RE: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Sure, I'd trade away 90% of those Suspended too, the same way I'd trade away 2 or 3 of my Ultima 4... if anybody wanted them! :) Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] All your base are belong to us Hugh Falk hughfalk@mindsPara: [EMAIL PROTECTED] pring.comA/C: Ref: 02-07-2001cc: 17:07 Assunto: RE: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors Solicita-se resposta a swcollect Absolutely I would buy them all! However, I would likely use 90% of them as trade material to get other games I wanted. But that would be the only reason I buy something I already own...because I can get something else I want...eventually. Hugh -Original Message- From: Pedro Quaresma [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors Hugh Falk wrote, Well, there is one other valid reason. Let's say that only 100,000 Ultima IV's where ever produced (for the sake of a round number). And let's say that half of those have been thrown away, lost or otherwise damaged beyond recognition. That means that if you own 5 of them, then you own .0001% of all the Ultima IV's left in the world!!! If someone tried to sell you 20 Suspended with the masks, for $1 a piece, wouldn't you buy them all? =) Pedro is trying to corner the market! :-) Nah, it's the other way around: the market is trying to corner me into buying more! ;) As for a name, I like OCCIDENTAL -- Obsessive Compulsive Collectors In Denial ENTAL (You can figure out what the other letter stand for). E huh h... I'll stick to habbyt I think. Hugh Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] All your base are belong to us http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Pedro Quaresma wrote: Not the point -- if it's rare, *nobody* has copies. Which is why I try to collect them -- to make copies before the software is lost forever. It's not the Starcross floppies that make the game rare, right? :) No, but it *is* the floppies that make Zinderneuf or Fractalus or CCnChomp rare. I have Zinderneuf; I have strong info that CCnChomp exists; Fractalus is an unconfirmed rumor. Honestly, the boxes mean jack squat to me right now about those PC titles ;-) But the game is infinitely more interesting to *play* than it is to look at the manual...? That is the entire point the manual was created for, right? No? :) If it were, Origin could have sold their games with regular paper maps and stuff. No trinkets or special editions. Yes, but you still need the software. But the software I can get anywhere, even download it from the net, on extreme situations Not for stuff that isn't on the 'net! If someone doesn't make a copy of the software, then how do you expect to download it? Trinkets are way cool, I agree, but the software is the entire point they were created in the first place. Yes, but sometimes the software doesn't matter! I knew Ultima Ascension was crap, but I still bought the Dragon Edition for all the goodies Again, special case -- the Dragon edition was specifically assembled and marketed as a collector's edition. Most software (sadly) isn't this way. Otherwise they could've just sold books with a little pouch of stuff attached to each book. Would we be collecting those if it were the case? (hint: no ;-) If suddenly Origin started selling old, mint, Ultima 4 manuals (spares), they would sell like strawberry muffins! :) ..and the overall value of Ultima 4 manuals would diminish ;-) But of course that won't happen, since Origin is finally dead, gone, and buried. :-( What continually confuses me is that there are at least 50 times the number of copies of Ultimas, Infocoms, etc. than there are of titles like Cyborg for the PC. Cyborg PC is definitely an extremely rare item. So why isn't it extremely sought after, or valued highly? Or ICON: Quest for the Ring... there were only 1000 made. Why isn't that at the top of everyone's list? -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Jim Leonard wrote: Pedro Quaresma wrote: Not the point -- if it's rare, *nobody* has copies. Which is why I try to collect them -- to make copies before the software is lost forever. It's not the Starcross floppies that make the game rare, right? :) No, but it *is* the floppies that make Zinderneuf or Fractalus or CCnChomp rare. I have Zinderneuf; I have strong info that CCnChomp exists; Fractalus is an unconfirmed rumor. Honestly, the boxes mean jack squat to me right now about those PC titles ;-) That's different. You probably have that specific game for other platform(s), right? But the game is infinitely more interesting to *play* than it is to look at the manual...? That is the entire point the manual was created for, right? No? :) If it were, Origin could have sold their games with regular paper maps and stuff. No trinkets or special editions. Yes, but you still need the software. But the software I can get anywhere, even download it from the net, on extreme situations Not for stuff that isn't on the 'net! If someone doesn't make a copy of the software, then how do you expect to download it? Only extremely exceptional games aren't downloadable from the net. On those games, of course, having a floppy is extremely important Trinkets are way cool, I agree, but the software is the entire point they were created in the first place. Yes, but sometimes the software doesn't matter! I knew Ultima Ascension was crap, but I still bought the Dragon Edition for all the goodies Again, special case -- the Dragon edition was specifically assembled and marketed as a collector's edition. Most software (sadly) isn't this way. Ultima 4/5/6 without trinkets are worth half... Starcross/Suspended without the pink frisbee (I just love calling the saucer that!) and the mask aren't worth one tenth, Ultima CPC without the cover art is worth 1/10th too... Otherwise they could've just sold books with a little pouch of stuff attached to each book. Would we be collecting those if it were the case? (hint: no ;-) If suddenly Origin started selling old, mint, Ultima 4 manuals (spares), they would sell like strawberry muffins! :) ..and the overall value of Ultima 4 manuals would diminish ;-) Nah, Origin are (were :| ) experts in reselling stuff as Special Editions! ;) But of course that won't happen, since Origin is finally dead, gone, and buried. :-( Not Origin, but Origin-as-we-know-it. :( I hope RG eventually makes another RPG that dignifies his past. What continually confuses me is that there are at least 50 times the number of copies of Ultimas, Infocoms, etc. than there are of titles like Cyborg for the PC. Cyborg PC is definitely an extremely rare item. So why isn't it extremely sought after, or valued highly? Or ICON: Quest for the Ring... there were only 1000 made. Why isn't that at the top of everyone's list? Want me to be honest? I never even heard of either. Maybe it's because Meretzky and Garriott are more famous than the creators of both? I'm sure neither is a RPG, or I would have known about them and the creators. But that's an interesting topic, indeed. Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] All your base are belong to us http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
About Murder on the Zinderneuf...I have the DOS version, and I'm in the Northern Hemisphere! :-) I had no idea it was valuable at all. I don't remember where/when I got mine, but the person would have been lucky to get $5 for it. I don't see how the DOS version would have been especially rare. EA was notorious for mass producing games. The DOS version didn't come out until 1984 -- the original (Atari 800 version, 1983) has the distinction of being the first game to sign a contract with EA (it is also historically significant, of course, because it was written by Free Fall Associates -- also of Archon fame -- Jim Freeman's (founder of Epyx) company). So in my opinion, the Atari 800 version is far move valuable from a historic standpoint. I didn't know the DOS version was especially rare, but I'll keep an eye out from now on! There is another EA Flat for DOS only called Radio Baseball. I haven't seen many of these around, so maybe the DOS versions of EA games are more rare...maybe they didn't sell well. By the way, to blow my own horn, if I have one area of expertise it would be EA flat box games. I have one of the few complete collections of EA flats that I know about (some of you probably have complete as well). I don't have every platform, but I do have every title. Anyone who wants to know more on the topic should visit my EA Flats page: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/eaflats.htm Or my EA History page: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/ea.htm Or my Epyx History (Free Fall Associates) page: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/epyx.htm Best regards, Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 9:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors C.E. Forman wrote: So I'm actually not surprised that anyone who collects anything has a slight bit of a neurological disorder. It would explain a lot of odd, quirkish behavior. And I myself am mildly obsessive-compulsive in other areas of my life besides collecting. I think anyone who collects anything fits this criteria. Something for a thesis study, no doubt. I purchase 2 of everything: 1 to appreciate, and the other to crack the shrinkwrap on. I'm this way with my Infocoms (you just have to be able to get at the props), but I've got to know: If you get a shrinked copy BEFORE you get an opened copy, do you personally (1) break the wrap first and risk not being able to appreciate another wrapped copy for a long long time, or (2) hang onto the wrapped copy until you find another wrapped copy or one that's already been opened, and take the chance that the disk media will go bad while you're waiting? Jim, from what you write after this statement it sounds like you're definitely in the first category... How about everyone else? I'm definitely in the first category. I crack the wrap. And you'll just love this one: Sometimes I buy a third so that I can cut up the manual. Yes, I cut all the pages out of the manual. This is so I can get the best possible scan of the manual pages for creating an archival quality PDF of them (the stuff on Underdogs is mostly crap). (!!!) Yes, I break original shrinkwrap so that I can release the game to the public domain if nobody else has. Why do you think the hardcore oldwarez community is so eager to get their hands on Chris' copy of Cyborg? Because it may very well be the last copy that exists, and we want to copy the disk before it goes bad and fades away. This raises an interesting dilemma, and the main reason I continually refuse to open it: Suppose I did break the wrap, I went to copy the disk... and it's already bad? The retrogamers are upset because they won't be able to play it after all. I'm out my shrinkwrapped package with absolutely nothing to show for it. But there's no way to tell that until I do crack it. Classic Schroedinger's Cat. I don't gamble with my collection. It's definitely a classic schroedinger's cat. There's just no way to know. And so we wait for another copy to turn up. (I've dealt with my other reasons in Shoppe columns enough times that I won't bore you reciting them again here.) What, you have other reasons? :-) I think the above is the best reason. I totally support you, BTW -- it just sucks for both of us. Somewhere, someday, another copy will turn up. We hope. Sadly for us -- and detailed in an old conversation that you can look at in the archives -- Chris and many other collectors place much less value on the diskette than the entire package. I've thought about this one for a long time, and yes, the software is definitely worth less to me than the package. Why? Because the package is PHYSICAL. Only a certain number of game packages were ever produced. Once all the others have been lost or thrown out, that's it. Mine is the only one left, and there will never be any more. But software does not exist in any
