Re: [Biofuel] - Solar Hot Water Heater
Hi I have been following this thread. My plan for the heat exchange between the solar collector and the potable hot water system is to modify a discarded gas fired Polaris hotwater heater. The tank of this hotwater heater is made of stainless. I have pulled out all the gas burner guts out of it, made a plate to close off the bottom of the heater end. I hope to acheive the heat tranfer by circulating hot water from the collectors throught the flue of this tank. this setup does not leak but I am not sure how well it will work as a heat exchanger as the surface area of the flue is not all that large. stan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hot Water and Radiant Heat
From a related yet different perspective, do I introduce any trouble by burningmy wood burning fireplace insert?://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Your insert with a fan is probably 300% more efficient than a fireplace. That means instead of 98% of the heating value of the fuel being lost up the chimney only 90% is lost. THe only fireplace I know of that is worth owning is the Finnish masonry firplace and I think it weighs 2 to 3tons. Definitely not a trivial second storey affair. I myself favor biodiesel cogeneration so electricity and heat are obtained from the same fuel. Can reduce electricity cost to around 5 cents a kilowatt hour. Then there is the reliability of not being vulnerable to problems on the grid. Lousiana is a good case in point re not having your own. Kirk Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hot Water and Radiant Heat
I know its not much better but, I believe our insert is rated at 40% efficiency. We plan to move to a more efficient catalytic wood burning insert as soon as we can swing the finances. Vermont Castings claims 78% efficiency of one of their models. Kirk wrote: Your insert with a fan is probably 300% more efficient than a fireplace. That means instead of 98% of the heating value of the fuel being lost up the chimney only 90% is lost. THe only fireplace I know of that is worth owning is the Finnish masonry firplace and I think it weighs 2 to 3 tons. Definitely not a trivial second storey affair. I myself favor biodiesel cogeneration so electricity and heat are obtained from the same fuel. Can reduce electricity cost to around 5 cents a kilowatt hour. Then there is the reliability of not being vulnerable to problems on the grid. Lousiana is a good case in point re not having your own. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hot Water and Radiant Heat
Ken Dunn wrote: 7. What is the group's collective experience? I have radiant hot water heat in my house and I'm happy enough with the system to say that I don't wish to live WITHOUT radiant heat in the future. It's probably colder where you live during the winter than it is here on the left coast, and the colder your climate, the faster the energy savings of radiant heat will pay back. We installed the plastic tubing directly beneath the floor boards on our upper floor, which was a LOT of shoulder and back breaking work! Doing this enables our upper floor to heat quickly, giving our system a faster overall response time. If you do this, however, you'll want to install grommets in the floor joists. We didn't, so whenever the boiler fires up, the plastic pipes tap against the joists. It sounds like a myriad of golf balls bouncing on the floor--not altogether unpleasant, but certainly something unnecessary. Our lower floor has its tubing buried directly in the foundation concrete. It heats up slower, but also cools down slower, so the lower floor of the house stays at a very even temperature throughout the heating season. If you can do fibernet concrete in your installation, I would recommend it. Radiant floor heat is very comfortable and energy efficient. Our house, which is among the smallest in our neighborhood, uses about forty percent of the energy for heating of a comparably sized home with forced air, and considerably less than the towering behemoths that populate our subdivision. Part of that greater efficiency, however, may stem from the fact that I sealed every join between floor and wall and caulked around every window when we built the house. (The carpenters thought I was crazy, but then, so does everyone else!) We also have R 50 cellulose blown into our attic. Our house stays nice and warm when it's cold outside, even in the nearly constant, prevailing wind that blows around up here during the winter. Another nice feature of radiant heat, is that the propylene glycol / water mix (don't use ethylene glycol) can be heated by a variety of means. You can set your boiler to heat an insulated storage tank and put in an extra coil for solar input. If the thermostat on the storage tank is set for a given temperature, your boiler will only activate when the solar thermal energy has been used first. In theory, you could tap heat from the tank for domestic hot water as well, so a single system could serve home heating and water heating. Most good boilers are more efficient than water heater tanks, engendering another savings (albeit a small one) down the road. Disadvantages include: 1. The potential for structural damage with a leak. A properly designed system SHOULDN'T leak, but then, I live in earthquake country and we have to take that risk seriously. 