Re: [GTALUG] RaspberryPi won't automount USB memory stick

[Nicholas Krause via talk]

On 1/14/22 23:24, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:

Greetings, all.

I have an embedded system that uses a Raspberry Pi 3. I have it set up and 
running with the latest Raspbian and all is well, almost. For some reason the 
Raspbian system is not set up to automount memory sticks when they are inserted 
in to a USB port on the machine.

On another embedded system I needed to install the usbmount package to get the 
system to automount a memory stick when it is inserted. I have installed 
usbmount on the RPi but it still won't automount a USB memory stick. The output 
from dmesg reports that it is seeing the insertion of the USB memory device. 
The device is also reported under lsusb.

Why is Raspbian not set up to automount a memory stick like is done on a normal 
Linux based desktop? My desktop does it and I don't have an usbmount package 
installed. How do I configure Raspbian to automount a memory stick?



Normally it's something with systemd or udev rule flags. I had to google it as 
I'm
not aware of all the rules. See if this works:

Make sure it works  by changing MountFlags=slave to MountFlags=shared here:

sudo nano /lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service

Not sure this helps,
Nick
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[GTALUG] RaspberryPi won't automount USB memory stick

[Kevin Cozens via talk]

Greetings, all.

I have an embedded system that uses a Raspberry Pi 3. I have it set up and 
running with the latest Raspbian and all is well, almost. For some reason 
the Raspbian system is not set up to automount memory sticks when they are 
inserted in to a USB port on the machine.


On another embedded system I needed to install the usbmount package to get 
the system to automount a memory stick when it is inserted. I have installed 
usbmount on the RPi but it still won't automount a USB memory stick. The 
output from dmesg reports that it is seeing the insertion of the USB memory 
device. The device is also reported under lsusb.


Why is Raspbian not set up to automount a memory stick like is done on a 
normal Linux based desktop? My desktop does it and I don't have an usbmount 
package installed. How do I configure Raspbian to automount a memory stick?


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Erica Peterson via talk]

The full name is Radioworld.  Their website is https://www.radioworld.ca/ and 
they have a physical store on Steeles in North York, with somewhat limited 
hours.  They sell gear for amateur radio, marine/aviation, GPS, including a 
variety of headphones and headsets.

Cheers,
Erica

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 6:03 PM, Karen Lewellen 
 wrote:

> May I ask for the full company name?
>
> Radioworld is a new one for me.
>
> I do agree, they sound like a fine resource!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Karen
>
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Erica Peterson wrote:
>
> > Karen, if this is for a reader (not music), maybe you could visit (or 
> > email) Radioworld and talk with them about their headphones and headsets? 
> > Unfortunately there don't seem to be good product filtering options on the 
> > website, but I would think they would be knowledgeable about the specific 
> > parameters you care about.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Erica
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 4:53 PM, Nicholas Krause 
> > xerofo...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > On 1/14/22 15:52, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi nick,
> > > >
> > > > I still owe you a response to your note about cellphones, audiophiles, 
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > > in the ear monitors...imagine a scrunched face here.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking personally, one does not enjoy quality music on a cellphone 
> > > > smiles.
> > > >
> > > > This audiophile uses a real stereo with real speakers with her real 
> > > > vinyl collection.
> > > >
> > > > To answer your question, I was given too much anesthetic during an eye 
> > > > surgery resulting in a vascular accident to a very tiny part of my 
> > > > brain. In the area that processes speech.
> > > >
> > > > There are solutions, perhaps consult the book "the brain's way of 
> > > > healing." or even the CBC special.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, one result is issues with some frequencies. Aside from 
> > > > headphones, rather a few cell phones, even cordless phones create the 
> > > > same impact, I can get dizzy, with some far far worse factors if 
> > > > exposure continues for a long time.
> > > >
> > > > My cell for example is a lg flip phone, not a smartphone.
> > > >
> > > > It seems? that the closer to analog, the happier my brain happens to be.
> > > >
> > > > Because I am a singer, some of the doctors discussed in the above 
> > > > referenced book began healing this part of my brain, neural plasticity 
> > > > is a magical thing.
> > > >
> > > > Could not finish due to expense at the time however.
> > > >
> > > > Intend returning, with everything crossed staff with the Listening 
> > > > centre here in Toronto remain well.
> > > >
> > > > Long answer to a short question, but long before I had a solution, I 
> > > > was choosing my audio gear very carefully, and my needs differ 
> > > > depending on the device in question.
> > > >
> > > > One set of headphone needs for my talking computer, another for my 
> > > > stereo, a third for my portable Walkman etc.
> > > >
> > > > Does this make sense?
> > > >
> > > > Kare
> > >
> > > That helps now. So your talking about wave form issues with digital 
> > > conversion. Most high
> > >
> > > end DACs get rid of this. As for headphones, that would be some part of 
> > > the frequency not
> > >
> > > sure what. Most really high end headphones don't have this issue. I'm not 
> > > a expert but
> > >
> > > that's probably in the mid high to high frequencies if your talking core 
> > > less. It
> > >
> > > seems that's my best guess. You probably want PCM 96khz or above at least 
> > > to get as close
> > >
> > > to analog as possible if that's your comment. As you mentioned unless you 
> > > have a actual
> > >
> > > good DAC, it's not going to matter here.
> > >
> > > As for IEMs, the market is much better now. Sure it's not as good as true 
> > > open backed or
> > >
> > > really, really high end loudspeakers i.e. Class A. I look at them more as 
> > > it's not terrible
> > >
> > > from my very picky perspective for portable use. I'm very picky even more 
> > > than most of the
> > >
> > > audiophiles I know. I was in the middle of researching my own vinyl setup 
> > > actually that
> > >
> > > meets my standards. So far I'm figured out that moving coil is the only 
> > > way to go. Not sure
> > >
> > > when it will happen through.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Nicholas Krause wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Karen,
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you mean by dizzy actually? Normally that or fatigue is a 
> > > > > comfort or sound sensitivity issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, these days I've very sensitive to frequencies in the mid 
> > > > > range and mid treble. That's
> > > > >
> > > > > about 400hz - 1khz and 6khz-10khz. You may want to figure out if your 
> > > > > sensitive to sound issues in
> > > > >
> > > > > certain parts of the spectrum. Or perhaps you mean something else. 
> > > > > This is 

Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Karen Lewellen via talk]

May I ask for the full company name?
Radioworld is a new one for me.
I do agree, they sound like a fine resource!
Cheers,
Karen



On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Erica Peterson wrote:


Karen, if this is for a reader (not music), maybe you could visit (or email) 
Radioworld and talk with them about their headphones and headsets?  
Unfortunately there don't seem to be good product filtering options on the 
website, but I would think they would be knowledgeable about the specific 
parameters you care about.

