date:20060524

Hi Tom;

Your post made it to the list.  There is a switch for self delivery did 
you inadvetantly turn it off lately when changing settings for the list 
server?

Anyways Ken says zeolite once in use will reliably only adsorb more like 
10% of it's weight in water.
Sorry I thought you were running a vacuum processor like me.  Yes the 
line from the tank must be insulated.  It is handy to insert a 
thermometer beneath this insulation to monitor vapour temperature while 
things proceed.  A molecular sieve is normally fitted with a heated and 
insulated jacket which allows it to be regenerated in situ using the 
vacuum system to assist drying. Often these are used to prevent oil from 
a mechanical pump backstreaming under molecular flow conditions ( below 
50 millitorr as a general rule but depends on geometries) into the rest 
of the vacuum system.  In that case the sieve is fitted just upstream of 
the pump.  In our case I would put it just above the condenser at a 
point where vapours can flow vertically downward through it.  If I 
really wanted to be clever I could build a fractionating column and use 
the zeolite beads as the fractionating media and kill two birds with one 
stone.
The process would involve recovering methanol and then as a final step 
the trap would be heated and the vacuum pump used to dry the zeolite. 
The water would then precipitate out and be collected in a separate 
container from the methanol.  The actual amount of water removed would 
then be known. Process endpoint would be decided by an improvement in 
the vacuum at a fixed pumping rate.

Best regards.

Let us know what you learn.

Joe

Thomas Kelly wrote:

 Joe,
  I got your response, but my post never appeared in my mail nor did any 
 response w. numbers? from Ken.
 Maybe they'll show up in my spam trap later.
 
 25 lbs (11.2 Kg) of 3A molecular sieve arrived a little while ago.
 
 You wrote:
 You  could put the seives in a trap upstream of your condenser. 
 
  Run the vapors through the sieve? Won't they cool and condense? I had 
 to insulate the short tube leading to the condenser because methanol was 
 condensing in the line before the condenser.
 
 Also:
 If the trap  is fitted with heater you can then heat them in situ with 
 vacuum and dry  them in place later ...
 
 If you are talking about regenerating the zeolite, I'm thinking of a 
 solar oven ...  suggested by Todd. I have plans, materials, etc. Seems 
 rather simple enough  also, perhaps, too good to be true?
 
  Quite a bit of interesting stuff includes using vacuum pumps. I don't 
 know how to use one ...  that is, apply it to anything.  There's a vacuum 
 pump on sale at Harbor Freight for under $20 US. Venturi-type vacuum pump 
 removes water from air conditioning systems. .. produces a vacuum of 
 28.3 of mercury  at sea level w. 90 psi.   1/4 NPT.  $15.99  (Same w. 
 1/2 connector $16.99). Do I need something better than a $20 pump to 
 generate vacuum to help dry my WVO or for what you are suggesting here?
   Always good to hear from you. I hope Ken's numbers come through. I'd 
 like to see them.
 Tom
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 3A molecular Sieve and Methanol recovery
 
 
 
Great news Tom;

I'm waiting to hear what the weight change happens in your seives
material.  Let it dry first as it will be wet with methanol on the
outside but the adsorbed water will not evaporate easily so air drying
should not result in apreciable water loss as long as you don't overdo
it. Ken's numbers may seem depressing but are probably realistic.  You
could put the seives in a trap upstream of your condenser.  If the trap
is fitted with heater you can then heat them in situ with vacuum and dry
them in place later when you get everything sorted out. However the
recovered methanol may be less than 10% water (I hope) so it would be
fine.  I am holding my breath waiting to find out!

Joe

Thomas Kelly wrote:


Hello to all,
 3A molecular sieve is on its way. As I understand it, selectively
absorbs water from a water-alcohol solution thereby drying the alcohol
. sounds too good to be true.
 In my previous attempt at recovering methanol from the crude
glycerine split from the glycerine cocktail, a combination of greed and
stupidity on my part resulted in methanol w. water in it. (Water in
Recovered Methanol? 4/28/06).
 I've tweaked the condenser. I've tied the cooling of methanol
vapors ( much hot water) to my wash tank. Will use the hot water
generated by the cooling of methanol to washing a batch of BD.
 I will keep close eye on temp. and be patient. Do not allow the
temp to rise above 160F until distillation stops at this temp.
 Distillate produced in 150 - 160F range was mostly methanol. Temp
increase seemed to slow

Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

Darryl for shame!  you forgot to say ST

J;^

Darryl McMahon wrote:

 As a Québecois, albeit un des maudits anglais (currently residing in 
 Ontario but retaining property in la belle province), I resemble that 
 remark.
 
 Mike Weaver wrote:
 snip
 
As friend of mine, who is Quebecois said, if we ever do manage to 
secede from Canada we would immediately start screaming and carrying on 
about how we
unceremoniously kicked out and demand to be let back in

 
 snip
 
 Now to start digging into the Canadian Kyoto debacle of last week and 
 see where our Made in U.S.A. climate change policy is headed.  Nuts! 
 And Harper's probably still better for Canada than the previous Liberal 
 administrations.  Talk about setting the bar low.  Double nuts!
 
 One of the problems with transparency in government is what you get to see.
 


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Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS



John Beale wrote:
snip
I was thinking of getting one of
 their T-shirts and wearing it around, except that they aren't at all  
 subtle. 

You can get a great T-shirt at Rx's website

www.thepartyparty.com

It has a pic of Dick Cheney and says Dick is a killernot so subtle 
either but IMHO we are beyond subtleties at this point! :) I'm wearing 
mine today!

There are some great songs there too.  I particularly like KGBTV and 
Who's the Nigga  The HIV/AIDS one is just sobering, no humour there, 
and Imagine is extremely clever.  I wish I was that good with a wave 
editor!
Hey why don't we have a biofuels t shirt?

Cheers
Joe


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Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing

I am interested in the pics.  What is magnesol exactly? Also I just 
wanted to say FYI when you talk about crystal clarity it is anecdotal of 
course and DOES only give some info about particulate or emulsified 
contamination.  A great way to detect very small levels of this type of 
contamination is to put a sample into a glass jar and in a darkened room 
shine a laser (pointer) through the BD. The beam should not be visible 
in the liquid.  Note that this tells you nothing about trigliceride 
levels or methanol contamination but water content will give an 
indication above a certain level.
Can magnesol be used to pretreat feedstock and be left in to settle out 
with the byproduct?

Joe

Chris Bennett wrote:

 Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive 
 resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye 
 by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished, 
 seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol 
 by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult 
 to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal 
 clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been 
 able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick 
 seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear. 
 10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and 
 contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing.
 The next experiment was based on the claims that magnesol neutralises 
 FFA. I got 2 samples of WVO and filtered them. One 250ml sample was 
 treated with about 1.5g of magnesol and mixed for abut 10 minuites. The 
 magnesol was filtered out of the sample. BOTH samples were processed as 
 new oil with 3.5g lye per litre and 250ml meth per litre. After 
 seperation and cooling the pretreated sample is clear, and the byproduct 
 is a redish colour. The untreated sample shows an uncomplete reaction 
 and a very dark nearly black byproduct. I have yet to try water washing 
 these samples. It appears that the magnesol pretreatment has removed the 
 ffa content and then the oil has been able to be processed as new oil. 
 It should be quite easy to integrate into a process by adding an 
 arbitrary amount of magnesol to the feedstock and mixing, PH 
 measurements will tell you if more needs to be added.
 
 The waste magnesol, according to manufactutrers literature, can be 
 composted, put into landfill, and even used as animal feed. The magnesol 
 washing could be integrated into a semi continuous process easily, which 
 is why I am looking at it. Another comment is that when using it for 
 washing biodiesel it also seems to remove colour and odour from the 
 biodesel. The magnesol washed samples are always paler than the water 
 washed samples.
 
 If the used magnesol is put into water it instantly goes cramy white, as 
 it gives up the soaps etc that it has absorbed.
 
 Kieth, if you are interested I have some photos of the different samples 
 tested and washed. Maybe you could incorporate something aout it into 
 the JTF page? If anyone wants these photos emailed let me know! I was 
 impressed.
 
 Chris Bennett
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Constitution Party

2006-05-24 Thread bob allen

thank you Marylynn for bring this to light.  I know where my support won't be. 
No health care for 
the poor, religious definitions as part of government, no cooperation with the 
international 
community, women dying in childbirth to save the life of an ancephalic fetus, 
environmental 
protections abandoned, strip mining is just fine, and on and on...


quoted from the party platform:

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php


Health Care and Government

  The Constitution Party opposes the governmentalization and bureaucratization 
of American medicine. 
Government regulation and subsidy constitutes a threat to both the quality and 
availability of 
patient-oriented health care and treatment.



Family

The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one 
woman. The marriage 
covenant is the foundation of the family, and the family is fundamental in the 
maintenance of a 
stable, healthy and prosperous social order.



Foreign Policy

 * steadfastly oppose American participation in any form of world 
government organization, 
including any world court under United Nations auspices;
 * call upon the President, and Congress, to terminate United States 
membership in the United 
Nations, and its subsidiary organizations, and terminate U.S. participation in 
all so-called U.N. 
peace keeping operations;

Sanctity of Life

The pre-born child, whose life begins at fertilization, is a human being 
created in God's image. The 
first duty of the law is to prevent the shedding of innocent blood. It is, 
therefore, the duty of 
all civil governments to secure and to safeguard the lives of the pre-born.


Energy

We call attention to the continuing need of the United States for a sufficient 
supply of energy for 
national security.

Private property rights should be respected, and the federal government should 
not interfere with 
the development of potential energy sources, including natural gas, 
hydroelectric power, solar 
energy, wind generators, and nuclear energy.

We call for abolishing the Department of Energy.

Environment

It is our responsibility to be prudent, productive, and efficient stewards of 
God's natural 
resources. In that role, we are commanded to be fruitful and multiply, and to 
replenish the earth 
and develop it (e.g., to turn deserts into farms and wastelands into groves). 
This requires a proper 
and continuing dynamic balance between development and conservation, between 
use and preservation.




and on and on and on


Marylynn Schmidt wrote:
 A forward from another list ..
 
 Mary Lynn
 
 Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister
 ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART
 TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior 
 Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic 
 Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . 
 Homeopathy . Polarity .
 The Animal Connection Healing Modalities
 http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/
 http://allcreatureconnections.org
 
 
 
 http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin303.htm



 CAN CONSTITUTION-
 ALISTS EVER COME TOGETHER?





 By Pastor Chuck Baldwin

 May 23, 2006

 NewsWithViews.com

 Back in 2004, I gave up hope that the Republican Party would ever 
 again honestly promote a truly conservative, constitutionalist agenda 
 in Washington, D.C. Since then, the GOP has not failed my 
 expectations. It has nose-dived into a big government, big- spending, 
 socialist, Big Brother, pro-illegal invasion party that no true 
 conservative could remotely support!

