RE: [Biofuel] Biofuel as a rural community development project inMozambique
Alexis, With the current oil prices I am sure many things can be done in rural communities in Mozambique in the area of biofuels. I would leave fuel ethanol for the sugar cane factories to produce. It can be mixed up to 10% in gasoline as the Malawians are doing, apparently. The rural poor buy kerosene (and sometimes gasoil) for illumination at very high prices, above USD1000,00 per cubic metre in many remote areas, were vegetable oil (coconut oil for instance) could be used. This would be a very small-scale project, but the local alternative price of the raw material should be investigated. I have done some calculations on coconut oil and found out that the raw material (copra) is the most important single cost in the production of oil. The vegetable oil could also be used in diesel engines running the small-scale mills scattered around the rural communities. Best regards, Armando A.C. Rodrigues Av Francisco O. Magumbwe, 149 C.P 3279 Maputo 2 Maputo - Moçambique Tel. Móvel: +258 82 3016040 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Mensagem original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nome de Alexis Rawlinson Enviada: segunda-feira, 27 de Junho de 2005 20:43 Para: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Assunto: [Biofuel] Biofuel as a rural community development project inMozambique I am toying with the idea of trying to set up a pilot rural community development project involving biofuel (bioethanol or biodiesel or SVO, whichever is most appropriate) in Mozambique. I am hoping that you can give me your opinion and advice on the technical feasibility, commercial viability and ultimately, long-term sustainability, in a poor isolated African rural setting, of small-scale, community-based, locally-run biofuel production. If anyone has had experience of a similar project, I would be extremely interested to have information about that. Am I right in thinking that the technical feasibility is beyond question? Bear in mind that we are talking about very isolated and poor communities where everything has to be low-tech and low-maintenance. On the basis of this criterion, biodiesel appears to be the most appropriate fuel as it can be used in diesel vehicles/machines/generators (even very old and rickety ones?) with no engine modifications. We can discount the issue of having to change filters initially because of accumulated petrodiesel deposits falling off (we could include the cost of new filters in start-up subsidies). We also don't need to worry about problems with cold starts, since Mozambique is a tropical country. I am more concerned about the question of commercial viability. The project will only be replicable on a larger scale and sustainable in the long term if, after initial start-up costs, every link in the value chain has an incentive to participate and it is profitable for all concerned (i.e. the anticipated gains should outweigh the expected costs, including the opportunity cost of doing something else). a) Inputs: Local farmers will have an incentive to supply the biofuel production facility with feedstock only if prices paid and quantities required by the production facility are stable and remunerative compared to undertaking other activities, such as growing other crops for other purposes. b) Production: Local entrepreneurs will have an incentive to make investments in biofuel production facilities and operate and maintain those facilities only if they can sell their fuel at a remunerative price, i.e. if they can compete against fossil fuels (whether locally, nationally, regionally or globally, depending on the scale of production). c) Demand: We know that the world market for biofuels is growing rapidly and that the policy environment is becoming extremely favourable. However, supposing, as is most likely to be the case, that local biofuel is most competitive on the local market (and least competitive on the global market, where it has to compete with industrial-scale production), there must be a critical mass of buyers on that market, i.e. local communities must have the desire / ability to invest in machines, vehicles or generators, and the ability to pay for biofuel on a regular basis to run those machines. I guess the root question is the following: is the current situation in rural southern Africa - no biofuel production - a market failure that could be resolved by kickstarting a virtuous cycle in the sector with start-up outreach and support activities and subsidies, or is it simply not an economically viable sector except with permanent subsidy and support? It seems to me that, to answer this question, there are three crucial cost assessments which need to be made: a) Start-up costs: the required investments by farmers, by local biofuel entrepreneurs, by future biofuel consumers, and to what extent can/should outreach and support activities subsidize these fixed costs? b) Price and availability of feedstock: How will local feedstock production compare to growing other crops or
Re: [Biofuel] US oil war game
I am surprised if this is the first time they did this, but is was done by former officials. Maybe this war game was only an alibi, to be able to bring the issues out in the open. It would be enormously if the sitting administration have not done this frequently during the last 20 years and came up with the same conclusion every time. It cannot be possible that this is news. Hakan At 06:25 AM 6/30/2005, you wrote: Outcome Grim at Oil War Game Former Officials Fail to Prevent Recession in Mock Energy Crisis By John Mintz Washington Post Staff WriterFriday, June 24, 2005; Page A19 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062301896.html The United States would be all but powerless to protect the American economy in the face of a catastrophic disruption of oil markets, high-level participants in a war game concluded yesterday. The exercise, called Oil Shockwave and played out in a Washington hotel ballroom, had real-life former top U.S. officials taking on the role of members of the president's Cabinet convening to respond to escalating energy crises, culminating in $5.32-a-gallon gasoline and a world wobbling into recession. The American people