Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
HI Kirk, Do you not think that a hybrid SUV is a conflict considering that many small cars such as a Toyota Echo get better gas milage than a hybrid SUV? What might be better would be a Smart Car size vehicle with a diesel plug in Electric Hybrid. Terry Dyck From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:20:05 -0700 (PDT) I suspect with the projected prices and profits that they will not need new refineries. When fuel hits $5 as I suspect it will most of us wont take motor vacations etc. Carpooling will be back in vogue and SUVs will be hybrids. Kirk Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of those times I smell a rat, but can't find/prove it. In regards to environmental requirements, in the industry previously claimed the costs where too high and the consumer wouldn't pay the price. Here we are now: No refineries where not built and the consumer is paying unprecedented prices that result in higher profits for the industry. Chances are the industry will be allowed to build new refineries that don't meet the stricter environmental require, pocketing the savings. The cynic in me has to feel that in no way, even with relaxed environmental regulations, will the industry build capacity to significantly increase supply. Oh well... Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA Keith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
The consumers are voting with their money and SUV seems to get a lot of votes. So helping an SUV consume less is perhaps not a perfect solution but one the market supports.KirkTerry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI Kirk,Do you not think that a hybrid SUV is a conflict considering that many small cars such as a Toyota Echo get better gas milage than a hybrid SUV? What might be better would be a Smart Car size vehicle with a diesel plug in Electric Hybrid.Terry DyckFrom: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] No New RefineriesDate: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:20:05 -0700 (PDT)I suspect with the projected prices and profits that they will not need new refineries. When fuel hits $5 as I suspect it will most of us wont take motor vacations etc. Carpooling will be back in vogue and SUVs will be hybrids. KirkDoug Younker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: This is one of those times I smell a rat, but can't find/prove it. Inregards to environmental requirements, in the industry previouslyclaimed the costs where too high and the consumer wouldn't pay theprice. Here we are now: No refineries where not built and the consumeris paying unprecedented prices that result in higher profits for theindustry. Chances are the industry will be allowed to build newrefineries that don't meet the stricter environmental require, pocketingthe savings. The cynic in me has to feel that in no way, even withrelaxed environmental regulations, will the industry build capacity tosignificantly increase supply. Oh well...Doug, N0LKKKansas USAKeith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
Hello David Building new refiniries will not reduce the price of crude. It is based on global demand. The Chinese and Indians are rapidly moving from bicycles to automobiles. This is why the price of crude is $70+ for a barrel. One reason. And this is why bio based feedstocks for fuel are going to become economically viable, irrespective of environmental concerns/benefits. One reason, again, there are others. If crude were at $25/barrel we would not be having this conversation. We were having this conversation when oil was $25 a barrel, and less, and saying, along with the OECD, and many American list members, that US fuel prices were way too cheap and the sooner it hit $5 a gallon the better. You should spend some time browsing the list archives. Best Keith David - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries This is one of those times I smell a rat, but can't find/prove it. In regards to environmental requirements, in the industry previously claimed the costs where too high and the consumer wouldn't pay the price. Here we are now: No refineries where not built and the consumer is paying unprecedented prices that result in higher profits for the industry. Chances are the industry will be allowed to build new refineries that don't meet the stricter environmental require, pocketing the savings. The cynic in me has to feel that in no way, even with relaxed environmental regulations, will the industry build capacity to significantly increase supply. Oh well... Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA Keith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
Keith, I've recently joined this list and I will peruse the archives. I should have referenced the $25 barrel at today's dollar value. At $5/Gal (present value) we will be ripping up strip malls to plant rape seed.fields. Looking forward to talking to you again. David Sikes - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries Hello David Building new refiniries will not reduce the price of crude. It is based on global demand. The Chinese and Indians are rapidly moving from bicycles to automobiles. This is why the price of crude is $70+ for a barrel. One reason. And this is why bio based feedstocks for fuel are going to become economically viable, irrespective of environmental concerns/benefits. One reason, again, there are others. If crude were at $25/barrel we would not be having this conversation. We were having this conversation when oil was $25 a barrel, and less, and saying, along with the OECD, and many American list members, that US fuel prices were way too cheap and the sooner it hit $5 a gallon the better. You should spend some time browsing the list archives. Best Keith David - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries This is one of those times I smell a rat, but can't find/prove it. In regards to environmental requirements, in the industry previously claimed the costs where too high and the consumer wouldn't pay the price. Here we are now: No refineries where not built and the consumer is paying unprecedented prices that result in higher profits for the industry. Chances are the industry will be allowed to build new refineries that don't meet the stricter environmental require, pocketing the savings. The cynic in me has to feel that in no way, even with relaxed environmental regulations, will the industry build capacity to significantly increase supply. Oh well... Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA Keith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