 As a result, I switched my party registration to the Constitution 
 Party. The CP has a platform with which I enthusiastically agree! (See 
 their party platform) The CP also traditionally enjoys ballot access 
 in over 40 states, which makes it a very viable third party. In fact, 
 in raw numbers, the CP is the third largest party behind only the two 
 major parties.

 However, it seems very clear to me that if conservative 
 constitutionalists ever hope to regain national influence, it will 
 take a combined effort. Currently, constitutionalists are fragmented 
 and splintered to such a degree that, for all practical purposes, they 
 are entirely ineffective. Moreover, they will continue to be 
 ineffective unless they learn how to work together for a common cause.

 What is the cause? you ask. The cause should be the restoration of 
 our constitutional form of government. As far as governing principles 
 are concerned, the U.S. Constitution is the greatest source of 
 protection against the Machiavellian propensities of power-hungry men 
 that the world has ever known! If America had not had the 
 Constitution, we would have already become a third rate nation. It is 
 the Constitution which has preserved whatever semblance of freedom and 
 federalism that remains.

 Without the Constitution (together with the Declaration of 
 Independence and Bill of Rights), we would have little appreciation 
 for

Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

I heard that you could fill your tank with ditch water actually and the 
magnet would convert it to fuel on the way to the engine.  I know a guy 
who has been working on this for 40 years but the government keeps 
destroying his lab and jacking his cars.

J

Mike Weaver wrote:

 If you put a magnet around your fuel line you don't have to do the two 
 fuel tanks thing with B100.
 I read it on the Internet.
 
 Keith Addison wrote:
 
 
Hi Robert

snip

 


Keith pointed this out in another thread.
   


Do you mean this one?
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62541.html
Re: [Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nuk

Why some Americans want to join the Biofuel list and how it's changed.

snip

 


  People complain to me, but lately I've been telling them to shut
up.  I've been warning everyone around me for YEARS that we were heading
down the path toward BIG trouble.  Now it's here and I'm in no mood to
listen to their bickering.  What REALLY irritates me right now, is that
many of those who are lamenting the loudest are the same group that put
Mr. Bush and his cabal in power.  If you really want to know who those
29% are, listen to the ones complaining about high gas prices and
blaming their problems on the Arabs.  I'd lay odds that among that group
you will find the president's most ardent supporters.
   


I'd be surprised if you weren't right. With a big overlap with the 
religious far-right.

Most recent desafinado reason for wanting to join the list, or for 
doing biofuels generally, is what Bush said about America's oil 
addiction and freeing the US from its dependence on foreign oil. It 
seems to encapsulate all the previous disconnects about terrorists 
and Arabs and so on.

Quite often when they write to us they tell us things like this: 
Just like you, we are dedicated to building a better future for our 
country... That tickles me, though I suppose I am dedicated to that, 
along with the other 191 countries, or at least the people who live 
in them, and the rest of the planet too.

They're not too good at getting things right. Look at this one, just received:

 


Hello Kieth and Midori,

I am contacting you to ask you to help us spread the word about 
alternative fuels.  My name is David Bernstein and I am the 
technical advisor for http://www.beyondfossilfuel.com/. We have 
just launched our new site and are looking for some industry leading 
sites to help announce its launch.

Beyond Fossil Fuel is a site dedicated to spreading the word about 
alternative fuels/energy such as ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen and 
more.  We will be following all changes in the landscape of fuel and 
energy and try to provide the best resources for those looking to 
learn more.

Is there anyway you could link to our site or help announce 
beyondfossilfuel.com's launch? Just like you, we are dedicated to 
building a better future for our country and spreading the word is a 
great place to start.

Thank you,
David Bernstein
Technical Advisor
http://www.beyondfossilfuel.com/
   


You know what you'll find - independence from foreign oil.

It says: We must start turning away from the dependence on foreign 
fossil fuel by developing our own energy sources. This is a critical 
time to start moving away from our addiction to foreign fossil fuel 
and face up to possible change in our life style if needed.

And so on, yawn. They just want to replace the imported heroin with 
homegrown so they can go on guzzling forever, change in our life 
style my elbow.

Check the word that's being spread that I'm supposed to help with, 
it's stuff like this:

Biodiesel used in its pure form (B100) may require certain engine 
modifications to prevent gelling which would cause performance 
problems and maintenance issues. Some conversions warm the oil 
preventing the oil gelling at colder temperatures. A two fuel tank 
system is used in many of these conversions. The smaller tank holds 
petroleum diesel which is used at engine start up. After the engine 
warms up, the (B100) fuel is then warmed. At this point the driver 
switches to the larger primary tank holding the (B100). Before the 
engine is shut down the driver switches back over to the smaller 
petroleum diesel tank purging the (B100) fuel that may gel in the 
fuel lines when the engine cools.

ROFL!!!

How would I go about helping him? Start here?

Not very unusual. I suppose that's how they go about doing Bush and 
God and Arabs and so on too, it's the missing 29%, they're still 
missing even when you find them. They probably even believe Bush has 
some intention of wheening the US off foreign oil. They're not part 
of the answer, they're part of the problem.

What do you think I should tell the Technical Advisor? Shut up? :-)

Probably I shouldn't tell him anything, the usual experience is that 
there's no reply that won't make him angry. If I don't reply he'll 
probably just conclude we're obviously not patriots and we haven't

Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing

2006-05-24 Thread bob allen

Joe Street wrote:
 I am interested in the pics.  What is magnesol exactly?

good question:

MAGNESOL - (DP - 45)

  MAGNESIUM SILICATE, not much different than talc.

but

MAGNESOL® is based on a linear polyester imide resin.



I suspect you want the former, not the latter.







  Also I just
 wanted to say FYI when you talk about crystal clarity it is anecdotal of 
 course and DOES only give some info about particulate or emulsified 
 contamination.  A great way to detect very small levels of this type of 
 contamination is to put a sample into a glass jar and in a darkened room 
 shine a laser (pointer) through the BD. The beam should not be visible 
 in the liquid.  Note that this tells you nothing about trigliceride 
 levels or methanol contamination but water content will give an 
 indication above a certain level.
 Can magnesol be used to pretreat feedstock and be left in to settle out 
 with the byproduct?
 
 Joe
 
 Chris Bennett wrote:
 
 Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive 
 resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye 
 by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished, 
 seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol 
 by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult 
 to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal 
 clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been 
 able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick 
 seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear. 
 10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and 
 contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing.
 The next experiment was based on the claims that magnesol neutralises 
 FFA. I got 2 samples of WVO and filtered them. One 250ml sample was 
 treated with about 1.5g of magnesol and mixed for abut 10 minuites. The 
 magnesol was filtered out of the sample. BOTH samples were processed as 
 new oil with 3.5g lye per litre and 250ml meth per litre. After 
 seperation and cooling the pretreated sample is clear, and the byproduct 
 is a redish colour. The untreated sample shows an uncomplete reaction 
 and a very dark nearly black byproduct. I have yet to try water washing 
 these samples. It appears that the magnesol pretreatment has removed the 
 ffa content and then the oil has been able to be processed as new oil. 
 It should be quite easy to integrate into a process by adding an 
 arbitrary amount of magnesol to the feedstock and mixing, PH 
 measurements will tell you if more needs to be added.

 The waste magnesol, according to manufactutrers literature, can be 
 composted, put into landfill, and even used as animal feed. The magnesol 
 washing could be integrated into a semi continuous process easily, which 
 is why I am looking at it. Another comment is that when using it for 
 washing biodiesel it also seems to remove colour and odour from the 
 biodesel. The magnesol washed samples are always paler than the water 
 washed samples.

 If the used magnesol is put into water it instantly goes cramy white, as 
 it gives up the soaps etc that it has absorbed.

 Kieth, if you are interested I have some photos of the different samples 
 tested and washed. Maybe you could incorporate something aout it into 
 the JTF page? If anyone wants these photos emailed let me know! I was 
 impressed.

 Chris Bennett


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-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

Why don't you send him in search of Hydrogen the most wonderful fuel of all?

J

Sorry I guess I'm in a rude mood this morning.

Keith Addison wrote:
SNIP

 
 Check the word that's being spread that I'm supposed to help with, 
 it's stuff like this:
 
 Biodiesel used in its pure form (B100) may require certain engine 
 modifications to prevent gelling which would cause performance 
 problems and maintenance issues. Some conversions warm the oil 
 preventing the oil gelling at colder temperatures. A two fuel tank 
 system is used in many of these conversions. The smaller tank holds 
 petroleum diesel which is used at engine start up. After the engine 
 warms up, the (B100) fuel is then warmed. At this point the driver 
 switches to the larger primary tank holding the (B100). Before the 
 engine is shut down the driver switches back over to the smaller 
 petroleum diesel tank purging the (B100) fuel that may gel in the 
 fuel lines when the engine cools.
 
 ROFL!!!
 
 How would I go about helping him? Start here?


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Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

2006-05-24 Thread mark manchester

Here's an important tip, I have to share this with you, I got this the other
day:

If somebody comes to your door and says they're doing a survey and they want
to see your bum, don't go for it!  Do not show them your bum!  It's a scam!
I wish I'd known this, I feel like such a fool!  Dianne

Okay?  Be warned!
Jesse

 From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:34:34 -0400
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US
 
 Are you telling me that if I bought my new Escalade SUV in Canada I
 would get 20% off per litre of petrol?
 
 Nuts.
 
 I feel like such a fool.
 
 robert and benita rabello wrote:
 
 Marylynn Schmidt wrote:
 
 
 
 What has me confused is just exactly who are these 29% and where are
 they hiding?
 
 
 
 
 I think most of them are members of my family . . .
 
 
 
 You are right about no one admitting to voting for him in the last
 election and no one I've ever come across thinks he's anything but
 some bum.
 
 
 
 
 There's an awful lot of support for him among people I know.  They
 think he's a good man.  While the rest of us scratch our heads and
 wonder how REAL conservatives can hold his policies in anything other
 than contempt, the propaganda machine grinds on and the legacy of Josef
 Goebbels manufactures artificial consensus through flag waving and
 subliminal messages that pervade our media.
 
 Keith pointed this out in another thread.  As an example, I was
 listening to NPR this morning and heard a feature involving an
 evangelical minister who has been caught up in the Jack Abramoff
 scandal.  Chris Geeslin, the minister in question, believed one of his
 parishoners was a godly man because he was in the Bible and prayed
 every day.  This associate of Jack Abramoff set up a foundation that
 was intended to promote family values and return America to God as the
 Founders intended, but instead, funneled foreign money to Tom Delay.
 (Big surprise!)
 
 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5424662
 
 Return America to God as the Founders intended?
 
 What???
 