are going to pay a terrible price for not having had an energy strategy, said former CIA director Robert M. Gates, who took on the role of national security adviser. Stepping out of character, he added that the scenarios portrayed were absolutely not alarmist; they're realistic. The exercise began with ethnic unrest in Nigeria, leading to the collapse of the oil industry in that west African nation. Then al Qaeda launched crippling attacks on key energy facilities in Valdez, Alaska, and Saudi Arabia. But the war game's participants -- including former CIA director R. James Woolsey, former Marine Corps commandant Gen. P.X. Kelley and former EPA administrator Carol Browner, soon realized the U.S. government had few options in the short term to prevent an economic crash in this country and worldwide. When the exercise's planners first met last year, oil was in the $40-a-barrel range. As they fantasized where oil prices would be for the war game's start in an imagined late 2005, they said, they set them at $58 but worried they were being absurdly pessimistic. Yesterday, the closing price for a barrel of oil was $59.42. The war game players also referred several times to other real-life events of today. A major feature of the exercise was how China's voracious appetite for oil is driving up world prices, and only yesterday it was announced the Beijing government, in a bold and unprecedented act, is bidding to buy the U.S. oil company Unocal. The exercise was organized by two nonprofit groups that focus on the national security implications of U.S. dependence on foreign oil: the National Commission on Energy Policy and Securing America's Future Energy (SAFE). The scenarios were dreamed up by a team of former oil industry executives and government officials, including Rand Beers, a White House counterterrorism official who quit in 2003 to protest the Iraq war. The underlying situation dramatized in the exercise -- and accepted by most energy analysts -- is that tolerances are so tight between supply and demand, that even small disruptions in the delivery of oil and natural gas can cause cascades of unpleasant developments. The war game contemplated that when oil prices spiked and the Cabinet met to consider its options, it realized it had almost no clout to influence events. The standard response, drawing on the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, was symbolic at best. The president should not give in to Saudi offers that the kingdom would lower prices if he stopped pressing for Saudi democracy, the participants agreed. Within weeks conditions were worsening -- the Valdez oil terminal was on fire, as was a major Saudi oil port, and Western technicians were being killed there. Foreign oil firms soon pulled tens of thousands of workers out of Saudi Arabia. Suddenly lacking technical expertise, Saudi facilities could no longer play their decades-long role of guaranteed swing provider of oil in response to disruptions elsewhere. As the global recession deepened, there was no central banker of oil to smooth out temporary dislocations. The participants concluded almost unanimously that they must press the president to invest quickly in promising technologies to reduce dependence on overseas oil, such as hybrid cars powered by gasoline and plug-in electricity; and cars that run on fuels derived from prairie grasses, animal waste and other products. They all agreed these projects would take years to yield any benefit but should not wait for the kind of crisis they were dramatizing. If you want to put a frown on the face of [Saudi] Wahhabis, talk about 100-mile-per-gallon vehicles, Woolsey said. We don't need a Manhattan Project to do it.
Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel
Paddy O'Reilly a écrit : I'm not sure what the average price of gas (aka petrol) is in the US, in Ireland it has just passed the Euro mark per litre - that's USD5.44 a gallon and in England its about 90p per litre - that's USD8.17 a gallon. Perhaps this kind of price in the US will be enough to get people's attention (George Bush and his cohorts would be delighted at this price). Unfortunately nothing significant is still being done in Europe about changing to biofuels. Hi, In France, the average price is around 1,11 Euro per liter of gazoline (unleaded 95, it's more for 98) and 1 Euro for gazole(diesel), due to the huge (about 80% of price) taxes. Compared to sunflower edible oil first price at 1,10 Euro / liter or PLG at 0,66. No legal way for commercial biofuels out of the industrial solution chosen by french gov. People begins to get out of invidualism and use more public transportations or co-voiturage (don't know the right translation in English : co-conveyance or car sharing ?). And I do agree with last words of Paddy, and the political crisis in EU won't help it, especially with the british presidence for the next 6 month according to recent news explaining that the whole agricultural areas of UK could not be enough to reach EU biofuels goals, and how T. Blair is opposed to EU continental countries on agricultural subsidies. What's about running cars with turf in Irland ? ;-) frantz (3 trips in Eire since 1986) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Mike Pelly on National Public
Fwd'd message from Mike Pelly: Hello Keith, I managed to get a few more minutes of fame today on National Public Radio and wanted to share it with you. Mike http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4722639 The full sound file is at that link. Very nice too, great work Mike! :-) See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html Biodiesel recipe from Mike Pelly Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel
Believe me, with the amount of smoke coming from some of the exhausts its as if the vehicles were running on turf. However that route (pardon the pun) is being stopped since the government environment body has put a stop to the erosion of the countryside by turf-cutting. Unfortunately Ireland is becoming more and more a car-oriented country and cyclists have to take to the pavement/footpath to feel safe. This is in turn desensitising car drivers to the presence of other road users, teaching cyclists to ignore correct rules of the road and cause even more use of cars as parents consider it safer to drive their kids the whole half mile to school rather than have them walk. Frantz DESPREZ wrote: Paddy O'Reilly a écrit : I'm not sure what the average price of gas (aka petrol) is in the US, in Ireland it has just passed the Euro mark per litre - that's USD5.44 a gallon and in England its about 90p per litre - that's USD8.17 a gallon. Perhaps this kind of price in the US will be enough to get people's attention (George Bush and his cohorts would be delighted at this price). Unfortunately nothing significant is still being done in Europe about changing to biofuels. Hi, In France, the average price is around 1,11 Euro per liter of gazoline (unleaded 95, it's more for 98) and 1 Euro for gazole(diesel), due to the huge (about 80% of price) taxes. Compared to sunflower edible oil first price at 1,10 Euro / liter or PLG at 0,66. No legal way for commercial biofuels out of the industrial solution chosen by french gov. People begins to get out of invidualism and use more public transportations or co-voiturage (don't know the right translation in English : co-conveyance or car sharing ?). And I do agree with last words of Paddy, and the political crisis in EU won't help it, especially with the british presidence for the next 6 month according to recent news explaining that the whole agricultural areas of UK could not be enough to reach EU biofuels goals, and how T. Blair is opposed to EU continental countries on agricultural subsidies. What's about running cars with turf in Irland ? ;-) frantz (3 trips in Eire since 1986) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You.begin:vcard fn:Paddy O'Reilly n:O'Reilly;Paddy org:Silicon Software Systems;Digital Consumer Business Unit adr:Model Farm Road;;Cork Business Technology Park;Cork;;;Ireland email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Senior IC Design Engineer tel;work:+353 21 230 2400 url:http://www.s3group.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] fuel efficient cars
Trivia Facts - You just never know when one of these may pop up in quiz one day!? http://www.3wheelers.com/facts.html Lowest fuel consumption of a 3-Wheeler In 1996 a road legal vehicle set the record for the lowest petrol consumption at the Shell Mileage Marathon, Northants. (UK). The diesel-powered Combidrive mouse set a record of 568 mpg. (201.1 km/litre) [473 US mpg] http://www.3wheelers.com/combidrive.html Electric And Hybrid Vehicles - An Overview of the Benefits, Challenges, and Technologies (Revised 6-17-99) Tables on over all energy efficiency over fuel chain relating to propulsion units. Battery comparisons. Energy Consumption and the Environment - Impacts and Options for Personal Transportation (Revised 2-4-96) Puts alternative renewable fuels into prospective. http://www.rqriley.com/download.html It takes less energy to bicycle one mile than it takes to walk a mile. In fact, a bicycle can be up to 5 times more efficient than walking. If we compare the amount of calories burned in bicycling to the number of calories an automobile burns, the difference is astounding. One hundred calories can power a cyclist for three miles, but it would only power a car 280 feet (85 meters)! (with a .gif image showing) A comparison of the energy cost of various forms of transportation shows that the bicycle is most energy-efficient. (kcal/km per person) http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/humanpower1.html A bicycle is also the world's most energy efficient mode of travel, using just 35 calories per passenger mile versus 1860 for an average automobile with one occupant. http://www.bicyclinglife.com/NewsAndViews/5_Different_Reasons.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] US oil war game
If you want to put a frown on the face of [Saudi] Wahhabis, talk about 100-mile-per-gallon vehicles, Woolsey said. We don't need a Manhattan Project to do it. It cannot be that difficult as Austin Cars in the UK used to advertise their Model 7 as Doing 100 mph and 100 mpg (UK gallon) and that was between the wars. The power unit was only 700cc or 45ci and when sold to the public the unmodified engine did 50+mpg and about 50mph. If they could get that economy and performance out of a 20s 4 cylinder engine for advertising purposes then why not now? Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.7/34 - Release Date: 29/06/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] fuel efficient cars and motorcycles
I'm getting a 1965 Royal Enfield Bullet ready for the road. It is powered by a Lombardini Greaves 325 cc diesel. Hopefully it will go 50 mph on B100 and get about 150-200 mpg. Does anyone have experience with these motorcycles? I believe they were available in the UK and in India. Wish me luck.Cheers,ToddOn Jun 29, 2005, at 11:21 PM, MH wrote: Hi Hakan, I was thinking of all the motorcycles I see and with some imagination and checking in with the department of motor vehicles one could build a two seater something like the VW 1L but with 3 wheels and possibly register it as a motorcycle though I haven't thought about this in decades. My Honda 500 cc use to get around 45 mpg and the Harley 61 ci 32 mpg and here in the US converted motorcycle three-wheeler trikes are popular so why not a 155 mpg California Commuter doing 55 mph. I'd love to watch the tv program building that one! My past autos such as the Fiat 850, Honda Civic, Chevy Sprint and Ford Festiva averaged 40 mpg but kept me out of the rain, warm in the winter and brought home a store load of goodies if needed. So I've given up motorcycling and now find pedaling my bicycle or tricycle more enjoyable along with the exercise and when needed using the 48 mpg Geo Metro with E10. Maybe the US gov't and Detroit will come up with something in the distant future as the price of crude oil climbs but its difficult for me to imagine them doing that nowadays. I read at one of the links that you gave earlier, that they went on highwayto a show. At average speed around 70 kmph and one person, the consumptionwas 0.89 l per 100 km, 1.35 l per 100 miles or 281 mpg. If you trim theweight and with a lower average speed, it should be possible to make avehicle (covered moped) that make 500 mpg. I doubt that such a vehiclewould be of general interest.A Lupo 2L or Smart 2L is however feasible and I suspect that we could seethat quite soon. I think that Detroit have a lot to do, before they getfuel efficient production cars.Hakan ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Todd G. Hershberger, CTS ITSMedia - Goshen College 574.674.2149 - Pager 574.535.7735 - Work ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel
The price of gas in UK is striking! Attached is a fuel price report published by The Automobile Association of UK. I calculate the US dollar cost of a US gallon of 95 octane(don't know ethanol content) purchased in the UK to be $5.77. This is closer to the Ireland cost quoted below vs. the England quote. Actually, this report shows Irish gas costing more than English. It also interesting to note that tax accounts for 69.9% of the total cost! Can that be right! In Missouri we pay $.3543/gallon or about 16%. Tim Schlueter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paddy O'Reilly Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:24 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel I'm not sure what the average price of gas (aka petrol) is in the US, in Ireland it has just passed the Euro mark per litre - that's USD5.44 a gallon and in England its about 90p per litre - that's USD8.17 a gallon. Perhaps this kind of price in the US will be enough to get people's attention (George Bush and his cohorts would be delighted at this price). Unfortunately nothing significant is still being done in Europe about changing to biofuels. Bill Vaughn wrote: Mean while the Japanese figured out how to make hybrids at a prices to sell to the American public. Seems there is a line waiting for the hybrids now because of the souring gas prices. Again the big three are slow to answer to the American public and their sinking sales prove once again they don't have a clue. Bill The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Biofuel as a rural community development projectinMozambique
Title: RE: [Biofuel] Biofuel as a rural community development projectinMozambique Here is something from another list i am on. interesting numbers mel funny you should mention this. while i was at a biodiesel conf in nh last week, a speaker from nh dept of agriculture ,dick uncles ,had some of the useful data. soy- 35 bushels- at 20 cents per pound oil (1.20/gallon)$200 sunflower- 1200 lbs- at 35 cents per pound oil (2.10/gallon ) $147 hay- 2 tons- $240 corn silage- 20 tons- $600 apples- 240 bushels- $2880 corn- 70 cwt. $3000 berries- ? $5000 up to $1 he didn't mention capital costs or other inputs (fertilizer, fuel, plastic, labor) i would supplement this with my quick analysis: 1 acre is 43560 sq.ft. solar thermal output is about 1-2 gallons of fuel oil equivalent per sq.ft. per year in our climate. so at $2/gallon, annual thermal output of an acre would be $18. capital cost of such a 2500 kw (thermal) system about $2.5 million for an roi of 7% , thermal efficiency about 50% solar pv output is about 10 watts per sq.ft and 1-1.5 kwh per watt per year so at 10 cents per kwh its value would be about $5. capital cost of such a 500kw system about $5million for an roi of 1% . electrical efficiency about 10% note this does not take into account some of the inevitable selfshading, but that would reduce output by less than a factor of 2. clearly direct production of electricity or thermal energy is a lot more efficient than agricultural, but a lot more capital intensive. another speaker from unh mike briggs mentioned the potential for more efficient conversion of sunlight to oil by algae, but clearly capital costs and water would be an issue. as land values increase (moving from rural to urban) the direct use increases in attractiveness. afterall, the colllectors and panels can be mounted on bldgs integrally. its interesting to note that property taxes alone in nh at $20/1000 limit agricultural use to land worth less than $1/acre. (my 10 acre suburban lot was just assessed at 16 so i'm already over the limit (except for berries)) food for thoughtFrom: Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [solar-ac] hydrogen for coolingDate: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:20:44 -0400Hi AllI've been wanting to do an energy budget comparing the use of an area ofland covered with pv collectors or some kind of heat collection platesand the same area use to grow corn or canola to produce usable fuel.Always hate burning stuff for energy but the "direct" technologies seemso inefficient and expensive.Would have to account for co-products andpollution amount.Anybody seen such a study on the net?Save me a lot of work in "sparetime" I don't have?;-)KenMarc Ringuette wrote: Long term, though, I'm keen on the possibility of replacing the fossil-fuel economy with solar-produced hydrogen or methane. Although, I admit, such a scheme would have to compete with nature's own solar-to-organic-fuel scheme, photosynthesis. Maybe I should be thinking of fields of corn, rather than fields of shiny dish concentrators. Cheers Marc Archives of solar-ac messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solar-ac/messagesYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solar-ac/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Archives of solar-ac messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solar-ac/messages YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "solar-ac" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Cross Posted Reply -- Re: The Cost of Alternative Energy
