date:20060322

Support the Troops, not the Policy.

I dont believe that the soldiers from any country are working FOR their 
government, they are working for the fact that they need to support their 
families, and the military, crappy a job though it may be, will still pay 
rent and put food out for their kids.  When one of my friends joined the US 
army, he did it to pay for college, before 9-11, and long before the plans 
for the Afghan, or Iraqi invasions were even public knowledge. Then he got 
screwed into going overseas and operating a patriot missile battery because 
his enlistment wasn't up yet, not because he wanted to support the 
government. 


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Re: [Biofuel] what is "best " sources for WVO?




assuming the food is any good , i would wager 
that the Italian restaurants would have an easier supply of oil because true 
Italian food is very forgiving, although sparing, with the oils, unless it is 
your typical american knockoff that serves fries and grease burgers with soggy 
spaghetti and calls it Italian.
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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

Well now, E. in Montana. It was your wife who joined the list, not 
you. Now you say "we joined the list", but there was no we, just her. 
Her message to the list administrators said nothing about sharing a 
joint account with you, let alone a joint list membership. She was 
twice referred to the list rules and list resources so that she would 
know what sort of community she was joining, and it didn't include 
you. You're not a list member here, you do not have the right to post 
messages. You did not make the distinction clear in your first 
message replying to Fox Mulder and everyone thought it was your wife. 
Now you say who you are so you can tell me you're a veteran who knows 
better. You just told Todd you're expecting to be kicked out for your 
behaviour. And your wife is aware of all this.

You said this to Todd:

>of that for me, since after all I did write it. I am doing my best 
>not to get thrown off >before I have everything said. So I will 
>continue to try to be nice.

Where in the world will all this NOT get you kicked out, try to be 
nice or not? You and your wife with you?

The "everything" that you feel you have to get said has all been said 
here before, many times. By vets, like you, and by vets who're not at 
all like you, there are quite a lot of them here. And what emerges is 
that it's just blinkered nonsense anyway. It fits your tactics 
though. Eg, you tell Todd you got him all "worked up" but it's you 
that's worked up, and worse, by Fox's original message.

Todd and I have argued before on the list when someone comes along 
demanding that allegedly "off-topic" posts be censored, breaking the 
oldest and strictest list rule against calling for restricted 
discussion, and so he gets the boot, as required. Todd disagrees - 
give him enough rope so he can hang himself in full public view, says 
Todd. I said the boot is what the list itself had decided but I'd 
think about it.

You haven't yet demanded that "off-topic" posts be censored, but 
what's the difference, you most certainly qualify for instant booting 
anyway, on several grounds.

However, on the contrary, go right ahead, take as much rope as you 
like. Make my day. I mean it - if you stay and argue this out point 
for point like an honest man without resorting to bluster and denial 
and namecalling, you really will make my day.

So drop the blather and state your case. But take care, don't booted 
for the wrong reasons. Follow the rules, they're here, read them 
right now, read them carefully:
http://snipurl.com/mx7r

Use this, it's required:
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (60,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

60,000 messages over six years by thousands and thousands of people 
all over the world, including many Americans, of all stripes. Think 
about it. It's the list's collective memory. Three years ago people 
here were warning about what is happening in Iraq now, and in the US 
too. And you still haven't figured it out.

>I spent 14 months in Vietnam in the Marines. I think that qualifies 
>me to know how a >lot of these guys feel.

I'm a journalist. The last person I'd ask about what's going on in a 
war zone is a soldier. I'd ask, but last, not first.

What I've said here before is that just about nobody in the world 
outside the US cares a damn about how your soldiers feel, millions of 
people have just been saying so yet again rather loudly on the 
streets of the world's capitals. They're the soldiers of an army of 
occupation following an illegal invasion of a sovereign state, which 
is a war crime, and so far they've killed between 100,000 and half a 
million people there. It's your victims people care about, not your 
brave soldiers who start shooting in all directions in the middle of 
a crowded city as soon as a mouse squeaks and use 250,000 bullets per 
dead alleged "insurgent", destroying entire cities in the doing. 
That's what soldiers do, they kill people and destroy property, 
that's what they're for.

Your reply to Fox Mulder said:

>... and that Iraqi men women and children are killing U S soldiers 
>who are there > dying for them

You just said the same thing to me:

>But what about the soldiers? As in Vietnam the people they are there 
>to protect are also >trying to kill them.

And your soldiers somehow killed hundreds of thousands of them by 
mistake? "Ooops!" ???

You added something about corrupt US politicians there, but that's a 
different subject - are you really saying that US soldiers are in 
Iraq fighting and dying for the good of Iraqi men women and children 
and you're protecting them?

In your reply to me below you acknowledge the information I posted. 
But did you read it? Like these two?

> >http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/33768/
> >Chaos Accomplished
> >
> >http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/33771/
> >Welcome to Liberated Iraq

How do you square all that (which is just from yesterday's grab bag, 
any day will do) p

Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

2006-03-22 Thread Tom Irwin






Hello All,
 
I think far too many people get their information from the boob tube. Very few people begin their discussion of the current war in Iraq with its starting point at around 1980. I have talked with more than a few of my countrymen and many still think this is a war caused by Saddam Hussein´s insane attempt to use WMD´s against us and his links with international terror. Where did they get these ideas? I believe television mostly or one of the corporate media outlets. If the only news one gets is from these sources you cannot help from being……. well brainwashed. I really wish there was another word for it. Misinformed is too weak. How else can it be explained that I and my people accepted a pre-emptive war? Think about that concept. The greatest military power in the world is going to attack you because at some time in the future you may be a threat to us. New York and Washington were not attacked by Iraq but because Saddam isn´t a nice guy and may have thought about such attacks let´s go kill him.
 
Insane, ridiculous, oversimplified, definitely and yet we swallowed it hook, line and sinker. How else other than being brainwashed can it be explained? Stupidity…..no, there are plenty of smart Americans. Laziness….no, Americans work like ants. Correct me if I´m wrong but the concept of working 24/7 comes from the American lexicon. Perhaps that´s part of the brainwashing, too. But I digress. If 
pre-emptive war is your moral starting point all of the other war crimes follow in its path. When we Americans did not stand up and say no to pre-emptive war there can be no blaming of soldiers for acts of atrocity. The huge atrocity has already been permitted by a
 ¨ free society ¨. How can anyone blame young soldiers in a war zone for their actions. They are merely the minor reflection of the crimes we have already committed. Get our children out of harms way now! Not next year or 5 months from now but now. Begin this week. We shouldn´t have gone there. It was wrong! Just get out completely. No bases, no carrier strike force, no submarine launched cruise missles. Anything else is just a mistake. Any force left behind will be abused. Get out now, get out quickly and beg for forgiveness cause we have certainly done incredible harm. 
 
Tom
 


From: regina abbott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:18:03 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'


Hello Keith This is E in Montana.  All of these things you cite about possible atrocities are disgusting and regrettable like most everything else in war. But what about the soldiers? As in Vietnam the people they are there to protect are also trying to kill them. By the way the E stands for ED, my wife and I shared an email address when we joined the list. I spent 14 months in Vietnam in the Marines. I think that qualifies me to know how a lot of these guys feel. It is no fun to spend every day waiting for a sniper bullet to end your life or to have it ended by a bomb planted by say a 3 year old child. It does something to you! It does something to you to be a  "survivor" . You never forget the ones that died and those that wish they had. And they, like us from Vietnam, get to live with the "FACT" that it was all over the money grabbing corrupt politicians. You try to remember that you served your country not the thieves running it. Also my previous post was meant to have very little to dowith this one. It was meant for the many anti-American remarks made in previous weeks.    Before you condemn a soldier, try to put yourself in his shoes. You may find some grace for him.    I am not condoning murder.

P.S. Don't knock our country. Do as you wish with our corrupt politicians!!! 


From:  Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:  Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'Date:  Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:37:29 +0900>A link:>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-2090849,00.html>US Marines investigated for Iraq war crimes - World - Times Online>March 17, 2006>By Jenny Booth and agencies>About a dozen US Marines are being investigated for possible war>crimes after the deaths last year of 15 Iraqi civilians caught in the>crossfire during a gun battle with insurgents.>>Also:>>http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12379.htm>US raid on home killed 11 family members>By Amer Amery>03/16/06 - TIKRIT, Iraq, March 15 (Reuters) - Eleven members of an>Iraqi family were killed in a U.S. raid on Wednesday, police and>witnesses said. The U.S. military said two women and a child died>during the bid to seize an al Qaeda militant from a house. A senior>Iraqi police officer said autopsies on the bodies, which included>five children, showed each had been shot in the head. Community>leaders said they were outraged at the killings and demanded an>explanation from the U.S. m

Re: [Biofuel] Global warming, oceans warming up, earth's core & climate changes

2006-03-22 Thread Tom Irwin





Hello Martin and All,
 
I have a simple question. Where is the author´s substantial evidence? Science mag.org may not be a peer reviewed journal.
 
Tom
 


From: Martin Kemple [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:59:04 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global warming, oceans warming up, earth's core & climate changesYou mean we can't blame the right-wing and SUV crowd anymore?On Mar 20, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Mike McGinness wrote:> I ran into something new (to me) recently on the topic of global> warming, CO2 and the greenhouse gas issue that I decided to follow up > on> today to see if there was anything to it.>> I have spent an entire day reading and searching the internet on the> topic and here are the best links to what I found listed below. But> first let me try to briefly introduce and summarize the highlights of> what I found.>> The main author claims that there is substantial evidence that recent> fluctuations (increases) in the amount of heat released to the earth's> oceans from the earths core has heated the oceans, raising their> temperature and thus resulting in the rapid release of CO2 to the> atmosphere (due to equilibrium shifts in CO2 solubility as a function > of> ocean water temperature) as well as rapid losses of ice at both polar> ice caps. They are claiming that thermodynamic analysis of the changes> in temperature of the oceans and the atmosphere combined with the huge> difference in heat capacity of the ocean (liquid water) versus the> atmosphere (gases) suggest that the build up of CO2 in the atmosphere > is> not the major cause of global warming but that the earths core is> cyclically heating the oceans and forcing the oceans to release CO2 to> the atmosphere. The difference in heat capacity between liquid water > and> air is several orders of magnitude (liquid water has about 1000 times> the heat capacity of air).>> A lot of their thermodynamic and chemical equilibrium arguments make a> lot of sense to me. If they are correct and if their predictions of> where the weather is headed as a result is also correct ( see climate> and ice ages at http://nov55.com/cli.html and super storms at> http://www.unknowncountry.com/edge/quickwatch/ and the "Day after> Tomorrow" http://www.cambodianonline.net/earth04014.htm ), we need to> do a lot more than just reduce CO2 emissions.>> You can find the rest of the details in the links below.>>> Theory on Hot Spot Rotating within the Earth at:> http://nov55.com/thry.html>> Heat in the Earth's Core at:> http://nov55.com/heat.html>> A page with a lot more interesting links:> http://www.cambodianonline.net/homeearthchanges.htm>> Glacial Cycles and Astronomical Forcing at:> http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/277/5323/215? > rbfvrToken=9b3e6a97683c69e3ba0c9f60006b6165cdf21028>>> ___> Biofuel mailing list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ > biofuel_sustainablelists.org>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


 
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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

Hello Jason

>Support the Troops, not the Policy.

What's the difference? Support guns but not shooting? What sense does 
that make?

>I dont believe that the soldiers from any country are working FOR their
>government, they are working for the fact that they need to support their
>families, and the military, crappy a job though it may be, will still pay
>rent and put food out for their kids.

They ARE working for their government, and describing it as a 
"crappy" job is disingenuous - unlike all other jobs, their "job", 
which they signed up for and agreed to do and were trained to do, 
whatever else they thought they might get out of it, is to kill 
people.

>When one of my friends joined the US
>army, he did it to pay for college, before 9-11, and long before the plans
>for the Afghan, or Iraqi invasions were even public knowledge. Then he got
>screwed into going overseas and operating a patriot missile battery because
>his enlistment wasn't up yet, not because he wanted to support the
>government.

It doesn't matter what he wanted. He knew what he was getting into, 
he took a chance, he hoped he'd get it for nothing but then he had to 
pay up on his side of the deal. That wasn't just an outisde chance, 
the US is almost always at war somewhere or other.

Now just why his choices in life were so narrowed down, or anyway 
that's how it seemed to him and it's almost certainly true, that's a 
whole other subject, no? You're welcome to discuss it, it's been 
discussed before, but it doesn't justify what you're trying to make 
it justify.

Even so, narrowed choices and all, he might not have been so quick to 
fall for the whole line he was fed if he hadn't had flags waved in 
his face all his life and all the myths of military glory and honour 
shoved down his throat.

If he gets killed, that'll be very sad, what a waste, but most people 
are more concerned about the victims he'll have helped to kill, and 
he did that simply by joining up.

