[Biofuel] biobased plastics - electroactive polymers
Biobased Plastic Flexes Its Muscle Washington - Electroactive polymers--plastics that expand or contract when stimulated by electricity--can now be made from plants rather than petrochemicals, according to Agricultural Research Service (ARS) scientists in Peoria, Ill. There is now significant interest in the possible use of electroactive polymers in many industrial and biomedical applications, from light-emitting diodes and controlled-release devices to artificial muscles and environmental sensors. The material is typically petroleum-based, but ARS researchers Victoria Finkenstadt and J.L. Willett showed that plant polysaccharides like starch can work just as well. Use of the polysaccharides in certain types of conductive polymers could leapfrog some of the pitfalls associated with using petroleum feedstocks, such as U.S. reliance on foreign suppliers, according to Finkenstadt, a chemist, and Willett, a supervisory chemical engineer with ARS' National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research in Peoria. full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1133597214.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Congrats on the job, but im not changing my stance. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? You guys DO know I work for the Treasury Dept.? bob allen wrote: Jason and Katie wrote: i dont give a fuzzy flying fuck about taxes, yeah, you and leona 'taxes are for little people helmsley if they want to stop me and test my fuel for dyes, ill spend my time in the can, and get right back to it when i get home. America is a great country... its the idiots at the helm that bother me. - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? There are two types of taxes for Fuel - State and Federal. All registered fuel Sellers are required to be registered with the IRS and the State they sell fuel in. They inject a dye in the fuel - Yellow for on road fuel Red for off road. I think all gasoline is taxed and not dyed. ( I think the yellow has been discontinued now.) but any way they pay a tax on every gallon sold at the pump. Ethanol and Biodiesel is the same as Dinogas and Dinodiesel in the eyes of the State and Federal officials. Some states do encourage alternate fuels by one means or another but I havent heard of any tax breaks. Now in the world of do it yourselfers it is how brave you are to avoid paying those taxes. I leave that one there. If you are talking about hybrids that use electricity the government gets the fuel side tax but would have a rough time implementing a zap tax for charging the vehicle but its not out of the question they may try. Jim Alan Petrillo wrote: I caught a piece of something on the news about the US Guvmint wanting to tax alternate fuel vehicles so they can pay their fair share of highway maintenance costs. Anyone know anything about this? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Kieths Right a softly softly covert approach is the only way to get biodiesiel embeded into the fabric of society in the manner in which this comunity has envisoned Another thing not every one wants to be seen as an extreme leftwing group it gives ammunition to people who would like tom control biodiesiel Regards Luke Devitt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Biofuel Digest, Vol 8, Issue 18 Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:19:36 -0500 -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 15:02:53 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed Hello Walker and all I would be more than willing to pay and be a member of a group like this. It's not going to be long before the government or Exxon tries to get in on the act and we need to be prepared. We've been foreseeing it for six years at least, and we've already seen such moves in various places. But it's probably too late, the cat's out of the bag, we're right out of control, IMHO. Also at the local level, the worldwide community of biofuels homebrewers have developed cheap, effective and safe small-scale production methods that produce high-quality fuel and that anyone can use. There are now many kinds of independent small-scale local operations producing and using millions and millions of gallons of biofuels a year, growing fast. Most of it goes right under the official radar, nobody calculates it, nobody has any clear idea of how much it is or of quite who these people are. But they're forming active networks of grassroots-level biofuels producers in many countries, and they have the potential to expand very quickly. -- How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch In Japan it's illegal to brew your own sake, you're not allowed to own a still. Yet it's a widespread practice, lots of people in all walks of life brew their own, it's openly discussed, there are popular books about it. They don't make a serious hole in the revenues of them-with-the-licenses so it's generally ignored. What if they did start to make such a serious hole? Or started brewing large amounts of fuel ethanol so the fuel majors started taking notice, who everyone here is so careful not to risk offending? Put them all in jail? Maybe in the US, but Japan couldn't do that, the damage to society would be huge, with little or nothing gained from it. Where in the world do you not find illicit stills at work? As with all things illicit, attempts to eradicate or control it seldom if ever meet with more than 10% success, and even that's short-lived for special efforts, 5% is more the norm. Prohibition in the US wasn't exactly a resounding success, it just drove it underground and boosted organised crime. I've read that the consumption of alcohol went up, by as much as 80% some have said. The attraction of the illicit. The heavens forfend that we should ever dream of being anything but good little law-abiding economic units, uh I mean consumers - sorry, citizens, but the sort of individuals who'll make their own fuel in the first place might not see it quite that way. Maybe they'll think there are really only two laws, first, don't hurt anyone, second, don't get caught. Shocking, shocking... but can you see them all just saying yes sir? There's also a large factor at work here that wasn't a factor in the Prohibition - the homebrewers are doing good and they're right, and they know it, while Big Central biofuels doesn't have a future, or not a leading one anyway. Fuel miles are just as unsustainable as food miles, same issue. The local little guys will win, all they have to do is wait it out. Meanwhile they have the moral high ground, illegal or not. Modern-day Robin Hoods. The NBB and the EPA have both effectively tried to put a cramp on homebrewers and small-scale local production but I don't see it being cramped exactly, all it's doing is growing fast. Another danger here, that's been discussed before a few times when people proposed forming associations to represent homebrewers, is whether it might help to precipitate exactly what we're trying to avoid. We keep encountering this here in Japan, where various aspects of biofuels use are unregulated purely because the bureaucracy hasn't noticed it yet. The last thing to do is to ask them - of course they'll then regulate it straight away, after consulting the interests of the big guys first, as is their wont. That's the nature of bureaucrats. There are other ways of doing it. We quietly made some arrangements for SVO use with the local authorities that established a precedent which people in other areas can refer to, handled on the basis that it
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Im gonna have to agree with kieth on this one. the best way to eliminate a problem with the least repercussion, is to blindside it. in our case we need to stay quiet and continue to grow so large, that when the government/corporations DO notice their margins are shrinking and they try to interfere, we'll just roll them under. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? [snip] Where in the world do you not find illicit stills at work? As with all things illicit, attempts to eradicate or control it seldom if ever meet with more than 10% success, and even that's short-lived for special efforts, 5% is more the norm. [snip] In a way it reminds me of the Hundred Flowers movement in Mao's China, launched as a new opening up of free expression and ideas, a lifting of oppression: Let one hundred flowers bloom, thundered Mao, let one hundred schools of thought contend! Encouraged, a lot of folks decided to speak out and duly stuck their heads up. So Mao chopped them off. So please do be careful what you might precipitate. I don't think that biofuellers need a lobby group. I think we should just go on doing it, and spreading like a weed. What *they* don't know won't hurt them. Until it's too late. I also think you're making a mistake in proposing to deal with it at a national level instead of a global one. THEY'RE national, WE'RE global! Best Keith [snip] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] an apology
anyone who was insulted/offended/irritated etc. by my anti fuel tax post, i didnt consider the audience and i apologize for it, sorry guys. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] an apology
I can't speak for Keith or anyone else but, (IMO) if you present your position in a way that reveals facts logic and reason, the only ones who are offended are those who would prefer not to believe it. It also oftenmeans that you have made a compelling argument.my $.02Mike Jason and Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone who was insulted/offended/irritated etc. by my anti fuel tax post, ididnt consider the audience and i apologize for it, sorry guys.---[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hi Keith, Thanks for the reply. I'm puzzled by: My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that we should because it is unethical to kill sentient creatures for no good reason. ANIMALS HAVE RIGHTS. Just because they are dumb doesn't mean we can deprive them of a happy existance because they happen to taste nice. You haven't really responded to what people have said about that. Your main concern seems to be with what's sentient and what's not. It's unethical to kill ANYTHING for no good reason, unethical and not sustainable. I'll try to respond to specific questions. Were they from you or from Andres? Regards Dermot ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] democracy now: chavez to give the us cheap oil to poorfolks
Dear sir: if I were a poor american I would agree 100% with you, but I am a venezuelan and Mr. Chavez is giving away our wealth with out even consulting the venezuelan congress... besides he is planting the seed of class hate and class strugle in USA. Yours truly, F. - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 5:31 PM Subject: [Biofuel] democracy now: chavez to give the us cheap oil to poorfolks Did you all hear today's Democracy Now? Looks like the US is letting Chavez sell heating oil at a 40% reduction to poor-er folk in Brooklyn and Boston. I imagine the petro boys and the corporate world are squirming right now: this is the first time a major corporation (Citgo?) has VOLUNTARILY taken a profit cut! This is, in my view, a major accomplishment and may signal the beginning of the end for corporate-America... I really hope Chavez is around next year. KF ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Company says run your car on cow fuel
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051201/wl_canada_nm/canada_environment_climate_cows_col VILLE STE. CATHERINE, Quebec (Reuters) - A Canadian company has an idea for motorists worried about global warming -- put a cow in your tank. A C$14 million factory near Montreal started producing biodiesel fuel two weeks ago from the bones, innards and other parts of farm animals such as cattle, pigs or chickens that Canadians do not eat. We're using animal waste to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, said marketing director Ron Wardrop of Rothsay, which runs the plant. We need more of this type of thing, he said at the plant by the St. Lawrence River, near Montreal where 189 nations are meeting this week to work out how to curb climate change widely blamed on emissions of heat-trapping gases from fossil fuels. Rothsay, a unit of Maple Leaf Foods Inc., is also making biodiesel at the plant by recycling oil from fast food restaurants, like from the deep-fryers used to cook french fries. Biodiesel emits little of the smog of conventional gasoline or diesel fuel and almost none of the heat-trapping gases that most scientists say are driving up temperatures and could cause more floods, storms and rising sea levels in coming decades. At full capacity, the Rothsay plant will produce 35 million liters (9.2 million U.S. gallons) of biodiesel a year, the greenhouse gas equivalent of removing 16,000 light trucks or 22,000 cars from the roads. So far we're producing at about a quarter of capacity, Wardrop said. Production is a pinprick out of Canada's total diesel use of 2.2 billion liters. PEANUT OIL Biodiesel can also be made from farm crops, such as soy or canola. Germany's Rudolf Diesel, who built the first diesel engines in the 1890s, designed them to run on peanut oil. Wardrop said he believed the Rothsay plant was the third of its kind in the world, along with one in Germany and one in Kentucky. Vehicles using biodiesel get tax breaks or subsidies from governments. Biodiesel is competitive in price, with the support of the government, with oil prices at $55 a barrel, Wardrop said. It would not compete if oil prices dropped to $20, he said. At the Ville Ste. Catherine plant, the animal and fat waste arrives from a rendering plant as a thick brown liquid -- with a gut-wrenchingly rancid smell. It leaves as an almost odorless clear yellow fuel. Biodiesel is produced by combining natural oils or fats with alcohols such as methanol or ethanol. The process leaves two products -- biodiesel and glycerin. When you drive, some people say it smells of popcorn or french fries, said Claude Bourgault, general manager of Rothsay in the Quebec area. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Keith wrote: Prohibition in the US wasn't exactly a resounding success, it just drove it underground and boosted organised crime. I've read that the consumption of alcohol went up, by as much as 80% some have said. The attraction of the illicit. Some interesting related info: In researching the history of alcohol fuel I learned the prohibition movement was primarily funded by JD Rockefeller. At the time alcohol was the dominant fuel in the US and he had found out that the byproduct of petroleum they had been pouring into rivers could be made into gasoline and used for vehicle fuels. He funded the Women's Christian Temperance Union to help make drinking alcohol illegal. They took their hatchets into bars and broke bottles and kegs and caused a big ruckus that led to the Constitutional amendment outlawing drinking alcohol. He also funded enough Congressional campaigns to get supporting legislation to shift the balance from alcohol fuel toward gasoline. By the time the new amendment overruled prohibition, Standard Oil had consolidated its market. During Jimmy Carter's presidency there was a big push for homegrown alcohol. We easily got a permit and made it in our barn with our home-built equipment. Carter sent people to see how we little guys were doing. His man liked our operation so much he hired Jock to take his still to the government sponsored alternate energy fairs and teach farmers how to make their own stills and fuel. One man came up to him after he said why alcohol was so much better than oil and told him, If you keep talking like that you won't be around very long. Someone told Jock he was from Shell Oil. Maybe he was also talking about Carter, who was the biggest alternate energy president we ever had. He lasted only one term, partially due to a major oil country, Iran, who took American hostages and brokered a deal to release them only after Reagan was elected. Another victory for big oil. Marilyn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Keith, I'm not sure that Mike is proposing a national campaign complete with television commercials and lobbyists well-funded with $ to grease the gears of the political process. It sounds as though he might be willing to monitor proposals that could effect BD homebrewers here in the US and keep us posted. After all, the original message to this thread was: caught a piece of something on the news about the US Guvmint wanting to tax alternate fuel vehicles so they can pay their fair share of highway maintenance costs. Anyone know anything about this? AP The first sentence has caused a great deal of discussion, but no one has answered the question: Anyone know anything about this? Is there a proposal? Who is making the proposal? We've discussed taxes on fuel, dying fuel,etc. when the question asks about taxing alternate fuel vehicles. Maybe there is a proposal to tax electric cars based on miles travelled. Commercial buses are taxed, after paying fuel tax, additional road use tax based on miles travelled in each state. The discussions have been great. I've been following them with interest. I would love to have someone keeping track of the way things are playing out at our national level to keep us informed, prepared, and with suggestions for a way to be proactive rather than reactive. This is a global list. There is a saying Think global, act local. (or something like that) I think it would be beneficial to have a group that monitors national and even local proposals, (here in the US) and I would be willing to pay a membership fee or would it be better to say make a donation to the cause? Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Hello Walker and all I would be more than willing to pay and be a member of a group like this. It's not going to be long before the government or Exxon tries to get in on the act and we need to be prepared. We've been foreseeing it for six years at least, and we've already seen such moves in various places. But it's probably too late, the cat's out of the bag, we're right out of control, IMHO. Also at the local level, the worldwide community of biofuels homebrewers have developed cheap, effective and safe small-scale production methods that produce high-quality fuel and that anyone can use. There are now many kinds of independent small-scale local operations producing and using millions and millions of gallons of biofuels a year, growing fast. Most of it goes right under the official radar, nobody calculates it, nobody has any clear idea of how much it is or of quite who these people are. But they're forming active networks of grassroots-level biofuels producers in many countries, and they have the potential to expand very quickly. -- How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch In Japan it's illegal to brew your own sake, you're not allowed to own a still. Yet it's a widespread practice, lots of people in all walks of life brew their own, it's openly discussed, there are popular books about it. They don't make a serious hole in the revenues of them-with-the-licenses so it's generally ignored. What if they did start to make such a serious hole? Or started brewing large amounts of fuel ethanol so the fuel majors started taking notice, who everyone here is so careful not to risk offending? Put them all in jail? Maybe in the US, but Japan couldn't do that, the damage to society would be huge, with little or nothing gained from it. Where in the world do you not find illicit stills at work? As with all things illicit, attempts to eradicate or control it seldom if ever meet with more than 10% success, and even that's short-lived for special efforts, 5% is more the norm. Prohibition in the US wasn't exactly a resounding success, it just drove it underground and boosted organised crime. I've read that the consumption of alcohol went up, by as much as 80% some have said. The attraction of the illicit. The heavens forfend that we should ever dream of being anything but good little law-abiding economic units, uh I mean consumers - sorry, citizens, but the sort of individuals who'll make their own fuel in the first place might not see it quite that way. Maybe they'll think there are really only two laws, first, don't hurt anyone, second, don't get caught. Shocking, shocking... but can you see them all just saying yes sir? There's also a large factor at work here that wasn't a factor in the Prohibition - the homebrewers are doing good and they're right, and they know it, while Big Central biofuels doesn't have a future, or not a leading one anyway. Fuel miles are just as unsustainable as food miles,
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
In a rare event, I am going to disagree with Keith. I rarely do, because we think alike on most things. 1. I don't think comparing ourselves to moonshiners will prove useful to either the BD crowd nor the crowd that would regulate/shut us down. It's a useful rhetorical tool for the purposes of debate. 2. I agree that it is difficult to wipe out illicit activity, but here in the US, if they catch you with marijuana, they can seize your car, house and land and take you to jail. Few of us want that as a model. 3. If, through inactivity, we allow brewing to become illegal, we will be tainted in the eyes of the public. Some, of course, will see the reality of the situation, but there are still a very large number of people here in the US that believe pot makes you crazy. We don't need that label. 4. What are we afraid of? If you are not ashamed of what you are doing, you are not ashamed of people knowing about it. 5. Let's assume the big grease companies do get laws passed making it illegal to transport and store WVO. How many restaurant owners will be willing to risk jail or a fine to give us grease? Not many. Will we go around and break the locks on drums to get grease? 6. No offense to the notion, but I don't think a tiny bunch of BD's is going to roll over the US government and ExxonMobil. That's magical thinking. 7. Moving to Keith's point below, about having your head chopped of: One, I agree it would be nuts to start jumping up and down and screaming don't make laws outlawing BD production. That's asking for trouble. 8, But, I do think monitoring which laws are coming up, and if the are antithetical to home brewing, responding with well-reasoned, truthful information is a good idea. What it sounds like you are saying that we should not participate in our democratic process because someone might notice us? If there are laws coming along, we should respond. Hiding and being quiet doesn't help our cause. 9. I agree JTF is an incredibly useful device; this idea would not have germinated without it. I also don't doubt that it can help shape and inform opinion. Heck, I spent hours on it myself. But, I do think there is room for a non-NBB advocacy organization. 10. JTF has a huge amount of good information, but would it be consulted by lawmakers? I doubt it. Having constituents show up and discuss the issue with you or your staff is very powerful. If you play your cards right, they call you, instead of the NBB for BD info. 11. Funding. I'm well aware of the time and dollar commitment necessary to just run a list serve. I personally support one of the largest renewable energy websites and list servs out there. The pay a nominal hosting fee, but it doesn't even begin to cover the work I do. I do have a mortgage, food, clothes, methanol and lye to buy ;-). As much as I would like to, I can't afford to run it for free. As for whether or not a project is worthwhile based on whether it has funding, that's not a good metric. You and I both know that no one gets rich running listservs or non profits geared towards renewable anything. But someone somewhere does pay for server space, DNS and Internet connectivity for JTF. 12. Getting the word out is a good thing. There is a lot of bad information out there: How often have you heard I'd use BD but it'll ruin my filters/fuel line/injectors? It's too hard to make. It's illegal. Can't use it in cold weather and so on? 13. Some progressive governments are using BD - Arlington, Va. requires all its heavy equipment to run B20. This is the sort of positive information that would be featured. We could offer support to listers like Greg H, who has the neighbor who is threatening him for home-brewing. 14. We could sponsor teach-ins - teach newbies how to brew safely - this would benefit us in the long run as it lessens the chance of someone getting blown up. 15. You're right about the global aspect. I know we have Canucks on the list and I am sure we have Mexicanos tambien. Perhaps a regional approach would be useful. I would not be surprised if someone gets blindsided, but somehow I don't think it will be the the US Gov't or several multi billion dollar corporations. -Mike Jason and Katie wrote: Im gonna have to agree with kieth on this one. the best way to eliminate a problem with the least repercussion, is to blindside it. in our case we need to stay quiet and continue to grow so large, that when the government/corporations DO notice their margins are shrinking and they try to interfere, we'll just roll them under. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? [snip] Where in the world do you not find illicit stills at work? As with all things illicit, attempts to eradicate or control it seldom if ever meet
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Kidding. You think they'd have me? Jason and Katie wrote: Congrats on the job, but im not changing my stance. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? You guys DO know I work for the Treasury Dept.? bob allen wrote: Jason and Katie wrote: i dont give a fuzzy flying fuck about taxes, yeah, you and leona 'taxes are for little people helmsley if they want to stop me and test my fuel for dyes, ill spend my time in the can, and get right back to it when i get home. America is a great country... its the idiots at the helm that bother me. - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? There are two types of taxes for Fuel - State and Federal. All registered fuel Sellers are required to be registered with the IRS and the State they sell fuel in. They inject a dye in the fuel - Yellow for on road fuel Red for off road. I think all gasoline is taxed and not dyed. ( I think the yellow has been discontinued now.) but any way they pay a tax on every gallon sold at the pump. Ethanol and Biodiesel is the same as Dinogas and Dinodiesel in the eyes of the State and Federal officials. Some states do encourage alternate fuels by one means or another but I havent heard of any tax breaks. Now in the world of do it yourselfers it is how brave you are to avoid paying those taxes. I leave that one there. If you are talking about hybrids that use electricity the government gets the fuel side tax but would have a rough time implementing a zap tax for charging the vehicle but its not out of the question they may try. Jim Alan Petrillo wrote: I caught a piece of something on the news about the US Guvmint wanting to tax alternate fuel vehicles so they can pay their fair share of highway maintenance costs. Anyone know anything about this? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Lay low in the high grass