There is a lot of debate about the different choices for alternative energy and which one is "better". While I don't disagreewith Barbara's assessment, there also needs to be a parallel discussion about what technology is the most appropriate for a given situation. Even at 100% efficiency, solar panels would be more of a challenge for powering cars than the transportability of liquid fuels. It's also important to keep in mind that energy technologies used in combination may yield some of the most desirable results. Look at the table below and ask yourself: What if the boiler heat source was a solar concentrator and the pumps and mixers were runfrom PV? Mike __ Table 1: Plant Electricity Use (1)http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id29.html Use Motors Daily Use KWH/Day KWH/Gal HP Watts (hrs.) Cook tank mixer 1-1/2 1800 9 16.2 Separator 1/2 1000 6 6.0 Utility pump 3/4 1200 7 8.4 Distillation Beer pump 1/6 400 24 9.6 Bottoms 1 pump 1/6 400 24 9.6 Bottoms 2 pump 1/3 (2) 750 24 18.0 Reflux pump 1/3 (2) 750 24 18.0 Condenser fan 1/12 200 24 4.8 Compressor (controls) 1 1400 8 11.2 Utilities (3) 20.4 Subtotal for Distillation 71.2 0.297 Plant Total 122.2 0.510 Table 2: Plant Boiler Use (1) Use BTU/hour Daily Use (hrs) BTU/day BTU/gal. Cooker 135,000 8.2 1,100,000 4,600 Distillation 120,000 24.0 2,880,000 12,000 Plant Total 3,980,000 16,600 (1) based on 24 hours per day production at 10 gallons per hour(2) both considerably oversized since 1/3hp was the smallest explosion proof motor we could find at the time(3) lights, boiler controls, water softener, etc., estimated at 20% of plant total. __ barbara deane-gillett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: funny you should mention this. while i was at a biodiesel conf in nh last week, a speaker from nh dept of agriculture ,dick uncles ,had some of the useful data. soy- 35 bushels- at 20 cents per pound oil (1.20/gallon)$200 sunflower- 1200 lbs- at 35 cents per pound oil (2.10/gallon ) $147 hay- 2 tons- $240 corn silage- 20 tons- $600 apples- 240 bushels- $2880 corn- 70 cwt. $3000 berries- ? $5000 up to $1 he didn't mention capital costs or other inputs (fertilizer, fuel, plastic, labor) i would supplement this with my quick analysis: 1 acre is 43560 sq.ft. solar thermal output is about 1-2 gallons of fuel oil equivalent per sq.ft. per year in our climate. so at $2/gallon, annual thermal output of an acre would be $18. capital cost of such a 2500 kw (thermal) system about $2.5 million for an roi of 7% , thermal efficiency about 50% solar pv output is about 10 watts per sq.ft and 1-1.5 kwh per watt per year so at 10 cents per kwh its value would be about $5. capital cost of such a 500kw system about $5million for an roi of 1% . electrical efficiency about 10% note this does not take into account some of the inevitable selfshading, but that would reduce output by less than a factor of 2. clearly direct production of electricity or thermal energy is a lot more efficient than agricultural, but a lot more capital intensive. another speaker from unh mike briggs mentioned the potential for more efficient conversion of sunlight to oil by algae, but clearly capital costs and water would be an issue. as land values increase (moving from rural to urban) the direct use increases in attractiveness. afterall, the colllectors and panels can be mounted on bldgs integrally. its interesting to note that property taxes alone in nh at $20/1000 limit agricultural use to land worth less than $1/acre. (my 10 acre suburban lot was just assessed at 16 so i'm already over the limit (except for berries)) food for thoughtFrom: Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [solar-ac] hydrogen for coolingDate: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:20:44 -0400Hi AllI've been wanting to do an energy budget comparing the use of an area ofland covered with pv collectors or some kind of heat collection platesand the same area use to grow corn or canola to produce usable fuel.Always hate burning stuff for energy but the "direct" technologies seemso inefficient and expensive.Would have to account for co-products andpollution amount.Anybody seen such a study on the net?Save me a lot of work in "sparetime" I don't have?;-)KenMarc Ringuette wrote: Long term, though, I'm keen on the possibility of replacing the fossil-fuel economy with solar-produced hydrogen or methane. Although, I admit, such a scheme would have to compete with nature's own solar-to-organic-fuel scheme, photosynthesis. Maybe I should be thinking of fields of corn, rather than fields of shiny dish concentrators. Cheers Marc Archives of solar-ac messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solar-ac/messagesYahoo! Groups Links* To
Re: [Biofuel] fuel efficient cars and motorcycles
I'm getting a 1965 Royal Enfield Bullet ready for the road. It is powered by a Lombardini Greaves 325 cc diesel. Hopefully it will go 50 mph on B100 and get about 150-200 mpg. Does anyone have experience with these motorcycles? I believe they were available in the UK and in India. Wish me luck. :-) I think a lot of people will think you're lucky already just to have such a bike. But best of good luck anyway Todd. Any pictures? Best wishes Keith Cheers, Todd On Jun 29, 2005, at 11:21 PM, MH wrote: Hi Hakan, I was thinking of all the motorcycles I see and with some imagination and checking in with the department of motor vehicles one could build a two seater something like the VW 1L but with 3 wheels and possibly register it as a motorcycle though I haven't thought about this in decades. My Honda 500 cc use to get around 45 mpg and the Harley 61 ci 32 mpg and here in the US converted motorcycle three-wheeler trikes are popular so why not a 155 mpg California Commuter doing 55 mph. I'd love to watch the tv program building that one! My past autos such as the Fiat 850, Honda Civic, Chevy Sprint and Ford Festiva averaged 40 mpg but kept me out of the rain, warm in the winter and brought home a store load of goodies if needed. So I've given up motorcycling and now find pedaling my bicycle or tricycle more enjoyable along with the exercise and when needed using the 48 mpg Geo Metro with E10. Maybe the US gov't and Detroit will come up with something in the distant future as the price of crude oil climbs but its difficult for me to imagine them doing that nowadays. I read at one of the links that you gave earlier, that they went on highway to a show. At average speed around 70 kmph and one person, the consumption was 0.89 l per 100 km, 1.35 l per 100 miles or 281 mpg. If you trim the weight and with a lower average speed, it should be possible to make a vehicle (covered moped) that make 500 mpg. I doubt that such a vehicle would be of general interest. A Lupo 2L or Smart 2L is however feasible and I suspect that we could see that quite soon. I think that Detroit have a lot to do, before they get fuel efficient production cars. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelis ts.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainabl elists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.or g/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/http://ww w.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Todd G. Hershberger, CTS ITSMedia - Goshen College 574.674.2149 - Pager 574.535.7735 - Work ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] fuel efficient cars