Cheers,
Erica

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 4:53 PM, Nicholas Krause  
wrote:


On 1/14/22 15:52, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Hi nick,

I still owe you a response to your note about cellphones, audiophiles, and

in the ear monitors...imagine a scrunched face here.

Speaking personally, one does not enjoy quality music on a cellphone smiles.

This audiophile uses a real stereo with real speakers with her real vinyl 
collection.

To answer your question, I was given too much anesthetic during an eye surgery 
resulting in a vascular accident to a very tiny part of my brain. In the area 
that processes speech.

There are solutions, perhaps consult the book "the brain's way of healing." or 
even the CBC special.

Anyway, one result is issues with some frequencies. Aside from headphones, 
rather a few cell phones, even cordless phones create the same impact, I can 
get dizzy, with some far far worse factors if exposure continues for a long 
time.

My cell for example is a lg flip phone, not a smartphone.

It seems? that the closer to analog, the happier my brain happens to be.

Because I am a singer, some of the doctors discussed in the above referenced 
book began healing this part of my brain, neural plasticity is a magical thing.

Could not finish due to expense at the time however.

Intend returning, with everything crossed staff with the Listening centre here 
in Toronto remain well.

Long answer to a short question, but long before I had a solution, I was 
choosing my audio gear very carefully, and my needs differ depending on the 
device in question.

One set of headphone needs for my talking computer, another for my stereo, a 
third for my portable Walkman etc.

Does this make sense?

Kare


That helps now. So your talking about wave form issues with digital conversion. 
Most high

end DACs get rid of this. As for headphones, that would be some part of the 
frequency not

sure what. Most really high end headphones don't have this issue. I'm not a 
expert but

that's probably in the mid high to high frequencies if your talking core less. 
It

seems that's my best guess. You probably want PCM 96khz or above at least to 
get as close

to analog as possible if that's your comment. As you mentioned unless you have 
a actual

good DAC, it's not going to matter here.

As for IEMs, the market is much better now. Sure it's not as good as true open 
backed or

really, really high end loudspeakers i.e. Class A. I look at them more as it's 
not terrible

from my very picky perspective for portable use. I'm very picky even more than 
most of the

audiophiles I know. I was in the middle of researching my own vinyl setup 
actually that

meets my standards. So far I'm figured out that moving coil is the only way to 
go. Not sure

when it will happen through.

Nick


On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Nicholas Krause wrote:


Karen,

What do you mean by dizzy actually? Normally that or fatigue is a comfort or 
sound sensitivity issue.

For example, these days I've very sensitive to frequencies in the mid range and 
mid treble. That's

about 400hz - 1khz and 6khz-10khz. You may want to figure out if your sensitive 
to sound issues in

certain parts of the spectrum. Or perhaps you mean something else. This is just 
my experience with

various people.

Good luck with your search through,

Nick

On 1/14/22 15:10, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Hi Erica,

The Sony Mdr-7506 headphones have been a staple of audio production for

honestly decades. I got my pair in hmmm2004 or 2005.

However, this is a fine example of my personal issue...I cannot use them.

The impedance on this model is 24, and they make me dizzy.

I do have production assistants use them, and in all these years the ear

pads remain flawless.

That being said, I may be reaching out to Sony directly, as my e-mail

exchange with JVC is becoming rather frustrating smiles.

best,

Kare

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Erica Peterson wrote:


You may have better luck picking a few common brands and going to the > manufacturer 
websites. Sony, for example, will let you select multiple > models for comparison 
across features: > https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/headphones/t/headband-headphones


FWIW, about 5 years ago I got a Sony MDR-7506 headset -- admittedly, not > based on any sort of audiophile 
specs, but because I'd seen them used in > recording studios and figured that was a strong point in their 
favor. > I'm still very happy with it but with two small 

Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 4:34 PM Erica Peterson via talk  wrote:
>
> Karen, if this is for a reader (not music), maybe you could visit (or email) 
> Radioworld and talk with them about their headphones and headsets?  
> Unfortunately there don't seem to be good product filtering options on the 
> website, but I would think they would be knowledgeable about the specific 
> parameters you care about.
>

If particular frequencies are the issue then dropping an equalizer
into the system and dropping those specific frequencies on something
like a short tight (like 18dB roll off) cutoff could help.

If its sound wave attenuation - - - that's going to be very tricky trying
to 'fix' it.


Find it interesting - - - the talk has come around to audiophile.
Bought my stereo some 30 odd years ago.
In the process found speakers that I really liked - - - that time the
Infinity Quantum Reference II s.
They were very very nice.
I was auditioning using a recording of the Montreal Symphony doing
Stravinski's Rite of Spring (Dances Sacre et Profane is a serious
test). The 12' bass drum and the serious amount of cymbals and
triangle are tough on systems.
Then there was a recording of Bach's organ music (some of it) with the
Toccata and Fugue in d using a 32' stop.
Found out what that sounded felt like in a cathedral in Europe where
the organist played the pedals using 'only' the 32' stop. That organ
had some 70 hp on the blower and I was about 125' from the pipes - - -
could feel a lot of energy through my feet that time! (that's also 16
Hz!)
Then I was also using a recording of music feature Placido Domingo - -
- the male voice is tough on speakers because the frequencies are
moving from the mid/upper bass into the mid-range areas.

Wished I could have bought those speakers (company now called Genesis)
but they cost almost as much as I spent on the system that time.

Brings back a few memories - - - -

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Erica Peterson via talk]

Karen, if this is for a reader (not music), maybe you could visit (or email) 
Radioworld and talk with them about their headphones and headsets?  
Unfortunately there don't seem to be good product filtering options on the 
website, but I would think they would be knowledgeable about the specific 
parameters you care about.

Cheers,
Erica

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 4:53 PM, Nicholas Krause  
wrote:

> On 1/14/22 15:52, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>
> > Hi nick,
> >
> > I still owe you a response to your note about cellphones, audiophiles, and
> >
> > in the ear monitors...imagine a scrunched face here.
> >
> > Speaking personally, one does not enjoy quality music on a cellphone smiles.
> >
> > This audiophile uses a real stereo with real speakers with her real vinyl 
> > collection.
> >
> > To answer your question, I was given too much anesthetic during an eye 
> > surgery resulting in a vascular accident to a very tiny part of my brain. 
> > In the area that processes speech.
> >
> > There are solutions, perhaps consult the book "the brain's way of healing." 
> > or even the CBC special.
> >
> > Anyway, one result is issues with some frequencies. Aside from headphones, 
> > rather a few cell phones, even cordless phones create the same impact, I 
> > can get dizzy, with some far far worse factors if exposure continues for a 
> > long time.
> >
> > My cell for example is a lg flip phone, not a smartphone.
> >
> > It seems? that the closer to analog, the happier my brain happens to be.
> >
> > Because I am a singer, some of the doctors discussed in the above 
> > referenced book began healing this part of my brain, neural plasticity is a 
> > magical thing.
> >
> > Could not finish due to expense at the time however.
> >
> > Intend returning, with everything crossed staff with the Listening centre 
> > here in Toronto remain well.
> >
> > Long answer to a short question, but long before I had a solution, I was 
> > choosing my audio gear very carefully, and my needs differ depending on the 
> > device in question.
> >
> > One set of headphone needs for my talking computer, another for my stereo, 
> > a third for my portable Walkman etc.
> >
> > Does this make sense?
> >
> > Kare
>
> That helps now. So your talking about wave form issues with digital 
> conversion. Most high
>
> end DACs get rid of this. As for headphones, that would be some part of the 
> frequency not
>
> sure what. Most really high end headphones don't have this issue. I'm not a 
> expert but
>
> that's probably in the mid high to high frequencies if your talking core 
> less. It
>
> seems that's my best guess. You probably want PCM 96khz or above at least to 
> get as close
>
> to analog as possible if that's your comment. As you mentioned unless you 
> have a actual
>
> good DAC, it's not going to matter here.
>
> As for IEMs, the market is much better now. Sure it's not as good as true 
> open backed or
>
> really, really high end loudspeakers i.e. Class A. I look at them more as 
> it's not terrible
>
> from my very picky perspective for portable use. I'm very picky even more 
> than most of the
>
> audiophiles I know. I was in the middle of researching my own vinyl setup 
> actually that
>
> meets my standards. So far I'm figured out that moving coil is the only way 
> to go. Not sure
>
> when it will happen through.
>
> Nick
>
> > On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Nicholas Krause wrote:
> >
> > > Karen,
> > >
> > > What do you mean by dizzy actually? Normally that or fatigue is a comfort 
> > > or sound sensitivity issue.
> > >
> > > For example, these days I've very sensitive to frequencies in the mid 
> > > range and mid treble. That's
> > >
> > > about 400hz - 1khz and 6khz-10khz. You may want to figure out if your 
> > > sensitive to sound issues in
> > >
> > > certain parts of the spectrum. Or perhaps you mean something else. This 
> > > is just my experience with
> > >
> > > various people.
> > >
> > > Good luck with your search through,
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > > On 1/14/22 15:10, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Erica,
> > > >
> > > > The Sony Mdr-7506 headphones have been a staple of audio production for
> > > >
> > > > honestly decades. I got my pair in hmmm2004 or 2005.
> > > >
> > > > However, this is a fine example of my personal issue...I cannot use 
> > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > The impedance on this model is 24, and they make me dizzy.
> > > >
> > > > I do have production assistants use them, and in all these years the ear
> > > >
> > > > pads remain flawless.
> > > >
> > > > That being said, I may be reaching out to Sony directly, as my e-mail
> > > >
> > > > exchange with JVC is becoming rather frustrating smiles.
> > > >
> > > > best,
> > > >
> > > > Kare
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Erica Peterson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You may have better luck picking a few common brands and going to the 
> > > > > > manufacturer websites. Sony, for example, will let you select 
> > > > > 

Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Nicholas Krause via talk]

On 1/14/22 15:52, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Hi nick,
I still owe you a response to your note about cellphones, audiophiles, and
in the ear monitors...imagine a scrunched face  here.
Speaking personally, one does not enjoy quality music on a cellphone smiles.
This audiophile uses a real stereo with real speakers  with her real vinyl 
collection.
To answer your  question, I was given too much anesthetic during an eye surgery 
resulting in a vascular accident to a very  tiny part of my brain. In the area 
that processes speech.
There are solutions,  perhaps consult the book  "the brain's way of healing." 
or even the CBC special.
Anyway, one result is issues with some frequencies.  Aside from headphones, 
rather a few cell phones, even cordless phones  create the same  impact,  I can 
get dizzy,  with some far far worse factors if exposure  continues for a long 
time.
My cell for example is a lg flip phone, not  a smartphone.
It seems? that the closer to analog, the happier my brain happens to be.
Because I am a singer, some of the doctors discussed  in the above referenced 
book  began healing this part of my brain, neural plasticity is a magical thing.
Could not finish due to expense at the time however.
Intend returning, with everything crossed staff with the Listening centre here 
in Toronto remain well.
Long answer to a short question, but long before I had a solution, I was 
choosing my audio gear very carefully, and my needs differ depending on the 
device in question.
One set of headphone needs for my talking computer, another for my stereo, a 
third for my portable Walkman etc.
Does this make sense?
Kare