2. Greater initial expense for radiant heat. 3. Lag time between outdoor temperature drops and the response of the system. 4. Wood fired boilers pollute more than wood fired forced air systems because water is much more efficient at removing heat energy from the fire box. This can also result in creosote build up. If I were to build another house, I would use solar thermal storage in the foundation mass, coupled with a gasifying boiler and radiant heat. That would be efficient to operate and inexpensive to run. 8. Might I be better off building a window mounted solar collector initially? This might overheat the room if you're not careful. 9. Are there other more efficient solutions? Start with insulation and draft proofing. Get good windows and use window quilts wherever possible. Once you've taken care of these easily implemented, affordable solutions, the rest will cost less money and involve less work. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hot Water and Radiant Heat
As a rule of thumb a dollar of insulation buys more BTUs than a dollar of collector. This is probably true until you pass R50 for the roof/ceiling and R40 for the walls. Moveable insulation is much cheaper than hitek windows but only you know if you will be diligent in its use. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dejabook/ Has Harnessing the Sun and the Deja 3.1 viewer in the files section I recommend it. KirkKen Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,I know that this has been discussed in the past but, a search of the archives turns up discussions from a few years ago (unless my searching was less than adequate). Seems to me that the timing is right to rehash the topic.I have been researching solar hot water and radiant heating periodically for a while now, knowing that I have a few zones in my house that are not sufficiently warm. I also know that I want to do whatever I can to conserve. Under the current circumstances here in the U.S., there is no better time than now. Yeah, I know, yesterday was the best time but, I was fishing.In our particular situation, we have two bedrooms that stay on the cooler side (actually they're downright cold). They are over the garage and on the north side of the house. The garage below is unfinished but the ceiling above the garage is insulated. However, the house is 50 years old. I have no idea how old that insulation is nor do I know the R-factor of it. I would like to finish/insulate the garage walls, pull down the garage ceiling, install radiant heating below my sons' bedrooms and reinsulate the garage ceiling. I know that proper insulation alone will make a big difference but, based on several variables I am certain that it won't fix the problem all together.I plan to implement a system that gathers the Sun's energy within a solar collector filled with an anti-freeze of sorts. The heat produced is transferred to water stored in an insulated storage tank via a heat exchange and then distributed to the "zones" via tubing. Sound like the standard setup? I am also considering building a window unit like I've seen in books by the Rodale Press. Additionally, I am still in the process of scrounging parts for my biodiesel processor. If I do this right, I could use the system to pre-heat my feed stock at a minimum. I plan to add more radiant solar heat to the rest of the house later but, because of the layout of the house, I will likely create two independent systems. This goes along nicely with my techy nature of building in redundancy anyway.Now, the questions that I pose to you are these:1. Is this, truly, a worthwile endeavor? I suppose I should mentionthat I live in Lancaster County, PA U.S.2. What is "The" source for information on this subject?3. Can I Appropriately build a solar collector that is as efficient? (When I say Appropriately I mean -With materials that are readily available and sensible)4. Should I plan to "add on" instead of having 2 separate systems?5. Is there any reason why I couldn't use automotive anti-freeze?6. Does any one have experience with Radiantec? I amconsidering using some of their components.7. What is the group's collective experience?8. Might I be better off building a window mounted solar collector initially?9. Are there other more efficient solutions?Thanks for the bandwidth,Take care,Ken***Editor's Note*** I am my own editor and often drink on the job.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hot Water and Radiant Heat