Best

Keith


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[Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread ricalls

as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they 
usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.

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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread ROY Washbish

Hi All  Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?  Isn't that lard full of sugar?  Roy  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
		Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze. 
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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

2006-03-22 Thread Appal Energy

> Waving your national flag in a global village like
> this is like farting in church.

Chuckle..., chuckle..., snarf..., smurf...

ROFL ROFL  :-)  

Glad I wasn't sipping tea when it was read.



Keith Addison wrote:

>Well now, E. in Montana. It was your wife who joined the list, not 
>you. Now you say "we joined the list", but there was no we, just her. 
>Her message to the list administrators said nothing about sharing a 
>joint account with you, let alone a joint list membership. She was 
>twice referred to the list rules and list resources so that she would 
>know what sort of community she was joining, and it didn't include 
>you. You're not a list member here, you do not have the right to post 
>messages. You did not make the distinction clear in your first 
>message replying to Fox Mulder and everyone thought it was your wife. 
>Now you say who you are so you can tell me you're a veteran who knows 
>better. You just told Todd you're expecting to be kicked out for your 
>behaviour. And your wife is aware of all this.
>
>You said this to Todd:
>
>  
>
>>of that for me, since after all I did write it. I am doing my best 
>>not to get thrown off >before I have everything said. So I will 
>>continue to try to be nice.
>>
>>
>
>Where in the world will all this NOT get you kicked out, try to be 
>nice or not? You and your wife with you?
>
>The "everything" that you feel you have to get said has all been said 
>here before, many times. By vets, like you, and by vets who're not at 
>all like you, there are quite a lot of them here. And what emerges is 
>that it's just blinkered nonsense anyway. It fits your tactics 
>though. Eg, you tell Todd you got him all "worked up" but it's you 
>that's worked up, and worse, by Fox's original message.
>
>Todd and I have argued before on the list when someone comes along 
>demanding that allegedly "off-topic" posts be censored, breaking the 
>oldest and strictest list rule against calling for restricted 
>discussion, and so he gets the boot, as required. Todd disagrees - 
>give him enough rope so he can hang himself in full public view, says 
>Todd. I said the boot is what the list itself had decided but I'd 
>think about it.
>
>You haven't yet demanded that "off-topic" posts be censored, but 
>what's the difference, you most certainly qualify for instant booting 
>anyway, on several grounds.
>
>However, on the contrary, go right ahead, take as much rope as you 
>like. Make my day. I mean it - if you stay and argue this out point 
>for point like an honest man without resorting to bluster and denial 
>and namecalling, you really will make my day.
>
>So drop the blather and state your case. But take care, don't booted 
>for the wrong reasons. Follow the rules, they're here, read them 
>right now, read them carefully:
>http://snipurl.com/mx7r
>
>Use this, it's required:
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (60,000 messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>60,000 messages over six years by thousands and thousands of people 
>all over the world, including many Americans, of all stripes. Think 
>about it. It's the list's collective memory. Three years ago people 
>here were warning about what is happening in Iraq now, and in the US 
>too. And you still haven't figured it out.
>
>  
>
>>I spent 14 months in Vietnam in the Marines. I think that qualifies 
>>me to know how a >lot of these guys feel.
>>
>>
>
>I'm a journalist. The last person I'd ask about what's going on in a 
>war zone is a soldier. I'd ask, but last, not first.
>
>What I've said here before is that just about nobody in the world 
>outside the US cares a damn about how your soldiers feel, millions of 
>people have just been saying so yet again rather loudly on the 
>streets of the world's capitals. They're the soldiers of an army of 
>occupation following an illegal invasion of a sovereign state, which 
>is a war crime, and so far they've killed between 100,000 and half a 
>million people there. It's your victims people care about, not your 
>brave soldiers who start shooting in all directions in the middle of 
>a crowded city as soon as a mouse squeaks and use 250,000 bullets per 
>dead alleged "insurgent", destroying entire cities in the doing. 
>That's what soldiers do, they kill people and destroy property, 
>that's what they're for.
>
>Your reply to Fox Mulder said:
>
>  
>
>>... and that Iraqi men women and children are killing U S soldiers 
>>who are there > dying for them
>>
>>
>
>You just said the same thing to me:
>
>  
>
>>But what about the soldiers? As in Vietnam the people they are there 
>>to protect are also >trying to kill them.
>>
>>
>
>And your soldiers somehow killed hundreds of thousands of them by 
>mistake? "Ooops!" ???
>
>You added something about corrupt US politicians there, but that's a 
>different subject - are you really saying that US soldiers are in 
>Iraq fighting and dying for the good of Iraqi men women and

Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

This is certainly a tangled web of deception and accountability.     The left calls it a "poverty draft" when recruiters take advantage of inner city kids and sell them the whole "serve your country and yourself by learning a useful vocation or paying for college in the military". Those on the far left find it analogous to capitalism where the government actively finds ways to maintain a certain percentage of poor people who's options can be made limited in order to maintain both a labor pool and and a source for recruits.     Propaganda: Watch the commercials. They used to say "Be all you can be". now it's "An army of one" (which the anti-war movement prefers - after adding an "n"). The military is the ONLY commercial which advertises training for an occupation without showing someone working in that occupation (i.e. killing someone).     I'm close to the military
 recruitment interventions happening in my area and I can tell you that the prospects who approach the recruiting table are most often seen as the victim of a campaign of disinformation and economic circumstance. This is especially true of the men and women who join the National Guard or Coast Guard with the understanding that they would stay in-country, defending it from attack. I'm sure some of you have heard the stories that recruiters tell in order to maintain their quotas.     Sure, there are those who are fully aware of what they are getting into but, how do you distinguish one from the other?     I participated in interventions on college campuses and came across those who don't hesitate to tell you that they joined the military to smack down anyone who questions what some feel is the destiny of the US ("the white man's burden"). I actually had a Marine tell me that he is an "ideological
 imperialist". By the way, take a second to guess what this person looks like. If you said Caucasian male, good for you!     As I'm sure you are aware, the anti-war movement has one purpose but many objectives. One of them is prevention. This means "un-muddying the waters" and making clear that your primary mission in the military is to kill people and to do so without playing a roll in deciding who that might be.      Peace,     Mike     Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hello Jason>Support the Troops, not the Policy.What's the difference? Support guns but not shooting? What sense does that make?>I dont believe that the soldiers from any country are working FOR
 their>government, they are working for the fact that they need to support their>families, and the military, crappy a job though it may be, will still pay>rent and put food out for their kids.They ARE working for their government, and describing it as a "crappy" job is disingenuous - unlike all other jobs, their "job", which they signed up for and agreed to do and were trained to do, whatever else they thought they might get out of it, is to kill people.>When one of my friends joined the US>army, he did it to pay for college, before 9-11, and long before the plans>for the Afghan, or Iraqi invasions were even public knowledge. Then he got>screwed into going overseas and operating a patriot missile battery because>his enlistment wasn't up yet, not because he wanted to support the>government.It doesn't matter what he wanted. He knew what he was getting into, he took a chance, he hoped
 he'd get it for nothing but then he had to pay up on his side of the deal. That wasn't just an outisde chance, the US is almost always at war somewhere or other.Now just why his choices in life were so narrowed down, or anyway that's how it seemed to him and it's almost certainly true, that's a whole other subject, no? You're welcome to discuss it, it's been discussed before, but it doesn't justify what you're trying to make it justify.Even so, narrowed choices and all, he might not have been so quick to fall for the whole line he was fed if he hadn't had flags waved in his face all his life and all the myths of military glory and honour shoved down his throat.If he gets killed, that'll be very sad, what a waste, but most people are more concerned about the victims he'll have helped to kill, and he did that simply by joining up.BestKeith___
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[Biofuel] Stop Iran War Plot! Refute 9/11 Lies Re Muslims

2006-03-22 Thread D. Mindock




 
 
Stop 
Iran War Plot! Refute 9/11 Lies Re 
Muslims.Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 
Truthwww.mujca.comMohammed Cartoons , by Webster 
TarpleyTHE REAL CASUS BELLI: THE IRAN OIL 
BOURSEwww.mujca.com/cartoons.htm.Much of the real 
urgency of the Anglo-American attack on Iran comes not from nonexistent 
nuclear devices, but from the planned March 20 opening of the Iran oil 
bourse, the first international exchange since 1945 where buyers and sellers 
of oil can conduct their oil transactions using a currency other than the US 
dollar  in this case, the euro. The Iran oil bourse threatens the 
number one pillar of US-UK world domination,  the global hegemony of 
the dollar, as anchored in the dollar's central role in oil and other raw 
materials transactions. With the Iranian oil bourse, as much as $1 trillion 
of central bank reserves may flee the US greenback into the euro, the 
yen, and other currencies. .The concomitant exodus of hot money from 
Wall Street would then puncture the US stock bubble, the US housing bubble, 
and the US bubble economy generally, leading to a collapse of the dollar in 
international exchange and the dumping of hundreds of billions of 
dollars in US treasury bonds now in the hands of the Chinese and 
Japanese. .The transition from today's outmoded and obsolete 
dollar-based system to a dollar-euro-yen system of fixed parities, gold 
settlement, and high-technology exports to the developing sector could 
be easily handled by peaceful negotiations, but this is exactly what the 
neocons are determined to prevent. .Ironically, the neocon obsession for 
general war to preserve dollar dominance, by almost guaranteeing the closure 
of the straits of Hormuz, will lead to an even more catastrophic dollar 
collapse and world depression than the peaceful Iranian oil bourse ever 
could. The neocons, in other words, are playing a losing hand. Only fools 
would join them. REFUTE THE BLOOD LIBEL OF 9/11.In terms 
of the battle of ideas, the other great task for the Moslem 
world and for persons of good will everywhere is to contribute to the utmost 
to the dismantling and discrediting of the ultimate blood libel against 
Islam, the fantastic Atlanticist  myth surrounding 
the events of September 11, 2001. .The international 9/11 truth 
movement has shown how rogue networks inside the Pentagon and CIA organized 
those events. Since the basis of every attack on Islam is 9/11, it is 
incumbent on Moslems to join in refuting the myth. 
.This will have the additional effect of eroding Bush's fanatical 
political base, and preparing his fall..WORLD PEACE.In my 
address to the Inter-Religious Conference in Khartoum, Sudan in October 
1994, I pleaded for a platform of ecumenical and irenic cooperation among 
the world's great faiths based in the comprehensive scientific, 
technological, and economic development of all nations. This is the call of 
Christianity, with its imperative of charity (agape) and faith expressed 
through good works, as in the second great commandment: love your neighbor. 
.This is the call of the doctrine of social solidarity in Islam. This 
is the call of Confucian benevolence and the related need for rulers to 
promote prosperity and education. .These are the ideas reflected in 
similar impulses prominent in Buddhism, Judaism, and other faiths. These are 
ideas readily accessible to persons of good will whose outlook is purely 
secular, whatever their political persuasion. .Humanity must act now 
to neutralize war provocations, and thus to prevent the horrors of war 
itself. 
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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

Hello Tom

>Hello All,
>
>I think far too many people get their information from the boob 
>tube. Very few people begin their discussion of the current war in 
>Iraq with its starting point at around 1980.

Or 1920?

>I have talked with more than a few of my countrymen and many still 
>think this is a war caused by Saddam Hussein¬¥s insane attempt to 
>use WMD¬¥s against us and his links with international terror. Where 
>did they get these ideas? I believe television mostly or one of the 
>corporate media outlets. If the only news one gets is from these 
>sources you cannot help from beingÄ¶Ä¶. well brainwashed. I really 
>wish there was another word for it. Misinformed is too weak.

Misled is stronger, disinformed stronger still, lied to stronger yet, 
but none of that explains the denial and conscious rejection with 
which they so often defend the lies they've been fed. So 
"brainwashed" it has to be.

I think you're forgetting a major source of it though. As well as 
from FauxTV, millions of them get it from the pulpit - God told them. 
And if you disagree you must therefore be a creature of the Devil. Of 
course Boy George gets it direct from God on his personal hotline.

We've had lots about this before. Here's some more:

'Interview with Kevin Phillips, longtime Republican strategist and 
author of several books. His newest work, "American Theocracy," comes 
out today. A review in Sunday's New York Times said the book may be 
"the most alarming analysis of where we are and where we may be going 
to have appeared in many years."'
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/1418243
Democracy Now! | Interview - Former GOP Strategist Kevin Phillips on 
American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, 
and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century

There's also this, just in from US historian Howard Zinn:

"Now that most Americans no longer believe in the war, now that they 
no longer trust Bush and his Administration, now that the evidence of 
deception has become overwhelming (so overwhelming that even the 
major media, always late, have begun to register indignation), we 
might ask: How come so many people were so easily fooled?

