Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at theRESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Robert I do not disagree with you. Some times, though, it is difficult to distinguish the purely political from the politics of biofuels. Truly, discussion is an American pastime and must be encouraged. I simply feel that we can achieve better results for both the discussion on politics and for the discussion on biofuels if we were to be more disciplined and focused about topics that are so important. You have my opinion. I'm sure that people who agree and disagree will continue to do so - as they normally do in a discussion. Dom - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at theRESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Domenick V. Amato wrote: Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. Dom Amato Political discussion is VITAL to the future of biofuels. This evening is the first time since I've been a member of this group that I've read a post from you, so perhaps you're new. Many of us have been contributing for a long time (years, even!), and the discussion often yields fruitful information for thought or future experimentation. A certain member, when lamenting the relative uselessness of lightweight modern American trucks for snow plowing, (clearly an off topic post!) mentioned that he runs up to 50% diesel in his small block Chevy powered truck. I've often thought that using a Babington atomizer would be an excellent way to get a spark ignition engine to burn vegetable oil--at least one running at a constant speed for power generation. In fact, I've spent a lot of time thinking about modifying the Babington apparatus as a fuel reforming device. (But I just bought a supercharger for my pathetic, four cylinder Ford Ranger and my longsuffering wife isn't happy with me right now. . . ) The post I mentioned above had nothing to do with biofuels, but the ideas that wove their threads through my mind after reading the message certainly did. I read through well over 100 messages a day, many of them cross posted from wastewatts, the EV list, micro cogeneration and others. Much of that discussion is utterly meaningless to me, but once in awhile I come across something valuable. (So, either read fast, as I do, or filter your messages to limit the content. There is no harm in self imposed censorship!) Trying to limit discussion puts you in the position of being final arbiter of what ideas are acceptable to exchange in this forum. I neither know, nor trust you (yet, anyway!), and from what I've read thus far, I don't think you fully understand the spirit of this particular forum. After all, why shouldn't I be able to talk about the linkage between poor political leadership, the absolute lack of a decent energy policy and the Fundamentalist, Dispensationalist antichristian ideology that supports military action to INCREASE the misery of people who have no ability to defend themselves against us? (I heard an excellent feature this morning on NPR about this very thing! See the link at: http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgId=3prgDate=current The news story was entitled: Evangelicals for War--an oxymoron if there ever SHOULD be one! My interest in reducing energy use and using unconventional fuels necessarily limits the audience with whom I can discuss these issues. Personally, I would like to hear what like minded people are thinking--even if they disagree with me, as many in this forum do. Dissent is NOT unAmerican! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at theRESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Domenick V. Amato wrote: Robert I do not disagree with you. Some times, though, it is difficult to distinguish the purely political from the politics of biofuels. Truly, discussion is an American pastime and must be encouraged. The membership of this list is worldwide, with members from at least 100 countries. Americans are a minority here, and, though a highly valued one, a small number of them tend to forget that. I simply feel that we can achieve better results for both the discussion on politics and for the discussion on biofuels if we were to be more disciplined and focused about topics that are so important. Your view of what's important will have to co-exist with very many other views, many or most of which will not accord with yours. Biofuels and energy issues and their contexts mean vastly different things to different members living in other countries, other cultures - and indeed to many living in your country and your culture, as you've now seen. You have my opinion. I'm sure that people who agree and disagree will continue to do so - as they normally do in a discussion. The trouble with your opinion is that you tried to impose it. That is not acceptable here. Keith Addison Moderator Dom - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at theRESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Domenick V. Amato wrote: Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. Dom Amato Political discussion is VITAL to the future of biofuels. This evening is the first time since I've been a member of this group that I've read a post from you, so perhaps you're new. Many of us have been contributing for a long time (years, even!), and the discussion often yields fruitful information for thought or future experimentation. A certain member, when lamenting the relative uselessness of lightweight modern American trucks for snow plowing, (clearly an off topic post!) mentioned that he runs up to 50% diesel in his small block Chevy powered truck. I've often thought that using a Babington atomizer would be an excellent way to get a spark ignition engine to burn vegetable oil--at least one running at a constant speed for power generation. In fact, I've spent a lot of time thinking about modifying the Babington apparatus as a fuel reforming device. (But I just bought a supercharger for my pathetic, four cylinder Ford Ranger and my longsuffering wife isn't happy with me right now. . . ) The post I mentioned above had nothing to do with biofuels, but the ideas that wove their threads through my mind after reading the message certainly did. I read through well over 100 messages a day, many of them cross posted from wastewatts, the EV list, micro cogeneration and others. Much of that discussion is utterly meaningless to me, but once in awhile I come across something valuable. (So, either read fast, as I do, or filter your messages to limit the content. There is no harm in self imposed censorship!) Trying to limit discussion puts you in the position of being final arbiter of what ideas are acceptable to exchange in this forum. I neither know, nor trust you (yet, anyway!), and from what I've read thus far, I don't think you fully understand the spirit of this particular forum. After all, why shouldn't I be able to talk about the linkage between poor political leadership, the absolute lack of a decent energy policy and the Fundamentalist, Dispensationalist antichristian ideology that supports military action to INCREASE the misery of people who have no ability to defend themselves against us? (I heard an excellent feature this morning on NPR about this very thing! See the link at: http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgId=3prgDate=current The news story was entitled: Evangelicals for War--an oxymoron if there ever SHOULD be one! My interest in reducing energy use and using unconventional fuels necessarily limits the audience with whom I can discuss these issues. Personally, I would like to hear what like minded people are thinking--even if they disagree with me, as many in this forum do. Dissent is NOT unAmerican! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Dom, A majority of postings are about energy related questions. You managed with something very rare. Girl_Mark that is one of the most knowledgeable and that to 99% always share useful information, reacted on one of your stupid (I very seldom use this kind of evaluations) and discriminating postings. Hakan At 10:16 PM 2/26/2003 -0600, you wrote: Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. I suppose that you are talking about your self-indulgence and your attitude seems to be damaging for mankind. We have an excellent moderator for this group and why are you meddling in his job. Dom Amato Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation!
