Re: [Tagging] Country names
Am 15.10.2010 15:02, schrieb Emilie Laffray: On 15 October 2010 13:55, j...@jfeldredge.com mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: How would you handle the situation of what is on the sign being in more than one character set, such as a sign being labeled in both English (in Roman letters) and Arabic (in Arabic letters)? From photos I have seen, this is not uncommon in large cities, in countries where the local language or languages use non-Western scripts. As far as I am aware, OSM is storing the data in UTF-8 and mixing two scripts is not a problem. Inputting it might be a problem but if you get local people to do it, it is not a problem. It may get a problem in a BiDi Scenario but this is up to the UI of the editors and the renderers. Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On 15 October 2010 02:29, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: However, in countries that have more than one official language, or in areas that expect to have a lot of foreign visitors, you are likely to see more than one language on at least some of the signs. In this case, what would you recommend, particularly if the signs are labeled in more than one character set? As an example, in Vanuatu (which has a history of joined English French rule) the street signs often have a small Rue in the top left, then the street name, then a small St. So the sign Rue Bouganville St would be name:en=Bouganville Street, name:fr=Rue Bouganville, but what would you put in name=? Stephen ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
Am 15.10.2010 08:21, schrieb Stephen Hope: So the sign Rue Bouganville St would be name:en=Bouganville Street, name:fr=Rue Bouganville, but what would you put in name=? Exactly what's on the sign: Rue Bouganville St Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 08:31:08 +0200 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Am 15.10.2010 08:21, schrieb Stephen Hope: So the sign Rue Bouganville St would be name:en=Bouganville Street, name:fr=Rue Bouganville, but what would you put in name=? Exactly what's on the sign: Rue Bouganville St Peter That immediately violates the rule of not putting an abbreviation for a street name. However it is not Rue Bougainville Street either Rue Bougainville or Bougainville Street are alternate names. Which should have precedence is the question ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
Copy what is done in Belgium. name = Rue Bouganville - Bouganville Street (ie removing the abbreviation) Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On 15 October 2010 12:37, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: Copy what is done in Belgium. name = Rue Bouganville - Bouganville Street (ie removing the abbreviation) Yup, proper way of doing it. Emilie Laffray ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On 15 October 2010 13:55, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: How would you handle the situation of what is on the sign being in more than one character set, such as a sign being labeled in both English (in Roman letters) and Arabic (in Arabic letters)? From photos I have seen, this is not uncommon in large cities, in countries where the local language or languages use non-Western scripts. As far as I am aware, OSM is storing the data in UTF-8 and mixing two scripts is not a problem. Inputting it might be a problem but if you get local people to do it, it is not a problem. Emilie Laffray ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 11:14:37PM -0400, Peter Budny wrote: Looking at very high zoom levels on Mapnik, I noticed that the East Asian countries (Japan, China, etc) have their names written in native script with the English name in parentheses, but a lot of other countries (e.g. all the ones with Arabic characters) don't seem to follow this. Why the inconsistency? Either way makes sense, but shouldn't we pick one and stick with it? Yes we probably should. But have you ever tried to get 100.000 people to agree to anything, especially when every day a few thousand new people come in that haven't heard any previous discussion and just want to solve their own little problem? The right solution is probably to put the different names in name:language code tags. Thats how it has been document for a long time. But it doesn't matter what the right solution might be, if it doesn't solve the problem that people have. And one problem they have is that maps are hard to use if you can't read half the country names. Beeing consistent is important, but more important is the community and pragmatic solutions to solve current problems. This is one of those problems that will not be solved until the renderers get more clever and, for instance, take the name tag and the name:en tag and put them together in the local name (english name) form. Only then can we tag this consistently. (Feel free to work on that problem :-) Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
Am 14.10.2010 08:39, schrieb Jochen Topf:
And one problem they have is that maps are hard to use if you
can't read half the country names.
This is one of those problems that will not be solved until the renderers
get more clever and, for instance, take the name tag and the name:en tag
and put them together in the local name (english name) form. Only then can
we tag this consistently. (Feel free to work on that problem :-)
This sounds doable in the Style's SQL Statements. Currently we use
SELECT name AS local_name,
COALESCE(tags-'name:en', name) AS display_name
FROM planet_point
WHERE tags @ 'place=country'
AND NOT name IS NULL;
but we may also use
SELECT name AS local_name,
CASE WHEN name != (tags-'name:en')
THEN name || ' (' || (tags-'name:en') ||')'
ELSE name
END AS display_name
FROM planet_point
WHERE tags @ 'place=country'
AND NOT name IS NULL
LIMIT 10;
I could set up such a style on the toolserver if it would be helpful,
but I'd like to point to the localized maps we currently have in 30
languages: http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/ (use the layer switcher).
Peter
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Re: [Tagging] Country names
I could set up such a style on the toolserver if it would be helpful,
but I'd like to point to the localized maps we currently have in 30
languages: http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/ (use the layer switcher).
This is great!
...but it's not quite right (or I'm doing something wrong).
Here in Korea we are tagging names with 4 entries:
name=*
name:en=*
name:ko=*
name:ko_rm=*
Not all entries are required, but it is helpful if at least the first three
are present. Furthermore, the convention that has been adopted is that
name=* should be the name in Hangul, followed by a space, followed by the
name in English in parentheses. It is acceptable to have only Hangul or only
English for the name=* tag, because someone else can add the other parts
later.
This is documented here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ko:Map_Features#.ED.91.9C.EA.B8.B0.EB.B2.95
There is an English version under construction here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention
The same convention has been adopted in Japan.
So, as I see it, names should be rendered as follows:
If no language is requested, or a general-purpose name is required for an
object, use name=* and render it verbatim.
If English is requested then use name:en=* if such a tag is present. If it's
not present then use name=*
If Korean is requested then use name:ko=* if such a tag is present. If it's
not present then use name=*
This generalises to if language lang is requested then use name:lang=* if
such a tag is present. If it's not present then use name=*
What this means is that name:lang=* is redundant with name=* for the native
language, but only when the name=* tag has a special rule (such as Include
the English name in parentheses). If Korean mappers (and Japanese mappers)
had not adopted this convention then name=* would be Korean (or Japanese)
only and name:en=* would be the English version. name:ko and name:ja would
be un-needed, but the above rule would still work.
Incidentally, we type all four name entries by hand. It would be nice to have
a tool that would allow me to say name is name:ko+' '+'('+name:en+')'.
This should be done at 'compile time' i.e. when we are making the map,
not 'run time' i.e. when the map is being rendered, since the mapper may wish
to make the name=* tag slightly different to the concatentation of the two
other tags. Conversely we could have a reporting tool which reports when
name=* differs from name:ko+' '+'('+name:en+')'.
Anyway, my point is, and I do have one, if I look at the website
(http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/) I see English labels when I select
osm-labels-en (presumably taken from name:en=*) but I see the combined
Hangul+(English) when I select osm-labels-ko. Presumably these are being
taken from name=* when they should be taken from name:ko.
Aside from that, it's super-awesome.
Best wishes,
Andrew
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Re: [Tagging] Country names
Am 14.10.2010 12:41, schrieb Andrew Errington: This generalises to if language lang is requested then use name:lang=* if such a tag is present. If it's not present then use name=* That's exactly what we do on the locale maps on the toolserver for the 30+ languages listed there. Anyway, my point is, and I do have one, if I look at the website (http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/) I see English labels when I select osm-labels-en (presumably taken from name:en=*) but I see the combined Hangul+(English) when I select osm-labels-ko. Presumably these are being taken from name=* when they should be taken from name:ko. This is done for places that do not have a name:ko tag. As an example I'd take the place-node of china [1] which does not have a name:ko, so the rendering style takes the name-tag. You may want to look at my old country translation tool [2] so see which tags need to be checked and which tags should be translated. Be aware that the small zoom levels on the toolserver (0-6) are only rerendered once a month (sooner if you /dirty them). Aside from that, it's super-awesome. Thank you. It's basically an experiment of getting localized maps into the Wikipedia. Peter [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424313582 [2] http://toolserver.org/~mazder/multilingual-country-list/?lang=ko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk wrote: Furthermore, the convention that has been adopted is that name=* should be the name in Hangul, followed by a space, followed by the name in English in parentheses. : So, as I see it, names should be rendered as follows This is exactly a good example of tagging for the renderers. What OSM needs is a lot of local contributors. And for them, it is much easier to enter only one tag for the name and this in the local language. Other conventions are just workarounds for software issues. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:08:16 Peter Körner wrote: Am 14.10.2010 12:41, schrieb Andrew Errington: This generalises to if language lang is requested then use name:lang=* if such a tag is present. If it's not present then use name=* That's exactly what we do on the locale maps on the toolserver for the 30+ languages listed there. Anyway, my point is, and I do have one, if I look at the website (http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/) I see English labels when I select osm-labels-en (presumably taken from name:en=*) but I see the combined Hangul+(English) when I select osm-labels-ko. Presumably these are being taken from name=* when they should be taken from name:ko. This is done for places that do not have a name:ko tag. As an example I'd take the place-node of china [1] which does not have a name:ko, so the rendering style takes the name-tag. You may want to look at my old country translation tool [2] so see which tags need to be checked and which tags should be translated. You're right! I looked at the source data and the ones which looked wrong (in my opinion) have wrong/insufficient data. Now I can create another mapping task for myself... Aside from that, it's super-awesome. Thank you. It's basically an experiment of getting localized maps into the Wikipedia. I think it is the Right Way to do it. Thanks, Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On 10/14/10 7:57 AM, Andrew Errington wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:07:57 Pieren wrote: This is exactly a good example of tagging for the renderers. What OSM needs is a lot of local contributors. And for them, it is much easier to enter only one tag for the name and this in the local language. Other conventions are just workarounds for software issues. Not really. Street signs, roadsigns and other public signage is increasingly being printed in Hangul and English. However, when we get a renderer that can render name:ko + (name:en) we can delete all name=* which have been typed in that form and then rename name:ko=* to name=* In the meantime we don't have that, so we have a workaround. The fact that I can make a map in Korea in English is the main reason I became involved in OSM. I can make (and use) a map that is useful to me and the other English-speakers I know. it's a hack, it happens to work for you, and that's ok. but it's not good practice in terms of making a generally usable database. it causes some existing renderers to do something you like, but may cause headaches for other renderers that need to break the names out. that's where some of us have a problem with the approach. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
I'm not sure, if that's a good solution...
It's relatively simple and can be done automatically, but do it hit the
target?
For most Asian and Arabian countries that would help perhaps: the native
language uses other character (sub)sets and therefore the rest of the
world probably don't know how to read it, but let's consider Europe:
Deutschland = Germany: yes, sounds like a good idea for international use
France = France: sounds useless as these are the same (well - you
ignored same values in the query)
Belgien (german), /België/
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Nl-Koninkrijk_Belgi%C3%AB.ogg^
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilfe:Audio
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Nl-Koninkrijk_Belgi%C3%AB.ogg
(netherlands), /Belgique/ (france), Belgium (Englisch)... - is that
useful to put both onto the map? It's similar in a human mind, I think.
That in mind I would say, we should search for a more sophisticated
solution; and the best thing (while much work to do) would be to have
language specific label layers.
regards
Peter
On 14.10.2010 09:59, Peter Körner wrote:
Am 14.10.2010 08:39, schrieb Jochen Topf:
And one problem they have is that maps are hard to use if you
can't read half the country names.
This is one of those problems that will not be solved until the
renderers
get more clever and, for instance, take the name tag and the
name:en tag
and put them together in the local name (english name) form. Only
then can
we tag this consistently. (Feel free to work on that problem :-)
This sounds doable in the Style's SQL Statements. Currently we use
SELECT name AS local_name,
COALESCE(tags-'name:en', name) AS display_name
FROM planet_point
WHERE tags @ 'place=country'
AND NOT name IS NULL;
but we may also use
SELECT name AS local_name,
CASE WHEN name != (tags-'name:en')
THEN name || ' (' || (tags-'name:en') ||')'
ELSE name
END AS display_name
FROM planet_point
WHERE tags @ 'place=country'
AND NOT name IS NULL
LIMIT 10;
I could set up such a style on the toolserver if it would be helpful,
but I'd like to point to the localized maps we currently have in 30
languages: http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/ (use the layer switcher).
Peter
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Re: [Tagging] Country names
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 21:53:19 Richard Welty wrote: On 10/14/10 7:57 AM, Andrew Errington wrote: it's a hack, it happens to work for you, and that's ok. but it's not good practice in terms of making a generally usable database. it causes some existing renderers to do something you like, but may cause headaches for other renderers that need to break the names out. that's where some of us have a problem with the approach. I wholeheartedly agree with you, however it wasn't my idea and it was like that when I got here. I recognised it as a problem from the start, but I wasn't about to tell everyone 'ur doing it wrong' until a) I knew what I was doing b) There was a solution So, when we get a renderer that can render name:ko + (name:en) we can delete all name=* which have been typed in that form and then rename name:ko=* to name=* (Um, and then change the renderer to render name + (name:en), of course) In fact, I would go so far to say that we *can* do it now, and that we should start a project to introduce this function into the renderer and remove the previously hacked name=* tags in the database. In Korea that would not be a problem, as it's not really comprehensively mapped yet. Japan has a *lot* of data (so probably a lot of contributors and users that would need to be consulted/informed). There are other countries that also use this local name (English name) form for name=* So, how do I start such a process? Best wishes, Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On 14/10/2010 14:36, Andrew Errington wrote: So, when we get a renderer that can render name:ko + (name:en) we can delete all name=* which have been typed in that form and then rename name:ko=* to name=* No, this would not be helpful. Because then how do you know what language the name tag is in? More useful to leave the name:ko tag as it is. Though you could copy (not rename) the name:ko tag to the name tag if you want. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
Am 14.10.2010 15:47, schrieb Craig Wallace: On 14/10/2010 14:36, Andrew Errington wrote: So, when we get a renderer that can render name:ko + (name:en) we can delete all name=* which have been typed in that form and then rename name:ko=* to name=* No, this would not be helpful. Because then how do you know what language the name tag is in? More useful to leave the name:ko tag as it is. Though you could copy (not rename) the name:ko tag to the name tag if you want. To render a German map there are two possibilities: 1. render name:de if it exists, name otherwise 2. render name if its identical to name:de, name (name:de) otherwise name does hereby refer to the local name ((how do the people that live there call their country). This works for all the places that have only one local name. 1. is waht we currently render on the TS and it would be easy to set up 2., but it would not look nice because the name tag sometimes already contains brackets. Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
You can also test for the presence of name:de in name, rather than just equality, so that if name contains (say) French/German/Flemish components, then you use that rather than making your own name (name:de) combination. Richard On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Am 14.10.2010 15:47, schrieb Craig Wallace: On 14/10/2010 14:36, Andrew Errington wrote: So, when we get a renderer that can render name:ko + (name:en) we can delete all name=* which have been typed in that form and then rename name:ko=* to name=* No, this would not be helpful. Because then how do you know what language the name tag is in? More useful to leave the name:ko tag as it is. Though you could copy (not rename) the name:ko tag to the name tag if you want. To render a German map there are two possibilities: 1. render name:de if it exists, name otherwise 2. render name if its identical to name:de, name (name:de) otherwise name does hereby refer to the local name ((how do the people that live there call their country). This works for all the places that have only one local name. 1. is waht we currently render on the TS and it would be easy to set up 2., but it would not look nice because the name tag sometimes already contains brackets. Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
Am 14.10.2010 15:56, schrieb Richard Mann:
You can also test for the presence of name:de in name, rather than
just equality, so that if name contains (say) French/German/Flemish
components, then you use that rather than making your own name
(name:de) combination.
That would be:
SELECT name AS local_name,
CASE WHEN NOT name ~* (tags-'name:en')
THEN name || ' (' || (tags-'name:en') ||')'
ELSE name
END AS display_name
FROM planet_point
WHERE tags @ 'place=country'
AND NOT name IS NULL
LIMIT 10;
I'ts so simple.
Peter
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Re: [Tagging] Country names
Hi.
Tweaking the renderer this way is the wrong decision, I would say.
For me the problem is the mixed name stored in some name tags, e.g.
local-name (english name) as mentioned before.