Hello David Keith, I've recently joined this list Welcome. and I will peruse the archives. A lot of people spend a lot of time there. On this subject, you might start with these: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg00166.html [biofuel] Re: oil reserves 9 Apr 2000 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg00599.html [biofuel] oil prices 29 Sep 2000 Try a search for Matt Simmons: http://snipurl.com/jgi7 Search results for 'Simmons' Or for Michael T Klare: http://snipurl.com/hkon Search results for 'Klare' Or whatever grabs you, it's easy to pick up the threads (the whole thread is linked at the end of the page). I should have referenced the $25 barrel at today's dollar value. At $5/Gal (present value) we will be ripping up strip malls to plant rape seed.fields. Fair exchange I guess. Depends what kind of rapeseed fields, agribusiness monocrops? The NBB wouldn't like that though, but Big Oil probably wouldn't mind much. Previous responses: I suspect with the projected prices and profits that they will not need new refineries. When fuel hits $5 as I suspect it will most of us wont take motor vacations etc. Carpooling will be back in vogue and SUVs will be hybrids. I'm already paying nearlly 8 dollars a UK gallon for diesel, people are addicted to their cars. Car use still increases here in the UK even as the price of fuel keeps going up. Chris. It's $5 a gallon in Japan now, but it's three years since I paid for fuel. We only use a couple of hundred gallons a year anyway. Have you read this? How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch Looking forward to talking to you again. Same. Best Keith David Sikes - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries Hello David Building new refiniries will not reduce the price of crude. It is based on global demand. The Chinese and Indians are rapidly moving from bicycles to automobiles. This is why the price of crude is $70+ for a barrel. One reason. And this is why bio based feedstocks for fuel are going to become economically viable, irrespective of environmental concerns/benefits. One reason, again, there are others. If crude were at $25/barrel we would not be having this conversation. We were having this conversation when oil was $25 a barrel, and less, and saying, along with the OECD, and many American list members, that US fuel prices were way too cheap and the sooner it hit $5 a gallon the better. You should spend some time browsing the list archives. Best Keith David - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries This is one of those times I smell a rat, but can't find/prove it. In regards to environmental requirements, in the industry previously claimed the costs where too high and the consumer wouldn't pay the price. Here we are now: No refineries where not built and the consumer is paying unprecedented prices that result in higher profits for the industry. Chances are the industry will be allowed to build new refineries that don't meet the stricter environmental require, pocketing the savings. The cynic in me has to feel that in no way, even with relaxed environmental regulations, will the industry build capacity to significantly increase supply. Oh well... Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA Keith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
No; building refineries will not reduce the price of crude. Products refined from crude are traded as commodities. Along with the supply and demand of crude, the supply and demand of refined products also affects the price the consumer pays for those products. The question can become if the industry is making money in the current situation, will it build new refineries given relaxed regulation, if new refineries that may increase supply, resulting in lower prices for the refined product. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA chem.dd wrote: Building new refiniries will not reduce the price of crude. It is based on global demand. The Chinese and Indians are rapidly moving from bicycles to automobiles. This is why the price of crude is $70+ for a barrel. And this is why bio based feedstocks for fuel are going to become economically viable, irrespective of environmental concerns/benefits. If crude were at $25/barrel we would not be having this conversation. David - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries This is one of those times I smell a rat, but can't find/prove it. In regards to environmental requirements, in the industry previously claimed the costs where too high and the consumer wouldn't pay the price. Here we are now: No refineries where not built and the consumer is paying unprecedented prices that result in higher profits for the industry. Chances are the industry will be allowed to build new refineries that don't meet the stricter environmental require, pocketing the savings. The cynic in me has to feel that in no way, even with relaxed environmental regulations, will the industry build capacity to significantly increase supply. Oh well... Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA Keith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