"... It seems to me there are two reasons, which go deep into our 
national culture, and which help explain the vulnerability of the 
press and of the citizenry to outrageous lies whose consequences 
bring death to tens of thousands of people. If we can understand 
those reasons, we can guard ourselves better against being deceived.

"One is in the dimension of time, that is, an absence of historical 
perspective. The other is in the dimension of space, that is, an 
inability to think outside the boundaries of nationalism. We are 
penned in by the arrogant idea that this country is the center of the 
universe, exceptionally virtuous, admirable, superior.

"If we don't know history, then we are ready meat for carnivorous 
politicians and the intellectuals and journalists who supply the 
carving knives..."
-- America's Blinders
by Howard Zinn
Published on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 by the Progressive
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0321-20.htm

 From Tom Feeley's offerings for the day:

They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, 
because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of 
them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice 
what was happening : George Orwell

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed 
by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even 
hearing about them: George Orwell

Best

Keith



>How else can it be explained that I and my people accepted a 
>pre-emptive war? Think about that concept. The greatest military 
>power in the world is going to attack you because at some time in 
>the future you may be a threat to us. New York and Washington were 
>not attacked by Iraq but because Saddam isn¬¥t a nice guy and may 
>have thought about such attacks let¬¥s go kill him.
>
>Insane, ridiculous, oversimplified, definitely and yet we swallowed 
>it hook, line and sinker. How else other than being brainwashed can 
>it be explained? StupidityÄ¶..no, there are plenty of smart 
>Americans. LazinessÄ¶.no, Americans work like ants. Correct me if 
>I¬¥m wrong but the concept of working 24/7 comes from the American 
>lexicon. Perhaps that¬¥s part of the brainwashing, too. But I 
>digress. If
>
>pre-emptive war is your moral starting point all of the other war 
>crimes follow in its path. When we Americans did not stand up and 
>say no to pre-emptive war there can be no blaming of soldiers for 
>acts of atrocity. The huge atrocity has already been permitted by a
>
> ¬® free society ¬®. How can anyone blame young soldiers in a war 
>zone for their actions. They are merely the minor reflection of the 
>crimes we have already committed. Get our children out of harms way 
>now! Not next year or 5 months from now but now. Begin this week. We 
>shou

[Biofuel] FW: Dedicated to the Victims of 9/11* A MUST SEE!*

2006-03-22 Thread D. Mindock




 

 
This is a must see link.Of Donald B. 
JeffriesSent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:19 PMTo: Undisclosed 
RecipientSubject: [raymcbeealliance] Dedicated to the Victims of 
9/11Friends,Now, here's a most disturbing video. If you do want 
to see it, set aside 1hour 20 minutes to watch it  - it's very long - 
or you can download it fromthe site and watch it later (the download button 
is in the upper rightcorner of the screen).The video, which is very 
well researched, speculates - quite clearly andwith great clarity - that not 
only did the Bush folks lie about whathappened on 9/11, but may well have 
orchestrated the whole thing themselves,killing lots of innocent people in 
order to pursue an agenda.The link is:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+changeBe 
prepared to be disturbed. Be prepared to want to do something, in anactivist 
way, after you see it.Donald

 
 

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Re: [Biofuel] what is "best " sources for WVO?

2006-03-22 Thread Kenji James Fuse

After travelling across the USA and Canada on used grease, I definitely
recommend trying the Asian places first. Nine out of ten times, they have
the cleanest oil.

Here at home, I get all the oil I need from two Japanese restaurants, and
a fancy-pants place where a friend of mine works.

Good luck!

Kenji Fuse


On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, greg Kelly wrote:

> I am wondering about where to start my search for places to get my WVO when I 
> am ready for it. With Italian, Mexican and Asian restaraunts in abundance, in 
> addition to the usual burger joints, which is likely to produce a better 
> product? I did some scrolling through the archives, but apparently wasn't 
> using the right method/words to get anywhere quickly. After about 30 minutes, 
> my eyes gave out and I am posting this message. Thanks in advance for any and 
> all help in advance. Greg Kelly

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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

>From: "regina abbott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Continued participation in Biofuel list.
>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:19:21 -0600
>
>My apology to all for the way I went about things is being held 
>hostage by Kieth. I sent it in before I opened his and your emails. 
>It would be a nice gesture for all to hear this. But after all the 
>ranting and raving that Keith did in his email and then carrying his 
>anger onto the list at approximately the same time against Jason, I 
>very much doubt that he would do that unless I become what he wants 
>me to be. Never! Never! Never! He can keep his attitude and his 
>list. We no longer want any part of either. Please remove us. Ed and 
>Regina Abbott - 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] PS it is the 
>one addressed to Todd , I sent him a copy also since it was mostly 
>meant for him.

Funny how they so often accuse you of anger when you don't agree with 
them. Just like when it turns out the ones doing all the "US-bashing" 
and "hating" America turn out to be Americans themselves - then 
they're at worst traitors or at best should leave the country, which 
indeed Ed suggested Todd should do since he's so "bitter".

Sigh...

So he didn't make my day, but I wasn't exactly holding my breath.

Nothing was being held to ransom, by the way, but Ed - an intruder 
here - was told he would not be allowed to post any further messages 
until he'd agreed to abide by the list rules.

No message of apology or any message was received from Regina. What 
didn't get posted were three messages from Ed: a reply to Todd 
telling him he should chill out because he actually agrees with Ed 
even if he doesn't know it, one telling Robert he should wake up, and 
a long rant that didn't seem to mean anything much but it sure wasn't 
an apology, just a further attempt to shove Ed's jingoism down 
everybody's throat.

"Soldiers on trial for atrocities! Never in my lifetime have I seen 
propaganda used to such a degree as now... We don't need to be 
degraded and maligned." - Ed.

No apology.

IMHO any ex-Marine who'd learnt anything worth knowing would be 
fighting tooth and nail to stop the war in Iraq, as indeed so many 
are doing, eg:
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/33533/
Fog of War or War Crimes?
By Michael Slenske, SMITH Magazine. Posted March 17, 2006.
"Jimmy Massey, the Marines' most outspoken anti-war war criminal, 
talks about what really happened on the road to Baghdad."

It says this in the list rules that neither of these people can be 
bothered to read: "But would you walk into a strange bar in a foreign 
city and give everyone orders about what they may and may not 
discuss? Of course not." Ed did though, not only that he told them 
they're morons from a garbage pit. And told this list of all lists 
that we should have a great evening and "remember it is due to some 
American soldier that you are able to". LOL! Well I had a great 
evening anyway.

Exit Ed and Regina Abbott, cherished notions no doubt intact and sod 
the collateral. No loss. Not even honest. Back to business.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner


>Well now, E. in Montana. It was your wife who joined the list, not
>you. Now you say "we joined the list", but there was no we, just her.
>Her message to the list administrators said nothing about sharing a
>joint account with you, let alone a joint list membership. She was
>twice referred to the list rules and list resources so that she would
>know what sort of community she was joining, and it didn't include
>you. You're not a list member here, you do not have the right to post
>messages. You did not make the distinction clear in your first
>message replying to Fox Mulder and everyone thought it was your wife.
>Now you say who you are so you can tell me you're a veteran who knows
>better. You just told Todd you're expecting to be kicked out for your
>behaviour. And your wife is aware of all this.
>
>You said this to Todd:
>
> >of that for me, since after all I did write it. I am doing my best
> >not to get thrown off >before I have everything said. So I will
> >continue to try to be nice.
>
>Where in the world will all this NOT get you kicked out, try to be
>nice or not? You and your wife with you?
>
>The "everything" that you feel you have to get said has all been said
>here before, many times. By vets, like you, and by vets who're not at
>all like you, there are quite a lot of them here. And what emerges is
>that it's just blinkered nonsense anyway. It fits your tactics
>though. Eg, you tell Todd you got him all "worked up" but it's you
>that's worked up, and worse, by Fox's original message.
>
>Todd and I have argued before on the list when someone comes along
>demanding that allegedly "off-topic" posts be censored, breaking the
>oldest and strictest list rule against calling for restricted
>discussion, and so he gets the boot, as required. Todd disag

Re: [Biofuel] FW: Dedicated to the Victims of 9/11* A MUST SEE!*

2006-03-22 Thread Evergreen Solutions

Wait a minute

you mean somone with a video camera and some video editing software
believes there might be a widespread consipiracy involving 9/11?

Actually, on a completely different note, I saw an enhanced version of
the zapruder film the other day where it looks VERY MUCH like Kennedy
was shot by the driver of his car

I personally believe there's a conspiracy to convince people there's a
conspiracy to keep americans from knowing what the truth actually
is...which I believe is somewhere in the field between full blown
conspiracy and complete accident.

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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

O.K...so much for giving the benefit of the doubt. Your response was better measured than I thought Todd. I read the recent post in this thread and the following quote got my attention: " E ED" in Montana wrote: "It will be in realitive saftey because of American soldiers that died for you to be able to do so." Relative to what " E ED" in Montana? You don't think that the US makes the world a more dangerous place? You think that placing nuclear missiles in Turkey didn't provoke the Cuban missile crisis or that having the vast majority of WMD's in the world, then pointing the finger at others is a way to promote peace? http://www.zmag.org/Instructionals/ForeignPolicy/id101_m.htm
You don't think that a US attack against a Soviet sub almost caused the Northern hemisphere to become a radioactive wasteland? You don't think there were US submarines off the Russian coast provoking a war? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Alexandrovich_Arkhipov You think that acts of aggression against Cuba (i.e. Operation Mongoose, Operation North Woods, etc.) was an effort to keep the American people informed and find a diplomatic and peaceful resolution in the region? You don't think that in 1964, the provocation in the Bay of Tonkin was meant to draw us into a war with North Vietnam? You think that John Negroponte was sent to Honduras, Nicaragua and Iraq to help democracy flourish? http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/27/1435207 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Negroponte You think that the School of the Americas is a school for diplomacy? http://www.soaw.org/new/ Do Israeli soldiers (the military of one of our biggest allies) feel they are making their country safer by killing children? Does the US feel they are making the region safer by turning a blind eye when both Turkey and Israel have as many security council violations as Saddam Hussein's Iraq? http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special-edition/terrorism50/unresolu.htm http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A4BD8038-8970-4542-9E9C-E4FD18C11051.htm You think John Bolton was sent to the UN to make friends? http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0413-21.htm http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/USveto.html http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/uspol/archindx.htm Why do you suppose our "friends", Turkey and
Columbia receive such huge foreign aid packages while being such huge human rights violators? Hell why stop there? Ask the same question about our other friends, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Have you ever wondered what logic they use in picking friends? Why does the US government preach free elections, then condemn some of the freely elected presidents of some countries without having evidence that they did anything wrong? http://www.thepanamanews.com/pn/v_11/issue_05/review_02.html There is no one in the world as good as our federal government when it comes to fabricating fear, an enemy, and an excuse for war. Mike Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Peace ( ONLY WON IN BATTLE)Ya' gotta' kill em' to make em' kind, eh?:-)And we all know what happens when "the other side" drinks from the same trough of reasoning, don't we?As for soldiers being the linchpin of everything we have at our "disposal" today? A part of? Yes. The epicenter? No.As well, take a look around and ask yourself if maybe there are a few "things" we would be better off without and if the world might be a better place if we hadn't been afforded much of what we don't need at the expense of so canon fodder.Todd Swearingenregina abbott wrote:> Hello Mike > ,Todd > This is " E ED" in Montana. Do you realize that most anywhere you > sit down to sip your whatever and make degrading statements, > in HARMONY I'M SURE, about American citizens. It will be in realitive > saftey because of American soldiers that died
for you to be able to do > so. It would be less confusing if my posts were > posted. Sorry Todd I sent yours twice but Keith will probably catch > it. You all just have a great evening and remember > it is due to some American soldier that you are able > to. Peace ( ONLY WON IN BATTLE) >[snip]___
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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

2006-03-22 Thread Joe Street

Mike you are doing such a good job there's nothing left for me to say
here :)
LOL  It's ok I have my George Bush " war criminal" shirt on today so I
am still getting my word in today!

Joe

Michael Redler wrote:

  O.K...so much for giving the benefit of the doubt.

  Your response was better measured than I thought Todd.

I read the recent post in this thread and the following quote got my
attention:

  " E ED" in Montana wrote: "It will be in realitive saftey
because of American soldiers that died for you to be able to do so."

  Relative to what " E ED" in Montana?

  You don't think that the US makes the world a more dangerous
place?

  You think that placing nuclear missiles in Turkey didn't provoke
the Cuban missile crisis or that having the vast majority of WMD's in
the world, then pointing the finger at others is a way to promote peace?

  http://www.zmag.org/Instructionals/ForeignPolicy/id101_m.htm

  You don't think that a US attack against a Soviet sub almost
caused the Northern hemisphere to become a radioactive wasteland? You
don't think there were US submarines off the Russian coast provoking a
war?