Your idea here is to make the renderers better to avoid the NEED of that
crap (to be clear: as a workaround it's okay, but it's crap from the
data point of view).
If changing the renderer - why not change it correctly to use name +
(name:en) (if that's what we want for name containing only the local name).
There will be people fixing the bugs done as workaround yet - I'm sure;
and as a result we will get a better database with maps similar or equal
to the maps we have now, but perhaps with the far view towards real
multi-language rendering using e.g. different language layers.
regards
Peter
On 14.10.2010 16:03, Peter Körner wrote:
Am 14.10.2010 15:56, schrieb Richard Mann:
You can also test for the presence of name:de in name, rather than
just equality, so that if name contains (say) French/German/Flemish
components, then you use that rather than making your own name
(name:de) combination.
That would be:
SELECT name AS local_name,
CASE WHEN NOT name ~* (tags-'name:en')
THEN name || ' (' || (tags-'name:en') ||')'
ELSE name
END AS display_name
FROM planet_point
WHERE tags @ 'place=country'
AND NOT name IS NULL
LIMIT 10;
I'ts so simple.
Peter
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Re: [Tagging] Country names
On 14. Oktober 2010 18:57 Andrew Errington [a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk] wrote: Not really. Street signs, roadsigns and other public signage is increasingly being printed in Hangul and English. However, when we get a renderer that can render name:ko + (name:en) we can delete all name=* which have been typed in that form and then rename name:ko=* to name=* In the meantime we don't have that, so we have a workaround. Mapnik can already render a bilingual map without tricky tagging. Not on OpenStreetMap.org yet but thanks to Stephan for Thailand in Thai and English on http://thaimap.osm-tools.org/?zoom=13lat=16.44857lon=102.83732layers=B00. Happy mapping Willi ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On 14/10/2010 14:51, Peter Körner wrote: To render a German map there are two possibilities: 1. render name:de if it exists, name otherwise 2. render name if its identical to name:de, name (name:de) otherwise name does hereby refer to the local name ((how do the people that live there call their country). This works for all the places that have only one local name. 1. is waht we currently render on the TS and it would be easy to set up 2., but it would not look nice because the name tag sometimes already contains brackets. But what if you want to render a map with only German names, no other (local) languages? The obvious answer is to only render the name:de tag, but the problem with this is places that don't have name:de set, and just have a name. You don't know whether the name tag is in German or in some other language. You could assume what language name is in, based on country boundaries, but that makes things much more complicated. And there might be several common languages within one country. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
Am 14.10.2010 16:42, schrieb Craig Wallace: On 14/10/2010 14:51, Peter Körner wrote: To render a German map there are two possibilities: 1. render name:de if it exists, name otherwise 2. render name if its identical to name:de, name (name:de) otherwise name does hereby refer to the local name ((how do the people that live there call their country). But what if you want to render a map with only German names, no other (local) languages? That's version 1. If I don't have a name:de then name is the best guess. No Problem here. Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On Jueves 14 Octubre 2010 16:05:58 Peter Körner escribió: Am 14.10.2010 16:42, schrieb Craig Wallace: On 14/10/2010 14:51, Peter Körner wrote: To render a German map there are two possibilities: 1. render name:de if it exists, name otherwise 2. render name if its identical to name:de, name (name:de) otherwise name does hereby refer to the local name ((how do the people that live there call their country). But what if you want to render a map with only German names, no other (local) languages? That's version 1. If I don't have a name:de then name is the best guess. No Problem here. Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging That all is quite good for places with only one roman-script name. But I'm thinking in this case: name:es=Cataluña (This is the name in Spain's official language, which is official there since Catalonia is part of Spain) name:ca=Catalunya (This is the official name, it is in local language) name:en=Catalonia (This is the name in OSM's official language) How to tag name=* for that? How to render? An it can become more complicated, as in Basque Country most places have both spanish and basque names as official: name:es=Vitoria (=name:en) name:eu=Gasteiz official name: Vitoria/Gasteiz and some places where both names are the same (like Barakaldo) so official name is obviously not Barakaldo/Barakaldo or, just with one local and official name, but different names for people which use that map a lot, like british and german tourists in Canary Islands: name:es=Islas Canarias name:en=Canary Islands name:de=Canarische Inseln Noel er Envite ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fm wrote: You could assume what language name is in, based on country boundaries, but that makes things much more complicated. Not for a GIS application. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