I suspect with the projected prices and profits that they will not need new refineries. When fuel hits $5 as I suspect it will most of us wont take motor vacations etc. Carpooling will be back in vogue and SUVs will be hybrids.KirkDoug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of those times I smell a rat, but can't find/prove it. In regards to environmental requirements, in the industry previously claimed the costs where too high and the consumer wouldn't pay the price. Here we are now: No refineries where not built and the consumer is paying unprecedented prices that result in higher profits for the industry. Chances are the industry will be allowed to build new refineries that don't meet the stricter environmental require, pocketing the savings. The cynic in me has to feel that in no way, even with relaxed environmental regulations, will the industry build capacity to significantly increase supply. Oh well...Doug, N0LKKKansas USAKeith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
I suspect with the projected prices and profits that they will not need new refineries. When fuel hits $5 as I suspect it will most of us wont take motor vacations etc. Carpooling will be back in vogue and SUVs will be hybrids. I'm already paying nearlly 8 dollars a UK gallon for diesel, people are addicted to their cars. Car use still increases here in the UK even as the price of fuel keeps going up. Chris. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
In case you didn't hear, it passed. -John From: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/washington/08energy.html House Passes Bill to Help Spur New Oil Refinery Construction By MICHAEL JANOFSKY Published: June 8, 2006 WASHINGTON, June 7 — The House passed a bill on Wednesday that its Republican sponsors said would streamline the permit process to build the first domestic oil refineries in a generation. The vote was largely along party lines, 238 to 179, closely mirroring a vote on the same bill last month, when 237 lawmakers supported it in a procedure that required two-thirds approval for passage. The bill would create a federal coordinator to manage the permit process for a new refinery by bringing together agencies from all levels of government. Another provision would require the president to identify at least three closed military bases as suitable refinery sites, a provision that President Bush supports. For now, the Senate has no comparable bill under consideration. Citing the rising demand for oil products and an industry operating at near peak capacity, the bill's proponents said new refineries would create added supplies. Representative Joe L. Barton, Republican of Texas, who is chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee and a chief sponsor of the bill, said it was intended to show America that we're doing everything possible to alleviate high energy prices. But detractors argued that the measure would have little bearing on gas prices and was largely unnecessary, saying that the energy bill passed last year had suitable provisions for refinery construction. They also said oil company executives have told Congress that adding capacity through expansion makes more economic sense than building new facilities, with its risks of community opposition. Company executives have also testified that environmental laws have not impeded expansion plans. Between September 2004 and September 2005, refiners have made 255 percent profit, said Representative Rick Boucher, Democrat of Virginia, who was leading the opposition to the bill. When you're doing that well, why would you change anything? While the number of domestic refineries has fallen to 148 from 324 since 1981, largely through mergers and consolidation, American oil companies are producing about 17.3 million barrels of the daily demand of 21 million barrels of oil and have plans to add 1.4 million to 2 million barrels a day over the next several years. The last time a refinery was built in the United States was 1976. Alan Greenspan, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday that sharply higher oil prices have not seriously hurt economic activity in this country or around the world. However, he added, Recent data indicate we may finally be experiencing some impact. On Jun 11, 2006, at 6:04 AM, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell June 06, 2006 Frank O'Donnell is president of Clean Air Watch , a 501(c)3 nonpartisan, nonprofit organization aimed at educating the public about clean air and the need for an effective Clean Air Act. Sterling Burnett, a senior fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis (and Exxon defender) recently compared Al Gore to Joseph Goebbels for his new film An Inconvenient Truth. If there is a Goebbels reference to be made it should start with the Big Lie and it is not to Al Gore that it applies. Goebbels is credited with inventing the idea that if you repeat a lie often enough it eventually will be believed. Naturally, conservatives think that if they keep using Gore and Nazi-environmentalist in the same sentence pretty soon the rest of us will, too. And, painful as it is to draw the analogy, it's deplorable to see a similar tactic being used today by congressional Republicans, who seem desperate to find a scapegoat for high gasoline prices. In this case, the Big Lie involves politicians and others scapegoating environmental requirements for blocking the construction of new oil refineries. With the House planning to vote this week on yet another bogus bill which ostensibly is designed to promote more refining, it might be worth examining both the rhetoric and the reality. Here's the Big Lie, as uttered May 3 on the House floor by Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee and a principal sponsor of new refinery legislation: The last American refinery to be built from scratch in this country was over 30 years agoŠ. It takes as long as 10 years just to get the permit to build or expand [an] existing refinery. And here's what President George W. Bush said, in a speech on April 25: There has not been a new refinery built in America in 30 years. Again on May 16, Bush said: There has not been a single new refinery built in
