Re: [Tagging] Rethinking Map Features
Requiring postal codes on addresses makes no sense even in countries that use ZIP codes. When I walk down a street collecting house numbers I have no indication of the ZIP code of each building. If you require ZIP codes then I am forced into an import situation rather than a field survey. Cheers! Tod On August 6, 2019 3:10:44 AM UTC, Marc Gemis wrote: >and what if I do not agree with the English text. I saw the example >for addr:street in your movie. >The description now says you have to add addr:postal_code. This is not >true for countries whare postal code boundaries are mapped. I do agree >that this is needed in countries that use ZIP codes though. How do we >solve such issues (before they get translated in too many languagues) >? > >regards > >m. > >On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 4:00 PM Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: >> >> Thanks, I've got it now. >> >> The problem with the wikibase data item "labels": if you go to add >the >> description in another language for a recently created wiki page, the >> top left of the page has a very large, gray text heading like "No >> Label Defined" (but in Indonesian, or Spanish, etc), which suggests >> that something is missing. >> >> I suspect this happens because the English "label" field may not have >> been created in the data item? >> >> Also, when adding the description, the next field to the left is the >> blank label field, with grayed-out text "No Label Found". It's quite >> tempting to fill this in. Do we really want wiki users to feel they >> should add translations for the "key" and "value" of each tag? >> >> On 8/5/19, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: >> > Joseph, you don't need to use preferences - just click the language >> > switcher at the very top of the page, and you only need to switch >to >> > Indonesian and back once -- the interface will always offer both >choices to >> > fill out. Please see the video, and let me know if what you see is >> > different. You might be using mobile version of the site? >> > >> > Filling it out labels in every language is a bit silly - there are >> > thousands of languages, why would we want to store identical >information in >> > every one of them, when the system automatically does fallback to >English? >> > I could create some sort of a javascript gadget that hides the >label column >> > when the item type is a key/value/relation/relation role >(multilingual >> > labels are still useful for other item types), but some people have >already >> > added some alternative language-specific labels, essentially >localizing >> > keys - not sure if we should just hide those. BTW, if anyone wants >to hack >> > on it (I'm looking at you Minh :)), it would be awesome! Or at >least we >> > should maybe give a warning when user tries to add a label >identical to >> > English? >> > >> > Every wiki page, including the data items have a "history" tab at >the top >> > that will show every edit done to that page. >> > >> > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Thanks, yes, changing the language under “preferences” for the >wiki >> >> works, >> >> though it’s a little annoying. >> >> >> >> You should set the label field for all languages to the key=value >or >> >> remove this field and display the key=value at the top of the page >> >> anyway. >> >> It’s quite distracting Now. >> >> >> >> Is there a way to see the wikibase data item history? One big >concern I >> >> have is that it won’t be easy to see when something is changed. >Can you >> >> get >> >> notified if someone changes a description? >> >> >> >> Joseph >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:05 AM Yuri Astrakhan > >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> P.S. I made a short video on how to add descriptions and >translations >> >>> >> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1NDD4MtC4 >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:56 AM Yuri Astrakhan > >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> Joseph, before you click "edit description", change your >language at >> the >> top of the wiki page (make sure you are logged in. Also, if you >change >> the >> language a few times to the ones you know, e.g. to Indonesian, >to >> Spanish, >> and then to English, I think interface will always offer you to >enter >> description in the last few you had picked. >> >> Thanks for adding translations! >> >> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Joseph Eisenberg < >> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > You're right, I was a little confused. Almost all the features >on Map >> > Features have a wiki page (and those that don't should get a >page or >> > more likely be removed), so I understand that they have an OSM >> > wikibase entry, now, and creating the data item isn't an issue. >> > >> > But I still can't figure out how to add description in another >> > language? >> > >> > I tried to get the Indonesian translation by: >> > 1) Open the English wiki page (eg from the link on Map Features >in >>
Re: [Tagging] Rethinking Map Features
and what if I do not agree with the English text. I saw the example for addr:street in your movie. The description now says you have to add addr:postal_code. This is not true for countries whare postal code boundaries are mapped. I do agree that this is needed in countries that use ZIP codes though. How do we solve such issues (before they get translated in too many languagues) ? regards m. On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 4:00 PM Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > Thanks, I've got it now. > > The problem with the wikibase data item "labels": if you go to add the > description in another language for a recently created wiki page, the > top left of the page has a very large, gray text heading like "No > Label Defined" (but in Indonesian, or Spanish, etc), which suggests > that something is missing. > > I suspect this happens because the English "label" field may not have > been created in the data item? > > Also, when adding the description, the next field to the left is the > blank label field, with grayed-out text "No Label Found". It's quite > tempting to fill this in. Do we really want wiki users to feel they > should add translations for the "key" and "value" of each tag? > > On 8/5/19, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > > Joseph, you don't need to use preferences - just click the language > > switcher at the very top of the page, and you only need to switch to > > Indonesian and back once -- the interface will always offer both choices to > > fill out. Please see the video, and let me know if what you see is > > different. You might be using mobile version of the site? > > > > Filling it out labels in every language is a bit silly - there are > > thousands of languages, why would we want to store identical information in > > every one of them, when the system automatically does fallback to English? > > I could create some sort of a javascript gadget that hides the label column > > when the item type is a key/value/relation/relation role (multilingual > > labels are still useful for other item types), but some people have already > > added some alternative language-specific labels, essentially localizing > > keys - not sure if we should just hide those. BTW, if anyone wants to hack > > on it (I'm looking at you Minh :)), it would be awesome! Or at least we > > should maybe give a warning when user tries to add a label identical to > > English? > > > > Every wiki page, including the data items have a "history" tab at the top > > that will show every edit done to that page. > > > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg > > > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks, yes, changing the language under “preferences” for the wiki > >> works, > >> though it’s a little annoying. > >> > >> You should set the label field for all languages to the key=value or > >> remove this field and display the key=value at the top of the page > >> anyway. > >> It’s quite distracting Now. > >> > >> Is there a way to see the wikibase data item history? One big concern I > >> have is that it won’t be easy to see when something is changed. Can you > >> get > >> notified if someone changes a description? > >> > >> Joseph > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:05 AM Yuri Astrakhan > >> wrote: > >> > >>> P.S. I made a short video on how to add descriptions and translations > >>> > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1NDD4MtC4 > >>> > >>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:56 AM Yuri Astrakhan > >>> wrote: > >>> > Joseph, before you click "edit description", change your language at > the > top of the wiki page (make sure you are logged in. Also, if you change > the > language a few times to the ones you know, e.g. to Indonesian, to > Spanish, > and then to English, I think interface will always offer you to enter > description in the last few you had picked. > > Thanks for adding translations! > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Joseph Eisenberg < > joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > You're right, I was a little confused. Almost all the features on Map > > Features have a wiki page (and those that don't should get a page or > > more likely be removed), so I understand that they have an OSM > > wikibase entry, now, and creating the data item isn't an issue. > > > > But I still can't figure out how to add description in another > > language? > > > > I tried to get the Indonesian translation by: > > 1) Open the English wiki page (eg from the link on Map Features in > > this > > case) > > 2) Click on the little pencil to edit the OSM wikibase data item > > (which I can't see, because I have images disabled, but I just hunt > > around...) > > 3) Click on "edit" next to description > > 4) Click "all entered languages" - wait, how do I add Indonesian? > > ? > > > > Maybe I don't see Indonesian because I'm using a satellite internet > > connection from Australia and I haven't edited Indonesian before. I > > try
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of bullrings
On 06/08/19 09:19, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 6. Aug 2019, at 00:20, dcapillae wrote: Um, I don't think anyone in Spain would try to adapt a generic stadium as a bullring. what I meant was that there will probably be a dedicated area for the bulls and their preparation (behind the curtain) and entry into the arena, so the stadiums will likely be specialized stadiums for bullfighting, probably a specific building type (or stadium subtype, according to your point of view) to satisfy the specific requirements. Most stadiums have specialised features for the sports and other events held there. If necessary stadium=bullfighting;soccer;rugby;cricket could be used. The spectator areas would be very similar so the easily observed features would match from one stadium to another. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of bullrings
sent from a phone > On 6. Aug 2019, at 00:20, dcapillae wrote: > > Um, I don't think anyone in Spain would try to adapt a generic stadium as a > bullring. what I meant was that there will probably be a dedicated area for the bulls and their preparation (behind the curtain) and entry into the arena, so the stadiums will likely be specialized stadiums for bullfighting, probably a specific building type (or stadium subtype, according to your point of view) to satisfy the specific requirements. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of bullrings
Hi, Martin.
dieterdreist wrote
> the question is also how suitable a generic stadium would be for
> bullfighting.
