Re: Re: t-and-f: MJ's splits in his 43.18 WR (was Negative splits in 440)
If you subtract out the start (at least 0.50 to 0.75, maybe as much as 1.20 based on the 50m splits), then the second half arguably *was* run faster. Are you sure you didn't mean to say something else? No matter how you slice it, after the first 50m each subsequent 50m split is slower than the previous one. 50m 100m 200m 6.14 4.96 (11.10) 11.10 5.00 (16.10) 5.12 (21.22) 10.12 21.22 5.20 (26.42) 5.24 (31.66) 10.44 5.52 (37.18) 6.00 (43.18) 11.52 21.96 Subject: Re: t-and-f: MJ's splits in his 43.18 WR (was Negative splits in 440) If you subtract out the start (at least 0.50 to 0.75, maybe as much as 1.20 based on the 50m splits), then the second half arguably *was* run faster. In any sprint event, the start becomes a major factor when determining average speed. Not nearly as significant in events not run out of blocks.
RE: t-and-f: multiple bs
You're a little troll Dan. Grow up. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: multiple bs Lovely. Long after the topic quitely slipped into oblivion, an anonymous poster chastising me for speaking of LSU's well known reputation, when in fact the point of my post run4t5 is objecting to was to not throw stones when your house is made of at least as much glass... I wasn't the one throwing stones (must be a case of Malmo's interpretive dimentia), rather defending those having stones thrown at them by media hounds. It is easy to point and shoot. Said by the anonymous poster. Uh-huh. Dan --- run4t5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And to think I thought all these postings were in regard to the bs Dan wrote in his ignorance to the chide of Cheryl Taplin and LSU with his thoughtless and narrow mindeness views of a group of hard working and devoted group of athletes and coaches who rose to the top. It is easy to point and shoot. = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
t-and-f: MODERATORS OR LIST OWNERS!!!!
EITHER FIX IT OR GET ME OFF THIS FREAKIN LIST malmo From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2004/03/10 Wed PM 01:00:54 CST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
t-and-f: MODERATORS OR LIST OWNERS!!!!
EITHER FIX IT OR GET ME OFF THIS FREAKIN LIST malmo From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2004/03/10 Wed PM 01:00:54 CST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
Re: t-and-f: Re: multiple postings
Thanks error handler. I was about to get in touch with the inner postal worker in me. Close call, whew! malmo From: Charles F. Wandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2004/03/10 Wed PM 01:54:57 CST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Re: multiple postings Folks, We are in the process of working on the problem Thanks for your patients =) -charlie, error handler
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries?
I guess it's safe to say that Comedy Central thing goes right over your head? Ah say, ah say, ah made a funny an your not laughing, son! - Foghorn Leghorn malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:31 PM To: malmo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? NCAA by-law 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution's regular financial aid authority shall notify the student athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when the institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletic ability is ... not renewed. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university's athletic department or its faculty athletics committee. Floyd Highfill Quoting malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Now WHAT was that thing about the appeals process? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Scholarships and Injuries? Most Universities have an appeals process which athletes can invoke when scholarships are withdrawn unilaterally. I believe the NCAA requires the schools to have such a process and it is to be conducted by personnel not connected with the athletic department. Anyone else? Floyd Highfill New Mexico State University Quoting Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've just heard of an instance of a U.S. collegiate vaulter whose athletics scholarship has been withdrawn because injuries sustained in practice and competition prevent her from vaulting. Obviously, this is a pretty sleazy move on the part of her coach and university, but I'm wondering how usual it is for this to happen. Does anyone know of other examples? Cheers? I think not. :-(
Re: t-and-f: gender equity
Lovely news - just freakin lovely. malmo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2004/02/02 Mon AM 11:27:03 CST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: gender equity Along the lines of Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it, New Haven College (New Haven,CT) has announced that they are dropping football (Div II) effective fall 2004. And to maintain gender equity, they are also dropping women's golf, women's indoor track and women's outdoor track. In a real twist, they are keeping men's indoor and outdoor track. Have a nice day. Floyd Highfill
RE: t-and-f: Distance and Sprint Dominance
Wrong Dan, you have to have the talent for sprinting to make it to the top, and the talent for distance running to make it to the top. No amount of work will compensate for lack of either. Sprinters improve just as much to training for sprinting as distance runners do to training for distance running. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Distance and Sprint Dominance --- P.F.Talbot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also seems to suggest that the old adage that sprinters are born while distance runners are made is wrong. Distance runners require few facilities and not even much coaching (I hate to say that, but it's probably true. Self coached distance athletes have reached the top of the sport while I've never heard of a self-coached sprinter--anyone?) while sprinters require extensive training facilities and constant coaching to get to the top. I don't particuarly agree with the ol' adage, but I don't think that's exactly what it is saying. The gist of the argument is that distance runners can overcome a lack of talent through hard work, whereas sprinters either have it or they don't. That doesn't mean a sprinter with immense talent will make automatically it, just that they have to have the talent to have a chance. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
RE: t-and-f: Distance and Sprint Dominance
Easy Steve, Dan's a novice fan. malmo Brilliantly naive. My guess is that you've never seen a sprinter train. A couple of strides, a high knee or two and some stretching right? That doesn't mean a sprinter with immense talent will make automatically it, just that they have to have the talent to have a chance. and distance runners don't? Steve S.
RE: t-and-f: Distance and Sprint Dominance
Dan, just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean we're still not out to get you. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 11:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Distance and Sprint Dominance Well, the t-and-f list has officially gone to shit. Apparently no one can read anymore, let alone conduct themselves politely. I don't particuarly agree with the ol' adage, but I don't think that's exactly what it is saying. The gist of the argument is... Very first thing I said. If it's unclear to anyone that I was clarifying the argument, not stating my own position, then I suggest you enroll in remedial preschool classes. --- edndana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which is a load of crap. --- Steve Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brilliantly naive. My guess is that you've never seen a sprinter train. A couple of strides, a high knee or two and some stretching right? --- malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Easy Steve, Dan's a novice fan. Morons (with the possible exception of Ed, who I can't tell if he was disagreeing with me or not). I expect it from Malmo, but anyone else sinking to that level of stupidity should be ashamed of themselves. Steve, try thinking before opening your mouth. I coached sprinters for 4 years, which should answer your idiotic question. And no, Malmo, you can't just delete threads here that disagree with you like on letsrun.com. Your attitude is on record for everyone to see. G'day. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
RE: t-and-f: Happy Thanksgiving
Only one problem - turkey has no more tryptophan than any other protein (less than chicken in fact). And to induce sleepiness from tryptophan (actually it wouldn't be the tryptophan, tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin which helps sound sleep, doesn't cause sleep) you'd have to eat a whole turkey on an empty stomach. Your sleepiness is caused by the ALKALINE TIDE--from over-eating, especially carbohydrates, and the body's response by releasing bicarbonate into the bloodstream causing the blood pH to rise slightly. Have a happy and safe Thanksgiving MJR! malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael J. Roth Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Happy Thanksgiving Wishing everyone out there a Happy Thanksgiving. May you be overwhelmed by mass quantities of Tryptophan Egg Nog. MJR
RE: t-and-f: Anti-doping chairman: Baseball rules a 'joke'
Major League Baseball, which keeps accurate statistics on every imaginable statistical minutiae, has determined that 5-7 percent of the MLB players tested positive for steroid use? Bud Selig has now re-released MLB player stats from 2003: National LeagueAmerican league BattingAlbert Pujols(STL).292-.371Bill Mueller#(BOS) .257-.330 Home runs Jim Thome(PHI) 42-49 Alex Rodriguez(TEX) 41-48 RBIPreston Wilson(COL) 99-150 Carlos Delgado*(TOR) 111-160 ERAJason SchmidtSFG) 2.11-2.38Pedro Martinez (BOS) 2.05-2.28 Wins Russ Ortiz (ATL) 16-22 Roy Halladay (TOR) 18-24 Strikeouts Kerry Wood (CHC) 246-275 Esteban Loaiza (CHW) 199-221 malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of magpie Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 1:19 PM To: tandf listserv Cc: Roger Sayre; steve keith; mark bomba; darrel robinson; Carl Rose; cesar perez Subject: t-and-f: Anti-doping chairman: Baseball rules a 'joke' http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/rockies/article/0,1713,BDC_2451_2430908,0 0.html By Associated Press November 15, 2003 LONDON - Baseball's policy on steroids is a complete joke and an insult to the fight against performance-enhancing drugs, the head of the World Anti-Doping Agency said Friday. WADA chairman Dick Pound criticized the testing system and scale of penalties for steroid use that will start in baseball next March. He wasn't the only one who thought baseball's rules aren't tough enough. A New York-based physician who is a member of WADA, Dr. Gary Wadler, called Thursday's announcement of baseball's test results probably the blackest day in the history of sports. Between 5 and 7 percent of anonymous steroid tests among major leaguers came back positive, triggering a provision in the sport's labor contract that calls for testing with penalties starting next year. A first positive test for steroid use would result in treatment and a second in a 15-day suspension or fine of up to $10,000. The punishment would increase to a 25-day suspension or fine of up to $25,000 for a third positive test, a 50-day suspension or fine of up to $50,000 for a fourth and a one-year suspension or fine of up to $100,000 for a fifth. I think it's an insult to the fight against doping in sport, an insult to the intelligence of the American public and an insult to the game itself, Pound told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. I think it's a complete and utter joke. You can test positive for steroids five times, then they think of booting you out for a year? Give me a break. The first time someone has knowingly cheated and they give you counseling? It's a complete and utter joke. === I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past. Patrick Henry _ Sign up for a 6mb FREE email from http://www.spl.at Join the buzz, chat with us! http://chat.spl.at
RE: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes
As silly as Paul's argument is, I think it is appropriate, considering the IOC's absolutely asinine lead. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Alsdorf Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 2:53 PM women's (as far as athletics goes). Thus the unfairness. Would it be fair if I had 20-foot stilts implanted in my legs because that's what I felt I was naturally meant to have, and then broke the world record in the pole vault by stepping over the bar? No. Would it be fair if I felt that I was naturally 8 years old, and tried to compete in the junior olympics? No. How is this situation any different? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 15, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Headline - Games opened to transsexual athletes On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:42:38 -0800 (GMT-08:00), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you a doctor? Yes, as a matter of fact Wayne IS a doctor! Let the medical experts decide. Open your mind a bit: if the experts say they will be competing on a equal footing, then we should trust they have the best of the Olympic movement in mind which means that everyone should have the opportunity to compete. People have to earn my trust- I don't give it away. And lately the IOC isn't exactly on a hot streak of proving that they have ANYBODY'S best interest in mind except their own wallet and political power. which means that everyone should have the opportunity to compete. Hey that means I can compete next year in Atlanta too, at age 47! After all you don't want politically incorrect age discrimination do you? Or discrimination against the fitness-challenged? No, let EVERYONE compete. Just give everybody world wide the same day off every four years, to go out to the nearest track, and call it an 'everybody participates' Olympics. This is garbage and you know it. Life is full of choices. If Michael Johnson chose to have somebody chop off his Johnson, he could no longer compete as MJ. ..h RT
RE: t-and-f: My third grader's math
I've always slept well at night. malmo -Original Message- From: Matthew Harber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 9:21 AM To: 'malmo'; 'Mike Prizy'; 'Track List' Subject: RE: t-and-f: My third grader's math ~ 360 mg/L Your search is over, I'll bet you sleep better tonight. matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of malmo Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 10:59 PM To: 'Mike Prizy'; 'Track List' Subject: RE: t-and-f: My third grader's math Wow, that's pretty tough for a nine year old. Would require a little research on the internet. I still haven't found one student of exercise physiology who could tell me how many milligrams of lactate is 4.0 millimoles/liter. So much for advanced science. I'll bet your kid could? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Prizy Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 10:21 PM To: Track List Subject: t-and-f: My third grader's math My 9-year-old son asked me to help him with his third-grade math. He is studying decimals. This particular section asked the students to correctly place the decimal in each word problem. Of the 23 possible answers, three were about track and field, one was on auto racing, and no other sports were included. Our sport still has hope in the United States! Part A No. 2 - Linford Christie ran the 100-meter dash in 996 seconds in the 1992 Olympics. No. 3 - In the Same Olympics, Jan Zelezny threw the javelin 294166 feet. No. 4 - Valentina Yegorova ran the marathon in 2 hours, 32 minutes, 41 seconds. She ran a distance of 413 kilometers.
RE: t-and-f: My third grader's math
Wow, that's pretty tough for a nine year old. Would require a little research on the internet. I still haven't found one student of exercise physiology who could tell me how many milligrams of lactate is 4.0 millimoles/liter. So much for advanced science. I'll bet your kid could? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Prizy Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 10:21 PM To: Track List Subject: t-and-f: My third grader's math My 9-year-old son asked me to help him with his third-grade math. He is studying decimals. This particular section asked the students to correctly place the decimal in each word problem. Of the 23 possible answers, three were about track and field, one was on auto racing, and no other sports were included. Our sport still has hope in the United States! Part A No. 2 - Linford Christie ran the 100-meter dash in 996 seconds in the 1992 Olympics. No. 3 - In the Same Olympics, Jan Zelezny threw the javelin 294166 feet. No. 4 - Valentina Yegorova ran the marathon in 2 hours, 32 minutes, 41 seconds. She ran a distance of 413 kilometers.
RE: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us
A more likely scenario: many kids from the inner city who are arrested for weapons charges, EVERY YEAR, owe it all to P Diddy. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Harber Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us Sad as it is, P Dunit and Oprah have brought more attention to our sport than any homegrown american running 2:05 would ever do b/c people relate to 4:14 and not sub 2:10. It's comical and I realize that we're all having fun with it but runners like the solitude of what they do and they complain when they get attention but then turn around and bitch when someone undeserving gets the focus. The old notion that America's best runners are standing on the street corner completely unaware of their talent comes to mind...maybe P diddy inspired some of them and who knows what could happen. Can't you imagine the headline in 10 years, some guy from the inner city runs 2:06 and owes it all to P diddy! matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Duncan Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us Excellent! Seriously, I applaud P. Diddy for doing what he did. The fact that USATF chose him over any number of US collegiate XC men and women is the sad part. But he raised a lot of money plus his time isn't *that* bad for someone who rides around in a limo with bodyguards and gets to go to all the good parties. I guess he'll get a Nike contract next and be in commercials like Spike Lee and Dennis Hopper. Not that he needs the money. bob - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:39 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us Wait a second here...isn't this athlete of the week appointment a little premature? heck, the guy's B sample hasn't even come back from the lab yet. MF -Original Message- From: Jim Gerweck To: Track Field Sent: 11/4/2003 12:42 PM Subject: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us ³P. Diddy² Combs named Athlete of the Week INDIANAPOLIS Sean ³P. Diddy² Combs has been named USA Track Field¹s Athlete of the Week for raising $2 million for charity by finishing the ING New York City Marathon on Sunday. A first-time marathoner, P. Diddy finished with a chip time of 4 hours, 14 minutes, 54 seconds, accomplishing his goal of bettering Oprah Winfrey¹s marathon time of 4:29:00 she set at the 1994 Washington D.C. Marathon. His performance raised $2 million for charitable causes, which was double the amount he had expected to raise. A native of Harlem, P. Diddy trained two months for the race and ran with an injured right knee. Combs plans to split the money between New York City¹s public school system, the Children's Hope Foundation and Daddy's House Social Programs, which are two children¹s advocate groups. The entertainment mogul called his charity effort, ³Diddy Runs the City.² Major donors to Combs¹ cause included New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg, rapper Jay-Z, Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez. We set a bar and we crushed that bar,² said P. Diddy. ³This is just a start. This wasn't a publicity stunt. Combs' efforts generated interest to thousands of kids about long distance running in bringing it to a new light due to his pre-marathon coverage through non-sporting and track field media outlets.
RE: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us
Is he even a USATF member? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us Wait a second here...isn't this athlete of the week appointment a little premature? heck, the guy's B sample hasn't even come back from the lab yet. MF -Original Message- From: Jim Gerweck To: Track Field Sent: 11/4/2003 12:42 PM Subject: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us ³P. Diddy² Combs named Athlete of the Week INDIANAPOLIS Sean ³P. Diddy² Combs has been named USA Track Field¹s Athlete of the Week for raising $2 million for charity by finishing the ING New York City Marathon on Sunday. A first-time marathoner, P. Diddy finished with a chip time of 4 hours, 14 minutes, 54 seconds, accomplishing his goal of bettering Oprah Winfrey¹s marathon time of 4:29:00 she set at the 1994 Washington D.C. Marathon. His performance raised $2 million for charitable causes, which was double the amount he had expected to raise. A native of Harlem, P. Diddy trained two months for the race and ran with an injured right knee. Combs plans to split the money between New York City¹s public school system, the Children's Hope Foundation and Daddy's House Social Programs, which are two children¹s advocate groups. The entertainment mogul called his charity effort, ³Diddy Runs the City.² Major donors to Combs¹ cause included New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg, rapper Jay-Z, Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez. We set a bar and we crushed that bar,² said P. Diddy. ³This is just a start. This wasn't a publicity stunt. Combs' efforts generated interest to thousands of kids about long distance running in bringing it to a new light due to his pre-marathon coverage through non-sporting and track field media outlets.
RE: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us
You mean the marketing execs dropped the handgun, don't you? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:50 PM To: Track Field Subject: Re: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us --- Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The entertainment mogul called his charity effort, Diddy Runs the City. Couldn't he have come up with something more creative, like Do Run Diddy? To follow up on this thought, Do Run Diddy would have tied in nicely to the Nike connection ... Just *Do* It, or in this case, Just Did[dy] It. The marketing execs dropped the ball on this one. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
RE: t-and-f: LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout
What Mike said... malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik Bush Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout Mike, Maybe that's the difference, the marathoner of note to you is a who? to others. Similarly, the marathoners NOT of note to you, are very much of note to themselves. I think its a matter of perspective. cordially, eb -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout Drew: You have completely missed the point and the context.(read the thread please before you huh? me. THis in not about 1500 meters) I DO KNOW exactly how the top runners think, and in this context they are not concerned with marathon trials qualifying times. I cannot think of ONE, not ONE single marathoner of note that had the time 2:22 anywhere in their mindset. When in a marathon you race to run as fast as you can or win, OR BOTH. Mike Platt In a message dated 10/31/2003 11:59:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Huh!? You've got to be kidding. I don't know what level you've competed on, but that's not, at all, the thinking of any top level athletes. Why waste the energy to run faster than you need to to qualify. You need to run 2:20 so you'll try to run 2:10 when the purpose is just to qualify?? So, you're running in the second semifinal heat and know what time is needed to get into the final...you just ignore that and stupidly run 'as fast as I could' Qualifying times are there for a purpose. If your own purpose is just that, to qualify, you'll ideally beat the time by one second. Any faster is just a waste of energy. /Drew
t-and-f: RE: Proof positive....