Hi, When I did a part of the military service early 1960th 1,100 km north of Stockholm, I did this stretch in my 1955 VW on 80-90 liter. The 500cc one cylinder BSA I had, took about half of it and could do around 160-170 kmh. I also had a Plymouth V8 and it took 4-5 times more than the VW, but did 180 kmh with ease. That was the days when gas was really cheap. The first 50 cc moped I had, in Sweden they were modified to a speed limit of 30 kmh, took around the same or a bit more as the VW L1 and a bit less than L3. Fuel efficiency came a long way since then, but the relative difference between US and European vehicles seams to be the same. The same can be said for the higher fuel cost in Europe, were more than the financial gains has gone to the governments in taxes. Fuel costs per liter in Europe is around the same as per gallon in US. No wonder that Detroit/oil industry does not want fuel efficient cars. LOL Hakan At 06:21 AM 6/30/2005, you wrote: Hi Hakan, I was thinking of all the motorcycles I see and with some imagination and checking in with the department of motor vehicles one could build a two seater something like the VW 1L but with 3 wheels and possibly register it as a motorcycle though I haven't thought about this in decades. My Honda 500 cc use to get around 45 mpg and the Harley 61 ci 32 mpg and here in the US converted motorcycle three-wheeler trikes are popular so why not a 155 mpg California Commuter doing 55 mph. I'd love to watch the tv program building that one! My past autos such as the Fiat 850, Honda Civic, Chevy Sprint and Ford Festiva averaged 40 mpg but kept me out of the rain, warm in the winter and brought home a store load of goodies if needed. So I've given up motorcycling and now find pedaling my bicycle or tricycle more enjoyable along with the exercise and when needed using the 48 mpg Geo Metro with E10. Maybe the US gov't and Detroit will come up with something in the distant future as the price of crude oil climbs but its difficult for me to imagine them doing that nowadays. I read at one of the links that you gave earlier, that they went on highway to a show. At average speed around 70 kmph and one person, the consumption was 0.89 l per 100 km, 1.35 l per 100 miles or 281 mpg. If you trim the weight and with a lower average speed, it should be possible to make a vehicle (covered moped) that make 500 mpg. I doubt that such a vehicle would be of general interest. A Lupo 2L or Smart 2L is however feasible and I suspect that we could see that quite soon. I think that Detroit have a lot to do, before they get fuel efficient production cars. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel
It also interesting to note that tax accounts for 69.9% of the total cost! Can that be right! YES it bloody well is and some places charge up to 7 dollars for a sized US gallon. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.7/34 - Release Date: 29/06/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] strange observation re mileage
I have experienced the exact opposite. With A light rain or damp road surface, not a torrent my dodge gained 1.5 mpg or so this had me checking for tire wear thinking that there was tire scrub. But I found tire wear to be good pressure on the money. I cant explain the gain but bring on the fog / mist. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:24 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] strange observation re mileage Didn't slow, used cruise control. The truck gets 12.5 mpg towing a 24 foot steel Titan with 6 horses on board so I don't think the water matched that. I perceive it as mixture must change. Some sensor and computer thing. Kirk Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Water is heavy and sticks to the car and fills divets in the bed of the truck (adding weight), plus the rain hitting the car makes it have to work harder to maintain speed, and on top of all that the water on the ground means your tires have you be turned with more force to get through it. Moisture in the air, if the air isn't cold, will negatively affect combustion as well. Did you slow down for the rain? That might have been a problem as well. Chris N - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 2:51 PM Subject: [Biofuel] strange observation re mileage I was driving my daughters new 1 ton Ford on a trip and was averaging 18.2 mpg. Then I encountered rain and mileage fell to about 12.5. Apparently something must be changed by the computer. Kirk Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mystery logo
"intel inside"?;)-Original Message-From: r [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:45:25 -0400Subject: [Biofuel] Mystery logo I saw a few logos stamped on the inside of the gas tank fuel door of my vehicle, a 2003 Dodge Caravan SE. One of them, I found out is "E85", the symbol for "ethanol 85". Another symbol, which is a mystery to me, represents the letter "i" stamped on the right page of a book. Any ideas as to the meaning of the "i inside a book" symbol?___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] fuel efficient cars and motorcycles
