Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
I am in the process of doing a conversion of a 1974 ford courier pickup -- lots of weight capacity, but only a 2,500lb vehical empty. I haven't decided whether to do an AC or DC drive system yet (about $5,000 for the DC, or $8,000 for the AC). But if I do a DC, I'll definitly do about 156VDC or higher. The higher the voltage, the higher the power you can get from the same motor -- a ford ranger conversion with the 156 volt DC drive system can keep up 70+ on the highway even on hills -- better than my old diesel truck -- till the batteries start going dead at least. The AC systems are about 300 volt battery bank.I second the suggestion to read Bob Brant's book. If you just want to tool around the flatland at 30mph, the van should be fine, even with a 96 volt system... but not on hills or highways. I have a friend who has a electric gorilla (basically an ATV). It's only 36 volts, and can pull a tandem axle trailer with a car on it around the yard. Torque. On 12/27/06, William Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I should have specified - battery to vehicle weight 30% or greater. Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: William Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? Read Bob Brant's book Build Your Own Electric Vehicle. He say s 30% or greater. Good Luck, Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
The fellow at redrok solar has the cleverest battery controller I have seen. Each cell is idividually controlled so you can run the max out of a bank. Also is simple in the sense exotic magnetics arent involved. You just select in 2v increments your power. As a cell drops a fresher cell is substituted so the hottest are used. Damn clever. Kirk Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am in the process of doing a conversion of a 1974 ford courier pickup -- lots of weight capacity, but only a 2,500lb vehical empty. I haven't decided whether to do an AC or DC drive system yet (about $5,000 for the DC, or $8,000 for the AC). But if I do a DC, I'll definitly do about 156VDC or higher. The higher the voltage, the higher the power you can get from the same motor -- a ford ranger conversion with the 156 volt DC drive system can keep up 70+ on the highway even on hills -- better than my old diesel truck -- till the batteries start going dead at least. The AC systems are about 300 volt battery bank. I second the suggestion to read Bob Brant's book. If you just want to tool around the flatland at 30mph, the van should be fine, even with a 96 volt system... but not on hills or highways. I have a friend who has a electric gorilla (basically an ATV). It's only 36 volts, and can pull a tandem axle trailer with a car on it around the yard. Torque. On 12/27/06, William Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I should have specified - battery to vehicle weight 30% or greater. Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: William Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? Read Bob Brant's book Build Your Own Electric Vehicle. He say s 30% or greater. Good Luck, Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
I should have specified - battery to vehicle weight 30% or greater. Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: William Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? Read Bob Brant's book Build Your Own Electric Vehicle. He say s 30% or greater. Good Luck, Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
Read Bob Brant's book Build Your Own Electric Vehicle. He say s 30% or greater. Good Luck, Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed for short-term operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the engine); not continuous operation or the load of moving the vehicle. I have driven a small car on its starter motor in an emergency situation. Went a few hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor failed shortly thereafter. If this is to be an educational experience, I highly recommend starting with something smaller, that can still be useful. For example, electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard appliance, convert a motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon vehicle. You will learn the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but on a much smaller budget, and likely end up with something you will actually use afterward. Darryl McMahon (owner - 1973 Porsche 914 electric conversion, 1973 General Electric Elec-Trak E12 tractor, homebrew electric bicycle based on hub motor, 1999 Spincraft EB-1 solar electric boat and too many past, current and future projects to mention). Luke Hansen wrote: I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke -- Darryl McMahon It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook) http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
starter motors are not designed for continuous service. Kirk Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? --- Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed for short-term operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the engine); not continuous operation or the load of moving the vehicle. I have driven a small car on its starter motor in an emergency situation. Went a few hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor failed shortly thereafter. If this is to be an educational experience, I highly recommend starting with something smaller, that can still be useful. For example, electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard appliance, convert a motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon vehicle. You will learn the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but on a much smaller budget, and likely end up with something you will actually use afterward. Darryl McMahon (owner - 1973 Porsche 914 electric conversion, 1973 General Electric Elec-Trak E12 tractor, homebrew electric bicycle based on hub motor, 1999 Spincraft EB-1 solar electric boat and too many past, current and future projects to mention). Luke Hansen wrote: I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke -- Darryl McMahon It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook) http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
On Dec 23, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Luke Hansen wrote: Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? There's an optimal ratio of battery weight to total weight-- can't remember the number now, but Darryl probably knows. I know the Honda Civic I converted (and drove for a few years) had around 900 lbs of lead-acid batteries (Optima Yellow Tops). I think the problem with a van is just that you'd need so many batteries even to successfully keep up with traffic, the total weight would be too high to handle well. If I ever did another electric vehicle, it would be a tricycle with spoked wheels and a tubular aluminum or carbon- fiber frame. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