 I've a personal copy of the Constitution and NOWHERE in that
 document does it say anything about America being aligned with God.  But
 if we hear that lie enough, we begin to believe it.  The deception is
 subtle and subliminal, but pervasive.
 
 I've read somewhere else that a man cannot serve two masters.
 People like Chris Geeslin are profoundly mislead when they begin
 believing that the US can function as an agent of God, but it's among
 people like him that the support for Mr. Bush persists.  (I attend
 church with a LOT of people whose attitudes are remarkably similar.)
 
 Meanwhile, GM is offering a program for a 20 cent per liter discount
 on gasoline for all Canadian customers who buy a new GM truck or car.
 (The truck is prominently featured in the ad.)  We're buying a hybrid
 electric Camry to replace the thrice-damned GM product that dishonors
 our driveway.  The spin, counterspin and programming that goes on in our
 media really sets us up for corporate control.  We get into debt through
 manufactured dissatisfaction and live a lifestyle determined by utter
 dependency on automobiles, and all the while, our president's corporate
 friends are heaping on the profits.
 
 People complain to me, but lately I've been telling them to shut
 up.  I've been warning everyone around me for YEARS that we were heading
 down the path toward BIG trouble.  Now it's here and I'm in no mood to
 listen to their bickering.  What REALLY irritates me right now, is that
 many of those who are lamenting the loudest are the same group that put
 Mr. Bush and his cabal in power.  If you really want to know who those
 29% are, listen to the ones complaining about high gas prices and
 blaming their problems on the Arabs.  I'd lay odds that among that group
 you will find the president's most ardent supporters.
 
 robert luis rabello
 The Edge of Justice
 Adventure for Your Mind
 http://www.newadventure.ca
 
 Ranger Supercharger Project Page
 http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
 
 
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 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
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 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
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 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 
 


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[Biofuel] Copyleft of biofuel information

Ok I am ready to publish the manual and BOM for my homebrew reactor.  I 
want to offer it under some sort of copyleft license. The GPL is worded 
specifically for software but says pretty much what I wish to say about 
the open source and sharing of my published information i.e. that it can 
be freely copied and distributed but that no one can charge money for 
it. Does anyone on the list know of a public type license which is more 
appropriate for this kind of documentation?  Also I am considering how 
to bundle the information with the license so that it comes as part of 
the package or my website contains some sort of gateway so that 
acceptance of the terms is required before download is allowed.  I am 
real dumb when it comes to how to set this up and am looking for help or 
suggestions from anyone who is savvy.

Hopefully

Joe




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Re: [Biofuel] Copyleft of biofuel information

2006-05-24 Thread Fred Finch

I can get you that information... for a fee.fredOn 5/24/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:Ok I am ready to publish the manual and BOM for my homebrew reactor.I
want to offer it under some sort of copyleft license. The GPL is wordedspecifically for software but says pretty much what I wish to say aboutthe open source and sharing of my published information i.e. that it can
be freely copied and distributed but that no one can charge money forit. Does anyone on the list know of a public type license which is moreappropriate for this kind of documentation?Also I am considering how
to bundle the information with the license so that it comes as part ofthe package or my website contains some sort of gateway so thatacceptance of the terms is required before download is allowed.I amreal dumb when it comes to how to set this up and am looking for help or
suggestions from anyone who is savvy.HopefullyJoe___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing

2006-05-24 Thread logan vilas

Synthetic Magnesium Silicate Adsorbent is white fine powder, amorphous, with 
vesicular structure and huge specific area, it is an amphoteric compound 
capable of adsorbing either acid or alkali metal catalyst. It is an 
efficient refining and purifying agent in the production of polyols for its 
excellent depicking, deodorizing, potassium ion adsorbing effects and 
function as filter medium.

- Original Message - 
From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing

Joe Street wrote:
 I am interested in the pics.  What is magnesol exactly?

good question:

MAGNESOL - (DP - 45)

  MAGNESIUM SILICATE, not much different than talc.

but

MAGNESOL® is based on a linear polyester imide resin.

I suspect you want the former, not the latter.

  Also I just
 wanted to say FYI when you talk about crystal clarity it is anecdotal of
 course and DOES only give some info about particulate or emulsified
 contamination.  A great way to detect very small levels of this type of
 contamination is to put a sample into a glass jar and in a darkened room
 shine a laser (pointer) through the BD. The beam should not be visible
 in the liquid.  Note that this tells you nothing about trigliceride
 levels or methanol contamination but water content will give an
 indication above a certain level.
 Can magnesol be used to pretreat feedstock and be left in to settle out
 with the byproduct?

 Joe

 Chris Bennett wrote:

 Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive
 resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye
 by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished,
 seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol
 by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult
 to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal
 clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been
 able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick
 seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear.
 10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and
 contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing.
 The next experiment was based on the claims that magnesol neutralises
 FFA. I got 2 samples of WVO and filtered them. One 250ml sample was
 treated with about 1.5g of magnesol and mixed for abut 10 minuites. The
 magnesol was filtered out of the sample. BOTH samples were processed as
 new oil with 3.5g lye per litre and 250ml meth per litre. After
 seperation and cooling the pretreated sample is clear, and the byproduct
 is a redish colour. The untreated sample shows an uncomplete reaction
 and a very dark nearly black byproduct. I have yet to try water washing
 these samples. It appears that the magnesol pretreatment has removed the
 ffa content and then the oil has been able to be processed as new oil.
 It should be quite easy to integrate into a process by adding an
 arbitrary amount of magnesol to the feedstock and mixing, PH
 measurements will tell you if more needs to be added.

 The waste magnesol, according to manufactutrers literature, can be
 composted, put into landfill, and even used as animal feed. The magnesol
 washing could be integrated into a semi continuous process easily, which
 is why I am looking at it. Another comment is that when using it for
 washing biodiesel it also seems to remove colour and odour from the
 biodesel. The magnesol washed samples are always paler than the water
 washed samples.

 If the used magnesol is put into water it instantly goes cramy white, as
 it gives up the soaps etc that it has absorbed.

 Kieth, if you are interested I have some photos of the different samples
 tested and washed. Maybe you could incorporate something aout it into
 the JTF page? If anyone wants these photos emailed let me know! I was
 impressed.

 Chris Bennett

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-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman

Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

2006-05-24 Thread Mike Redler

If there were an innocent (albeit ignorant) question in there, I would 
be a lot more forgiving.

...but there isn't.

This person clearly has a case of Encephalomalacia with extreme back 
strain and trauma to the lower GI tract (further explanation upon request).

There is a difference between someone quietly asking if there is a fire 
in a movie theater and standing up and declaring it. I would treat this 
the same way and collectively offer him/her a heaping bowl of verbal 
whoop-ass the next time he/she pipes up.

(IMO) Anyone starting out may absorb information from this individual as 
readily as from a legitimate source and cause confusion. If it is done 
in the this forum, it could effect hundreds of  newer members.

Mike


Joe Street wrote:
 Why don't you send him in search of Hydrogen the most wonderful fuel of all?

 J

 Sorry I guess I'm in a rude mood this morning.

 Keith Addison wrote:
 SNIP

   
 Check the word that's being spread that I'm supposed to help with, 
 it's stuff like this:

 Biodiesel used in its pure form (B100) may require certain engine 
 modifications to prevent gelling which would cause performance 
 problems and maintenance issues. Some conversions warm the oil 
 preventing the oil gelling at colder temperatures. A two fuel tank 
 system is used in many of these conversions. The smaller tank holds 
 petroleum diesel which is used at engine start up. After the engine 
 warms up, the (B100) fuel is then warmed. At this point the driver 
 switches to the larger primary tank holding the (B100). Before the 
 engine is shut down the driver switches back over to the smaller 
 petroleum diesel tank purging the (B100) fuel that may gel in the 
 fuel lines when the engine cools.

 ROFL!!!

 How would I go about helping him? Start here?
 


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[Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing

2006-05-24 Thread Bruno M.

Magnesol,

with a G in it, and not Manesol like in the title ;-)
is used in the US to clear ( resfresh) frying oil and makes it last longer.
It's produced by  the Dallas Group of America Inc. www.dallasgrp.com/
It's simply a synthetic Magnesium Silicate, sold as an absorbent filter aid.

They say:   MAGNESOL® XL keeps shortening clean and free from impurities,
 which reduces the build-up of off-flavor, off-odors and color in used
 shortening. Shortening retains its fresh quality, lasts longer and 
fried
 products are always light, crisp and golden delicious. pr

And in this PDF: www.dallasgrp.com/biodiesel.pdf
you'll find on page 2 their analysis from BD cleaned with Magnesol compared 
to water washing.

So, original made for refreshing fryer oil, it's not new in de BD world,
the dallasgroup itself has already found in BD a new market and,
this UK commercial site www.ukfueltech.com/   about BD tells ...:
~~
www.ukfueltech.com/biodiesel-magnesol-dry-washing.htm
Magnesol - dry wash biodiesel clean

Water in biodiesel is not a good idea.  Most people would agree this is a 
true statement.
Yet most people continue to wash their biodiesel with water, and then go on
to dry their biodiesel after washing.

The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have
used a lot of water and a lot of time.

Saves time: purify biodiesel in minutes not hours with Magnesol
Saves energy: no drying required with Magnesol
Saves disposal costs: NO water waste with Magnesol

Magnesol is a truly exciting development in the biodiesel world.
With Magnesol you can wash your biodiesel without water and save money.

Producing ultra-pure biodiesel every time.  Achieving fuel standards
much easier than with water washing.  Saving time and money.  It sounds
to good to be true, but it isn't. Magnesol works.
Magnesol is especially formulated for biodiesel.

Magnesol is produced by the Dallas Group of America Inc.,
which is a recognized world leader in oleo-chemical purification technology.
Dallas is the only U.S. company actively marketing a commercial product
for the adsorptive purification of biodiesel.  Magnesol is developed by a 
dedicated
team of specialists.  In our opinion nobody does it better (or even comes 
close).

The companys synthetic magnesium silicate adsorbent, sold by UKFuelTech
www.ukfueltech.com/  under the trademarked name Magnesol, is an
adsorbent filter aid that ensures biodiesel quality by removing contaminants
within methyl esters.  Magnesol is though, not just any old magnesium silicate
  - it is the ONLY specially formulated product for biodiesel.
  It is the only magnesium silicate designed by experts.  Accept no substitute.

Magnesol has been subject to extensive testing, some highlights of which are:
   Free glycerin (tests prove an 85% reduction in 20 minutes)
   Water (tests prove a 60% reduction in 20 minutes)
   Methanol content reduced in test from 0.113% to 0.011% (90% reduction in 
20 minutes)
   Soap (tests prove a reduction from 651mg/kg to 4mg/kg in 20 minutes)

How good is Magnesol when used with one of our 1000 litre per hour Magnesol
...