I had a 1968 VW Beetle that got 28 mpg US not quit as good as you but it had a larger engine than yours and my foot was heavier back then. I loved the simplicity of it all although I grew tried of scraping the windows in winter with the window down. I eventually learned how to replace the heater cores in my US vehicles as time passed on and beyond cheap gasoline. Was the Combidrive Mouse considered a covered moped of sorts using a 265cc diesal engine? Up to 255.9 mpg imperial doesn't sound bad . . . nor does Lucky Todd and his diesel Lombardini Greaves 325 cc 1965 Royal Enfield with the fuel economy he anticipates. - Hi, When I did a part of the military service early 1960th 1,100 km north of Stockholm, I did this stretch in my 1955 VW on 80-90 liter. The 500cc one cylinder BSA I had, took about half of it and could do around 160-170 kmh. I also had a Plymouth V8 and it took 4-5 times more than the VW, but did 180 kmh with ease. That was the days when gas was really cheap. The first 50 cc moped I had, in Sweden they were modified to a speed limit of 30 kmh, took around the same or a bit more as the VW L1 and a bit less than L3. Fuel efficiency came a long way since then, but the relative difference between US and European vehicles seams to be the same. The same can be said for the higher fuel cost in Europe, were more than the financial gains has gone to the governments in taxes. Fuel costs per liter in Europe is around the same as per gallon in US. No wonder that Detroit/oil industry does not want fuel efficient cars. LOL Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] fuel efficient cars and motorcycles
Mopeds are defined by the engine and weight, the weight I do not remember straight off but the engine had to be under 50 cc. I Sweden they had an additional restriction and that was that they would not go faster than 30 kmph, which was achieved by reducing the carburetor intake and I do no know many youngsters that did not learned how to handle a drill. LOL In Sweden the moped do not require license, but you have to be 15. I bought my first when I was 12, for money that I earned by putting scrapped radios together to working ones. I was hanging out with two workshops, one was the radio TV and the other was a very nice gunsmith. I was competing in target shooting and still have a number of silver plates and pieces from that time 12 to 16. An other interest I had, was horseback riding, which I started with when I was 9 years old. The Stockholm racing track was nearby and I worked with horses on the school leaves, did trainee races when I was 14, but then I became too large and heavy. Light motorbike, 75 kg and max 200 cc, license you can take at 16 and I bought my first, when I was 14, a 125 cc old Husqvarna. Got caught for illegal driving, but was too young and they lost the record, so I could take the license when I was 16 anyway. Heavy motorbike and car, the age in Sweden is 18 years. Hakan At 02:26 AM 7/1/2005, you wrote: I had a 1968 VW Beetle that got 28 mpg US not quit as good as you but it had a larger engine than yours and my foot was heavier back then. I loved the simplicity of it all although I grew tried of scraping the windows in winter with the window down. I eventually learned how to replace the heater cores in my US vehicles as time passed on and beyond cheap gasoline. Was the Combidrive Mouse considered a covered moped of sorts using a 265cc diesal engine? Up to 255.9 mpg imperial doesn't sound bad . . . nor does Lucky Todd and his diesel Lombardini Greaves 325 cc 1965 Royal Enfield with the fuel economy he anticipates. - Hi, When I did a part of the military service early 1960th 1,100 km north of Stockholm, I did this stretch in my 1955 VW on 80-90 liter. The 500cc one cylinder BSA I had, took about half of it and could do around 160-170 kmh. I also had a Plymouth V8 and it took 4-5 times more than the VW, but did 180 kmh with ease. That was the days when gas was really cheap. The first 50 cc moped I had, in Sweden they were modified to a speed limit of 30 kmh, took around the same or a bit more as the VW L1 and a bit less than L3. Fuel efficiency came a long way since then, but the relative difference between US and European vehicles seams to be the same. The same can be said for the higher fuel cost in Europe, were more than the financial gains has gone to the governments in taxes. Fuel costs per liter in Europe is around the same as per gallon in US. No wonder that Detroit/oil industry does not want fuel efficient cars. LOL Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] White emulsion
Hello everyone again, Yesterday a person I know, gave me 1000 liters of out of validation virgin oil. I'm thinking making biodiesel with it so I don't see a problem with using it. I did a titration using fenolftalein just like I did for passed batches, but this time I spended 5 ml of NaOH instead of the usual 1,0 - 1,5 for OVU titration (STRANGE). My short experience tells me that is something wrong with this oil, maybe too much FFA's formed with oxidation since this oil was stored for a long time. By my calculations, in a mini-batch of 500 mL of this oil is necessary 4.250g of NaOH. OK, so I did it. I put 500 mL of oil plus 100 mL of ethanol with pre- mixed 4.250g of NaOH in a erlenmeyer baloon with agitation and temperature control (55ºC) The reaction went very well with beautifull colors. After 2 hours I stop heating and agitating and I let it setlle. The separation was spectacular, in 15 minutes I've got almost colorless biodiesel in top and dark brown Glycerin and FFA's in the bottom. So far so good. I've notice that the quantity of glycerin and FFA's was excessive (about 180 mL) usually it's 80 mL in a 500 mL of oil batch. So I think, OK this oil got a lot of FFA's that's why I've got a larger volume of the heavy fase. When I tried to wash the biodiesel with tap water, it formed a white emulsion. I've waited a long time but there was no separation, absolutely nothing. What happened?? What am I doing wrong Can I make biodiesel with this oil? Sorry about my english Thanks a lot Filipe Paulette __ Porque insiste em pagar o dobro? Compare o preço da sua ligação à Internet http://acesso.portugalmail.pt/maisbarato ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] re property taking supreme court
