are
> >>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime around
> the
> >>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing might
> be
> >>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the way
> >>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.
> >>>
> >>
> >> -- next part --
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme
> >> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> >> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html>
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attach

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Augustine Leudar

They look nice Dave - it would have to be a well funded project to afford
them though. I also wonder whether they could survie the sauna test for
years. humidity and heat being the main problems.

On 29 June 2017 at 18:30, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote:

> If you don't mind using analog audio, Meyer do some very nice, waterproof
> powered speakers (MM-4XP). They use a specially designed cable which
> carries balanced audio and DC power. The connector is a bit fiddly to wire
> up and they are not cheap but we got very good results from them in the
> Morning Line project (
> https://www.wallpaper.com/architecture/the-morning-line-
> sonic-temple-istanbul
> )
>
>Dave
>
>
> On 29 June 2017 at 17:48, Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to:
> > https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_
> > par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet
> > A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp.
> > With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough
> > for a small public installation.
> >
> > A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable
> > for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other
> > pairs to transmit power (as much as required).
> >
> > Running speaker wires is also a valid solution...
> >
> > --
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited
> > > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much
> > > amplification.
> > >
> > >  Michael Graves
> > >  mgra...@mstvp.com
> > > http://www.mgraves.org
> > > o(713) 861-4005
> > >  c(713) 201-1262
> > >  sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
> > >  skype mjgraves
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound]
> > > Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt"
> > > <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am
> > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >  I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
> > >  will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet
> > >  cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital
> > >  amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries)
> > >  to the speaker.
> > >
> > >  The available current may power the DAC though.
> > >
> > >  Ciao,
> > >
> > >  Dave
> > >
> > >  > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > >  > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
> > >  > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> > >  > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
> > >  > installations
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > Hi Richard -
> > >  > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
> > >  > soundscape is
> > >  > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just
> > >  > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
> > >  > do are
> > >  > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
> > >  > around the
> > >  > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
> > >  > might be
> > >  > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
> > >  > the way
> > >  > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet
> > >  > cable.
> > >
> > >  -- next part --
> > >  An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > >  URL:
> > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > attachments/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
> > > ___ Sursound mailing list
> > >  Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > >  https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was
> > > scrubbed... URL:
> > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > attachments/20170629/3bffefc0/attachment.html>
>

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Dave Malham

If you don't mind using analog audio, Meyer do some very nice, waterproof
powered speakers (MM-4XP). They use a specially designed cable which
carries balanced audio and DC power. The connector is a bit fiddly to wire
up and they are not cheap but we got very good results from them in the
Morning Line project (
https://www.wallpaper.com/architecture/the-morning-line-sonic-temple-istanbul
)

   Dave


On 29 June 2017 at 17:48, Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote:

>
> The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to:
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_
> par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet
> A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp.
> With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough
> for a small public installation.
>
> A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable
> for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other
> pairs to transmit power (as much as required).
>
> Running speaker wires is also a valid solution...
>
> --
> Marc
>
>
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited
> > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much
> > amplification.
> >
> >  Michael Graves
> >  mgra...@mstvp.com
> > http://www.mgraves.org
> > o(713) 861-4005
> >  c(713) 201-1262
> >  sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
> >  skype mjgraves
> >
> >
> > - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound]
> > Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt"
> > <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am
> > To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >  I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
> >  will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet
> >  cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital
> >  amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries)
> >  to the speaker.
> >
> >  The available current may power the DAC though.
> >
> >  Ciao,
> >
> >  Dave
> >
> >  > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >  > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
> >  > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> >  > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
> >  > installations
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Hi Richard -
> >  > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
> >  > soundscape is
> >  > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just
> >  > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
> >  > do are
> >  > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
> >  > around the
> >  > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
> >  > might be
> >  > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
> >  > the way
> >  > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet
> >  > cable.
> >
> >  -- next part --
> >  An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >  URL:
> > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
> > ___ Sursound mailing list
> >  Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >  https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was
> > scrubbed... URL:
> > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20170629/3bffefc0/attachment.html>
> > ___ Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/9313e37c/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread mgraves

Actually, 802.11at Type 2 supports up to 25w, but requires more effort to 
source power. That is, newer more costly, switches or insertors.
 
The hack you describe isn't really so hack-ish, since there are a number of 
non-802.11 compliant approaches to POE. Including one that's capable of 
delivering up to 90 watts.
 
Here's a unique approach called Digital Electricity. https://voltserver.com/ 
They provide high-power and data over a simple 2-conductor pair. They claim 20x 
the power and distance of 802.11af solutions.
 
Cost is another matter.

 Michael Graves
 mgra...@mstvp.com
http://www.mgraves.org
o(713) 861-4005
 c(713) 201-1262
 sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
 skype mjgraves

 
 
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel 
players for permanent installations
From: "Marc Lavalle" <m...@hacklava.net>
Date: 6/29/17 11:48 am
To: sursound@music.vt.edu


 The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to:
 
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet
 A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp. 
 With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough
 for a small public installation.
 
 A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable
 for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other
 pairs to transmit power (as much as required).
 
 Running speaker wires is also a valid solution...
 