On 9/4/05, *robert luis rabello* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you do this, however, you'll want to install grommets in the floor joists. We didn't, so whenever the boiler fires up, the plastic pipes tap against the joists. It sounds like a myriad of golf balls bouncing on the floor--not altogether unpleasant, but certainly something unnecessary. Is there a specific type of material or will any old grommet do? Part of that greater efficiency, however, may stem from the fact that I sealed every join between floor and wall and caulked around every window when we built the house. I'm working on that sort of stuff but, it's much slower in the retro-fit. You can set your boiler to heat an insulated storage tank and put in an extra coil for solar input. If the thermostat on the storage tank is set for a given temperature, your boiler will only activate when the solar thermal energy has been used first. This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. I was way over complicating the design in my head. As long as I build or modify the storage tank myself and change my thermostat, it's not nearly as complicated as I initially thought. In theory, you could tap heat from the tank for domestic hot water as well, so a single system could serve home heating and water heating. That was definitely a design consideration that I skipped in my post. I was planning on implementing that as addition 2 of phase 2. Most good boilers are more efficient than water heater tanks, engendering another savings (albeit a small one) down the road. Disadvantages include: 1. The potential for structural damage with a leak. A properly designed system SHOULDN'T leak, but then, I live in earthquake country and we have to take that risk seriously. This isn't TOO much of a concern for us as the plumbing will be in the basement. Part of our basement is finished but, a good disaster would be just the reason to do all the proper insulating which my better half is none too enthusiastic about. 2. Greater initial expense for radiant heat. How so? Of course, I'm not dealing with initial expenses here anyway. 4. Wood fired boilers pollute more than wood fired forced air systems because water is much more efficient at removing heat energy from the fire box. This can also result in creosote build up. From a related yet different perspective, do I introduce any trouble by burning my wood burning fireplace insert? In seems to do a very good job and has a fan. Do you reverse ceiling fans during the winter? I'll be performing on-site tests this winter in order to prove either my wife or myself correct. Start with insulation and draft proofing. Get good windows and use window quilts wherever possible. Once you've taken care of these easily implemented, affordable solutions, the rest will cost less money and involve less work. As I mentioned before, I'm working toward that end. It certainly takes a while when you're taking over a home. Thanks much for your comments, Take care, Ken ***Editor's Note*** I am my own editor and often drink on the job. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hot Water and Radiant Heat
On 9/4/05, *Kirk McLoren* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a rule of thumb a dollar of insulation buys more BTUs than a dollar of collector. This is probably true until you pass R50 for the roof/ceiling and R40 for the walls. I couldn't agree more. I'd like to bank on doing the proper insulation alone before winter but, I am not willing to take the chance that insulation alone will protect me enough from the energy crisis that we're about to witness. Thanks much, Take care, Ken ***Editor's Note*** I am my own editor and often drink on the job. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hot Water and Radiant Heat
Ken Dunn wrote: Is there a specific type of material or will any old grommet do? Neoprene rubber is the recommended material. (Plumbing complexity) This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. I was way over complicating the design in my head. As long as I build or modify the storage tank myself and change my thermostat, it's not nearly as complicated as I initially thought. It doesn't need to be terribly complex. Ours was installed by a plumber whom I would never accuse of being the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree! ($$$) How so? Of course, I'm not dealing with initial expenses here anyway. The initial cost of a boiler tends to exceed that of a furnace, and in our case, we installed a heat recovery ventilator. (Our boiler is rated at 30 000 Btu and is tiny!) By the time we paid for everything, we invested about $1 500 more in our radiant floor heating than would have been the case with a contractor installed forced air system. Labor to install radiant heat is likely the most significant expense. My wife and I installed all the tubing ourselves, with a lot of help from some friends. (Ok, maybe that was the other way around!) It's a LOT of work, but the work is well worth your effort if you can do it yourself. From a related yet different perspective, do I introduce any trouble by burning my wood burning fireplace insert? No. Do you reverse ceiling fans during the winter? No, that isn't necessary. It seems a little counterintuitive, but you've got to appreciate that radiant heat very gently transfers into the air above the floor, where most of the energy is going. Heat rises naturally and gradually over time, forming thermal gradients that make the air near the ceiling cooler. I walk around my house with bare feet all winter long. If I feel uncomfortable, I simply put my feet on the floor. Thanks much for your comments, You're welcome! ***Editor's Note*** I am my own editor and often drink on the job. I do too, but it's almost always tea! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hot Water and Radiant Heat