Um, I don't think anyone in Spain would try to adapt a generic stadium as a
bullring. But not because it's difficult, but because bullfights are not as
popular as football, for example. No one would try to adapt a football
stadium If you have a bullring nearby.
It probably wouldn't be difficult to adapt if necessary. We'd need a pitch
("ruedo"). The "ruedos" are easy to build. There are many in the region of
Spain where I live. They are very simple: a solid wooden fence and sand.
In any case, we're talking about things I don't know very well. I don't know
much about adapting stadiums. I don't know much about bullfighting either.
It's easier to map a bullring in OSM than to build a stadium. That's sure!
:D
Thank you for commenting.
Regards,
Daniel
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Re: [Tagging] Road hierarchy
R - unclassified A - unclassified B - track C - residential On 8/4/19 3:46 AM, Tomas Straupis wrote: All right, let's make it more detailed and more extended. R R RAAA R A R R R R Now A and C are ways leading into the inner territory of residential building(s). But A has another important road B getting out of it, and C does not. Which means A has through traffic while C does not. But all of them are very minor ways visible as two tracks on the ground. Way C is used say twice in a week. Now I would like to skip road C at small scale, but leave A, because I want to leave B. Can we agree on some scheme to tag this (do data augmentation), so that less people doing cartography stuff have to resort to heavy generalisation operation such as road pruning? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Road hierarchy
>Different places, different practices. In the rural areas near here, a great many private service ways have names, so that the houses on them will have street >addresses for emergency services to find. Often the name is something like 'Smith Road' because it goes into the Smith family farm. It's just a highway=service >or highway=track access=private, but is named and signed for navigation. That same practice is fairly common in Alaska as well. Tiger often classes these as residentials but like all Tiger data, it must be verified before you can believe it LOL On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 11:11 AM Kevin Kenny wrote: > On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:07 AM Florian Lohoff wrote: > >> Correct - But from my experience its either a service or it has >> a name. At least in the part of Germany where i map. >> >> There are of course the 1% of exceptions where Bayer or BASF names roads >> on their facility property. But the typical parking aisle or >> access to a fuel station should not carry a name. >> >> > Different places, different practices. In the rural areas near here, a > great many private service ways have names, so that the houses on them will > have street addresses for emergency services to find. Often the name is > something like 'Smith Road' because it goes into the Smith family farm. > It's just a highway=service or highway=track access=private, but is named > and signed for navigation. > > I agree that a parking aisle or urban driveway is unlikely to have a name. > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Was public_transport=platform intended to always be combined with highway=bus_stop?
On Mon, 2019-08-05 at 00:51 +0200, Janko Mihelić wrote: > And nothing renders anyway. So why don't we just start using other > public_transport values, like pole, waiting_area, and whatever we > want. We just start using them, and give them the "platform" role in > the relations. Rendering will come. Eh? What do you mean nothing renders? Everything that needs to render already does so, e.g. hw=bus_stop and hw=platform. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Road hierarchy
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:07 AM Florian Lohoff wrote: > Correct - But from my experience its either a service or it has > a name. At least in the part of Germany where i map. > > There are of course the 1% of exceptions where Bayer or BASF names roads > on their facility property. But the typical parking aisle or > access to a fuel station should not carry a name. > > Different places, different practices. In the rural areas near here, a great many private service ways have names, so that the houses on them will have street addresses for emergency services to find. Often the name is something like 'Smith Road' because it goes into the Smith family farm. It's just a highway=service or highway=track access=private, but is named and signed for navigation. I agree that a parking aisle or urban driveway is unlikely to have a name. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Rethinking Map Features
Thanks, I've got it now. The problem with the wikibase data item "labels": if you go to add the description in another language for a recently created wiki page, the top left of the page has a very large, gray text heading like "No Label Defined" (but in Indonesian, or Spanish, etc), which suggests that something is missing. I suspect this happens because the English "label" field may not have been created in the data item? Also, when adding the description, the next field to the left is the blank label field, with grayed-out text "No Label Found". It's quite tempting to fill this in. Do we really want wiki users to feel they should add translations for the "key" and "value" of each tag? On 8/5/19, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > Joseph, you don't need to use preferences - just click the language > switcher at the very top of the