Looks like worth a try, but were to, with the waste product ?

grts
Bruno M.   ( NFI )

At 15:57 24/05/2006, Joe wrote:
 I am interested in the pics.  What is magnesol exactly? Also I just
wanted to say FYI when you talk about crystal clarity it is anecdotal of
course and DOES only give some info about particulate or emulsified
contamination.  A great way to detect very small levels of this type of
contamination is to put a sample into a glass jar and in a darkened room
shine a laser (pointer) through the BD. The beam should not be visible
in the liquid.  Note that this tells you nothing about trigliceride
levels or methanol contamination but water content will give an
indication above a certain level.
Can magnesol be used to pretreat feedstock and be left in to settle out
with the byproduct?

Joe
---
Chris Bennett wrote:
  Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive
  resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye
  by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished,
  seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol
  by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult
  to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal
  clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been
  able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick
  seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear.
  10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and
  contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing.
  The next experiment

Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

2006-05-24 Thread E. C.

Hi John;

He didn't -- just like he didn't get elected the 1st
time -- used Diebold  other chicanery in Ohio the 2nd
time (even Karl was smart enuf not to do the deed in
his brother's state again).

That poll standing is about where Nixon's was the
night before he resigned, facing certain impeachment,
isn't it?

Regards
E. Allen C.

--- John Beale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Could someone please remind me, because I forget...
 How the hell did Bush get re-elected??
 
 
 Question for all of you who do not live in the
 United States:
 Do people in your area think that the US people
 support President Bush?
 Do those people realize that President Bush has an
 approval rating of  
 29%?
 
 
 I'm from Boston, Massachusetts, and darn it, I don't
 think I know  
 anyone who would admit to voting for Bush in 2004 or
 who, when asked,  
 would say that they would vote for Bush right now.
 
 Just wondering,
 -John
 
 
 
 On May 23, 2006, at 8:00 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:
 
 
 
 
  The Senate voted to make English the national
 language of the United
  States. The vote drew protests from several
 immigrant groups and one
  governor of California. --Conan O'Brien
 
  Even though it's a little bit controversial,
 President Bush supports
  the effort to make English our national language.
 The president says
  making English our national language is not
 'discriminatious.' --Conan
  O'Brien
 
  The Pentagon announced today that Iraqs border
 is now 90% under
  control, which is pretty impressive when you
 realize San Diego's border
  is only 20% under control. --Jay Leno
 
  As you know, the National Guard stands by, ready
 to go into action any
  time the president of the United States feels
 there's a big enough of a
  disaster, like a major earthquake, a huge flood, a
 29% approval rating.
  Any one of those things could trigger movement.
 --Jay Leno
 
  He went to a border town in Arizona yesterday.
 ... But, White House
  spokesman Tony Snow said it was not just a photo
 opportunity. No sirry
  Bob. Apparently, President Bush went down there
 looking for some guys
  about landscaping at the White House. --Jay Leno
 
  President Bush is pretty serious about this
 enforcement thing. In  
  fact,
  before he left the border, he put up a scarecrow
 of Dick Cheney with a
  shotgun. --Jay Leno
 
  President Bush said today he has nothing but
 respect for Mexico and  
  its
  people and he will always speak the truth to them.
 Here's my question:
  When can we get that deal? --Jay Leno
 
  The Senate voted to make English the national
 language. More bad news
  for President Bush. Now he's got to learn that.
 --Jay Leno
 
  The Senate voted 63 to 34 to make English the
 official language of the
  United States, but they say as a largely symbolic
 amendment with no  
  real
  effect. You know, kind of like that ethics bill.
 --Jay Leno
 
  Pat Robertson said this week that God told him
 that possibly a tsunami
  could hit the Pacific northwest this year. I don't
 want to be
  disrespectful, but possibly? ... Like God's
 thinking 60/40. ... Pat,
  that wasn't God. You fell asleep in front of the
 weather channel.  
  --Jay
  Leno
 
  As part of the ongoing immigration debate, the
 Senate on Thursday  
  voted
  64 to 34 to make English America's national
 language. Coming in second:
  '70s jive talk. Tina Fey
 
  A Senate committee on Thursday approved a
 constitutional amendment
  banning same sex marriage, apparently forgetting
 that our forefathers
  wore wigs and satin Capri pants. --Tina Fey
 
  Kenyan Muslims believe that a five-and-a-half
 pound tuna caught in the
  Indian Ocean off the coast of Mombasa, carries a
 message from Allah
  written among its scales. In a related story, this
 doctor [shows a
  picture of Bill Frist] doesn't think doesn't think
 condoms stop AIDS.
  And that's this week's edition of 'Religion Gone
 Nuts' --Tina Fey
 
  Many governors of northeastern states are
 unwilling to volunteer their
  National Guard troops to assist with President
 Bush's border plan. They
  want the Guard troops doing what they do best:
 freaking people out at
  Amtrak stations. Amy Poehler
 
  A Louisiana state Senate committee unanimously
 approved a ban on cock
  fighting, in what appears to be a first step in
 outlawing gay marriage
  --Amy Poehler
 
  President Bush is sending troops to the Mexican
 border. He's going to
  have them look for tequila of mass destruction.
 --David Letterman
 
  The Bush administration is tightening immigration
 now. In order to
  cross the United States, you have to have legal
 documentation. If you
  want to get into the United States you have to
 have legal documentation
  or a 95 mile an hour fast ball. --David Letterman
 
  The Senate yesterday voted to make English the
 national language of  
  the
  United States and also our national muffin. The
 English muffin. I'm  
  glad
  they took some time out to work on that. --Jimmy
 Kimmel
 
  It's all part of this immigration

Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

2006-05-24 Thread E. C.

Hey Mark;

BushCo is low as a snake's belly (very apt) in the
minds of most (70%+  rising) Americans -- would be
worse if about 10% didn't get their news only from
FauxNews (Fox), which is totally in BushCo's pocket.

the shrub  his cabal are corporatocrats,  primarily
oilmen -- their disastrous policies reflect that -- we
can only hope  work to turn them out of Congress this
year  then hire a real President etc. in 2008.

Get real news from the AM (alternative media), 'cause
the MM (mainstream media) are ALL mostly part of the
cabal.  Fortunately, the 2nd superpower is alive,
well,  growing by leaps  bounds (in spite of all
BushCo's weasely spin machinery.

Best for a better future
E. Allen C.

--- Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The images that the UK media give out is that Mr
 Bush is popular with the US 
 people. The biggest thing is that the US government
 deny SO WE ARE TOLD 
 through are media is that global warming due to mans
 pollution does not 
 exist in there minds ? Whats all that about?
 We are trying to cut back and the US gov are pushing
 forward with there 
 pollution.
 
 Have i got this all wrong?
 
 Mark [living in a mad world!]
 
 
 From: John Beale [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US
 Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 09:12:11 -0400
 
 Could someone please remind me, because I forget...
 How the hell did Bush get re-elected??
 
 
 Question for all of you who do not live in the
 United States:
 Do people in your area think that the US people
 support President Bush?
 Do those people realize that President Bush has an
 approval rating of  29%?
 
 
 I'm from Boston, Massachusetts, and darn it, I
 don't think I know  anyone 
 who would admit to voting for Bush in 2004 or who,
 when asked,  would say 
 that they would vote for Bush right now.
 
 Just wondering,
 -John
 
 
 
 On May 23, 2006, at 8:00 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:
 
 
 
 
 The Senate voted to make English the national
 language of the United
 States. The vote drew protests from several
 immigrant groups and one
 governor of California. --Conan O'Brien
 
 Even though it's a little bit controversial,
 President Bush supports
 the effort to make English our national language.
 The president says
 making English our national language is not
 'discriminatious.' --Conan
 O'Brien
 
 The Pentagon announced today that Iraqs border
 is now 90% under
 control, which is pretty impressive when you
 realize San Diego's border
 is only 20% under control. --Jay Leno
 
 As you know, the National Guard stands by, ready
 to go into action any
 time the president of the United States feels
 there's a big enough of a
 disaster, like a major earthquake, a huge flood, a
 29% approval rating.
 Any one of those things could trigger movement.
 --Jay Leno
 
 He went to a border town in Arizona yesterday.
 ... But, White House
 spokesman Tony Snow said it was not just a photo
 opportunity. No sirry
 Bob. Apparently, President Bush went down there
 looking for some guys
 about landscaping at the White House. --Jay Leno
 
 President Bush is pretty serious about this
 enforcement thing. In  fact,
 before he left the border, he put up a scarecrow
 of Dick Cheney with a
 shotgun. --Jay Leno
 
 President Bush said today he has nothing but
 respect for Mexico and  its
 people and he will always speak the truth to them.
 Here's my question:
 When can we get that deal? --Jay Leno
 
 The Senate voted to make English the national
 language. More bad news
 for President Bush. Now he's got to learn that.
 --Jay Leno
 
 The Senate voted 63 to 34 to make English the
 official language of the
 United States, but they say as a largely symbolic
 amendment with no  real
 effect. You know, kind of like that ethics bill.
 --Jay Leno
 
 Pat Robertson said this week that God told him
 that possibly a tsunami
 could hit the Pacific northwest this year. I don't
 want to be
 disrespectful, but possibly? ... Like God's
 thinking 60/40. ... Pat,
 that wasn't God. You fell asleep in front of the
 weather channel.  --Jay
 Leno
 
 As part of the ongoing immigration debate, the
 Senate on Thursday  voted
 64 to 34 to make English America's national
 language. Coming in second:
 '70s jive talk. Tina Fey
 
 A Senate committee on Thursday approved a
 constitutional amendment
 banning same sex marriage, apparently forgetting
 that our forefathers
 wore wigs and satin Capri pants. --Tina Fey
 
 Kenyan Muslims believe that a five-and-a-half
 pound tuna caught in the
 Indian Ocean off the coast of Mombasa, carries a
 message from Allah
 written among its scales. In a related story, this
 doctor [shows a
 picture of Bill Frist] doesn't think doesn't think
 condoms stop AIDS.
 And that's this week's edition of 'Religion Gone
 Nuts' --Tina Fey
 
 Many governors of northeastern states are
 unwilling to volunteer their
 National Guard troops to assist with President
 Bush's border plan. They
 want the

Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS

John Beale wrote:
snip
I was thinking of getting one of
  their T-shirts and wearing it around, except that they aren't at all
  subtle.

You can get a great T-shirt at Rx's website

www.thepartyparty.com

It has a pic of Dick Cheney and says Dick is a killernot so subtle
either but IMHO we are beyond subtleties at this point! :) I'm wearing
mine today!

There are some great songs there too.  I particularly like KGBTV and
Who's the Nigga  The HIV/AIDS one is just sobering, no humour there,
and Imagine is extremely clever.  I wish I was that good with a wave
editor!
Hey why don't we have a biofuels t shirt?