MH wrote: Thank you for the link!! No problem! I find it really interesting that I read the same Bible, pray to the same Jesus and worship faithfully, yet I do not find the same justification for violence in the scriptures that was expressed by fellow believers in that news story. I'm certain that many devout Muslims have the same experience I do. Mr. Bush: I'm Coming for You with Love by Robert Rabbin snip One more thing. Do not underestimate the power of love. Do not add this mistake to the long and growing list of mistakes you have already made. Do not think love is weak, or passive, or fearful. Love created the universe. Love is a power louder than missiles, more powerful than fear, more conquering than hate. Love cannot be stopped, but you can be. And you will be, because I am coming to stop you with love. Powerful words, indeed! After the 11 September atrocity I felt an unspeakable rage against its perpetrators and the people who aided them. I came home to B.C. from Baltimore the following weekend and told my wife that other citizens I'd spoken to were in an equally ugly mood. It's not a pleasant thought to consider that we have more WOMD than everyone else in the world, along with very effective delivery systems. It took several weeks for me to find the courage to forgive, and I must admit that I still struggle with this. If Mr. Bush made a convincing linkage between what happened that September and the need to inflict misery on Iraq, I'd support him. The evidence, however, doesn't convince me. All I see is madness. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. Dom Amato - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. As long as you care to stick your head in the sand you'll never find one, nor realize that this group is about as good as it gets short of breaking Biofuel down into individual sub-sets. Switching lists will not make biofuel of any sort any less political, as you would care to put it. It's your own politics that draw you into the field in the first place. Get over it or get out of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has a great stake in how international administrations handle issues that determine control and use of fossil fuels. Oddly enough, that includes war and rumours of war. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tim Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Greg, Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the Iraqi army. I do no want to do any clear cut final military judgement, but it is my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical nature. They have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and are more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq. You are not joking there. I think the fact that North Korea has been for the most part quiet, is a factor of why were more willing to negotiate. It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and the crippled from previous wars and it is only less than 10% of the population left to consider. The 5% that are left after the heroic US war, will be the ones who vote in a democratic society. It will be some time before women and children, the orphans and widows, get the right to vote and a majority will be violently anti American. I am sure that Hollywood will be able to disguise the realities long enough to give the Americans the be good feeling and also make quite a few bucks when they do it. Realities will come another day. Perhaps, but, I can't help but wonder if we can help make things better for them in the end, if we go in or not, the question will remain. I look at Germany and Japan, and how they were rebuilt from the end of WW2 and wonder if in 30 to 50 years if Iraq will be in a similar situation. Is a war against a majority of children and women the preferred choice or a little bit more patience. In my opinion a war is not a solution, but a proof of failure. The US hysteria about the risk that Iraq would do something to them, are more based assumed revenge feelings with the Iraqis, than any facts. Iraq have never, what I know about, attacked or performed a terrorist act against US. Does anyone seriously think that a new war would remove the basis for the fear? I think that to some extent it might. After talking with some people this past weekend, the thought was expressed, that America at this point has been hurt badly by 9/11, might be lashing out of fear as well pain. Perhaps
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at theRESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Domenick V. Amato wrote: Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. Dom Amato Political discussion is VITAL to the future of biofuels. This evening is the first time since I've been a member of this group that I've read a post from you, so perhaps you're new. Many of us have been contributing for a long time (years, even!), and the discussion often yields fruitful information for thought or future experimentation. A certain member, when lamenting the relative uselessness of lightweight modern American trucks for snow plowing, (clearly an off topic post!) mentioned that he runs up to 50% diesel in his small block Chevy powered truck. I've often thought that using a Babington atomizer would be an excellent way to get a spark ignition engine to burn vegetable oil--at least one running at a constant speed for power generation. In fact, I've spent a lot of time thinking about modifying the Babington apparatus as a fuel reforming device. (But I just bought a supercharger for my pathetic, four cylinder Ford Ranger and my longsuffering wife isn't happy with me right now. . . ) The post I mentioned above had nothing to do with biofuels, but the ideas that wove their threads through my mind after reading the message certainly did. I read through well over 100 messages a day, many of them cross posted from wastewatts, the EV list, micro cogeneration and others. Much of that discussion is utterly meaningless to me, but once in awhile I come across something valuable. (So, either read fast, as I do, or filter your messages to limit the content. There is no harm in self imposed censorship!) Trying to limit discussion puts you in the position of being final arbiter of what ideas are acceptable to exchange in this forum. I neither know, nor trust you (yet, anyway!), and from what I've read thus far, I don't think you fully understand the spirit of this particular forum. After all, why shouldn't I be able to talk about the linkage between poor political leadership, the absolute lack of a decent energy policy and the Fundamentalist, Dispensationalist antichristian ideology that supports military action to INCREASE the misery of people who have no ability to defend themselves against us? (I heard an excellent feature this morning on NPR about this very thing! See the link at: http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgId=3prgDate=current The news story was entitled: Evangelicals for War--an oxymoron if there ever SHOULD be one! My interest in reducing energy use and using unconventional fuels necessarily limits the audience with whom I can discuss these issues. Personally, I would like to hear what like minded people are thinking--even if they disagree with me, as many in this forum do. Dissent is NOT unAmerican! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Ancient Arabian Proverb was Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Ancient Arabian proverb: It is not a wise man who makes much flatulence in a tent filled with strangers. - Original Message - From: Domenick V. Amato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. Dom Amato - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. As long as you care to stick your head in the sand you'll never find one, nor realize that this group is about as good as it gets short of breaking Biofuel down into individual sub-sets. Switching lists will not make biofuel of any sort any less political, as you would care to put it. It's your own politics that draw you into the field in the first place. Get over it or get out of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has a great stake in how international administrations handle issues that determine control and use of fossil fuels. Oddly enough, that includes war and rumours of war. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tim Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Greg, Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the Iraqi army. I do no want to do any clear cut final military judgement, but it is my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical nature. They have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and are more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq. You are not joking there. I think the fact that North Korea has been for the most part quiet, is a factor of why were more willing to negotiate. It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and the crippled from previous wars and it is only less than 10% of the population left to consider. The 5% that are left after the heroic US war, will be the ones who vote in a democratic society. It will be some time before women and children, the orphans and widows, get the right to vote and a majority will be violently anti American. I am sure that Hollywood will be able to disguise the realities long enough to give the Americans the be good feeling and also make quite a few bucks when they do it. Realities will come another day. Perhaps, but, I can't help but wonder if we can help make things better for them in the end, if we go in or not, the question will remain. I look at Germany and Japan, and how they were rebuilt from the end of WW2 and wonder if in 30 to 50 years if Iraq will be in a similar situation. Is a war against a majority of children and women the preferred choice or a little bit more patience. In my opinion a war is not a solution, but a proof of failure. The US hysteria about the risk that Iraq would do
RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Tim Owens wrote: To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. That's up to you, but it is most certainly about biofuels. From a couple of days ago: At the moment there's a lot, much more than usual, of what you'd call off-topic posts that others think are on-topic, but even so, even taking your view of it, more than two-thirds of the posts in the last three days are about biofuels issues - more than that if you take closely related subjects, like the rising cost of gasoline in the US (making biodiesel more cost-competitive, right?). But, suit yourself, of course. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Why? Anyway, nobody's forcing you to read anything. Messages have subject lines, if you're not interested, ignore them or delete them. ??? Doesn't your email program have filters? Do you use them? Can't you select messages in your filtered mailboxes according to subject? Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. Nothing's stopping you. You asked for info on making ethanol, and you very quickly got it, but didn't say any more about it, and since then you've said nothing about biofuels, just complained about allegedly off-topic posts that nobody's forcing you to read. If you have something more you want to discuss then please do so. It has nothing to do with what I agree or disagree. But I don't want to waist my time sorting through email that has no relevance to the topic in which I am interested. I wanted to learn about making my own biofuel and alternative energy sources. The ironic thing is... I want to learn these things BECAUSE... of the politics you keep discussing. So then it all does have some slight bearing on biofuels issues maybe? So what do you want me to do, ban it? But I asked you that, and you offer no sensible suggestions, just complaints. I think we are in trouble... and no matter who is in charge the out come is the same. Iraq IS making bio-weaponry. North Korea IS making nuclear weapons. So do we... someone IS going start IT. There is no way around it. I am opposed to war, but war is inevitable. So personally I want to be prepared. I KNOW my views, and you know yours. You can't change mine Set in concrete, are they, no matter what happens, no matter what new information comes your way? Hm. and I don't care to change yours. I just want to be prepared. You came to the right place, but if you want to be at odds with it, I can't help that. Good luck and God bless. And you. Keith Tim Owens Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Keith, At 05:05 PM 2/25/2003 +0900, you wrote: Tim Owens wrote: To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. snip sniP Anyway, nobody's forcing you to read anything. Messages have subject lines, if you're not interested, ignore them or delete them. ??? Doesn't your email program have filters? Do you use them? Can't you select messages in your filtered mailboxes according to subject? This Tim Owens must also be new to Internet, if he has not learned about the necessity to use filters. Two thirds of my 100+ email per day, most of them are directly or indirectly US as source, and they suggest, Email the whole world That I should enlarge my penis Buy Viagra or other sex enhancing drugs Look at all kind of kinky sex Peep and talk with sexy girls and boys Meet women for sex Not pay my debts Get rich without doing anything Pyramid schemes Buying toys and other products in US Helping people to stash away money etc. etc. etc. It is impossible to be connected without a mail filter. It is obviously a representation of what is in most American minds and others also for that matter. If not, it would not find a market and would not be so common. Then I turn on CNN on the TV and it is full of interesting news and American propaganda. At the moment the arguments for the American right of deciding who is good and who is bad for the rest of the world. It also support the strong argument, that since US is superior, they have the right to decide if they want to kill the bad people that are not doing what they want. Then I turn on the Spanish or other language TV stations and are fed with more American superiority, in the form of films and TV series, were the American heros goes out and after some difficulties kill all the bad guys. After all of this, I find this discussion list very relevant and important. A lot of interesting international people with interesting views and most of the time related to alternative energy questions and problems around it. Tim will miss something, but I do not really care and will not try to force him to participate. But since it is a personal decision and he had to tell us, he did the same off subject thing as he accuses others for, talk about being hypocritical. Many moderators would never let a posting like Tim Owens go trough, because they are afraid that others will be effected. I take my hat off for Keith who does and so often have the patience to explain his philosophy as moderator over and over again. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. Biofuels at Journey to Forever. snip Keith Tim Owens This time I did not care about the flames, it was no way to avoid it. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:19, you wrote: To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. Don't be so thin skinned! Ask the questions all will be revealed!. I get about 75 emails/day myself. I just skim them delete the ones I am not interested in (sometimes with filter) I don't think you will find a more knowledgeable bunch than ours, anyway all is revealed on J24ever, so whats the prob? Surely you don't support the war regards Doug Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
As long as you care to stick your head in the sand you'll never find one, nor realize that this group is about as good as it gets short of breaking Biofuel down into individual sub-sets. Switching lists will not make biofuel of any sort any less political, as you would care to put it. It's your own politics that draw you into the field in the first place. Get over it or get out of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has a great stake in how international administrations handle issues that determine control and use of fossil fuels. Oddly enough, that includes war and rumours of war. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tim Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Greg, Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the Iraqi army. I do no want to do any clear cut final military judgement, but it is my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical nature. They have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and are more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq. You are not joking there. I think the fact that North Korea has been for the most part quiet, is a factor of why were more willing to negotiate. It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and the crippled from previous wars and it is only less than 10% of the population left to consider. The 5% that are left after the heroic US war, will be the ones who vote in a democratic society. It will be some time before women and children, the orphans and widows, get the right to vote and a majority will be violently anti American. I am sure that Hollywood will be able to disguise the realities long enough to give the Americans the be good feeling and also make quite a few bucks when they do it. Realities will come another day. Perhaps, but, I can't help but wonder if we can help make things better for them in the end, if we go in or not, the question will remain. I look at Germany and Japan, and how they were rebuilt from the end of WW2 and wonder if in 30 to 50 years if Iraq will be in a similar situation. Is a war against a majority of children and women the preferred choice or a little bit more patience. In my opinion a war is not a solution, but a proof of failure. The US hysteria about the risk that Iraq would do something to them, are more based assumed revenge feelings with the Iraqis, than any facts. Iraq have never, what I know about, attacked or performed a terrorist act against US. Does anyone seriously think that a new war would remove the basis for the fear? I think that to some extent it might. After talking with some people this past weekend, the thought was expressed, that America at this point has been hurt badly by 9/11, might be lashing out of fear as well pain. Perhaps while it may not remove the basis for fear, it may be removing the appearance / feeling of fear and pain. Iraq for good or for ill has been a PITA on and off for the last 10+ years. My opinion is that Iraq's major threat to the world and especially for the developed countries, lays in the oil reserves. Not a threat to be discarded and one that need to be taken care of. It amplify the need of solving the Iraqi disarmament and incorporation in the world community very fast. The way it will be done, will have an effect on the financial interests of corporations and nations. Since Saddam Hussein is a proponent of an Arab oil blockade to solve the Israeli situation, he is very dangerous. You have to note that the urgency of dealing with him, appeared after his
RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
You are right. I am getting good info. I'll just keep sorting through. : ) Thanks. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:06 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Tim Owens wrote: To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. That's up to you, but it is most certainly about biofuels. From a couple of days ago: At the moment there's a lot, much more than usual, of what you'd call off-topic posts that others think are on-topic, but even so, even taking your view of it, more than two-thirds of the posts in the last three days are about biofuels issues - more than that if you take closely related subjects, like the rising cost of gasoline in the US (making biodiesel more cost-competitive, right?). But, suit yourself, of course. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Why? Anyway, nobody's forcing you to read anything. Messages have subject lines, if you're not interested, ignore them or delete them. ??? Doesn't your email program have filters? Do you use them? Can't you select messages in your filtered mailboxes according to subject? Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. Nothing's stopping you. You asked for info on making ethanol, and you very quickly got it, but didn't say any more about it, and since then you've said nothing about biofuels, just complained about allegedly off-topic posts that nobody's forcing you to read. If you have something more you want to discuss then please do so. It has nothing to do with what I agree or disagree. But I don't want to waist my time sorting through email that has no relevance to the topic in which I am interested. I wanted to learn about making my own biofuel and alternative energy sources. The ironic thing is... I want to learn these things BECAUSE... of the politics you keep discussing. So then it all does have some slight bearing on biofuels issues maybe? So what do you want me to do, ban it? But I asked you that, and you offer no sensible suggestions, just complaints. I think we are in trouble... and no matter who is in charge the out come is the same. Iraq IS making bio-weaponry. North Korea IS making nuclear weapons. So do we... someone IS going start IT. There is no way around it. I am opposed to war, but war is inevitable. So personally I want to be prepared. I KNOW my views, and you know yours. You can't change mine Set in concrete, are they, no matter what happens, no matter what new information comes your way? Hm. and I don't care to change yours. I just want to be prepared. You came to the right place, but if you want to be at odds with it, I can't help that. Good luck and God bless. And you. Keith Tim Owens Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation!
Hakan, let's not get into an argument of where spam comes from or who responds to it, you'd be surprised. http://spamcop.net/w3m?action=inprogresstype=relay More than half of spam comes from overseas, less than .1% of people respond to spam. Take the obligatory America bashing elsewhere. --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:31 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Keith, ... It is obviously a representation of what is in most American minds and others also for that matter. If not, it would not find a market and would not be so common. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation!
Tim Owens wrote: You are right. I am getting good info. I'll just keep sorting through. : ) Thanks. Great Tim, glad you're staying. Best wishes Keith -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:06 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Tim Owens wrote: To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. That's up to you, but it is most certainly about biofuels. From a couple of days ago: At the moment there's a lot, much more than usual, of what you'd call off-topic posts that others think are on-topic, but even so, even taking your view of it, more than two-thirds of the posts in the last three days are about biofuels issues - more than that if you take closely related subjects, like the rising cost of gasoline in the US (making biodiesel more cost-competitive, right?). But, suit yourself, of course. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Why? Anyway, nobody's forcing you to read anything. Messages have subject lines, if you're not interested, ignore them or delete them. ??? Doesn't your email program have filters? Do you use them? Can't you select messages in your filtered mailboxes according to subject? Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. Nothing's stopping you. You asked for info on making ethanol, and you very quickly got it, but didn't say any more about it, and since then you've said nothing about biofuels, just complained about allegedly off-topic posts that nobody's forcing you to read. If you have something more you want to discuss then please do so. It has nothing to do with what I agree or disagree. But I don't want to waist my time sorting through email that has no relevance to the topic in which I am interested. I wanted to learn about making my own biofuel and alternative energy sources. The ironic thing is... I want to learn these things BECAUSE... of the politics you keep discussing. So then it all does have some slight bearing on biofuels issues maybe? So what do you want me to do, ban it? But I asked you that, and you offer no sensible suggestions, just complaints. I think we are in trouble... and no matter who is in charge the out come is the same. Iraq IS making bio-weaponry. North Korea IS making nuclear weapons. So do we... someone IS going start IT. There is no way around it. I am opposed to war, but war is inevitable. So personally I want to be prepared. I KNOW my views, and you know yours. You can't change mine Set in concrete, are they, no matter what happens, no matter what new information comes your way? Hm. and I don't care to change yours. I just want to be prepared. You came to the right place, but if you want to be at odds with it, I can't help that. Good luck and God bless. And you. Keith Tim Owens Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 22:54 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. To be honest, I would not call 1,000,000 half starved, malnourished troops able. Heck, the only reason they are in the military is because, the military are the only ones that are given food by there own government. I wouldn't bank on it. I'd say they're able enough, not half-starved, and that the great majority are true-believers. The South Koreans also think that, and they're in a position to know. Both sides are as tough as nails. I was talking to some South Koreans a couple of weeks ago, military reservists. They were describing the rigours of their army training, incredible - and deemed necessary if they're to counter the North. I have heard that some UN people consider as it stands now, there is no clear cut winner. That's about right. The numbers difference is probably made up by the South's better equipment. What happens when two ace fighters, highly skilled, superbly fit and evenly matched, fight to the death? Not nice to watch. It's a powder-keg, another one, and very much best left to the locals to sort it out - South Korea, Japan, China. Blundering superpowers with all the diplomatic skills of a bull terrier who think it's a useful sideshow very much NOT REQUIRED, thankyou. Have a look at what South Korea's new President says: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2789303.stm Sunday, 23 February, 2003, 23:27 GMT US warned over North Korea And this might add some perspective: http://eatthestate.org/07-10/NorthKoreasWarlike.htm January 15, 2003 North Korea's Warlike Noises by Maria Tomchick North Korea has kicked UN officials out of its country, removed the cameras in its Yongbyon nuclear complex, abrogated the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and torn up a 1999 agreement to stop testing long-range missiles. It has said that any attempts by the UN Security Council to impose sanctions on North Korea would be viewed as a declaration of war. From this perspective--the portrayal of the current crisis in the US media--North Korea appears to be a rogue nation ruled by a madman. The reality is somewhat different. A little history can help us understand what North Korea is doing and why. After the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989, North Korea was left to fend on its own economically. Formerly dependent on the USSR for fuel oil to power its generators and food imports, North Korea had to quickly develop its export market and a way to generate electricity, or face collapse. This marked the beginning of the North Korean nuclear program, initially an attempt to generate power. North Korea began to build a nuclear complex at Yongbyon, a huge cave dug into the side of a mountain. It appeared, at least to the US and North Korea's neighbors (particularly Japan), that the Koreans might be hiding something, and the fear was that they might be attempting to refine weapons-grade material to make a nuclear weapon. Bill Clinton, with satellite photos in hand, confronted North Korea in 1993. After a tense standoff, the two sides reached an agreement. North Korea would allow UN inspectors and cameras into the Yongbyon complex and would cease work on a nuclear plant that could make weapons-grade nuclear material. In return, the US and Japan would provide North Korea with food aid, fuel oil to run its power plants, and would help it build two commercial-grade nuclear power plants, which would generate electricity, but not be capable of producing weapons-grade nuclear material. North Korea held up its end of the deal, and so did Japan. But the Clinton administration had a tougher time selling this deal to Congress. Congress okayed the fuel oil, but refused to approve the two commercial nuclear plants. Providing any kind of nuclear materials to North Korea was verboten. Indeed, it's possible that Clinton knew he didn't have the votes in Congress to approve the two plants; he may have agreed to that part of the deal simply for expediency's sake. (In other words, he struck a deal that made him look tough and statesman-like while probably knowing that he couldn't deliver on his end and thinking that he could stall long enough to leave the problem to a future president.) In the meantime, North Korea got tired of waiting for construction to begin on its two promised plants. The fuel oil helped a lot, but they decided to give the Clinton administration a little scare, just to prod Bill Clinton's memory about his unfulfilled promise. In 1999, they fired a prototype long-range missile over the north of Japan, sparking another round of diplomatic talks. By that time the Clinton administration was on its way out, unable to make any firm promises. Clinton managed
RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation!
Sorry Martin, Because they use foreign domain names and servers for the mailings does not mean that they are not US. Spamcop is a quite useless organization (if you can call them that) and they are toothless against the real mail Spam that we get. What I have seen of them is that they can be used by people who have a grudge to somebody or even to close down a competitors site, but when it comes to the real SPAM, they do nothing. Personally I had no issues with them, but I had to help some honest and well meaning people. They caused more work and trouble than the spammers and Judge Lynch would have been proud over their behavior. The ISPs do not like them, but are anyway overreacting. If you talk with the ISPs they all think that they are useless, but cannot do much about it. I also tracked down some of the .ru, .cn, .kr etc. and at the end it was US business interests. Almost always when it is .ru, .cn and .kr, it is not the origin of the Spammer. I am not saying that it was all of them and I am not trying with American bashing. I have seen a lot during my 20+ years of experience from Internet and Spamcop does not belong to the best. They managed of some reason get heard by a few US basenet providers and are using this to terrorize the ISPs. Make a complaint about an email in foreign language and a site in foreign language and the complaint will be accepted without any kind of qualification. I have some very nasty samples of this, were innocent people had a lot of trouble because they used US providers for their servers. If you are from US and want to Spam, use a foreign domain and a foreign server and Spamcop cannot communicate in a foreign language or do anything about it. If they were serious and professional, it could be a great help and I would welcome it. Your link to Spamcop does not say anything and maybe support what I just told you. Hakan At 11:19 AM 2/25/2003 -0500, you wrote: Hakan, let's not get into an argument of where spam comes from or who responds to it, you'd be surprised. http://spamcop.net/w3m?action=inprogresstype=relay More than half of spam comes from overseas, less than .1% of people respond to spam. Take the obligatory America bashing elsewhere. --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 22:54 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. I wouldn't bank on it. I'd say they're able enough, not half-starved, and that the great majority are true-believers. While they many or all may be true-believers, it is due to the way they have been treated by their own government. All the TVs and radios, have been altered by the government, so that the only broadcasting that will be picked up is the there own governments, they have no internet, no communication with the outside world at all, other that what their own government allows them (even China, is broad open in comparison). As to half-starved, it's true, many of the troops joined because of the way the food is rationed, virtually all of it goes to the government and the military. The North Korean troops are on average 3-4 inches shorter than their South Korean cousins. This is a big change from 50 years ago, and I doubt that it is due to genetic drift. The South Koreans also think that, and they're in a position to know. Both sides are as tough as nails. I was talking to some South Koreans a couple of weeks ago, military reservists. They were describing the rigours of their army training, incredible - and deemed necessary if they're to counter the North. You had better believe the South Koreans are tough as nails, and it's not just the way they train. For a while, my father was the USAF Senior Security Officer in South Korea, and he told me about a couple of reports, that came across his desk. In one report, it seems a South Korean officer came across a combined outpost ( combined being jointly manned by a South Korean and an American ) and found both of the men were sound asleep, the South Korean officer quietly awoke the American and sent him back to his unit, then after the American left, shot the South Korean in his sleep, for dereliction of duty. In the other report, an South Korean that was backing a fuel truck up next to an American F-16, bumped the wing. While it did put a small dent on it, it did not affect the operational status of the aircraft ( it could still fly and fight if necessary ). The driver of truck got out and looked at what happened, shook his head pulled the truck forward a bit, then got on the radio, then got out of the truck and stood at attention. About 45 min. later ( the truck driver had been standing at attention the entire time ) a South Korean NCO showed up on a bicycle, looked at the aircraft, and then started chewing the driver a few new ones. After about 10 min. of chewing out the NCO reached down grabbed the pair of wheel chocks for the aircraft (at about 30 lbs. each ), and slammed them into the side of the drivers head, dropping the driver were he stood, dropped the wheel chocks, got on the bicycle, and left. The driver was out for the better part of an hour, before someone showed up and took him away. I have heard that some UN people consider as it stands now, there is no clear cut winner. That's about right. The numbers difference is probably made up by the South's better equipment. What happens when two ace fighters, highly skilled, superbly fit and evenly matched, fight to the death? Not nice to watch. Agreed, it comes down to who makes the first unrecoverable mistake, a matter of luck I guess. I will admit, that if it was not a life and death issue, the skill displayed, would be a thing of beauty. It's a powder-keg, another one, and very much best left to the locals to sort it out - South Korea, Japan, China. Blundering superpowers with all the diplomatic skills of a bull terrier who think it's a useful sideshow very much NOT REQUIRED, thankyou. Unfortunately I think that that fact that we have such an large exposure in that part of the pacific is drawing us in, not to mention our alliance with South Korea. Have we been the long term victim of another slick willey attempt at trying to look good? Perhaps. I think that what he did, certainly didn't help make things any better for the future. Now we have to deal with it. The question is, How? Do we cave in like Clinton did? I think that would be a bad example, and set future precedent for blackmail of the worst kind. Do we work with the local nations? A good chance of working I think. China does have influence with North Korea despite what they say. I have heard some people say we should give China a free hand with North Korea in exchange for leaving Taiwan alone. I don't know, perhaps South Korea would prefer China as a neighbor as apposed to North Korea. I think the people of North Korea would be better off with China in charge. It seams to me that China is better in the humanitarian dept. and being open with other nations, than North Korea's current government, but then again my opinion is based
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Hi Greg North Korean soldiers: I wouldn't bank on it. I'd say they're able enough, not half-starved, and that the great majority are true-believers. While they many or all may be true-believers, it is due to the way they have been treated by their own government. Absolutely, yes. I didn't say what they believe is true, LOL! A very Orwellian society indeed. All the TVs and radios, have been altered by the government, so that the only broadcasting that will be picked up is the there own governments, they have no internet, no communication with the outside world at all, other that what their own government allows them (even China, is broad open in comparison). That's right. As to half-starved, it's true, many of the troops joined because of the way the food is rationed, virtually all of it goes to the government and the military. Yes - but while the people are half-starved, or worse, the troops aren't. They're able enough. The people are utterly ground down and poverty-stricken, but the military isn't. The North Korean troops are on average 3-4 inches shorter than their South Korean cousins. This is a big change from 50 years ago, and I doubt that it is due to genetic drift. Quite a lot of debate over such data in the East, and elsewhere. It could be that the South Koreans are taller rather than the North Koreans shorter. For the last two or three decades Hong Kong and IIRC Singapore, and I believe other societies here, have been reporting that the younger generations are taller. It's generally thought to be a result of changes in the diet to more Westernized (ie industrialized) food. It's also not thought necessarily to be an improvement. Tallness is not a survival factor, nor an indication of health and fitness. Anyway, the North Korean diet is of course not more Westernized/industrialized, but the South Korean diet is. The South Koreans also think that, and they're in a position to know. Both sides are as tough as nails. I was talking to some South Koreans a couple of weeks ago, military reservists. They were describing the rigours of their army training, incredible - and deemed necessary if they're to counter the North. You had better believe the South Koreans are tough as nails, and it's not just the way they train. For a while, my father was the USAF Senior Security Officer in South Korea, and he told me about a couple of reports, that came across his desk. In one report, it seems a South Korean officer came across a combined outpost ( combined being jointly manned by a South Korean and an American ) and found both of the men were sound asleep, the South Korean officer quietly awoke the American and sent him back to his unit, then after the American left, shot the South Korean in his sleep, for dereliction of duty. In the other report, an South Korean that was backing a fuel truck up next to an American F-16, bumped the wing. While it did put a small dent on it, it did not affect the operational status of the aircraft ( it could still fly and fight if necessary ). The driver of truck got out and looked at what happened, shook his head pulled the truck forward a bit, then got on the radio, then got out of the truck and stood at attention. About 45 min. later ( the truck driver had been standing at attention the entire time ) a South Korean NCO showed up on a bicycle, looked at the aircraft, and then started chewing the driver a few new ones. After about 10 min. of chewing out the NCO reached down grabbed the pair of wheel chocks for the aircraft (at about 30 lbs. each ), and slammed them into the side of the drivers head, dropping the driver were he stood, dropped the wheel chocks, got on the bicycle, and left. The driver was out for the better part of an hour, before someone showed up and took him away. I can believe it. I have heard that some UN people consider as it stands now, there is no clear cut winner. That's about right. The numbers difference is probably made up by the South's better equipment. What happens when two ace fighters, highly skilled, superbly fit and evenly matched, fight to the death? Not nice to watch. Agreed, it comes down to who makes the first unrecoverable mistake, a matter of luck I guess. I will admit, that if it was not a life and death issue, the skill displayed, would be a thing of beauty. They'd probably both die, the loser sooner than the winner - no winner, really. But make it two modern armies rather than two individuals, and not fighting in a vacuum but in heavily populated communities. No beauty in that, eh? Best Keith snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:25 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Agreed, it comes down to who makes the first unrecoverable mistake, a matter of luck I guess. I will admit, that if it was not a life and death issue, the skill displayed, would be a thing of beauty. They'd probably both die, the loser sooner than the winner - no winner, really. But make it two modern armies rather than two individuals, and not fighting in a vacuum but in heavily populated communities. No beauty in that, eh? Your right there, it's happened before. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Greg, Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the Iraqi army. I do no want to do any clear cut final military judgement, but it is my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical nature. They have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and are more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq. As a discussion subject I think I have put down a fair amount of facts and if I would say more, I have to prepare a more complete statement. It will probably not result in anything, since the demand for my views are low by any decision maker. I will however repeat a key argument, that I think is essential when judging the situation, it is very basic and easy to understand. It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and the crippled from previous wars and it is only less than 10% of the population left to consider. The 5% that are left after the heroic US war, will be the ones who vote in a democratic society. It will be some time before women and children, the orphans and widows, get the right to vote and a majority will be violently anti American. I am sure that Hollywood will be able to disguise the realities long enough to give the Americans the be good feeling and also make quite a few bucks when they do it. Realities will come another day. Is a war against a majority of children and women the preferred choice or a little bit more patience. In my opinion a war is not a solution, but a proof of failure. The US hysteria about the risk that Iraq would do something to them, are more based assumed revenge feelings with the Iraqis, than any facts. Iraq have never, what I know about, attacked or performed a terrorist act against US. Does anyone seriously think that a new war would remove the basis for the fear? My opinion is that Iraq's major threat to the world and especially for the developed countries, lays in the oil reserves. Not a threat to be discarded and one that need to be taken care of. It amplify the need of solving the Iraqi disarmament and incorporation in the world community very fast. The way it will be done, will have an effect on the financial interests of corporations and nations. Since Saddam Hussein is a proponent of an Arab oil blockade to solve the Israeli situation, he is very dangerous. You have to note that the urgency of dealing with him, appeared after his promotion of a new oil blockade and that Iraq even stopped oil deliveries for a while. He did not get the support from the other oil producers that he hoped for, but only that he brought it up is bad enough. If you consider the data that are available and the above, a result of the Iran war and the Gulf war, what is your opinion? If you look at the situation with US/UK who are locked out from winning oil contracts. Is it an immediate WMD threat or distribution of oil interests? Hakan At 11:03 AM 2/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: To be honest, I would not call 1,000,000 half starved, malnourished troops able. Heck, the only reason they are in the military is because, the military are the only ones that are given food by there own government. I have heard that some UN people consider as it stands now, there is no clear cut winner. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 23:20 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. North Korea is more difficult, with 1,000,000 able men standing against 600,000 of US 10% and unwilling South Korea 90%. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Greg, At 05:02 PM 2/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: snip I can't help but wonder at times if this is not one of the biggest bluffs of all time. There are times that I hope that is all it is. Me too, as I already said in earlier posting, it could be a version of the bad cop, good cop game and as such it seems to work. I really hope that its turns out to be that. But the more I read about the people behind Bush, the more I start to belive that it is a superiority ideology behind it and it makes me very afraid. Hakan Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Greg, Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the Iraqi army. I do no want to do any clear cut final military judgement, but it is my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical nature. They have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and are more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq. You are not joking there. I think the fact that North Korea has been for the most part quiet, is a factor of why were more willing to negotiate. It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and the crippled from previous wars and it is only less than 10% of the population left to consider. The 5% that are left after the heroic US war, will be the ones who vote in a democratic society. It will be some time before women and children, the orphans and widows, get the right to vote and a majority will be violently anti American. I am sure that Hollywood will be able to disguise the realities long enough to give the Americans the be good feeling and also make quite a few bucks when they do it. Realities will come another day. Perhaps, but, I can't help but wonder if we can help make things better for them in the end, if we go in or not, the question will remain. I look at Germany and Japan, and how they were rebuilt from the end of WW2 and wonder if in 30 to 50 years if Iraq will be in a similar situation. Is a war against a majority of children and women the preferred choice or a little bit more patience. In my opinion a war is not a solution, but a proof of failure. The US hysteria about the risk that Iraq would do something to them, are more based assumed revenge feelings with the Iraqis, than any facts. Iraq have never, what I know about, attacked or performed a terrorist act against US. Does anyone seriously think that a new war would remove the basis for the fear? I think that to some extent it might. After talking with some people this past weekend, the thought was expressed, that America at this point has been hurt badly by 9/11, might be lashing out of fear as well pain. Perhaps while it may not remove the basis for fear, it may be removing the appearance / feeling of fear and pain. Iraq for good or for ill has been a PITA on and off for the last 10+ years. My opinion is that Iraq's major threat to the world and especially for the developed countries, lays in the oil reserves. Not a threat to be discarded and one that need to be taken care of. It amplify the need of solving the Iraqi disarmament and incorporation in the world community very fast. The way it will be done, will have an effect on the financial interests of corporations and nations. Since Saddam Hussein is a proponent of an Arab oil blockade to solve the Israeli situation, he is very dangerous. You have to note that the urgency of dealing with him, appeared after his promotion of a new oil blockade and that Iraq even stopped oil deliveries for a while. He did not get the support from the other oil producers that he hoped for, but only that he brought it up is bad enough. True. How do you deal with someone like him them? Run one hell of a bluff and be prepared to hit him hard if he calls you on it? If you consider the data that are available and the above, a result of the Iran war and the Gulf war, what is your opinion? If you look at the situation with US/UK who are locked out from winning oil contracts. Is it an immediate WMD threat or distribution of oil interests? It's a bad dream. The oil makes things a lot more difficult to evaluate properly. Is there a WOMD problem with Iraq? I see it as possible, even probable. Does the oil enter in to it? Very probable. Is oil, the only reason that the US wants to go in? I don't know. I have a degree a doubt about
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
At this point, I would not be to surprised if later on, we find out that Bush behind the scenes was asking France and Germany to be, vocally apposed to the U.S., it would certainly give them a stronger hand when all is said and done. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 18:18 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Me too, as I already said in earlier posting, it could be a version of the bad cop, good cop game and as such it seems to work. I really hope that its turns out to be that. But the more I read about the people behind Bush, the more I start to belive that it is a superiority ideology behind it and it makes me very afraid. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
North Korean missiles to Yemen that was stopped in the Persian Gulf a few weeks ago?) Then, in 2000, George W. Bush was elected president of the United States. The first thing the Bush administration did was cut off all negotiations and all contact with North Korea. Then September 11 happened and the Bush administration declared a War on Terrorism. The Taliban were supporters of terrorism, so Bush attacked and destroyed the Taliban, leveling what was left of Afghanistan in the process. Turning its sights to new targets, the Bush administration named Iran, Iraq, and North Korea as members of an Axis of Evil. Immediately, Bush singled out Iraq because of its Weapons of Mass Destruction. Surely one can see why North Korea would be in a panic. The Bush administration has isolated them, refused to talk (much less negotiate), and is on a crusade against perceived enemies. To North Korea, the US appears to be a rogue nation, governed by madmen. North Korea might be next on the Bush agenda. So, like it or not, they decided to develop a deterrent to US aggression: a nuclear weapon. US policy has always viewed nuclear weapons as a deterrent against aggression, first in relation to the Soviet Union, and now in regards to so-called rogue or terrorist nations. When Cold War politicians like Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney discuss this deterrent philosophy, they always mention North Korea. Always. Likewise, Donald Rumsfeld has been pushing the development of the Son of Star Wars, an anti-missile program intended to intercept incoming long-range missiles from hostile nations. When discussing this program, Rumsfeld always mentions North Korea. Always. Rumsfeld has been successful in gaining funding for the Son of Star Wars; in the first stage of deployment, set for next year, 10 interceptor missiles will be based at Fort Greely in Alaska. In 2005, 10 more will be deployed in Alaska, the closest US territory to North Korea. Meanwhile, testing of the interceptor missiles has been conducted in the Pacific, as a sort of warning to the main target of this billion-dollar, scary, destabilizing boondoggle: North Korea. Naturally, North Korea doesn't view these missiles as strictly for defensive purposes. They view them as an offensive weapon aimed directly at their heartland. They also take to heart Donald Rumsfeld's assertion that the US can fight two wars at once: against Iraq and North Korea, if necessary. In this context, North Korea's actions make sense. It's the Bush administration that appears irrational, particularly in their refusal to negotiate directly with North Korea. North Korea is right to condemn US attempts to take this issue to the UN Security Council as a stalling tactic to buy time so Bush can deal with Iraq first. Notably, South Korea, China, and Japan all support negotiations; they are particularly fearful of the prospect of sanctions against North Korea, which could cause the downfall of Kim Jong Il's government and the exodus of millions of refugees. South Korea, in particular, would rather have a slow, economically easy reunification, instead of a major economic collapse in North Korea. But the Bush administration is on a crusade. If only the US media could figure that out and report the news with a little bit of objectivity. Best Keith Greg H. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 23:20 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. North Korea is more difficult, with 1,000,000 able men standing against 600,000 of US 10% and unwilling South Korea 90%. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Hello Greg Some snips: Perhaps, but, I can't help but wonder if we can help make things better for them in the end, if we go in or not, the question will remain. I look at Germany and Japan, and how they were rebuilt from the end of WW2 and wonder if in 30 to 50 years if Iraq will be in a similar situation. But when you're dealing with the lives and livelihoods of millions of people and the future of an entire country (one at least) it needs a bit more than just conjecture, doesn't it? Is a war against a majority of children and women the preferred choice or a little bit more patience. In my opinion a war is not a solution, but a proof of failure. The US hysteria about the risk that Iraq would do something to them, are more based assumed revenge feelings with the Iraqis, than any facts. Iraq have never, what I know about, attacked or performed a terrorist act against US. Does anyone seriously think that a new war would remove the basis for the fear? I think that to some extent it might. After talking with some people this past weekend, the thought was expressed, that America at this point has been hurt badly by 9/11, might be lashing out of fear as well pain. Perhaps while it may not remove the basis for fear, it may be removing the appearance / feeling of fear and pain. Iraq for good or for ill has been a PITA on and off for the last 10+ years. So they'd just be a convenient scapegoat then, sacrificed in the cause of therapy for America's wounded psyche? My opinion is that Iraq's major threat to the world and especially for the developed countries, lays in the oil reserves. Not a threat to be discarded and one that need to be taken care of. It amplify the need of solving the Iraqi disarmament and incorporation in the world community very fast. The way it will be done, will have an effect on the financial interests of corporations and nations. Since Saddam Hussein is a proponent of an Arab oil blockade to solve the Israeli situation, he is very dangerous. You have to note that the urgency of dealing with him, appeared after his promotion of a new oil blockade and that Iraq even stopped oil deliveries for a while. He did not get the support from the other oil producers that he hoped for, but only that he brought it up is bad enough. True. How do you deal with someone like him them? Run one hell of a bluff and be prepared to hit him hard if he calls you on it? This is exactly why the US, the UK and the other Allies formed the UN after WW2. It is a problem for the whole world, not just Washington, and when the whole world disagrees with Washington's proposed solution, Washington should listen, rather than trying to railroad the UN and the world. If you consider the data that are available and the above, a result of the Iran war and the Gulf war, what is your opinion? If you look at the situation with US/UK who are locked out from winning oil contracts. Is it an immediate WMD threat or distribution of oil interests? It's a bad dream. The oil makes things a lot more difficult to evaluate properly. Is there a WOMD problem with Iraq? I see it as possible, even probable. Does the oil enter in to it? Very probable. Is oil, the only reason that the US wants to go in? I don't know. I have a degree a doubt about that aspect. I find my self second guessing the situation all the time. I'm of two minds about the whole thing. You know the difference between the parameters of judgment in civil and criminal law? In Roman-Dutch law, at any rate, a civil judgment depends on the preponderance of probabilities, while a criminal judgment can only be reached when the issue is beyond reasonable doubt. Thus it's happened that a man found innocent in a murder trial, because there was doubt, lost a subsequent civil case when the widow sued him, because he almost certainly did it (but only almost). When it's proposed to take action that is going to kill very many innocent people and destroy a society and its infrastructure, if you're in two minds about the whole thing, as you say, then you have to oppose it until the issue is demonstrated to be beyoind all reasonable doubt. I can't help but wonder at times if this is not one of the biggest bluffs of all time. There are times that I hope that is all it is. How about if it's a huge bluff but it goes ahead anyway, slaughtering all those people and touching off the whole powder-keg? Regards Keith Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Curtis, Obviously you like the idea to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and the crippled from previous wars and it is only less than 10% of the population left to consider. The 5% that are left after the heroic US war, will be the ones who vote in a democratic society. It will be some time before women and children, the orphans and widows, get the right to vote and a majority will be violently anti American. I am sure that Hollywood will be able to disguise the realities long enough to give the Americans the be good feeling and also make quite a few bucks when they do it. Realities will come another day. North Korea is more difficult, with 1,000,000 able men standing against 600,000 of US 10% and unwilling South Korea 90%. On top of this, no oil and US knows that North Korea have WMD, including nuclear with long range missiles. Too dangerous and nothing in return, must be solved by diplomacy. Hakan At 08:35 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, you wrote: Well, first of all SHEESH (all the responses) it's just MY little observation!! (LOLOL, lots of lol!!) Seriously though, the only reason why I see that silly one-world government coming was when I saw a televised video of (I think) Colin Powell (??) testifying before the Security Council as to why Iraq should be attacked (or SOMETHING like that ... I admit I don't fully understand all the politics ... not an expert). Now think of it ... why da-hell does Powell (or Bush for that matter) need to JUSTIFY attacking another country?? Especially in front of some stupid board of directors??? Or senate panel for that matter?? I thought WE were a sovereign nation?? Capable of deciding for ourselves what we should do that's what our CONGRESS is for (I thought anyways). We, through our congress, decide and then we go-do. I thought that's what a sovereign nation is (or so I thought). Now, notice, I'm NOT arguing whether attacking Iraq is a good (or bad idea). Personally, I think it's a not-too-smart idea. But JUST LOOK AT THE PRECEDENCE BEING SET. That's my point. JUST LOOK AT THE PRECEDENCE BEING SET!! 1. Our country wants to do something. (In THIS particular example ... it HAPPENS to be attacking Iraq). 2. Congress even (I believe) ... even APPROVED that attack. 3. Do we just go ahead?? No!! Next thing you know, Powell (or whoever) is seen of TV TESTIFYING in front of some HIGHER global senate. (ie, the UN security council). Almost as if we need to ask permission. Almost as if a lower court decision needed to be brought before some kind of supreme court. WHY?? To me, that sets a VERY bad precedence. A congressional decision (it this case, war) needing approval of a higher-global-senate (the UN in this case) TO GET DONE.Isn't that rather scary?? A global senate ... almost able to OVERRULE . our Federal Senate?? Other scary Precedences an INTERNATIONAL atomic energy commission?? . ICC international criminals court system Like one of the other email poster mentioned ... it's the MONOPOLY of power that scares me. Now, Keith, you mentioned Corporate monopolizing of power. And you're right. I believe that this is another problem. The problem is, I get this scary feeling ... that when all this said and done... global employment, the one-world company ... will merge and be consolidated with UN .. the global government. And possibly even with a global church of some kind. This way, one ... humungo Corporate structure will run our work and financial lives (Corporate) our at-home/ weekend lives (government) and even our personal / family (church) lives. From cradle to the grave. All people (in the whole world now) ... working for peanuts ... giving all there sweat and toil to one person (global CEO) all allegiance to one person (global president) all purpose-in-life to one doctrine (global pope). Now remember ... before flaming ... this is ONLY ONE GUY'S OBSERVATION. I neither had any preconceived notion before making these conclusions. Neither any intent .. of coming to any conclusions.Just a guy living his life, watching the news . and all-of-a-sudden seeing a pattern. That's it. Now, can we kill this subject?? (putting on fire suit just-in-case, LOL) BTW, I enjoy being in this group. still finding a place in my life to take the plunge and concoct my own biodiesel and brag that I make my own fuel that runs this car I'm driving. Final plan is to make a biodiesel powered hybrid. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Curtis The big bugaboo over the dreaded one-world government - does that strike the same fear and loathing into the heart of anyone outside the US I wonder? Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
