Re: [OSM-talk] New Video Tutorial: Presets in Potlatch
Margie Roswell wrote: I admit to being disappointed in viewership on this one. Can anyone help to get the word out about this video? Those who know about the video are probably using JOSM. Potlach's target audience who would benefit from the video probably does not read the mailing lists... On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Margie Roswell mrosw...@gmail.com wrote: Here's another new video tutorial: OSM Tutorial - Using the Keyboard to Save Presets in Potlatch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAnt2RSaEEAfmt=18 The 55-second video will help you to work more efficiently in OpenStreetMap.org's Potlatch Editor. Reference: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potlatch/Keyboard_shortcuts ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] haiti effort in New Scientist
http://bit.ly/dceDqc Apologies to those who get their New Scientist closer to publication date The team working on Haiti mapping get a good write up here ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On Wed, 3 Feb 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: I suspect you will have opponents, though, because having physical characteristics that can accommodate a bike is not verifiable. Actually I think it is verifiable as cycleways have design characteristics which provide inspiration for this ability to verify on the ground. But as there are only so many days in a week and I am not able to research this proposal thoroughly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: this is valid for England and maybe Scotland and Wales (and probably some other countries), but it is not working on a worldwide basis. Your definition would in most of central Europe not be functioning: routers would lead pedestrians in areas where they are not allowed to walk (cycleways). Nobody would tag them with foot=no because it's obvious ;-) that you can't walk there. foot=yes would be the exception. Um, yes, I do know the rules vary between countries. There are two ways you can handle that. Firstly, like I say, you can accept that highway=cycleway implies foot=yes and bicycle=yes. Which it does for exactly the same reason that the tags are in English, the server code is in Ruby and this mailing list is called talk rather than frogs: the chap who got there first decides. And your argument that people won't tag highway=cycleway; foot=no but will tag highway=path; bicycle=designated; foot=no is batshit insane. Or, you can agree that highway=cycleway will mean something different in Germany to the UK. No-one is stopping you from doing this. And, funnily enough, it's exactly what we do with most other values for the highway tag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway#International_equivalence When you write about meaning you should keep in mind that what seems obvious for you isn't for someone with a different background, but he might rather think that the opposite is obvious. When you write you should make strenuous efforts to be not quite so patronising. :p cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Fwd-Nav4All-navigation-shut-down-by-Navteq-tp4488024p4506379.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
In your letter dated Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:18:09 +0100 you wrote: Am 03.02.2010 00:38, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, NopMap wrote: In contrast, I believe that there actually are people who try to listen to the sorrows of (potential) newcomers and want to lower the learning curve. Way too few, though. Fixed tagging rules are not needed to lower the learning curve. Could you please explain this? Fixed tagging rules will very certainly lower the learning curve to getting things on the map. You failed to explain the alternatives ... I understand that the anarchy is a nightmare for tool writers. Keeping up with all new features and variants that are invented all over the world must cost a lot of effort. But from a mapper point of view, I don't see the problem. When I see a bike path, I tag it as cycleway. I'm vaguely aware of all the discussion about this, but I don't care. And I think that goes for a lot of mappers. When you know the basic set, you can start mapping. I don't know why the openstreetmap wiki doesn't work on my FreeBSD 8.0 installation, but I think one the .nl pages has a nice list of all the different road types, and how they should be tagged. I do think that, at least for road types, beginner guides should be localized. The road system is different in every country, and you have to map from the local situation, to the OSM tags. --- End of Forwarded Message ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Video Tutorial: Presets in Potlatch
Margie Roswell wrote: I admit to being disappointed in viewership on this one. Can anyone help to get the word out about this video? Video's great! A couple of good places to promote it would be: - newbies@ mailing list - http://forum.openstreetmap.org/ (log on with your usual - Potlatch pages on the wiki - you could replace the current Video tutorial showmedo link with a link to a new page of video tutorials cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/New-Video-Tutorial-Presets-in-Potlatch-tp4497563p4506427.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Richard Fairhurst wrote: And your argument that people won't tag highway=cycleway; foot=no but will tag highway=path; bicycle=designated; foot=no is batshit insane. IMHO, the argument is perfectly valid. The problem with highway=cycleway and pedestrians isn't that adding a foot=no would be too much effort. The problem is that some people, while they wouldn't mind adding it, don't know that they need to add it in the first place. Therefore, the number of tags isn't the issue here, but rather whether the tags are prone to misinterpretation. Generally, the more implicit assumptions you associate with a tag, the more probable it is that someone's implicit assumptions are different from yours. That's why a largely meaningless object like path has a certain appeal. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Any way, back to the original post Nokia is saying Nav4All's is wrong... http://www.tietokone.fi/uutiset/nokia_kiistaa_kilpailijan_navigoinnin_tappamisen http://translate.google.com/translate?js=yprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=1eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tietokone.fi%2Fuutiset%2Fnokia_kiistaa_kilpailijan_navigoinnin_tappamisensl=fitl=en ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Tobias Knerr wrote: IMHO, the argument is perfectly valid. The problem with highway= cycleway and pedestrians isn't that adding a foot=no would be too much effort. The problem is that some people, while they wouldn't mind adding it, don't know that they need to add it in the first place. Therefore, the number of tags isn't the issue here, but rather whether the tags are prone to misinterpretation. I can happily assure you your fears are groundless. In the UK, our major routes are classed as trunk roads, primary A roads, and non-primary A roads. You might recognise a few of these words. Not so fast. In fact, these map to OSM tags as follows: trunk road - highway=trunk (and, optional, operator=Highways Agency) primary A road - highway=trunk non-primary A road - highway=primary Yes, you did read that right. UK _non-primary_ A roads are tagged as highway=primary. That is 300 times more open to misinterpretation than the cycleway example. Yet we cope. In fact we cope very well: pretty much all these roads are now mapped, and tagged correctly. On rare occasions we need to point a newbie in the right place, but because we've documented it and been consistent in how we use it on the map, 99% of the time they just get it. I'm sure you super-efficient German guys could do an even better job of educating people about the highway=cycleway tag than we do about highway=trunk. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Fwd-Nav4All-navigation-shut-down-by-Navteq-tp4488024p4506571.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Generally, the more implicit assumptions you associate with a tag, the more probable it is that someone's implicit assumptions are different from yours. That's why a largely meaningless object like path has a certain appeal. I've always felt (whatever the wiki says) that path is a vague description for something which could be more accurately defined in much the same way as road is. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: ...routers would lead pedestrians in areas where they are not allowed to walk (cycleways). Nonsense. There'll be a footway alongside that they can use (99.999% of the time). If you want to micro-map a footway as well, and put foot=no on the cycleway, feel free. But unless you've micro-mapped the footway, you should *not* be adding foot=no explicitly or implicitly, unless there really is no route. And the simplest way to show that it has been micromapped is to put an explicit foot=no on the cycleway when you've done it. I can see why this sort of nonsense would put a commercial router off - it may not affect their current service, but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it? Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: That is 300 times more open to misinterpretation than the cycleway example. Yet we cope. That's because the English have been trained to cope with stuff that nobody else understands for approximately the last 500 years, by way of ball games. --- start quote fixed playing rules --- There are two sides, one out in the field the other one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side hat's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out. When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game. --- end quote --- Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Richard Mann wrote: On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: ...routers would lead pedestrians in areas where they are not allowed to walk (cycleways). Nonsense. There'll be a footway alongside that they can use (99.999% of the time). If you want to micro-map a footway as well, and put foot=no on the cycleway, feel free. But unless you've micro-mapped the footway, you should *not* be adding foot=no explicitly or implicitly, unless there really is no route. And the simplest way to show that it has been micromapped is to put an explicit foot=no on the cycleway when you've done it. Micro-mapping is only appropriate where there IS a separately marked pedestrian area on the ground. SOME cycleways do have 'no pedestrian' markings, just as some footpaths have 'no cycles' but the main discussion should be providing a macro level view of the 'data'. On the whole, a simple single way may well define the route for cars, bikes, and people. What needs to be clear is where these routes separate into sections that are specific to each target. Micro-mapping the physical areas on the ground is the ultimate, but showing separate pedestrian and cycle crossing points, and linking them to foot and bike only routes is something of a mess currently? I can see why this sort of nonsense would put a commercial router off - it may not affect their current service, but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Thanks Andy, after all these years I finally understand cricket. My life is complete. Adrian. --- On Wed, 3/2/10, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq To: 'Frederik Ramm' frede...@remote.org, 'Richard Fairhurst' rich...@systemed.net Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Date: Wednesday, 3 February, 2010, 12:13 Frederik Ramm wrote: Sent: 03 February 2010 11:38 AM To: Richard Fairhurst Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: That is 300 times more open to misinterpretation than the cycleway example. Yet we cope. That's because the English have been trained to cope with stuff that nobody else understands for approximately the last 500 years, by way of ball games. --- start quote fixed playing rules --- There are two sides, one out in the field the other one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side hat's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out. When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game. --- end quote --- Ah, but the rules have changed. We now have three umpires. The third stays in but decides if those who are in are out if those umpires who are out are unsure whether those who are in are out or in. This certainly makes the rules a lot simpler don't you think? Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Video Tutorial: Presets in Potlatch
Thanks Richard, David, and Jean-Marc. All good ideas. (I didn't even know about the forum until just now.) I'll probably tackle the page of video tutorials later tonight. (Anyone have any favorites out there?) Best Regards, Margie On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 5:29 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Margie Roswell wrote: I admit to being disappointed in viewership on this one. Can anyone help to get the word out about this video? Video's great! A couple of good places to promote it would be: - newbies@ mailing list - http://forum.openstreetmap.org/ (log on with your usual - Potlatch pages on the wiki - you could replace the current Video tutorial showmedo link with a link to a new page of video tutorials cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/New-Video-Tutorial-Presets-in-Potlatch-tp4497563p4506427.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Margie http://www.BaltimoreUrbanAg.org http://www.FarmersMarketVideo.org http://www.FriendlyCoffeehouse.org http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-5-views-recipes/book ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
2010/2/3 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: Um, yes, I do know the rules vary between countries. Firstly, like I say, you can accept that highway=cycleway implies foot=yes and bicycle=yes. Which it does for exactly the same reason that the tags are in English, the server code is in Ruby and this mailing list is called talk rather than frogs: the chap who got there first decides. well, the chap that first used cycleway might have been an Englishman, and might have had in mind that pedestrians are allowed, when tagging highway=cycleway, but there is absolutely no logic or natural meaning for cycleways to deduct access rights for pedestrians. IMHO the only thing you can assume is bicycle=yes. As the wiki doesn't speak about implications on foot (or at least most of the time didn't), you cannot assume anything for pedestrians on bicycles as long as you don't a) check for the position (inside which country) and local legislation/habits b) have an explicit tag aside (like foot=no/yes) And your argument that people won't tag highway=cycleway; foot=no but will tag highway=path; bicycle=designated; foot=no is batshit insane. I wasn't talking about paths, I was pointing out that walks like a duck, talks like a duck is not working automatically, because German ducks are already too different from English ducks, and I don't want to know about Chinese ducks. Or, you can agree that highway=cycleway will mean something different in Germany to the UK. No-one is stopping you from doing this. And, funnily enough, it's exactly what we do with most other values for the highway tag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway#International_equivalence yes, I agree, still if you made a routing application with more than national coverage you either would have to know all those implications or find detailed tags on the object. I thought the OSM-way was assuming as less implications as possible. Some time ago there weren't even national borders which could have been used to determine which jurisdiction you are in. My intention was to point out, that good documentation and definitions are IMHO needed or at least very helpful for interpreting the data. I wouldn't mind if there were international equivalence lists for every single tag. There are some other false friends btw., some time ago I was advocating to tag an Italian bar as amenity=bar well knowing that in Germany people would expect a different place when seeing a bar than what they'll get in Italy. Still as all of the Italian Bars are called Bar and as they are not really a cafe, tagging them as Bar seems easiest to me. But you cannot make reliable assumptions whether they sell tobacco or ice_cream as long as it is not tagged. The same differences you get for petrol-stations: in Germany it will be hard to find one that doesn't sell tobacco and beer, while in Italy you would hardly find any that sells other than fuel. I agree that it would be better to have a default-list about what to expect in which context, instead of tagging hundreds of redundant tags to all objects, still in particular cases like routing-relevant highway some redundancy like foot=yes/no on cycleways IMHO is improving and clarifying the situation. ... When you write you should make strenuous efforts to be not quite so patronising. :p sorry, I didn't mean to, it's lack of knowledge / practise in language, maybe I don't get the subtones of what I write. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Frederik Ramm wrote: I don't think that the line is between hobby and professional. OSM with their volunteers does one kind of mapping, and TeleAtlas with their vans does another kind of mapping. Each has its own distinctive advantages. There are professional users wo spend money on OSM data when they *already have* TeleAtlas data. The commercial maps have fixed tagging schemes, minimum quality standards and only accept trained personnel as mappers. They have long turnaround times and cost a lot of money to maintain. At OSM we have no fixed tagging schema, *no minimum quality standards* you see that as a positive? Did you mean to write it that way? and anyone can map. We have super fast turnaround times and cost nothing to maintain. Different approaches - different results. Not worse or better; different. I don't see how you could have the advantages without the disadvantages. Add a fixed tagging scheme and peer review to OSM and you get more quality but less data and longer turnaround times; before long you are TeleAtlas v2.0 and have to charge for maps to pay your mappers because nobody does it for fun any more. So, yes, in my eyes the approach is really take it or leave it, and if someone decides he'd rather use TeleAtlas or Navteq then by all means, let him do it. I don't know why Dave F finds this VERY disillusioning; what was his illusion then? A regular here (Foundation member?) said that OSM would perceived to be a success when someone like Google used OSM data. I agree with that when meaning Google's wide scope of deployment. I wouldn't be disappointed if a map creator criticized OSM out of hand because it's free created by the public therefore must be poor. They could always be talked around, but the examples given here are of organizations who have spent a lot of time, effort money trying to integrate OSM into their systems. For them to conclude that OSM isn't good enough is disillusioning. For OSM to rule the world? I think the world is much better of with a few map datasets following different approaches that with a one size fits all But the routing/tagging of OSM doesn't fit anything at the moment. Even the maps produced now with OSM data are expected to be accepted with the OSM foibles built in. In some following posts commercial ventures have been mentioned. I see this as an irrelevance. Whether the map use is to make money or not , if these ventures aren't taking the data because it's unusable then OSM has to be considered to be failing. Again, disillusioning. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Playing tagging democracy: standard building process and tag unifying towards it
John Smith wrote: No but it's a carrot, most people most of the time are only going to map what they can see turn up on mapnik. This point is correct, to bring the thread back to on topic, OSM is best promoted, not by word of mouth as some have said, but by visualization mouth. People will tell their friends about OSM when they see a working map not when present with a long list of XML data. This won't happen if none of the map creators are taking the data because they think it's crap. Cheers Dave F. . ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi, Dave F. wrote: The commercial maps have fixed tagging schemes, minimum quality standards and only accept trained personnel as mappers. They have long turnaround times and cost a lot of money to maintain. At OSM we have no fixed tagging schema, *no minimum quality standards* you see that as a positive? Did you mean to write it that way? I was assessing the pros and cons of either side. Not having minimum quality standards is a con on the OSM side, but the super fast turnaround times which I mentioned next are a pro that would be killed by introducing minimum quality standards. You can have one of them but not both. So, yes, in my eyes the approach is really take it or leave it, and if someone decides he'd rather use TeleAtlas or Navteq then by all means, let him do it. I don't know why Dave F finds this VERY disillusioning; what was his illusion then? A regular here (Foundation member?) said that OSM would perceived to be a success when someone like Google used OSM data. That was surely a very personal statement. Remember, Foundation members are known to hold extreme views. Luckily they are outnumbered by non-member mappers by about 1:500 ;-) But the routing/tagging of OSM doesn't fit anything at the moment. Huh? Whether the map use is to make money or not , if these ventures aren't taking the data because it's unusable then OSM has to be considered to be failing. Again, disillusioning. I think the single most important reason why some ventures don't, and will not, use OSM data is not the quality but the license. ODbL or no ODbL. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: well, the chap that first used cycleway might have been an Englishman, and might have had in mind that pedestrians are allowed, when tagging highway=cycleway, but there is absolutely no logic or natural meaning for cycleways to deduct access rights for pedestrians. Maybe whoever used it first did not think about access rights. OSM always has been a very pragmatic project, and more about what is possible than what is allowed. And there is certainly no cycleway in the world where it is not possible for a pedestrian to walk. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
2010/2/3 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Maybe whoever used it first did not think about access rights. Yes, I'm sure he didn't. We notice these things as the project evolves. OSM always has been a very pragmatic project, and more about what is possible than what is allowed. And there is certainly no cycleway in the world where it is not possible for a pedestrian to walk. Well, I'm personally mapping holes in fences ;-), still it _is_ forbidden to walk on a German/Dutch/French/Italian cycleway, you might get fined (or get problems in case of an accident). There is also no cycleway in the world that doesn't physically permit motorbikes to ride on, and there is no motorway that doesn't physically permit bikes to use it (seeing it all pragmatically). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On 3 February 2010 15:32, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Whether the map use is to make money or not , if these ventures aren't taking the data because it's unusable then OSM has to be considered to be failing. Again, disillusioning. I think the single most important reason why some ventures don't, and will not, use OSM data is not the quality but the license. ODbL or no ODbL. +1 Indeed, for many companies, the only good data is free (as in beer) data, that you don't need to attribute, and that you don't need to contribute back. Anything short of that is too much. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Playing tagging democracy: standard building process and tag unifying towards it
On 3 February 2010 15:38, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: John Smith wrote: No but it's a carrot, most people most of the time are only going to map what they can see turn up on mapnik. This point is correct, to bring the thread back to on topic, OSM is best promoted, not by word of mouth as some have said, but by visualization mouth. People will tell their friends about OSM when they see a working map not when present with a long list of XML data. This won't happen if none of the map creators are taking the data because they think it's crap. I kind of disagree with you on that one. People will use data because it is there. I know several people in commercial environment who don't care that much about how the map is looking. They care about what the database is full of, like administrative boundaries, town location, POI etc You are just taking one point of view, but yours is not unique. I am using the data for commercial use, and I couldn't care less about a map rendering. I can recognize the fact that the data is much richer even if I don't see a point being rendered. It all depends on what you are trying to do with the data. If you want beautiful map, then have a look at some of the rendering that companies like Cloudmade have. They provide some very nice map. I have been promoting OSM not by its map (even though showing the map help) but for its data. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: well, the chap that first used cycleway might have been an Englishman, and might have had in mind that pedestrians are allowed, when tagging highway=cycleway, but there is absolutely no logic or natural meaning for cycleways to deduct access rights for pedestrians. IMHO the only thing you can assume is bicycle=yes. You're missing the point entirely. It doesn't matter whether the English word cycleway, as defined by the Oxford English Dictionary, implies access rights for pedestrians, or for goats, or for St Francis of Assisi. What matters is the context in which that key/value has been used in OSM. And in that case, it's historically been used to imply pedestrian rights too. Exactly analogous to highway=trunk, which, to reiterate, doesn't mean a trunk road in Britain. As the wiki doesn't speak about implications on foot (or at least most of the time didn't) Right. This is another reason why the wiki is made of fail. IIRC Map Features originally documented that cycleway means shared use, reflecting all existing current usage. Some pillock came along and edited it to say mainly for cycles, making it out of step with all existing current usage. Consequently we now have this insane situation where some people are following the original usage and others are following the wiki-fiddlers' usage. I say usage, but there's no evidence that wiki-fiddlers actually use the tags or in fact do any mapping at all. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Dave F. wrote: The commercial maps have fixed tagging schemes, minimum quality standards and only accept trained personnel as mappers. They have long turnaround times and cost a lot of money to maintain. At OSM we have no fixed tagging schema, *no minimum quality standards* you see that as a positive? Did you mean to write it that way? I was assessing the pros and cons of either side. Not having minimum quality standards is a con on the OSM side, but the super fast turnaround times which I mentioned next are a pro that would be killed by introducing minimum quality standards. You can have one of them but not both. So, yes, in my eyes the approach is really take it or leave it, and if someone decides he'd rather use TeleAtlas or Navteq then by all means, let him do it. I don't know why Dave F finds this VERY disillusioning; what was his illusion then? A regular here (Foundation member?) said that OSM would perceived to be a success when someone like Google used OSM data. That was surely a very personal statement. Remember, Foundation members are known to hold extreme views. Luckily they are outnumbered by non-member mappers by about 1:500 ;-) But the routing/tagging of OSM doesn't fit anything at the moment. Huh? Please take that in context with its following sentence. Can you show me a router that can get me door to door no matter where I live? Or a search utility that returns no false-positives? Whether the map use is to make money or not , if these ventures aren't taking the data because it's unusable then OSM has to be considered to be failing. Again, disillusioning. I think the single most important reason why some ventures don't, and will not, use OSM data is not the quality but the license. ODbL or no ODbL. Evidently this incorrect. the examples given here obviously accepted the license by trying to integrate the data. It was rejected because of the lack of quality of the data. -- Emilie Laffray: Indeed, for many companies, the only good data is free (as in beer) data, that you don't need to attribute, and that you don't need to contribute back. Anything short of that is too much. This is incorrect. Let's assume OSM is PD. The above companies would have *still* rejected it. Irrelevant of the license: Garbage in - Garbage out. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi, Dave F. wrote: Please take that in context with its following sentence. Can you show me a router that can get me door to door no matter where I live? Or a search utility that returns no false-positives? Not with OSM, nor with any other dataset available for any amount of money. OSM doesn't let you fly to the moon in 3 seconds either, one of the many shortcomings that continue to disappoint me. I think the single most important reason why some ventures don't, and will not, use OSM data is not the quality but the license. ODbL or no ODbL. Evidently this incorrect. This is getting out of hand, foundations-of-debating-logically-wise. Firstly, you cannot ever have evidence that it is incorrect when I say I think Secondly, just because one or two or indeed n examples exist where someone rejected our data because of quality, this can never prove that there are not n+1 examples where someone rejected our data for another reason. I'm happy to indulge in endless debates but if I have to start explaining the basics of logic then my patience is exhausted. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
2010/2/3 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: What matters is the context in which that key/value has been used in OSM. And in that case, it's historically been used to imply pedestrian rights too. OK. And where can I find this information? If it is not findable, it will not be used. Right. This is another reason why the wiki is made of fail. IIRC Map Features originally documented that cycleway means shared use, reflecting all existing current usage. Some pillock came along and edited it to say mainly for cycles, making it out of step with all existing current usage. The oldest version of highway=cycleway I can find already speaks about mainly or exclusively for cyclists (Oct. 2007). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=Tag:highway%3Dcyclewayoldid=55517 I found another interesting page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions but it doesn't seem to be of any help for the UK: United Kingdom The defaults do not apply. Someone who cares can fix this up. Consequently we now have this insane situation where some people are following the original usage and others are following the wiki-fiddlers' usage. I say usage, but there's no evidence that wiki-fiddlers actually use the tags or in fact do any mapping at all. don't know if you would call me a wiki-fiddler but I am mapping :D cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: OK. And where can I find this information? If it is not findable, it will not be used. Well, there's the rub. As a project, we are crap at documentation. Beyond crap. How anyone ever manages to get started with OSM amazes me. (And if you'll excuse me a hobby-horse, we also have a really exasperating tendency to say: 1. Something is wrong! 2. The wrong thing was done with an editor!!! 3. BAN TEH EDITOR!!1oneas3 or, in its milder form, 3. DEMAND TEH EDITOR IS FIXED IMMEDIATELY!!!11! which is, basically, the community abrogating its responsibility to help others. It's pretty amazing that, until the last couple of weeks, no-one apart from Steve had ever filmed a screencast on how to use Potlatch; and that we still have a Beginners' Guide on the wiki which focuses on the non-beginners' editor.) The oldest version of highway=cycleway I can find already speaks about mainly or exclusively for cyclists (Oct. 2007). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=Tag:highway%3Dcyclewayoldid=55517 IIRC it was documented on Map Features before the individual pages existed. I've tried to look at the history for Map Features on the wiki but, surprise surprise, it bombs out. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Fwd-Nav4All-navigation-shut-down-by-Navteq-tp4488024p4508277.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Dave F. wrote: Please take that in context with its following sentence. Can you show me a router that can get me door to door no matter where I live? Or a search utility that returns no false-positives? Not with OSM, nor with any other dataset available for any amount of money. OSM doesn't let you fly to the moon in 3 seconds either, one of the many shortcomings that continue to disappoint me. I think the single most important reason why some ventures don't, and will not, use OSM data is not the quality but the license. ODbL or no ODbL. Evidently this incorrect. This is getting out of hand, foundations-of-debating-logically-wise. Firstly, you cannot ever have evidence that it is incorrect when I say I think Secondly, just because one or two or indeed n examples exist where someone rejected our data because of quality, this can never prove that there are not n+1 examples where someone rejected our data for another reason. And you can't prove the opposite! Please don't use I think... as a caveat against criticism. However, please, stick to the point of the thread: Lack of quality data what can be done about it. I'm happy to indulge in endless debates but if I have to start explaining the basics of logic then my patience is exhausted. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Playing tagging democracy: standard building process and tag unifying towards it