RE: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Jim, I've sent Jon Freeman a note asking if a DOS version of CCC exists. He made the game and has an excellent memory, so I should be able to let you know soon. Why isn't Quest for the Ring at the top of my list? You should read my thoughts about what makes a game valuable. It can be found at: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/collectibles.htm But I'll paste it here as well: A collectible computer game is a game that is more valuable than the average game that can be purchased in the store today. GOTCHA does not presume to determine prices for classic games; instead value is used here as a measurement of desirability for classic gaming enthusiasts. Game value will constantly fluctuate based upon the whims of collectors; however, a classic game generally will have greater value if it meets one of these criteria: 1)It is a great game. A great game is like a great work of art. Veteran gamers still remember and desire these games. Future generations will learn about them as classics. 2)It is a rare game. More people start collecting computer games every day. As more people become involved, less classic games will be available for the others. Therefore the games that were produced in lower quantities or with low survival rates are often highly sought after. Just like any business, there is a law of supply and demand that can raise a game's value. Keep in mind that not all rare games are valuable. If a game was not a great game (see #1) it may have been rare for a good reason...nobody wanted it. If that is the case, it still may be unwanted. 3)It is a particularly old game. In computer gaming terms, anything from 1983 or earlier fits this category. Old games are generally desirable because they were often produced in lower quantities and have lower survival rates (see #2). While many of them may not be great (see #1) by today's standards, they are often groundbreaking and therefore deserve recognition. Much like Edison's original films, they have historical value if not artistic value. Old games are not necessarily rare. For example, 1979's Star Raiders is still readily available, mostly because it was a great game and very popular. It also came in cartridge format and durable packaging, which gives it a very good survival rate. 4)It is in good condition. A game's condition probably has the most profound effect on its value. See GOTCHA's Conditions page for the various grades. Obviously, the better the condition, the more valuable the game. However, condition alone can't make a game collectible. Condition is a modifier of value on an already collectible game. Of course, the most valuable games meet all four criteria above. -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 5:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors Pedro Quaresma wrote: Not the point -- if it's rare, *nobody* has copies. Which is why I try to collect them -- to make copies before the software is lost forever. It's not the Starcross floppies that make the game rare, right? :) No, but it *is* the floppies that make Zinderneuf or Fractalus or CCnChomp rare. I have Zinderneuf; I have strong info that CCnChomp exists; Fractalus is an unconfirmed rumor. Honestly, the boxes mean jack squat to me right now about those PC titles ;-) But the game is infinitely more interesting to *play* than it is to look at the manual...? That is the entire point the manual was created for, right? No? :) If it were, Origin could have sold their games with regular paper maps and stuff. No trinkets or special editions. Yes, but you still need the software. But the software I can get anywhere, even download it from the net, on extreme situations Not for stuff that isn't on the 'net! If someone doesn't make a copy of the software, then how do you expect to download it? Trinkets are way cool, I agree, but the software is the entire point they were created in the first place. Yes, but sometimes the software doesn't matter! I knew Ultima Ascension was crap, but I still bought the Dragon Edition for all the goodies Again, special case -- the Dragon edition was specifically assembled and marketed as a collector's edition. Most software (sadly) isn't this way. Otherwise they could've just sold books with a little pouch of stuff attached to each book. Would we be collecting those if it were the case? (hint: no ;-) If suddenly Origin started selling old, mint, Ultima 4 manuals (spares), they would sell like strawberry muffins! :) .and the overall value of Ultima 4 manuals would diminish ;-) But of course that won't happen, since Origin is finally dead, gone, and buried. :-( What continually confuses me is that there are at least 50 times the number of copies of Ultimas, Infocoms, etc. than there are of titles like Cyborg for the PC. Cyborg PC is definitely an extremely rare item. So why
Re: [SWCollect] Data or Packaging...which is more valuable?
