Re: [Tagging] second_hand shops
Am 05.11.2011 15:49, schrieb Tobias Johansson: I think it would be good with two values. only and both, to make a distinction between purly second hand shops and second hand shops that also sells new items. +1 (maybee second_hand=yes could subbstitute only -1 If you want to differentiate between 'also' and 'only' you will have to be precise. 'Yes' is ambigious for both cases. E. g. I would see 'secondhand=yes' as as shop which sells normally new items but also secondhand - in opposite to 'secondhand=only'. But while I would look for a furniture or clothes shop which sells second hand - I would look for a 'second hand shop' if I am looking for IT, electronics, games or other small stuff. At least here in Germany. BTW: A 'shop=car' mostly sells second hand also ... or only. Georg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] second_hand shops
2011/11/5 Ferenc Veres : > > > 2011.11.04. 11:59 keltezéssel, Martin Koppenhoefer írta: >>> Any type of shop may sell second_hand goods, so it seems to be an >>> additional property. The shop's most important property is WHAT IT >>> SELLS, and whether it is second hand is secondary detail. >>> >>> My basic idea is: >>> second_hand=yes >> >> >> >> this will force all maps that show book shops or shops for clothing to >> check for this key. > > Why? It it still a book shop or clothes shop primarily. > I agree it does not matter since they still sell clothes/furniture/.. even if it's second hand. >> Basically not all products are sold second_hand, >> but there is quite some). And there is also shops that sell both: >> second_hand and new stuff (think of cars). So instead of >> second_hand=yes/no I'd prefer something like >> second_hand=only/additionally (maybe even second_hand=few/mostly). >> >> The problem is similar as with rental: some do only rent, others do >> both, some don't rent. > > Yes, this was my main concern about wording of the tag. I think "yes" > value is much easier to remember than "only", I really would like to > hear other native English speakers about the other value: > > "additionally" is too complicated, while it could be simply tagged > > could be > > second_hand=too > or > second_hand=also > or > second_hand=both > > (however it's not easy on a GUI either, it needs a dropdown) > > I think it would be good with two values. only and both, to make a distinction between purly second hand shops and second hand shops that also sells new items. (maybee second_hand=yes could subbstitute only (I belive that is the most common. atleast where I'm from) >> You could have keys for all products that are sold, e.g. >> shop=second_hand (or bicycle/books/...), where we recommend to use >> second_hand if they do not sell new products and the other values if >> they also sell second hand stuff. >> >> plus >> second_hand:clothes=only/additionally >> second_hand:furniture= >> second_hand:cars= >> second_hand:vinyl_records= > > I'd prefer simple wording and simple tagging. Seems you find > "second_hand" more important than what is sold. This tagging would kill > rendering and search-result of all shops that sell second_hand stuff > when searched by product. And would require extra complexity to search > it, just because it's second_hand, while second_hand shops are at least > as common and loved by customers than normal shops. > > Thank you, > Ferenc > > > -- > Ferenc Veres > http://www.wpsnet.com > > To send GPG encrypted message please use this key > http://lion.xaraya.hu/images/ferenc_veres_gpg.txt > and a program like this: http://www.gpg4win.org/ > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] second_hand shops
2011.11.04. 11:59 keltezéssel, Martin Koppenhoefer írta: >> Any type of shop may sell second_hand goods, so it seems to be an >> additional property. The shop's most important property is WHAT IT >> SELLS, and whether it is second hand is secondary detail. >> >> My basic idea is: >> second_hand=yes > > > > this will force all maps that show book shops or shops for clothing to > check for this key. Why? It it still a book shop or clothes shop primarily. > Basically not all products are sold second_hand, > but there is quite some). And there is also shops that sell both: > second_hand and new stuff (think of cars). So instead of > second_hand=yes/no I'd prefer something like > second_hand=only/additionally (maybe even second_hand=few/mostly). > > The problem is similar as with rental: some do only rent, others do > both, some don't rent. Yes, this was my main concern about wording of the tag. I think "yes" value is much easier to remember than "only", I really would like to hear other native English