page, and you only need to switch to > Indonesian and back once -- the interface will always offer both choices to > fill out. Please see the video, and let me know if what you see is > different. You might be using mobile version of the site? > > Filling it out labels in every language is a bit silly - there are > thousands of languages, why would we want to store identical information in > every one of them, when the system automatically does fallback to English? > I could create some sort of a javascript gadget that hides the label column > when the item type is a key/value/relation/relation role (multilingual > labels are still useful for other item types), but some people have already > added some alternative language-specific labels, essentially localizing > keys - not sure if we should just hide those. BTW, if anyone wants to hack > on it (I'm looking at you Minh :)), it would be awesome! Or at least we > should maybe give a warning when user tries to add a label identical to > English? > > Every wiki page, including the data items have a "history" tab at the top > that will show every edit done to that page. > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg > > wrote: > >> Thanks, yes, changing the language under “preferences” for the wiki >> works, >> though it’s a little annoying. >> >> You should set the label field for all languages to the key=value or >> remove this field and display the key=value at the top of the page >> anyway. >> It’s quite distracting Now. >> >> Is there a way to see the wikibase data item history? One big concern I >> have is that it won’t be easy to see when something is changed. Can you >> get >> notified if someone changes a description? >> >> Joseph >> >> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:05 AM Yuri Astrakhan >> wrote: >> >>> P.S. I made a short video on how to add descriptions and translations >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1NDD4MtC4 >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:56 AM Yuri Astrakhan >>> wrote: >>> Joseph, before you click "edit description", change your language at the top of the wiki page (make sure you are logged in. Also, if you change the language a few times to the ones you know, e.g. to Indonesian, to Spanish, and then to English, I think interface will always offer you to enter description in the last few you had picked. Thanks for adding translations! On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Joseph Eisenberg < joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > You're right, I was a little confused. Almost all the features on Map > Features have a wiki page (and those that don't should get a page or > more likely be removed), so I understand that they have an OSM > wikibase entry, now, and creating the data item isn't an issue. > > But I still can't figure out how to add description in another > language? > > I tried to get the Indonesian translation by: > 1) Open the English wiki page (eg from the link on Map Features in > this > case) > 2) Click on the little pencil to edit the OSM wikibase data item > (which I can't see, because I have images disabled, but I just hunt > around...) > 3) Click on "edit" next to description > 4) Click "all entered languages" - wait, how do I add Indonesian? > ? > > Maybe I don't see Indonesian because I'm using a satellite internet > connection from Australia and I haven't edited Indonesian before. I > try clicking on "Configure" next to "In more languages" > > I don't see Indonesian there either. So perhaps I have to make a new > wikibase entry for my language? Unfortunately I don't see a link to > make a new wikibase item. > > Ok, let's try again with Spanish (Español), that's on the list... > > I still can't figure it out. How do I add a description in another > language? > > Fortunately I can just make a stub wiki page by: > > 1) Open the English language page > 2) Click on edit > 3) Copy the url, add "id:" in front of the page name > 4) Copy and paste the ValueDescription /
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of State Parks in the US
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:32 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > All looks OK at first glance, Kev, except for one minor typo - you've got two > Class 25's - I assume Historic should actually be 26? Typo corrected, and further notes about class 26 added. (I can't *quite* count all the instances of class 26 on my own fingers and toes, but I think I've looked at all of them, and as I note, they all appear to be mistakes under the confusing definition on the Wiki.) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of State Parks in the US
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 13:41, Kevin Kenny wrote: [Class 26] > I have no good examples to offer. Me neither. But I can't say no such objects exist. It could happen that some place becomes a protected area because it was once occupied by colonialists, but even then I'd expect it to fall into another category like national park. Since whoever created the page appears to have made the classes beyond 6 out of whole cloth, it's really hard to figure out. Ah, that explains why the classes beyond 6 seemed weird to me. > I was hoping that there might be insight to be gained on this list. > How long have you been here? :) Unless whoever added those classes is reading this list and feels like speaking up, we may never know what was intended. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of State Parks in the US
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 6:58 AM Paul Allen wrote: > On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 05:24, Kevin Kenny wrote: > Class 26 appears to encompass two things. Colonial-era entities, if purely > historic, shouldn't concern us. OTOH, if they are a protected area by virtue > of once being colonial-era entities then they do. Protectorates (where > they still exist) do concern us, but might be better handled as military > areas or under the proposal that seems to have stalled about country > boundaries. OTOH, we have (for example) the British military enclaves of > Akrotiri and Dhekelia in Cyprus - if you squint hard enough they are > "protected areas." I have no good examples to offer. Overpass finds only 22 such objects. All appear to be ordinary historic sites, some of which happen to date back to one or another colonial era. Since whoever created the page appears to have made the classes beyond 6 out of whole cloth, it's really hard to figure out. I was hoping that there might be insight to be gained on this list. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Multiple values in isced:level
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 04:09, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > And if you read the wiki you can add another 3 opinions to that. > I just edited the wiki. Make that four. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of State Parks in the US
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 05:24, Kevin Kenny wrote: > > I had earnestly hoped to avoid the pain of coming up with a tagging > proposal I'm sorry to have been amongst those who caused you that pain. > Suggestions are, of course, welcome, bearing in mind the above caveats. > Class 26 appears to encompass two things. Colonial-era entities, if purely historic, shouldn't concern us. OTOH, if they are a protected area by virtue of once being colonial-era entities then they do. Protectorates (where they still exist) do concern us, but might be better handled as military areas or under the proposal that seems to have stalled about country boundaries. OTOH, we have (for example) the British military enclaves of Akrotiri and Dhekelia in Cyprus - if you squint hard enough they are "protected areas." -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Road hierarchy
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 06:26, Florian Lohoff wrote: > On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 12:30:48AM +0100, Paul Allen wrote: > > > I just reverted it. And added some clarification (some may disagree and > > think I've murkified it) > > based on why I think those words were removed back in February. Feel > free > > to fix my fixes. > > Your statement added: > > "but which are not normally used as through routes (which would > usually be > classified highways or unclassified highways)." > Indeed it did. > > I disagree on this. I dont think we have consensus that residential > are not for through traffic. Our routers/navigators dont treat it like > that. And if we assume so there is a HUGE difference in unclassified and > residential we dont actually yet have. > If I look at my town, there are several roads which are officially-designated tertiary routes for through traffic which have houses all along them. Because they are officially-designated tertiary routes it is sensible to mark them as such and not as residential roads. Other roads in town with houses along them are not officially-designated tertiary routes. Sometimes, such as road re-surfacing or the annual fair, an officially-designated tertiary route may be closed off and traffic diverted through the residential roads. But those diversions are longer routes and involve three extra right-angle (or nearly so) turns. > > And its not the claim which has been removed in February. > > "but which are not a classified or unclassified highways." > > This is a statement which unclassified carries aswell: > Did you look at the comment he/she left about the reason for the change? That person interpreted "unclassified" in its common sense and not in the UK road system/OSM sense. To that person, "residential" is a classification and therefore cannot be unclassified. In OSM "unclassified" means a quaternary route which many of us interpret as not being a residential road. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Road hierarchy
On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 05:53:10PM +1000, Warin wrote: > On 05/08/19 16:32, Peter Elderson wrote: > > At the moment, 'unclassified' has so many different opinions that it > > means nothing at all. Could we at least agree on the basics: > > > > A. "unclassified" means you don't know the class; > No. The tag highway=road says that the class is unknown. +1 ael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Road hierarchy
I would recommend that the wiki reference the UK road classification scheme so those who want to can delve into the classification scheme OSM uses. Example: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/315783/road-classification-guidance.pdf "Unclassified Road –fourth and lowest class of classified road in the classification system. If not stated otherwise, roads are assumed to be unclassified. No number is officially associated with an unclassified road, although the local highway authority is entitled to develop its own methods to identify it." Local country note on translating OSMs road classification scheme should go on a local guide - not on the main wiki. On 05/08/19 15:25, Florian Lohoff wrote: On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 12:30:48AM +0100, Paul Allen wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 00:12, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I just reverted it. And added some clarification (some may disagree and think I've murkified it) based on why I think those words were removed back in February. Feel free to fix my fixes. Your statement added: "but which are not normally used as through routes (which would usually be classified highways or unclassified highways)." I disagree on this. I dont think we have consensus that residential are not for through traffic. Our routers/navigators dont treat it like that. And if we assume so there is a HUGE difference in unclassified and residential we dont actually yet have. And its not the claim which has been removed in February. "but which are not a classified or unclassified highways." This is a statement which unclassified carries aswell: In short, when other highway=* tags are more applicable, use those instead. If a public road is of lesser importance than what's called a highway=tertiary in your region, and is also not a highway=residential, a highway=service, or a highway=track, then it's probably an unclassified road." So the statement removed in February is a "NOOP" statement. Saying "you cant be A if you are B" Now you changed it to something completely different with additional claims. Flo ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Road hierarchy
On 05/08/19 16:32, Peter Elderson wrote: At the moment, 'unclassified' has so many different opinions that it means nothing at all. Could we at least agree on the basics: A. "unclassified" means you don't know the class; No. The tag highway=road says that the class is unknown. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of bullrings
Hi,
Jmapb wrote
> I don't know if there's a distinct style of traditional bullring
> architecture, but if there is, then building=bullring makes sense for
> those.
Not much difference. For example, in Spain, tennis matches are played in
bullrings. They are suitable for other types of sports. Live concerts are
also performed in bullrings.
Jmapb wrote
> And in fact such buildings might still be tagged building=bullring even if
> bullfighting no longer happens there.
That's right. One thing is the arena where bullfighting is performed.
("leisure=stadium" + "sport=bullfighting") and another the building
("building=stadium"). It has been hard for me to explain to the Spanish
community that the stadium is still a stadium even though bullfights are no
longer performed there. It seems that they have finally understood it.
I prefer "building=stadium" because a "bullring" is a type of stadium where
you can do other things besides performing bullfights. It does not differ so
significantly from other types of stadiums as to specify that it is a
different building. It is a type of stadium. However, if someone prefers to
use "building=bullring" I think it is possible. I prefer "building=stadium"
according to the common tag used for this type of building.
Thank you for commenting.
Regards,
Daniel
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Re: [Tagging] Road hierarchy
At the moment, 'unclassified' has so many different opinions that it means nothing at all. Could we at least agree on the basics: A. "unclassified" means you don't know the class; or B. "unclassified" is a class in itself. If A the UK needs an alternative for roads officially classified as 'unclassified'. I would go with 'quaternary' because it can be applied anywhere. If B a better differentiation is needed. I think defining it as "same as " is not helpful. Current OSM-usage is not helpful, because it just reflects the indecision and confusion. Maybe it's best to define "unclassified" as UK-only, and add quaternary for the missing step between tertiary and residential. Why missing link? I don't know the whole world, but all european countries I know have some sort of official classification of three levels to move around the country, and a lot of other public roads, brushed together as a rest category of "other roads". If we classify in the database, that's 'unclassified' or quaternary for me. Then residential roads/areas are mostly entered through those. As it stands, routing/navigating is not that bad, probably because I use OSM mainly for cycling/walking. Vr gr Peter Elderson Op ma 5 aug. 2019 om 07:11 schreef Florian Lohoff : > On Sun, Aug 04, 2019 at 07:55:16PM +0100, ael wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 04, 2019 at 04:23:03PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > > On 4. Aug 2019, at 15:37, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > > > A residential is also an unclassified road. > > > > > > IMHO it is not, as an unclassified road is part of the interconnection > grid, while a residential road is not > > > > My reply was going to be much the same. Unclassified roads are generally > > for "through traffic". Residential raods are primarily for access to > > those buildings, and would not (normally) be used for travel to other > > destinations. > > No statement in the Wiki backs up this claim. This is what i say. > > No statement about through traffic. Residentials are for through > traffic aswell although their primary purpose may be access to the > residential area. > > This is what our algorithmic brothers in routing/navigation do. Treating > unclassified and residential the same. > > And we cant distinguish these 2 by hard facts. Its more or less "felt > traffic pattern" or "believe" or "experience" how you tag. > > Flo > -- > Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de > UTF-8 Test: The ran after a , but the ran away > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