That helps now. So your talking about wave form issues with digital conversion. 
Most high
end DACs get rid of this. As for headphones, that would be some part of the 
frequency not
sure what. Most really high end headphones don't have this issue. I'm not a 
expert but
that's probably in the mid high to high frequencies if your talking core less. 
It
seems that's my best guess. You probably want PCM 96khz or above at least to 
get as close
to analog as possible if that's your comment. As you mentioned unless you have 
a actual
good DAC, it's not going to matter here.

As for IEMs, the market is much better now. Sure it's not as good as true open 
backed or
really, really high end loudspeakers i.e. Class A. I look at them more as it's 
not terrible
from my very picky perspective for portable use. I'm very picky even more than 
most of the
audiophiles I know. I was in the middle of researching my own vinyl setup 
actually that
meets my standards. So far I'm figured out that moving coil is the only way to 
go. Not sure
when it will happen through.

Nick





On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Nicholas Krause wrote:


Karen,
What do you mean by dizzy actually? Normally that or fatigue is a comfort or 
sound sensitivity issue.
For example, these days I've very sensitive to frequencies in the mid range and 
mid treble. That's
about 400hz - 1khz and 6khz-10khz. You may want to figure out if your sensitive 
to sound issues in
certain parts of the spectrum. Or perhaps you mean something else. This is just 
my experience with
various people.

Good luck with your search through,
Nick

On 1/14/22 15:10, Karen Lewellen wrote:

 Hi  Erica,
 The Sony Mdr-7506 headphones have been a staple of audio production for
 honestly decades.  I got my pair in hmmm2004 or 2005.
 However, this is a fine example of my personal issue...I cannot use them.
 The impedance on this model is 24, and they make me dizzy.
 I do have production assistants use them, and in all these years the ear
 pads remain flawless.
 That being said, I may be reaching out to  Sony directly, as my e-mail
 exchange with JVC is becoming rather frustrating smiles.
 best,
 Kare



 On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Erica Peterson wrote:

>  You may have better luck picking a few common brands and going to the >  
manufacturer websites.  Sony, for example, will let you select multiple >  models for 
comparison across features: >  
https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/headphones/t/headband-headphones
> >  FWIW, about 5 years ago I got a Sony MDR-7506 headset -- admittedly, not >  based on any sort of 
audiophile specs, but because I'd seen them used in >  recording studios and figured that was a strong point in 
their favor. >  I'm still very happy with it but with two small quibbles: (1) the cable >  doesn't detach, so it 
would be a pain to replace if I were to damage it, >  and (2) the material covering the pads degrades after a few 
years.  I >  just replaced the pads with "Wicked Cushions" from Amazon, which are >  made to fit 
popular headset models.  The Wicked Cushions are great so >  far.
> >  Erica
> >  ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >  On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 1:02 AM, Nicholas Krause via talk >  
 wrote:
> > >  On 2022-01-14 12:50 a.m., Karen Lewellen wrote:
> > > > >  Hi there,
> > > > > >  You know something I have a hard time picturing what closed back
> > > > 

Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Karen Lewellen via talk 

| To be sure, the idea of noise cancellation, or any variation's is a no,

I never suggested noise cancellation.  That's a whole other kettle of
fish.

I talked about "closed" vs "open".  Your existing headphones are
"closed", according to the specs I read.

That means that they block sound travelling through the outside of the
cup.  They block sound two ways: leaking from the headphone to the
room and from the room to the ear.

I thought that if you are using your reader, you might still want to
hear what's happening in the room, albeit in an attenuated way.  For
example, you might want to hear other people in the room.  Or you
might not.  That's why I mentioned closed vs. open as a choice.

Nicholas had other considerations for the open / closed choice.  They were 
beyond my experience or knowledge.

| not
| just because of the  sense of position, but because I have something talking
| in my ears when I use them in this particular setting..no phone ringing, door
| bells, or the all important music  playing  in the background.

I don't quite understand.  If you have someone talking in you ears, do
you want to hear them or block them out?

| As I have been a radio producer, and professional singer for many many years,
| over the ear headphones are the most comfortable, speaking personally.
| I  truly dislike earbuds, they tend not to stay in my ears, to put pressure on
| my ear canal etc...and the buttons are a no, mic interferes with  the machine.

The specs I saw said your existing headphones had buttons but did not
say what the buttons did.



| The most important thing, for this particular set of headphones though is
| A combination of frequency range, sensitivity, impedance, and driver
| units...oh and input power.

I understood that these phones were for a reader.  I cannot imagine
that frequency range would be critical.  I would not imagine that
stereo mattered.

| a few settings in the wrong direction, and the headphones will make me
| dizzy..literary.

Very important point!  I imagine that's mostly about phase problems or
artifacts of noise cancellation.

If I understood correctly that this is for your Kurzweil reader, I suspect 
monophonic headphones would be fine.  If you used the headphones 
monophonically, would that prevent dizziness?

| And those numbers can be device specific, what I will use for my reading edge,
| differs for what I use for production, or music listening, or whatever.
| It is part of why once found I may buy more than one pair.
| Cannot fault you for using the same ones  since the 80's. Had a set once I got
| from radio shack that I used for  more than a decade as well.
| Goodness but I miss radio shack.

I just took a dead (but not leaky!) Radio Shack 9v battery out of nework 
tester that I hadn't used in some time.

The Source still exists (unlike US Radio Shack).  But it has devolved.  
They still have headphones.  And their page has filters -- I'm not sure 
that they'd work for you.