Naah - try one of these:
http://thoseshirts.com/
Those Shirts - conservative t-shirts

Keith

Cheers
Joe


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Re: [Biofuel] Copyleft of biofuel information

2006-05-24 Thread Kirk Thibault

maybe this?
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.5/
--

Kirk L. Thibault, Ph.D.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

p.  215.271.7720
f.   215.271.7740
c.  267.918.6908

skype. kirkthibault




On May 24, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Joe Street wrote:

 Ok I am ready to publish the manual and BOM for my homebrew  
 reactor.  I
 want to offer it under some sort of copyleft license. The GPL is  
 worded
 specifically for software but says pretty much what I wish to say  
 about
 the open source and sharing of my published information i.e. that  
 it can
 be freely copied and distributed but that no one can charge money for
 it. Does anyone on the list know of a public type license which is  
 more
 appropriate for this kind of documentation?  Also I am considering how
 to bundle the information with the license so that it comes as part of
 the package or my website contains some sort of gateway so that
 acceptance of the terms is required before download is allowed.  I am
 real dumb when it comes to how to set this up and am looking for  
 help or
 suggestions from anyone who is savvy.

 Hopefully

 Joe




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Re: [Biofuel] Copyleft of biofuel information

2006-05-24 Thread Al Girling

Hi Joe,

On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 03:50:26PM BST, Joe Street wrote:
 Ok I am ready to publish the manual and BOM for my homebrew reactor.  I 
 want to offer it under some sort of copyleft license. The GPL is worded 
 specifically for software but says pretty much what I wish to say about 
 the open source and sharing of my published information i.e. that it can 
 be freely copied and distributed but that no one can charge money for 
 it. Does anyone on the list know of a public type license which is more 
 appropriate for this kind of documentation?  Also I am considering how 
 to bundle the information with the license so that it comes as part of 
 the package or my website contains some sort of gateway so that 
 acceptance of the terms is required before download is allowed.  I am 
 real dumb when it comes to how to set this up and am looking for help or 
 suggestions from anyone who is savvy.

You might like to have a look at:

http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/

might be something more suitable for you there.

Toodle pip,

Al

-- 
Al Girling

Home page:  http://al.sdf-eu.org
Linux User: #290080 http://counter.li.org

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[Biofuel] Copyleft of biofuel information

2006-05-24 Thread David Klann

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your interest in posting your docs with an open license. I
think there are a couple good options for you: the GNU Free
Documentation License, and the Creative Commons License. Both offer
a good amount of openness. There are subtle differences between them
which I won't go into, but check them out at:

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html
http://www.creativecommons.org

Best regards,

 -David Klann


pgpmZShwilMrt.pgp
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Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

Why don't you send him in search of Hydrogen the most wonderful fuel of all?

We have no memory for yesterday's lies. (We don't remember PNGV 
either, nor any other missing weapons of mass reduction.)

J

Sorry I guess I'm in a rude mood this morning.

It's not against the rules. :-)

Best

Keith


Keith Addison wrote:
SNIP

 
  Check the word that's being spread that I'm supposed to help with,
  it's stuff like this:
 
  Biodiesel used in its pure form (B100) may require certain engine
  modifications to prevent gelling which would cause performance
  problems and maintenance issues. Some conversions warm the oil
  preventing the oil gelling at colder temperatures. A two fuel tank
  system is used in many of these conversions. The smaller tank holds
  petroleum diesel which is used at engine start up. After the engine
  warms up, the (B100) fuel is then warmed. At this point the driver
  switches to the larger primary tank holding the (B100). Before the
  engine is shut down the driver switches back over to the smaller
  petroleum diesel tank purging the (B100) fuel that may gel in the
  fuel lines when the engine cools.
 
  ROFL!!!
 
  How would I go about helping him? Start here?


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Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio

2006-05-24 Thread E. C.

Todd, Keith, Mike et al  List;

Kudos still to Keith for even-handed reasonableness.  
I'm also not a journalist, just a reader; still, i
read the whole thing  the links (retired, i have lots
of time --  like to get the whole flavor of what i
taste).

It was apparent that this was an angry  outraged
piece --  i was sure by the end that the frail lady
was probably not pure as the driven snow in the
encounter, despite her protestations.  But still --
she ( her fledgling organization) has citizen's
rights,  some of them were obviously violated, by
organized power holding all the cards  stacking the
deck.  At the very least, she ( the WCW she's part
of) are due an apology  some redress -- i wonder if
they'll get it?

This incident reminded me of one similar, albeit on a
much larger scale, also in Ohio back in the day --
but 4 student activists DIED at Kent State! 
Supposedly, re-training for Nat'l Guard  police came
of that -- but a generation has grown old  the new
one may not have gotten that benefit.  Time to
revisit?

Regards
E. Allen C.

P.S.  Keith, i owe you  the List an apology for muddy
writing (about a month ago) -- which you very aptly
corrected:  i didn't mean biofuel is biofuel is
biofuel, but, on re-reading (after getting over the
stinging rebuke) that was how it came across -- I'm
sorry.  What i meant was more like fuel is fuel is
fuel,  we need to learn how to cure our gluttony
for fuel, for the sake of this, our only planet.
Namaste
Allen 



--- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  You have to answer the questions who, what, where,
 when, why and how 
  in the first 25 words. But you seem to expect to
 find the whole 
  newspaper encapsulated in the front-page lead
 headline.
 
 And there you have it Keith.
 
 If you can honestly tell me that those questions
 were sufficently answered at the outset of the
 article,

http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1029Itemi
 then we certainly do have a difference in
 understanding on how best to capture an audience and
 communicate an idea expeditiously.
 
 And when from the 27th word through about the
 2,500th the reader is repeatedly bombarded with
 editorializing to the tune of  This is an outrage!
 - intended to
 enlist and incite emotion long before the facts are
 supplied - not to mention soliciation of donations
 for a cause that hasn't even been fully described
 yet, it's a pretty safe bet that it's not going to
 get any better and the facts probably need to be
 sought elsewhere.
 
 People generally don't like being led around the
 doggy park by a leash (2,500 words) and told what to
 think or believe, even if it is from a granola
 source. If I was after pre-packaged, I'd buy
 Swansons and watch Fox Knows.
 
 Like I mentioned to Mike Weaver, I got tired of the
 propaganda and stopped scrolling down. I did go to
 their archives and searched for a little more
 information. So it can't be said that I had neither
 interest or initiative.
 
 Fault me for not caring for the author's/webmaster's
 style if you wish. But the point is that if they
 failed to capture my full attention as someone who
 has interest in such maladies, then they're probably
 going to fail to gain the attention of others at an
 exponential rate.
 
 As for
 
  Why are you importing the rules of one type of
 journalism (print) 
  into a discussion that focuses on online
 information? Do newspapers 
  come with handy word-search engines, for instance?
 Do you see that 
  rule of journalism much in evidence when it comes
 to blogs? That 
  thing is a sort of blog. What goes on in the
 blogosphere is making 
  big huge dents in the mainstream press these days,
 
 Do you really think that the general guidelines of
 good communication should be chucked out the window
 when it comes to the internet and blogs? There
 should have been hotlinks pasted throughout their
 article from nearly sentence one. (Full story on
 Page 11.) And as a general rule, blogs pretty much
 give you the 5 dubyas and a how up front.
 
  Judging from this exchange, what it seems you
 haven't been there and
  done is learnt how to extract information.
 
 What it seems is exactly as I've explained. Nothing
 more and nothing less. I wanted facts and didn't
 have the patience to wade through a half-ton of
 blather to get to them. I'm not a speed reader. I'm
 just an average Joe who likes a straight story, not
 one well garnished with an endlessly distracting
 raft of flotsam and jetsom.
 
  You've been a web pressman? I know you worked in
 the old hot-metal 
  press, but not as a journalist. Here we are on the
 Internet and I see 
  scant evidence of soy-based ink.
 
 For nigh eleven years. Some of the smartest people
 anyone has ever known can (or could) be found
 twisting keys on ink fountains. Editorial rooms
 aren't exactly the sole repository of exceptional
 intelligence and/or skills. Quite a number of dim
 bulbs in that closet by my estimation.
 
  This time you definitely did

[Biofuel] Tin soldiers and Nixon's (second) coming

2006-05-24 Thread Mike Weaver

*Tin soldiers and Nixon's* coming, we're finally on our own This summer 
I hear the drumming, four dead in Ohio

E. C. wrote:

Todd, Keith, Mike et al  List;

Kudos still to Keith for even-handed reasonableness.  
I'm also not a journalist, just a reader; still, i
read the whole thing  the links (retired, i have lots
of time --  like to get the whole flavor of what i
taste).

It was apparent that this was an angry  outraged
piece --  i was sure by the end that the frail lady
was probably not pure as the driven snow in the
encounter, despite her protestations.  But still --
she ( her fledgling organization) has citizen's
rights,  some of them were obviously violated, by
organized power holding all the cards  stacking the
deck.  At the very least, she ( the WCW she's part
of) are due an apology  some redress -- i wonder if
they'll get it?

This incident reminded me of one similar, albeit on a
much larger scale, also in Ohio back in the day --
but 4 student activists DIED at Kent State! 
Supposedly, re-training for Nat'l Guard  police came
of that -- but a generation has grown old  the new
one may not have gotten that benefit.  Time to
revisit?

Regards
E. Allen C.

P.S.  Keith, i owe you  the List an apology for muddy
writing (about a month ago) -- which you very aptly
corrected:  i didn't mean biofuel is biofuel is
biofuel, but, on re-reading (after getting over the
stinging rebuke) that was how it came across -- I'm
sorry.  What i meant was more like fuel is fuel is
fuel,  we need to learn how to cure our gluttony
for fuel, for the sake of this, our only planet.
Namaste
Allen 



--- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

You have to answer the questions who, what, where,
  

when, why and how 


in the first 25 words. But you seem to expect to
  

find the whole 


newspaper encapsulated in the front-page lead
  

headline.

And there you have it Keith.

If you can honestly tell me that those questions
were sufficently answered at the outset of the
article,



http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1029Itemi
  

then we certainly do have a difference in
understanding on how best to capture an audience and
communicate an idea expeditiously.

And when from the 27th word through about the
2,500th the reader is repeatedly bombarded with
editorializing to the tune of  This is an outrage!
- intended to
enlist and incite emotion long before the facts are
supplied - not to mention soliciation of donations
for a cause that hasn't even been fully described
yet, it's a pretty safe bet that it's not going to
get any better and the facts probably need to be
sought elsewhere.

People generally don't like being led around the
doggy park by a leash (2,500 words) and told what to
think or believe, even if it is from a granola
source. If I was after pre-packaged, I'd buy
Swansons and watch Fox Knows.

Like I mentioned to Mike Weaver, I got tired of the
propaganda and stopped scrolling down. I did go to
their archives and searched for a little more
information. So it can't be said that I had neither
interest or initiative.