robert luis rabello wrote: Ken Dunn wrote: Is there a specific type of material or will any old grommet do? Neoprene rubber is the recommended material. (Plumbing complexity) This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. I was way over complicating the design in my head. As long as I build or modify the storage tank myself and change my thermostat, it's not nearly as complicated as I initially thought. It doesn't need to be terribly complex. Ours was installed by a plumber whom I would never accuse of being the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree! ($$$) How so? Of course, I'm not dealing with initial expenses here anyway. The initial cost of a boiler tends to exceed that of a furnace, and in our case, we installed a heat recovery ventilator. (Our boiler is rated at 30 000 Btu and is tiny!) By the time we paid for everything, we invested about $1 500 more in our radiant floor heating than would have been the case with a contractor installed forced air system. Labor to install radiant heat is likely the most significant expense. My wife and I installed all the tubing ourselves, with a lot of help from some friends. (Ok, maybe that was the other way around!) It's a LOT of work, but the work is well worth your effort if you can do it yourself. From a related yet different perspective, do I introduce any trouble by burning my wood burning fireplace insert? No. Do you reverse ceiling fans during the winter? No, that isn't necessary. It seems a little counterintuitive, but you've got to appreciate that radiant heat very gently transfers into the air above the floor, where most of the energy is going. Heat rises naturally and gradually over time, forming thermal gradients that make the air near the ceiling cooler. I walk around my house with bare feet all winter long. If I feel uncomfortable, I simply put my feet on the floor. Thanks much for your comments, You're welcome! ***Editor's Note*** I am my own editor and often drink on the job. I do too, but it's almost always tea! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ For inexpensive system run a standard hot water tank, a couple grunfos pumps on an open ended system. It doesnt need to be complicated or expensive, a solar preheat from the hot water can be helpful, although you will need a heat exchanger to run the antifreeze (Helios ? I think in Oakland makes a good one, or you could fashion one up). Put in the tubing and insulate as you can. I have a design for low cost system (less then 2k$) if you are interested for 2 story 1600sq.ft. house if you want general outline of bits and pieces. S.Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
now. The article has changed slightly, the one I had starts of page 2 of this one, I think it's the same, or at least it's the same as my download, which is quite old. 14 pages. You must have missed the first page (default.htm). The schematic is on page 6: http://www.green-trust.org/2000/solar/sunontap/page6.htm Enlarged version here: http://www.green-trust.org/2000/solar/sunontap/wpe67937.gif More on page 11: http://www.green-trust.org/2000/solar/sunontap/page11.htm http://www.green-trust.org/2000/solar/sunontap/wpe27888.gif http://www.green-trust.org/2000/solar/sunontap/wpe10978.gif but more importantly, there was a large schematic of the whole thing. This has disappeared. Any ideas on how I can find the original article? Bright Blessings, Kim SUN ON TAP The Best We Know by Frederic S. Langa You Can Cut Hot Water Bill By Two-Thirds... With A Fine-Tuned Passive Solar Heater I like that one too. It's lifted from Rodale's New Shelter - July/August 1981. Here you go: http://www.green-trust.org/2000/solar/sunontap/Default.htm Not only that but Steve's site search gave you the wrong url. What a mess! :-( Download it while the going's good. Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Methane was Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
Now for the rest of the system. Since we can have some real cloudy periods, [I haven't seen the sun for 5 days now] I need an on demand hot water heater to back up my solar. For now I need to run it on propane, but I definitely want to install my methane digester to run it in the future. Does anyone have experience with running any particular brand of on demand hot water heaters on methane? Or just any experience with on demand hot water heaters, gas powered not electric? Thanks and Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Methane was Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water w/follow up question
