Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Erkin Alp Güney]

That school is non-religious for OSM tagging purposes.


19-11-2017 01:31 tarihinde José G Moya Y. yazdı:
> Also, a note about
> optional  religion =*
>
> In Spain the government pays some religious institutions for giving
> educational services to people for free. 
> This leads to strange situations like islamic people bringing their
> daughters to a school ruled by catholic nuns and requiring the girls
> to study a non-religious curriculum.and even allowing girls wear a
> /hijab/. Should we tag these schools as "religion=catholic" or leave
> it blank?
>  
> Regards. 
>
>
> 2017-11-18 19:06 GMT+01:00 Erkin Alp Güney  >:
>
> This version is considered for voting:
>
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative
> 
> 
>
>
Yours, faithfully
Erkin Alp


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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Erkin Alp Güney]

You have conflated test centers and specialty schools. Test centers, as
in my proposal, focus exclusively on _performing_ the standardised
tests. I do not know where in the world we have these, but we have a
government-operated one in Ankara, Turkey (ÖSYM computer-based
examination building). Cram schools, on the other hand, cram something
or prepare for an exam without having an academic objective otherwise.
Specialty schools are what the name says.


19-11-2017 01:52 tarihinde Steve Doerr yazdı:
> On 18/11/2017 22:31, José G Moya Y. wrote:
>> The proposal says:
>>
>> education=testcenter -
>>
>
> If it does, then it needs to be adapted to the convention of using
> British English spelling: the 'center' bit should be 'centre'. And I
> can't imagine anyone in the UK writing 'testcentre' as a single word.
> I think it would normally be 'test centre', so the tag value should be
> test_centre.
>
> -- 
> Steve
>
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Re: [Tagging] opening_hours for public transport routes?

[Paul Johnson]

Also please call me out if I am wrong, particularly if it is actually
possible to change lines before 10AM or after 4PM any day of the week,
which it really wasn't even back then.  You were basically screwed if you
tried to catch the 20 Burnside or 62 Murray after dark or before sunrise as
recently as a year ago, so even then I wouldn't have called the station as
being fully open after about 3:30PM or before about 9:00AM despite being a
major transfer point.  Bump it about 15 minutes earlier and later for
Beaverton Transit Center, having lines serve it later and earlier largely
out of being more remote yet closer to the Elmonica depot.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:

> I agree.  The opening hours for Sunset Transit Center in Portland are 45
> minutes before the first departure to 90 minutes after the last arrival,
> IIRC.  Effectively, this averages out to 21 hours per day on most days, but
> this isn't clear to non locals, and now that I'm not local to TriMet, I
> have no idea what this translates to in reality now.  For all I know, based
> on the red/blue timetable I'm aware of from 10 years ago, this is 5:15AM to
> 9:17PM M-Th, 5:15 AM to 11:17PM Fridays, and 5:15AM to 12:15AM Saturday,
> and 6:30AM to 10PM Sundays unless things have changed (and in all
> probability they have, and my opening times are very early and my closing
> times very late, given TriMet's schedule adjustments over time).
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 6:51 PM, Albert Pundt 
> wrote:
>
>> Is it common practice to represent the starts/ends of public transport
>> route schedules with the opening_hours tag? For example, Red Rose Transit
>> Route 1 in Lancaster, PA uses this
>> 
>> schedule. The leg going out to Park City Mall only starts on weekdays at
>> 6:50; in the 45 mins before then, the bus just turns around on a different
>> street back toward downtown. I would guess that the best way to map this
>> would be have two route variants with the appropriate opening_hours tag,
>> which are united by a route_master relation.
>>
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>>
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Re: [Tagging] opening_hours for public transport routes?

[Paul Johnson]

I agree.  The opening hours for Sunset Transit Center in Portland are 45
minutes before the first departure to 90 minutes after the last arrival,
IIRC.  Effectively, this averages out to 21 hours per day on most days, but
this isn't clear to non locals, and now that I'm not local to TriMet, I
have no idea what this translates to in reality now.  For all I know, based
on the red/blue timetable I'm aware of from 10 years ago, this is 5:15AM to
9:17PM M-Th, 5:15 AM to 11:17PM Fridays, and 5:15AM to 12:15AM Saturday,
and 6:30AM to 10PM Sundays unless things have changed (and in all
probability they have, and my opening times are very early and my closing
times very late, given TriMet's schedule adjustments over time).