Fault me for not caring for the author's/webmaster's
style if you wish. But the point is that if they
failed to capture my full attention as someone who
has interest in such maladies, then they're probably
going to fail to gain the attention of others at an
exponential rate.

As for



Why are you importing the rules of one type of
  

journalism (print) 


into a discussion that focuses on online
  

information? Do newspapers 


come with handy word-search engines, for instance?
  

Do you see that 


rule of journalism much in evidence when it comes
  

to blogs? That 


thing is a sort of blog. What goes on in the
  

blogosphere is making 


big huge dents in the mainstream press these days,
  

Do you really think that the general guidelines of
good communication should be chucked out the window
when it comes to the internet and blogs? There
should have been hotlinks pasted throughout their
article from nearly sentence one. (Full story on
Page 11.) And as a general rule, blogs pretty much
give you the 5 dubyas and a how up front.



Judging from this exchange, what it seems you
  

haven't been there and


done is learnt how to extract information.
  

What it seems is exactly as I've explained. Nothing
more and nothing less. I wanted facts and didn't
have the patience to wade through a half-ton of
blather to get to them. I'm not a speed reader. I'm
just an average Joe who likes a straight story, not
one well garnished with an endlessly distracting
raft of flotsam and jetsom.



You've been a web pressman? I know you worked in
  

the old hot-metal 


press, but not as a journalist. Here we are on the
  

Internet and I see 


scant evidence of soy-based ink.
  

For nigh eleven years. Some of the smartest people
anyone has ever known can (or could) be found

Re: [Biofuel] 3A molecular Sieve and Methanol recovery

2006-05-24 Thread Jason Katie

that will work, absolutely, but i have a paper 
(http://www.ethanol.org/documents/Ethanol101.7.pdf) that describes passing 
hot alcohol vapors over 3A sieve under a slight pressure to achieve the same 
results. im not sure if it is any more or less efficient or simple, but it 
also works. and this paper also describes how and why the zeolite loses its 
viability after a time. if you bake it the heat breaks down the crystals. 
(better to use vacuum as well as heat =lower temps)


- Original Message - 
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 3A molecular Sieve and Methanol recovery


 i was researching alcohol production about a year ago, and many of
the pages i visited (including JTF) suggested that wet alcohol
vapors from a distillery's boiler could be passed over 3A sieve
instead of normal column packing material (marbles, SS wool, ceramic
rings, etc) to produce 99.5% 0r higher grade alcohol.

 That's not right. From the boiler it has to go through the
 distillation column first, and after that the distillate goes through
 3A sieve.

 Best

 Keith

since methanol is similar in composition to ethanol, i would wager
that applies to both scenarios. use an inverted soda bottle or some
similarly shaped vessel full of 3A and inject the alcohol vapors
into the wide end while collecting fresh dry methanol from
the narrow end.  you could set up multiple cannisters for this so
you always have a ready sieve while others are being re- baked.

- Original Message -
From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Thomas Kelly
To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:37 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] 3A molecular Sieve and Methanol recovery

Hello to all,
 3A molecular sieve is on its way. As I understand it,
selectively absorbs water from a water-alcohol solution thereby
drying the alcohol . sounds too good to be true.
 In my previous attempt at recovering methanol from the crude
glycerine split from the glycerine cocktail, a combination of greed
and stupidity on my part resulted in methanol w. water in it.
(Water in Recovered Methanol? 4/28/06).
 I've tweaked the condenser. I've tied the cooling of methanol
vapors ( much hot water) to my wash tank. Will use the hot
water generated by the cooling of methanol to washing a batch of BD.
 I will keep close eye on temp. and be patient. Do not allow the
temp to rise above 160F until distillation stops at this temp.
 Distillate produced in 150 - 160F range was mostly methanol.
Temp increase seemed to slow down at 150F. I take this to mean a
phase change is occurring (added heat is converting liquid Methanol
to gaseous Methanol). Above 160F temp seemed to rise more quickly. I
take this to mean that much of the methanol is gone.
 My plan is to have 4 containers, each with 5 lbs (~ 2.24 Kg) of
3A molecular sieve. Allow 2 gallons of distillate to flow into each
container. Occasionally swirl the contents of the containers over
the next 24 hrs.
 I'll strain out the 3A molecular sieve and re-weigh. If it
works, I should be able to dry the methanol and from the changes in
mass of the molecular sieve, get a sense of the actual volume of
methanol I can reasonably hope to recover from a given volume of
crude glycerine. I also hope to get a sense of the temp cut-off
point.
 As I understand it, 3A molecular Sieve will absorb about 25%
of its weight in water. If, for example the molecular sieve in
container 1 (1st 2 gal distillate) increases by 5%, the next by 8%,
the next by 15%, and the last by 25%, and additional Mol. Sieve
continues to gain mass, I would think that 6 or 7 gallons of
methanol is a reasonable
expectation for the volume of co-product I'm distilling.
Suggestions ... including Stop, you have it all wrong!
would be appreciated. It's tues. Friday looks like a good day to
brew; Saturday, to wash/distill. There's time for suggestions.
Tom


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Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing

2006-05-24 Thread Jason Katie

just exactly what is magnesol? i mean i know what it is but what is it made 
of?
- Original Message - 
From: Chris Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:14 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing

 Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive
 resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye
 by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished,
 seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol
 by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult
 to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal
 clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been
 able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick
 seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear.
 10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and
 contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing.
 The next experiment was based on the claims that magnesol neutralises
 FFA. I got 2 samples of WVO and filtered them. One 250ml sample was
 treated with about 1.5g of magnesol and mixed for abut 10 minuites. The
 magnesol was filtered out of the sample. BOTH samples were processed as
 new oil with 3.5g lye per litre and 250ml meth per litre. After
 seperation and cooling the pretreated sample is clear, and the byproduct
 is a redish colour. The untreated sample shows an uncomplete reaction
 and a very dark nearly black byproduct. I have yet to try water washing
 these samples. It appears that the magnesol pretreatment has removed the
 ffa content and then the oil has been able to be processed as new oil.
 It should be quite easy to integrate into a process by adding an
 arbitrary amount of magnesol to the feedstock and mixing, PH
 measurements will tell you if more needs to be added.

 The waste magnesol, according to manufactutrers literature, can be
 composted, put into landfill, and even used as animal feed. The magnesol
 washing could be integrated into a semi continuous process easily, which
 is why I am looking at it. Another comment is that when using it for
 washing biodiesel it also seems to remove colour and odour from the
 biodesel. The magnesol washed samples are always paler than the water
 washed samples.

 If the used magnesol is put into water it instantly goes cramy white, as
 it gives up the soaps etc that it has absorbed.

 Kieth, if you are interested I have some photos of the different samples
 tested and washed. Maybe you could incorporate something aout it into
 the JTF page? If anyone wants these photos emailed let me know! I was
 impressed.

 Chris Bennett

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Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

2006-05-24 Thread Jason Katie

BURN!! oh man thats a good one. im still crying from my laugh.

 This person clearly has a case of Encephalomalacia with extreme back
 strain and trauma to the lower GI tract (further explanation upon 
 request).



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Re: [Biofuel] Constitution Party

2006-05-24 Thread Doug Younker

Just more evidence of the engagement of moral ambiguity of too many of 
the faithful in my country. sigh
-- 
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA

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[Biofuel] Canadian provinces OK ethanol

2006-05-24 Thread AltEnergyNetwork

Canadian Provinces OK Ethanol Gas Additive

 http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148520998.news 






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[Biofuel] nuclear power doesn't stack up: experts

2006-05-24 Thread AltEnergyNetwork

Nuclear power doesn't stack up: experts

 http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1646649.htm 


Reporter: Stephen Long
MARK COLVIN: The Prime Minister appears to have
  put the question of nuclear power firmly on the
  agenda, but does nuclear power make economic
sense for Australia?

It was, after all, his Finance Minister who said
  it didn't and wouldn't for a century.

By calling for serious consideration of nuclear
  power in Australia, Mr Howard appears to be
contradicting the findings of the Government's
  own energy white paper.

Economics Correspondent Stephen Long.

STEPHEN LONG: When it comes to nuclear energy,
  it's very hard to separate the economics from
  the politics, as Hugh Outhred, the Director of
  the Centre for Energy and Environmental Markets
  at the University of New South Wales, observes.

HUGH OUTHRED: The economics of nuclear power has
  always been a difficult topic.

The problem, I guess, arises originally because nuclear
  power grew out of the military programs that were
  started in the United States and in countries like
  the UK, Russia, France, and so on.

And that link to the military side and to government
  has never really been broken.

STEPHEN LONG: Without the Manhattan Project there would
  have been no nuclear power industry. And in various
  ways nuclear energy in the United States has enjoyed
  a military cross-subsidy.

Even so, credible independent studies have found that
  it can't now compete on costs with coal and gas fired
  plants. And as for a country like Australia with abundant
  reserves of fossil fuels, the answer seems clear.

Hugh Outhred:

HUGH OUTHRED: It's not economic in direct cost terms
  compared to our coal fired power stations that we
  have in Australia. They're very cheap by world standards,
  roughly half the cost of coal fired electricity in
countries that import coal, like, say, in the United
  Kingdom. And so nuclear just simply can't compete with
  that.

STEPHEN LONG: A view shared by Dr Chris Riedy of the
Institute for Sustainable Futures at the University of
  Technology, Sydney.

CHRIS RIEDY: We haven't built power stations in the
past, so it's difficult to say what they would cost
here. But on the figures we've seen from overseas, I
  mean the UK and the US for example, nuclear power
  stations just don't seem to stack up economically.

Wind power is more cost effective. Natural gas power
is more cost effective. Energy efficiency is certainly
  more cost effective.

So it's really difficult to see a strong economic case
  being made for going down the path of nuclear power.

STEPHEN LONG: Well, some of the advocates say that nuclear
  power would become viable if the coal fired generators
  were forced to factor in the cost of fossil fuel emissions
  to the environment, say, for instance, through a carbon tax.

CHRIS RIEDY: Nuclear power would become more competitive
  in that case, but on the other hand so would all your
  renewable energy technologies.

Wind power would become much more competitive. Solar
  power would start to become more competitive. Biomass
  power would certainly become more competitive.

So when these technologies are clean, efficient, and
  in most cases well proven, it's difficult to see why
  you would choose to favour nuclear power over those
  in that situation.

STEPHEN LONG: The Government's own white paper on energy
  is also sceptical about the viability of nuclear power.

It affords it the status of a mere reserve technology,
  in other words a fallback option, ranking it in the quest
  for a sustainable power source below cleaner coal, wind
  energy, biomass and wave energy.

And Hugh Outhred says that in that context the Prime
  Minister's comments on the need to debate nuclear power
  seem curious.