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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Karen Lewellen via talk]

I actually hit upon impedance here because that is  the one number 
generally that does not match the specifications I am using for  this 
particular search.
That being said,  the surgery in question took place in 1992.  It would be 
more than a decade before this incident could even be measured and 
diagnosed, and  almost two or so before  some of the science started to 
provide options, and that is still changing.

Kare



On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:


| From: Karen Lewellen via talk 

| However, this is a fine example of my personal issue...I cannot use them.
| The impedance on this model is 24, and they make me dizzy.
| I do have production assistants use them, and in all these years the ear pads
| remain flawless.

I don't see how impedance could have anything to do with making you
dizzy.  Could you explain?

I'm not saying those headphones don't make you dizzy.  But it would be
very interesting to know the mechanism.

If I had to guess at a factor that might cause dizziness, I'd pick
problems with phase.  That would imply serious filters, I'd think.
Plain old passive headphones don't have fancy filters.

Perhaps one driver wired backwards: that would make one signal 180
degrees out of phase.  But that doesn't seem like an easy mistake to
make.  (It is easy on some home stereo's the swap the lines into a
speaker.)
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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Karen Lewellen via talk 

| However, this is a fine example of my personal issue...I cannot use them.
| The impedance on this model is 24, and they make me dizzy.
| I do have production assistants use them, and in all these years the ear pads
| remain flawless.

I don't see how impedance could have anything to do with making you
dizzy.  Could you explain?

I'm not saying those headphones don't make you dizzy.  But it would be
very interesting to know the mechanism.

If I had to guess at a factor that might cause dizziness, I'd pick
problems with phase.  That would imply serious filters, I'd think.
Plain old passive headphones don't have fancy filters.

Perhaps one driver wired backwards: that would make one signal 180
degrees out of phase.  But that doesn't seem like an easy mistake to
make.  (It is easy on some home stereo's the swap the lines into a
speaker.)
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Re: [GTALUG] decent cheap ChromeOS tablet -- can run debian in a container

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: o1bigtenor via talk 

| Is dual boot better than blowing away the android system and installing
| an OS?

I think that you mean blowing away the ChromeOS system.

I don't know if that is possible.  I know that this was possible on at
least some x86-based CromeOS clamshells.  The Arm world is less
standardized so it's not a sure thing.  Best to search for others who
have done this.

In my modest experience most x86 boxes sold with Windows can be easily
switched to Linux.  That's a better direction to go for Linux on bare
metal.

| I'm a long time debian user - - - trying to decide between debian or
| galliumOS - - - suggestions?

I have no experience will galliumOS.
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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Karen Lewellen via talk]

Hi nick,
I still owe you a response to your note about cellphones, audiophiles, and
in the ear monitors...imagine a scrunched face  here.
Speaking personally, one does not enjoy quality music on a cellphone 
smiles.
This audiophile uses a real stereo with real speakers  with her real vinyl 
collection.
To answer your  question, I was given too much anesthetic during an eye 
surgery resulting in a vascular accident to a very  tiny part of my brain. 
In the area that processes speech.
There are solutions,  perhaps consult the book  "the brain's way of 
healing." or even the CBC special.
Anyway, one result is issues with some frequencies.  Aside from 
headphones, rather a few cell phones, even cordless phones  create the 
same  impact,  I can get dizzy,  with some far far worse factors if 
exposure  continues for a long time.

My cell for example is a lg flip phone, not  a smartphone.
It seems? that the closer to analog, the happier my brain happens to be.
Because I am a singer, some of the doctors discussed  in the above 
referenced book  began healing this part of my brain, neural plasticity is a 
magical thing.

Could not finish due to expense at the time however.
Intend returning, with everything crossed staff with the Listening centre 
here in Toronto remain well.
Long answer to a short question, but long before I had a solution, I was 
choosing my audio gear very carefully, and my needs differ depending on 
the device in question.
One set of headphone needs for my talking computer, another for my stereo, 
a third for my portable Walkman etc.

Does this make sense?
Kare



On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Nicholas Krause wrote:


Karen,
What do you mean by dizzy actually? Normally that or fatigue is a comfort or 
sound sensitivity issue.
For example, these days I've very sensitive to frequencies in the mid range 
and mid treble. That's
about 400hz - 1khz and 6khz-10khz. You may want to figure out if your 
sensitive to sound issues in
certain parts of the spectrum. Or perhaps you mean something else. This is 
just my experience with

various people.

Good luck with your search through,
Nick

On 1/14/22 15:10, Karen Lewellen wrote:

 Hi  Erica,
 The Sony Mdr-7506 headphones have been a staple of audio production for
 honestly decades.  I got my pair in hmmm2004 or 2005.
 However, this is a fine example of my personal issue...I cannot use them.
 The impedance on this model is 24, and they make me dizzy.
 I do have production assistants use them, and in all these years the ear
 pads remain flawless.
 That being said, I may be reaching out to  Sony directly, as my e-mail
 exchange with JVC is becoming rather frustrating smiles.
 best,
 Kare



 On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Erica Peterson wrote:

>  You may have better luck picking a few common brands and going to the 
>  manufacturer websites.  Sony, for example, will let you select multiple 
>  models for comparison across features: 
>  https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/headphones/t/headband-headphones
> 
>  FWIW, about 5 years ago I got a Sony MDR-7506 headset -- admittedly, not 
>  based on any sort of audiophile specs, but because I'd seen them used in 
>  recording studios and figured that was a strong point in their favor.  
>  I'm still very happy with it but with two small quibbles: (1) the cable 
>  doesn't detach, so it would be a pain to replace if I were to damage it, 
>  and (2) the material covering the pads degrades after a few years.  I 
>  just replaced the pads with "Wicked Cushions" from Amazon, which are 
>  made to fit popular headset models.  The Wicked Cushions are great so 
>  far.
> 
>  Erica
> 
>  ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> 
>  On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 1:02 AM, Nicholas Krause via talk 
>   wrote:
> 
> >  On 2022-01-14 12:50 a.m., Karen Lewellen wrote:
> > 
> > >  Hi there,
> > > 
> > >  You know something I have a hard time picturing what closed back
> > > 
> > >  actually means.
> > > 
> > >  to my imagination open back means nothing behind my head, which is 
> > >  my
> > > 
> > >  preference. are closed back those behind your head then?
> > > 
> > >  I agree on 32 for impedance..but sometimes they are higher. even 
> > >  with
> > > 
> > >  no amp involved.
> > > 
> > >  Kare
> > 
> >  Karen,
> > 
> >  Open Backs have open grills or leak sound through the outer part of 
> >  the
> > 
> >  ear cups. They don't isolated sound the way most headphones do. You
> > 
> >  don't see them outside of the audiophile market. The problem with
> > 
> >  closing or isolating sound is frequency issues basically. Sound stage 
> >  is
> > 
> >  one big improvement on them as you can let the drivers actually 
> >  breathe.
> > 
> >  Most consumer amps in cellphones or whatever can get about 60-90 ohms 
> >  if
> > 
> >  your asking. So anything beyond that is not good. This is a problem 
> >  for
> > 
> >  IEMS in the audiophile market as they have to gear them for cellphones
> > 
> >  actually so most are around 32-48 ohms from memory.
> > 
> >  

Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Nicholas Krause via talk]

Karen,
What do you mean by dizzy actually? Normally that or fatigue is a comfort or 
sound sensitivity issue.
For example, these days I've very sensitive to frequencies in the mid range and 
mid treble. That's
about 400hz - 1khz and 6khz-10khz. You may want to figure out if your sensitive 
to sound issues in
certain parts of the spectrum. Or perhaps you mean something else. This is just 
my experience with
various people.

Good luck with your search through,
Nick

On 1/14/22 15:10, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Hi  Erica,
The Sony Mdr-7506 headphones have been a staple of audio production for 
honestly decades.  I got my pair in hmmm2004 or 2005.
However, this is a fine example of my personal issue...I cannot use them.
The impedance on this model is 24, and they make me dizzy.
I do have production assistants use them, and in all these years the ear pads 
remain flawless.
That being said, I may be reaching out to  Sony directly, as my e-mail exchange 
with JVC is becoming rather frustrating smiles.
best,
Kare



On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Erica Peterson wrote:


You may have better luck picking a few common brands and going to the 
manufacturer websites.  Sony, for example, will let you select multiple models 
for comparison across features: 
https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/headphones/t/headband-headphones

FWIW, about 5 years ago I got a Sony MDR-7506 headset -- admittedly, not based on any 
sort of audiophile specs, but because I'd seen them used in recording studios and figured 
that was a strong point in their favor.  I'm still very happy with it but with two small 
quibbles: (1) the cable doesn't detach, so it would be a pain to replace if I were to 
damage it, and (2) the material covering the pads degrades after a few years.  I just 
replaced the pads with "Wicked Cushions" from Amazon, which are made to fit 
popular headset models.  The Wicked Cushions are great so far.

Erica

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 1:02 AM, Nicholas Krause via talk 
 wrote:


On 2022-01-14 12:50 a.m., Karen Lewellen wrote:


Hi there,

You know something I have a hard time picturing what closed back

actually means.

to my imagination open back means nothing behind my head, which is my

preference. are closed back those behind your head then?

I agree on 32 for impedance..but sometimes they are higher. even with

no amp involved.

Kare


Karen,

Open Backs have open grills or leak sound through the outer part of the

ear cups. They don't isolated sound the way most headphones do. You

don't see them outside of the audiophile market. The problem with

closing or isolating sound is frequency issues basically. Sound stage is

one big improvement on them as you can let the drivers actually breathe.

Most consumer amps in cellphones or whatever can get about 60-90 ohms if

your asking. So anything beyond that is not good. This is a problem for

IEMS in the audiophile market as they have to gear them for cellphones

actually so most are around 32-48 ohms from memory.

Nick


On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Nicholas Krause wrote:


On 2022-01-13 4:25 p.m., Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:


Hi there,

Fine and interesting list.

To be sure, the idea of noise cancellation, or any variation's is a no,

not just because of the sense of position, but because I have

something

talking in my ears when I use them in this particular setting..no phone

ringing, door bells, or the all important music playing in the

background.

As I have been a radio producer, and professional singer for many many

years, over the ear headphones are the most comfortable, speaking

personally.

I truly dislike earbuds, they tend not to stay in my ears, to put

pressure on my ear canal etc...and the buttons are a no, mic interferes

with the machine.

The most important thing, for this particular set of headphones

though is

A combination of frequency range, sensitivity, impedance, and driver

units...oh and input power.

a few settings in the wrong direction, and the headphones will make me

dizzy..literary.

And those numbers can be device specific, what I will use for my

reading

edge, differs for what I use for production, or music listening, or

whatever.

It is part of why once found I may buy more than one pair.

Cannot fault you for using the same ones since the 80's. Had a set

once

I got from radio shack that I used for more than a decade as well.

Goodness but I miss radio shack.

Kare


Greetings Karen,

I would not find the model in the previous email. However, my two sense

are over ear can mean different things. A current pair of headphones was

stated that but it's more what Hugh was calling something else.

The other things were I normally prefer open backed as it's the only way

to not screw around with frequency issues. I've my reasons. As to

standard closed backs AKG, Sennheiser, Sony are the big good players

from memory. I'm not sure of the site design for your needs so sorry :(.

Your original pair was around 200 

Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Karen Lewellen via talk]

Hi  Erica,
The Sony Mdr-7506 headphones have been a staple of audio production for 
honestly decades.  I got my pair in hmmm2004 or 2005.

However, this is a fine example of my personal issue...I cannot use them.
The impedance on this model is 24, and they make me dizzy.
I do have production assistants use them, and in all these years the 
ear pads remain flawless.
That being said, I may be reaching out to  Sony directly, as my e-mail 
exchange with JVC is becoming rather frustrating smiles.

best,
Kare



On Fri, 14 Jan 2022, Erica Peterson wrote:


You may have better luck picking a few common brands and going to the 
manufacturer websites.  Sony, for example, will let you select multiple models 
for comparison across features: 
https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/headphones/t/headband-headphones

FWIW, about 5 years ago I got a Sony MDR-7506 headset -- admittedly, not based on any 
sort of audiophile specs, but because I'd seen them used in recording studios and figured 
that was a strong point in their favor.  I'm still very happy with it but with two small 
quibbles: (1) the cable doesn't detach, so it would be a pain to replace if I were to 
damage it, and (2) the material covering the pads degrades after a few years.  I just 
replaced the pads with "Wicked Cushions" from Amazon, which are made to fit 
popular headset models.  The Wicked Cushions are great so far.

Erica

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 1:02 AM, Nicholas Krause via talk 
 wrote:


On 2022-01-14 12:50 a.m., Karen Lewellen wrote:


Hi there,

You know something I have a hard time picturing what closed back

actually means.

to my imagination open back means nothing behind my head, which is my

preference. are closed back those behind your head then?

I agree on 32 for impedance..but sometimes they are higher. even with

no amp involved.

Kare


Karen,

Open Backs have open grills or leak sound through the outer part of the

ear cups. They don't isolated sound the way most headphones do. You

don't see them outside of the audiophile market. The problem with

closing or isolating sound is frequency issues basically. Sound stage is

one big improvement on them as you can let the drivers actually breathe.

Most consumer amps in cellphones or whatever can get about 60-90 ohms if

your asking. So anything beyond that is not good. This is a problem for

IEMS in the audiophile market as they have to gear them for cellphones

actually so most are around 32-48 ohms from memory.

Nick


On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Nicholas Krause wrote:


On 2022-01-13 4:25 p.m., Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:


Hi there,

Fine and interesting list.

To be sure, the idea of noise cancellation, or any variation's is a no,

not just because of the sense of position, but because I have

something

talking in my ears when I use them in this particular setting..no phone

ringing, door bells, or the all important music playing in the

background.

As I have been a radio producer, and professional singer for many many

years, over the ear headphones are the most comfortable, speaking

personally.

I truly dislike earbuds, they tend not to stay in my ears, to put

pressure on my ear canal etc...and the buttons are a no, mic interferes

with the machine.

The most important thing, for this particular set of headphones

though is

A combination of frequency range, sensitivity, impedance, and driver

units...oh and input power.

a few settings in the wrong direction, and the headphones will make me

dizzy..literary.

And those numbers can be device specific, what I will use for my

reading

edge, differs for what I use for production, or music listening, or

whatever.

It is part of why once found I may buy more than one pair.

Cannot fault you for using the same ones since the 80's. Had a set

once

I got from radio shack that I used for more than a decade as well.

Goodness but I miss radio shack.

Kare


Greetings Karen,

I would not find the model in the previous email. However, my two sense

are over ear can mean different things. A current pair of headphones was

stated that but it's more what Hugh was calling something else.

The other things were I normally prefer open backed as it's the only way

to not screw around with frequency issues. I've my reasons. As to

standard closed backs AKG, Sennheiser, Sony are the big good players

from memory. I'm not sure of the site design for your needs so sorry :(.

Your original pair was around 200 dollars from memory and they all

have something good in that price point to my knowledge.

As to weight normally anything under 400 grams is fine for most people.

And for impendance it should be 32 ohms or less if your not using an

actual amp.

Take care,

Nick


On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:


| From: Karen Lewellen via talk talk@gtalug.org


| If you desire a visual idea then perhaps google jvc ha-s44x.

Thanks.

From past discussions, I know your shopping technique isn't 

Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Alex Kink via talk]

Yes, not sure why I left that hanging.

I have two separate friends who purchased the current top end Bose noise 
cancelling headphones (model 700) when they came out about 2 years ago.
Somehow, these units failed the same way for both people, few months after the 
1 year warranty passed. The failure is in the "computer" part of the headphones 
(after all, modern wireless headphones are essentially computers with speakers 
and microphones attached to them). They no longer "boot up" and throw an error 
code (expressed as a blinking pattern of the LED). There is a lot of reports 
about this on forums/reddit but I don't know how prevalent this issue actually 
is. It might be a freak accident that the two people that I know both 
experienced the same.

In both cases, Bose said that there is nothing they can do and offered a 47% 
discount on a new pair. This is not a bad discount, if you've gotten several 
years out of your pair, but in this scenario it means shelling out $240/year.

Long story short, when I buy a pair of earphones I expect them to last 5+ years 
and this is probably not something one can reasonably expect from modern ear 
computers because of all the added complexity and built in batteries. The above 
has left me hesitant to buy another Bose product.

I have to add here, that I've had 3 pairs of Bose earphones (more primitive 
models than the modern ones) over the last 15 years that have served me 
reasonably well.

> On Jan 14, 2022, at 11:56, David Mason  wrote:
> 
> On Jan 14, 2022, 11:25 AM -0500, GTALUG Talk , wrote:
> I have to add though, that I won't be buying Bose going forward for other 
> reasons however.
> Of course, when you say that everyone (or at least me) wonders what those 
> reasons might be. :-)
> 
> ../Dave

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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[David Mason via talk]

On Jan 14, 2022, 11:25 AM -0500, GTALUG Talk , wrote:
> I have to add though, that I won't be buying Bose going forward for other 
> reasons however.
Of course, when you say that everyone (or at least me) wonders what those 
reasons might be. :-)

../Dave
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Re: [GTALUG] decent cheap ChromeOS tablet -- can run debian in a container

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 11:06 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> | From: James Knott via talk 
> |
> | I borrowed one from the Mississauga Library and wasn't impressed. You pretty
> | much had to do everything in the "cloud", though having Linux built in would
> | improve on that.
>
> The idea of ChromeOS is "cloud first".  But there is some provision
> for doing offline work.
>
> If you use Android apps on this tablet, you get and Android
> experience.  But better because you device support is much longer.
>
> If you install Linux, you get a Linux experience.  With the expected
> amount of cloudiness.