1) Neither of those posts said what you said. 2) Both Bob Kunnath and Jonas Mureika have repudiated your claims. Richard, a word of advice: reality is both much more rich and much more outrageous than anything tale you could possibly fabricate. Why not stay within the boundaries of reality when you debate? Even to the very end you continue with the drama queen persona. You're not the first Richard who proclaimed, You won't have me to kick around anymore. Get help Richard. malmo -Original Message- From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:44 PM To: malmo Cc: 'TFMail List'; 'Martin J. Dixon' Subject: RE: Proof positive I'm sorry that you're illiterate. But since I don't have to actually listen to your rants and riffs anymore, a la Rush Limbaugh (whom I'm sure you worship), I don't care. I knew that you would come up with some lame excuse of why these posts don't actually say what they say. Sorry that you're in such a state of denial. Maybe you need to join AA as someone else suggested earlier. RMc At 08:25 PM 10/30/2003 -0500, malmo wrote: Are you freakin nuts or what? 1) The B Kunneth post does NOT say anything about banishment without a hearing. FAILED Sorry, but it says if busted, then outta here. That means only one thing--no hearing, act solely on the evidence. No other interpretation possible. BTW, the rest of the exchange that you missed earlier actually revolved in detail around that point. I suggest that you actually research what was said in a thread before you shoot off again. 2) The Jonas Mureika post: You've spliced to posts together, so who can tell who posted what or in what context? I copied the extract DIRECTLY from the mail listserve archive, no editing. Take a look yourself. Sorry that you can't accept evidence presented to you as a whole. WHO KNOWS? So far, what you posted tonight doesn't prove anything. In fact, it appears that Jonas is saying that it is YOU WHO SAID something about guilt and no hearings, which makes your tautalogical lunacy even more difficult to decipher. Given your record of mendacity here, you're going to have to do better. If you can find Jonas' original post and put it up UNREDACTED, the hours you've wasted might show for once you can tell the truth. I think it's pretty clear who's record here actually is honorable and complete. Sorry that you can't face yourself in the mirror in the morning. Bye, RMc I don't suspect that your are unable to show us one post where someone has said that athletes should be banned WITHOUT a hearing. WELL, WE'RE WAITING? -Judge Smails malmo -Original Message- From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:21 PM To: TFMail List Cc: Martin J. Dixon; George Malley Subject: Re: Proof positive At 05:20 PM 10/29/2003 -0800, t-and-f-digest wrote: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:19:19 -0500 From: Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy There have been innumerable calls for athletes to be banned immediately upon certification of the B test, WITHOUT a hearing. Absolute nonsense. Totally with malmo here. Show me the exact words in this thread where I said that. And show me one of the numerous messages you refer to where it was said by anyone. Laughing at a ludicrous defence and calling for someone's head without due process are 2 completely different things. I've engaged in the former but certainly not in the latter. Can't think of anyone who has. Below is but two examples of statement made here, in this thread no less, that athletes should be banned WITHOUT a hearing. RMc Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy From: B. Kunnath Subject: Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:06:37 + --- - This whole drug debate is like flogging a dead horse. People on drugs find ways (and sympathizers) to get off the charges. People who arent on drugs are susupected of doping, rightly or wrongly. Remember, this is their JOB. Its not a game or a hobby. Think for a second that you are in the World Champs. Would you risk not putting down every single pill your popping from Aspirin to modafinil? Esp if you had been busted once before? Yes even soy just in case they suspect you off having too much protein! I know I would, I'd have too much to lose...like my paycheck. Its got to be clean cut: if you're busted, like White, Jerome Young etc, you've got to go. NO EXCUSES, NO SYMPATHY. If you're not, play on until you get caught. And if they havent been caught its absolutely meaningless to come here or anywhere else spreading rumors about it. Its a waste of time. Why? Because its hard enough getting a conviction. By the way, who was the last athlete to get busted and admit to it? Finally, if watching grown men getting
RE: t-and-f: Maturity
Goes to show you how important a good nights sleep is? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Winfried Kramer Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 12:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Maturity Here are some figures which made me think a lot even before I heard about TGH: Kevin Toth: PB of 21.78m in 1997 improved to 22.67m this year at the age of 35 Regina Jacobs: PB of 4:00.46 in 1988 (25) improved to 3:59.98 at the age of 40 Christe Gaines: PB of 10.89 in 1998 (28) improved to 10.86 in 2003 at the age of 33 I live in the neighbourhood of Saarbruecken, where White, Chambers, Gaines etc. trained before the world championships. I know some local athletes and coaches who also train there regularly. In August one of them told me that they were surprised to see the physical difference of White compared to one year before when she trained in Saarbrücken too ... -- Winfried Kramer Kohlrodweg 12 66539 Neunkirchen/GERMANY ATFS Editor of NATIONAL ATHLETICS RECORDS Fax: (49) 6821 932101
RE: t-and-f: The Jet Lag excuse
Modafinal is so well known as a remedy for jet-lag that businessmen all around the world have been using it? Right? Yeah, right. malmo -Original Message- From: Martin J. Dixon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:39 AM To: malmo; 'Track Field List' Subject: Re: t-and-f: The Jet Lag excuse The other perplexing thing to me is, if indeed this modafinil substance is such a great drug to help with jet lag, why hasn't anyone from the distance fraternity been busted for it yet. Are distance types somehow exempt from this malady? Care to comment malmo? Forgot Eric Thomas-8 days between last overseas competition and nationals. http://www.tilastopaja.com/db/atm.asp?ID=12714 malmo wrote: Keep at it Martin. The is is, beer and sex, toothpaste, jet lag excuses have been offending all of our sensibilities for years. It's interesting to note when Kelli White first tested positive she said something about narcolepsy running in her family. Now it's jet lag? What's it going to be next month? malmo
t-and-f: RE: Proof positive....
Are you freakin nuts or what? 1) The B Kunneth post does NOT say anything about banishment without a hearing. FAILED 2) The Jonas Mureika post: You've spliced to posts together, so who can tell who posted what or in what context? WHO KNOWS? So far, what you posted tonight doesn't prove anything. In fact, it appears that Jonas is saying that it is YOU WHO SAID something about guilt and no hearings, which makes your tautalogical lunacy even more difficult to decipher. Given your record of mendacity here, you're going to have to do better. If you can find Jonas' original post and put it up UNREDACTED, the hours you've wasted might show for once you can tell the truth. I don't suspect that your are unable to show us one post where someone has said that athletes should be banned WITHOUT a hearing. WELL, WE'RE WAITING? -Judge Smails malmo -Original Message- From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:21 PM To: TFMail List Cc: Martin J. Dixon; George Malley Subject: Re: Proof positive At 05:20 PM 10/29/2003 -0800, t-and-f-digest wrote: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:19:19 -0500 From: Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy There have been innumerable calls for athletes to be banned immediately upon certification of the B test, WITHOUT a hearing. Absolute nonsense. Totally with malmo here. Show me the exact words in this thread where I said that. And show me one of the numerous messages you refer to where it was said by anyone. Laughing at a ludicrous defence and calling for someone's head without due process are 2 completely different things. I've engaged in the former but certainly not in the latter. Can't think of anyone who has. Below is but two examples of statement made here, in this thread no less, that athletes should be banned WITHOUT a hearing. RMc Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy From: B. Kunnath Subject: Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:06:37 + This whole drug debate is like flogging a dead horse. People on drugs find ways (and sympathizers) to get off the charges. People who arent on drugs are susupected of doping, rightly or wrongly. Remember, this is their JOB. Its not a game or a hobby. Think for a second that you are in the World Champs. Would you risk not putting down every single pill your popping from Aspirin to modafinil? Esp if you had been busted once before? Yes even soy just in case they suspect you off having too much protein! I know I would, I'd have too much to lose...like my paycheck. Its got to be clean cut: if you're busted, like White, Jerome Young etc, you've got to go. NO EXCUSES, NO SYMPATHY. If you're not, play on until you get caught. And if they havent been caught its absolutely meaningless to come here or anywhere else spreading rumors about it. Its a waste of time. Why? Because its hard enough getting a conviction. By the way, who was the last athlete to get busted and admit to it? Finally, if watching grown men getting into a hissy fit is your idea of entertainment, Im sure Drummond will be around to keep you happy. bob Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy From: Jonas Mureika Subject: Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:23:29 -0700 On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Richard McCann wrote: There's a reason for the statement innocent until proven guilty: ... in a court of law! *That* is the real application of this statement (and even that backfires, or the letters OJ wouldn't resonate in our minds). This point aside, however, they *are* guilty of having a substance in their system which is not supposed to be there according to the rules of competition. Your statement that if someone is busted then they are guilty, with NO hearings or procedures to determine if (1) the testing procedures was faulty (i.e., false positives, which are extremely common in medical testing) Don't forget that there are *two* samples which are tested. This redundancy is to reduce the chance of false positives. It does not eliminate them, but it does reduce the probability of an erroneous result. Second, no one, I repeat, NO ONE, is able to record absolutely every event or influence in their life. For example, I suspect that ALL of us have mistakes in our tax returns, ... A more appropriate tax analogy: suppose we were required to file on January 1st, and on Dec 31st you won the lottery. If you fail to claim this income on your return, then it's probably not an accident. When an athlete has taken medication immediately prior to running -- and the medication has *enabled* the athlete to compete in lieu of succumbing
RE: t-and-f: Track v other sports
The Easter Bloc occurs on the first Sunday after the first full on or after the Spring Equinox. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randall Northam Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:10 AM To: Dan Kaplan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Track v other sports Dan I think this discussion has gone far enough without bringing religion into it. Some of don't even know when Easter is next year so we are at a disadvantage - guilty until proven inoccent you might say - when it comes to the dissolution of what I understand is an important Christian festival. Randall Northam On Tuesday, Oct 28, 2003, at 19:25 Europe/London, Dan Kaplan wrote: I've always felt the plateau of various events' marks is easily explained by the dissolution of the Easter Bloc.
RE: t-and-f: Track v other sports
Yes, the Eastern Bloc remains the same, neither the equinox nor the full moon are changed by latitude. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Prizy Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:00 AM To: malmo Cc: 'Randall Northam'; 'Dan Kaplan'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Track v other sports But does the Easter Bloc occur at the same time in the northern and southern hemispheres? malmo wrote: The Easter Bloc occurs on the first Sunday after the first full on or after the Spring Equinox. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randall Northam Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:10 AM To: Dan Kaplan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Track v other sports Dan I think this discussion has gone far enough without bringing religion into it. Some of don't even know when Easter is next year so we are at a disadvantage - guilty until proven inoccent you might say - when it comes to the dissolution of what I understand is an important Christian festival. Randall Northam On Tuesday, Oct 28, 2003, at 19:25 Europe/London, Dan Kaplan wrote: I've always felt the plateau of various events' marks is easily explained by the dissolution of the Easter Bloc.
RE: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy
Perhaps if there are numerous messages of such a call without a hearing, you could find just ONE example that I missed. I've been unable to find it. Thank you Richard, your veracity is always counted upon here. malmo -Original Message- From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 11:33 AM To: malmo Cc: 'TFMail List'; 'Martin J. Dixon' Subject: RE: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy At 09:40 PM 10/28/2003 -0500, malmo wrote: This embellishment thing is getting tiresome. I've yet to hear of a band of vigilantes wanting penalties without a hearing. Unfortunately, you must not be reading the messages posted on this listserve. There have been innumerable calls for athletes to be banned immediately upon certification of the B test, WITHOUT a hearing. We've had long discussions about the legitimacy of relying solely on scientific tests as proof without regards to other facts. For example, my post retrieved by Martin Dixon recently that revived this thread was in direct response to just such a call.
RE: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy
This embellishment thing is getting tiresome. I've yet to hear of a band of vigilantes wanting penalties without a hearing. Most of us are just getting damn tired of these depends of what the menaing of is is defenses. Many of us disagree with you, and believe an open process the only way to go. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 12:38 PM To: TFMail List Cc: Martin J. Dixon Subject: Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy Yes, because my argument is about procedure and athlete's rights. The vigilante attitude that athletes are guilty until proven innocent is ridiculous. My comment was made in the obvious context that someone proposed that athletes record everything that they've ingested over their entire careers. There is no provision for human errors in such a policy. To somehow make the anecdotal case of White's applicable to absolutely all other cases is ludicrous. A universally legitimate and supportable drug enforcement policy must be able to account for human foibles. On a procedural point, the vigilantes wanted to immediately move forward with penalties WITHOUT any ability of the athlete, White in this case, to have a hearing. Perhaps White did have a legitimate explanation. NONE of us had ANY knowledge of whether her explanation was true or not. The vigilantes would just immediately move to the conclusion that she was guilty solely because she failed to declare the drug on the precompetition list. I agree that the Mondafil scandal is now expanding, and we don't yet even understand the full implications of its use. But the discovery of wider use has come from drug testing, not whether an athlete has declared the drug or not. RMc At 02:40 PM 10/27/2003 -0800, t-and-f-digest wrote.. Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:07:52 -0400 From: Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy Given the most recent, and what is sure to be more, revelations, are we still going with this? Richard McCann wrote: I don't know why we should hold athletes to an even higher standard than ourselves--in fact I find it hypocritical. You're implying that White should have gone so far as record absolutely everything that she ingested--where does she make the cutoff as to what to report? She may not have realized that the drug had some type of stimulant.
RE: Re: t-and-f: more or less cheating
And I can see how to, but I'll leave that to those who know better, which is neither of us. Jayson Blair couldn't have said it better. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 5:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: P.F.Talbot; TFMail List Subject: Re: Re: t-and-f: more or less cheating Take it up with Dick Pound. He seems to think the problem is solvable. (And I can see how to, but I'll leave that to those who know better, which is neither of us.) RMc At 03:24 PM 10/27/2003 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know how many drug tests you've ever had Richard, perhaps you could explain how COC is preserved AFTER the sample has been opened? There's only one way that I can think of: that the athlete/representative be present during the opening (as is the option on the B sample) and, MOST IMPORTANT, the resealing and re-certification of the now open B sample. Perhaps I missed something? malmo From: Richard McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/10/27 Mon PM 02:10:03 CST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: P.F.Talbot [EMAIL PROTECTED], TFMail List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: t-and-f: more or less cheating I think that's one of the issues to be addressed. Dick Pound claims that issue can be solved, but the question is whether physical preservation possible for extended periods. RMc At 12:14 PM 10/27/2003 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good idea, BUT how is the chain of custody preserved once the samples have been opened? malmo From: Richard McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/10/27 Mon AM 10:59:44 CST To: P.F.Talbot [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: (TFMail List) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: more or less cheating At 04:39 PM 10/24/2003 -0700, t-and-f-digest wrote: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:08:41 -0600 From: P.F.Talbot [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: more or less cheating Okay I am a cynic, but does anyone else think that the current scandal will lead to MORE cheating, not less. Doesn't this raise the bar to the level where those who use drugs will want a designer steroid. There was an article from the Denver Post, rerun in the Sacto Bee on Sunday, where there's a push lead by Frank Shorter to preserve urine and blood samples for several years, even indefinitely, and to periodically retest these samples as new drugs are discovered. Medalists could then be stripped retroactively for violations out to a 3 to 8 year statute of limitations. The political support for this option is probably growing rapidly right now. Retroactive testing could be a huge deterrent for designer drugs, particularly since opposing coaches would know exactly who to target and expose ex post. Richard McCann
RE: t-and-f: RE: Jacobs reported A positive
Richard, read you mail from oldest to newest, then the newest posts wouldn't seem crypic, and you'd avoid posting old news. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:34 PM To: TFMail List Subject: t-and-f: RE: Jacobs reported A positive OK, to be even less cryptic, here's the Washington Post article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2614-2003Oct22.html At 10:15 AM 10/23/2003 -0700, t-and-f-digest wrote: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:38:13 -0400 From: Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Jacobs was Re: t-and-f: Chambers positive I am assume that you are referring to this in case anyone is sleeping: www.letsrun.com Low key, understated and subtle as always. malmo wrote: How did Regina Jacobs do at World Champs? Did Victor check her blood/urine? malmo
RE: t-and-f: Washington Post - another name
If there was a daylight policy it wouldn't matter. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of edndana Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:29 AM To: Athletics Subject: t-and-f: Washington Post - another name We have a third name. I'll tell you, USADA are doing a great job avoiding leaks before the B samples are tested :) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2614-2003Oct22.html - Ed Parrot
RE: t-and-f: Chambers positive
LMFAO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Prizy Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 9:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Chambers positive Yea, typical overreaction, because this is just another typical lab raid. But, I don't overreact for every lab raid, just the raids that involve multi government agencies, NGBs and other agencies secretly collaborating, when possibly a few thousand drug screens will be retested, and only when 40 or more athletes get subpoenaed to testify. Other than that, I didn't overreact for any of the lab raids we had last month. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Get ready for the Stone Age or BC Olympics, as in nothing but B and C teams in Greece. Typical overreaction. So far no names have been kicked around that weren't involved with Conte. So who all is a member of that club that Conte and Chambers were involved with? Even if we lose Montgomery, Toth, Marion, Chambers and some others, why wouldn't it still be an exciting Olympics? I don't need them. I'd rather watch a bunch of honest athletes producing circa-1958 performances than a bunch of cheatin' suicidal 'roid-heads going ape-wild setting the bar up in the stratosphere far out of reach of honest play-by-the-rules folks. Send Chambers, Toth their like to the NFL where they'll be welcome among their fellow chemical addicts. RT
RE: t-and-f: USATF announces Zero Tolerance anti-doping plan
I can see a bigger problem. Who has authority to levy fines? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne T. Armbrust Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: USATF announces Zero Tolerance anti-doping plan I can see a problem here. Even clean athletes may have trouble securing the services of a coach if the coach thinks he may be punished if the athlete uses banned drugs. An athlete may use drugs but the coach may be unaware and thus completely innocent. Michael J. Roth wrote: USATF announces Zero Tolerance anti-doping plan 10-22-2003 ?? Punish Coaches of athletes found guilty. USA Track Field will create a program to ban the coaches of athletes who test positive from our sport. In addition, the coaches will be fined up to $100,000, will not be eligible to be the coach of a U.S. Team, and will not be eligible for any USATF benefits. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx (TM) 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
t-and-f: Fire Masback now!