[Biofuel] No New Refineries
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell June 06, 2006 Frank O'Donnell is president of Clean Air Watch , a 501(c)3 nonpartisan, nonprofit organization aimed at educating the public about clean air and the need for an effective Clean Air Act. Sterling Burnett, a senior fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis (and Exxon defender) recently compared Al Gore to Joseph Goebbels for his new film An Inconvenient Truth. If there is a Goebbels reference to be made it should start with the Big Lie and it is not to Al Gore that it applies. Goebbels is credited with inventing the idea that if you repeat a lie often enough it eventually will be believed. Naturally, conservatives think that if they keep using Gore and Nazi-environmentalist in the same sentence pretty soon the rest of us will, too. And, painful as it is to draw the analogy, it's deplorable to see a similar tactic being used today by congressional Republicans, who seem desperate to find a scapegoat for high gasoline prices. In this case, the Big Lie involves politicians and others scapegoating environmental requirements for blocking the construction of new oil refineries. With the House planning to vote this week on yet another bogus bill which ostensibly is designed to promote more refining, it might be worth examining both the rhetoric and the reality. Here's the Big Lie, as uttered May 3 on the House floor by Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee and a principal sponsor of new refinery legislation: The last American refinery to be built from scratch in this country was over 30 years ago. It takes as long as 10 years just to get the permit to build or expand [an] existing refinery. And here's what President George W. Bush said, in a speech on April 25: There has not been a new refinery built in America in 30 years. Again on May 16, Bush said: There has not been a single new refinery built in America since 1976. This mindless mantra is generally accompanied by calls to streamline or simplify environmental permit requirements-the implication being that if only we could shut up those mouthy environmentalists, we'd have lots more refineries and be enjoying 99-cents-per-gallon gasoline. That rhetoric is the wind in the sails of the House Republican bill. This bill would have the president designate at least three closed military bases as sites for new refineries, and call for creation of a federal refinery czar-technically called a federal coordinator-to speed along permit applications. It's tempting to not to let the facts get in the way of a good story, but even the oil industry itself admits this issue is a red herring. For example, the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association conceded at a May 23 Senate hearing on price gouging that gasoline supplies were temporarily tight. But the oil industry lobby went on to note that: This situation will ultimately be addressed through announced additions to U.S. refinery capacity, estimated at 1.4 to 2.0 million barrels per day. This is an 8-11percent increase in U.S. capacity, which should be in place by 2010 at the latest. over the past 10 years, domestic refining has increased by an average of 177,000 barrels per day of production each year or the equivalent of building one new, larger than average refinery each year. This fact should assuage some concerns about the fact that no new grassroots refinery has been built in the U.S. in over 30 years. Indeed, at a Senate hearing last year, BP's chief executive officer explained that [refinery] margins over the last 10 to 15 years have not been high enough on average to justify building a new refinery. And in a recent closed-door briefing with congressional aides, an Exxon Mobil official said that company foresees no need to build new refineries at least through the year 2030. If that weren't fast enough, last year's Energy Policy Act included provisions to coordinate state and federal permitting for new refineries. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman hailed the refinery provisions as easing the constraints on new refinery construction. So much for the baloney about no new refineries. But what about the related argument about alleged barriers and permit delays for expansions of existing refineries? First, note that all the expansions mentioned above have taken place and are expected to continue without any change in current rules. Backing up that experience, CEOs for BP, Shell and Conoco all testified to Congress last year that environmental requirements have not blocked a single planned refinery expansion. And, contrary to Joe Barton's wild assertion, then-EPA administrator Carol Browner testified to Congress in 2000 that about half the permit modifications for refineries were issued within five months and that most of the others were issued within a year. That conclusion
Re: [Biofuel] No New Refineries
This is one of those times I smell a rat, but can't find/prove it. In regards to environmental requirements, in the industry previously claimed the costs where too high and the consumer wouldn't pay the price. Here we are now: No refineries where not built and the consumer is paying unprecedented prices that result in higher profits for the industry. Chances are the industry will be allowed to build new refineries that don't meet the stricter environmental require, pocketing the savings. The cynic in me has to feel that in no way, even with relaxed environmental regulations, will the industry build capacity to significantly increase supply. Oh well... Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA Keith Addison wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/no_new_refineries.php No New Refineries Frank O'Donnell ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