 --
 Marc
 
 
 On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
 
 > Hi,
 > 
 > This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited
 > to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much
 > amplification. 
 > 
 > Michael Graves
 > mgra...@mstvp.com
 > http://www.mgraves.org
 > o(713) 861-4005
 > c(713) 201-1262
 > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
 > skype mjgraves
 > 
 > 
 > - Original Message ----- Subject: Re: [Sursound]
 > Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt"
 > <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am
 > To: sursound@music.vt.edu
 > 
 > Hi,
 > 
 > I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input 
 > will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet 
 > cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital 
 > amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries) 
 > to the speaker.
 > 
 > The available current may power the DAC though.
 > 
 > Ciao,
 > 
 > Dave
 > 
 > > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
 > > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
 > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
 > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent 
 > > installations
 > >
 > >
 > > Hi Richard -
 > > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the 
 > > soundscape is
 > > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just
 > > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
 > > do are
 > > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime 
 > > around the
 > > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing 
 > > might be
 > > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
 > > the way
 > > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet
 > > cable. 
 > 
 > -- next part --
 > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
 > URL:
 > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
 > ___ Sursound mailing list
 > Sursound@music.vt.edu
 > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
 > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
 > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was
 > scrubbed... URL:
 > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/3bffefc0/attachment.html>
 > ___ Sursound mailing list
 > Sursound@music.vt.edu
 > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
 > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
 
 ___
 Sursound mailing list
 Sursound@music.vt.edu
 https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/0f09417f/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Marc Lavallée


The limit is actually more like 13W per device, according to:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_%C3%A9lectrique_par_c%C3%A2ble_Ethernet
A Raspberry Pi and a DAC would use 5 to 6W, leaving 7-8W to a D-amp. 
With efficient loudspeakers (and a few of them), 6W could enough
for a small public installation.

A hackish alternative would be to use only 2 pairs of a CAT5 cable
for a 100BT link (which is enough to stream audio), and use the 2 other
pairs to transmit power (as much as required).

Running speaker wires is also a valid solution...

--
Marc


On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:10:12 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> This is an interesting discussion. Common, 802.3af P.O.E. is limited
> to 15w. Fine for a Raspberry Pi, DAC or DSP, but not enough for much
> amplification. 
> 
>  Michael Graves
>  mgra...@mstvp.com
> http://www.mgraves.org
> o(713) 861-4005
>  c(713) 201-1262
>  sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com
>  skype mjgraves
> 
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: [Sursound]
> Multichannel players for permanent installations From: "Dave Hunt"
> <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> Date: 6/29/17 11:04 am
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> 
> Hi,
>  
>  I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input 
>  will require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet 
>  cable. Perhaps for very small speakers with a low power digital 
>  amplifier, but anything decent would require mains (or DC batteries) 
>  to the speaker.
>  
>  The available current may power the DAC though.
>  
>  Ciao,
>  
>  Dave
>  
>  > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>  > Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
>  > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
>  > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent 
>  > installations
>  >
>  >
>  > Hi Richard -
>  > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the 
>  > soundscape is
>  > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just
>  > a multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
>  > do are
>  > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime 
>  > around the
>  > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing 
>  > might be
>  > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
>  > the way
>  > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet
>  > cable.  
>  
>  -- next part --
>  An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>  URL:
> <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
> ___ Sursound mailing list
>  Sursound@music.vt.edu
>  https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> -- next part -- An HTML attachment was
> scrubbed... URL:
> <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/3bffefc0/attachment.html>
> ___ Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Augustine Leudar

aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick to
passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain for
larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to  them as well
as audio.
These look like they might be OK for some stuff :

https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p

but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy chain
them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate ethernet
cable to each one  ?

On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input will
> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. Perhaps
> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but anything
> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
>
> The available current may power the DAC though.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Dave
>
> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations
>>
>>
>> Hi Richard -
>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the soundscape is
>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a
>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do are
>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime around the
>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing might be
>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the way
>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.
>>
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme
> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-29 Thread Guillaume Le Nost

Yes the Biamp Tesira Amp 8175r has 8 analogue inputs as well as 8 avb
inputs.
It has 8 analogue speaker outputs
cf. back of the device picture:
https://www.biamp.com/images/default-source/hero/products/tesira/tesira_amp8150r_back.jpg



2017-06-29 12:24 GMT+01:00 Augustine Leudar :

> Guillaume -Im assuming this has analogue as well as digital outputs for
> each channel (I looked but couldnt find the specs)
>
> On 28 June 2017 at 22:17, Guillaume Le Nost 
> wrote:
>
> > Here is a link to a 8x 175w avb amplifier:
> > https://www.biamp.com/tesira-amp-8175r
> >
> > Guillaume
> >
> > > On 28 Jun 2017, at 22:06, Augustine Leudar 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Richard -
> > > There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the soundscape
> > is
> > > designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a
> > > multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do are
> > > interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime around
> the
> > > space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing might
> be
> > > good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the way
> > > power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.
> > >
> > >> On 28 June 2017 at 21:16, Richard Foss  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Augustine, this sounds like an interesting application. I was
> > recently
> > >> at the Buddhist rhythm garden in Hong Kong and experienced a
> > multi-speaker
> > >> system within the garden - it was very effective. The UTrack24 looks
> > great,
> > >> and affordable. Do you control the internal DSP mixer to have sounds
> > moving
> > >> across speakers or would this be pre-mixed into the channels you
> send? I
> > >> have been using mixer matrices within the N-DAC8s and SPK-4Ps to
> provide
> > >> immersive effects. The nice thing here is that you have a standard
> > protocol
> > >> to enable this. To use the N-DAC8s for your application you would
> indeed
> > >> need to have 3 x N-DAC8s ($900) and a computer.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On 2017-06-28 09:11 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Richard and Guillaume,
> > >>> Interesting stuff. Two things to note - the installation is in a
> > tropical
> > >>> botanic garden so I am using a certain type of speaker that is pretty
> > >>> resilient (used in saunas etc) whci is passive (for obvious reasons)
> > and
> > >>> connected by speaker cable . The AVB amps sound interesting - any
> > links to
> > >>> the highest channel count ones ?  I am not quite sure what advantage
> 4
> > *
> > >>> N-DAC8
> > >>> ($1200) + computer ($ ???) would get me over one Utrack 24 or even a
> > Joeco
> > >>> other than the fact its connects via ethernet rather than USB ,
> > bearing in
> > >>> mind that the speaker will be connected analogue via a a couple of
> > >>>  multichannel amplifiers.
> > >>>
> > >>> On 28 June 2017 at 19:55, Richard Foss  wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, I agree with Guillaume - AVB is a good option. miniDSP sell an 8
> >  channel box AVB box, the N-DAC8, for $299.
> > 
> >  With three of these you have 24 channels, and they all run off the
> > same
> >  network clock. You would also need a small (4/5 port) switch.
> > 
> >  A more expensive, but also easily configurable option is their
> SPK-4P
> >  Power over Ethernet option ($395). For 22 channels, you would then
> > have
> >  22
> >  speakers connected to a 24 port switch. Power, audio, and control
> then
> >  all
> >  travel over one cable, which makes for easy configuration. Again,
> all
> >  speakers are synced to the same network master.
> > 
> >  Richard.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  On 2017-06-28 07:39 PM, Guillaume Le Nost wrote:
> > 
> >  Aside from dante, AVB is another option for multichannel audio over
> > > ethernet.
> > > It is now available as standard (and for free) in any Mac running a
> > > recent os, and several options for avb enabled amplifiers are
> > available:
> > > biamp, crown, l-acoustics to list a few.
> > > If converters are required, the Motu AVB series can help, and is
> > > relatively inexpensive.
> > >
> > > Guillaume
> > >
> > > On 28 Jun 2017, at 18:00, Jörn Nettingsmeier <
> > >
> > >> netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 06/27/2017 07:52 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> see my post before last for what went wrong. How much are the
> > Joecos ?
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/joeco_bbr64_dante_blackbox_
> recorder.htm
> > >>
> > >> However, if you go the Dante route, you might as well use an old
> > >> Minimac
> > >> with a virtual soundcard (if 32 ch out is enough) and an
> appropriate
> > >> Dante
> > >> converter. Should be cheaper, if you have the Mac