speakers about the other value: "additionally" is too complicated, while it could be simply tagged could be second_hand=too or second_hand=also or second_hand=both (however it's not easy on a GUI either, it needs a dropdown) > You could have keys for all products that are sold, e.g. > shop=second_hand (or bicycle/books/...), where we recommend to use > second_hand if they do not sell new products and the other values if > they also sell second hand stuff. > > plus > second_hand:clothes=only/additionally > second_hand:furniture= > second_hand:cars= > second_hand:vinyl_records= I'd prefer simple wording and simple tagging. Seems you find "second_hand" more important than what is sold. This tagging would kill rendering and search-result of all shops that sell second_hand stuff when searched by product. And would require extra complexity to search it, just because it's second_hand, while second_hand shops are at least as common and loved by customers than normal shops. Thank you, Ferenc -- Ferenc Veres http://www.wpsnet.com To send GPG encrypted message please use this key http://lion.xaraya.hu/images/ferenc_veres_gpg.txt and a program like this: http://www.gpg4win.org/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] second_hand shops
2011/11/4 Ferenc Veres : > I find the current proposals for "second_hand" not well describing and > confusing (different on different Wiki pages). > > Any type of shop may sell second_hand goods, so it seems to be an > additional property. The shop's most important property is WHAT IT > SELLS, and whether it is second hand is secondary detail. > > My basic idea is: > second_hand=yes this will force all maps that show book shops or shops for clothing to check for this key. Basically not all products are sold second_hand, but there is quite some). And there is also shops that sell both: second_hand and new stuff (think of cars). So instead of second_hand=yes/no I'd prefer something like second_hand=only/additionally (maybe even second_hand=few/mostly). The problem is similar as with rental: some do only rent, others do both, some don't rent. You could have keys for all products that are sold, e.g. shop=second_hand (or bicycle/books/...), where we recommend to use second_hand if they do not sell new products and the other values if they also sell second hand stuff. plus second_hand:clothes=only/additionally second_hand:furniture= second_hand:cars= second_hand:vinyl_records= ... Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] second_hand shops
Hi all,
I find the current proposals for "second_hand" not well describing and
confusing (different on different Wiki pages).
Any type of shop may sell second_hand goods, so it seems to be an
additional property. The shop's most important property is WHAT IT
SELLS, and whether it is second hand is secondary detail.
My basic idea is:
second_hand=yes
This cannot cover the situations when the shop sells ONLY second hand,
or BOTH new and second hand. I need ideas for that, because I find this
difference important.
Current status research
---
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop
shop=second_hand
"A shop buying and selling used clothes and other things."
---> this mixes any products together, not good.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dsecond_hand
Recommends using "shop=books" and "shop=clothes" instead, which is
right, but then the important fact of "second hand" is lost.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:books
Recommends using "shop=second_hand" and "second_hand=books", but then
all those book shops are not found anymore in book searches, unless book
searches are improved to an unnecessary complexity. Also gone from the
map when shop=second_hand is not marked. This puts priority on
second_hand and reduces the priority of WHAT is sold. I don't think
people searches that way! ("Give me anything used!")
Summary
---
Shops should be primarily tagged by what they sell. Second hand should
be added as an additional property of the shop. This could keep second
hand book, clothes, computer, etc "on the map" when searching such
places, and users can get "second hand" info for special views or when
requesting more details.
Problem
---
Values:
no = don't add second_hand tag
yes = second_hand=yes
both = ??? problem ???
This is similar to female=yes, male=yes, where one excludes the other
unless also specified. But a similar method cannot be applied here I
think?
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:female
I'll make a wiki page based on feedback.
Many thanks,
Ferenc Veres
[kempelen]
http://www.openstreetmap.hu
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