Noel David Torres Taño env...@rolamasao.org writes: That all is quite good for places with only one roman-script name. But I'm thinking in this case: name:es=Cataluña (This is the name in Spain's official language, which is official there since Catalonia is part of Spain) name:ca=Catalunya (This is the official name, it is in local language) name:en=Catalonia (This is the name in OSM's official language) How to tag name=* for that? How to render? An it can become more complicated, as in Basque Country most places have both spanish and basque names as official: name:es=Vitoria (=name:en) name:eu=Gasteiz official name: Vitoria/Gasteiz and some places where both names are the same (like Barakaldo) so official name is obviously not Barakaldo/Barakaldo or, just with one local and official name, but different names for people which use that map a lot, like british and german tourists in Canary Islands: name:es=Islas Canarias name:en=Canary Islands name:de=Canarische Inseln There's a problem in places like Hawaii, too. Officially, Hawaiian uses the kahakō and the ʻokina. English does not. However, there are streets with names like Kalākaua Avenue and Liliʻuokalani Avenue. The name:en= tag should not contain kahakō or ʻokina. However, the name:haw= tag should not contain words like street or avenue, because these are English words! The best solution, then (and I mean this for all places, not just Hawaii) seems to be to tag name= with exactly what's written on the signs. If more than one language is used on signs, choose whichever is larger/more prominent/on top. This has added value in that you can give directions that tell the user to turn left on Liliʻuokalani Avenue or take the exit towards München and they'll be able to look for a sign that says exactly that, without the router needing to know anything about what the local language is. -- Peter Budny \ Georgia Tech \ CS PhD student \ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
However, in countries that have more than one official language, or in areas that expect to have a lot of foreign visitors, you are likely to see more than one language on at least some of the signs. In this case, what would you recommend, particularly if the signs are labeled in more than one character set? ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Country names From :mailto:pet...@gatech.edu Date :Thu Oct 14 11:05:02 America/Chicago 2010 Noel David Torres Taño env...@rolamasao.org writes: That all is quite good for places with only one roman-script name. But I'm thinking in this case: name:es=Cataluña (This is the name in Spain's official language, which is official there since Catalonia is part of Spain) name:ca=Catalunya (This is the official name, it is in local language) name:en=Catalonia (This is the name in OSM's official language) How to tag name=* for that? How to render? An it can become more complicated, as in Basque Country most places have both spanish and basque names as official: name:es=Vitoria (=name:en) name:eu=Gasteiz official name: Vitoria/Gasteiz and some places where both names are the same (like Barakaldo) so official name is obviously not Barakaldo/Barakaldo or, just with one local and official name, but different names for people which use that map a lot, like british and german tourists in Canary Islands: name:es=Islas Canarias name:en=Canary Islands name:de=Canarische Inseln There's a problem in places like Hawaii, too. Officially, Hawaiian uses the kahakō and the ʻokina. English does not. However, there are streets with names like Kalākaua Avenue and Liliʻuokalani Avenue. The name:en= tag should not contain kahakō or ʻokina. However, the name:haw= tag should not contain words like street or avenue, because these are English words! The best solution, then (and I mean this for all places, not just Hawaii) seems to be to tag name= with exactly what's written on the signs. If more than one language is used on signs, choose whichever is larger/more prominent/on top. This has added value in that you can give directions that tell the user to turn left on Liliʻuokalani Avenue or take the exit towards München and they'll be able to look for a sign that says exactly that, without the router needing to know anything about what the local language is. -- Peter Budny \ Georgia Tech \ CS PhD student \ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Country names
Looking at very high zoom levels on Mapnik, I noticed that the East Asian countries (Japan, China, etc) have their names written in native script with the English name in parentheses, but a lot of other countries (e.g. all the ones with Arabic characters) don't seem to follow this. Why the inconsistency? Either way makes sense, but shouldn't we pick one and stick with it? -- Peter Budny \ Georgia Tech \ CS PhD student \ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