The white house resident has had his own experience with eminent domain. It made him a wealthy man. http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=100228 Back in 1989, Bush hauled in the moolah on the stadium built in Arlington, Texas for the Texas Rangers. What's interesting about this one is that the Texas legislature passed a bill allowing the private corporation that owned the Rangers to exercise eminent domain, normally a power reserved for public entities. We're all pretty familiar with condemnation for public projects. It's what the Army Corps of Engineers does to build flood-control dams or Municipalities do to construct water mains or Highway Authorities do to obtain rights-of-way. In the Texas Rangers case the condemnation was on behalf of a handful of private individuals, one of whom was George W. This surprising form of socialism with baseball teams condemning private property for new stadiums is now quite common in the US. It had a particularly sordid ring in the Texas deal. This private corporation condemned not only enough land for a spanking new baseball stadium, but also took an additional 300 acres - yes 300 acres - of surrounding land for commercial development. Arlington residents floated most of the package with jacked-up taxes. These paid for the bonds needed to buy the land. It seems that our no-tax President wasn't ideologically opposed to increasing taxes if it padded his own bank account. The padding was generous: Bush made out like a bandit with his initial investment of $640,000 zooming to a cool $15.4 million in 1998 when he sold out. More details at http://www.mollyivins.com/showMisc.asp?FileName=970509_f1. htm or do google searches on eminent domain and Texas Rangers and stadium to get hundreds of sites on the topic Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: Brian, Her comments were exactly what I was trying to get across in the other thread. Now City Planners can use acquistion of Taxes as a means to take personal propery. There is a situation in Houston in which a family owned river front business is about to lose 300 feet of their property so a developer can build a marina and restaurant - by eminent domain. Guess we will all need powerful corporate lawyers to keep our homes. Larry On 6/24/05, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you so much for the link. The dissenting opinions of Justices O'Connor and Thomas are what I found most enlightening. I couldn't agree with them more. Brian - Original Message - From: S Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:03 AM Subject: [Biofuel] re property taking supreme court Brian, http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/23jun20051201/www.s upremecourtus.gov/opinions/04pdf/04-108.pdf or go to Common Dreams .org and look for US Supreme Court link (right side somewhere). See also NYT article by Linda Greenhouse. Difference between public use and public purpose? Pfizer pharmacueticals will build a research complex. (who are BTW immune under the patriot act from lawsuits?) I wonder if under the same arguement public purpose could enable a community to declare a Wal-Mart eminent domain and turn it into a hospital?? S. Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainableli sts.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainableli sts.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainableli sts.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] re property taking supreme court
And http://www.bushfiles.com/bushfiles/SweetheartDeal.html S.Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The white house resident has had his own experience with eminent domain. It made him a wealthy man. http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=100228 Back in 1989, Bush hauled in the moolah on the stadium built in Arlington, Texas for the Texas Rangers. What's interesting about this one is that the Texas legislature passed a bill allowing the private corporation that owned the Rangers to exercise eminent domain, normally a power reserved for public entities. We're all pretty familiar with condemnation for public projects. It's what the Army Corps of Engineers does to build flood-control dams or Municipalities do to construct water mains or Highway Authorities do to obtain rights-of-way. In the Texas Rangers case the condemnation was on behalf of a handful of private individuals, one of whom was George W. This surprising form of socialism with baseball teams condemning private property for new stadiums is now quite common in the US. It had a particularly sordid ring in the Texas deal. This private corporation condemned not only enough land for a spanking new baseball stadium, but also took an additional 300 acres - yes 300 acres - of surrounding land for commercial development. Arlington residents floated most of the package with jacked-up taxes. These paid for the bonds needed to buy the land. It seems that our no-tax President wasn't ideologically opposed to increasing taxes if it padded his own bank account. The padding was generous: Bush made out like a bandit with his initial investment of $640,000 zooming to a cool $15.4 million in 1998 when he sold out. More details at http://www.mollyivins.com/showMisc.asp?FileName=970509_f1. htm or do google searches on eminent domain and Texas Rangers and stadium to get hundreds of sites on the topic Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: Brian, Her comments were exactly what I was trying to get across in the other thread. Now City Planners can use acquistion of Taxes as a means to take personal propery. There is a situation in Houston in which a family owned river front business is about to lose 300 feet of their property so a developer can build a marina and restaurant - by eminent domain. Guess we will all need powerful corporate lawyers to keep our homes. Larry On 6/24/05, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you so much for the link. The dissenting opinions of Justices O'Connor and Thomas are what I found most enlightening. I couldn't agree with them more. Brian - Original Message - From: S Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:03 AM Subject: [Biofuel] re property taking supreme court Brian, http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/23jun20051201/www.s upremecourtus.gov/opinions/04pdf/04-108.pdf or go to Common Dreams .org and look for US Supreme Court link (right side somewhere). See also NYT article by Linda Greenhouse. Difference between public use and public purpose? Pfizer pharmacueticals will build a research complex. (who are BTW immune under the patriot act from lawsuits?) I wonder if under the same arguement public purpose could enable a community to declare a Wal-Mart eminent domain and turn it into a hospital?? S. Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainableli sts.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainableli sts.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainableli sts.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