http://www.kta-ev.com/ http://www.eaaev.org/eaalinks.html Kirk Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? --- Darryl McMahon wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed for short-term operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the engine); not continuous operation or the load of moving the vehicle. I have driven a small car on its starter motor in an emergency situation. Went a few hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor failed shortly thereafter. If this is to be an educational experience, I highly recommend starting with something smaller, that can still be useful. For example, electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard appliance, convert a motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon vehicle. You will learn the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but on a much smaller budget, and likely end up with something you will actually use afterward. Darryl McMahon (owner - 1973 Porsche 914 electric conversion, 1973 General Electric Elec-Trak E12 tractor, homebrew electric bicycle based on hub motor, 1999 Spincraft EB-1 solar electric boat and too many past, current and future projects to mention). Luke Hansen wrote: I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke -- Darryl McMahon It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook) http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
Luke Hansen wrote: Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Uh-huh. I had the 3/4-ton version for many years. Nothing enjoyable about the space around that engine for working. Still, a lot less work than an electric conversion. Besides, you're going to have to drop the engine anyway as part of the conversion exercise. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? The weight is the starting point for the issues. IIRC, this van weighs about 4,000 pounds empty. To get any kind of performance (say 0-30 mph in under 20 seconds) is going to take a lot of watts. Voltage doesn't matter - watts matter. (Watts is voltage times amps.) You will need a very large electric motor, something in the order of 40 hp continuous rating. Think mine locomotive, not golf cart. Everything gets heavier as a result. Heavier cables, heavier safety devices, heavier batteries, and they cycle keeps feeding on itself. The inertia should not be your biggest loss unless you are starting and stopping four times a mile. The GM van has the aerodynamics of a brick, so travelling at speed should be your biggest loss. *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? Variety of factors. First is that most of these vans came with automatic transmissions. Adapters from an electric motor to the automatic tranny / torque converter were challenging. Then there is the issue of how to mount the motor in the engine space so it is braced against torque rotation, but not solidly locked to the frame. Getting a motor big enough was a factor. (500-amp starter generators were not up to the job.) Then there is the cost of 1,000 to 2,000 pounds of deep cycle batteries, mounting them securely, and beefing up the suspension to take the weight. Oh, and something to actually control the electricity from the pack to the motor is handy - also not cheap. Essentially, it just ends up expensive for disappointing returns. Best to learn on something cheaper. Another conversion did get onto the road. It mysteriously caught fire shortly after going into service. The owner was never satisfied with how it performed in the short time it was operational. There have been professional conversions of this platform as well. Look for Lucas-Chloride Bedford van electric conversions (probably the best) and the Magna G-Van conversions for more on how it was done when folks had big budgets. Check the specs. Then downrate everything by at least 50% to allow for doing things on the cheap and learning on the go. That's about the best you can hope for. --- Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed for short-term operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the engine); not continuous operation or the load of moving the vehicle. I have driven a small car on its starter motor in an emergency situation. Went a few hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor failed shortly thereafter. If this is to be an educational experience, I highly recommend starting with something smaller, that can still be useful. For example, electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard appliance, convert a motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon vehicle. You will learn the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but on a much
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
How about simply dumping the AT, and do a conversion similar to the Soletria E-10 (Chevy S-10) conversion? Just mount the electric motor in the rear directly to the differential after flipping it to face to the rear. Then you could do a mixture of super caps and batteries to save weight. For longer trips, then just get a hybrid trailer and plug it directly to the controller/battery pack for charging and run the motor off bio. Just my $0.02. :-) Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? Luke Hansen wrote: Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Uh-huh. I had the 3/4-ton version for many years. Nothing enjoyable about the space around that engine for working. Still, a lot less work than an electric conversion. Besides, you're going to have to drop the engine anyway as part of the conversion exercise. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? The weight is the starting point for the issues. IIRC, this van weighs about 4,000 pounds empty. To get any kind of performance (say 0-30 mph in under 20 seconds) is going to take a lot of watts. Voltage doesn't matter - watts matter. (Watts is voltage times amps.) You will need a very large electric motor, something in the order of 40 hp continuous rating. Think mine locomotive, not golf cart. Everything gets heavier as a result. Heavier cables, heavier safety devices, heavier batteries, and they cycle keeps feeding on itself. The inertia should not be your biggest loss unless you are starting and stopping four times a mile. The GM van has the aerodynamics of a brick, so travelling at speed should be your biggest loss. *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? Variety of factors. First is that most of these vans came with automatic transmissions. Adapters from an electric motor to the automatic tranny / torque converter were challenging. Then there is the issue of how to mount the motor in the engine space so it is braced against torque rotation, but not solidly locked to the frame. Getting a motor big enough was a factor. (500-amp starter generators were not up to the job.) Then there is the cost of 1,000 to 2,000 pounds of deep cycle batteries, mounting them securely, and beefing up the suspension to take the weight. Oh, and something to actually control the electricity from the pack to the motor is handy - also not cheap. Essentially, it just ends up expensive for disappointing returns. Best to learn on something cheaper. Another conversion did get onto the road. It mysteriously caught fire shortly after going into service. The owner was never satisfied with how it performed in the short time it was operational. There have been professional conversions of this platform as well. Look for Lucas-Chloride Bedford van electric conversions (probably the best) and the Magna G-Van conversions for more on how it was done when folks had big budgets. Check the specs. Then downrate everything by at least 50% to allow for doing things on the cheap and learning on the go. That's about the best you can hope for. --- Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed
