Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 24. Apr 2017, at 21:34, Micah Cochran  wrote:
> 
> Existing features that are slightly similar:
> 1. amenity=shelter with  shelter_type=weather_shelter is for a wilderness hut 
> to get out of the rain or a thunderstorm.
> 2. amenity=social_facility + social_facility=shelter, which is a shelters for 
> the homeless, refugees, and domestic violence cases. 


there is also a property called "shelter", typically associated to bus stops 
(i.e. although it is not explicitly written it is to be read as shelter from 
the rain + not too strong wind): 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Ashelter

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Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[Micah Cochran]

> Similar to public fallout shelters in the US

> The closest evacuation center to my house has different “classifications”
listed - as in what kinds disasters it is good for. this means if we are
tagging evacuation sites - there needs to be some kind of usage/shelter
type / disaster type data.


On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:39 AM, John Willis  wrote:

>
> On Apr 18, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Greg Troxel  wrote:
>
> Another thing to think about is the planned location of shelters, and to
> tag places that are pre-designated as possible shelters
>
>
> if a region or a country has designated evacuation sites/refuges/shelters/
> for evacuees to use, mapping them with some granularity might be very
> useful.
>
> Similar to public fallout shelters in the US, many public places in Japan
> have signs designating them as a "place of refuge” if an earthquake/tsunami
> forces you to leave your house. They are usually open-air places (school
> yards, parks, etc) to minimize the chance one could be unusable from a
> severe earthquake and inevitable fires afterwards in cities. They are often
> places with a large covered shelter (a gymnasium or other reinforced steel
> building that could be used as shelter from the weather), such as a middle
> school, in the rural areas.
>
> The closest evacuation center to my house has different “classifications”
> listed - as in what kinds disasters it is good for. this means if we are
> tagging evacuation sites - there needs to be some kind of usage/shelter
> type / disaster type data.
>
>
>
I have found the tagging for this type facility lacking.   I was
specifically looking at this for tornado and hurricane shelters, and I
wrote up a little something and was planning to post it at a future date.
Maybe it contributes to the conversation (or maybe not).


I am looking for a tagging scheme for public and semi-public
(business/industry) places of refuge during a severe wind event (tornado or
hurricane).

The United States Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) calls these
"safe rooms for tornado and hurricanes".  (Cyclones and typhoons are
synonyms for hurricanes.) Terms for classifying this might be "storm
shelter" or "severe wind safe room" might be a good way to classify this.

These are places that people go to for a limited amount while there a
threat is predicted/present.  For tornadoes people go to these places for
just a few hours, and for hurricanes people might be a there for a couple
days.

Safe room can also mean panic room, which is a reinforce portion close off
portion of a house to occupants seek refuge from intruders breaking in.

(If people are displaced, they will typically have to relocate to a
temporary disaster shelter.)

Existing features that are slightly similar:
1. amenity=shelter with  shelter_type=weather_shelter is for a wilderness
hut to get out of the rain or a thunderstorm.
2. amenity=social_facility + social_facility=shelter, which is a shelters
for the homeless, refugees, and domestic violence cases.

The weather shelter tagging seems wholly inadequate, and also
amenity=shelter includes picnic shelters, which I'd be mad if I ended up at
a picnic shelter during a tornado.

Some of these are single use facilities are single purpose.  Others are
multipurpose facilities that are within other spaces such as
classroom/meeting space it may be within a school or church.  The space is
open for a place of refuge when there is a weather threat.

Other information about the pertinent information to tag about the shelter
is operator, address, toilet, kitchen, access=public/private, power, phone,
radio, tv, communications equipment, wheelchair accessibility, and more?
For the US, it might be nice to tag if it meets the FEMA P-361 standards.

Other similar types of shelter that I know little about are
war/bomb/fallout shelters.  Also, there are fallout shelters, but in the
US, these are almost forgotten Cold War relics.

Micah Cochran
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Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 23. Apr 2017, at 02:35, Greg Troxel  wrote:
> 
> certainly the management hierarchy of anything doesn't
> belong on the map



clearly we are already doing it, e.g. admin_level, building=cathedral vs. 
church, etc.


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[Greg Troxel]

Tom Pfeifer  writes:

> On 18.04.2017 02:24, Greg Troxel wrote:
>> ... Having a functioning command and
>> communication structure is key in modern emergency management.
>>
>> Or perhaps you see emergency management as different from people ready
>> to provide direct assistance while operating at the leaves of the ICS.
>
> Thanks Greg for the analysis. I don't see OSM capable of representing
> the planning and management structure or command chain in those
> institutions. I see the need however, to tag physical infrastructure,
> such as garages for special equipment, storage for supplies, and
> places where responder teams exercise.
>
> So this is what I assume emergency=disaster_response is good for, any
> planning and managing locations should go to the office=* namespace.

Fair enough; certainly the management hierarchy of anything doesn't
belong on the map, and the emergency/office split (presuambly same for
fire/police) makes sense.

A further wrinkle is the secondary nature of facilities for disaster
response.  Around me, most things I'd tag as disaster_response have a
primary purpose with an expectation they'd be commandeered.  But if we
just add a node inside a building, that seems easy enough.


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Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[John Willis]

> On Apr 18, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Greg Troxel  wrote:
> 
> Another thing to think about is the planned location of shelters, and to
> tag places that are pre-designated as possible shelters

if a region or a country has designated evacuation sites/refuges/shelters/ for 
evacuees to use, mapping them with some granularity might be very useful. 

The red cross might have people stay in a (designated) school gymnasium 
overnight if there is flooding somewhere nearby - but if the “places of refuge” 
are used - something very bad has happened in the region.  

Refuges/shelters/sites are signed everywhere here in Japan.

Similar to public fallout shelters in the US, many public places in Japan have 
signs designating them as a "place of refuge” if an earthquake/tsunami forces 
you to leave your house. They are usually open-air places (school yards, parks, 
etc) to minimize the chance one could be unusable from a severe earthquake and 
inevitable fires afterwards in cities. They are often places with a large 
covered shelter (a gymnasium or other reinforced steel building that could be 
used as shelter from the weather), such as a middle school, in the rural areas. 

Places might have different types of evacuation sites - in this example, they 
have “evacuation sites” and “evacuation shelters” - sites are merely “safe” 
high ground from tsunamis, while shelters have some kind of facilities to 
actually help displaced people (who probably just lost their house). 

https://tonyj2japan.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/80narapark1.jpg 



The closest evacuation center to my house has different “classifications” 
listed - as in what kinds disasters it is good for. this means if we are 
tagging evacuation sites - there needs to be some kind of usage/shelter type / 
disaster type data. 

http://www.city.kiryu.lg.jp.e.wt.hp.transer.com/shisetsu/hinanjo/1008530/1006906.html
 



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Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 18.04.2017 01:26, Warin wrote:

On 17-Apr-17 09:55 PM, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

emergency=disaster_response

The specific national service could be subtagged, such as disaster_response=*

Why not use the present operator tag to specify the organisation?


Yes of course, good point.


... for the offices, agencies, ministries that are purely organisational



office=disaster_response might be suitable?


Yes I like that.

On 18.04.2017 02:24, Greg Troxel wrote:
> ... Having a functioning command and
> communication structure is key in modern emergency management.
>
> Or perhaps you see emergency management as different from people ready
> to provide direct assistance while operating at the leaves of the ICS.

Thanks Greg for the analysis. I don't see OSM capable of representing the planning and management 
structure or command chain in those institutions. I see the need however, to tag physical 
infrastructure, such as garages for special equipment, storage for supplies, and places where 
responder teams exercise.


So this is what I assume emergency=disaster_response is good for, any planning and managing 
locations should go to the office=* namespace.


tom

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Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 18. Apr 2017, at 02:24, Greg Troxel  wrote:
> 
> In the US:
> 
>  Emergency is an immediate threat to life or property.


this must be a historic definition, the current state of emergency in the US 
endures since 2001, or maybe the meaning of "immediate" has changed?


cheers,
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Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[Greg Troxel]

Tom Pfeifer  writes:

> There was a discussion recently, though I cannot find it, about 'civil
> defense'-like services, responding to major emergencies.
>
> They still lack an internationally suitable tag. There is an
> Australian attempt (emergency=ses_station) that gains some
> international interest, though it is an incomprehensible acronym for
> anybody else. Usage is still small enough for a better value.
>
> The result of the discussion was IIRC, that different countries have
> different organisational structures, and they are not always civil or
> governmental organisations (might be subordinated to military for
> example), or there might be several organisations in one country.
>
> Thus we need a tag that avoids to imply the organisational form.

All agreed.

> emergency=disaster_response
>
> comes to my mind, which is not used before and is neutral both in
> organisation and being volunteer or not. It focuses on the purpose.

Here I am starting to have trouble understanding what I would do in
various circumstances.

In the US:

  Emergency is an immediate threat to life or property.  Example:
  building fire, car crash, heart attack, robbery.  This includes a fire
  big enough that help from other towns is needed, or a riot at mall
  that needs other town's police, because that's normal and part of the
  plan.

  Disaster is a situation so large that the local emergency services
  cannot cope.  Generally ice storms or hurricances causing power
  failures, complete phone system failure, or severe flooding.

  There's a discipline of "emergency management".  Around me, each town
  has an official with the title "emergency manager", which is typically
  the same person as the fire chief, but not always.  Sometimes there is
  "Local Emergency Planning Committee (LEPC)".  However, the job of
  "emergency manager" and the LEPC is not about emergencies.  It's
  instead about disasters; the committee discusses contingency plans to
  open shelters if the coming storm results in an extended power outage.

  Power companies have mutual aid plans for big outages.  If crews
  travel 100 miles to help, that isn't considered a disaster, just a
  normal bad storm.  When the Canadians come to help in Massachusetts,
  or the other way around, that's a disaster.  (I have seen a Quebec
  Hydro truck in Worcester, once.)

  Most (all?) states have an emergency management agency (civil defense,
  office of emergency management).  The purpose of this agency is not to
  provide direct support to individuals but to provide statewide
  coordination of resources.  They will for example find out where help
  is needed and tell the national guard to go to that place.   They may
  have some response trucks, but those are mostly communications support
  and mobile command centers to help coordinate.

  There is a Federal Emergency Management Agency, much like the state.

  Generally, if there are offices, they are for the long-term
  pre-planning.  If my town had a power outage, a shelter would open in
  a town building which is a regular community center, not primarily an
  emergency center.  The normal uses would be cancelled and a group of
  volunteers (who have no regular facilities) would set up and staff a
  shelter.

> The specific national service could be subtagged, such as
> disaster_response=australian_ses or disaster_response=thw or
> =technisches_hilfswerk in Germany. Properties, like civil or run by
> military or an NGO, having volunteers, etc, can be subtagged.

That's fine.

> The tag should only be used for stations actually providing support,
> having technical equipment etc, not for the offices, agencies,
> ministries that are purely organisational.

This is where I have trouble.  Having a functioning command and
communication structure is key in modern emergency management.  See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_Command_System
for an overview which will give you an idea of the thinking.   This
started in the US but seems to be spreading internationally.

So I (as a ham radio operator, knowing the Medical Reserve Corps people,
and having attended LEPC meetings as the Amateur Radio representative)
don't really see the "provide help" vs "preparation/training" as the
right conceptual dividing line.  One way to think about it is how would
we tag 10 buildings that each have 2 engines, a ladder and an ambulance
and a headquarters building with no equipment but the central
planning/training staff for a city fire department?  Arguably we should
be doing the same for amenity=emergency_management.

There are probably a few places that have caches of supplies that are
primarily for disasters.  Around me those places are also the offices
for the long-term planning activity of emergency management agencies.
My town's fire station has a trailer for the Medical Reserve Corps at
the fire station, but it's intended to be moved as needed and the fact
that it's tucked away in the back is just a 

Re: [Tagging] Disaster response

[Warin]

On 17-Apr-17 09:55 PM, Tom Pfeifer wrote:
There was a discussion recently, though I cannot find it, about 'civil 
defense'-like services, responding to major emergencies.


They still lack an internationally suitable tag. There is an 
Australian attempt (emergency=ses_station) that gains some 
international interest, though it is an incomprehensible acronym for 
anybody else. Usage is still small enough for a better value.


The result of the discussion was IIRC, that different countries have 
different organisational structures, and they are not always civil or 
governmental organisations (might be subordinated to military for 
example), or there might be several organisations in one country.


Thus we need a tag that avoids to imply the organisational form.

emergency=disaster_response

comes to my mind, which is not used before and is neutral both in 
organisation and being volunteer or not. It focuses on the purpose.


The specific national service could be subtagged, such as 
disaster_response=australian_ses or disaster_response=thw or 
=technisches_hilfswerk in Germany. Properties, like civil or run by 
military or an NGO, having volunteers, etc, can be subtagged.

Why not use the present operator tag to specify the organisation?


The tag should only be used for stations actually providing support, 
having technical equipment etc, not for the offices, agencies, 
ministries that are purely organisational.


Opinions?
Some method of tagging these should be provided .. so that people have a 
method available and will not use this tag as 'nothing else is available'.

office=disaster_response might be suitable?


Tom

PS: some potential organisations from the wiki discussion (some are 
probably the agency and not the station):


Germany: Bundesamt für Bevölkerungsschutz und Katastrophenhilfe 
(BBK) /

 Technisches Hilfswerk THW
Austria: Oberösterreichischer Zivilschutzverband
Australia: State Emergency Service
Brazil: Civil defense in Brazil
Greece: Oberösterreichischer Zivilschutzverband (Civil Protection)
Ukraine: Державна служба України з надзвичайних ситуацій (State 
Emergency Service)

México: Protección Civil
España: Protección Civil
Czechia: Civilní obrana

The UK?
Royal National Lifeboat Institution 
 (RNLI)

mountain rescue, cave rescue



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[Tagging] Disaster response

[Tom Pfeifer]

There was a discussion recently, though I cannot find it, about 'civil defense'-like services, 
responding to major emergencies.


They still lack an internationally suitable tag. There is an Australian attempt 
(emergency=ses_station) that gains some international interest, though it is an incomprehensible 
acronym for anybody else. Usage is still small enough for a better value.


The result of the discussion was IIRC, that different countries have different organisational 
structures, and they are not always civil or governmental organisations (might be subordinated to 
military for example), or there might be several organisations in one country.


Thus we need a tag that avoids to imply the organisational form.

emergency=disaster_response

comes to my mind, which is not used before and is neutral both in organisation and being volunteer 
or not. It focuses on the purpose.


The specific national service could be subtagged, such as disaster_response=australian_ses or 
disaster_response=thw or =technisches_hilfswerk in Germany. Properties, like civil or run by 
military or an NGO, having volunteers, etc, can be subtagged.


The tag should only be used for stations actually providing support, having technical equipment etc, 
not for the offices, agencies, ministries that are purely organisational.


Opinions?

Tom

PS: some potential organisations from the wiki discussion (some are probably the agency and not the 
station):


Germany: Bundesamt für Bevölkerungsschutz und Katastrophenhilfe (BBK) /
 Technisches Hilfswerk THW
Austria: Oberösterreichischer Zivilschutzverband
Australia: State Emergency Service
Brazil: Civil defense in Brazil
Greece: Oberösterreichischer Zivilschutzverband (Civil Protection)
Ukraine: Державна служба України з надзвичайних ситуацій (State Emergency 
Service)
México: Protección Civil
España: Protección Civil
Czechia: Civilní obrana

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