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Alexandrovich_Arkhipov

  You think that acts of aggression against Cuba (i.e. Operation
Mongoose, Operation North Woods, etc.) was an effort to keep the
American people informed and find a diplomatic and peaceful resolution
in the region?

  You don't think that in 1964, the provocation in the Bay of
Tonkin was meant to draw us into a war with North Vietnam?

  You think that John Negroponte was sent to Honduras, Nicaragua
and Iraq to help democracy flourish?

  http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/27/1435207

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Negroponte

  You think that the School of the Americas is a school for
diplomacy?

  http://www.soaw.org/new/

  Do Israeli soldiers (the military of one of our biggest allies)
feel they are making their country safer by killing children? Does the
US feel they are making the region safer by turning a blind eye when
both Turkey and Israel have as many security council violations as
Saddam Hussein's Iraq?

  http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special-edition/terrorism50/unresolu.htm

  http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A4BD8038-8970-4542-9E9C-E4FD18C11051.htm

  You think John Bolton was sent to the UN to make friends?

  http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0413-21.htm

  http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/USveto.html

  http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/uspol/archindx.htm

  Why do you suppose our "friends", Turkey and Columbia receive
such huge foreign aid packages while being such huge human rights
violators? Hell why stop there? Ask the same question about our other
friends, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Have you ever wondered what logic
they use in picking friends?

  Why does the US government preach free elections, then condemn
some of the freely elected presidents of some countries without having
evidence that they did anything wrong?

  http://www.thepanamanews.com/pn/v_11/issue_05/review_02.html

  There is no one in the world as good as our federal government
when it comes to fabricating fear, an enemy, and an excuse for war.

  Mike

  Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  >
Peace ( ONLY WON IN BATTLE)

Ya' gotta' kill em' to make em' kind, eh?

:-)

And we all know what happens when "the other side" drinks from the same

trough of reasoning, don't we?

As for soldiers being the linchpin of everything we have at our 
"disposal" today? A part of? Yes. The epicenter? No.

As well, take a look around and ask yourself if maybe there are a few 
"things" we would be better off without and if the world might be a 
better place if we hadn't been afforded much of what we don't need at 
the expense of so canon fodder.

Todd Swearingen

regina abbott wrote:

> Hello Mike 
> ,Todd 
> This is " E ED" in Montana. Do you realize that most anywhere you 
> sit down to sip your whatever and make degrading statements, 
> in HARMONY I'M SURE, about American citizens. It will be in
realitive 
> saftey because of American soldiers that died for you to be able
to do 
> so. It would be less confusing if my posts were 
> posted. Sorry Todd I sent yours twice but Keith will probably
catch 
> it. You all just have a great evening and remember 
> it is due to some American soldier that you are able 
> to. Peace ( ONLY WON IN BATTLE) 
>
[snip]

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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

2006-03-22 Thread Gary L. Green

In 1980 I was stationed in Incirlik, Turkey with the Armed Forces  
Radio and Television Service (A-fARTS).  They had me go out and get  
sound bites from different units to use on the air with station IDs  
and holiday promos.

I wandered over to a hanger and some gear head goes: Happy Holidays  
from the Nuke Pukes.  We keep the Air Force from being just another  
airline.

For some reason, Command didn't want word getting out that we STILL  
had nukes in Turkey.

I had a real knack for getting into trouble in the military.  Happy  
to say, I still got out with an honorable discharge.

On  22Mar, 2006, at 11:22 PM, Michael Redler wrote:

> You think that placing nuclear missiles in Turkey didn't provoke  
> the Cuban missile crisis or that having the vast majority of WMD's  
> in the world, then pointing the finger at others is a way to  
> promote peace?
>

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[Biofuel] Ontario first to subsidize solar electric power

2006-03-22 Thread mark manchester



Apparently viewable at ctvstory.html

Jesse




Ontario first to subsidize solar electric power

Ontario has become Canada's first province to offer cash incentives for
homeowners or businesses that install solar electric power generators.
Premier Dalton McGuinty made the announcement Tuesday, which
environmentalists lauded as the way of the future.
"We're taking a bold, new step that will allow hundreds of small, local,
renewable energy producers to get into the energy market," McGuinty said at
a press conference in Cambridge, alongside Energy Minister Donna Cansfield.
"We're setting a fixed price or a standard offer for small, renewable energy
projects." 
Under the program, the Ontario Power Authority will buy power produced by
wind farms and other renewable methods at 11 cents per kilowatt-hour.

The fixed price for solar energy will be 42 cents per kilowatt-hour, and all
the electricity generated will be sold to the local utility.
The province estimates the initiative, called the Standard Offer Program,
will add as much as 1,000 megawatts of renewable energy to Ontario's power
grid over the next 10 years.
That amount could power about 250,000 homes.
But setting up a solar-powered system may prove to be expensive for a
typical homeowner as it can cost between $20,000 and $30,000.
Selling back the power would generate about $1,500 a year for the homeowner
who would then buy their power from the utility at the current rate, which
is now less than six cents a kilowatt-hour.
It could take as long as 20 years to break even. However, the systems are
built to last 40 years or longer, which could mean plenty of time to profit
in the long run. 
In 2004, the governing Liberals committed to generating five per cent, or
1,350 megawatts, of electricity through renewable sources by 2007.
"Encouraging communities to develop more renewable electricity, will help
clean up our air, create jobs and contribute to our long-term prosperity,"
McGuinty said in a statement. 


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[Biofuel] This Year's Garden

2006-03-22 Thread robert luis rabello


Two weeks ago we had snow here.  Since then, however, we've had warm 
days and our trees and shrubs are in a riot of blossoming.  The pear 
tree that I was CERTAIN wouldn't make it through last summer is 
literally covered in buds, and the two Italian prunes that were so 
badly infested with aphids last season are putting out their new 
leaves already.

My boys and I have been getting rid of winter weeds.  This morning 
I'm going to the bovine auction barn to pick up at least one load of 
composted barn litter.  Hopefully, the owners of the place haven't had 
the oldest and best material carted off to a landfill somewhere!  I 
do, however, have quite a pile of compost that's been brewing over the 
winter.  I intend to put that material into my raised beds and see how 
things go there this year.

By the way, while I was cleaning out the compost bin day before 
yesterday, my youngest son told me he saw a rat inside.  I didn't 
believe him until I dug out a bit more material, and suddenly, the rat 
appeared!  It was a rather healthy looking specimen, I'd say, but I'm 
really glad my sweetheart wasn't there to see it!

So I'm hoping that all of this composting will help my trees ward off 
infestation this summer.  I noticed that the predatory wasps are back 
now, but there doesn't seem to be a lot for them to eat.  We have 
robins hunting for worms in our yard, songbirds nesting in our 
neighbor's cedar hedges, and overall, our lot seems almost anxious to 
be productive again!  (Though the horsetail hasn't come up yet, and 
I'm just WAITING for that to happen!)

We have brand new seed, rather than someone else's cast offs, and it 
will be interesting to see if we get more vigorous growth this time 
around.  One of the really nice things about planning and planting a 
garden, is that it's an intrinsically optimistic activity.  Despite 
all the bad news in the world, there are good things happening in my soil.

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread Bob Carr




Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in 
your feedstock. This is an old favourite additive for sabotaging an 
engine.
Reg'ds
Bob

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ROY Washbish 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for 
  WVO
  
  Hi All
  Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
  Isn't that lard full of sugar?
  Roy
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  as 
i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they 
usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less 
fats.___Biofuel 
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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread Zeke Yewdall

What exactly would sugar do to an engine?  The worst I can think of is
clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits.

Zeke

On 3/22/06, Bob Carr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is an
> old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine.
> Reg'ds
>
> Bob
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: ROY Washbish
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>
>
> Hi All
> Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
> Isn't that lard full of sugar?
> Roy
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they
> usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.
>
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>
>  
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>
>
>  
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] Global warming, oceans warming up, earth's core & climate changes

2006-03-22 Thread Mike McGinness

Tom,

Good question. I decided to find out for sure. Here is a link which
says:

  Science is a weekly, peer-reviewed journal
that publishes
  significant original scientific research,
plus reviews and
  analyses of current research and science
policy. Our
  offices in Washington, D.C., and
Cambridge, U.K.,
  welcome submissions from all fields of
science and from
  any source.

  Competition for space in Science is keen,
and many
  papers are returned without in-depth
review. Priority is
  given to papers that reveal novel concepts
of broad
  interest. We are committed to the prompt
evaluation and
  publication of submitted papers. For the
quickest and most
  efficient processing of your manuscript,
please follow the
  guidelines and procedures laid out in this
author help site:

http://www.sciencemag.org/about/authors/

He also sites papers published in Nature which is considered by many to
be the premier peer-reveiwed journal on original new research work, but
I do not have a suscription and I have not been able to get to the
actual article text that he cited as it is not free online.

Mike McGinness

Tom Irwin wrote:

> Hello Martin and All, I have a simple question. Where is the author´s
> substantial evidence? Science mag.org may not be a peer reviewed
> journal. Tom
>
>  -
>

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Re: [Biofuel] what is "best " sources for WVO?

2006-03-22 Thread Jack Schwartz



This news item seemingly has some relevance for the best sources for WVO
thread.
   -- Jack
---

Northwest Burger Chain Begins Biodiesel Production Plan 

March 22, 2006 
Vancouver, Washington [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] The Holland, Inc.,
announced that it has implemented a program in which it will recycle the
cooking oil from its Burgerville restaurants into biodiesel, a cleaner
burning blend of diesel fuel. All 39 Burgerville locations throughout the
Pacific Northwest will have their used cooking oil picked up by
Portland-based MRP Services and taken to a processing plant where the oil
is transformed into methyl esters (biodiesel) and glycerin (a byproduct)
through a process called transesterification.
[continues]


http://renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=44412


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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread Bob Carr

It leaves a horrid toffee like deposit on your valves , pistons, rings and 
every other part that comes into contact with the fuel.
When your piston rings are glued into their grooves, the sugar deposits will 
find their way into your engine oil where they act as an abrasive on all 
your bearing surfaces.
I have actually witnessed 2lbs of sugar poured into a guys tank, his engine 
was irreparably damaged within 50 miles

- Original Message - 
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO


> What exactly would sugar do to an engine?  The worst I can think of is
> clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits.
>
> Zeke
>
> On 3/22/06, Bob Carr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is 
>> an
>> old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine.
>> Reg'ds
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: ROY Washbish
>> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>>
>>
>> Hi All
>> Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
>> Isn't that lard full of sugar?
>> Roy
>>
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they
>> usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.
>>
>> ___
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>> messages):
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Biofuel] FW: Dedicated to the Victims of 9/11* A MUST SEE!*

2006-03-22 Thread Zeke Yewdall

While I don't doubt that certain elements within the US government
would wish 9/11 to happen, I find it hard to believe that the CIA is
competent enough to pull it off.  A far more logical answer is that we
were attacked by Bin Laden because we were too incompetent or arrogant
to protect ourselves (after he gave us many warnings...)

Don't assign to malevolency what could be explained by mere incompetence.

On 3/22/06, Evergreen Solutions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wait a minute
>
> you mean somone with a video camera and some video editing software
> believes there might be a widespread consipiracy involving 9/11?
>
> Actually, on a completely different note, I saw an enhanced version of
> the zapruder film the other day where it looks VERY MUCH like Kennedy
> was shot by the driver of his car
>
> I personally believe there's a conspiracy to convince people there's a
> conspiracy to keep americans from knowing what the truth actually
> is...which I believe is somewhere in the field between full blown
> conspiracy and complete accident.
>
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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread Jan Warnqvist

Hello Zeke et al.
A very unscientific trial feeding sugar into the air intake(without air
filter) suggested that sugar does not harm the engine at all, just
combusting together with tha gasoline. According to this experiment, the
melting points and boiling points of the sugar (sackarose) are rather close.
Jan
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO


> What exactly would sugar do to an engine?  The worst I can think of is
> clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits.
>
> Zeke
>
> On 3/22/06, Bob Carr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is
an
> > old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine.
> > Reg'ds
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: ROY Washbish
> > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
> >
> >
> > Hi All
> > Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
> > Isn't that lard full of sugar?
> > Roy
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they
> > usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.
> >
> > ___
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http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
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> > messages):
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >  Yahoo! Mail
> > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread David Miller

Bob Carr wrote:
> It leaves a horrid toffee like deposit on your valves , pistons, rings and 
> every other part that comes into contact with the fuel.
> When your piston rings are glued into their grooves, the sugar deposits will 
> find their way into your engine oil where they act as an abrasive on all 
> your bearing surfaces.
> I have actually witnessed 2lbs of sugar poured into a guys tank, his engine 
> was irreparably damaged within 50 miles
>
>   

Was this a gas or diesel engine?  I'd think the diesel would be far 
harder to destroy this way because there's normally a large excess of 
oxygen available for the combustion of the sugar.  With a gas engine 
running somewhere around a stoiciometric fuel/air ratio having extra 
carbon would lead to the heavy deposits you describe.  It would be 
interesting if it's as bad in diesels.