http://www.usatf.org/news/showRelease.asp?article=/news/releases/2003-10 -22.xml USATF announces Zero Tolerance anti-doping plan. Shouldn't zero tolerance be an unspoken axiom? If this wasn't such a serious matter it would be comical. What next, a Madison Avenue ad campaign? I've got zero, she's got zero, he's got zero, wouldn't ya like to be zero tolerance, to? No doubt, Captain Masback and crew of the SS USATF has been working on this ground-breaking zero tolerance program for years, and wouldn't release it until the final draft was correct? Right? A monthly anti-doping newsletter? What is this, student government or something? Who dreams up this sh!t? Masback, who has been flagrantly flouting all warnings to get his ship on course for years, finally responds when the USOC threatens to decommission his command? When he does, he orders the crew to shine the anchors with a zero tolerance plan, calling it a historic mandate. Mandate my ass! Captain, they've fired a warning shot across your bow! Get your ship home safely and resign. Even so, the USATF goes out-of-bounds to point out some of the other ships at sea aren't as rigorous with mandatory safety and other perfunctory inspections. Wake up Captain! The SS USATF is the biggest ship in the ocean and it has been violating all manner of International shipping treaties. It's not about THEM, it's about YOU! Clean up YOUR ship and YOUR crew. Why hasn't Masback been removed from the helm? Would any of you, at your profession, be retained after years of insolence and insubordination? I didn't think so - you'd be summarily dismissed. So too should Masback. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Prizy Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:32 PM To: Martin J. Dixon Cc: Track Field List Subject: Re: t-and-f: Chambers positive I believe that question came up, but I am not sure of the answer. The teleconference lasted about one hour and is on the USATF website: The digital audio replay of today's USATF teleconference on its new Zero Tolerance anti-doping plan is now posted at www.usatf.org The link is under the Featured Items section of the home page. You can access it by going to www.usatf.org or clicking on: Listen to the Zero Tolerance teleconference Martin J. Dixon wrote: Wasn't the original rumour 20. Maybe that included the modafinil positives? Mike Prizy wrote: In a telepress conference Wednesday morning, Craig Masback, USATF CEO, said there were four THG A sample positives from the U.S. Track Championships last June. He added that only three of these athletes advanced to the World Championships and none were medalists. Martin J. Dixon wrote: Dwain Chambers, the fastest man in Europe and one of Britain's main hopes for an Olympic gold medal next year, has tested positive for a new banned designer... http://sport.guardian.co.uk/athletics/story/0,10082,1068204,00.html -- Regards, Martin Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Millard Financial Consulting Inc. P.O. Box 367 96 Nelson Street Brantford, Ontario N3T 5N3 Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231 Telephone: (519) 759-3511 Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: www.millards.com Practice Areas: http://www.millards.com/profs/mjd.htm IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email may be confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email confirmation to the sender.
RE: t-and-f: Fire Masback now!
It appears as though the USOC has already done so. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of edndana Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:46 PM To: Athletics I don't share your opinion of Masback, but I do agree that the latest press release is not really much of a concrete step. I think the ship is a lot bigger than just the U.S. and will require international action to get closer to being on course. As I said last year, if USATF really is the problem, the IAAF and IOC need to put up (in terms of penalties) or shut up. - Ed Parrot
RE: t-and-f: Chambers positive
How did Regina Jacobs do at World Champs? Did Victor check her blood/urine? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Prizy Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 12:09 PM To: Martin J. Dixon Cc: Track Field List; track-canada Subject: Re: t-and-f: Chambers positive In a telepress conference Wednesday morning, Craig Masback, USATF CEO, said there were four THG A sample positives from the U.S. Track Championships last June. He added that only three of these athletes advanced to the World Championships and none were medalists. Martin J. Dixon wrote: Dwain Chambers, the fastest man in Europe and one of Britain's main hopes for an Olympic gold medal next year, has tested positive for a new banned designer... http://sport.guardian.co.uk/athletics/story/0,10082,1068204,00.html
t-and-f: Soul Vaccination - Tower of Power
From Music Match: Tower of Power Jump to: Discography * Biography * Influences * Performed Songs By * Related Styles * Photo: Rhino .. Artist MATCH Play This Artist Related Artists Artist ON DEMAND Play This Artist Got MUSICMATCH MX? Discography Most Popular albums 1973 Tower of Power Buy CD 1999 Soul Vaccination: Live Buy CD 1995 Souled Out Buy CD 1970 East Bay Grease Buy CD Album 2003 Oakland Zone Buy CD 1999 Soul Vaccination: Live Buy CD 1997 Direct Plus 1997 Rhythm Business Buy CD 1995 Souled Out Buy CD 1993 T.O.P. Buy CD 1991 Monster on a Leash Buy CD 1988 Direct 1988 Power 1979 Back on the Streets Buy CD 1978 We Came to Play Buy CD 1976 Live and in Living Color Buy CD 1976 Ain't Nothin' Stoppin' Us Now Buy CD 1975 Urban Renewal Buy CD 1975 In the Slot Buy CD 1974 Back to Oakland 1974 Funkland 1974 Back to Oakland Buy CD 1973 Tower of Power Buy CD 1972 Bump City Buy CD 1970 East Bay Grease Buy CD Box Set/Compilation 2002 Soul With a Capital S: The Best of Tower of Power Buy CD 2001 The Very Best of Tower of Power: The Warner Years Buy CD 2000 Dinosaur Tracks Buy CD 1999 What Is Hip?: The Tower of Power Anthology Buy CD more BIOGRAPHY The renowned horn-driven funk outfit Tower of Power has been issuing albums and touring the world steadily since the early '70s, in addition to backing up countless other musicians. The group's leader since the beginning has always been tenor saxophonist Emilio Castillo, who was born in Detroit, but opted to pursue his musical dreams in Oakland, CA... more Timeline Formed: 1967 in Oakland, CA Members Greg Adams, David Bartlett, Ron Beck, Ron E. Beck, Tom Bowes, Brent Byars, Brent Carter, Emilio Castillo, Bill Churchville, Bruce Conte, Victor Conte, Barry Danielian, Richard Elliot, Brandon Fields, Willie Fulton, David Garibaldi, Mic Gillette, Carmen Grillo, Ellis Hall, Danny Hoefer, Michael Jeffries, Stephen Doc Kupka, David Mann, Herman Matthews, Edward McGee, Russ McKinnon, Skip Mesquite, Mick Mestek, Rufus Miller, Nick Milo, David Padron, Lenny Pickett, Francis Prestia, Vito San Filippo, Jay Spell, Richard Stevens, Chester Thompson, Lee Thornburg, Hubert Tubbs, Lenny Williams Roots and Influences The Memphis Horns Performed Songs By Greg Adams, Bruce Conte, David Garibaldi, Michael Jeffries, Chester Thompson, Lenny Williams Related Styles Funk, Quiet Storm Most Played tracksSo Very Hard to Go What Is Hip? You're Still a Young Man Soul Vaccination Diggin' on James Brown more chartsRelated ArtistsEarth, Wind Fire The Average White Band James Brown George Benson War Lou Rawls Stevie Wonder The Spinners more recommendationsRelated RadioOld School Funk Classic Soul Party Anthems what's this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin J. Dixon Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 1:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Track Field List Subject: t-and-f: Balco-a pretty good summary Like a lot of professional musicians, Victor Conte finally had enough of late nights and empty refrigerators. Walkin' Fish, as he was known, hung up the bass guitar he played for the renowned Tower of Power and other Bay Area bands, and threw himself into the world of nutrition in the early 1980s. http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/7058292.htm
RE: Re: t-and-f: fwd: Marathon debutant Rutto, Boston champ Zakharova win at Chicago
Perhaps you misspoke, or perhaps this is yet another of your embellishments? Salazar's debut was never under the WR. We're all track fans here and you have little chance of getting any your numerous whoppers past us. Why keep trying? I just don't get it? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:15 PM To: alan tobin Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re: t-and-f: fwd: Marathon debutant Rutto, Boston champ Zakharova win at Chicago The record KK came within 20 seconds of wasn't 2 weeks old but 9 years old. It should also be known that KK isn't off my suspicion list either. So now a 9 year old record is considered weak, and it's OK for a debut mark to be near that record? Rutto's debut was 8 seconds off a 4 year old record mark--that doesnt' seem too out of line. And remember that Salazar's debut was momentarily under the old WR, and even with the time correction was extremely close. RMc I think we should adopt the cycling federations hematocrit test. If you're over 50 then you're out for health reasons The ICU is refusing to join the WADA. I don't know the circumstances, but perhaps someone can fill us in on the reasons. I know that cycling may be dumped from the Olympics for this. RMc Alan
RE: t-and-f: How big?
When they say it's all in the mind maybe they mean that literally? Tom Marketing wizzes determined long ago that All in the hypothalamus would never sell. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Derderian Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 9:41 PM To: edndana; Athletics Subject: Re: t-and-f: How big? Maybe the toughness of a marathoner needs not to be so much in the sinew but in the synapses. So if we were to look at the marthoner's brain would we find it different from the 10km runner's brain, if we find it at all? But seriously, maybe endorphin production differs. Sometimes I think long distance runners might not be able to produce enough of the stuff unless they are running. Maybe 10km runners produce more with less? When they say it's all in the mind maybe they mean that literally? Tom - Original Message - From: edndana [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Athletics [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 9:43 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: How big? I tend to think you're both right - lighter 10K guys can and do move up, but the average numbers will continue to be heavier for the marathoners because on average there is a little more muscle resistance required. Now here's an interesting question - at what point between 10K and marathon would the scale start to tip to the heavier (pun not intended!)? If the marathon was on the track, would we not see the difference (I still think we'd see some difference). If the hour run was contested regularly, would those athletes be lighter than the 10K athletes? If the 10K on the road was an Olympic event, would those athletes be built more like marathoners or 10K track runners. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:42 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: How big? --- alan tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the marathon you must have muscles and connective tissue strong enough to handle the pounding. That's been a commonly held belief for some time now, but I think it's being pretty heavily refuted by the current crop of 5k/10k studs re-writing the record books. Tergat, Geb, Radcliffe, and now Rutto come to mind, and Laroupe and Khannouchi did their share of track running before focusing on the roads. As far as I know, their respective physiologies haven't changed as they've moved up. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Post WWII period
I can't seem to find such a requisition? At ease sailor. malmo -Original Message- From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:03 PM To: malmo Cc: 'TFMail List' Subject: RE: t-and-f: Post WWII period You asked for the old email--I sent it along. No need to pursue this thread. RMc At 09:28 PM 10/9/2003 -0400, malmo wrote: OH, now you switch to another thread from back July? Why didn't you say so? THAT'S A HORSE OF A DIFFERENT COLOR, ISN'T IT? malmo -Original Message- From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 8:40 PM To: TFMail List Cc: malmo Subject: Re: t-and-f: Post WWII period [It was actually a set of interchanges with Dave Johnson following a post on T-and-F. Here's what I've got in my files. RMc] The 46-57 period set the stage for the burst in the early 1960s, but I think it is more instructive to look at the period from 1959 to 1965 when Elliot, Clarke (and Ryun) did most of the WR reductions the 1500, 5k and 10k. Using that metric and measuring the improvement on a per year basis, those records fell at a faster annual rate. A table showing the record progressions and the rate per year. The marks set in 1965-67 are dramatically faster on an annual rate of improvement than the earlier period (and Clarke's is obscured by the stagnation between '56 and '65 in the 10k). What's most interesting is that the 1500 and 10k marks still would be in the top 20 year list, and the 5k in the top 40 in 2002. I don't think you can say the same thing about the pre 1957 records in 1992, or even 1982. The mid 1960 records represented a burst in performance improvement that have not been equaled since on the men's side. While Elliot did not improve the records substantially himself, his unique training approach and racing strategies broke from the 1950's rut and set the stage for Ryun and Clarke.
RE: RE: t-and-f: The Study was a 1995 poll
You can't bullshit a bullshitter. If the price of gold and other precious metals was flat from 1985 to 1991 then broke out dramatically in 1992 and continued unabated until 1998, even the sloppiest of economists wouldn't dare suggest that there had been a steady increase in the metals markets since 1985 would they? malmo -Original Message- From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:13 PM To: malmo Cc: TFMail List Subject: RE: RE: t-and-f: The Study was a 1995 poll At 09:28 PM 10/9/2003 -0400, malmo wrote.. Post-modernism at its finest, but sorry, your original post only spoke of a time-frame ...since 1985 And the improvement since 1985 went like this: And I would argue that you are confusing bursts of record activity, which are extremely common over history (e.g., 1924-28, 1942-44, 1955-57, 1965-67, 1975-78, and yes, 1993-98). But my premise is that those bursts are built on a build up of talent and various training and racing expectations that are let loose by one or a few individuals who coincide with that period (eg. Nurmi, Haag/Anderson, Zatopek/Kuts/Bannister, Clarke/Ryun, Bayi/Walker/Rono, Morcelli/El G/Komen/Gebresellasie). So what I measured was the rate of improvement from burst to burst, not the rate within a burst. This is akin to measuring economic growth. It's not appropriate to measure the average rate from the bottom of a recession to the top of a boom--the proper measurement is taken from the same point in the economic cycle, e.g., the bottom of one recession to the bottom of the next. That's my approach, which is probably colored by my profession... RMc
RE: RE: t-and-f: The Study was a 1995 poll
Hey, thanks for the speadsheet! PREFACE: When I use an ellipsis I NEVER use it to omit relevant information or to distort context. You said, What's equally striking is that the men's distance marks have improved dramatically since 1985... Which, is true... However, I added, Actually, it wasn't until the 1990s that the men's distance marks made the dramatic gap. Which, of course, is a more accurate description of the rate of improvement of the men's WRs. To which you responded with a verbose, deliberately misleading filibuster, where you shifted your contention a bit to, My point is that since 1985, the men's records have continued to fall at a relatively steady rate... I then, repeated the facts (implying that it hasn't been a relatively steady rate) and asked you to do your homework first. You did, and almost as expected, provided a tainted data table, with an analysis from left field, The trend analysis reinforces a point I made earlier--the record burst in the 1960s lead by Ron Clarke and Jim Ryun shows a greater annual improvement rate than just about any other period, you said. Post-modernism at its finest, but sorry, your original post only spoke of a time-frame ...since 1985 And the improvement since 1985 went like this: Dist/Yr Time Improvement Impr/Yr 1500 198503:29.5 na na 199103:29.5 00 0.0% 0.0% 199803:26.0 3.5 .5 1.7% 0.24% 3000sc 1985 8:05.4 na na 1991 8:05.4 0 0 0.0% 0.0% 1997 7:55.72 9.68 1.612.0% 0.34% 5000 198513:00.40 na na 198712:58.4 2 1.0 0.26% 0.13% 199312:58.4 0 0 0.0% 0.0% 199812:39.4 19.03.82.5% 0.50% 1 198527:13.81 na na 198927:08.25.61 1.40 0.34% 0.09% 199227:08.20 0 0.0% 0.0% 199826:22.8 45.4 7.56 2.9% 0.48 Which clearly illustrates that the men's world records stagnated until sometime after 1991, where the steepness of improvement was dramatic. At least a five-fold increase in the yearly rate of change (85-91/92/93), and up to -- well -- an infinity-fold rate of change. -Original Message- From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 8:33 PM Malmo Attached is the spreadsheet. You can go to this website and get the WR progressions that you want. http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/3170/index_s.html I'm not sure what your point is, but what's interesting is that in my analysis, the rate of record improvement for men slowed in the 1970s when drug usage was unregulated! In other words, contrary to the women and men throwers, the availability of drugs appears to either have had little or even a contrary effect on male distance runners. If you're point is that the men's records were pretty constant from 1987 to 1991, that's not unusual. The same thing happened from 1967 to 1972, and from 1944 to 1954. Are you asserting that there was widespread use of drugs occurring in 1954 and 1972? But you completely missed the point of my analysis. The men's marks did improve relatively steadily through the 1970s and 1980s. In contrast, the women's mark improvements came to an almost complete halt after 1984. Look at the women's 1500 top ten average at the website you referenced, and compare that the men's. The men's marks have improved over time, while the women's looks like a random walk. Also, I made my point earlier about the men's throws--again complete stagnation since the mid 1980s. Again, I ask question: given the women's distance running is so comparatively new, and we are only now reaching the point where young women have been exposed to athletics for their entire life in most developed nations, why have the women's marks stagnated for 20 years while the men have been making progress during that entire period? At 06:38 PM 10/9/2003 -0400, malmo wrote: Richard, with your unabashed willingness to deliberately distort the data you clearly have the aptitude to become a political operative (economist is close enough). Here let's see how the numbers work when you run calculations with these significant intermediate dates(***).: The figures show that clearly the events made huge drops after the dates I supplied in my previous post. For those who are the visual type, what follows are some purdy graphs to further illustrate.: http://digilander.libero.it/rzocca/ 1500 194403:43.0 195703:38.1 4.9 0.377 196703:33.1 5.0 0.500 198003:31.4 1.7 0.134 198503:29.5 1.9 0.380 ***199103:29.5 take a wild guess (85-91) or recalc 1980 to 1991 199803:26.0 recalcrecalc 3000sc (none provided by you, because you can't manipulate the data) 1976 8:08.0 1978 8:05.4 2.6 1.3 ***1991 8:05.4 take a wild guess (78-91), or recalc 1976 to 1991 1997 7:55.72 __ __ 5000 194213:58.4 195713:35.0 23.41.560 196613:16.6
RE: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport
Improper use of ellipses. Ban him! Or better yet, make him READ every post in this thread ONCE - all the way through. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Liccardo Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 9:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport Why the need to use every punctuation mark in triplicate? It is very distracting. From: Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not at all ... You have yet to show that the ATHLETES are at risk ... I am well aware of rulemaking processes ... I done my share of rulemaking on boards and other govening bodies: ... you have yet to show why this particular rule should exist other than your personal preference ... A rather circular argument ... You don't have to show harm ... Why not ??? You are saying there is danger then yes you DO need to show it !!! But as you said earlier, if you don't have to prove your point why do I have to PROVE mine ... As you say it is PERCIEVED harm ... Yet to be proven ... And if we are talking about regulating people then yes it SHOULD be proven ... Lives, livelihoods, money, medals, much is at stake ... Perception alone should not be enough _ Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
RE: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport
Perhaps Mike, you should brush up on your reading skills. I didn't say anything about Reynolds guilt. I said I wouldn't be so sure. As a matter of fact, here on this list in the past, I've noted the Reynolds passed tests both immediately before and after he got popped. Added to this, his demeaner (unlike Slaney's) was that of an innocent man. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Prizy Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 12:55 PM To: Conway Hill Cc: Richard McCann; Dan Kaplan; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport I believe Butch's case was overturned on appeal in a U.S. court on a jurisdiction ruling, negating his $27 million award. Butch got screwed on poor chain-of-custody procedures (regardless of what King George thinks.) Somebody peed a positive. It just wasn't his. Conway Hill wrote: But it is ok to leave the door open for athletes to be wrongly occused and to lose medals and tears of competition to a poor testing system that has only an inherent moral basis And of course the opportunity for litigation thtat that provides ... Is that correct ?? For example Butch Reynolds and his trip down litigation lane ... Now there was a great example of looking out after our athletes !!! Didn'tb he win ?? Oh wat, he never got paid !! Yeah ... Let's base a system on the potntial nature of litigation !!! That works ... - Original Message - From: Richard McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 3:25 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport The problem with your proposal is that it does open up the use of drugs which MAY be harmful. Given the litigious nature of our society today, I can already see an athlete suing the IAAF for allowing the use of a harmful substance, which in effect required the athlete to use the substance to be competitive. You only need to look at the actions on electromagnetic radiation from cell phones and electric appliances to realize that this could be a very substantial liability. (And there are many more examples--just look at Superfund litigation.) This situation means that we need to err on the side of caution on this issue. Richard McCann
RE: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport
Or perhaps you need to stop looking for something that's not there? -Original Message- From: Mike Prizy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 3:27 PM To: malmo Cc: 'Conway Hill'; 'Richard McCann'; 'Dan Kaplan'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport My reading skills have nothing to do with it. Maybe I need to brush up on mind reading or telepathy. malmo wrote: Perhaps Mike, you should brush up on your reading skills. I didn't say anything about Reynolds guilt. I said I wouldn't be so sure. As a matter of fact, here on this list in the past, I've noted the Reynolds passed tests both immediately before and after he got popped. Added to this, his demeaner (unlike Slaney's) was that of an innocent man. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Prizy Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 12:55 PM To: Conway Hill Cc: Richard McCann; Dan Kaplan; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport I believe Butch's case was overturned on appeal in a U.S. court on a jurisdiction ruling, negating his $27 million award. Butch got screwed on poor chain-of-custody procedures (regardless of what King George thinks.) Somebody peed a positive. It just wasn't his. Conway Hill wrote: But it is ok to leave the door open for athletes to be wrongly occused and to lose medals and tears of competition to a poor testing system that has only an inherent moral basis And of course the opportunity for litigation thtat that provides ... Is that correct ?? For example Butch Reynolds and his trip down litigation lane ... Now there was a great example of looking out after our athletes !!! Didn'tb he win ?? Oh wat, he never got paid !! Yeah ... Let's base a system on the potntial nature of litigation !!! That works ... - Original Message - From: Richard McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 3:25 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport The problem with your proposal is that it does open up the use of drugs which MAY be harmful. Given the litigious nature of our society today, I can already see an athlete suing the IAAF for allowing the use of a harmful substance, which in effect required the athlete to use the substance to be competitive. You only need to look at the actions on electromagnetic radiation from cell phones and electric appliances to realize that this could be a very substantial liability. (And there are many more examples--just look at Superfund litigation.) This situation means that we need to err on the side of caution on this issue. Richard McCann
RE: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.)
You don't know any athletes do you Dan? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 12:53 AM To: 'track list' Subject: RE: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.) The only athletes I've heard of against doping are the ones getting beat. Dan --- malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the athletes, by a huge margin, are against doping and support bans for those who do. Trying to distort the debate by suggesting that a few European Aristocrats are responsible for unjust rules is not reality. Those who support doing away with doping controls are limited to the staff of Track and Field News and a handful of internet malcontents. malmo = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.)
And the athletes, by a huge margin, are against doping and support bans for those who do. Trying to distort the debate by suggesting that a few European Aristocrats are responsible for unjust rules is not reality. Those who support doing away with doping controls are limited to the staff of Track and Field News and a handful of internet malcontents. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of P.F.Talbot Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:54 PM To: track list Subject: RE: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.) I think the issue of WHO decides what is banned is a good one. Why is it a bunch of European aristocrats? The answer should be the athletes. Athletics is an endeavor where labor has little to say about how things are done and needs some institutional body to do so. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:28 PM To: track list Subject: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.) I'm forwarding this message for Conway, who for whatever reason cannot get any of his messages through to the list. If a list supervisor can respond to one of us (his email address is below), that would be appreciated. When all the mud slinging, suspending, accusations, etc are done my question is: What is clean? Who defines it? THAT is really the major issue behind it all. Why do we test? I have yet to have anyone in the know give me a clear answer. Is it for the athletes safety? Is it to provide a level playing field? And if so, why? And who defines level playing field? Based on what criteria? I would never take drugs personally, either performance enhancing OR recreational. But people DO. Performance enhancing AND recreational. Many of you on this list, as do many IAAF officials and normal human beings consume alcohol which once upon a time was the center of the Prohibition movement - which treated consumers of alcohol the same way users of performance enhanacing drugs are treated today. And arguably alcohol consumption has and will lead to more deaths than performance enhancing drug use ever will! There are those that consider the consumption of alcohol a sin! Who's rules? Who decides? Are all of you who consume alcohol NOT clean people? All successful societies have rules. However, rules need to serve a purpose. The need to have some reason for existing. From what I've seen the drug rules have no reason other than to say that some people are good and others are bad! You can't legislate morality. Otherwise alcohol use would have been stopped long ago. As would marijuana use. And many other things. You can never have a level playing field as some people are more genetically inclined than others. Some federations have more money. Somem countries have better development programs. Some better coaching. So, aside from routinely making the sport look amateurish, poorly run, corrupt, and drug ridden, why are we testing? We're saving who? Leveling what? Accomplishing what? Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.)
That's mighty generous of you. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Conway Hill Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Kurt Bray Subject: Re: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.) The only reason that the public KNOWS is cause we tell em ... We tell em who takes what ... And we tell em how bad it is ... The only reason their was a flap regarding Viren is cause WE told the publici ... WE being track and field ... The only reason their is any
RE: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport
Dan, you've never competed before, muche less during either of those periods. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 6:30 PM To: track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport Dan Kaplan wrote: If personal remarks are your thing, let me point out that at least one of us never took performance enhancing drugs. Lest I be accused of hypocricy, let me make a correction and a clarification. That should be *illegal* performance enhancing drugs, as I've gone on record several times as having experimented with creatine. Also, I did take ephedrine for about a week for allergies and felt like my heart was going to explode. Didn't compete during either of those periods. There, I've come clean. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport
If you are taking vitamins in an attempt to stop an athlete from catching colds, I suspect that you are victim of many more old-wives tales. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew H FraserMoat Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 6:25 AM To: 'Randy Treadway'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport This is the best post I have read on this list for many years. I am in the same camp as you, Randy. The only slight difference is that I think it is OK to take daily doses of multi-vitamins to stop the athlete catching colds etc. Matthew Fraser Moat -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Treadway Sent: 05 September 2003 22:23 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport snipped Which camp are YOU in? Anybody who claims that they were caught for stuff like nandro because it was in a mismarked supplement that they were taking (specifically as a compliment to their athletic training)- well it's hard for me to have much sympathy for them, because I think they were violating the spirit of the sport to begin with. If you had any doubt which camp I'm in, it's now obvious.
RE: t-and-f: The American mystery person
Ed, don't believe everything you read. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Grant Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 12:15 AM To: track net Subject: t-and-f: The American mystery person Netters: I have nothing to add on the mystery person who is supposed to have been found violating the drug laws, but I do have a question. Why didn't the person who advanced tis news identify the sex of the accused individual? That would have immediately cleared half the people now under suspicion. Ed Grant
RE: t-and-f: Kelli White narcolepsy
Your extrapolation of the American justice system into the long standing standard of proof in Western society is quite a stretch. Sorry Richard, innocent until proven guilty only has meaning in the context of American criminal law, which doping cases are not. Even so, in our criminal courts system, the presumption of innocence is routinely dismissed for such practical reasons as: 1) probability of guilt and/or successful prosecution, or risk of flight, 2) severity of the crime and the potential for immediate risk to society. While you are running around the playground hollering innocent until proven guilty, why don't throw in it's a free country? It'll bring back fond memories of recess. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:46 PM Three problems with this statement: First, you are reversing the long-standing standard of proof in Western society. You are presuming that the athletes are GUILTY, and must prove themselves innocent over and over. There's a reason for the statement innocent until proven guilty: it... Richard McCann
RE: t-and-f: Lagat now
Oh QUIT TALKING ABOUT DRUGS!!. ITS NEGATIVITY SUCH AS THIS THAT'S RUINING THE SPORT, NOT DRUGS!. LAGAT IS A SMILING, PASTORAL FARMER WHO WOULDN'T EVEN TOUCH ASPIRIN! malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin J. Dixon Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 4:47 PM To: Track Field List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Lagat now I forget where I saw it but someone that it was odd that Lagat pulled out at the last minute http://www.nationaudio.com/News/DailyNation/Today/Sports/Sports0.html Regards, Martin
RE: t-and-f: Edwin Moses Comeback?!!
Yup, soliciting an undercover police officer for sex acts after walking out of a book store at 3 am is bad news! malmo Moses admits he sometimes believes he and fellow Laureus ambassadors are swimming upstream against the bad publicity of athletes' problems ranging from greedy behavior to criminal behavior to abusive behavior with performance-enhancing or social drugs. Bad news travels faster and louder than good news, he said. The foundation he heads has tried to pump up the volume by staging an annual awards ceremony honoring exceptional athletes. Winners have been as well-known to Americans as golfer Tiger Woods, as little-known as the French soccer team and Olympic track star Cathy Freeman of Australia, and as obscure as equator circumnavigator Mike Horn of South Africa. The Laureus program draws its name from a universal sports symbol of triumph, the laurel wreath. The Latin word Laureus can be translated to mean both the wreath and its triumphant recipient. Copyright C 2003, Chicago Tribune Dan Kaplan wrote: What is he now, 45 or 50? Maybe coming back in the Masters ranks... Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
Hopefully, smelling salts will be close by? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of edndana Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 6:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000 If Kennedy - who has run mid-50's at the end of a 5K - could not easily run 24.5, I'd be shocked. Same with Bickford and Virgin.
RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
I'd be a big seller on that claim. malmoo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of edndana Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 1:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000 Perhaps our 10k guys (and 5k guys) go about training too much like they would for a marathon and don't focus enough on speed. Geb constantly talks about improving his speed. How many of our 10k guys can run 24.5 flat out let alone at the end of a 10k? Jeez, I'm sure at least 8 of our top 10 10K guys could run 24.5 all out, if not all of them. They may never actually have done so, but I bet nearly all of them could. - Ed Parrot
RE: t-and-f: Jericho Mile at Athens?
This story doesn't just float from one major media platform to the next on its own. Someone is peddling this thing. Regardless, Dick Brown should be held to shame for being involved in any manner with this con. I'm all for second chances, but ex-convicts need steady employment not another con to perpetuate. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin J. Dixon I believe that it said in the article that his pre-incarceration pb in the mile was 4:17. I guess the story has subsequently been on CBS and ESPN. Regards, Martin
RE: t-and-f: Slaney for Hall of Fame?
Sorry Dan, your response is nonsense. Was Mary Slaney the only woman on birth control pills? No. Who else has a false positive, then? No one. Has Mary Slaney ever shown that her E/P ratio is elevated because of birth control pills? No. Has she ever offered to be tested? The answer is no. Why? You know. Why not? The answer certainly is not money. Much of it was wasted on nuisance lawsuits. It would seem that if athletes were being wronged by the big, bad IAAF then the cause would be there for an advocate of fairness. The reason is simple, when Slaney was busted, she chose to drag a lot of well-meaning people into this last, most public tantrum of hers. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Slaney for Hall of Fame? --- Kurt Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would seem to me that the burden of proof here is on Slaney. The test has already been proven and is currently in place and accepted as a valid measure of doping. If Slaney (or anyone else) cares to assert that the test is flawed or that she is an exception, it's going to be up to her to prove it. It's not up to the doping agencies to refute her assertion. Sorry Kurt, but that's nonsense. If the test is to determine the livelihood of all athletes, then it should be well enough tested to ensure it is valid across the full range of athletes. That includes testing it on women taking birth control pills. If that was done, then there's no issue. Just release the findings and be done with it. If it hasn't been done, then the test is standing on very shaky ground and deserves to be fired away at. As things now stand Mary is a convicted doper. I don't favor putting Ben Johnson in any sort of Canadian Track Hall of Fame, neither do I favor putting Slaney in the US Hall of Fame. Not the best of examples, seeing as how Ben is a more or less admitted doper and Mary isn't. If the test which found her guilty can't be supported (emphasis on if), then the whole thing is hogwash. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Linz Results _ Fredericks 10.14/20.38 wins, Wignall 110H NR - 13.28
Theres your answer: http://www.tilastopaja.com/db/atm.asp?ID=13845 malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Derderian Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 3:22 PM To: Peter Stuart; Kebba Tolbert Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Linz Results _ Fredericks 10.14/20.38 wins, Wignall 110H NR - 13.28 Ok, I love Frankie, how old is he? - Original Message - From: Peter Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kebba Tolbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:49 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Linz Results _ Fredericks 10.14/20.38 wins, Wignall 110H NR - 13.28 A great day for Frankie. You got to love this guy. He was running while some of the other guys were still learning how to walk. Go Frankie !!! :):):) Official Result Men - 100 METRESWind:0m/s Pos Athlete Nat Mark 1 Fredericks FrankNAM 10.14 2 Gardener Jason GBR 10.17 3 Brown DarrelTRI 10.17 4 Zakari Aziz GHA 10.30 5 Al-Obaidli Khaled Youssef QAT 10.38 6 Dubois Daniel SUI 10.51 7 Osovych Sergiy AUT 10.53 Purkrabek ThomasAUT DNF Official Result Men - 200 METRESWind:+0.8m/s Pos Athlete Nat Mark 1 Fredericks FrankNAM 20.38 2 Louahla Malik ALG 20.85 3 Osovych Sergiy AUT 20.90 4 Zakari Aziz GHA 20.91 5 Osovnikar Matic SLO 20.92 6 Lüthi MarkusSUI 20.98 7 Welz Hans-Peter AUT 21.74 Loum Oumar SEN DNF ic
RE: t-and-f: Cathy Freeman retires
David, I have BFD typed after my name on my personal checks. It amuses many a grocery store clerk. What does it mean? they ask. Exactly what you think it does malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dcw23 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:26 AM To: Uri Goldbourt, PhD; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Post, Marty Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] uoregon. edu' (E-mail) Subject: Re: t-and-f: Cathy Freeman retires Haha, yes, almost as pompous as someone who feels the need to put the letters Phd after their name on an email account. :) I think Steve Bennett put it all nicely in his email. Uri, don't let things like this stress you. We are just rather proud of her down here. Its nice in this day and age that the general populous can still show such admiration towards an individual. Its a sad fact of today's world that most people feel the need to put others down in order to feel better about themselves. Freeman on the contrary just makes us all feel good about ourselves. David - Original Message - From: Uri Goldbourt, PhD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: dcw23 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Post, Marty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] uoregon. edu' (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:27 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Cathy Freeman retires What pompous pomposity... Poor Cathy. She did what no one else did. Herb Elliot, for example, only won 1500 meters in a fantastic world record time. Betty Cuthbert won Olympic gold in 400 M 8 years after winning 100 and 200. Etc etc... The inflation of Freeman's achievements is becoming an uncontrollable hype.
RE: t-and-f: Lananna
Easy. Who can afford to live in the South Bay Area on a track coaches salary? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Cook Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Lananna Here are the school records for distance events at Oberlin College for men: 1500m - 3:58.72, 3000m Steeplechase - 9:17.62, 5000m - 15:15.0, 10,000m 31:56.5 http://www.oberlin.edu/athletic/varsity/m_outdoor_track/records/m_outdoo r_records.html No offense to the people at Oberlin, but these numbers speak for themselves. That is why we all love track and field, the numbers don't lie. Can somebody explain why one of the most successful coaches would leave a premier division I school, and one of the best programs in the country, for a job at a division III school in Ohio that most people, who aren't familiar with mid-west division III schools, including myself, have never heard of? Have I missed a few threads on this subject? Palo Alto, California vs. Oberlin, Ohio...hmmm...easy decision for me. Did the dancing tree or whatever the #$#! mascot on the farm attack Vin? Is there a sex scandal here; something to add a little life to this list; or maybe we should go back to the same old drug threads? Per the Oberlin website Oberlin is easily accessible by car, plane or bus. Seriously, Oberlin is a private religious based university. Is Vin's reasoning religious based? This is quite a coup for the people involve at Oberlin.
RE: t-and-f: Timing yourself in an indoor 5,000M?
Never heard of such a rule in my life. Must have something to do with that 1600/3200 thing? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Cook Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 11:07 PM To: 'Dan Kaplan'; 'Athletics' Subject: RE: t-and-f: Timing yourself in an indoor 5,000M? I thought not wearing a watch was an NCAA rule which was enforced at the championships? I never wore a watch on the track anyway but I vividly remember the day when the clerk confiscated all the watches right on the starting line at both the NCAA's and at international meets when I competed. Anybody else remember this? -Ray -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 8:34 PM To: Athletics Subject: Re: t-and-f: Timing yourself in an indoor 5,000M? But as always, there's two sides to every story... I basically didn't know my 800m PR from my Junior year of high school until my Junior year of college due to two separate timing mishaps. The first was during an early season all-comers meet my Senior year of HS. I felt I ran my best race by far, but no one got a time on me (back of the pack in a much faster than expected race). Several people in the stands thought I finished in the ballpark of what would have been a big PR... Frosh year of college, 1st or 2nd meet, another screw up in the form of a 5 second timing discrepancy. Coach had me at about what I felt I ran -- not a PR -- the official results had me 5 seconds faster. Injured most of the track season Sophomore year and didn't do much, then finally ran a time Junior year that was well clear of any of the previous confusion! Rather frustrating in hindsight. I never did take to racing with a watch, though. Dan --- Jim Gerweck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I love it when some kid who's so inculcated by the nuances of road racing reaches to hit his watch at the end of a race, and gets beat by another who ran through the finish and counted on the timers to do their job. = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Re: Oregon track website
http://libweb.uoregon.edu/exhibits/track_and_field/tf13.html There's David Mack - convicted bank-robber and the leading suspect in the murder of rapper Biggie Smalls. Historic indeed. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:42 PM To: TFMail List Subject: t-and-f: Re: Oregon track website This is a pretty neat website with various pix of historic Oregon runners: http://libweb.uoregon.edu/exhibits/track_and_field/tandf.html Richard McCann At 10:04 AM 6/19/2003 -0700, t-and-f-digest wrote.. - - Original Message - From: Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Track List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:34 AM Subject: t-and-f: Chapa protesting??? What's the deal with this pix? Was Rudy protesting something? http://libweb.uoregon.edu/exhibits/track_and_field/tf05.html