HUGH OUTHRED: If you look at the present Commonwealth
Government's policy, which is in the energy white paper
  that they released in 2004, it doesn't rank nuclear
energy highly. It ranks it as a sort of a fallback option,
  rather than one of the Government's leading options to
  respond to climate change.

STEPHEN LONG: In the United States, a major interdisciplinary
  study at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) found
  that nuclear energy should be considered as part of America's
  future.

Yet it concluded that it wasn't at present cost effective,
  that little was known about the safety of the overall
nuclear fuel cycle, and that while geological disposal
  of nuclear waste was technically feasible, its execution
  was yet to be demonstrated and was not certain.

It also found that the current nuclear non-proliferation
  safeguards aren't adequate to meet the security challenges
  of an expanded nuclear industry, which raises the question
  of insurance and liability. Unless the Australian Government
  is willing to bear these costs like governments overseas,
  nuclear power won't be viable.

MARK COLVIN: Stephen Long.



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Alternate Energy

Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing

Chris,
Where do you get Magnesol and what is it?
Jim

Chris Bennett wrote:

Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive 
resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye 
by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished, 
seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol 
by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult 
to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal 
clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been 
able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick 
seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear. 
10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and 
contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing.
The next experiment was based on the claims that magnesol neutralises 
FFA. I got 2 samples of WVO and filtered them. One 250ml sample was 
treated with about 1.5g of magnesol and mixed for abut 10 minuites. The 
magnesol was filtered out of the sample. BOTH samples were processed as 
new oil with 3.5g lye per litre and 250ml meth per litre. After 
seperation and cooling the pretreated sample is clear, and the byproduct 
is a redish colour. The untreated sample shows an uncomplete reaction 
and a very dark nearly black byproduct. I have yet to try water washing 
these samples. It appears that the magnesol pretreatment has removed the 
ffa content and then the oil has been able to be processed as new oil. 
It should be quite easy to integrate into a process by adding an 
arbitrary amount of magnesol to the feedstock and mixing, PH 
measurements will tell you if more needs to be added.

The waste magnesol, according to manufactutrers literature, can be 
composted, put into landfill, and even used as animal feed. The magnesol 
washing could be integrated into a semi continuous process easily, which 
is why I am looking at it. Another comment is that when using it for 
washing biodiesel it also seems to remove colour and odour from the 
biodesel. The magnesol washed samples are always paler than the water 
washed samples.

If the used magnesol is put into water it instantly goes cramy white, as 
it gives up the soaps etc that it has absorbed.

Kieth, if you are interested I have some photos of the different samples 
tested and washed. Maybe you could incorporate something aout it into 
the JTF page? If anyone wants these photos emailed let me know! I was 
impressed.

Chris Bennett


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[Biofuel] hydrogen fuel balls from a gas pump?

2006-05-24 Thread Kirk McLoren

| Hydrogen Fuel Balls from a Gas Pump? || from the quite-a-racket dept. || posted by ScuttleMonkey on Monday May 22, @22:29 (Power) || http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/22/2158216 |++[0]navalynt writes "New Scientist reports that the Department of Energyhas
 filed a patent for [1]hydrogen fuel balls. From the article 'Theproposed glass microspheres would each be a few millionths of a metre(microns) wide with a hollow center containing specks of palladium. Thewalls of each sphere would also have pores just a few ten-billionths of ametre in diameter.' They are supposedly safe and small enough to bepumped into a fuel tank in the same manner as gasoline."Discuss this story at: http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/05/22/2158216Links: 0. mailto:MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.f303.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.f303.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1. http://www.newscientist.com/blog/invention/
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Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society.

Well I don't know if private or public is the way to go but I think you 
said it all, when you stated  in the end it all depends on, the 
character of those in

power.

I completely agree with that statement. No matter how Divine the Design, Cancer 
can ruin it. Perhaps this is the root cause of our societal ills? (globally). 

Well I dont have any of the answers I'm the one with all the questions but I 
think you have nailed the most important one of all. 

Now how do we empower those with decent character??


Doug Younker wrote:

Jim,

Interesting that you bring up tribal, whenever a coffee shop commentator 
states communism is not natural and can never work, I point out that 
many tribal societies have persevered, until they where discovered by a 
more powerful force, that is.  That force may have been another tribal 
society, so tribal societies aren't perfect either.


Also interesting that you bring up grazing.  Here in Kansas a rancher 
needs to purchase or cash rent pasture, so they are put in a competitive 
disadvantage with those ranchers who are able to rent public land below 
market value. Despite that I think you will find few would support 
raising the rent collected for use of public land to real world values. 
   Because it's the government collecting the rent, they don't stop to 
consider, they are supposed to be part of the government.

Democracy/Republic, Dictatorship, Monarchy; Capitalism, Communism, 
Socialism, in the end  it all depends on, the character of those in 
power.  With that in mind, I'd rather we stay with private ownership.
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA

JJJN wrote:

  

Actually I don't know how that form of goevrnment would work as I'm not 
sure that it has ever existed past or present unless perhaps we look at 
the tribal governments that did not understand the concept of individual 
ownership.  I do think that it could be acheived and individuals could 
possibly like it better than any system that they have a comfort zone 
with.  I'm squeemish with the idea a bit as well but I also see 
Developers raiding privately held land in our society, courts supporting 
it, Public land being sold off to pay for schools, cattlemen getting 
public grazing alotments they only pay a pittance for in relation to 
private holdings.  So I don't think our system is as good a one as I 
used to.  I think if the people were in charge they would envelope a 
system that would be fair and equitable to the poor as well as the 
priveleged - possibly? If that system were one of private ownership or 
of public Im not sure but I do know ours is askew of what it should be.

Luck,
Jim



Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA

JJJN wrote:
 

  

I disagree,
The land is any nations wealth, when everything else is gone it is the 
land that will still give. We kid ourselves if we think wealth lies in 
gold. If you spread the land out to allow ley farming you create an 
abundance that is not dependant on an unrenewable resource such as 
modern agriculture.   Abundances create  trade and trade  allows for  
luxuries.  Remember why do you suppose that people came from almost 
every country on earth in the early days to get free land in this 
country - to have the opportunity to prosper. What do you think would 
have happened if there Oil and coal was never discovered?  Would we be a 
nation still a horseback? Not we would have developed technology just 
the same but it would be along much more sustainable lines.  I think Oil 
and Coal has Derailed our natural progression in an artificial manner.  
And unless some fool discovers perpetual energy and gives modern man 
that (then we can give up hope) we will soon learn where we left off.  
But as some say lets not rest until we have released every carbon atom 
into air.

My best,
Jim

Doug Younker wrote:

   



Hi,

   I'm not so sure if the following would even be possible;

6) No private land ownership, however a system that puts people on the
 

  

land for prosperity in agriculture through ley and organic means.
   



In the county in which I live there would be enough decent property to 
allow every now existing households to prosper engaging in agricultural 
means.  I suppose it depends on how you define prosper, but I'm certain 
we wouldn't having this exchange in the manner we are.  Owning a 
computer and purchasing Internet service would be luxuries.

Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA

JJJN wrote:


 

  

Since I am USA born and raised, I've only been to Canada 5 times I have 
a limited experience in life with what others experience concerning 
Government and its role in ones daily life.  One of the things I like 
about this list is the variety of international differences shared every 
so often.  A question has come to mind pondering what is the role a 
government should play in life and in what ways should not interfere.  
If I was going to start a new Country I came up with a list of things 
that I would want it to do.

Re: [Biofuel] Government's role in society.

Mike,
A Corporation is only a form of a business along with Limited Liability 
partnerships, a dozen or so hybrid forms and Sole proprietors ships any 
one is only as good as those that lead it. What is your solution? where 
do you stop? Ban all forms of trade?  I  don't like the  greed and abuse 
either, but I am practical enough to understand that not every 
Corporation is run by an evil twin to Enron.

I also understand what you are saying that there need to be much stiffer 
reforms in place to legislate ethics to those that are running many of 
them.

But some how I just don't have the faith that people will wake up, and 
if they do I think it will be to late.

Jim

Michael Redler wrote:

 Jim wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them 
 make a profit when it means prosperity for all.

 *Divided World: Rich Live Longer, Poor Die Younger*
 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/062900-01.htm 

 Those who want wealth, will have it. Since there is no individual 
 who's work represents hundreds of times the value of his/her 
 employees, you arrive at two simple conclusions - that corporations 
 are a means of building wealth off the backs of others and that those 
 who own those corporations are obsessed with building empires and 
 monuments to themselves, off the backs of others.

 The size of a corporation is a measure of the ambition to build that 
 empire and monument.

 The only thing that can fight the devastating effects of corporate 
 greed is public consensus and a movement built from that consensus. 
 The sooner that greed effects public policy and makes enough people 
 suffer, the sooner the public will wake up to what's going on around 
 them and react to it.

 Mike
  

 */JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:

 I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a
 profit
 when it means prosperity for all, I just dont like the powers in
 Govrnment to be persuaded and corrupted by those profits. Yes this
 one
 needs some work,

 Thanks
 Jim

 D. Mindock wrote:

 Hi Jim,
  I think number 4 could be dangerous. What if a corporation
 wanted to
 withhold their taxes for some
 reason?
  I'd modify number 5:
 5) Government through representation of the people by the people.
 to this:
 5) Government through representation of only the people, by only
 the people,
 for only the
 people. (No wiggle room on this one)
 And I'd add another article that strongly limits what is really
 the root of
 all our problems, the
 immoral/unethical, inhumane influence of multinational
 corporations which
 now control most of the world's
 governments and indirectly, their people. This is the elephant in
 the room,
 imo. Corporations are
 not people or a person and deserve no special treatment. The
 welfare of the
 people should be paramount to all considerations.
 In this vein, the environment is part and parcel of the welfare
 of the
 people. You can't ignore it or trash it without it coming
 back to ruin your day, and your life. Corporations, as a rule,
 don't give a
 hoot about the environment. We are all stuck on a small planet
 that is
 getter more polluted every day. The oceans are loaded with PCBs
 and mercury.
 This cannot continue without devastating consequences for all
 living things.
 So, an article that explicitly encourages/enforces a healthy
 environment
 should, imo, be added. I think it is that important.
 
 Peace, D. Mindock
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Doug Younker
 To:
 Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:39 AM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society.
 
 [snip] 



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Re: [Biofuel] Government's role in society.

I am not sure of this but in the beginning didn't the Constitution 
require that the Government was to be funded by buisness and trade?  And 
did not the victory tax come to be our first income tax?

Jim

Mike Weaver wrote:

We've been through similar periods before...railroads, steel, Standard 
oil, Airlines...

Michael Redler wrote:

  

Jim wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them 
make a profit when it means prosperity for all.