--- David


> - Original Message - 
> From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>
>
>   
>> What exactly would sugar do to an engine?  The worst I can think of is
>> clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits.
>>
>> Zeke
>>
>> On 3/22/06, Bob Carr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is 
>>> an
>>> old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine.
>>> Reg'ds
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: ROY Washbish
>>> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All
>>> Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
>>> Isn't that lard full of sugar?
>>> Roy
>>>
>>>
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they
>>> usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Biofuel mailing list
>>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>>
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>>>
>>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>>> messages):
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
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>>> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>   
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>   


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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread Bob Carr

Yep, this was a petrol engine, maybe a diesel would be more resilient
- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO


> Bob Carr wrote:
>> It leaves a horrid toffee like deposit on your valves , pistons, rings 
>> and
>> every other part that comes into contact with the fuel.
>> When your piston rings are glued into their grooves, the sugar deposits 
>> will
>> find their way into your engine oil where they act as an abrasive on all
>> your bearing surfaces.
>> I have actually witnessed 2lbs of sugar poured into a guys tank, his 
>> engine
>> was irreparably damaged within 50 miles
>>
>>
>
> Was this a gas or diesel engine?  I'd think the diesel would be far
> harder to destroy this way because there's normally a large excess of
> oxygen available for the combustion of the sugar.  With a gas engine
> running somewhere around a stoiciometric fuel/air ratio having extra
> carbon would lead to the heavy deposits you describe.  It would be
> interesting if it's as bad in diesels.
>
> --- David
>
>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>>
>>
>>
>>> What exactly would sugar do to an engine?  The worst I can think of is
>>> clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits.
>>>
>>> Zeke
>>>
>>> On 3/22/06, Bob Carr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
 Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is
 an
 old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine.
 Reg'ds

 Bob


 - Original Message -
 From: ROY Washbish
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO


 Hi All
 Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
 Isn't that lard full of sugar?
 Roy


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they
 usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.

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Re: [Biofuel] FW: Dedicated to the Victims of 9/11* A MUST SEE!*

2006-03-22 Thread Marty Phee

One thing that has concerned me for some time is the gov't increasing
reliance on outside contracts for many parts of the military and
intelligence.

During the war they had contractors refusing to delivery supplies
because of the dangers.  Could a soldier get away with that.

There's a lot of money to be made during war time.  I wouldn't put it
past someone to misplace key pieces of information.  Eisenhower said it
very well in his speech.  We need to be careful of the Military
Industrial Complex.

Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> While I don't doubt that certain elements within the US government
> would wish 9/11 to happen, I find it hard to believe that the CIA is
> competent enough to pull it off.  A far more logical answer is that we
> were attacked by Bin Laden because we were too incompetent or arrogant
> to protect ourselves (after he gave us many warnings...)
>
> Don't assign to malevolency what could be explained by mere incompetence.
>
> On 3/22/06, Evergreen Solutions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Wait a minute
>>
>> you mean somone with a video camera and some video editing software
>> believes there might be a widespread consipiracy involving 9/11?
>>
>> Actually, on a completely different note, I saw an enhanced version of
>> the zapruder film the other day where it looks VERY MUCH like Kennedy
>> was shot by the driver of his car
>>
>> I personally believe there's a conspiracy to convince people there's a
>> conspiracy to keep americans from knowing what the truth actually
>> is...which I believe is somewhere in the field between full blown
>> conspiracy and complete accident.
>> 


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[Biofuel] source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread ricalls

many donut shop chains in america claim to use pure vegetable oil in 
response to a new healthy breed of fat american. i cannot speak for the 
independant donut shop. there is some sugar in the batter that is the 
donut but i do not know if enough of this sugar transfers into the oil 
to be of consequence.

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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread logan vilas

Wouldn't the sugar be washed out of the biodiesel? It will disolve in water 
and most if not all of it would be removed.

Logan Vilas
- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Carr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO


> It leaves a horrid toffee like deposit on your valves , pistons, rings and
> every other part that comes into contact with the fuel.
> When your piston rings are glued into their grooves, the sugar deposits 
> will
> find their way into your engine oil where they act as an abrasive on all
> your bearing surfaces.
> I have actually witnessed 2lbs of sugar poured into a guys tank, his 
> engine
> was irreparably damaged within 50 miles
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>
>
>> What exactly would sugar do to an engine?  The worst I can think of is
>> clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits.
>>
>> Zeke
>>
>> On 3/22/06, Bob Carr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is
>>> an
>>> old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine.
>>> Reg'ds
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: ROY Washbish
>>> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All
>>> Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
>>> Isn't that lard full of sugar?
>>> Roy
>>>
>>>
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they
>>> usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
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>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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[Biofuel] UAE, Saudi considering to move reserves out of dollar

http://www.middleeastforex.com/index.php?section=147

UAE, Saudi considering to move reserves out of dollar

WASHINGTON - A number of Middle Eastern central banks said on Tuesday 
they would seek to switch reserves from the US greenback to euros.

The United Arab Emirates said it was considering moving one-tenth of 
its dollar reserves to the euro, while the governor of the Saudi 
Arabian central bank condemned the decision by the United States to 
force Dubai Ports World to transfer its ownership to a 'US entity,' 
the UK Independent reported.

"Is it protectionism or discrimination? Is it okay for US companies 
to buy everywhere but it is not okay for other companies to buy the 
US?" said Hamad Saud Al Sayyari, the governor of the Saudi Arabian 
monetary authority.

The head of the United Arab Emirates central bank, Sultan Nasser Al 
Suweidi, said the bank was considering converting 10 per cent of its 
reserves from dollars to euros.

"They are contravening their own principles," said Al Suweidi. 
"Investors are going to take this into consideration (and) will look 
at investment opportunities through new binoculars."

The Commercial Bank of Syria has already switched the state's foreign 
currency transactions from dollars to euros, Duraid Durgham head of 
the state-owned bank said. The decision by the bank of Syria follows 
the announcement by the White House calling on all US financial 
institutions to end correspondent accounts with Syria due to 
money-laundering concerns.

Syria's Finance Minister Mohammad Al Hussein said: "Syria affirms 
that this decision and its timing are fundamentally 
political."-Khaleej Times Online


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Re: [Biofuel] UAE, Saudi considering to move reserves out of dollar

2006-03-22 Thread Hakan Falk

This is something that worried me for a long time and maybe "the sh-t 
will hit the fan" now. Let us hope that this is only a blimp and not 
a major attack on the US economy. This is potentially a very powerful 
WMD and directed against US, who was very stupid . It is however 
understandable if they lost their patience with US and are prepared 
to take the economical consequences of hurting the dollar and US. In 
financial  circles, the trust in the word of US was lost a long time 
ago. The cost for the oil countries will however be enormous and they 
would not take it, if they still had any belief in the dollar as 
world currency. If they lost the belief in the US economical future, 
then they might use the reserves at the time when it would hurt US as most.

If this escalate, US might try to occupy more of the worlds oil 
reserves. The experiences from Iraq are however depressing, it is 
very difficult and militarily expensive to try to maintain the oil 
production under occupation. US have showed to be inept in drawing on 
the Iraqi reserves and any new conflict would hurt US the most. Even 
if US is militarily powerful, it is very difficult to translate this 
to a rise in oil production, which take a lot more manpower. In Iraq 
the oil production is barely a quarter to a half of the pre war 
production. The situation does not look good at all and it will spill 
over to Europe, if US take actions. US will find itself in a lonely 
spot and against the rest of the world and could result in less 
honorable wars in South America and other places who have energy 
resources with shorter and defendable transportation routes. Pressure 
on Canada to deliver will go up several magnitudes.

Hakan

At 20:46 22/03/2006, you wrote:
>http://www.middleeastforex.com/index.php?section=147
>
>UAE, Saudi considering to move reserves out of dollar
>
>WASHINGTON - A number of Middle Eastern central banks said on Tuesday
>they would seek to switch reserves from the US greenback to euros.
>
>The United Arab Emirates said it was considering moving one-tenth of
>its dollar reserves to the euro, while the governor of the Saudi
>Arabian central bank condemned the decision by the United States to
>force Dubai Ports World to transfer its ownership to a 'US entity,'
>the UK Independent reported.
>
>"Is it protectionism or discrimination? Is it okay for US companies
>to buy everywhere but it is not okay for other companies to buy the
>US?" said Hamad Saud Al Sayyari, the governor of the Saudi Arabian
>monetary authority.
>
>The head of the United Arab Emirates central bank, Sultan Nasser Al
>Suweidi, said the bank was considering converting 10 per cent of its
>reserves from dollars to euros.
>
>"They are contravening their own principles," said Al Suweidi.
>"Investors are going to take this into consideration (and) will look
>at investment opportunities through new binoculars."
>
>The Commercial Bank of Syria has already switched the state's foreign
>currency transactions from dollars to euros, Duraid Durgham head of
>the state-owned bank said. The decision by the bank of Syria follows
>the announcement by the White House calling on all US financial
>institutions to end correspondent accounts with Syria due to
>money-laundering concerns.
>
>Syria's Finance Minister Mohammad Al Hussein said: "Syria affirms
>that this decision and its timing are fundamentally
>political."-Khaleej Times Online

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Re: [Biofuel] UAE, Saudi considering to move reserves out of dollar

2006-03-22 Thread Hakan Falk


I forgot to point out that if this is serious, it will move very 
fast. A lot of people must be very worried now and try to move 
silently and fast. It might be unstoppable, once and if it becomes an 
avalanche. I am happy that I no longer have any dollar assets, but it 
is many that are less happy and they will try to protect themselves. 
Let us hope that I am wrong and do not understand the picture and UAE 
is honest when they say that it is only 10 percent.

Hakan


At 21:43 22/03/2006, you wrote:

>This is something that worried me for a long time and maybe "the sh-t
>will hit the fan" now. Let us hope that this is only a blimp and not
>a major attack on the US economy. This is potentially a very powerful
>WMD and directed against US, who was very stupid . It is however
>understandable if they lost their patience with US and are prepared
>to take the economical consequences of hurting the dollar and US. In
>financial  circles, the trust in the word of US was lost a long time
>ago. The cost for the oil countries will however be enormous and they
>would not take it, if they still had any belief in the dollar as
>world currency. If they lost the belief in the US economical future,
>then they might use the reserves at the time when it would hurt US as most.
>
>If this escalate, US might try to occupy more of the worlds oil
>reserves. The experiences from Iraq are however depressing, it is
>very difficult and militarily expensive to try to maintain the oil
>production under occupation. US have showed to be inept in drawing on
>the Iraqi reserves and any new conflict would hurt US the most. Even
>if US is militarily powerful, it is very difficult to translate this
>to a rise in oil production, which take a lot more manpower. In Iraq
>the oil production is barely a quarter to a half of the pre war
>production. The situation does not look good at all and it will spill
>over to Europe, if US take actions. US will find itself in a lonely
>spot and against the rest of the world and could result in less
>honorable wars in South America and other places who have energy
>resources with shorter and defendable transportation routes. Pressure
>on Canada to deliver will go up several magnitudes.
>
>Hakan
>
>At 20:46 22/03/2006, you wrote:
> >http://www.middleeastforex.com/index.php?section=147
> >
> >UAE, Saudi considering to move reserves out of dollar
> >
> >WASHINGTON - A number of Middle Eastern central banks said on Tuesday
> >they would seek to switch reserves from the US greenback to euros.
> >
> >The United Arab Emirates said it was considering moving one-tenth of
> >its dollar reserves to the euro, while the governor of the Saudi
> >Arabian central bank condemned the decision by the United States to
> >force Dubai Ports World to transfer its ownership to a 'US entity,'
> >the UK Independent reported.
> >
> >"Is it protectionism or discrimination? Is it okay for US companies
> >to buy everywhere but it is not okay for other companies to buy the
> >US?" said Hamad Saud Al Sayyari, the governor of the Saudi Arabian
> >monetary authority.
> >
> >The head of the United Arab Emirates central bank, Sultan Nasser Al
> >Suweidi, said the bank was considering converting 10 per cent of its
> >reserves from dollars to euros.
> >
> >"They are contravening their own principles," said Al Suweidi.
> >"Investors are going to take this into consideration (and) will look
> >at investment opportunities through new binoculars."
> >
> >The Commercial Bank of Syria has already switched the state's foreign
> >currency transactions from dollars to euros, Duraid Durgham head of
> >the state-owned bank said. The decision by the bank of Syria follows
> >the announcement by the White House calling on all US financial
> >institutions to end correspondent accounts with Syria due to
> >money-laundering concerns.
> >
> >Syria's Finance Minister Mohammad Al Hussein said: "Syria affirms
> >that this decision and its timing are fundamentally
> >political."-Khaleej Times Online



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[Biofuel] [biocarburants] revue de presse biocarburants

2006-03-22 Thread F. Desprez

On demande un label pour les biocarburants
http://www.univers-nature.com/inf/inf_actualite1.cgi?id=2204

Une necessaire evaluation globale des biocarburants, INRA, 14/02/06
http://www.inra.fr/presse/evaluation_des_biocarburants

Source d'énergie renouvelable en plein essor, les biocarburants
devraient être produits de façon plus durable
http://www.actu-environnement.com/ae/news/1601.php4

Les automobilistes européens vont carburer au plastique
http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=367768


source : 
Liste de diffusion revuedepresse
Pour s'inscrire : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pour se désinscrire : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

+



  France Puts Tiger in Tank of its Biofuel Push

(la France met un tigre dans son réservoir de biocarburant - 28 février)
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-2-28/38765.html


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Re: [Biofuel] Let me choose

2006-03-22 Thread JJJN

Imagine if we could get GW to play center :)

Michael Redler wrote:

> Imagine Iraqi leaders starting every session wearing everything but 
> the skates.
>  
> ...if only the soldiers could be replaced with NHL refs and the worst 
> that ever happened was a few broken bones and some missing teeth.
>  
> Mike
>
> */JJJN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>
> Iraq policy debates would be the equal to a good Canadian Hockey
> game :)
>
> Michael Redler wrote:
>
> > What would happen if US voters watched CSPAN with the same
> enthusiasm
> > they watch Major League Baseball, the NBA or NFL?
> >
> > Your favorite Senator or Congressperson would make a speech and you
> > "high-five" your pretzel eating friends on either side. There could
> > even be a cottage merchandising industry - you know, inflatable
> > chairs, cheese-head hats for your favorite representative from
> > Wisconsin, etc.
> >
> > Mike
> [snip]
>
>
>
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>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread JJJN

Thank you Logan,
Yes you will wash out anything soluble in water, but woe to those that 
do not wash Biodiesel -they will have more than sugar to deal with.
Jim

logan vilas wrote:

>Wouldn't the sugar be washed out of the biodiesel? It will disolve in water 
>and most if not all of it would be removed.
>
>Logan Vilas
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Bob Carr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:59 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>
>
>  
>
>>It leaves a horrid toffee like deposit on your valves , pistons, rings and
>>every other part that comes into contact with the fuel.
>>When your piston rings are glued into their grooves, the sugar deposits 
>>will
>>find their way into your engine oil where they act as an abrasive on all
>>your bearing surfaces.
>>I have actually witnessed 2lbs of sugar poured into a guys tank, his 
>>engine
>>was irreparably damaged within 50 miles
>>
>>- Original Message - 
>>From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:21 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>What exactly would sugar do to an engine?  The worst I can think of is
>>>clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits.
>>>
>>>Zeke
>>>
>>>On 3/22/06, Bob Carr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>  
>>>
Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is
an
old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine.
Reg'ds

Bob


- Original Message -
From: ROY Washbish
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO


Hi All
Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
Isn't that lard full of sugar?
Roy


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they
usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.

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>>>___
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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread JJJN

Ricalls,
They would be an excellent source for your oil but if they use lard you 
should use the Base Base method after you have mastered the basics.  
Lard,tallow give a very good grade of fuel with the exception of winter 
qualities. they also have to change the grease out often if they serve 
good donuts

Jim

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they 
>usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.
>
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>  
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[Biofuel] Living the Good Life

2006-03-22 Thread BT

http://www.afsc.org/pwork/0202/020219.htm

 Scott Nearing -- Peace Activist and Practical Conservationist

Shepherd Bliss visited the Nearings at their Forest Farm in the mid-1980s and
now owns the organic Kokopelli Farm, PO Box 1040, Sebastopol CA 95473;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Scott Nearing


Scott Nearing is best known for a book he wrote with his wife Helen, Living the
Good Life: How to Live Sanely and Simply in a Troubled World, in l954. The
Nearings stimulated a back-to-the-land movement that they embodied for 50
years, until Scott's death at the age of l00 in l983. Scott Nearing's writing
during World Wars I and II have growing relevance as the US starts the 21st
century's first major war. America's weapons have developed, but the main
reasons for its war-making remain the same, and were well-described by Nearing
over 80 years ago.

A young University of Pennsylvania economics professor as World War I began,
Scott Nearing wrote a pamphlet about war, The Great Madness, that documented
the commercial causes of war. Nearing asserted that the main purpose of the US
military was "to guard the hundreds of millions of dollars...invested in
'undeveloped' countries." For such views and for speaking out against child
labor, the university fired Nearing.

In "The Menace of Militarism" Nearing said, he "analyzed... military
preparedness and war-making as sources of business profits. My Oil and the
Germs of War explained the role of the petroleum and other big business
interests in the international struggle for sources of raw material, markets,
and investment opportunities." Over 80 years later, the US (led by oilmen)
begins its Afghan War, caused partly by our oil dependency.

"War is an attempt of one group to impose its will upon another group by armed
violence," Nearing observed, adding, "But war has wider implications. War
offers those in power a chance to rid themselves of opposition while covering
up their designs with patriotic slogans." The leaders of the US's current war
pursue a domestic agenda against "opposition," as well as an international one.

"War drags human beings from their tasks of building and improving, and pushes
them en masse into the category of destroyers and killers." Wars transform the
societies that wage them. The Afghanistan War gives US-based terrorists
permission to commit violence, including the use of anthrax and other weapons.

"The event which finally tore me away from my commitment to western civilization
was the decision of Harry Truman to blot out the city of Hiroshima," Nearing
said. "This decision was one of the most crucial ever made by modern man. The
decision was the death sentence of western civilizationthe use of atomic
weapons against Japan was not only a crime against humanity, but was a blunder
which would lead to a gigantic build-up of the planet's destructive
forces...Humanity is today astride a guided missile equipped with a nuclear
warhead."

War's degradation of nature also concerned Nearing, "Man is able to live on the
earth because its soil, water, air, sunshine, and the radiant forces which play
so large a part in the preservation of life exist in relative abundance."
Nearing wrote about how the planet's natural resources had "been squandered in
waging war," especially "supplies of fuels and metals." He criticized "the
pollution and poisoning of land, water, and air by the waste products of
concentrated urban life and of large-scale industry." Nearing became a critic
of technology and western civilization, and a practical conservationist.

In 1932, as he approached 50, Scott Nearing abandoned the city for country
living. He and Helen Nearing inspired thousands of visitors to their Forest
Farm in Vermont and Maine. That inspiration continues through their books and
the Good Life Center, which still hosts events and welcomes visitors.

In Freedom: Promise and Menace--A Critique of the Cult of Freedom(1961) Nearing
wrote that "in the present world crisis conservatives are using the 'freedom'
slogan to win support for their reactionary policies." As politicians once
again shout the "freedom" slogan, it is important not to be deceived.

Scott Nearing opposed all forms of "tyranny, despotism, and irresponsive power"
and proclaimed, "I believe in democracy." He was one of America's greatest 20th
century peace activists and practical conservationists. As the Afghan War
threatens to spread, it is worth returning to his writing and to the Nearings'
model of living in harmony with nature.



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[Biofuel] What Is a Patriot?

2006-03-22 Thread BT

http://knowledgenews.net/moxie/samples/portrait-patriot-2.shtml

What Is a Patriot?

Get the spirit of '76

Does the name William Livingston ring a bell? Probably not. But in 1753,
Livingston--a lawyer who led the New Jersey militia during the American
Revolution and who became the state's first governor--masterfully articulated
the 18th-century ideal of patriotism.

We First (Or at Least Second)

Livingston put his patriotic pen to work in a series of essays called The
Independent Reflector. He wrote:

He is a Patriot who prefers the Happiness of the Whole, to his own private
Advantage. . . . He is a Patriot, the ruling Object of whose Ambition, is the
public Welfare: whose Zeal, chastised by Reflection, is calm, steady and
undaunted . . . Whom no partial Ties can prevail on to act traitorously to the
Community, and sacrifice the Interest of the Whole to that of a Part.

The patriot, in other words, is no narrow partisan, no party propagandist, no
pursuer of pork. On the contrary, the patriot pursues nothing less than the
good of the community as a whole, setting aside personal and "local" interests.
For the patriot, duty to country is the highest calling--"next to the Duty we
owe the Supreme Being."

Of course, no one thought such selfless nonpartisanship would be easy to come
by. Livingston and his contemporaries were well aware that overweening ambition
and factional strife come naturally to human beings (that's why they designed a
government full of checks and balances). Yet they were also firm believers in
the idea that we are by nature socially interested as well as self-interested
people.

"Zeal, Chastised by Reflection"

Just about everyone today defines patriotism as "love of country." But for
Livingston:

Merely to love the Public, to wish it well, to feel for it, in all its
Vicissitudes, is not sufficient. . . . To exemplify our Love for the Public, as
far as our Ability and Sphere of Action will extend, is true Patriotism. . . . I
go still farther. Whoever is unstudious of the public Emolument, who denies it a
Share of his thinking Hours, and refuses to exert his Head, his Heart, and his
Hands in its Behalf, is a Foe to Society.

Love without action, says Livingston, isn't enough. Patriotism requires
service--love and labor. Mental labor, too. Serving the common good requires
deliberation, "thinking Hours" that lead to constructive efforts as opposed to
knee-jerk responses. The patriot's zeal is "chastised by reflection."

Disagreements are allowed. The "common good" is no monolithic truth. It is a
constant negotiation among the different and often conflicting ideas of the
community. Livingston even points to a patriotism of protest, noting that when
the country's leaders go wrong, the patriot "mourns for their Vices, and exerts
his Abilities to work a Reformation."

Fitting Service

Eventually, Livingston found himself in military service. But, as Thomas Paine
pointed out in 1777, the term "patriot" has never been restricted solely to
those who fight. Paine wrote:

Nature, in the arrangement of mankind, has fitted some for every service in
life: were all soldiers, all would starve and go naked, and were none soldiers,
all would be slaves. . . . All we want to know in America is simply this, who is
for independence, and who is not?

Those who are for independence, Paine says, will contribute to its cause in
various ways. During World War II, Eleanor Roosevelt called on women across
America to save cooking fat for the war effort. Why? Because cooking fat
contains glycerin, which is used to make gunpowder. Saving cooking fat was a
small thing, but it was no less patriotic for that.

For America's founders, acting deliberately, for the good of the whole
community, because you care about its well being, is patriotic--even if your
service seems small. But, they believed, you must serve somehow.

--Steve Sampson

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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

2006-03-22 Thread Jack Schwartz



Concerning the results of adding sugar to gasoline - 
I find data suggesting that relatively low amounts of sugar present in
gasoline might be fairly harmless compared to 2lbs of sugar poured into a
gas tank, resulting in the engine being irreparably damaged within 50
miles, as reported by Bob Carr.  Like Bob, I have also know about
similar horror stories so I do not aim to discredit Bob's
information.  I only mean to suggest that minor amounts of sugar in
a candidate WVO may not rule out its usefulness.
A slide presentation that includes data for a systematic study of sugar
added to gasoline is cited.
   -- Jack
---
A History of Engine Defeat Through Chemical Means
Kenneth R. Collins
Donald R. Bowie
US Army Edgewood Chemical Biological Center
Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland

One of the more interesting aspects of nonlethal warfare considers
the
possibility of the defeat of engines without causing extensive damage
to their
surroundings or operating personnel. [continues, slides 10
to 14]
Complete Slide presentation:

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/nld4/collins2.pdf
[Slide 9 of 14]
Engine Defeat Through Chemical Means -
Sugar  Fact or Fiction? 
*Upper limits for solubility of sucrose in gasoline using
C14 labeled sugar - 1.5 mg/liter (ca 2 ppm) 

    J. Forensic Sciences
38, pg 757 (July 93)

& 39, pp 303-304 (Mar 94)
*ASTM D-381 gum results - SwRI Unpublished Data

   
Neat    Granulated 
Powdered Brown
   
Fuel
Sugar
Sugar  
Sugar
Diesel
DF-2   
10.3 
8.5   
5.7   
5.6
Jet
A  
0.5 
1.0   
0.7   
0.7
JP-4   
0.6 
0.3   
0.4   
3.2
Unleaded
Gasoline  
1.2 
1.0   
0.2   
1.6
1urs10 gm of sugar added to 1 liter
of fuel, stirred for 24 hours
--
[On the slide, this quote is added to emphasize the distinction
between high and low sugar addition.]
A large amount of sugar could stop fuel flow in many
systems but so could plain dust swept from the ground.
--- 

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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

i didnt get the impression that kieth was MAD at me... where did they come 
up with that?
he said what he was thinking on the subject and went his merry way, whatever 
these Abbott folks are drinking/smoking they need to share it, because it 
would make my day at work S much easier. hehehe  ;)

GO KIETH!!,

jason

- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'


> >From: "regina abbott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Continued participation in Biofuel list.
>>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:19:21 -0600
>>
>>My apology to all for the way I went about things is being held
>>hostage by Kieth. I sent it in before I opened his and your emails.
>>It would be a nice gesture for all to hear this. But after all the
>>ranting and raving that Keith did in his email and then carrying his
>>anger onto the list at approximately the same time against Jason, I
>>very much doubt that he would do that unless I become what he wants
>>me to be. Never! Never! Never! He can keep his attitude and his
>>list. We no longer want any part of either. Please remove us. Ed and
>>Regina Abbott -
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] PS it is the
>>one addressed to Todd , I sent him a copy also since it was mostly
>>meant for him.
>
> Funny how they so often accuse you of anger when you don't agree with
> them. Just like when it turns out the ones doing all the "US-bashing"
> and "hating" America turn out to be Americans themselves - then
> they're at worst traitors or at best should leave the country, which
> indeed Ed suggested Todd should do since he's so "bitter".
>
> Sigh...
>
> So he didn't make my day, but I wasn't exactly holding my breath.
>
> Nothing was being held to ransom, by the way, but Ed - an intruder
> here - was told he would not be allowed to post any further messages
> until he'd agreed to abide by the list rules.
>
> No message of apology or any message was received from Regina. What
> didn't get posted were three messages from Ed: a reply to Todd
> telling him he should chill out because he actually agrees with Ed
> even if he doesn't know it, one telling Robert he should wake up, and
> a long rant that didn't seem to mean anything much but it sure wasn't
> an apology, just a further attempt to shove Ed's jingoism down
> everybody's throat.
>
> "Soldiers on trial for atrocities! Never in my lifetime have I seen
> propaganda used to such a degree as now... We don't need to be
> degraded and maligned." - Ed.
>
> No apology.
>
> IMHO any ex-Marine who'd learnt anything worth knowing would be
> fighting tooth and nail to stop the war in Iraq, as indeed so many
> are doing, eg:
> http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/33533/
> Fog of War or War Crimes?
> By Michael Slenske, SMITH Magazine. Posted March 17, 2006.
> "Jimmy Massey, the Marines' most outspoken anti-war war criminal,
> talks about what really happened on the road to Baghdad."
>
> It says this in the list rules that neither of these people can be
> bothered to read: "But would you walk into a strange bar in a foreign
> city and give everyone orders about what they may and may not
> discuss? Of course not." Ed did though, not only that he told them
> they're morons from a garbage pit. And told this list of all lists
> that we should have a great evening and "remember it is due to some
> American soldier that you are able to". LOL! Well I had a great
> evening anyway.
>
> Exit Ed and Regina Abbott, cherished notions no doubt intact and sod
> the collateral. No loss. Not even honest. Back to business.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> KYOTO Pref., Japan
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> Biofuel list owner
>
>
>>Well now, E. in Montana. It was your wife who joined the list, not
>>you. Now you say "we joined the list", but there was no we, just her.
>>Her message to the list administrators said nothing about sharing a
>>joint account with you, let alone a joint list membership. She was
>>twice referred to the list rules and list resources so that she would
>>know what sort of community she was joining, and it didn't include
>>you. You're not a list member here, you do not have the right to post
>>messages. You did not make the distinction clear in your first
>>message replying to Fox Mulder and everyone thought it was your wife.
>>Now you say who you are so you can tell me you're a veteran who knows
>>better. You just told Todd you're expecting to be kicked out for your
>>behaviour. And your wife is aware of all this.
>>
>>You said this to Todd:
>>
>> >of that for me, since after all I did write it. I am doing my best
>> >not to get thrown off >before I have everything said. So I will
>> >continue to try to be nice.
>>
>>Where in the world will all this NOT get you kicked out, try to be
>>nice or not? You and your wife with you?
>>
>>The "everything" that you feel you have to g

[Biofuel] National Socialism Triumphs in USA

2006-03-22 Thread BT



http://www.bigeye.com/losingit.htm
Below is a brief excerpt from Mr. Gore Vidal's recent book, Inventing a
Nation Yale University Press 2003, p30-31, referring to comments
made to America's 1787 Constitutional Convention by the nation's great
universal man, Benjamin Franklin:



"At eighty-one Franklin was too feeble to address the convention on its
handiwork, and so a friend read for him the following words: 'I
agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such:
because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no
Form
of Government but which may be a Blessing to the People if well
administered; and I believe further that this is likely to be well
administered for a Course of Years and can only end in Despotism as
other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so
currupted as to need a Despotic Government, being incapable of any
other.'



Now, two centuries and sixteen years later, Franklin's blunt dark
prophecy has come true: popular corruption has indeed given birth to
that Despotic
Government which he foresaw as inevitable at our
birth..."

National Socialism Triumphs in USA


Rise
of the Fourth Reich




"Watch the pincer movement. If
you're sick of one version, we push you into the other. We get you
coming and going. We've closed the doors. We've fixed the coin.
Headscollectivism, and tailscollectivism. Fight the doctrine which
slaughters the individual with a doctrine which slaughters the
individual. Give up your soul to a councilor give it up to a leader.
But give it up, give it up, give it up. ... Offer poison as food and
poison as antidote. Go fancy on the trimmings, but hang on to the main
objective. Give the fools a choice, let them have their funbut don't
forget the only purpose you have to accomplish. Kill the individual.
Kill man's soul. The rest will follow automatically."
Ellsworth Toohey in The
Fountainhead, by Ayn Rand.


'It Can't Happen
Here' by Sinclair Lewis, 1934 (online edition)




Big Brother is Watching and
Listening to You

 America or
Germany in the 1930's?

12
Warning Signs of Fascism

A
Layman's Look at The Communist Manifesto.

It
wasn't a very happy holiday

A Fascist
America - How close are we?

Wake up
and smell the fascism

Gott mit uns:
On Bush and Hitlers rhetoric

The Emergence
of the Fascist American Theocratic State

The
U.S. Patriot Act and Hitler's Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act)

Congressman Ron Paul's
speeches

Your
papers, please...

Brownshirts Dressed in
Blue?

Echos of Nazi Propaganda &
Policies

The Nazi Mind-Set in America

Camps
for Citizens: Ashcroft's Hellish Vision

Goebbels
Rallies the People

The 9/11 Reichstag
Fire

 The
CIA's Worst-Kept  Secret

The
Nazi Hydra in America

The Overthrow of the American
Republic

The
Secret Service  now our own home-grown "SS"
A little American History
lesson

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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'




this is going to sound very twisted, but if you 
think about it it makes sense.
corporately speaking having a democratic government 
(greek definition of "people's rule", not today's garbage)  is like a 
ceo allowing interns to make major decisions, and having only one or a 
small group of hand picked goons running a country makes it easier to 
control them from an imperial standpoint. its like hiring a 
manager.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Redler 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:22 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US 
  marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'
  
  O.K...so much for giving the benefit of the doubt.
   
  Your response was better measured than I thought Todd.
  I read the recent post in this thread and the following quote 
  got my attention:
   
  " E ED" in Montana wrote: "It will be in realitive saftey because of 
  American soldiers that died for you to be able to do so."
   
  Relative to what " E ED" in Montana?
   
  You don't think that the US makes the world a more dangerous place?
   
  You think that placing nuclear missiles in Turkey didn't provoke the 
  Cuban missile crisis or that having the vast majority of WMD's in the world, 
  then pointing the finger at others is a way to promote peace?
   
  http://www.zmag.org/Instructionals/ForeignPolicy/id101_m.htm 
   
  You don't think that a US attack against a Soviet sub almost caused 
  the Northern hemisphere to become a radioactive wasteland? You don't think 
  there were US submarines off the Russian coast provoking a war?
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Alexandrovich_Arkhipov
   
  You think that acts of aggression against Cuba (i.e. Operation Mongoose, 
  Operation North Woods, etc.) was an effort to keep the American people 
  informed and find a diplomatic and peaceful resolution in the region?
   
  You don't think that in 1964, the provocation in the Bay of Tonkin was 
  meant to draw us into a war with North Vietnam?
   
  You think that John Negroponte was sent to Honduras, Nicaragua and 
  Iraq to help democracy flourish?
  http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/27/1435207
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Negroponte
   
  You think that the School of the Americas is a school for 
diplomacy?
   
  http://www.soaw.org/new/
   
  Do Israeli soldiers (the military of one of our biggest allies) feel they 
  are making their country safer by killing children? Does the US feel they are 
  making the region safer by turning a blind eye when both Turkey and Israel 
  have as many security council violations as Saddam Hussein's Iraq?
   
  
  http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special-edition/terrorism50/unresolu.htm
   
  http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A4BD8038-8970-4542-9E9C-E4FD18C11051.htm
   
  You think John Bolton was sent to the UN to make friends?
   
  http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0413-21.htm
   
  http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/USveto.html
   
  http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/uspol/archindx.htm
   
  Why do you suppose our "friends", Turkey ! and Columbia receive such huge 
  foreign aid packages while being such huge human rights violators? Hell why 
  stop there? Ask the same question about our other friends, Saudi Arabia and 
  Pakistan. Have you ever wondered what logic they use in picking friends?
   
  Why does the US government preach free elections, then condemn some of 
  the freely elected presidents of some countries without having evidence that 
  they did anything wrong?
   
  http://www.thepanamanews.com/pn/v_11/issue_05/review_02.html
   
  There is no one in the world as good as our federal government when it 
  comes to fabricating fear, an enemy, and an excuse for war.
   
  Mike
   
  Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  > 
Peace ( ONLY WON IN BATTLE)Ya' gotta' kill em' to make em' kind, 
eh?:-)And we all know what happens when "the other side" 
drinks from the same trough of reasoning, don't we?As for 
soldiers being the linchpin of everything we have at our "disposal" 
today? A part of? Yes. The epicenter? No.As well, take a look around 
and ask yourself if maybe there are a few "things" we would be better 
off without and if the world might be a better place if we hadn't been 
afforded much of what we don't need at the expense of so canon 
fodder.Todd Swearingenregina abbott wrote:> 
Hello Mike > ,Todd > This is " E ED" in Montana. Do you 
realize that most anywhere you > sit down to sip your whatever and 
make degrading statements, > in HARMONY I'M SURE, about American 
citizens. It will be in realitive > saftey because of American 
soldiers ! that died for you to be able to do > so. It would be less 
confusing if my posts were > posted. Sorry Todd I sent yours twice 
but Keith will probably catch > it. You all just have a great evening 
and remember > it is due to some American soldier

[Biofuel] Agent Faults FBI on 9/11

2006-03-22 Thread D. Mindock




 This is just another piece that fits into the puzzle 
called "What was Cheney doing on 9/11?"
I believe he was an active 
player in the Twin Tower razing. (Building 7, though not hit, went 

down in the same controlled 
manner as the towers.) Dubya was sidelined at that 
elementary
school in Florida, so as to 
appear innocent. Peace, D. Mindock
.
Agent Faults FBI on 9/11
The man who caught Zacarias 
Moussaoui testifies that higher-ups blocked his efforts to determine whether 
there was a larger plot.
By Richard A. Serrano, Times 
Staff WriterMarch 21, 2006 

ALEXANDRIA, Va. — The FBI 
agent who arrested Zacarias Moussaoui weeks before Sept. 11 told a federal jury 
Monday that his own superiors were guilty of "criminal negligence and 
obstruction" for blocking his attempts to learn whether the terrorist was part 
of a larger cell about to hijack planes in the United States.During 
intense cross-examination, Special Agent Harry Samit — a witness for the 
prosecution — accused his bosses of acting only to protect their positions 
within the FBI.
 
His testimony appeared to 
undermine the prosecution's case for the death penalty. Prosecutors argue that 
had Moussaoui cooperated by identifying some of the 19 hijackers, the FBI could 
have alerted airport security and kept them off the planes.Moussaoui is 
the only person to have been convicted in the United States on charges stemming 
from Sept. 11. His sentencing trial began several weeks ago, but the 
prosecution's case was nearly gutted when it was learned that a lawyer for the 
Transportation Security Administration had improperly coached key aviation 
security witnesses. U.S. District Judge Leonie M. Brinkema decided to allow the 
government to present a limited amount of aviation testimony and 
evidence.Samit's recollections Monday were the first ground-level 
account of how FBI agents in Minneapolis — where Moussaoui was arrested on a 
visa violation 3½ weeks before the attacks — were appalled that their Washington 
supervisors denied their requests for search warrants in the effort to find out 
why the Frenchman was taking flying lessons and what role he might have in a 
wider plan to attack America."They obstructed it," a still-frustrated 
Samit told the jury, calling his superiors' actions a calculated management 
decision "that cost us the opportunity to stop the attacks."The 
government considers Samit's testimony essential to its case. On March 9, the 
agent told the court about his arrest of Moussaoui, now 37, and his desperate 
efforts to win the suspect's cooperation.Yet much of his testimony 
Monday might have backfired on the government. The jury easily could have been 
left with the impression of an FBI so at odds with itself that it not only 
missed critical clues of an impending terrorist attack, but did not even know 
how best to coordinate efforts to stop it.Samit was not alone in his 
contempt for his superiors.His suspicions were backed up by Coleen 
Rowley, then an FBI lawyer in Minneapolis, who in a May 2002 memo to FBI 
Director Robert S. Mueller III complained that Washington had blocked efforts to 
determine what Moussaoui was really doing. Rowley is not scheduled to testify 
during the sentencing phase.Moussaoui pleaded guilty last year to being 
a part of the Sept. 11 conspiracy. His lawyers maintain that the government had 
plenty of leads in the summer of 2001 that a major terrorist action was afoot, 
even without Moussaoui's cooperation. They point to a memo by an FBI agent in 
Phoenix warning of Middle Eastern men taking flying lessons, and the fact that 
then-CIA Director George J. Tenet was apprised of Moussaoui's 
arrest.Samit testified Monday that he never knew of the Phoenix memo or 
of Tenet's interest in the case. He also said he was kept in the dark about the 
Aug. 6, 2001, presidential daily briefing given to Bush during his vacation in 
Texas. That briefing, titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.," noted 
"patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations 
for hijackings or other types of attacks.""I didn't see it," Samit 
testified. "I did not see anything like that."Defense lawyer Edward B. 
MacMahon Jr. also used his cross-examination of Samit to suggest that law 
enforcement officials never took such threats seriously then 
anyway.Under MacMahon's daylong questioning, Samit said that officials 
at the FBI headquarters in Washington rejected a series of attempts to obtain a 
warrant to search Moussaoui's personal belongings.Had the belongings 
been opened before Sept. 11, agents would have found numerous small knives, 
jumbo-jet pilot manuals, rosters of flight schools and other clues that might 
have helped them understand the Sept. 11 plot.Samit wanted to seek a 
criminal search warrant, and later one from a special intelligence court. But 
officials at the FBI headquarters refu

Re: [Biofuel] Let me choose

Damn! If hockey decided the fate of nations, Canadians would be running the whole show.     Of course, Canadians can't make sense of the "white man's burden", no matter how many Molsons you give 'em. So, I wouldn't expect them to do stuff like put Kofe Annan up against the glass and have bench clearing brawls with developing countries who can't afford skates, sticks or proper padding because the IMF repossessed their equipment as part of a loan bailout agreement.     MikeJJJN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Imagine if we could get GW to play center :)Michael Redler wrote:> Imagine Iraqi leaders starting every session wearing everything but > the skates.> > ...if only the soldiers could be replaced with NHL refs and the worst >
 that ever happened was a few broken bones and some missing teeth.> > Mike>> */JJJN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:>> Iraq policy debates would be the equal to a good Canadian Hockey> game :)>> Michael Redler wrote:>> > What would happen if US voters watched CSPAN with the same> enthusiasm> > they watch Major League Baseball, the NBA or NFL?> >> > Your favorite Senator or Congressperson would make a speech and you> > "high-five" your pretzel eating friends on either side. There could> > even be a cottage merchandising industry - you know, inflatable> > chairs, cheese-head hats for your favorite representative from> > Wisconsin, etc.> >> > Mike> [snip]___
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Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'

It is twisted, and a pretty close analogy to US policy today (perhaps more than an analogy). Thanks. Mike Jason & Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: this is going to sound very twisted, but if you think about it it makes sense. corporately speaking having a democratic government (greek definition of "people's rule", not today's garbage) is like a ceo allowing interns to make major decisions, and having only one or a small group of hand picked goons running a country makes it easier to control them from an imperial standpoint. its like hiring a manager.- Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'O.K...so much for giving the benefit of the doubt. Your response was better measured than I thought Todd. I read the recent post in this thread and the following quote got my attention: " E ED" in
Montana wrote: "It will be in realitive saftey because of American soldiers that died for you to be able to do so." Relative to what " E ED" in Montana? You don't think that the US makes the world a more dangerous place? You think that placing nuclear missiles in Turkey didn't provoke the Cuban missile crisis or that having the vast majority of WMD's in the world, then pointing the finger at others is a way to promote peace? http://www.zmag.org/Instructionals/ForeignPolicy/id101_m.htm You don't think that a US attack against a Soviet sub almost caused the Northern hemisphere to become a radioactive wasteland? You don't think there were US submarines off the Russian coast provoking a war? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Alexandrovich_Arkhipov You think that acts of aggression against Cuba (i.e. Operation Mongoose, Operation North Woods, etc.) was an effort to keep the American people informed and find a diplomatic and peaceful resolution in the region? You don't think that in 1964, the provocation in the Bay of Tonkin was meant to draw us into a war with North Vietnam? You think that John Negroponte was sent to Honduras, Nicaragua and Iraq to help democracy flourish? http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/27/1435207 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Negroponte You think that
the School of the Americas is a school for diplomacy? http://www.soaw.org/new/ Do Israeli soldiers (the military of one of our biggest allies) feel they are making their country safer by killing children? Does the US feel they are making the region safer by turning a blind eye when both Turkey and Israel have as many security council violations as Saddam Hussein's Iraq? http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special-edition/terrorism50/unresolu.htm http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A4BD8038-8970-4542-9E9C-E4FD18C11051.htm You think John Bolton was sent to the UN to make friends?
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0413-21.htm http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/USveto.html http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/uspol/archindx.htm Why do you suppose our "friends", Turkey ! and Columbia receive such huge foreign aid packages while being such huge human rights violators? Hell why stop there? Ask the same question about our other friends, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Have you ever wondered what logic they use in picking friends? Why does the US government preach free elections, then condemn some of the freely elected presidents of some countries without having evidence that they did anything wrong?
http://www.thepanamanews.com/pn/v_11/issue_05/review_02.html There is no one in the world as good as our federal government when it comes to fabricating fear, an enemy, and an excuse for war. Mike Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Peace ( ONLY WON IN BATTLE)Ya' gotta' kill em' to make em' kind, eh?:-)And we all know what happens when "the other side" drinks from the same trough of reasoning, don't we?As for soldiers being the linchpin of everything we have at our "disposal" today? A part of? Yes. The epicenter? No.As well, take a look around and ask yourself if maybe there are a few "things" we would
be better off without and if the world might be a better place if we hadn't been afforded much of what we don't need at the expense of so canon fodder.Todd Swearingenregina abbott wrote:> Hello Mike > ,Todd > This is " E ED" in Montana. Do you realize that most anywhere you > sit down to sip your whatever and make degrading statements, > in HARMONY I'M SURE, about American citizens. It will be in realitive > saftey because of American soldiers ! that died for you to be able to do > so. It would be less confusing if my posts were > posted. Sorry Todd I sent yours twice but Keith will probably catch > it. You all just have a great evening and remember > it is due to some American soldier that you are able > to. Peace ( ONLY WON IN BATTLE) >[snip]

Re: [Biofuel] Let me choose

2006-03-22 Thread Kenji James Fuse

The hockey metaphor is a good one. If acumen at hockey is equated with
'running the whole show', then Canada is getting rotten tomatos thrown at
her, judging by our "Home on Native Land's" abyssmal performance at
the Torino Winter Olympics ('the true NOR strong NOR free').

If Canada ran the whole show, not much would be different than the US
running the whole show, except Harper Bush would say please, thank you and
pardon me a whole lot more. And the propaganda would be much more subtle
(standard Canadian state propaganda: "Canada may be in a mess right now,
but aren't you glad you're NOT AMERICAN?").

Kenji Fuse

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Michael Redler wrote:

> Damn! If hockey decided the fate of nations, Canadians would be running the 
> whole show.
>
>   Of course, Canadians can't make sense of the "white man's burden", no 
> matter how many Molsons you give 'em. So, I wouldn't expect them to do stuff 
> like put Kofe Annan up against the glass and have bench clearing brawls with 
> developing countries who can't afford skates, sticks or proper padding 
> because the IMF repossessed their equipment as part of a loan bailout 
> agreement.
>
>   Mike
>
> JJJN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Imagine if we could get GW to play center :)
>
> Michael Redler wrote:
>
> > Imagine Iraqi leaders starting every session wearing everything but
> > the skates.
> >
> > ...if only the soldiers could be replaced with NHL refs and the worst
> > that ever happened was a few broken bones and some missing teeth.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > */JJJN /* wrote:
> >
> > Iraq policy debates would be the equal to a good Canadian Hockey
> > game :)
> >
> > Michael Redler wrote:
> >
> > > What would happen if US voters watched CSPAN with the same
> > enthusiasm
> > > they watch Major League Baseball, the NBA or NFL?
> > >
> > > Your favorite Senator or Congressperson would make a speech and you
> > > "high-five" your pretzel eating friends on either side. There could
> > > even be a cottage merchandising industry - you know, inflatable
> > > chairs, cheese-head hats for your favorite representative from
> > > Wisconsin, etc.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > [snip]
>

___
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Re: [Biofuel] National Socialism Triumphs in USA

Interesting post BT. I'm just sorry that I don't have a lot of time to respond to the link titled A Layman's Look at The Communist Manifesto. "The first chapter of the Manifesto is a rambling pseudo-history that rails against the bourgeois as the historically re-incarnated oppressors vis-à-vis the continually oppressed proletariat." If only Ford factory workers knew how good they had it in the early 20th century. If only people understood that employers who take advantage of employees is extremely rare and nothing to be concerned about, we would have saved a lot of effort with that whole union thing.
Here's another: "The communists realized that by organizing the proletariat politically, they could just vote themselves more power." If Mr. Keller wants to comment on the Manifesto, he should get a grip on what's being said (irrespective of whether or not he subscribes to it). Anyone who has read and understood the document also knows that the party and the people are one and the same. This comment makes him look like a fool. I doubt I'm the only one has something to say about it. Mike BT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:http://www.bigeye.com/losingit.htm Below is a brief excerpt from Mr. Gore Vidal's recent book, Inventing a Nation Yale University Press 2003, p30-31, referring to comments made to America's 1787 Constitutional Convention by the nation's great universal man, Benjamin Franklin: "At eighty-one Franklin was too feeble to address the convention on its handiwork, and so a friend read for him the following words: 'I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but which may be a Blessing to the People if well administered; and I believe further that this is likely to be well
administered for a Course of Years and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so currupted as to need a Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.' Now, two centuries and sixteen years later, Franklin's blunt dark prophecy has come true: popular corruption has indeed given birth to that Despotic Government which he foresaw as inevitable at our birth..."National Socialism Triumphs in USARise of the Fourth Reich "Watch the pincer movement. If you're sick of one version, we push you into the other. We get you coming and going. We've closed the doors. We've fixed the coin. Headscollectivism, and tailscollectivism. Fight the doctrine which slaughters the individual with a doctrine which slaughters the individual. Give up your soul to a councilor give it up to a leader. But give it up, give it up, give it up. ... Offer poison as food and poison as antidote. Go fancy on the trimmings, but hang on to the main objective. Give the fools a choice, let them have their funbut don't forget the only purpose you have to accomplish. Kill the individual. Kill man's soul. The rest will follow automatically." Ellsworth Toohey in The Fountainhead, by Ayn Rand. 'It Can't Happen Here' by Sinclair Lewis, 1934 (online edition) Big Brother is Watching and Listening to YouAmerica or Germany in the 1930's?12 Warning Signs of FascismA Layman's Look at The Communist Manifesto.It wasn't a very happy holidayA Fascist America - How close are we?Wake up and smell the
fascismGott mit uns: On Bush and Hitlers rhetoricThe Emergence of the Fascist American Theocratic StateThe U.S. Patriot Act and Hitler's Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act)Congressman Ron Paul's speechesYour papers, please...Brownshirts Dressed in Blue?Echos of Nazi Propaganda & PoliciesThe Nazi Mind-Set in AmericaCamps for Citizens: Ashcroft's Hellish VisionGoebbels Rallies the PeopleThe 9/11 Reichstag FireThe CIA's Worst-Kept SecretThe Nazi Hydra in AmericaThe Overthrow of the American RepublicThe Secret Service now our own home-grown "SS"A little American History lesson___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___
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Re: [Biofuel] Let me choose