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-28 Thread Augustine Leudar

Hi Richard -
There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the soundscape is
designed in pre production for this installation and then its just a
multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I do are
interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime around the
space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing might be
good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like the way
power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.

On 28 June 2017 at 21:16, Richard Foss  wrote:

> Hi Augustine, this sounds like an interesting application. I was recently
> at the Buddhist rhythm garden in Hong Kong and experienced a multi-speaker
> system within the garden - it was very effective. The UTrack24 looks great,
> and affordable. Do you control the internal DSP mixer to have sounds moving
> across speakers or would this be pre-mixed into the channels you send? I
> have been using mixer matrices within the N-DAC8s and SPK-4Ps to provide
> immersive effects. The nice thing here is that you have a standard protocol
> to enable this. To use the N-DAC8s for your application you would indeed
> need to have 3 x N-DAC8s ($900) and a computer.
>
>
>
> On 2017-06-28 09:11 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
>> Hi Richard and Guillaume,
>> Interesting stuff. Two things to note - the installation is in a tropical
>> botanic garden so I am using a certain type of speaker that is pretty
>> resilient (used in saunas etc) whci is passive (for obvious reasons) and
>> connected by speaker cable . The AVB amps sound interesting - any links to
>> the highest channel count ones ?  I am not quite sure what advantage 4 *
>> N-DAC8
>> ($1200) + computer ($ ???) would get me over one Utrack 24 or even a Joeco
>> other than the fact its connects via ethernet rather than USB , bearing in
>> mind that the speaker will be connected analogue via a a couple of
>>   multichannel amplifiers.
>>
>> On 28 June 2017 at 19:55, Richard Foss  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I agree with Guillaume - AVB is a good option. miniDSP sell an 8
>>> channel box AVB box, the N-DAC8, for $299.
>>>
>>> With three of these you have 24 channels, and they all run off the same
>>> network clock. You would also need a small (4/5 port) switch.
>>>
>>> A more expensive, but also easily configurable option is their SPK-4P
>>> Power over Ethernet option ($395). For 22 channels, you would then have
>>> 22
>>> speakers connected to a 24 port switch. Power, audio, and control then
>>> all
>>> travel over one cable, which makes for easy configuration. Again, all
>>> speakers are synced to the same network master.
>>>
>>> Richard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-06-28 07:39 PM, Guillaume Le Nost wrote:
>>>
>>> Aside from dante, AVB is another option for multichannel audio over
 ethernet.
 It is now available as standard (and for free) in any Mac running a
 recent os, and several options for avb enabled amplifiers are available:
 biamp, crown, l-acoustics to list a few.
 If converters are required, the Motu AVB series can help, and is
 relatively inexpensive.

 Guillaume

 On 28 Jun 2017, at 18:00, Jörn Nettingsmeier <

> netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:
>
> On 06/27/2017 07:52 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
>> see my post before last for what went wrong. How much are the Joecos ?
>>
>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/joeco_bbr64_dante_blackbox_recorder.htm
>
> However, if you go the Dante route, you might as well use an old
> Minimac
> with a virtual soundcard (if 32 ch out is enough) and an appropriate
> Dante
> converter. Should be cheaper, if you have the Mac lying around, and no
> less
> robust if the hardware is otherwise ok.
>
>
> --
> Jörn Nettingsmeier
> De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
> Tel. +49 177 7937487
>
> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
> http://stackingdwarves.net
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> ___
 Sursound mailing list
 Sursound@music.vt.edu
 https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
 edit account or options, view archives and so on.

 --
>>> Professor Richard Foss
>>> Computer Science Department
>>> Rhodes University
>>> Grahamstown 6140
>>> South Africa
>>>
>>> Tel: +27 46 6038294
>>> Cell: +27 83 288 9354
>>> email: r.f...@ru.ac.za
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sursound mailing list
>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>>> edit account or options, view archives and

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-28 Thread Augustine Leudar

Hi Richard and Guillaume,
Interesting stuff. Two things to note - the installation is in a tropical
botanic garden so I am using a certain type of speaker that is pretty
resilient (used in saunas etc) whci is passive (for obvious reasons) and
connected by speaker cable . The AVB amps sound interesting - any links to
the highest channel count ones ?  I am not quite sure what advantage 4 * N-DAC8
($1200) + computer ($ ???) would get me over one Utrack 24 or even a Joeco
other than the fact its connects via ethernet rather than USB , bearing in
mind that the speaker will be connected analogue via a a couple of
 multichannel amplifiers.

On 28 June 2017 at 19:55, Richard Foss  wrote:

> Yes, I agree with Guillaume - AVB is a good option. miniDSP sell an 8
> channel box AVB box, the N-DAC8, for $299.
>
> With three of these you have 24 channels, and they all run off the same
> network clock. You would also need a small (4/5 port) switch.
>
> A more expensive, but also easily configurable option is their SPK-4P
> Power over Ethernet option ($395). For 22 channels, you would then have 22
> speakers connected to a 24 port switch. Power, audio, and control then all
> travel over one cable, which makes for easy configuration. Again, all
> speakers are synced to the same network master.
>
> Richard.
>
>
>
> On 2017-06-28 07:39 PM, Guillaume Le Nost wrote:
>
>> Aside from dante, AVB is another option for multichannel audio over
>> ethernet.
>> It is now available as standard (and for free) in any Mac running a
>> recent os, and several options for avb enabled amplifiers are available:
>> biamp, crown, l-acoustics to list a few.
>> If converters are required, the Motu AVB series can help, and is
>> relatively inexpensive.
>>
>> Guillaume
>>
>> On 28 Jun 2017, at 18:00, Jörn Nettingsmeier <
>>> netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06/27/2017 07:52 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
 see my post before last for what went wrong. How much are the Joecos ?

>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/joeco_bbr64_dante_blackbox_recorder.htm
>>>
>>> However, if you go the Dante route, you might as well use an old Minimac
>>> with a virtual soundcard (if 32 ch out is enough) and an appropriate Dante
>>> converter. Should be cheaper, if you have the Mac lying around, and no less
>>> robust if the hardware is otherwise ok.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jörn Nettingsmeier
>>> De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
>>> Tel. +49 177 7937487
>>>
>>> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
>>> http://stackingdwarves.net
>>> ___
>>> Sursound mailing list
>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
> --
> Professor Richard Foss
> Computer Science Department
> Rhodes University
> Grahamstown 6140
> South Africa
>
> Tel: +27 46 6038294
> Cell: +27 83 288 9354
> email: r.f...@ru.ac.za
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-28 Thread Richard Foss

Yes, I agree with Guillaume - AVB is a good option. miniDSP sell an 8 
channel box AVB box, the N-DAC8, for $299.


With three of these you have 24 channels, and they all run off the same 
network clock. You would also need a small (4/5 port) switch.


A more expensive, but also easily configurable option is their SPK-4P 
Power over Ethernet option ($395). For 22 channels, you would then have 
22 speakers connected to a 24 port switch. Power, audio, and control 
then all travel over one cable, which makes for easy configuration. 
Again, all speakers are synced to the same network master.


Richard.


On 2017-06-28 07:39 PM, Guillaume Le Nost wrote:

Aside from dante, AVB is another option for multichannel audio over ethernet.
It is now available as standard (and for free) in any Mac running a recent os, 
and several options for avb enabled amplifiers are available: biamp, crown, 
l-acoustics to list a few.
If converters are required, the Motu AVB series can help, and is relatively 
inexpensive.

Guillaume


On 28 Jun 2017, at 18:00, Jörn Nettingsmeier  
wrote:


On 06/27/2017 07:52 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
see my post before last for what went wrong. How much are the Joecos ?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/joeco_bbr64_dante_blackbox_recorder.htm

However, if you go the Dante route, you might as well use an old Minimac with a 
virtual soundcard (if 32 ch out is enough) and an appropriate Dante converter. 
Should be cheaper, if you have the Mac lying around, and no less robust if the 
hardware is otherwise ok.


--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.


--
Professor Richard Foss
Computer Science Department
Rhodes University
Grahamstown 6140
South Africa

Tel: +27 46 6038294
Cell: +27 83 288 9354
email: r.f...@ru.ac.za

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-28 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier


On 06/27/2017 07:52 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:

see my post before last for what went wrong. How much are the Joecos ?


https://www.thomann.de/gb/joeco_bbr64_dante_blackbox_recorder.htm

However, if you go the Dante route, you might as well use an old Minimac 
with a virtual soundcard (if 32 ch out is enough) and an appropriate 
Dante converter. Should be cheaper, if you have the Mac lying around, 
and no less robust if the hardware is otherwise ok.



--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-28 Thread Augustine Leudar

The Rasberry pi route does look really interesting - maybe for another
installation - but I really want this one to last years and its had so much
hard work put into the sound (started this one around 15 years ago) I
really really want it to be rock solid and not let down by the hardware
peripherals. I am not attached to any particular solution computer or
otherwise - I just want it to work - budget is a factor but I think the
client will want something more expensive that lasts than something cheaper
that doesnt and I dont want to cut corners.. The last two installations
both computer and motu were sealed in church altars in a museum - yet
despite being hidden and laden with warning signs -  they still got
switched off by cleaners and there wer epower cuts. They were interactive
so had to use computers - they used infrared range sensors (another note -
when temperature changes so does the threshold of the infraredrange sensors
to trigger events - I think it will be ultrasonic next time). Occasionally
when rebooted the multichannel file playing software - did not find the
motu audio driver but just went to the realtek MME. I was called out on a
couple of occasions just to change the driver settings, once just to plug
the computer back in. I think the problem with the motus might have been
the cold - these places were unheated and winters were bad. I have used
motus when doing installations in the Amazon and they were fine - perhaps
they just prefer the heat.
The idea of using a computer has its appeal if I can get on the network and
change files out - that presents interesting remote possibilities , as well
as of course being able to repair software problems remotely - I am sure
plenty of installations round the world have been running on computers
quite happily for years - however the physical location this system will be
installed in (ie staff will have access) and the experience Ive had, even
after taking every precaution - makes me wary of using a computer for this
particular installation.  The Cymatic and the Joeco look promising . The
Cymatic is £375 and the Joe Co is around £2000. The difference in price is
not really the issue for me - but reliability is. However I have already
read reports of the Cymatic being more reliable in some situations and the
agent at DV247 said they had never been sent one back - they also would
both come with the same guarantee - 3 years .
I would be interested if anyone has any experience with either of them ?

On 28 June 2017 at 14:37, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

>
> The Raspberry PI route is interesting and relatively cheap.
> There are now 8-channel "hats" like this one:
> http://www.suptronics.com/miniPCkits/x6000-8.0ch.html
> and there's even one board with a 4x100W amp in the making.
> Check all boards: http://www.suptronics.com/boards.html
> I love my $30 X400 hat with the integrated speaker and headphone amps.
>
> But a 24-channel RPI based solution would be much more difficult to
> integrate and would still cost over $400, which is about the same price
> than the uTrack24 (but only in Europe where it's sold for 375 euros; in
> the US it's $999, go figure).
>
> Then, there's the problem of building a custom Linux system for the task
> of playing audio (and doing tax returns). Then the required logic to
> synchronize 2 or more RPIs must be added. Also, the RPI takes at least a
> minute to boot from an unreliable SD card. It'd be fun, but a bit risky.
>
> One possibility is to add 2 USB sound modules to the RPI, synchronizing
> them to the 8-channel hat using the zita-ajbridge software, but I doubt
> that a SD card can provide enough bandwidth for 24 channels of
> uncompressed audio, even at 16bit/44.1Khz.
>
> So I still believe that for a reliable computer based solution, a
> single PC computer would be easier and safer. Also, the PC platform is
> mature, and a well defined method can survive PC hardware upgrades.
>
> --
> Marc
>
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 14:51:09 +0300 (EEST)
> Sampo Syreeni  wrote:
>
> > But if I *didn't* miss anything, I believe what you're after is
> > simply a high number of well synched channels, at a reasonable price
> > point. You want to get 22 of them right? Possibly more? You want them
> > to be child and bomb proof, too, right?
> >
> > You can't get that kind of hardware in over seven channels. You can't
> > get it compactly in over for, or perhaps six. Even then the stuff
> > will take the form of developer boards or SoC based hacker boards
> > such as the Pi.
> >
> > So, you're going to have to do some integration work in any case for
> > channel counts as high as you're asking for. My favourite would be
> > something like a Raspberry Pi for each eight channels, stacking the
> > D/A converters on top on 2x4 daughterboards. That'd buy you 8
> > channels per board, with ample processing power and Ethernet
> > connectivity to spare. You could even push it as far as three
> > daughter boards, so 12 channels per

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-28 Thread Marc Lavallée

The Raspberry PI route is interesting and relatively cheap.
There are now 8-channel "hats" like this one:
http://www.suptronics.com/miniPCkits/x6000-8.0ch.html
and there's even one board with a 4x100W amp in the making. 
Check all boards: http://www.suptronics.com/boards.html
I love my $30 X400 hat with the integrated speaker and headphone amps.

But a 24-channel RPI based solution would be much more difficult to
integrate and would still cost over $400, which is about the same price
than the uTrack24 (but only in Europe where it's sold for 375 euros; in
the US it's $999, go figure).

Then, there's the problem of building a custom Linux system for the task
of playing audio (and doing tax returns). Then the required logic to
synchronize 2 or more RPIs must be added. Also, the RPI takes at least a
minute to boot from an unreliable SD card. It'd be fun, but a bit risky.

One possibility is to add 2 USB sound modules to the RPI, synchronizing
them to the 8-channel hat using the zita-ajbridge software, but I doubt
that a SD card can provide enough bandwidth for 24 channels of
uncompressed audio, even at 16bit/44.1Khz.

So I still believe that for a reliable computer based solution, a
single PC computer would be easier and safer. Also, the PC platform is
mature, and a well defined method can survive PC hardware upgrades.

--
Marc

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 14:51:09 +0300 (EEST)
Sampo Syreeni  wrote:

> But if I *didn't* miss anything, I believe what you're after is
> simply a high number of well synched channels, at a reasonable price
> point. You want to get 22 of them right? Possibly more? You want them
> to be child and bomb proof, too, right?
> 
> You can't get that kind of hardware in over seven channels. You can't 
> get it compactly in over for, or perhaps six. Even then the stuff
> will take the form of developer boards or SoC based hacker boards
> such as the Pi.
> 
> So, you're going to have to do some integration work in any case for 
> channel counts as high as you're asking for. My favourite would be 
> something like a Raspberry Pi for each eight channels, stacking the
> D/A converters on top on 2x4 daughterboards. That'd buy you 8
> channels per board, with ample processing power and Ethernet
> connectivity to spare. You could even push it as far as three
> daughter boards, so 12 channels per motherboard, and you still
> wouldn't saturate either of the USB or the Ethernet port. But you be
> pushing the processor quite a lot already, if you did any substantial
> processing, such as well-resampled fractional sample delay correction
> which I suggested above.

--
Marc
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Sampo Syreeni


On 2017-06-27, Augustine Leudar wrote:

I know I've asked this before but maybe there's some new developments. 
HAs anyone any suggestions for anything up to a permanent 22 channel 
installation (could be two devices started at the same time and set to 
loop). [...]


Why not just have a couple of commodity PC's running the highest channel 
count external D/A converters you can muster within your budget? Given 
the existence of 7.1 home cinema, lots of implicitly synchronized 
converters already exist, at reasonable cost. Given the existence of 
newer USB, Firewire, HDMI and even Ethernet based transports, reliably 
feeding such multibank converters shouldn't be a problem.


The only problem is how to keep up synchronization between the 
converters. But then that ought to be a problem which is soluble by 
feedback and software.


First, even low-range modern converters keep pretty good time all by 
themselves. They don't drift too much, compared to what we can hear in 
spatial reproduction; compared to accidentally moving the listeners' 
heads ten centimetres or so in aggregate, even an average free running 
commercial converter will keep adequate time over minutes or tens of 
minutes by comparison.


And second, if you really want to make sure your separate converters run 
in time with each other, it's possible to insert an inaudible timing 
reference into the signal set which lets you do continuous feedback 
correction. If this sounds alarming, it should: lots of papers and 
trials exist which purported to make inaudible changes to the program 
material, yet proved to degrade playback. Especially on the digital 
watermarking side the results have been dismal.


But then, here the application would be rather different. First, unlike 
in watermarking, there would be no requirement for the added signal to 
be highly resilient. Instead it could be optimized to be highly 
inaudible. That means that if it was only added to aid in 
synchronization, it would need a very narrow bandwidth, amplitude and 
the resulting extremely low data rate, so that it could be buried *well* 
below even the perceptual noisefloor of an existing recording.


And secondly, it would only be present upon playback. It wouldn't need 
to be buried into the original program material. It could be optimized 
further, e.g. on psychoacoustical grounds, over just the one playback 
system, or switched off at will if it ever somehow annoyed any listener. 
It could also be different for each playback system, and each 
reproduction instance, so that the human hearing system's notorious 
capability of learning to recognize even low level noise signals, if 
repeated many enough times verbatim, could still be subverted.


As I said, I don't think such solutions exist as of now. But I also 
think the theory behind them is well developed enough to make their 
implementation for your use almost trivial. All we'd need is a) an 
inaudible reference signal to provide us with a relative delay reference 
(easily doable via MLS sequences or the like), 2) a self-acquiring servo 
loop to drive a set of relative delay estimates to zero (a simple 
exercise in first order control theory, with the driving measurement 
being derived from an FFT implemented autocorrelation measure), and 3) a 
high grade, capable of continuous variability delay resampler to be 
driven by such a measurement-correction loop (implementable utilizing 
part of said FFT machinery, or separately if e.g. oversampling, minimum 
phase characteristics or something such is required).


I'll attach Olli Niemitalo here, because he might be even more well 
versed than I am in this sort of thing, and certainly is the more 
adventuresome+productive of us two, in the signal processing department.



Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult proof,


Tape one gigabit ethernet cable into the floor, leading to your 
converter bank in the next combustion compartment. Software gang it up 
with a wifi route leading to the same destination.


The only way it's proofer to the end of the world, or your kids, is a 
setup where you can't actually route back the signal to be heard, in the 
first place. ;)

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Augustine Leudar

Hi Charlie - I was hoping you would chime in - my internets a bit
weird at the moment so I cant really see your page properly (I can
only see software?) What hardware have you got that will do up to 22
channels and whats the price ?
cheers,
Gus

On 27/06/2017, Charlie Richmond  wrote:
> Over 1.5 million virtual channels in permanent installations now:
>
> http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/news.html#pu
>
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Charlie Richmond 
> wrote:
>
>> http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/virtual-sound-system.html
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM, David Pickett  wrote:
>>
>>> At 19:12 27/06/2017, JÃ¶rn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>>>
 On 06/27/2017 02:53 PM, David Pickett wrote: > At 13:52 27/06/2017,
 Augustine Leudar wrote: >  >Hi, >  >I know I've asked this before but
 maybe
 there's some new developments. > HAs >  >anyone any suggestions for
 anything up to a permanent 22 channel >  >installation (could be two
 devices started at the same time and set to >  >loop) . The best
 suggestion
 Ive had I think is one of those old hard disk >  >recorders for use with
 mixing desks ? Any other suggestions ? Ive been > the >  >computer with
 multchannel soundcard route and it is not an experience Id >  >like to
 repeat. Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult proof, > > A second hand Alesis
 HD24, if you are on a low budget.  They are > bomb-proof. Iff you can
 get
 the appropriate disks, which seem to be fetching collector's prices
 these
 days :-D

>>>
>>> I am still using mine (as a backup, connected with ADAT I/O) with the old
>>> parallel disks, but members of the Yahoo HD24 group have successfully
>>> converted machines to run with modern SATA disks.  Unlike the USB stick,
>>> nobody is likely to nick the HD!
>>>
>>> As to not having a guarantee, the system is so simple that once it works
>>> it seems to go for ever.  However, as a consequence of this, I see that
>>> prices are holding steady on Ebay at c. 500 quid.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sursound mailing list
>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> * Charlie Richmond - http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com
>> 
>> * Viber: +16047159441 <(604)%20715-9441> Skype, LinkedIn & Twitter:
>> charlierichmond
>> * facebook: charlie.richmond
>> * facebook.com/pages/Richmond-Sound-Design-Ltd/130195960832
>> 
>> * google.com/+CharlieRichmond google.com/+Richmondsounddesign
>>
>
>
>
> --
> * Charlie Richmond - http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com
> 
> * Viber: +16047159441 Skype, LinkedIn & Twitter: charlierichmond
> * facebook: charlie.richmond
> * facebook.com/pages/Richmond-Sound-Design-Ltd/130195960832
> 
> * google.com/+CharlieRichmond google.com/+Richmondsounddesign
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> 
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit
> account or options, view archives and so on.
>


-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Charlie Richmond

Over 1.5 million virtual channels in permanent installations now:

http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/news.html#pu

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Charlie Richmond 
wrote:

> http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/virtual-sound-system.html
>
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM, David Pickett  wrote:
>
>> At 19:12 27/06/2017, JÃ¶rn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/27/2017 02:53 PM, David Pickett wrote: > At 13:52 27/06/2017,
>>> Augustine Leudar wrote: >  >Hi, >  >I know I've asked this before but maybe
>>> there's some new developments. > HAs >  >anyone any suggestions for
>>> anything up to a permanent 22 channel >  >installation (could be two
>>> devices started at the same time and set to >  >loop) . The best suggestion
>>> Ive had I think is one of those old hard disk >  >recorders for use with
>>> mixing desks ? Any other suggestions ? Ive been > the >  >computer with
>>> multchannel soundcard route and it is not an experience Id >  >like to
>>> repeat. Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult proof, > > A second hand Alesis
>>> HD24, if you are on a low budget.  They are > bomb-proof. Iff you can get
>>> the appropriate disks, which seem to be fetching collector's prices these
>>> days :-D
>>>
>>
>> I am still using mine (as a backup, connected with ADAT I/O) with the old
>> parallel disks, but members of the Yahoo HD24 group have successfully
>> converted machines to run with modern SATA disks.  Unlike the USB stick,
>> nobody is likely to nick the HD!
>>
>> As to not having a guarantee, the system is so simple that once it works
>> it seems to go for ever.  However, as a consequence of this, I see that
>> prices are holding steady on Ebay at c. 500 quid.
>>
>> David
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> * Charlie Richmond - http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com
> 
> * Viber: +16047159441 <(604)%20715-9441> Skype, LinkedIn & Twitter:
> charlierichmond
> * facebook: charlie.richmond
> * facebook.com/pages/Richmond-Sound-Design-Ltd/130195960832
> 
> * google.com/+CharlieRichmond google.com/+Richmondsounddesign
>



-- 
* Charlie Richmond - http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com

* Viber: +16047159441 Skype, LinkedIn & Twitter: charlierichmond
* facebook: charlie.richmond
* facebook.com/pages/Richmond-Sound-Design-Ltd/130195960832

* google.com/+CharlieRichmond google.com/+Richmondsounddesign
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Charlie Richmond

http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/virtual-sound-system.html

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM, David Pickett  wrote:

> At 19:12 27/06/2017, JÃ¶rn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>
>> On 06/27/2017 02:53 PM, David Pickett wrote: > At 13:52 27/06/2017,
>> Augustine Leudar wrote: >  >Hi, >  >I know I've asked this before but maybe
>> there's some new developments. > HAs >  >anyone any suggestions for
>> anything up to a permanent 22 channel >  >installation (could be two
>> devices started at the same time and set to >  >loop) . The best suggestion
>> Ive had I think is one of those old hard disk >  >recorders for use with
>> mixing desks ? Any other suggestions ? Ive been > the >  >computer with
>> multchannel soundcard route and it is not an experience Id >  >like to
>> repeat. Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult proof, > > A second hand Alesis
>> HD24, if you are on a low budget.  They are > bomb-proof. Iff you can get
>> the appropriate disks, which seem to be fetching collector's prices these
>> days :-D
>>
>
> I am still using mine (as a backup, connected with ADAT I/O) with the old
> parallel disks, but members of the Yahoo HD24 group have successfully
> converted machines to run with modern SATA disks.  Unlike the USB stick,
> nobody is likely to nick the HD!
>
> As to not having a guarantee, the system is so simple that once it works
> it seems to go for ever.  However, as a consequence of this, I see that
> prices are holding steady on Ebay at c. 500 quid.
>
> David
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
* Charlie Richmond - http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com

* Viber: +16047159441 Skype, LinkedIn & Twitter: charlierichmond
* facebook: charlie.richmond
* facebook.com/pages/Richmond-Sound-Design-Ltd/130195960832

* google.com/+CharlieRichmond google.com/+Richmondsounddesign
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread David Pickett


At 19:12 27/06/2017, JÃ¶rn Nettingsmeier wrote:
On 06/27/2017 02:53 PM, David Pickett wrote: > 
At 13:52 27/06/2017, Augustine Leudar 
wrote: >  >Hi, >  >I know I've asked this before 
but maybe there's some new developments. > 
HAs >  >anyone any suggestions for anything up 
to a permanent 22 channel >  >installation 
(could be two devices started at the same time 
and set to >  >loop) . The best suggestion Ive 
had I think is one of those old hard 
disk >  >recorders for use with mixing desks ? 
Any other suggestions ? Ive been > 
the >  >computer with multchannel soundcard 
route and it is not an experience Id >  >like to 
repeat. Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult 
proof, > > A second hand Alesis HD24, if you are 
on a low budget.  They are > bomb-proof. Iff you 
can get the appropriate disks, which seem to be 
fetching collector's prices these days :-D


I am still using mine (as a backup, connected 
with ADAT I/O) with the old parallel disks, but 
members of the Yahoo HD24 group have successfully 
converted machines to run with modern SATA 
disks.  Unlike the USB stick, nobody is likely to nick the HD!


As to not having a guarantee, the system is so 
simple that once it works it seems to go for 
ever.  However, as a consequence of this, I see 
that prices are holding steady on Ebay at c. 500 quid.


David

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Marc Lavallée

I see... But a standalone player is nothing else than a dedicated
computer, configured for the task of playing multi-channel audio. A
pre-configured PC can be configured to be idiot-proof with much more
options (EQ, etc) at the expense of more effort (I agree). The Cymatic
unit looks nice, but we can read on the product page: "The uTrack24
records directly onto USB media plugged into the front panel,...". So
unless the unit and the USB media are itself enclosed or secured,
there's a risk that something goes wrong. Also, does it have an
auto-play feature (in case of a power reset)? Or an auto-loop feature?
The uTrack24 is designed for a specific target audience and a few use
cases. Because there's no free lunch, and many possible specific
scenarios, I would still favor a computer based solution. 
--
Marc

Le Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:30:09 +0100
Augustine Leudar  a écrit:

> This Cymatic thing looks promising - so it works as as standalone ?
> What storage medium does it use ?
> Marc - the main problem was the USB cable getting jogged loose despite
> being well out of harms way (or so I thought), cleaners unplugging the
> computer to hoover and then different drivers not being found and
> finally the two motu ultralites making very loud weird clicking noises
> (not buffer related) after a few weeks. There were other issues but Id
> rather keep things in one box rather than having to automate, tweak
> and control an operating system  and remove loads of unessassry
> background processes (even linux).
> 
> On 27/06/2017, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:52:41 +0100
> > Augustine Leudar  wrote:  
> >> Ive been the computer with multchannel soundcard route and it is
> >> not an experience Id like to repeat.  
> >
> > What were the problems you experienced?
> >
> > --
> > Marc
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >  
> 
> 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier

On 06/27/2017 01:52 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:> Ive been the> computer 
with multchannel soundcard route and it is not an experience Id> like to 
repeat. Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult proof,

Can I ask what went wrong?


--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier

On 06/27/2017 02:53 PM, David Pickett wrote:

At 13:52 27/06/2017, Augustine Leudar wrote:
 >Hi,
 >I know I've asked this before but maybe there's some new developments. 
HAs

 >anyone any suggestions for anything up to a permanent 22 channel
 >installation (could be two devices started at the same time and set to
 >loop) . The best suggestion Ive had I think is one of those old hard disk
 >recorders for use with mixing desks ? Any other suggestions ? Ive been 
the

 >computer with multchannel soundcard route and it is not an experience Id
 >like to repeat. Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult proof,

A second hand Alesis HD24, if you are on a low budget.  They are 
bomb-proof.

Iff you can get the appropriate disks, which seem to be fetching 
collector's prices these days :-D

There is also this:
https://joeco.co.uk/multi-track-audio-players-products-live-install-joeco/

Played with it at a trade show, my impression was a very good one. Not 
cheap though.

--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Augustine Leudar

Hmmm that's already making me nervous... I can see it now Staff member :
"has anyone got a USB stick I can borrow ?" "Just use that one in that
weird box thing behind the counter" etc etc maybe I'm being over the top
but you wouldn't believe what people get up toshame it doesn't have an
SD card slot. Still the best option so far and at least it would have a
guarantee - the alesis looks good but second hand means no guarantee.

On Tuesday, 27 June 2017, Wim  wrote:

> Hi Augustine,
>
> It uses anything that's USB2 compatible. Stick, harddisk, MP3 player (if
> the MP3 player has a disk-like operating mode)...
>
> It's also a USB audio interface.
>
> And there's a recorder counterpart, the LR16. No preamps, so it is very
> affordable.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wim
>
> 2017-06-27 17:30 GMT+02:00 Augustine Leudar  >:
>
> > This Cymatic thing looks promising - so it works as as standalone ?
> > What storage medium does it use ?
> > Marc - the main problem was the USB cable getting jogged loose despite
> > being well out of harms way (or so I thought), cleaners unplugging the
> > computer to hoover and then different drivers not being found and
> > finally the two motu ultralites making very loud weird clicking noises
> > (not buffer related) after a few weeks. There were other issues but Id
> > rather keep things in one box rather than having to automate, tweak
> > and control an operating system  and remove loads of unessassry
> > background processes (even linux).
> >
> > On 27/06/2017, Marc Lavallée > wrote:
> > > On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:52:41 +0100
> > > Augustine Leudar > wrote:
> > >> Ive been the computer with multchannel soundcard route and it is not
> > >> an experience Id like to repeat.
> > >
> > > What were the problems you experienced?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Marc
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu 
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > edit
> > > account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu 
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20170627/f4fb2e5e/attachment.html>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu 
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>


-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Augustine Leudar

This Cymatic thing looks promising - so it works as as standalone ?
What storage medium does it use ?
Marc - the main problem was the USB cable getting jogged loose despite
being well out of harms way (or so I thought), cleaners unplugging the
computer to hoover and then different drivers not being found and
finally the two motu ultralites making very loud weird clicking noises
(not buffer related) after a few weeks. There were other issues but Id
rather keep things in one box rather than having to automate, tweak
and control an operating system  and remove loads of unessassry
background processes (even linux).

On 27/06/2017, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:52:41 +0100
> Augustine Leudar  wrote:
>> Ive been the computer with multchannel soundcard route and it is not
>> an experience Id like to repeat.
>
> What were the problems you experienced?
>
> --
> Marc
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit
> account or options, view archives and so on.
>

-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Marc Lavallée

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:52:41 +0100
Augustine Leudar  wrote:
> Ive been the computer with multchannel soundcard route and it is not
> an experience Id like to repeat.

What were the problems you experienced?

--
Marc
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread David Pickett

At 13:52 27/06/2017, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>Hi,
>I know I've asked this before but maybe there's some new developments. HAs
>anyone any suggestions for anything up to a permanent 22 channel
>installation (could be two devices started at the same time and set to
>loop) . The best suggestion Ive had I think is one of those old hard disk
>recorders for use with mixing desks ? Any other suggestions ? Ive been the
>computer with multchannel soundcard route and it is not an experience Id
>like to repeat. Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult proof,

A second hand Alesis HD24, if you are on a low budget.  They are bomb-proof.

David

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent installations

2017-06-27 Thread Augustine Leudar

Hi,
I know I've asked this before but maybe there's some new developments. HAs
anyone any suggestions for anything up to a permanent 22 channel
installation (could be two devices started at the same time and set to
loop) . The best suggestion Ive had I think is one of those old hard disk
recorders for use with mixing desks ? Any other suggestions ? Ive been the
computer with multchannel soundcard route and it is not an experience Id
like to repeat. Must be bomb/cleaner/child/adult proof,
cheers,
Gus
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

45 matches

Mail list logo