*Divided World: Rich Live Longer, Poor Die Younger*
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/062900-01.htm 

Those who want wealth, will have it. Since there is no individual 
who's work represents hundreds of times the value of his/her 
employees, you arrive at two simple conclusions - that corporations 
are a means of building wealth off the backs of others and that those 
who own those corporations are obsessed with building empires and 
monuments to themselves, off the backs of others.

The size of a corporation is a measure of the ambition to build that 
empire and monument.

The only thing that can fight the devastating effects of corporate 
greed is public consensus and a movement built from that consensus. 
The sooner that greed effects public policy and makes enough people 
suffer, the sooner the public will wake up to what's going on around 
them and react to it.

Mike
 

*/JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:

I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a
profit
when it means prosperity for all, I just dont like the powers in
Govrnment to be persuaded and corrupted by those profits. Yes this
one
needs some work,

Thanks
Jim

D. Mindock wrote:

Hi Jim,
 I think number 4 could be dangerous. What if a corporation
wanted to
withhold their taxes for some
reason?
 I'd modify number 5:
5) Government through representation of the people by the people.
to this:
5) Government through representation of only the people, by only
the people,
for only the
people. (No wiggle room on this one)
And I'd add another article that strongly limits what is really
the root of
all our problems, the
immoral/unethical, inhumane influence of multinational
corporations which
now control most of the world's
governments and indirectly, their people. This is the elephant in
the room,
imo. Corporations are
not people or a person and deserve no special treatment. The
welfare of the
people should be paramount to all considerations.
In this vein, the environment is part and parcel of the welfare
of the
people. You can't ignore it or trash it without it coming
back to ruin your day, and your life. Corporations, as a rule,
don't give a
hoot about the environment. We are all stuck on a small planet
that is
getter more polluted every day. The oceans are loaded with PCBs
and mercury.
This cannot continue without devastating consequences for all
living things.
So, an article that explicitly encourages/enforces a healthy
environment
should, imo, be added. I think it is that important.

Peace, D. Mindock

- Original Message -
From: Doug Younker
To:
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society.

[snip]



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Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS

2006-05-24 Thread John Beale

Keith,

An anti-Che Guevara or Pro-Ronald Reagan T-shirt would certainly get  
plenty of attention in my social circles -- I might just have to get  
one. Now, that celebrate diversity shirt is choice. I might have to  
actually pick one of those up.

-John



On May 24, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Keith Addison wrote:

 John Beale wrote:
 snip
 I was thinking of getting one of
 their T-shirts and wearing it around, except that they aren't at all
 subtle.

 You can get a great T-shirt at Rx's website

 www.thepartyparty.com

 It has a pic of Dick Cheney and says Dick is a killernot so  
 subtle
 either but IMHO we are beyond subtleties at this point! :) I'm wearing
 mine today!

 There are some great songs there too.  I particularly like KGBTV and
 Who's the Nigga  The HIV/AIDS one is just sobering, no humour  
 there,
 and Imagine is extremely clever.  I wish I was that good with a wave
 editor!
 Hey why don't we have a biofuels t shirt?

 Naah - try one of these:
 http://thoseshirts.com/
 Those Shirts - conservative t-shirts

 Keith

 Cheers
 Joe


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Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US

2006-05-24 Thread John Beale

Oh, yeah I heard that ditch water thing the other day from a friend of mine!
It looks really promising! I'm going gather my life savings, sell my mutual funds, and get a tuition refund and invest everything in ditch water and magnets!
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I KNOW I'm gonna get rich with this scheme -- and quick!
-- Homer Simpson, Episode 2F07: Grampa vs. Sexual Inadequacy

I can't lose!
-John

On May 24, 2006, at 10:02 AM, Joe Street wrote:

I heard that you could fill your tank with ditch water actually and the
magnet would convert it to fuel on the way to the engine. I know a guy
who has been working on this for 40 years but the government keeps
destroying his lab and jacking his cars.

Mike Weaver wrote:

If you put a magnet around your fuel line you don't have to do the two
fuel tanks thing with B100.
I read it on the Internet.

Keith Addison wrote:

Hi Robert

snip>

Keith pointed this out in another thread.

Do you mean this one?
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62541.html
Re: [Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nuk

Why some Americans want to join the Biofuel list and how it's changed.

snip>

People complain to me, but lately I've been telling them to shut
up. I've been warning everyone around me for YEARS that we were heading
down the path toward BIG trouble. Now it's here and I'm in no mood to
listen to their bickering. What REALLY irritates me right now, is that
many of those who are lamenting the loudest are the same group that put
Mr. Bush and his cabal in power. If you really want to know who those
29% are, listen to the ones complaining about high gas prices and
blaming their problems on the Arabs. I'd lay odds that among that group
you will find the president's most ardent supporters.

I'd be surprised if you weren't right. With a big overlap with the
religious far-right.

Most recent desafinado reason for wanting to join the list, or for
doing biofuels generally, is what Bush said about America's oil
addiction and freeing the US from its dependence on foreign oil. It
seems to encapsulate all the previous disconnects about terrorists
and Arabs and so on.

Quite often when they write to us they tell us things like this:
Just like you, we are dedicated to building a better future for our
country... That tickles me, though I suppose I am dedicated to that,
along with the other 191 countries, or at least the people who live
in them, and the rest of the planet too.

They're not too good at getting things right. Look at this one, just received:

Hello Kieth and Midori,

I am contacting you to ask you to help us spread the word about
alternative fuels. My name is David Bernstein and I am the
technical advisor for >http://www.beyondfossilfuel.com/. We have
just launched our new site and are looking for some industry leading
sites to help announce its launch.

Beyond Fossil Fuel is a site dedicated to spreading the word about
alternative fuels/energy such as ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen and
more. We will be following all changes in the landscape of fuel and
energy and try to provide the best resources for those looking to
learn more.

Is there anyway you could link to our site or help announce
beyondfossilfuel.com's launch? Just like you, we are dedicated to
building a better future for our country and spreading the word is a
great place to start.

Thank you,
David Bernstein
Technical Advisor
http://www.beyondfossilfuel.com/

You know what you'll find - independence from foreign oil.

It says: We must start turning away from the dependence on foreign
fossil fuel by developing our own energy sources. This is a critical
time to start moving away from our addiction to foreign fossil fuel
and face up to possible change in our life style if needed.

And so on, yawn. They just want to replace the imported heroin with
homegrown so they can go on guzzling forever, change in our life
style my elbow.

Check the word that's being spread that I'm supposed to help with,
it's stuff like this:

Biodiesel used in its pure form (B100) may require certain engine
modifications to prevent gelling which would cause performance
problems and maintenance issues. Some conversions warm the oil
preventing the oil gelling at colder temperatures. A two fuel tank
system is used in many of these conversions. The smaller tank holds
petroleum diesel which is used at engine start up. After the engine
warms up, the (B100) fuel is then warmed. At this point the driver
switches to the larger primary tank holding the (B100). Before the
engine is shut down the driver switches back over to the smaller
petroleum diesel tank purging the (B100) fuel that may gel in the
fuel lines when the engine cools.

ROFL!!!

How would I go about helping him? Start here?

Not very unusual. I suppose that's how they go about doing Bush and
God and Arabs and so on too, it's the missing 29%,

Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio

Todd, Keith, Mike et al  List;

Kudos still to Keith for even-handed reasonableness.

Thankyou Allen. :-)

I'm also not a journalist, just a reader; still, i
read the whole thing  the links (retired, i have lots
of time --  like to get the whole flavor of what i
taste).

It was apparent that this was an angry  outraged
piece --  i was sure by the end that the frail lady
was probably not pure as the driven snow in the
encounter, despite her protestations.  But still --
she ( her fledgling organization) has citizen's
rights,  some of them were obviously violated, by
organized power holding all the cards  stacking the
deck.  At the very least, she ( the WCW she's part
of) are due an apology  some redress -- i wonder if
they'll get it?

I doubt it, but along with the event itself maybe it'll help open a 
few more eyes to some of the things that are going on in the land 
that terrorists allegedly hate because of its freedoms. (That's not a 
sneer, it's a lament.)

This incident reminded me of one similar, albeit on a
much larger scale, also in Ohio back in the day --
but 4 student activists DIED at Kent State!

Thankyou for that too, a point I missed. So much for my geography, I 
didn't realise Kent State is in Ohio. :-(

I was looking at the Kent State news photos the other day:
http://may4.org/themes/may4/Filo1sm.jpg

And at this too:
http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/flowerpower.jpg

Not to bring it down, but it was the basic inspiration for the 
sunflowers-in-the-tank image on our biofuels pages, much ripped-off 
and emulated since then - it's not easy to illustrate biofuels!
http://journeytoforever.org/media/s/sunflowers.jpg

About the silliest copy I saw was this one, by Ed Beggs at 
PlantDrive/Neoteric, before they replaced it with an Elsbett 
lookalike logo:
http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/beggspic.jpg

LOL!

Didn't think I'd ever get a laugh out of Kent State.

Supposedly, re-training for Nat'l Guard  police came
of that -- but a generation has grown old  the new
one may not have gotten that benefit.  Time to
revisit?

If not for that one then surely for other pressing reasons.

If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that 
connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many 
others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the 
name of a college now? If you search for Kent State at Google the 
1970 shootings come up at #3. That's encouraging.

Regards
E. Allen C.

P.S.  Keith, i owe you  the List an apology for muddy
writing (about a month ago) -- which you very aptly
corrected:  i didn't mean biofuel is biofuel is
biofuel, but, on re-reading (after getting over the
stinging rebuke) that was how it came across -- I'm
sorry.  What i meant was more like fuel is fuel is
fuel,  we need to learn how to cure our gluttony
for fuel, for the sake of this, our only planet.

Verily.

I'm sorry it stung, it wasn't intended to, just to redirect. If we'd 
met in a cafe instead of a workshop I wouldn't have done it that way. 
Not to say it can't be a cafe too. You're welcome to give me a 
thumping in return for thinking Kent State is in America is America 
is America. :-)

Thankyou, Allen, for rescuing the subject and putting it back on the 
rails, police brutality on Ohio.

It won't be this current case of course, though hopefully it'll add 
to the accumulation that's building, but the opposition needs a 
powerful mobilising and unifying symbol now like Kent State was then. 
Without the bodies, more than enough bodies already. I don't mean the 
opposition party, the opposition that Kent State helped to mobilise 
wasn't a party.

It's embarrassing, you try to overthrow the government
and you wind up on the Best Seller's List.
-- Abbie Hoffman

http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/
Steal This Book

Read It! (413k)
http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/steal.html

Namaste

Keith



Namaste
Allen



--- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   You have to answer the questions who, what, where,
  when, why and how
   in the first 25 words. But you seem to expect to
  find the whole
   newspaper encapsulated in the front-page lead
  headline.
 
  And there you have it Keith.

snip


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Re: [Biofuel] Tin soldiers and Nixon's (second) coming