Kim is asking a question to which I've also been trying to get answers. I'd also like to attach a follow up question. Has anyone been looking into heliostats as a way of channeling/concentrating solar energy for applications like the one Kim is asking about? That is to say, the solar energy reflected from a heliostat can be used to heat the water directly or to help in the production of methane (and/or other biofuels). So far, the devices I've come across are way too expensive. Mike Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for all the links Keith, I have it downloaded, backed up and printed. Now for the rest of the system. Since we can have some real cloudy periods, [I haven't seen the sun for 5 days now] I need an on demand hot water heater to back up my solar. For now I need to run it on propane, but I definitely want to install my methane digester to run it in the future. Does anyone have experience with running any particular brand of on demand hot water heaters on methane? Or just any experience with on demand hot water heaters, gas powered not electric? Thanks and Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Methane was Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water w/follow up question
Solar Power Heliostat Arrays. http://www.redrok.com/main.htm --- Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kim is asking a question to which I've also been trying to get answers. I'd also like to attach a follow up question. Has anyone been looking into heliostats as a way of channeling/concentrating solar energy for applications like the one Kim is asking about? That is to say, the solar energy reflected from a heliostat can be used to heat the water directly or to help in the production of methane (and/or other biofuels). So far, the devices I've come across are way too expensive. Mike Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for all the links Keith, I have it downloaded, backed up and printed. Now for the rest of the system. Since we can have some real cloudy periods, [I haven't seen the sun for 5 days now] I need an on demand hot water heater to back up my solar. For now I need to run it on propane, but I definitely want to install my methane digester to run it in the future. Does anyone have experience with running any particular brand of on demand hot water heaters on methane? Or just any experience with on demand hot water heaters, gas powered not electric? Thanks and Bright Blessings, Kim __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
interesting. Even I could probably figure it out :) http://www.geocities.com/solarliving/Homewater/Homewater.html Luc - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 9:13 AM Subject: [Biofuel] solar hot water Greetings, Well I had planned on working on my farm first, then doing my biofuels next. First I have an argument with the power company and now, my hot water heater died. Does anyone have a favorite solar hot water site? The one I really liked a webconx is gone. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
Well I had planned on working on my farm first, then doing my biofuels next. First I have an argument with the power company and now, my hot water heater died. Does anyone have a favorite solar hot water site? The one I really liked a webconx is gone. What was the url Kim? Probably I can find it for you. Steve seems to change his urls like other people change their underwear, and he doesn't leave jump links. I've had to change all his urls at our site six times now, so probably I'm getting good at it. :-( Regards Keith Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] solar hot water
Are you going to make it yourself or buy it? I just finished setting up some solar heater boxes that have solar panels on top. The idea is to let the water take the heat away from the panels underneath and give hot water as well as electricity. Now I just have to finish wiring the solar panels and lift up on the roof. I can sketch out the design once I am finished with the plumping and wiring. The boxes are made out of folded metal with insulation inside and sit on a frame on the roof. The heat exchange I salvaged is a strange one... Has a radiator in the top and can also take hot air from a stove or other thing to heat the water as well. mel -Original Message- From: Kim Garth Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] solar hot water Greetings, Well I had planned on working on my farm first, then doing my biofuels next. First I have an argument with the power company and now, my hot water heater died. Does anyone have a favorite solar hot water site? The one I really liked a webconx is gone. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
http://www.green-trust.org/main.htm new URL for webconx.com Luc - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water Greetings, Well I had planned on working on my farm first, then doing my biofuels next. First I have an argument with the power company and now, my hot water heater died. Does anyone have a favorite solar hot water site? The one I really liked a webconx is gone. What was the url Kim? Probably I can find it for you. Steve seems to change his urls like other people change their underwear, and he doesn't leave jump links. I've had to change all his urls at our site six times now, so probably I'm getting good at it. :-( Regards Keith Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