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 6:51 PM, Albert Pundt  wrote:

> Is it common practice to represent the starts/ends of public transport
> route schedules with the opening_hours tag? For example, Red Rose Transit
> Route 1 in Lancaster, PA uses this
> 
> schedule. The leg going out to Park City Mall only starts on weekdays at
> 6:50; in the 45 mins before then, the bus just turns around on a different
> street back toward downtown. I would guess that the best way to map this
> would be have two route variants with the appropriate opening_hours tag,
> which are united by a route_master relation.
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Metro Mapping

[marc marc]

Le 18. 11. 17 à 21:50, Ilya Zverev a écrit :
> marc marc wrote:
>> what do you think of the different issues raised? whether your 
>> proposal is adopted or rejected, it will be difficult to implement. 
>> Would it not be better to cancel the current vote in order to improve 
>> the proposal with the problems raised ?
> Did you read the Talk page?
yes, as already said in my previous reply.
it gives the impression that you consider negative opinions as coming 
from people unable to read, instead of trying to use usefully the 
criticism that people make.

> I believe I answered all the issues, 

none of the issue I pointed out is solved.

> What happens if we approve an imperfect proposal?

At best, this will produce a third version of the PT, in addition
to the current v1 and v2. The use of the data will not be easier
At worst, there will be ping pong between v2 and yours since each
of the 2 versions solves some of the problems that the other does
not solve.
this is what I fear when I see that the community is divided once more 
even though the migration v1->v2 is very partial, some believe that it 
is due to a lack of quality in the details of the v2.
I'm saddened to see the mistake repeated.

Regards,
Marc
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Steve Doerr]

On 18/11/2017 22:31, José G Moya Y. wrote:

The proposal says:

education=testcenter -



If it does, then it needs to be adapted to the convention of using 
British English spelling: the 'center' bit should be 'centre'. And I 
can't imagine anyone in the UK writing 'testcentre' as a single word. I 
think it would normally be 'test centre', so the tag value should be 
test_centre.


--
Steve


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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Simon Poole]

You numbers look slightly off, wit:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=childcare


Am 18.11.2017 um 19:05 schrieb Erkin Alp Güney:
> I am offering this proposal into voting as no replies arrived since last
> month.
>
> Yours, faithfully
> Erkin Alp
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Yes, I agree, good idea

Thanks

Graeme

On 19 November 2017 at 08:31, José G Moya Y.  wrote:

> I will vote +1 because I liked your proposal in September
>
> But please refresh me, what's the difference between testcenter and
> cram-school? I only remember cram-school in your proposal this September.
>
> The proposal says:
>
> education=testcenter -  Specialty schools including exam preparation
>> schools, fine arts schools, crafts schools or language schools but
>> excluding crammers
>> education=cram-school - Cram schools, cram schools may be rendered
>> differently from academic schools
>
>
> But "exam preparation" is what crammers do, don't they?
>
> Also, a note about
> optional religion =*
> In Spain the government pays some religious institutions for giving
> educational services to people for free.
> This leads to strange situations like islamic people bringing their
> daughters to a school ruled by catholic nuns and requiring the girls to
> study a non-religious curriculum.and even allowing girls wear a *hijab*.
> Should we tag these schools as "religion=catholic" or leave it blank?
>
> Regards.
>
>
> 2017-11-18 19:06 GMT+01:00 Erkin Alp Güney :
>
>> This version is considered for voting:
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Educat
>> ion_Reform_Alternative
>>
>>
>> 18-11-2017 21:05 tarihinde Erkin Alp Güney yazdı:
>> > I am offering this proposal into voting as no replies arrived since last
>> > month.
>> >
>> > Yours, faithfully
>> > Erkin Alp
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[José G Moya Y .]

I will vote +1 because I liked your proposal in September

But please refresh me, what's the difference between testcenter and
cram-school? I only remember cram-school in your proposal this September.

The proposal says:

education=testcenter -  Specialty schools including exam preparation
> schools, fine arts schools, crafts schools or language schools but
> excluding crammers
> education=cram-school - Cram schools, cram schools may be rendered
> differently from academic schools


But "exam preparation" is what crammers do, don't they?

Also, a note about
optional religion =*
In Spain the government pays some religious institutions for giving
educational services to people for free.
This leads to strange situations like islamic people bringing their
daughters to a school ruled by catholic nuns and requiring the girls to
study a non-religious curriculum.and even allowing girls wear a *hijab*.
Should we tag these schools as "religion=catholic" or leave it blank?

Regards.


2017-11-18 19:06 GMT+01:00 Erkin Alp Güney :

> This version is considered for voting:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/
> Education_Reform_Alternative
>
>
> 18-11-2017 21:05 tarihinde Erkin Alp Güney yazdı:
> > I am offering this proposal into voting as no replies arrived since last
> > month.
> >
> > Yours, faithfully
> > Erkin Alp
> >
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] tower types, cooling towers, etc.

