Re: [Tagging] Tagging of movie rental kiosk

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> That must be different features (where you can buy copies of movies),
> because rental isn't covered by "vending"?


I admit that I answered this question early in the morning, before I had
enough coffee to get me going. We have dvd rental kiosks in most grocery
stores and elsewhere where you can rent a dvd/blu ray movies. My early
morning attempts at brain function thought that vending machines = dvd
rental kiosks. But apparently so do others, When you search for Redbox,
you'll find amenity=vending_machine, name=Redbox. A major dvd kiosk
operator.

But you are correct, vending would imply sale. But since we have s many
people mapping dvd kiosks as vending_machine, I'd go with them.

Clifford


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Re: [Tagging] Archway

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Il giorno 31/ago/2014, alle ore 16:56, fly  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> See also barrier=sally_port [1]


I am not sure if I understood you right here, but to me this arch is neither a 
barrier nor a Sally port.



> 
>> The key landmark might be a possibility, for example, landmark=archway?
> 
> Prefer to have it in some other name space as not all might be
> significant landmarks. Additional landmark=yes or landmark=archway might
> be ok


+1, I have in the past used for (much smaller and older) arches man_made=arch 
There are also very few historic=arch in the db (less suitable for this case I 
guess), but they get often in conflict with historic=monument (maybe better a 
monument:type or sth similar):

taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=man_made%3Darch
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/historic=arch
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/monument%3Atype

cheers,
Martin


ps: there are also the keys monument (mostly used with yes, more ambiguous) and 
monument_type (mostly used with city_gate value, only used 5 times in total, 
can be considered mistagging because city gates aren't historic=monument 
according to the osm definition of this tag: 
wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dmonument )
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Re: [Tagging] Ablution area

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Il giorno 31/ago/2014, alle ore 16:09, John Packer  
> ha scritto:
> 
> amenity=religious_ablution or similar would be better indeed.


+1, that is also my suggestion


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging of movie rental kiosk

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Il giorno 31/ago/2014, alle ore 16:16, Clifford Snow 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> According to taginfo - amenity=vending_machine. After that, vending_machine 
> gets lost in dvd, movie, DVD, etc. But with vending_machine you could add the 
> operator i.e. DvdExpress



That must be different features (where you can buy copies of movies), because 
rental isn't covered by "vending"?

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] include smoothness=* in JOSM presets?

[Andy Mabbett]

On 31 August 2014 10:50, Janko Mihelić  wrote:

> If you ask me, the table at this url:
>
> http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Key:smoothness#Smoothness
>
> defines each value pretty good.

It seems from that, that the real purpose of this tag is to record the
type of terrain of unpaved paths, tracks and trails.

Perhaps we need:

   surface=unpaved
   surface_terrain=X

where X can be smooth, rutted, impassible or whatever.



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Re: [Tagging] include smoothness=* in JOSM presets?

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 31/08/2014, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
> As somebody who participates in at least two outdoor activities in which
> road conditions are an important comfort factor* (inline skating and
> riding a road bike) it would be great to have a reasonably reliable
> indication of what to expect on a certain road segment
[...]
> However the smoothness tag does not fulfil the role

+1 to all this. I'd love to have a usable tag, but for simple issues
of physics, the best/worst smoothness depends on your mode of
transport, your skill, and the weather conditions. It's not even a
linear scale (think grip vs comfort, maneuverability, etc). As for the
wiki's "usable by" metric, I've inline-skated on much rougher surfaces
than the photos suggest... That doesn't mean I liked it.

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Re: [Tagging] Archway

[fly]

Am 30.08.2014 10:48, schrieb Dave Swarthout:
> That is an excellent question. This arch is quite large but there are
> many other similar structures in villages all over Thailand. I have seen
> many of them but have never tagged any. There is a barrier=archway used
> twice in Taginfo but the ones I've seen are not barriers in the usual
> sense of that word.

+1
See also barrier=sally_port [1]

> The key landmark might be a possibility, for example, landmark=archway?

Prefer to have it in some other name space as not all might be
significant landmarks. Additional landmark=yes or landmark=archway might
be ok

> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Mishari Muqbil  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In this photo http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/idFfQ3kADwqnRL25JEF78g
> http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/j_Uwf2UAiHjKi_ovtcu_LQ there's a
> landmark up ahead at the entrance to the housing project that resembles
> an arch. It's quite a prominent landmark in an area which is otherwise
> devoid of any distinct features. Does anyone have an idea as to how to
> tag this?

Funny, l'Arc de Triomphe [2] is only tagged with building=yes but
nothing about the archway.


cu fly

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=sally_port
[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/226413508

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Re: [Tagging] Ablution area

[Mishari Muqbil]

How about if it was amenity=ablution and religion=* or even religion=yes?

On 8/31/14 21:09, John Packer wrote:
> amenity=religious_ablution or similar would be better indeed.
> 
> 
> 2014-08-31 10:19 GMT-03:00 Dave Swarthout  >:
> 
> I don't know about that. I only wanted to point out that there are
> other usages of that word. The religious context is only one of
> several so there might be some disagreement on dedicating any future
> tags to that use. 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Stephan Knauss
> mailto:o...@stephans-server.de>> wrote:
> 
> On 31.08.2014 01 :24, André Pirard wrote:
> 
> On 2014-08-30 10:55, Dave Swarthout wrote :
> 
> FWIW, I traveled extensively in New Zealand a few years
> ago and there
> an "ablution block" (or ablution area) is a place in a
> campground
> where one washes things — dishes, clothing, etc. That
> definition of
> ablution is also a sort of "purification", I reckon.
> 
> In French, "ablution" means hygienic body washing. Misleading.
> Purification is a secondary meaning.
> 
> 
> I think the intended use is for use in a religious context.
> 
> The tag should be in a way that it's not used for dish-washing
> and ritual purification the same time.
> 
> Do you think the word is too generic? or the amenity key not
> suitable for it?
> 
> Stephan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging of movie rental kiosk

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:20 AM, Hans De Kryger 
wrote:

> Anyone know of any tag for a movie rental kiosk?


According to taginfo - amenity=vending_machine. After that, vending_machine
gets lost in dvd, movie, DVD, etc. But with vending_machine you could add
the operator i.e. DvdExpress


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Re: [Tagging] Ablution area

[John Packer]

amenity=religious_ablution or similar would be better indeed.


2014-08-31 10:19 GMT-03:00 Dave Swarthout :

> I don't know about that. I only wanted to point out that there are other
> usages of that word. The religious context is only one of several so there
> might be some disagreement on dedicating any future tags to that use.
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Stephan Knauss 
> wrote:
>
>> On 31.08.2014 01:24, André Pirard wrote:
>>
>>> On 2014-08-30 10:55, Dave Swarthout wrote :
>>>
 FWIW, I traveled extensively in New Zealand a few years ago and there
 an "ablution block" (or ablution area) is a place in a campground
 where one washes things — dishes, clothing, etc. That definition of
 ablution is also a sort of "purification", I reckon.

>>> In French, "ablution" means hygienic body washing. Misleading.
>>> Purification is a secondary meaning.
>>>
>>
>> I think the intended use is for use in a religious context.
>>
>> The tag should be in a way that it's not used for dish-washing and ritual
>> purification the same time.
>>
>> Do you think the word is too generic? or the amenity key not suitable for
>> it?
>>
>> Stephan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging of movie rental kiosk

[Andy Mabbett]

On 31 August 2014 13:20, Hans De Kryger  wrote:

> Anyone know of any tag for a movie rental kiosk?

historic= ?

;-)

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Re: [Tagging] include smoothness=* in JOSM presets?

[Andy Mabbett]

On 31 August 2014 10:50, Janko Mihelić  wrote:

> we can define them on the wiki as anything we like and
> then expect mappers to use them according to that
> definition

I'd like to see some evidence for that; or indeed that most mappers
refer to the wiki (even indirectly) at all.

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Re: [Tagging] Ablution area

[Dave Swarthout]

I don't know about that. I only wanted to point out that there are other
usages of that word. The religious context is only one of several so there
might be some disagreement on dedicating any future tags to that use.


On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Stephan Knauss 
wrote:

> On 31.08.2014 01:24, André Pirard wrote:
>
>> On 2014-08-30 10:55, Dave Swarthout wrote :
>>
>>> FWIW, I traveled extensively in New Zealand a few years ago and there
>>> an "ablution block" (or ablution area) is a place in a campground
>>> where one washes things — dishes, clothing, etc. That definition of
>>> ablution is also a sort of "purification", I reckon.
>>>
>> In French, "ablution" means hygienic body washing. Misleading.
>> Purification is a secondary meaning.
>>
>
> I think the intended use is for use in a religious context.
>
> The tag should be in a way that it's not used for dish-washing and ritual
> purification the same time.
>
> Do you think the word is too generic? or the amenity key not suitable for
> it?
>
> Stephan
>
>
>
>
>
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[Tagging] Tagging of movie rental kiosk

[Hans De Kryger]

Anyone know of any tag for a movie rental kiosk?

Regards,
Hans
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Re: [Tagging] include smoothness=* in JOSM presets?

[Simon Poole]

A last try at illustrating the insanity of the smoothness definitions.

Switzerland has an extensive network of signposted inline skating
routes, including the world longest single route at something around
400km (see http://skating.waymarkedtrails.org/en/ ). For readers that
have never used inline skates, conventional (small wheel) inline skates
are likely the means of transport which is most difficult to use on bad
road surfaces so "smoothness" could be an important criteria if a route
is usable or not.

Given that every part of say route 3 (the 400km one), which BTW only
requires a medium level of skating competence, has been many many times
used by 100s of skaters, according to the wiki definition of smoothness
every segment of the route should be tagged with smoothness=excellent.

In reality the range of surfaces on the route range from very bumpy with
some gravel to OK. If you want to use the illustrations on the wiki as a
guide: from excellent to intermediate. In the end as a consequence the
wiki definition classifies essentially all paved roads as
smoothness=excellent

Now as said: inline skates are likely the method of transport that is
most sensitive to road surfaces and as such wont collapse the smoothness
scale as much as methods of transport that are not quite so sensitive.

So lets have a look at a racing bike with skinny tires, lets say 20mm.
Even with my mediocre bike handling skills riding on anything from
excellent to horrible (again using the illustrations as a guideline) is
not a problem, that doesn't imply that you actually have to like it*.

So that collapses the smoothness scale to: excellent (all paved roads),
good (paved and unpaved roads bits that are actually not usable by
inline skates), very_horrible and impassable.

Really really not useful.

Simon

* it is just one of the things that happens if you decide to follow an
unmapped road in OSM.

Am 31.08.2014 11:50, schrieb Janko Mihelić:
> The tag smoothness is vague and subjective only if we define it as such.
> Values "excellent" and "bad" can be treated as placeholders, and we can
> define them on the wiki as anything we like and then expect mappers to
> use them according to that definition, and not solely by that one string.
> 
> If you ask me, the table at this url:
> 
> http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Key:smoothness#Smoothness
> 
> defines each value pretty good. Let's put those definitions in Josm, iD
> already has them, and we can finally start treating smoothness as a
> somewhat precise and well defined tag.
> 
> Janko
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

[Richard Z.]

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 11:40:00PM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Richard Z.  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 12:28:59PM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Maintaining both "bridge=movable" and "bridge:movable=*" has at least one
> > > useful side effect, which I documented, for bridge geeks like me (i.e.,
> > the
> > > people who are probably going to be adding hyper-complicated bridge
> > > detail); it lets you tag a formerly or planned movable span that is now
> > > fixed in place with "bridge:movable=*" but not "bridge=movable". So you
> > > could search for "bridge:movable=swing" and find both working and fixed
> > > swing spans, but a router wouldn't treat the fixed ones as movable. (See
> > > here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Big_Bayou_Canot_train_wreck for
> > the
> > > relevance of such spans.)
> >
> > This may be too subtle for many people and somewhat against the principle
> > of least surprise.
> >
> 
> Good point. I can easily see people "correcting" "bridge=yes" to
> "bridge=movable" because they see the bridge:movable tag on a span. What if
> we made "bridge=fixed" a synonym of "bridge=yes"?

coming back to this because I am now looking at adapting JOSM presets for
the current bridge definitions and there it would appear that if 
bridge=yes + bridge:movable=* were considered a valid choice the dialog would
directly offer it as first choice and 99% of contributors would accidentally 
select it in places where they actually wanted to select 
   bridge=movable+bridge:movable=*
at least I do not see how to tweak the preset otherwise.

So a better combination is required for historic movable bridges before this
gets done.

Some alternatives that already were suggested or that I came up right now:

(1) bridge=fixed + bridge:movable
(2) bridge=historic_movable + bridge:movable
(3) bridge=movable + bridge:movable + 
bridge:movable_status=operational|frequent|rare|historic|suspended

I would prefer something like (3) as it offers the possibility to additional 
information about how frequently the moving mechanism is operated.
Also there could be bridge:movable_schedule in addition to this?

Richard


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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - nudism

[Richard Z.]

On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 01:08:25AM +0200, Heiko Wöhrle wrote:

Hi,

added a table to the page, maybe this way it is easier to see
which additional cases should be added.

Richard

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Re: [Tagging] include smoothness=* in JOSM presets?

[Simon Poole]

I don't think anybody was complaining about the words used for values
per se, they will still be good for a chuckle in 20 years from now.

However the wiki definition of how the values should be determined is
simply FUBAR, and in no way "defines each value pretty good". There is
no point in repeating the discussion from the mailing lists and on the
discussion page yet another time, I would just suggest re-reading them.

Simon

Am 31.08.2014 11:50, schrieb Janko Mihelić:
> The tag smoothness is vague and subjective only if we define it as such.
> Values "excellent" and "bad" can be treated as placeholders, and we can
> define them on the wiki as anything we like and then expect mappers to
> use them according to that definition, and not solely by that one string.
> 
> If you ask me, the table at this url:
> 
> http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Key:smoothness#Smoothness
> 
> defines each value pretty good. Let's put those definitions in Josm, iD
> already has them, and we can finally start treating smoothness as a
> somewhat precise and well defined tag.
> 
> Janko
> 
> 
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Re: [Tagging] include smoothness=* in JOSM presets?

[Janko Mihelić]

The tag smoothness is vague and subjective only if we define it as such.
Values "excellent" and "bad" can be treated as placeholders, and we can
define them on the wiki as anything we like and then expect mappers to use
them according to that definition, and not solely by that one string.

If you ask me, the table at this url:

http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Key:smoothness#Smoothness

defines each value pretty good. Let's put those definitions in Josm, iD
already has them, and we can finally start treating smoothness as a
somewhat precise and well defined tag.

Janko
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Re: [Tagging] include smoothness=* in JOSM presets?

[Paul Hartmann]

On 31.08.2014 08:28, Simon Poole wrote:

At best the extreme values are meaningful and I would suggest that the
value space at least be reduced (something along the lines of good, bad,
impassable) in any preset.


You may be right in principle, but I feel it is not our job to make such 
a drastic simplification to a (more or less) established tagging 
feature. If this is done, you can expect a spike in these 3 values on 
taginfo and anyone who deliberately tagged good before (and not 
intermediate or excellent) will have their precise data watered down. 
It's more like take it or leave it.


Thanks for the answers so far, my impression is that the majority would 
like to see this as a preset in JOSM.


Paul

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Re: [Tagging] Ablution area

[Stephan Knauss]

On 31.08.2014 01:24, André Pirard wrote:

On 2014-08-30 10:55, Dave Swarthout wrote :

FWIW, I traveled extensively in New Zealand a few years ago and there
an "ablution block" (or ablution area) is a place in a campground
where one washes things — dishes, clothing, etc. That definition of
ablution is also a sort of "purification", I reckon.

In French, "ablution" means hygienic body washing. Misleading.
Purification is a secondary meaning.


I think the intended use is for use in a religious context.

The tag should be in a way that it's not used for dish-washing and 
ritual purification the same time.


Do you think the word is too generic? or the amenity key not suitable 
for it?


Stephan




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