Hugh Falk boldly stated: So there are two types of people here: Collectors (represented by Pedro) and Data Preservationists (represented by Jim). Both are noble causes that can keep you busy for a long time. I don't know about DOS games, but just about every Apple game is already available on the Internet. So the need for data preservation will soon disappear. Question: Are most of the Apple games available on the 'net the originals, or the cracked versions? In my limited experience, they're the cracked ones. I'd say (with my Data Preservationist hat on), that until they're all archived in their original forms, the need is still there. However, the Players (people who just want to be able to play the games, which I believe have been the dominant force behind many preservation efforts), don't really care. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Hugh Falk wrote: About Murder on the Zinderneuf...I have the DOS version, and I'm in the Northern Hemisphere! :-) I had no idea it was valuable at all. I don't That's because the DOS version isn't DOS -- it's a booter. You must have a cracked copy. Unless, of course, my sources are wrong. I will find out and report back. (Shouts from the swcollect community: No! Don't do it! Don't crack the wrap!) ;-) remember where/when I got mine, but the person would have been lucky to get $5 for it. I don't see how the DOS version would have been especially rare. PC games are generally pretty rare because people didn't really use the PC to play games until about 1985, when the industry started to move and Apple/C64/Atari stayed in the same place. EA was notorious for mass producing games. The DOS version didn't come out until 1984 -- the original (Atari 800 version, 1983) has the distinction of being the first game to sign a contract with EA (it is also historically significant, of course, because it was written by Free Fall Associates -- also of Archon fame -- Jim Freeman's (founder of Epyx) company). So in my opinion, the Atari 800 version is far move valuable from a historic standpoint. I didn't know the DOS version was especially rare, but I'll keep an eye out from now on! There is another EA Flat for DOS only called Radio Baseball. I haven't seen many of these around, so maybe the DOS versions of EA games are more rare...maybe they didn't sell well. Exactly. They didn't sell well. And the PC versions may or may not have significant improvments (or detriments) in gameplay and features. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Lee K. Seitz wrote: Jim Leonard boldly stated: That's not quite what I meant, but you pose an interesting point: Is a software package without diskettes collectable at all? I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I can't place any value at all in a software package that is missing the actual software. No matter how excellent the package and materials are in, it's worthless for me without the actual product, which is sort of the point. Even if the disks are bad, they have to be there (although bad disks are a severe disappointment). Of course it's collectible! You never know when you'll find the disks loose somewhere. Surely you can't tell me you'd pass over a pink frisbee or Suspended mask package just because the disks were missing. Obviously a package with disks is worth more than one without and a one with working disks should be worth more than one with non-working disks. The Suspended frisbee is a special case -- of course I'd grab it because everyone else is trying to. But I guarantee you I would probably use it as barter or trade material, because EVERYONE has Suspended. I guess it all goes to say that worth and/or value is in the eye of the beholder. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Lee K. Seitz wrote: them in to get one.) Many people have it at the top of their wanted list, but (even discounting one-of-a-kind prototypes) there are certainly other games that are rarer. What's rarer than a one-of-a-kind prototype? I thought prototypes were the Holy Grail of cart collecting... -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Cracked? What do you mean? I have the original box and disk that says on the EA label: IBM XT, PC, PCjr, COMPAQ Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors Hugh Falk wrote: About Murder on the Zinderneuf...I have the DOS version, and I'm in the Northern Hemisphere! :-) I had no idea it was valuable at all. I don't That's because the DOS version isn't DOS -- it's a booter. You must have a cracked copy. Unless, of course, my sources are wrong. I will find out and report back. (Shouts from the swcollect community: No! Don't do it! Don't crack the wrap!) ;-) remember where/when I got mine, but the person would have been lucky to get $5 for it. I don't see how the DOS version would have been especially rare. PC games are generally pretty rare because people didn't really use the PC to play games until about 1985, when the industry started to move and Apple/C64/Atari stayed in the same place. EA was notorious for mass producing games. The DOS version didn't come out until 1984 -- the original (Atari 800 version, 1983) has the distinction of being the first game to sign a contract with EA (it is also historically significant, of course, because it was written by Free Fall Associates -- also of Archon fame -- Jim Freeman's (founder of Epyx) company). So in my opinion, the Atari 800 version is far move valuable from a historic standpoint. I didn't know the DOS version was especially rare, but I'll keep an eye out from now on! There is another EA Flat for DOS only called Radio Baseball. I haven't seen many of these around, so maybe the DOS versions of EA games are more rare...maybe they didn't sell well. Exactly. They didn't sell well. And the PC versions may or may not have significant improvments (or detriments) in gameplay and features. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Data or Packaging...which is more valuable?
Lee K. Seitz wrote: Hugh Falk boldly stated: So there are two types of people here: Collectors (represented by Pedro) and Data Preservationists (represented by Jim). Both are noble causes that can keep you busy for a long time. I don't know about DOS games, but just about every Apple game is already available on the Internet. So the need for data preservation will soon disappear. Question: Are most of the Apple games available on the 'net the originals, or the cracked versions? In my limited experience, they're They are most certainly the cracked ones. All pirates are unwilling data historians ;-) In fact, I don't think I've ever come across something on Asimov that wasn't cracked. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Data or Packaging...which is more valuable?
Hugh Falk wrote: A large majority of them are uncracked. Most of the C-64 (and later) stuff I've seen is cracked...but not Apple. Now, or earlier? I went bonkers when I discovered Asimov, and the 150 or so images I tested out were at least 90-95% cracked. Maybe I got lucky... or maybe they've been replaceing the images with clean ones (still cracked, but without the messages). If you guys are interested in Demos or cracked games at all, you'll enjoy the DemoDVD project -- I plan to show some footage of early early cracktros, which led to the birth of the demoscene. Anyway, off-topic... -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Hugh Falk wrote: Cracked? What do you mean? I have the original box and disk that says on the EA label: IBM XT, PC, PCjr, COMPAQ PC does not equal DOS. It is a bootable disk, like Pinball Construction Set, Music Construction Set, Dr J. and Larry Bird go One on One, and other conversions. You stick the disk in and turn on the PC, and it boots directly using custom code. The fact that it is NOT a DOS executable makes it valuable because unless it is cracked it is impossible to play on a modern machine without jumping though hoops. Check http://www.oldskool.org/pc/flopper/ for some more info. Cracking bootable games is a black art -- and converting them to .EXE files is even blacker. There's a link to Retrograde Station off of the Flopper page mentioned above that lists a large number of bootables that I've helped supply and crack, if you're interested. Most were extremely rare until we supplied them to the world. You know, noble cause and all that. :-) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Data or Packaging...which is more valuable?
The DVD project sounds awesome...please let me know more! Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 3:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Data or Packaging...which is more valuable? Hugh Falk wrote: A large majority of them are uncracked. Most of the C-64 (and later) stuff I've seen is cracked...but not Apple. Now, or earlier? I went bonkers when I discovered Asimov, and the 150 or so images I tested out were at least 90-95% cracked. Maybe I got lucky... or maybe they've been replaceing the images with clean ones (still cracked, but without the messages). If you guys are interested in Demos or cracked games at all, you'll enjoy the DemoDVD project -- I plan to show some footage of early early cracktros, which led to the birth of the demoscene. Anyway, off-topic... -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Jim Leonard boldly stated: Lee K. Seitz wrote: them in to get one.) Many people have it at the top of their wanted list, but (even discounting one-of-a-kind prototypes) there are certainly other games that are rarer. What's rarer than a one-of-a-kind prototype? I thought prototypes were the Holy Grail of cart collecting... Let me restate what I said in a way that's perhaps vaguely more intelligible: Many people have it (Chase the Chuck Wagon) at the top of their wanted list, but there are certainly other games that are rarer than CtCW. And I'm not talking about one-of-a-kind prototypes. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Data or Packaging...which is more valuable?
Jim Leonard boldly stated: ..unless those archives go away. I have mirrored as much as Asimov as I can, but it won't be around forever... Now that's a scary thought. Life without Asimov, etc. A few years ago, I took advantage of the fast connection and a new CD-ROM burner at work to make a copy of Asimov. I'll have to do it again when I get broadband at home. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: | Visit the Classic Video Games Nexus Vintage Pac-M*n necktie| for all your classic link news needs! |http://start.at/cvgnexus -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Okay, well the word has come back from Jon, and the answer is...inconclusive. He said there wasn't one when he left Epyx to form Free Fall Associates in 81 (which makes sense, of course). However, there could have been one made later on. I do know that there was a C-64 version made in 83 so it's possible that a DOS version was also made. Hugh -Original Message- From: Hugh Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 10:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors Jim, I've sent Jon Freeman a note asking if a DOS version of CCC exists. He made the game and has an excellent memory, so I should be able to let you know soon. Why isn't Quest for the Ring at the top of my list? You should read my thoughts about what makes a game valuable. It can be found at: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/collectibles.htm But I'll paste it here as well: A collectible computer game is a game that is more valuable than the average game that can be purchased in the store today. GOTCHA does not presume to determine prices for classic games; instead value is used here as a measurement of desirability for classic gaming enthusiasts. Game value will constantly fluctuate based upon the whims of collectors; however, a classic game generally will have greater value if it meets one of these criteria: 1)It is a great game. A great game is like a great work of art. Veteran gamers still remember and desire these games. Future generations will learn about them as classics. 2)It is a rare game. More people start collecting computer games every day. As more people become involved, less classic games will be available for the others. Therefore the games that were produced in lower quantities or with low survival rates are often highly sought after. Just like any business, there is a law of supply and demand that can raise a game's value. Keep in mind that not all rare games are valuable. If a game was not a great game (see #1) it may have been rare for a good reason...nobody wanted it. If that is the case, it still may be unwanted. 3)It is a particularly old game. In computer gaming terms, anything from 1983 or earlier fits this category. Old games are generally desirable because they were often produced in lower quantities and have lower survival rates (see #2). While many of them may not be great (see #1) by today's standards, they are often groundbreaking and therefore deserve recognition. Much like Edison's original films, they have historical value if not artistic value. Old games are not necessarily rare. For example, 1979's Star Raiders is still readily available, mostly because it was a great game and very popular. It also came in cartridge format and durable packaging, which gives it a very good survival rate. 4)It is in good condition. A game's condition probably has the most profound effect on its value. See GOTCHA's Conditions page for the various grades. Obviously, the better the condition, the more valuable the game. However, condition alone can't make a game collectible. Condition is a modifier of value on an already collectible game. Of course, the most valuable games meet all four criteria above. -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 5:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors Pedro Quaresma wrote: Not the point -- if it's rare, *nobody* has copies. Which is why I try to collect them -- to make copies before the software is lost forever. It's not the Starcross floppies that make the game rare, right? :) No, but it *is* the floppies that make Zinderneuf or Fractalus or CCnChomp rare. I have Zinderneuf; I have strong info that CCnChomp exists; Fractalus is an unconfirmed rumor. Honestly, the boxes mean jack squat to me right now about those PC titles ;-) But the game is infinitely more interesting to *play* than it is to look at the manual...? That is the entire point the manual was created for, right? No? :) If it were, Origin could have sold their games with regular paper maps and stuff. No trinkets or special editions. Yes, but you still need the software. But the software I can get anywhere, even download it from the net, on extreme situations Not for stuff that isn't on the 'net! If someone doesn't make a copy of the software, then how do you expect to download it? Trinkets are way cool, I agree, but the software is the entire point they were created in the first place. Yes, but sometimes the software doesn't matter! I knew Ultima Ascension was crap, but I still bought the Dragon Edition for all the goodies Again, special case -- the Dragon edition was specifically assembled and marketed as a collector's edition. Most software (sadly) isn't this way. Otherwise they could've just sold books with a little pouch of stuff attached to each book. Would we be collecting
Re: [SWCollect] trademark for collectors
Hugh Falk wrote: Okay, well the word has come back from Jon, and the answer is...inconclusive. He said there wasn't one when he left Epyx to form Free Fall Associates in 81 (which makes sense, of course). However, there could have been one made later on. That is exactly the answer I got from the programmer of the original Rescue on Fractalus. And when I asked Will Harvey about the PC version of Music Construction Set, he said There's a PC version? This is why the PC versions of these programs are even more rare than the rare games they were ported from. I do know that there was a C-64 version made in 83 so it's possible that a DOS version was also made. You mean PC. PC != DOS. For hard-core PC collectors, this is significant. For all you other guys, never mind ;-) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