Chose to get one of these babies for trying a tablet.

wondering -- - so a couple questions:

Is dual boot better than blowing away the android system and installing
an OS?

I'm a long time debian user - - - trying to decide between debian or
galliumOS - - - suggestions?

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Alex Kink via talk]

> On Jan 14, 2022, at 08:24, Erica Peterson via talk  wrote:
> 
> (2) the material covering the pads degrades after a few years.  I just 
> replaced the pads with "Wicked Cushions" from Amazon, which are made to fit 
> popular headset models.  The Wicked Cushions are great so far.
It is normal and expected for ear cushions to wear out over time. This is a 
considerations that I have when buying a new pair of headphones: 1) are the ear 
cushions replaceable and 2) does the manufacturer sell them as a separate part?

For most of the earphones that are better than no name crap the answer is 
usually yes and yes. Bose has been particularly good to me with this. Last year 
they sent me a free set for 8+ year old headphones when I called them to 
inquire how to buy them. I have to add though, that I won't be buying Bose 
going forward for other reasons however.---
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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[Erica Peterson via talk]

You may have better luck picking a few common brands and going to the 
manufacturer websites.  Sony, for example, will let you select multiple models 
for comparison across features: 
https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/headphones/t/headband-headphones

FWIW, about 5 years ago I got a Sony MDR-7506 headset -- admittedly, not based 
on any sort of audiophile specs, but because I'd seen them used in recording 
studios and figured that was a strong point in their favor.  I'm still very 
happy with it but with two small quibbles: (1) the cable doesn't detach, so it 
would be a pain to replace if I were to damage it, and (2) the material 
covering the pads degrades after a few years.  I just replaced the pads with 
"Wicked Cushions" from Amazon, which are made to fit popular headset models.  
The Wicked Cushions are great so far.

Erica

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 1:02 AM, Nicholas Krause via talk 
 wrote:

> On 2022-01-14 12:50 a.m., Karen Lewellen wrote:
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> > You know something I have a hard time picturing what closed back
> >
> > actually means.
> >
> > to my imagination open back means nothing behind my head, which is my
> >
> > preference. are closed back those behind your head then?
> >
> > I agree on 32 for impedance..but sometimes they are higher. even with
> >
> > no amp involved.
> >
> > Kare
>
> Karen,
>
> Open Backs have open grills or leak sound through the outer part of the
>
> ear cups. They don't isolated sound the way most headphones do. You
>
> don't see them outside of the audiophile market. The problem with
>
> closing or isolating sound is frequency issues basically. Sound stage is
>
> one big improvement on them as you can let the drivers actually breathe.
>
> Most consumer amps in cellphones or whatever can get about 60-90 ohms if
>
> your asking. So anything beyond that is not good. This is a problem for
>
> IEMS in the audiophile market as they have to gear them for cellphones
>
> actually so most are around 32-48 ohms from memory.
>
> Nick
>
> > On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Nicholas Krause wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-01-13 4:25 p.m., Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi there,
> > > >
> > > > Fine and interesting list.
> > > >
> > > > To be sure, the idea of noise cancellation, or any variation's is a no,
> > > >
> > > > not just because of the sense of position, but because I have
> > > >
> > > > something
> > > >
> > > > talking in my ears when I use them in this particular setting..no phone
> > > >
> > > > ringing, door bells, or the all important music playing in the
> > > >
> > > > background.
> > > >
> > > > As I have been a radio producer, and professional singer for many many
> > > >
> > > > years, over the ear headphones are the most comfortable, speaking
> > > >
> > > > personally.
> > > >
> > > > I truly dislike earbuds, they tend not to stay in my ears, to put
> > > >
> > > > pressure on my ear canal etc...and the buttons are a no, mic interferes
> > > >
> > > > with the machine.
> > > >
> > > > The most important thing, for this particular set of headphones
> > > >
> > > > though is
> > > >
> > > > A combination of frequency range, sensitivity, impedance, and driver
> > > >
> > > > units...oh and input power.
> > > >
> > > > a few settings in the wrong direction, and the headphones will make me
> > > >
> > > > dizzy..literary.
> > > >
> > > > And those numbers can be device specific, what I will use for my
> > > >
> > > > reading
> > > >
> > > > edge, differs for what I use for production, or music listening, or
> > > >
> > > > whatever.
> > > >
> > > > It is part of why once found I may buy more than one pair.
> > > >
> > > > Cannot fault you for using the same ones since the 80's. Had a set
> > > >
> > > > once
> > > >
> > > > I got from radio shack that I used for more than a decade as well.
> > > >
> > > > Goodness but I miss radio shack.
> > > >
> > > > Kare
> > >
> > > Greetings Karen,
> > >
> > > I would not find the model in the previous email. However, my two sense
> > >
> > > are over ear can mean different things. A current pair of headphones was
> > >
> > > stated that but it's more what Hugh was calling something else.
> > >
> > > The other things were I normally prefer open backed as it's the only way
> > >
> > > to not screw around with frequency issues. I've my reasons. As to
> > >
> > > standard closed backs AKG, Sennheiser, Sony are the big good players
> > >
> > > from memory. I'm not sure of the site design for your needs so sorry :(.
> > >
> > > Your original pair was around 200 dollars from memory and they all
> > >
> > > have something good in that price point to my knowledge.
> > >
> > > As to weight normally anything under 400 grams is fine for most people.
> > >
> > > And for impendance it should be 32 ohms or less if your not using an
> > >
> > > actual amp.
> > >
> > > Take care,
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > > > On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > |