Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Back Online
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Shawn Zenor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Hakan Falk wrote: Only in America!!! snip Hardwood is mostly a tropical or sub tropical tree and how can US use this for pallets and at the same time be upset about the deforestation of the remaining oxygen suppliers of the world. The hardwood of Europe was by tradition the property of the Kings, wherever it was rooted, because of its value for building ships and as structural building material. In this case oak was a strategic defense material. Oak used as structure for buildings, was inherited and reused for new buildings. The value of oak was almost comparable to gold a few hundred years ago. Hakan I reuse as many of them as I can for building furniture or small projects- I'm sorry to say that you really can find some fine woods in pallets- cedar, walnut, cherry, almost anything... it's crazy. I seeing a few businesses in New Mexico that used reclaimed pallet wood for furniture too. As far as Americans being concerned about deforestation- clearly they are not. Look who 'we' voted into the white house Shawn (waiting for Hawai`i to secede) Volkswagen camper rentals in Hawaii Hawaii÷Oahu÷Maui Imua Camper Company http://www.imua-tour.com 45 Shipman Street, Hilo HI 96720 Reservations: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- 1(877)773-4682 Hilo office (phone/fax) 1(808)935-6241 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Back Online
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a local guy recycling wood here for a while - he got some great stuff from pallets. One was a valuable African hardwood, prized by instrument makers. That one piece, from a pallet he got for free, was worth a few hundred dollars to the right buyer. It was very dense hardwood - can't recall the type. He was shocked and amazed at his find. There is some pallet reuse and recycling going on, but not enough. The fellow I mention is out of business here, and working in an oil resource town now. Edward Beggs On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 12:17 PM, Neil and Adele Craven wrote: - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:37 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Back Online snippo Even the fast growing teak, developed mainly in central and south America, takes at least 2-4 the time to mature as pine trees and it is questionable if it is still hardwood. The fast growing teak is softer, but still have the natural defense against humidity and insects. Hakan, hardness has nothing to do with whether a tree is a hardwood or a softwood, this is really a misnomer. Balsa wood is a hardwood. It is all related to whether the tree is pored or nonpored. With hardwoods being pored. In fact the correct terminology is Angiosperm, seeds in fruit, broadleaves, pored timber (hardwoods) and Gymnosperms, naked seeds in cones, usually narrow leaves, non pored timber (softwoods) Neil Canberra snippo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: RE: [biofuel] Back Online
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr. Falk: Your information was exaggerated and dated. The hardwood pallet made in the U.S., are reused. Most of the wood pallets have been replaced with a longer life plastic pallets of one design or another. When wood pallets where in use, they where constantly reused, until breakage. If broken they where rebuilt, and used again. Until they where beyond repair. Then usually someone would take them home, and burns them to heat their house. It was more cost effective to use a low quality hardwood for pallets because they would last long than using a softwood. It use to save money and trees to use hardwoods in pallet construction. That is until a long life plastic pallet became more cost affective. Only in America! Harley Fellion -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 10:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Back Online Only in America!!! I was not aware of that US made pallets of hardwood and did not think that it could ever be a stupid luxury consumption like this. I can see reason for some pallets to be made of hardwood, but they should be guarded and reused. But this irresponsible behavior cannot be excused. Six pallets of hardwood per American in land fills, give me a break! I am of the opinion that it is almost a sin to use hardwood for pallets in the first place. How can you use types of trees that take 50 to 100 years to mature for purposes like this. Hardwood is also very stupid to put in landfills, because of the long time it takes to disintegrate. If you really need to waste hardwood, effective burning is probably the best. Compared to the pallets we mostly use in Europe, made of pine tree, hardwood take 4-8 times longer to mature. Even the fast growing teak, developed mainly in central and south America, takes at least 2-4 the time to mature as pine trees and it is questionable if it is still hardwood. The fast growing teak is softer, but still have the natural defense against humidity and insects. Hardwood is mostly a tropical or sub tropical tree and how can US use this for pallets and at the same time be upset about the deforestation of the remaining oxygen suppliers of the world. The hardwood of Europe was by tradition the property of the Kings, wherever it was rooted, because of its value for building ships and as structural building material. In this case oak was a strategic defense material. Oak used as structure for buildings, was inherited and reused for new buildings. The value of oak was almost comparable to gold a few hundred years ago. Hakan At 07:25 AM 11/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Re wasted wood, I picked this up somewhere or other, for the US, not Canada: In 1999, for instance, 7.5 million tons of wooden pallets - platforms associated with shipping - went into the solid waste stream, accounting for over 60 percent of all wood waste. And: There are an estimated 6 hardwood palletts in landfill for every resident of the US. snip Indeed! I used to collect hardwood pallets, cut them up and burn them. Over the course of the average winter, my family burned 8 tons of wood like this. We hadn't paid for heat in years! Making the leap back into fossil fueled residential heating was a hard decision for me. I like the automaticity of our natural gas boiler, but we haven't received a bill yet . . . I just posted this somewhere else: ... the United States is now far from being a sustainable society, and in many respects is further away than it was at the time of the Earth Summit in 1992. Unlike many other developed countries, the United States has not used a strategic process to move the country toward a sustainable future and has not educated the American people about the opportunities and challenges of sustainable development. snip I've been lamenting about this for at least 30 years. That's one of the reasons I'm here. robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Back Online
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, Keith talked about hardwood pallets in US land fills as six per American. This means nearly 2 billion hardwood pallets in land fills. The shear size of this made me quite upset. I know that the Americans are second best in the world after the Canadians, in wasting energy resources. But dumping 2 billion hardwood pallets in landfills takes the price. Here is at least one who see the light, Shawn Zenor from http://www.imua-tour.com , Hawaii wrote: snip I reuse as many of them as I can for building furniture or small projects- I'm sorry to say that you really can find some fine woods in pallets- cedar, walnut, cherry, almost anything... it's crazy. I seeing a few businesses in New Mexico that used reclaimed pallet wood for furniture too. snip Hakan At 03:25 PM 11/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hakan Falk wrote: Only in America!!! Actually, I live in Canada. . . The pallets I used to cut up and burn came from Quebec. The hardwood baseboards we've just installed in our house came from Chile. It's not only a shame that hardwood is misused this way, but also that it has to be shipped (at great energy cost) across the continent or the oceans to get here. In defense of the industry, however, there are some pallets that require hardwood because of the nature of the materials shipped upon them. The stuff I used to collect for burning carried huge spools of aluminum that would break a softwood pallet. It's what we do with them afterwards that's a bigger shame. robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: RE: [biofuel] Back Online
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Harley, If you are right, I will sleep better. Knowing that the landfill now is long life plastic pallets. At least it is dumped in American land fills. Something for future Archeological excavations, if some one is left to do such activities. Hakan At 03:32 PM 11/24/2002 -0600, you wrote: Dear Mr. Falk: Your information was exaggerated and dated. The hardwood pallet made in the U.S., are reused. Most of the wood pallets have been replaced with a longer life plastic pallets of one design or another. When wood pallets where in use, they where constantly reused, until breakage. If broken they where rebuilt, and used again. Until they where beyond repair. Then usually someone would take them home, and burns them to heat their house. It was more cost effective to use a low quality hardwood for pallets because they would last long than using a softwood. It use to save money and trees to use hardwoods in pallet construction. That is until a long life plastic pallet became more cost affective. Only in America! Harley Fellion -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 10:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Back Online Only in America!!! I was not aware of that US made pallets of hardwood and did not think that it could ever be a stupid luxury consumption like this. I can see reason for some pallets to be made of hardwood, but they should be guarded and reused. But this irresponsible behavior cannot be excused. Six pallets of hardwood per American in land fills, give me a break! I am of the opinion that it is almost a sin to use hardwood for pallets in the first place. How can you use types of trees that take 50 to 100 years to mature for purposes like this. Hardwood is also very stupid to put in landfills, because of the long time it takes to disintegrate. If you really need to waste hardwood, effective burning is probably the best. Compared to the pallets we mostly use in Europe, made of pine tree, hardwood take 4-8 times longer to mature. Even the fast growing teak, developed mainly in central and south America, takes at least 2-4 the time to mature as pine trees and it is questionable if it is still hardwood. The fast growing teak is softer, but still have the natural defense against humidity and insects. Hardwood is mostly a tropical or sub tropical tree and how can US use this for pallets and at the same time be upset about the deforestation of the remaining oxygen suppliers of the world. The hardwood of Europe was by tradition the property of the Kings, wherever it was rooted, because of its value for building ships and as structural building material. In this case oak was a strategic defense material. Oak used as structure for buildings, was inherited and reused for new buildings. The value of oak was almost comparable to gold a few hundred years ago. Hakan At 07:25 AM 11/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Re wasted wood, I picked this up somewhere or other, for the US, not Canada: In 1999, for instance, 7.5 million tons of wooden pallets - platforms associated with shipping - went into the solid waste stream, accounting for over 60 percent of all wood waste. And: There are an estimated 6 hardwood palletts in landfill for every resident of the US. snip Indeed! I used to collect hardwood pallets, cut them up and burn them. Over the course of the average winter, my family burned 8 tons of wood like this. We hadn't paid for heat in years! Making the leap back into fossil fueled residential heating was a hard decision for me. I like the automaticity of our natural gas boiler, but we haven't received a bill yet . . . I just posted this somewhere else: ... the United States is now far from being a sustainable society, and in many respects is further away than it was at the time of the Earth Summit in 1992. Unlike many other developed countries, the United States has not used a strategic process to move the country toward a sustainable future and has not educated the American people about the opportunities and challenges of sustainable development. snip I've been lamenting about this for at least 30 years. That's one of the reasons I'm here. robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Back Online
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting I was just thinking about this while up in Berkley and seeing all the lonely pallets just lying around. It's a shame. I don't know home much of the industry still contiunes to use hardwood pallets, but there is a growing number of softwood pallets that several of the companies I have worked for seem to have shipped stuff on. Anyway one looks at it the pallets could be utilized for something other than being thrown away. I have 3 pallets framing my compost pile which is great use. I wonder if the folks at Arkenol have done some studys with old pallets, or even Dynamotive. Seems that the reclaimed pallet market would be HUGE for making fuels!! James Slayden On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Robert, Keith talked about hardwood pallets in US land fills as six per American. This means nearly 2 billion hardwood pallets in land fills. The shear size of this made me quite upset. I know that the Americans are second best in the world after the Canadians, in wasting energy resources. But dumping 2 billion hardwood pallets in landfills takes the price. Here is at least one who see the light, Shawn Zenor from http://www.imua-tour.com , Hawaii wrote: snip I reuse as many of them as I can for building furniture or small projects- I'm sorry to say that you really can find some fine woods in pallets- cedar, walnut, cherry, almost anything... it's crazy. I seeing a few businesses in New Mexico that used reclaimed pallet wood for furniture too. snip Hakan At 03:25 PM 11/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hakan Falk wrote: Only in America!!! Actually, I live in Canada. . . The pallets I used to cut up and burn came from Quebec. The hardwood baseboards we've just installed in our house came from Chile. It's not only a shame that hardwood is misused this way, but also that it has to be shipped (at great energy cost) across the continent or the oceans to get here. In defense of the industry, however, there are some pallets that require hardwood because of the nature of the materials shipped upon them. The stuff I used to collect for burning carried huge spools of aluminum that would break a softwood pallet. It's what we do with them afterwards that's a bigger shame. robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: RE: [biofuel] Back Online
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure that reclaimation of the landfills will happen well before Archeologists have a chance to study it. ;-) Someone will realize that mining the landfills produces much wealth. James Slayden On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Dear Harley, If you are right, I will sleep better. Knowing that the landfill now is long life plastic pallets. At least it is dumped in American land fills. Something for future Archeological excavations, if some one is left to do such activities. Hakan At 03:32 PM 11/24/2002 -0600, you wrote: Dear Mr. Falk: Your information was exaggerated and dated. The hardwood pallet made in the U.S., are reused. Most of the wood pallets have been replaced with a longer life plastic pallets of one design or another. When wood pallets where in use, they where constantly reused, until breakage. If broken they where rebuilt, and used again. Until they where beyond repair. Then usually someone would take them home, and burns them to heat their house. It was more cost effective to use a low quality hardwood for pallets because they would last long than using a softwood. It use to save money and trees to use hardwoods in pallet construction. That is until a long life plastic pallet became more cost affective. Only in America! Harley Fellion -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 10:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Back Online Only in America!!! I was not aware of that US made pallets of hardwood and did not think that it could ever be a stupid luxury consumption like this. I can see reason for some pallets to be made of hardwood, but they should be guarded and reused. But this irresponsible behavior cannot be excused. Six pallets of hardwood per American in land fills, give me a break! I am of the opinion that it is almost a sin to use hardwood for pallets in the first place. How can you use types of trees that take 50 to 100 years to mature for purposes like this. Hardwood is also very stupid to put in landfills, because of the long time it takes to disintegrate. If you really need to waste hardwood, effective burning is probably the best. Compared to the pallets we mostly use in Europe, made of pine tree, hardwood take 4-8 times longer to mature. Even the fast growing teak, developed mainly in central and south America, takes at least 2-4 the time to mature as pine trees and it is questionable if it is still hardwood. The fast growing teak is softer, but still have the natural defense against humidity and insects. Hardwood is mostly a tropical or sub tropical tree and how can US use this for pallets and at the same time be upset about the deforestation of the remaining oxygen suppliers of the world. The hardwood of Europe was by tradition the property of the Kings, wherever it was rooted, because of its value for building ships and as structural building material. In this case oak was a strategic defense material. Oak used as structure for buildings, was inherited and reused for new buildings. The value of oak was almost comparable to gold a few hundred years ago. Hakan At 07:25 AM 11/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Re wasted wood, I picked this up somewhere or other, for the US, not Canada: In 1999, for instance, 7.5 million tons of wooden pallets - platforms associated with shipping - went into the solid waste stream, accounting for over 60 percent of all wood waste. And: There are an estimated 6 hardwood palletts in landfill for every resident of the US. snip Indeed! I used to collect hardwood pallets, cut them up and burn them. Over the course of the average winter, my family burned 8 tons of wood like this. We hadn't paid for heat in years! Making the leap back into fossil fueled residential heating was a hard decision for me. I like the automaticity of our natural gas boiler, but we haven't received a bill yet . . . I just posted this somewhere else: ... the United States is now far from being a sustainable society, and in many respects is further away than it was at the time of the Earth Summit in 1992. Unlike many other developed countries, the United States has not used a strategic process to move the country toward a sustainable future and has not educated the American people about the opportunities and challenges of sustainable development. snip I've been lamenting about this for at least 30 years. That's one of the reasons I'm here. robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Fwd: RE: [biofuel] Back Online
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James, You are probably right :-( . With current oil depletion it will be very high value. No proof left of our generations stupid behavior. Hakan At 04:07 PM 11/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: I'm sure that reclaimation of the landfills will happen well before Archeologists have a chance to study it. ;-) Someone will realize that mining the landfills produces much wealth. James Slayden On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Dear Harley, If you are right, I will sleep better. Knowing that the landfill now is long life plastic pallets. At least it is dumped in American land fills. Something for future Archeological excavations, if some one is left to do such activities. Hakan At 03:32 PM 11/24/2002 -0600, you wrote: Dear Mr. Falk: Your information was exaggerated and dated. The hardwood pallet made in the U.S., are reused. Most of the wood pallets have been replaced with a longer life plastic pallets of one design or another. When wood pallets where in use, they where constantly reused, until breakage. If broken they where rebuilt, and used again. Until they where beyond repair. Then usually someone would take them home, and burns them to heat their house. It was more cost effective to use a low quality hardwood for pallets because they would last long than using a softwood. It use to save money and trees to use hardwoods in pallet construction. That is until a long life plastic pallet became more cost affective. Only in America! Harley Fellion -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 10:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Back Online Only in America!!! I was not aware of that US made pallets of hardwood and did not think that it could ever be a stupid luxury consumption like this. I can see reason for some pallets to be made of hardwood, but they should be guarded and reused. But this irresponsible behavior cannot be excused. Six pallets of hardwood per American in land fills, give me a break! I am of the opinion that it is almost a sin to use hardwood for pallets in the first place. How can you use types of trees that take 50 to 100 years to mature for purposes like this. Hardwood is also very stupid to put in landfills, because of the long time it takes to disintegrate. If you really need to waste hardwood, effective burning is probably the best. Compared to the pallets we mostly use in Europe, made of pine tree, hardwood take 4-8 times longer to mature. Even the fast growing teak, developed mainly in central and south America, takes at least 2-4 the time to mature as pine trees and it is questionable if it is still hardwood. The fast growing teak is softer, but still have the natural defense against humidity and insects. Hardwood is mostly a tropical or sub tropical tree and how can US use this for pallets and at the same time be upset about the deforestation of the remaining oxygen suppliers of the world. The hardwood of Europe was by tradition the property of the Kings, wherever it was rooted, because of its value for building ships and as structural building material. In this case oak was a strategic defense material. Oak used as structure for buildings, was inherited and reused for new buildings. The value of oak was almost comparable to gold a few hundred years ago. Hakan At 07:25 AM 11/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Re wasted wood, I picked this up somewhere or other, for the US, not Canada: In 1999, for instance, 7.5 million tons of wooden pallets - platforms associated with shipping - went into the solid waste stream, accounting for over 60 percent of all wood waste. And: There are an estimated 6 hardwood palletts in landfill for every resident of the US. snip Indeed! I used to collect hardwood pallets, cut them up and burn them. Over the course of the average winter, my family burned 8 tons of wood like this. We hadn't paid for heat in years! Making the leap back into fossil fueled residential heating was a hard decision for me. I like the automaticity of our natural gas boiler, but we haven't received a bill yet . . . I just posted this somewhere else: ... the United States is now far from being a sustainable society, and in many respects is further away than it was at the time of the Earth Summit in 1992. Unlike many other developed countries, the United States has not used a strategic process to move the country toward a