Building your own? Kirk --- Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, Well I had planned on working on my farm first, then doing my biofuels next. First I have an argument with the power company and now, my hot water heater died. Does anyone have a favorite solar hot water site? The one I really liked a webconx is gone. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
This is the url I have, it is from May of 2001. I had downloaded the article, but that computer crashed and lost it. I am learning that sometimes hard copy is a good idea. Bright Blessings, Kim http://www.webconx.com/2000/solar/solar.htmhttp://www.webconx.com/2000/solar/solar.htm What was the url Kim? Probably I can find it for you. Steve seems to change his urls like other people change their underwear, and he doesn't leave jump links. I've had to change all his urls at our site six times now, so probably I'm getting good at it. :-( Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
BB, Kim At 10:29 AM 11/15/2004, you wrote: Building your own? Kirk --- Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, Well I had planned on working on my farm first, then doing my biofuels next. First I have an argument with the power company and now, my hot water heater died. Does anyone have a favorite solar hot water site? The one I really liked a webconx is gone. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
Hi Kim, One I use a lot is www.thermomax.com evacuated tubes, other than that www.primosa.at flat plate collectors with good price and value for money, dD _ Sign up for eircom broadband now and get a free two month trial.* Phone 1850 73 00 73 or visit http://home.eircom.net/broadbandoffer ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
page can not be displayed. I wonder if it has changed again. http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2000/solar/sunontap/page2.htmhttp://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2000/solar/sunontap/page2.htm I recognize the blurb as being part of the article that had the plans in it. Thanks for the help in trying to locate this article. BB, Kim At 09:55 AM 11/15/2004, you wrote: It really is a case of ask and ye shall receive :) http://www.green-trust.org/main.htm new URL for webconx.com Luc - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water Greetings, Well I had planned on working on my farm first, then doing my biofuels next. First I have an argument with the power company and now, my hot water heater died. Does anyone have a favorite solar hot water site? The one I really liked a webconx is gone. What was the url Kim? Probably I can find it for you. Steve seems to change his urls like other people change their underwear, and he doesn't leave jump links. I've had to change all his urls at our site six times now, so probably I'm getting good at it. :-( Regards Keith Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water
This is the url I have, it is from May of 2001. I had downloaded the article, but that computer crashed and lost it. Aarghhh! I am learning that sometimes hard copy is a good idea. Hard back-ups too. Bright Blessings, Kim http://www.webconx.com/2000/solar/solar.htmhttp://www.webconx.com/2 000/solar/solar.htm See below... Well, I search this new site and found a new url for the article, but that page can not be displayed. I wonder if it has changed again. http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2000/solar/sunontap/page2.htmhttp:// ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2000/solar/sunontap/page2.htm I recognize the blurb as being part of the article that had the plans in it. Thanks for the help in trying to locate this article. BB, Kim SUN ON TAP The Best We Know by Frederic S. Langa You Can Cut Hot Water Bill By Two-Thirds... With A Fine-Tuned Passive Solar Heater I like that one too. It's lifted from Rodale's New Shelter - July/August 1981. Here you go: http://www.green-trust.org/2000/solar/sunontap/Default.htm Not only that but Steve's site search gave you the wrong url. What a mess! :-( Download it while the going's good. Regards Keith At 09:55 AM 11/15/2004, you wrote: It really is a case of ask and ye shall receive :) http://www.green-trust.org/main.htm new URL for webconx.com Luc - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] solar hot water Greetings, Well I had planned on working on my farm first, then doing my biofuels next. First I have an argument with the power company and now, my hot water heater died. Does anyone have a favorite solar hot water site? The one I really liked a webconx is gone. What was the url Kim? Probably I can find it for you. Steve seems to change his urls like other people change their underwear, and he doesn't leave jump links. I've had to change all his urls at our site six times now, so probably I'm getting good at it. :-( Regards Keith Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