[Mark Bradley]

> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:30:06 +0100
> From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>   
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] tower types, cooling towers, etc.
> Message-ID:
>    il.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 2017-11-17 17:22 GMT+01:00 Mark Bradley :
> 
> > You know, after giving it some more thought, I'm not sure what I think.
> > Forget I said it.
> 
> 
> 
> I've also been re-thinking about it, and maybe the best is to abandon
> man_made=tower for everything that can be better described with a more 
> specific
> tag, e.g. man_made=water_tower (established), lighthouse (established),
> communications_tower (established), cooling_tower (deprecated but used 400
> times), watchtower (not used, but watch_tower has
> 3 occurences), etc.
> 
> I'm setting up a proposal,
> 
> Cheers,
> Martin
>


Thanks for the proposal, and I look forward to it.  Hopefully it will lead to 
some clarification.

Mark
 



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Metro Mapping

[Yves]

Le 18 novembre 2017 21:50:10 GMT+01:00, Ilya Zverev  a écrit :
>What happens if 
>we approve an imperfect proposal?
>
>Ilya
>
I guess there always will be enough people to to reject it. The proposal 
process is probably unable to get big proposals on common features to pass. 
I like the way this starts on another thread about education : a proposal to 
vote on the idea of a proposal. 
Yves 

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Metro Mapping

[Ilya Zverev]

marc marc wrote:
what do you think of the different issues raised? whether your proposal 
is adopted or rejected, it will be difficult to implement. Would it not 
be better to cancel the current vote in order to improve the proposal 
with the problems raised ?


Did you read the Talk page? I believe I answered all the issues, 
altering the proposal in requested ways. Most if not all things people 
have written here and on the page after the voting started have been 
addressed before — if only people read the proposal.


I discussed the proposal with many people over six weeks, putting may 
hours in that. I mentioned the proposal at least two times before. Are 
you suggesting that is not enough? How much is enough? What happens if 
we approve an imperfect proposal?


Ilya

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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposals - Voting - Magnetic levitation trains

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Looking at the current and former maglev railways I've found there are
already other tags in use:
railway=monorail
and sometimes with the subtag
monorail=maglev

e.g. the parts of this:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7029349

and here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/443258

Not sure if they are documented, if not it could make sense to adapt your
proposal or add the docu directly to the wiki.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Erkin Alp Güney]

This version is considered for voting:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative


18-11-2017 21:05 tarihinde Erkin Alp Güney yazdı:
> I am offering this proposal into voting as no replies arrived since last
> month.
>
> Yours, faithfully
> Erkin Alp
>


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[Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Erkin Alp Güney]

I am offering this proposal into voting as no replies arrived since last
month.

Yours, faithfully
Erkin Alp


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[Tagging] Feature proposals - Voting - Magnetic levitation trains

[Erkin Alp Güney]

There was only one vote, which was mine. I request a vote extension.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Magnetic_levitaiton_train

Yours,
Erkin Alp


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Metro Mapping

[marc marc]

Hello,

Le 18. 11. 17 à 14:32, Ilya Zverev a écrit :
> not on the quality of the proposal

what do you think of the different issues raised? whether your proposal 
is adopted or rejected, it will be difficult to implement. Would it not 
be better to cancel the current vote in order to improve the proposal 
with the problems raised ?

Regards,
Marc
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Re: [Tagging] Keep tagging mistakes documented in Wiki?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 18. Nov 2017, at 11:44, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:
> 
> IMHO, such a section is useful not only to reduce the misspelling, but also 
> prevent new entries with the wrong tag.


+1 for keeping hints about typical misspellings. Why are you asking?

Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Metro Mapping

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

I'd like to remind you to read the Metro Mapping proposal and to leave 
your verdict in the Voting section. There is a week left until the 
voting is closed.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Metro_Mapping

There are a few votes that are obviously based on authority, not on the 
quality of the proposal. It greatly saddens me, that the work doesn't 
matter before the name. I have written a few words about that, but if 
you like reading, then please proceed to the proposal and its Talk page 
instead, they have much more useful information.


http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Zverik/diary/42742

Sorry if I have offended any of you, I did not mean to,
Ilya

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Re: [Tagging] opening_hours for public transport routes?

[Éric Gillet]

2017-11-13 1:51 GMT+01:00 Albert Pundt :

> Is it common practice to represent the starts/ends of public transport
> route schedules with the opening_hours tag? For example, Red Rose Transit
> Route 1 in Lancaster, PA uses this
> 
> schedule. The leg going out to Park City Mall only starts on weekdays at
> 6:50; in the 45 mins before then, the bus just turns around on a different
> street back toward downtown. I would guess that the best way to map this
> would be have two route variants with the appropriate opening_hours tag,
> which are united by a route_master relation.
>

I agree.
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[Tagging] Keep tagging mistakes documented in Wiki?

[Tom Pfeifer]

What do you think, should typical misspellings and deprecated tagging continue to be documented on 
the respective Wiki pages, or should they be removed once they do not appear in the OSM database any 
more?


IMHO, such a section is useful not only to reduce the misspelling, but also prevent new entries with 
the wrong tag.


See the dispute in shop=clothes for example, with the synonyms =cloth and =clothing, both are values 
that occasional re-appear with freehand tagging.


tom

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