Hello All, My father-in-law, a diesel mechanic, has helped me build a BD processor, travelled with me from NY to Florida to get an clean, old Mercedes that just loves BD. He is a wonderful man. We differ in opinion on one particular point re: biodiesel. He says: "Lay low in the high grass." I say: "Spread the word, change the world." I just retired after teaching high school biology for 32 years. I was asked to come back, sort of as a guest speaker. I got to spend two days w. former students, now taking AP Biology.I demonstrated the basic idea of making biodiesel 1L in a PET bottle saw the glycerine split had bd as diff.stages of wash and showed that the bd I made in class wash poor quality (didn't pass the wash test).This was enthusiastically received, ... much discussion,and I left them with the assurance that I would come back to the chem. class when they knew about titration and were doing the organic chem unit. My car's license plate is BD 100. I talk to friends, acquaintences, or any one who expresses an interest in bd or any alternate energy system. I've had a few "tours" of my processing setup. Several recent posts seem to be suggesting that we "lay low" and expand as a underground force. I just am interested in the views of other list members. i.e. Do we "lay low", or "spread the word'? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Doesn't surprise me. We Americans have very little patience for the truth. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith wrote: Prohibition in the US wasn't exactly a resounding success, it just drove it underground and boosted organised crime. I've read that the consumption of alcohol went up, by as much as 80% some have said. The attraction of the illicit. Some interesting related info: In researching the history of alcohol fuel I learned the prohibition movement was primarily funded by JD Rockefeller. At the time alcohol was the dominant fuel in the US and he had found out that the byproduct of petroleum they had been pouring into rivers could be made into gasoline and used for vehicle fuels. He funded the Women's Christian Temperance Union to help make drinking alcohol illegal. They took their hatchets into bars and broke bottles and kegs and caused a big ruckus that led to the Constitutional amendment outlawing drinking alcohol. He also funded enough Congressional campaigns to get supporting legislation to shift the balance from alcohol fuel toward gasoline. By the time the new amendment overruled prohibition, Standard Oil had consolidated its market. During Jimmy Carter's presidency there was a big push for homegrown alcohol. We easily got a permit and made it in our barn with our home-built equipment. Carter sent people to see how we little guys were doing. His man liked our operation so much he hired Jock to take his still to the government sponsored alternate energy fairs and teach farmers how to make their own stills and fuel. One man came up to him after he said why alcohol was so much better than oil and told him, “If you keep talking like that you won't be around very long.” Someone told Jock he was from Shell Oil. Maybe he was also talking about Carter, who was the biggest alternate energy president we ever had. He lasted only one term, partially due to a major oil country, Iran, who took American hostages and brokered a deal to release them only after Reagan was elected. Another victory for big oil. Marilyn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Nobody really knows because nobody really monitors the news. That's another thing I would propose: subscribe to a clipping service and write a custom Google search to stay on top of what's happening. Track legislation. The last thing I would propose is to become another NBB. I was down in Pittsboro, NC doing the tour, and there was a person there who owned a large trap grease company in the Ga. area. His companion/driver let it slip that the powers that be, the ol boys in the legislature were considering some better regulation on WVO. To wit: making it neccessary to have a state license and the right equipment to collect and store it. Idle chatter? I don't know. But it didn't sound good. I'm envisioning something moveon.org, and it there is something on the table putting on my monkey suit, rounding up a few of my more literate crackpot BD friends and going down to talk to our representatives. I already have a few connection down there so we would at least get a hearing. If it were really critical I would start calling in media favors - hope to get our side into the debate. On the other hand, I don't propose raising a stink if all is quiet. Thomas Kelly wrote: Keith, I'm not sure that Mike is proposing a national campaign complete with television commercials and lobbyists well-funded with $ to grease the gears of the political process. It sounds as though he might be willing to monitor proposals that could effect BD homebrewers here in the US and keep us posted. After all, the original message to this thread was: caught a piece of something on the news about the US Guvmint wanting to tax alternate fuel vehicles so they can pay their fair share of highway maintenance costs. Anyone know anything about this? AP The first sentence has caused a great deal of discussion, but no one has answered the question: Anyone know anything about this? Is there a proposal? Who is making the proposal? We've discussed taxes on fuel, dying fuel,etc. when the question asks about taxing alternate fuel vehicles. Maybe there is a proposal to tax electric cars based on miles travelled. Commercial buses are taxed, after paying fuel tax, additional road use tax based on miles travelled in each state. The discussions have been great. I've been following them with interest. I would love to have someone keeping track of the way things are playing out at our national level to keep us informed, prepared, and with suggestions for a way to be proactive rather than reactive. This is a global list. There is a saying Think global, act local. (or something like that) I think it would be beneficial to have a group that monitors national and even local proposals, (here in the US) and I would be willing to pay a membership fee or would it be better to say make a donation to the cause? Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Hello Walker and all I would be more than willing to pay and be a member of a group like this. It's not going to be long before the government or Exxon tries to get in on the act and we need to be prepared. We've been foreseeing it for six years at least, and we've already seen such moves in various places. But it's probably too late, the cat's out of the bag, we're right out of control, IMHO. Also at the local level, the worldwide community of biofuels homebrewers have developed cheap, effective and safe small-scale production methods that produce high-quality fuel and that anyone can use. There are now many kinds of independent small-scale local operations producing and using millions and millions of gallons of biofuels a year, growing fast. Most of it goes right under the official radar, nobody calculates it, nobody has any clear idea of how much it is or of quite who these people are. But they're forming active networks of grassroots-level biofuels producers in many countries, and they have the potential to expand very quickly. -- How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch In Japan it's illegal to brew your own sake, you're not allowed to own a still. Yet it's a widespread practice, lots of people in all walks of life brew their own, it's openly discussed, there are popular books about it. They don't make a serious hole in the revenues of them-with-the-licenses so it's generally ignored. What if they did start to make such a serious hole? Or started brewing large amounts of fuel ethanol so the fuel majors started taking notice, who everyone here is so careful not to risk offending? Put them all in jail? Maybe in the US, but Japan couldn't do that, the damage to society would be huge, with little or nothing gained
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Kim, You wrote: I am trying to understand why you feel the need to have people pay to be a member of an advocacy group. I am a member of several and the membership is asked to pay for the postcards we bombard Washington with. Has bombarding Washington w. postcards been an effective way of steering national policy in a direction you are comfortable with? Tom - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Greetings, I am trying to understand why you feel the need to have people pay to be a member of an advocacy group. I am a member of several and the membership is asked to pay for the postcards we bombard Washington with. Something as simple as a yahoo group that only the management can post messages on, will work. Any time there is a problem, the membership gets out the postage and starts to mail the appropriate postcard to the proper people. What is the money for? Bright Blessings, Kim At 12:15 PM 12/2/2005, you wrote: All kidding aside, do the members of this list think the idea of an advocacy group to defend BD has merit, and more importantly would anyone pay to be a member? -Mike Doug Turner wrote: Hi Mike, Just waiting for the movie, Attack of the Grease People. It's bound to be a cult classic. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Nah, when it comes it'll be from two directions: The trap grease people will get together as soon as they really start feeling the bite from home-brewers, and get legislation passed that declares WVO dangerous and in need of special handling. This will require fairly expensive equipment and insurance the average home-brewer can't afford. There will be a few high profile lawsuits and we'll get the message and give up. This will probably be aided and abetted by Big Oil, who will get in bed with or just buy out the grease people. Oh, they'll find someone somewhere who has injured himself making BD and trumpet it all over the place. The logical thing to do would be for the homebrewers to organize now and set up an organization to counter this. Everyone will be in favor of it, but no one will be willing to part with 50.00 for dues. United we could stand, divided we'll fall. When Biodiesel is outlawed, only outlaws will make Biodiesel Mike been living in Washington DC for too long Weaver Joe Street wrote: I'm just wondering what people on this list think they will do if the winds of change blow cold on the home brew community? Suppose at some point your government decides to take strong action to discourage or prevent you from making your own fuel. I know that collectively there are a lot of us but we are spread pretty thin here and there around the planet. Solidarity amongst home brewers I'm sure doesn't account for a huge influence in any particular country or region at this point. I'm sure any of us who have invested the time, money and effort to be doing what we are doing will be more than just disappointed if legislation is enacted in favor of big energy suppliers to the detriment of our sustainability and environmental ideals. But what can we do though? I feel I am very fortunate because in my case, since I work at a university which supports my research into alternative energy solutions, I can claim I am driving a research vehicle which affords me quite a bit of latitude as far as this issue is concerned. I am just wondering if a possible solution to this potential problem might be for people like myself to create some sort of registry so that I can claim not only that I drive a research vehicle but that it is part of a worldwide fleet of such vehicles thereby strengthening not only my case but also that of everyone else registered on the site as well. Comments? Joe David Miller wrote: Joe Street wrote: Oh I thought from the previous post it meant that taxed fuel is dyed. So then on a spot inspection how is anyone to know if you are using taxed fuel or home brew anyways? (assuming it is not B100 which could be identified by smell alone) Why worry about it then? I doubt if many (bio)diesel car owners worry about it at all. Diesel car owners are such small pickins next to a company running a fleet of trucks that I've never seen or even heard of someone being tested. I know a number of them who regularly use heating oil or K1 (with the dye) in their cars without concern. I don't do it because to it's not worth saving thirty cents a gallon if it means having to drain it out of the tank
[Biofuel] Thanks list but my ISP must be bouncing my messages
Maybe if I post the ISP will notice I participate once in a while. I want to thank the list because it put me onto www.notmilk.com and it saved my life. Now, about a year later I am feeling 10 years younger and am moving on to Raw Food Vegan. I don't like being known as a lurker but a learner. Lillie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel gunks up engines in Washington State
I heard this report on NPR last week. They were interviewing some govt person about biodiesel in the ferryboat engines. All they said was that it gunked up the engines. Anybody there in Washington state have any more info on this matter? DB Fr To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel gunks up engines in Washington State
Follow up http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/249964_gbio28.html DB wrote: I heard this report on NPR last week. They were interviewing some govt person about biodiesel in the ferryboat engines. All they said was that it gunked up the engines. Anybody there in Washington state have any more info on this matter? DB Fr To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel gunks up engines in Washington State
From the PI article: The relative simplicity of making biodiesel fuel has raised concerns that amateur refiners may undermine the industry's reputation by producing fuel that's unreliable. The Environmental Protection Agency has awarded a $70,000 grant to a project called Bio-49 Degrees that is teaching technical college students in Washington and British Columbia how to refine used oil from restaurants with mini-refinery equipment made by Bruce Barbour of Bellingham. Barbour works for the state Ecology Department. The independents are not an issue for EPA, said Peter Murchie, who heads up the agency's diesel team and is co-coordinator of the West Coast Collaborative, a program that encourages production of alternative fuels. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lay low in the high grass
On Dec 3, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:My father-in-law..is a wonderful man. We differ in opinion on one particular point re: biodiesel. He says, "Lay low inthe high grass." I say, "Spread the word, change the world." My car's license plate is BD 100. I talk to friends, acquaintences,or any one who expresses an interest in bd. Several recent posts seem to be suggesting that we "lay low" andexpand as a underground force. I just am interested in the views of other list members.An interesting issue -- I have notoriously advocated the "lay low"approach, with the exception that I'm happy to discuss the IDEAof homemade biofuels with anyone. Only people that I trust (andanyone spying on my email :-() know that I've ever made it myself.As far as people expressing an interest, that would have to includethe local fire marshall, who came to one of my sister's parties yearsago and was very concerned that her little brother was makingbiodiesel, til he learned that it was in another county. Now that Ilive is HIS county, you can be sure he knows nothing about it!I admire anyone who is willing to put their neck out there vis-a-vislicense plates etc. I always figure they're either very trusting, verynaive, or else they are truly prepared to make some life sacrificesfor their beliefs. If the latter, more power to 'em..-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Thanks list and my ISP must be bouncing my messages
Maybe if I post the ISP will notice I participate once in a while. I want to thank the list because it put me onto www.notmilk.com and it saved my life. Now, about a year later I am feeling 10 years younger and am moving on to Raw Food Vegan. I don't like being known as a lurker but a learner. Lillie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Dermot posted: [snip] It's unethical to kill ANYTHING for no good reason, unethical and not sustainable. [snip] This seems to be true. all the documentaries and history ive come across about the Native American cultures allow for taking a non-human life for food reasons as long as the 'Mother' (Earth), and the taken life were shown the proper gratitude for allowing the human life to continue. there are variants culture to culture, but this is a very basic description that applies in general. i would guess there are regional similarities all over the world. THAT was ethical, nothing was unneccesarily done. what we have accepted today is totally hopeless. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Mike, It seems the UK is way aheaad of you on this one. To collect WVO over here you already need to get a waste carriers licence from the Environment Agency. And if you want to sell so much as a drop of your finished BD, you need yet another licence! Oh yes, and your oil storage facility must be fully bunded too. So good luck with your proposals, I hope you never have the mountain of red tape we got here. Bob - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Nobody really knows because nobody really monitors the news. That's another thing I would propose: subscribe to a clipping service and write a custom Google search to stay on top of what's happening. Track legislation. The last thing I would propose is to become another NBB. I was down in Pittsboro, NC doing the tour, and there was a person there who owned a large trap grease company in the Ga. area. His companion/driver let it slip that the powers that be, the ol boys in the legislature were considering some better regulation on WVO. To wit: making it neccessary to have a state license and the right equipment to collect and store it. Idle chatter? I don't know. But it didn't sound good. I'm envisioning something moveon.org, and it there is something on the table putting on my monkey suit, rounding up a few of my more literate crackpot BD friends and going down to talk to our representatives. I already have a few connection down there so we would at least get a hearing. If it were really critical I would start calling in media favors - hope to get our side into the debate. On the other hand, I don't propose raising a stink if all is quiet. Thomas Kelly wrote: Keith, I'm not sure that Mike is proposing a national campaign complete with television commercials and lobbyists well-funded with $ to grease the gears of the political process. It sounds as though he might be willing to monitor proposals that could effect BD homebrewers here in the US and keep us posted. After all, the original message to this thread was: caught a piece of something on the news about the US Guvmint wanting to tax alternate fuel vehicles so they can pay their fair share of highway maintenance costs. Anyone know anything about this? AP The first sentence has caused a great deal of discussion, but no one has answered the question: Anyone know anything about this? Is there a proposal? Who is making the proposal? We've discussed taxes on fuel, dying fuel,etc. when the question asks about taxing alternate fuel vehicles. Maybe there is a proposal to tax electric cars based on miles travelled. Commercial buses are taxed, after paying fuel tax, additional road use tax based on miles travelled in each state. The discussions have been great. I've been following them with interest. I would love to have someone keeping track of the way things are playing out at our national level to keep us informed, prepared, and with suggestions for a way to be proactive rather than reactive. This is a global list. There is a saying Think global, act local. (or something like that) I think it would be beneficial to have a group that monitors national and even local proposals, (here in the US) and I would be willing to pay a membership fee or would it be better to say make a donation to the cause? Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Hello Walker and all I would be more than willing to pay and be a member of a group like this. It's not going to be long before the government or Exxon tries to get in on the act and we need to be prepared. We've been foreseeing it for six years at least, and we've already seen such moves in various places. But it's probably too late, the cat's out of the bag, we're right out of control, IMHO. Also at the local level, the worldwide community of biofuels homebrewers have developed cheap, effective and safe small-scale production methods that produce high-quality fuel and that anyone can use. There are now many kinds of independent small-scale local operations producing and using millions and millions of gallons of biofuels a year, growing fast. Most of it goes right under the official radar, nobody calculates it, nobody has any clear idea of how much it is or of quite who these people are. But they're forming active networks of grassroots-level biofuels producers in many countries, and they have the potential to expand very quickly. -- How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take?
Re: [Biofuel] Lay low in the high grass
Greetings, I do believe that your kind of spreading the word is what we need. I think it is the talking to those on Capital Hill, face to face that is dangerous. I am not Keith, but I learned way back when that telling the truth and trying to get legislation to be reasonable doesn't work. That was a different time and a different country, but I have seen the same crap happen here. Those who support the status quo just destroyed the Brazos Literacy Volunteers of America to the point where it no longer exists. Unfortunately, they took down 8 small town groups with them. Bright Blessings, Kim At 10:52 AM 12/3/2005, you wrote: Hello All, My father-in-law, a diesel mechanic, has helped me build a BD processor, travelled with me from NY to Florida to get an clean, old Mercedes that just loves BD. He is a wonderful man. We differ in opinion on one particular point re: biodiesel. He says: Lay low in the high grass. I say: Spread the word, change the world. I just retired after teaching high school biology for 32 years. I was asked to come back, sort of as a guest speaker. I got to spend two days w. former students, now taking AP Biology. I demonstrated the basic idea of making biodiesel 1L in a PET bottle saw the glycerine split had bd as diff. stages of wash and showed that the bd I made in class wash poor quality (didn't pass the wash test). This was enthusiastically received, ... much discussion, and I left them with the assurance that I would come back to the chem. class when they knew about titration and were doing the organic chem unit. My car's license plate is BD 100. I talk to friends, acquaintences, or any one who expresses an interest in bd or any alternate energy system. I've had a few tours of my processing setup. Several recent posts seem to be suggesting that we lay low and expand as a underground force. I just am interested in the views of other list members. i.e. Do we lay low, or spread the word'? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Greetings, I am sorry you took offence, but many good grass roots based things have happened without someone getting a full time paycheck out of it. For starters, we have legal raw milk dairies in Texas. If you are planning on creating yourself a job with everyone's funds, please have the honesty to say so and tell us what you consider a reasonsable salary. A list of qualification would also be appreciated. I am not sure that anyone who snipes at honest questions is what we need to front such a movement, but I may have caught you on a bad day. Bright Blessings, Kim At 07:22 PM 12/2/2005, you wrote: Jeez, you're right! How simple! I wanted the money for myself! Let's see, I am sure we can get someone to head down to Washington DC and lobby to counter the well-paid lobbyists of the Big Oil companies! And just anyone will do, they don't need to know anything or anyone. Exxon is wasting is money with their lobbyists, as I am sure you can tell by the last energy bill. There really is no point in actually meeting with the members of congress face to face and explain to them and their staff what's going on when we can bombard Washington with postcards! And I will get right on that free phone from Verizon, so that when people or the media or congress calls there will be an actual person to answer it. May I forward the calls to you, and can you promise to be available pretty much 9-5? Thanks! I've also been innundated with offers of free domain, web and email hosting, none of which takes even a second to manage. It just runs itself! Actually, just in the time I've been writing this, several well-reasoned articles and BD safety guidlines have written themselves, edited themselves, and hopped right up on the website. Which, by the way, is not down due to technical problems, hackers or too many hits. But I guess somehow people will just find the Yahoo group if they are looking for BD info. There are always people like you assuming everyone else will shoulder the financial burden. I've been consulting in and working the non-profit area for 20 years. I know what happens to an organization when there is no funding. It dies. Garth Kim Travis wrote: Greetings, I am trying to understand why you feel the need to have people pay to be a member of an advocacy group. I am a member of several and the membership is asked to pay for the postcards we bombard Washington with. Something as simple as a yahoo group that only the management can post messages on, will work. Any time there is a problem, the membership gets out the postage and starts to mail the appropriate postcard to the proper people. What is the money for? Bright Blessings, Kim At 12:15 PM 12/2/2005, you wrote: All kidding aside, do the members of this list think the idea of an advocacy group to defend BD has merit, and more importantly would anyone pay to be a member? -Mike Doug Turner wrote: Hi Mike, Just waiting for the movie, Attack of the Grease People. It's bound to be a cult classic. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Nah, when it comes it'll be from two directions: The trap grease people will get together as soon as they really start feeling the bite from home-brewers, and get legislation passed that declares WVO dangerous and in need of special handling. This will require fairly expensive equipment and insurance the average home-brewer can't afford. There will be a few high profile lawsuits and we'll get the message and give up. This will probably be aided and abetted by Big Oil, who will get in bed with or just buy out the grease people. Oh, they'll find someone somewhere who has injured himself making BD and trumpet it all over the place. The logical thing to do would be for the homebrewers to organize now and set up an organization to counter this. Everyone will be in favor of it, but no one will be willing to part with 50.00 for dues. United we could stand, divided we'll fall. When Biodiesel is outlawed, only outlaws will make Biodiesel Mike been living in Washington DC for too long Weaver Joe Street wrote: I'm just wondering what people on this list think they will do if the winds of change blow cold on the home brew community? Suppose at some point your government decides to take strong action to discourage or prevent you from making your own fuel. I know that collectively there are a lot of us but we are spread pretty thin here and there around the planet. Solidarity amongst home brewers I'm sure doesn't account for a huge influence in any particular country or region at this point. I'm sure any of us who have invested the time, money and effort to be doing what we are doing will be more than just disappointed if
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Mike; I was going to jump on this thread DBY, but got busy -- Keith has already said most of what i was thinking. Only addng: Big Oil is already acutely aware, as is the rest of the corporatocracy -- but the grass-roots movement is already almost at the tipping point, BO is already irrelevant they know it (hence the gluttanous rush to control profit while they can). When We The People reach critical mass (world-wide, as Keith points out) on sustainability, the paradigm will shift... IF we're lucky plucky persistent willing to risk the perils of Civil Disobedience (as voiced by others here), some of Y'All may survive into that paradigm, be able to pass a future to your children G'chidren. I can wish (but i'm close to 70 -- so I doubt I'll be here for it, which saddens me) AND i can do all i can to help -- Humanity is a worthy experiment, in spite of all the flaws built in. Keep THAT faith, emulate the dung-beetle, with your eyes on the horizon. Peace Love E. Allen --- Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nobody really knows because nobody really monitors the news. That's another thing I would propose: subscribe to a clipping service and write a custom Google search to stay on top of what's happening. Track legislation. The last thing I would propose is to become another NBB. I was down in Pittsboro, NC doing the tour, and there was a person there who owned a large trap grease company in the Ga. area. His companion/driver let it slip that the powers that be, the ol boys in the legislature were considering some better regulation on WVO. To wit: making it neccessary to have a state license and the right equipment to collect and store it. Idle chatter? I don't know. But it didn't sound good. I'm envisioning something moveon.org, and it there is something on the table putting on my monkey suit, rounding up a few of my more literate crackpot BD friends and going down to talk to our representatives. I already have a few connection down there so we would at least get a hearing. If it were really critical I would start calling in media favors - hope to get our side into the debate. On the other hand, I don't propose raising a stink if all is quiet. Thomas Kelly wrote: Keith, I'm not sure that Mike is proposing a national campaign complete with television commercials and lobbyists well-funded with $ to grease the gears of the political process. It sounds as though he might be willing to monitor proposals that could effect BD homebrewers here in the US and keep us posted. After all, the original message to this thread was: caught a piece of something on the news about the US Guvmint wanting to tax alternate fuel vehicles so they can pay their fair share of highway maintenance costs. Anyone know anything about this? AP The first sentence has caused a great deal of discussion, but no one has answered the question: Anyone know anything about this? Is there a proposal? Who is making the proposal? We've discussed taxes on fuel, dying fuel,etc. when the question asks about taxing alternate fuel vehicles. Maybe there is a proposal to tax electric cars based on miles travelled. Commercial buses are taxed, after paying fuel tax, additional road use tax based on miles travelled in each state. The discussions have been great. I've been following them with interest. I would love to have someone keeping track of the way things are playing out at our national level to keep us informed, prepared, and with suggestions for a way to be proactive rather than reactive. This is a global list. There is a saying Think global, act local. (or something like that) I think it would be beneficial to have a group that monitors national and even local proposals, (here in the US) and I would be willing to pay a membership fee or would it be better to say make a donation to the cause? Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Hello Walker and all I would be more than willing to pay and be a member of a group like this. It's not going to be long before the government or Exxon tries to get in on the act and we need to be prepared. We've been foreseeing it for six years at least, and we've already seen such moves in various places. But it's probably too late, the cat's out of the bag, we're right out of control, IMHO. Also at the local level, the worldwide community of biofuels homebrewers have developed cheap, effective and safe small-scale production methods that produce high-quality fuel and that anyone can use. There are now many kinds of independent
Re: [Biofuel] democracy now: chavez to give the us cheap oil topoorfolks
We need a class struggle here in the bad old USA, i doubt it would do any good to Venezuela, sapping the energy like that, but the class gap needs to be either closed or become so rampantly obvious that someone will do something about it. - Original Message - From: francisco j burgos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] democracy now: chavez to give the us cheap oil topoorfolks Dear sir: if I were a poor american I would agree 100% with you, but I am a venezuelan and Mr. Chavez is giving away our wealth with out even consulting the venezuelan congress... besides he is planting the seed of class hate and class strugle in USA. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Greetings, If you are watching what is happening on the pesticide testing on children, forum, yes, we are making a big difference. In Texas, we now have legal raw milk, due to such campaignes. Move on is an organization that gets the people out to write to congress and it is working. When enough people write letters, the congressmen get worried about re-election. Bright Blessings, Kim At 11:52 AM 12/3/2005, you wrote: Kim, You wrote: I am trying to understand why you feel the need to have people pay to be a member of an advocacy group. I am a member of several and the membership is asked to pay for the postcards we bombard Washington with. Has bombarding Washington w. postcards been an effective way of steering national policy in a direction you are comfortable with? Tom - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Greetings, I am trying to understand why you feel the need to have people pay to be a member of an advocacy group. I am a member of several and the membership is asked to pay for the postcards we bombard Washington with. Something as simple as a yahoo group that only the management can post messages on, will work. Any time there is a problem, the membership gets out the postage and starts to mail the appropriate postcard to the proper people. What is the money for? Bright Blessings, Kim At 12:15 PM 12/2/2005, you wrote: All kidding aside, do the members of this list think the idea of an advocacy group to defend BD has merit, and more importantly would anyone pay to be a member? -Mike Doug Turner wrote: Hi Mike, Just waiting for the movie, Attack of the Grease People. It's bound to be a cult classic. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? Nah, when it comes it'll be from two directions: The trap grease people will get together as soon as they really start feeling the bite from home-brewers, and get legislation passed that declares WVO dangerous and in need of special handling. This will require fairly expensive equipment and insurance the average home-brewer can't afford. There will be a few high profile lawsuits and we'll get the message and give up. This will probably be aided and abetted by Big Oil, who will get in bed with or just buy out the grease people. Oh, they'll find someone somewhere who has injured himself making BD and trumpet it all over the place. The logical thing to do would be for the homebrewers to organize now and set up an organization to counter this. Everyone will be in favor of it, but no one will be willing to part with 50.00 for dues. United we could stand, divided we'll fall. When Biodiesel is outlawed, only outlaws will make Biodiesel Mike been living in Washington DC for too long Weaver Joe Street wrote: I'm just wondering what people on this list think they will do if the winds of change blow cold on the home brew community? Suppose at some point your government decides to take strong action to discourage or prevent you from making your own fuel. I know that collectively there are a lot of us but we are spread pretty thin here and there around the planet. Solidarity amongst home brewers I'm sure doesn't account for a huge influence in any particular country or region at this point. I'm sure any of us who have invested the time, money and effort to be doing what we are doing will be more than just disappointed if legislation is enacted in favor of big energy suppliers to the detriment of our sustainability and environmental ideals. But what can we do though? I feel I am very fortunate because in my case, since I work at a university which supports my research into alternative energy solutions, I can claim I am driving a research vehicle which affords me quite a bit of latitude as far as this issue is concerned. I am just wondering if a possible solution to this potential problem might be for people like myself to create some sort of registry so that I can claim not only that I drive a research vehicle but that it is part of a worldwide fleet of such vehicles thereby strengthening not only my case but also that of everyone else registered on the site as well. Comments? Joe David Miller wrote: Joe Street wrote: Oh I thought from the previous post it meant that taxed fuel is dyed. So then on a spot inspection how is anyone to know if you are using taxed fuel or home brew anyways? (assuming it is
Re: [Biofuel] Lay low in the high grass
I tend to lay low .. I'll talk theory with anyone but I rarely stand up and state that I DO THAT!! I'm a practitioner of many alternative healing modalities and work mostly on animals .. but the majority of modalities cross species lines easily (herbs can be iffy). If a modality works on animals and infants, you can be sure that it works because the placebo effect just doesn't work with them .. you can't convince a dog he's getting well with a sugar pill. Because of what I do, for protection, I became an ordained minister in a healing ministry about 10 years ago .. and I'm also on various other lists that deal in areas of my interests. If I have cancer, I will take herbs and smear that infamous black salve on my body .. but I know the ingredients, I can make it my self, but (it's easier) if I purchase it at cost from another group member. If I have an infection I will be taking CS Colloidal Silver (home made - low ppm - with only distilled water). I know when to mix it with DMSO or MSM and why. I also know that Urine (your own) works better and faster, both internally and externally for an extremely long, single spaced, double sided, list of conditions and dis-eases. I also believe it's better for me to run for my life if ever mandatory, forced vaccinations becomes law .. and they are working on that one. Right now the World Health Organization is walking into African villages with armed escorts and forcing the villages into lines for vaccinations .. this isn't some sort of talk of the crazies .. it's real. Over the years I have watched the powers that be in various positions of power, lobby effectively, and have laws passed that have closed down companies that make various herbal remedies .. .. and at present, the herbalist from the former Alpha and Omega, is serving 3 years in jail and has given up his right to ever work in his field again. Financial constraints limited his ability to fight against a unlimited budget for the prosecution. The interesting thing about Alpha and Omega, is their products worked and worked well and they never made any medical claim about their own products. They did publish pages after pages of personal testimonies from people who had used their products. .. also another interesting thing is that the site is still up, the testimonies are still there, the products are still being sold .. but they no longer work .. .. it is suspected by those of us who are paranoid that those who financed the legal action against Alpha and Omega have taken over the daily operations of the company and are preceding as before against the unsuspecting just to prove that it doesn't work. In my state, it is presently illegal for me to even touch a dog (even at the expressed wish of the owner) unless I am approved by a vet .. laws have been passed that give all the power over the health affairs of an animal to licensed veterinarians .. these include chiropractic, acupuncture, massage .. even Telepathic Animal Communication .. as if 99.9% vets even had a clue about that one. I no longer charge for what I do .. I charge for my time. Another healing practitioner and I have started an Animal Kinship ministry .. we meet once a month and our service includes a guest speaker followed by .. something .. a short prayer .. an animal blessing .. We also ask a donation at the door to cover any fee our speaker my require and to pay a small rent on our facility. We are now covered under a 501C (non-profit status) and are allowed to actually pay ourselves a salary .. although we haven't reached a level were our salary exceeds our gas and mileage. I absolutely never expected that I'd end up actually preaching but we have reached such a critical point that it seems to be the only way I won't ultimately end up in jail. Keith is doing it right by publishing exactly the what and how in making biodiesel .. he's not holding back information, he isn't making it to sell .. and although I'd think that he does, also I'm a late arrival to the list .. I'd have to check but I think less than a year .. I don't believe I've ever read that he does make his own. Pat is doing it right by publishing exactly what the ingredients are that go into making the herbal tonic mix and the black salve mix to eliminate cancer in your body and/or the body of your animal. .. we are an experimental group trying and sharing our results. SilverPets are doing it right by opening discussing what (individually) each has tried and what has worked .. No one is a (claimed) professional in any one of these fields and no one is charging a fee for the information. I'm not sure exactly how we could make biodiesel a religion, but the way things are going that may be worth looking into .. at least (US) we still have separation of church and state. and you can bet that if homebrew makes a dent in the pockets of dino fuel, the laws will begin .. and the enforcement squads will start.
[Biofuel] Lie Low -You Can't Successfully fight an Enemy You Haven't Correctly Identified
Just some information I've had in a file. While this is the AVMA, it also includes the AMA in the information. There is very big money behind any movement designed to stop any attempt toward any individual and/or group of individuals who would or could hinder control and/or profits. There has been a strong attempt at stopping this, but from where I sit it hasn't been successful. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ You Can't Successfully fight an Enemy You Haven't Correctly Identified Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:28:08 - The following is message I have posted to other lists regarding the AVMA Practice Act that I am hoping might motivate some activism: Bayer/Aventis, Phizer, Novartis/Ciba-Geigy, Merck/Merial, Fort Dodge are 5 of the 8 founding sponsors of AVMA National Commission on Veterinary Economic Issues-the MONEY BEHIND THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION. And the manufacturers of most of the psycho-tropic drugs listed for treating behavior in children that are prescribed, and intended to be prescribed, cross-species to pets. The Pharmaceutical Industry and their Chemical Industry cohorts have been scripting Federal and State legislature policies for the past 10 years with increasing effort/money success. BayerUSA alone has 3 in-house lobby businesses. From Forbes Magazine Fortune 500 April 16, 2001 the gross profits of the 10 biggest US drug companies increased in 2001 by 33%. Phizer was #1 with net $7.8 billion profit, Merck 2nd net $7.3 billion From 1997-2001 for federal elections the Drug Industry spent $403 million in lobbying-not including advertising and grass roots lobbying. Federal campaign spending alone for 1999-2000 was $262 million. Just before the Nov. 2000 elections they funneled $10 million to US Chamber of Commerce to place ads for candidates they'd chosen to win, and negative ads against those they didn't see as supporting their interests. And etc. http://www.citizen.org/documents/drugbriefingbk.pdf The Drug Industry has a revolving door into the Administration, Congress, and Dept of Agriculture. State Depts of Agriculture are particularly targeted by AAFCO Pharmaceutical/Chemical Lobby. Senator Wayne Allard (R) (one time private practice vet) CO featured speaker at the March 1st 2003 Chicago AVMA informal meeting, claimed he would do all in his power to influence passage of the Proposed Vet Practice Act at the State (all states) and those targeted to Federal level. (posted at AVMA site as part of meeting highlights/summary,) http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/mar03/030301i.asp The Pharmaceutical Industry OWNS human/animal medical education. Just do a simple search on the funding of the 37 veterinary colleges. They are the primary source for student financial aid, grants and loans. They fund the research. Researchers at these Institutions enjoy financial bonuses and the opportunity to invest -or are given the bonus of stock payment-in the companies they are performing research for. It behooves them to have successful research conclusions. The Pharmaceutical Industry sets the curriculum. By having the FDA approve cross-species prescribing, they kill 2 birds with 1 stone, approved human drugs-and those proven to be less than successful in the human market - can now be dumped into our animals - legally. In spite of the horrific maiming, pain death they may cause. The Pharmaceutical Industry has turned the medical consumer market into its private experimental laboratory - legally. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR CORPORATIONS AND SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS-much less FOREIGN ENTITIES, i.e. German Bayer and Novartis - TO REWRITE US Constitutional Federal and State Bill of Rights Laws. Most states have in their BIll of Rights Post Facto Laws to protect their citizens from the rewriting or writing of new law to supercede existing law, to suit special interest groups, those laws that guarantee their citizens' inalienable rights. Do some research on your State Constitution and Bill of Rights - not just the current proposed Vet Practice Act. . You might call for the State Attorney General to INVESTIGATE the Pharmacuetical Industry's tampering with your Bill of Rights - you might imply as was done with the AMA, that the alliance of the AVMA with the Pharmaceutical Industry is SUBVERSIVE, represents a CONFLICT OF INTEREST, challenges anti-trust and monopoly laws. How about a CLass Action Suit , Congressional Investigation. What the hell are 2 German companies doing writting/rewritting US Laws? The AVMA is not a US association - It is a North American trade association including Canada with Canadians on its Board of Directors. So in addition to 2 German Corps. writting US Law we now also have Canadians. Would be
[Biofuel] Kim - off topic
Thanks .. I joined .. and it seems to help re-align my focus. I've also sent your link to others I thought may be interested. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] off topic Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 12:49:15 -0600 Greetings, An unusual day, something positive on my email with out a price tag. Fun to look at if nothing else. Bright Blessings, Kim http://www.gogratitude.com/masterkey/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Your Tax dollars at work
LIBERAL PLAN TO REMOVE THE CHRIST FROM CHRISTMAS AND MAKE IT X-MAS. My fellow American, I have learned today that the Liberals in Congress are secretly plotting to take Jesus, the Christ, out of Christmas and change the holiday's name to X-mas. As we all know, X is simply shorthand for X-rated, and if these godless secular humanist liberals aren't stopped, soon the birthday of Christ will become a sex-drenched extragaganza. Your children will subjected to topless elves, video sex toys and a parade of naked X-mas characters. ONLY YOU CAN STOP THIS ATTACK ON JESUS. YOU MUST DONATE TO THE KEEP THE CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS PAC SO WE CAN SPREAD THE WORD. EVEN MORE IMPORTANLY, YOU MUST SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL REPUBLICAN IN THE UPCOMING PRIMARIES. God bless, Karl Rove Ok , Sorry to bring this thread back to life but I was away for awhile. This is just s wrong I gotta get my 2 cents in. 1) X-mas is short hand, X= Cross = Christ + mas = Christmas I remember it being written this way before the word liberal was used to describe a strong Democrat or opposite of Conservative. 2) Just when was Christ ever in Christmas anyway? The holiday was created by Catholics to convert large groups of Pagans to catholics by taking Pagan traditions and celebrations and calling them Christs Mass. They created a PHONY birthday for Christ so it would coincide (just after) with the winter solstice wherein these Pagan traditions revolved. The whole deal is more Catholics meant more Money in the church and more power to convert more Catholics. Rove is using this same ages old tactic to create more REPULICHRISTIANS whereby more money whereby more power to... - (this part scares me) I don't care if you are Catholic and love your holiday or if you are anything else and love the holiday - the point is the religious right thinks that they have a God given agenda to stomp on anyone that disagrees on them and their agenda. The sad part is, if Christ came back and didn't agree with them he might get put on the cross again. In summary religion is a bigger business than oil. Sorry I digress Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel gunks up engines in Washington State
Thanks Mike I kinda figured it was a temperature problem. It's nice to know for sure,DB - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel gunks up engines in Washington State Follow up http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/249964_gbio28.html DB wrote: I heard this report on NPR last week. They were interviewing some govt person about biodiesel in the ferryboat engines. All they said was that it gunked up the engines. Anybody there in Washington state have any more info on this matter? DB Fr To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re viruses at the list
Dear all I'm sorry about this, it's happened a few times recently that viruses have got through to the list membership. It shouldn't have happened, the list server is set to convert all code to ascii and to reject all attachments, but there seems to be a hole in the Mailman software and a few viruses have slipped through anyway. It is a little strange that they've all purported to come from either me or Midori at Journey to Forever, but it has nothing to do with us nonetheless. Viruses steal other people's addresses and use them as a false sender's address, and there's no way of stopping it. Our computers are not sending out viruses. The list's host service has now added an extra layer of virus protection covering the entire Biofuel list, and that should help. They don't normally do that because it takes extra bandwidth, it's only the Biofuel list that has this service. Beyond that, we're working on it, but hopefully there shouldn't be any more viruses. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Thanks list and my ISP must be bouncing my messages
Hi Lillie We haven't forgotten you. Or I haven't anyway. Maybe if I post the ISP will notice I participate once in a while. I see you got bounced twice, sorry about that. FYI, this is the info the List administration sends to people who ask: Your Biofuel list subscription has bounced. That means many list emails sent to you have been returned, which delays deliveries to other list members. At a certain point the list server automatically stops sending you any further list messages, and sends you three advisory emails over the next week or so with information on reactivating your membership (by clicking on a link). If there's no response to these emails the server unsubscribes you from the list. We have cleared your subscription so you will be receiving list emails again and can post messages. But, as with all mailing lists, managing your subscription is your responsibility. You should check with your ISP to find out what is causing these bounces. HTH. I want to thank the list because it put me onto www.notmilk.com and it saved my life. Now, about a year later I am feeling 10 years younger and am moving on to Raw Food Vegan. That's wonderful Lillie! :-) But who'd've thought such a thing would happen at a biofuels list??? I'm amazed. I don't like being known as a lurker but a learner. You're not a lurker. Anyway, we know quite a lot about lurkers on the list. We managed to get quite a few hundred of them to write to us a bit over a year ago when the list left Yahoo. It's an extraordinary collection of emails, we should take the names and addresses off and publish it. Really we should, it deserves it. Enough for now to say that just because they're lurkers definitely doesn't mean that they're necessarily inactive or passive. I'd guess there's as much action and activism, over a wide range, among the lurkers as there is among the posters. I mean, here's you saying you went and saved your life, good heavens. Lurking? Naah, list members can do whatever they like, and welcome. Regards Keith Lillie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] PANUPS: The 21st Anniversary of the Bhopal Pesticide Plant Explosion
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:58:41 GMT From: Pesticide Action Network North America [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PANUPS: The 21st Anniversary of the Bhopal Pesticide Plant Explosion http://www.panna.orgHome http://www.panna.org/resources/resources.htmlResource Library http://www.panna.org/campaigns/campaigns.htmlCampaigns and Projects http://ga4.org/pesticideactionnet/home.htmlAct Now Greetings, PANUPS Special Edition: International Day of No Pesticide Use* The 21st Anniversary of the Bhopal Pesticide Plant Explosion December 2, 2005 December 3rd marks the 21st anniversary of the deadly gas leak from a pesticide plant in Bhopal, India, that took more than 15,000 lives. Today, former CEO Warren Anderson is a fugitive from the law. Wanted on charges of manslaughter, he has students, nuns, investors, and an enraged fisherwoman from Texas demanding accountability. Anderson was the CEO of Union Carbide in 1984 when its poorly maintained pesticide factory exploded in Bhopal, filling the streets of the city with toxic clouds of methyl isocyanate gas. In those apocalyptic moments no one knew what was happening. People simply started dying in the most hideous ways. Some vomited uncontrollably, went into convulsions and fell dead. Others choked to death, drowning in their own body fluids, the Bhopal Medical Appeal reported. The Indian government charged Anderson and Union Carbide with manslaughter for killing 15,000 people, and claimed damages for injuries to 100,000 more. Union Carbide is now a fully owned subsidiary of Dow Chemical (NYSE: DOW). Twenty one years after the explosion, Anderson has yet to appear for his criminal trial in India. Meanwhile, the citizens of Bhopal who survived that ghoulish night continue to die not only from the long-term effects of continuing contamination, but also from the poverty that comes from being too sick to support a family. Survivors of the Bhopal gas leak are demanding that Anderson and Dow face trial, clean up the toxic site, pay for medical treatment and compensation for illnesses, and provide economic rehabilitation for those whose ability to work has been affected. At the heart of Dow and Anderson's impunity is the question of who is responsible for keeping corporations accountable to the law. When individuals harm other people, society protects itself by sending them to jail. Corporations are capable of inflicting harm on a much greater scale than any one individual could -- and yet public institutions are failing to protect society from corporate crime. Warren Anderson may be a fugitive, but he has the U.S. government on his side. A freedom of information act request in 2004 revealed that the U.S. State Department denied India's extradition order after the U.S. Department of Commerce joined Union Carbide in pleading on Anderson's behalf. As governments fail to protect society from corporate crimes, citizen groups are stepping into the gap to demand justice. The international student network Students for Bhopal is marking the 21st anniversary of the disaster by delivering life-sized of posters of Bhopal survivors to Dow Chemical board members, Dow facilities, and university administrators who accept funding from the corporation. Captioned, Torture Me, the posters tell the stories of people like Mehboob Bi, a widow who lost her husband to gas poisoning and then had her house seized by moneylenders. When her daughters were small and she had nothing to feed them, Mehboob Bi used to give them water at night to fill their stomachs, not knowing it was unsafe. Afterwards I came to know that in many places the well water has been poisoned by that factory, the same cursed place that tried to kill us all with gas, she states. Dow Chemical shareholders are also voicing concerns regarding the company's failure to address Bhopal chemical disaster. In November 2005, The New York State Common Retirement Fund, the New York City Fire Department Pension Fund, Amnesty International USA, Boston Common Asset Management, and Sisters of Mercy Regional Community of Detroit Charitable Trust filed a shareholder resolution requesting that Dow Chemical disclose the true financial impact of the Bhopal survivors' outstanding social and environmental concerns. Proponents of this resolution collectively hold more than 4.5 million shares worth over $190 million. Ordinary people who have suffered from Dow's pollution in United States are recognizing that they have a tangible common bond with the Bhopal survivors. Diane Wilson, a mother of five, captained a shrimp boat off the coast of Seadrift, Texas for years until she noticed that her friends were getting cancer and the shrimp she depended on were dying. When she found out that a Dow Chemical plant was dumping lethal ethylene dichloride and vinyl chloride into her beloved bays, Wilson launched herself on a mission to stop Dow's malfeasance. Recognizing her
[Biofuel] crosspost [Micro_Cogeneration] poison+water=hydrogen
Poison + water = hydrogen. New microbial genome shows how http://www.keralanext.com/news/index.asp?id=455612 Rockville, Md.--Take a pot of scalding water, remove allthe oxygen, mix in a bit of poisonous carbon monoxide,and add a pinch of hydrogen gas. It sounds like a recipefor a witch's brew. It may be, but it is also the preferredenvironment for a microbe known as Carboxydothermus hydrogenoformans. In a paper published in the November27th issue of PLoS Genetics, a research team led by scientists at The Institute for Genomic Research (TIGR)report the determination and analysis of the completegenome sequence of this organism. Isolated from a hotspring on the Russian volcanic island of Kunashir, thismicrobe lives almost entirely on carbon monoxide. Whileconsuming this normally poisonous gas, the microbe mixesit with water, producing hydrogen gas as waste. As the world increasingly considers hydrogen as a potentialbiofuel, technology could benefit from having the genomesof such microbes. "C. hydrogenoformans is one of thefastest-growing microbes that can convert water and carbonmonoxide to hydrogen," remarks TIGR evolutionary biologistJonathan Eisen, senior author of the PLoS Genetics study."So if you're interested in making clean fuels, this microbe makes an excellent starting point." In sequencing the microbe's genome, Eisen and his collaborators discovered why C. hydrogenoformans growsmore rapidly on carbon monoxide than other species: The bug boasts at least five different forms of a proteinmachine, dubbed carbon monoxide deyhydrogenase, that isable to manipulate the poisonous gas. Each form of themachine appears to allow the organism to use carbon monoxide in a different way. Most other organisms thatlive on carbon monoxide have only one form of this machine. In other words, while other organisms may have the equivalent of a modest mixing bowl to processtheir supper of carbon monoxide, this species has averitable food processor, letting it gorge on a hotspring buffet all day. "The findings show the continuedvalue of microbial genome sequencing for exploringthe useful capabilities of the vast realm of microbiallife on Earth," says Ari Patrinos, director of theOffice of Biological and Environmental Research, partof the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Office ofScience. DOE, which funded the study, is pursuingclean fuel technologies. Little was known about this hydrogen-breathing organismbefore its genome sequence was determined. By utilizingcomputational analyses and comparison with the genomesof other organisms, the researchers have discovered several remarkable features. For example, the genomeencodes a full suite of genes for making spores, apreviously unknown talent of the microbe. Organismsthat make spores have attracted great interest recentlybecause this is a process found in the bacterium thatcauses anthrax. Sporulation allows anthrax to be usedas a bioweopon because the spores are resistant to heat,radiation, and other treatments. By comparing this genome to those of other spore-makingspecies, including the anthrax pathogen, Eisen and colleagues identified what may be the minimal biochemicamachinery necessary for any microbe to sporulate. Thus studies of this poison eating microbe may help us betterunderstand the biology of the bacterium that causes anthrax. Building off this work, TIGR scientists are leveraging the information from the genome of this organismto study the ecology of microbes living in diverse hot springs, such as those in Yellowstone National Park. Theywant to know what types of microbes are found in differenthot springs--and why. To find out, the researchers are dipping into the hot springs of Yellowstone, Russia, andother far-flung locales, to isolate and decipher the genomes of microbes found there. "What we want to have is a field guide for these microbes,like those available for birds and mammals," Eisen says."Right now, we can't even answer simple questions. Do similar hot springs, a world apart, share similar microbes?How do microbes move between hot springs? Our new work willhelp us find out." Get your daily alternative energy newsAlternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated dailyhttp://www.alternate-energy.netNext Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ SPONSORED LINKS High power High energy High Power Energy YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Micro_Cogeneration" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
[Biofuel] Globalissues.org - December 2005 Issue - WTO Hong Kong, Global diseases, World hunger, Climate change, Water
Subject: Globalissues.org - December 2005 Issue - WTO Hong Kong, Global diseases, World hunger, Climate change, Water Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 00:50:32 - From: Anup Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to the latest update of the Global Issues (http://www.globalissues.org) web site. The list below shows the latest additions to the site. In this update: --- 1) WTO Meeting in Hong Kong, December 2005 2) Diseases other than AIDS that are also global killers 3) Some more statistics on world hunger 4) Clean or Corrupt Development Mechanism To Tackle Climate Change? 5) Water, Aid, and Privatization --- 1) WTO Meeting in Hong Kong, December 2005. December 2005 will see Hong Kong host the 4th World Trade Organization (WTO) Ministerial meeting. This meeting, one of the most important in the world, will discuss a number of trade-related issues, key for developing and developed nations, alike. This meeting continues from the earlier Doha round where it was recognized that the global trading system was unequal and unfair for most of the world and so the meetings should place development at the fore. Thus this meeting is being billed as a Development Round. However, the concerns as per previous years will be the lack of transparency and democracy in the decision-making processes, and the power that the rich nations have over the poor distorting trade in their favor. The previous Ministerial meeting two years earlier collapsed as the developing world took a strong stance and stood up to the rich nations. Yet, since then, the same kinds of issues have resurfaced as rich nations appear to have hardly moved on their countless promises, pledges and obligations. http://globalissues.org/TradeRelated/FreeTrade/HongKong.asp 2) Diseases other than AIDS that are also global killers. While they do not get as much attention as AIDS, there are many preventable diseases that afflict primarily the world's poor in their millions. While AIDS is believed to have claimed over 3 million people in 2005 alone, a total of 11 million people have been estimated killed by infectious diseases. TB, malaria, measles, and others are global killers as well. These all kill far more people than wars, but attract less media attention, it seems, even though many of these diseases are easily preventable. Furthermore, it seems they also attract less attention because the people affected are from poor countries. While many of these diseases have long been recognized as resulting from poverty, some are now contributing to poverty as well. Updated some statistics http://globalissues.org/EnvIssues/Population/Disease.asp 3) Some more statistics on world hunger. Over 9 million people die worldwide each year because of hunger and malnutrition. (5 million are children, a technical equivalent of 45 jumbo jets crashing every single day, though the latter is what will often make headline news.) The direct medical cost of hunger and malnutrition is estimated at $30 billion each year (though it is estimated that every dollar invested in well-targeted interventions to reduce undernourishment and micronutrient deficiencies can yield $5 to $20 in benefits.) http://globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Poverty/Hunger/Causes.asp 4) Clean or Corrupt Development Mechanism To Tackle Climate Change? In 1997 at Kyoto, nations of the world agreed to the Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) as a way to combat climate change. CDM would assist rich countries in lightening their excessive greenhouse gas emissions as they would invest in poorer countries to help achieve sustainable development. It would help developing countries towards a less polluting form of growth while receiving much-needed investment. There were many fears at the time that the idea of CDM could be misused and allow rich countries to use the land of the poor countries to tackle their own emission problems. The Delhi-based Centre for Science and Environment reports on the way some CDM projects in India have turned out and suggests that some of these fears may indeed be coming true. The section on various flexible mechanisms to tackle climate change has been updated accordingly http://globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/Mechanisms.asp [As I write this, there is a major climate change treaty discussion going on. I have not had a chance to write about that just yet, but will hope to do so in the coming days. If you wish to be notified as soon as that happens, try out the RSS feed, described below.] 5) Water, Aid, and Privatization. As part of its aid to poor countries, the British government has given millions to British companies. These companies push for privatization of water in poor countries. Many such projects have come under heavy criticism for failing to provide universal access to a resource determined to be a fundamental right for everyone to access. Furthermore, this raises issues and concerns such as whether private companies
[Biofuel] More about Bhopal
Bhopal was and still is today an appalling atrocity, still ongoing after more than 20 years, a major crime against humanity and something we all should know about. And be outraged about. The bald, bare facts are bad enough, but the full picture in all its sickening detail is far worse, and it's important to get the full picture. I hope your stomach is strong. - Though the design of the methyl isocyanate (MIC) unit at Bhopal was based on Union Carbide's West Virginia plant, grossly lower standards were employed in the selection of construction material, monitoring devices and safety systems. - Union Carbide wanted to save money. Accidental leaks from all the Bhopal units were frequent, and operators and workers were regularly exposed to different substances. The factory was running at a loss. In November 1984 the most important safety systems were either closed down or not functioning. - Between 1980 and 1984 the work crew of the MIC unit was halved from 12 to six workers, the maintenance crew from six to two workers. On December 26, 1981 a plant operator was killed by a phosgene gas leak. Another phosgene leak in January 1982 severely injured 28 workers and in October the same year MIC escaped from a broken valve and four workers were exposed to the chemical. The senior officials of the corporation, privy to a business confidential safety audit in May 1982, were well aware of 61 hazards, 30 of them major and 11 in the dangerous phosgene/MIC units. Remedial measures were then taken at Union Carbide's identical MIC plant in West Virginia but not in Bhopal. In Bhopal, prior to the disaster, environmental safety concerns by private citizens were responded to by legal threats from the company and repressive managerial measures were employed against workers who raised occupational health concerns. - Secret Union Carbide documents obtained by discovery during a class action suit brought by survivors against the company in New York, reveal that the technology used at the fatal Bhopal factory - including the crucial units manufacturing carbon monoxide and methyl isocyanate (MIC) - was unproven, and that the company knew it would pose unknown risks. The corporation knew the danger, but regarded it as an acceptable business risk. - Senior Carbide officials, including ex-CEO Warren Anderson, not only knew about design defects and potential safety issues with the Bhopal factory, they actually authorised them. - On the night of the disaster, water (that was being used for washing the lines) entered the tank containing MIC through leaking valves. The refrigeration unit, which should have kept the MIC close to zero degrees centigrade, had been shut off by the company officials to save on electricity bills. The entrance of water in the tank, full of MIC at ambient temperature triggered off an exothermic runaway reaction an consequently the release of 27 tons of the lethal gas mixture. The safety systems, which in any case were not designed for such a runaway situation, were non-functioning and under repair. Lest the neighborhood community be unduly alarmed, the siren in the factory had been switched off. Poison clouds from the Union Carbide factory enveloped an arc of over 20 square kilometers before the residents could run away from its deadly hold. - People woke up coughing, gasping for breath, their eyes burning. Many fell dead as they ran. Others succumbed at the hospitals where doctors were overwhelmed by the numbers and lacked information on the nature of the poisoning. By the third day of the disaster, an estimated 8,000 people had died from direct exposure to the gases and a further 500,000 were injured. Today, the number of deaths stands at 20,000. Of the approximately 520,000 people exposed to the poisonous gases, an estimated 120,000 remain chronically ill. - UC/Dow has ever since refused to provide the technical information required to treat the injured, claiming it is a trade secret. - You'd think that by now the survivors would have received proper medical care, that they'd have been adequately compensated for their loss and their suffering, that somebody would have had to answer in court for what was done to them. On all counts, you'd be wrong. UC/Dow's compensation amounted to 7¢ a day, for 18 years of suffering. On 7¢ a day they've had to struggle against pain, breathlessness, giddiness, numb limbs, aching bodies, fevers, nausea, brain damage, cancers, anxiety attacks, menstrual chaos, depression and mental illness. Thirty people still die every month from the effects of the gas. - Meanwhile the drinking water of the same communities that were hit in 1984 is being poisoned by cancer- and birth-defect causing chemicals that lie in the open in the derelict factory, or were dumped on waste ground by the company for up to ten years after the disaster. Greenpeace found mercury at levels up to 6 million times what could have been
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada
Hey Felix, I'm interested. Where abouts are you in Canada? I'd like more details on the truck and the cars. SteveSteve Reimer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in CanadaDate: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:23:14 -0500 Happy day Steve! A neighbor has a full-size (dodge cummins I believe)one for sale... would you like me to get more info on it? Peace Good luck! Felix P.S. and I have two diesel mercedes for sale, should you be interested... ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] poison+water=hydrogen
Poison + water = hydrogen. New microbial genome shows how http://www.keralanext.com/news/index.asp?id=455612 Rockville, Md.--Take a pot of scalding water, remove all the oxygen, mix in a bit of poisonous carbon monoxide, and add a pinch of hydrogen gas. It sounds like a recipe for a witch's brew. It may be, but it is also the preferred environment for a microbe known as Carboxydothermus hydrogenoformans. In a paper published in the November 27th issue of PLoS Genetics, a research team led by scientists at The Institute for Genomic Research (TIGR) report the determination and analysis of the complete genome sequence of this organism. Isolated from a hot spring on the Russian volcanic island of Kunashir, this microbe lives almost entirely on carbon monoxide. While consuming this normally poisonous gas, the microbe mixes it with water, producing hydrogen gas as waste. As the world increasingly considers hydrogen as a potential biofuel, technology could benefit from having the genomes of such microbes. C. hydrogenoformans is one of the fastest-growing microbes that can convert water and carbon monoxide to hydrogen, remarks TIGR evolutionary biologist Jonathan Eisen, senior author of the PLoS Genetics study. So if you're interested in making clean fuels, this microbe makes an excellent starting point. In sequencing the microbe's genome, Eisen and his collaborators discovered why C. hydrogenoformans grows more rapidly on carbon monoxide than other species: The bug boasts at least five different forms of a protein machine, dubbed carbon monoxide deyhydrogenase, that is able to manipulate the poisonous gas. Each form of the machine appears to allow the organism to use carbon monoxide in a different way. Most other organisms that live on carbon monoxide have only one form of this machine. In other words, while other organisms may have the equivalent of a modest mixing bowl to process their supper of carbon monoxide, this species has a veritable food processor, letting it gorge on a hot spring buffet all day. The findings show the continued value of microbial genome sequencing for exploring the useful capabilities of the vast realm of microbial life on Earth, says Ari Patrinos, director of the Office of Biological and Environmental Research, part of the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Office of Science. DOE, which funded the study, is pursuing clean fuel technologies. Little was known about this hydrogen-breathing organism before its genome sequence was determined. By utilizing computational analyses and comparison with the genomes of other organisms, the researchers have discovered several remarkable features. For example, the genome encodes a full suite of genes for making spores, a previously unknown talent of the microbe. Organisms that make spores have attracted great interest recently because this is a process found in the bacterium that causes anthrax. Sporulation allows anthrax to be used as a bioweopon because the spores are resistant to heat, radiation, and other treatments. By comparing this genome to those of other spore-making species, including the anthrax pathogen, Eisen and colleagues identified what may be the minimal biochemica machinery necessary for any microbe to sporulate. Thus studies of this poison eating microbe may help us better understand the biology of the bacterium that causes anthrax. Building off this work, TIGR scientists are leveraging the information from the genome of this organism to study the ecology of microbes living in diverse hot springs, such as those in Yellowstone National Park. They want to know what types of microbes are found in different hot springs--and why. To find out, the researchers are dipping into the hot springs of Yellowstone, Russia, and other far-flung locales, to isolate and decipher the genomes of microbes found there. What we want to have is a field guide for these microbes, like those available for birds and mammals, Eisen says. Right now, we can't even answer simple questions. Do similar hot springs, a world apart, share similar microbes? How do microbes move between hot springs? Our new work will help us find out. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