Emilie Laffray wrote: On 3 February 2010 15:38, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com mailto:dave...@madasafish.com wrote: John Smith wrote: No but it's a carrot, most people most of the time are only going to map what they can see turn up on mapnik. This point is correct, to bring the thread back to on topic, OSM is best promoted, not by word of mouth as some have said, but by visualization mouth. People will tell their friends about OSM when they see a working map not when present with a long list of XML data. This won't happen if none of the map creators are taking the data because they think it's crap. I kind of disagree with you on that one. People will use data because it is there. I know several people in commercial environment who don't care that much about how the map is looking. They care about what the database is full of, like administrative boundaries, town location, POI etc And according to the examples given the (half full) database is believed to be full of gobbledygook. Because of that the data won't be used. Or more accurately isn't being used. You are just taking one point of view, but yours is not unique. Why do people repeatedly attempt to use this inane comment to appear superior in their argument? Of course it's one point of view! Of course it's not unique! I am using the data for commercial use, and I couldn't care less about a map rendering. I can recognize the fact that the data is much richer even if I don't see a point being rendered. It all depends on what you are trying to do with the data. If you want beautiful map, then have a look at some of the rendering that companies like Cloudmade have. They provide some very nice map. I have been promoting OSM not by its map *(even though showing the map help)* That's /my /point so I'm unsure why you're disagreeing with me. but for its data. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Playing tagging democracy: standard building process and tag unifying towards it
Hi, so what about creating a small web application (data exportable into Excel etc.), with a database containing tagging schemes, their idioms, and possible aquivalent semantics? We can get the tagging statistics from tagwatch (I think this won't be enough, I think they do only statistics about each single tag, not their combination), and start with the most common namespace vectors, flamewar platform should be included. How about that? Cheers, Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
In your letter dated Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:52:01 +0100 you wrote: Well, I'm personally mapping holes in fences ;-), still it _is_ forbidden to walk on a German/Dutch/French/Italian cycleway, you might get fined (or get problems in case of an accident). Sorry, it's perfectly alright to walk on a Dutch cycle path if there is no foot path nearby. I hope you didn't get this misinformation from an OSM wiki. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
In your letter dated Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:03:09 + you wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: But the routing/tagging of OSM doesn't fit anything at the moment. Huh? Please take that in context with its following sentence. Can you show me a router that can get me door to door no matter where I live? If the data is not 100% complete and accurate it is useless? Get real. I just tried the Google maps app. on my G1 to get home from work by bike. It was horrible. The app itself is horrible, and the map is bad: bike paths are not there. In contrast, openstreetmap data gets me there by car and bike. The lack of house numbers is annoying though. So it is not door to door, but street to street. And for me that is good enough. And yes, the situation is not as bright in other countries. But I think it is pointless to wait until OSM has 100% perfection everywhere to start using it. Of course lots of people are already using it. Promoting for example openmtbmap over other maps on a Garmin. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, Richard Fairhurst wrote: that we still have a Beginners' Guide on the wiki which focuses on the non-beginners' editor.) I didn't find the Beginners' Guide of 2 years ago helpful. No I didn't write a new one. Yes I did help someone with writing one which was published elsewhere. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Wed, 3 Feb 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: I suspect you will have opponents, though, because having physical characteristics that can accommodate a bike is not verifiable. Actually I think it is verifiable as cycleways have design characteristics which provide inspiration for this ability to verify on the ground. I don't understand, but I hope you're right - look forward to hearing your definition (in a new thread or on the consolidation wiki page). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: That is 300 times more open to misinterpretation than the cycleway example. Yet we cope. So you're arguing that, because you guys are able to cope, these kind of tags are necessarily a good idea? The only thing they avoid is a few keystrokes. Don't get me wrong - I really like your duck test, and in general it works really well. But as I implied before, a cycleway still isn't defined as well as a duck. It may never be... (though I'm still looking forward to a verifiable definition...) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: Ah, but the rules have changed. We now have three umpires. The third stays in but decides if those who are in are out if those umpires who are out are unsure whether those who are in are out or in. This certainly makes the rules a lot simpler don't you think? Then there's the fact that both teams don't necessarily need to be out twice thanks to the follow on Just when you thought you'd got it, we'll add some new rules :-) Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Proposed feature: Gated Communities
Hi people. I'm sending this mail in order to propose a new feature for the tag landuse: gated communities. These are a type of private neighbourhoods that are very common in Argentina, Brazil and many other countries, and have a notorious difference with ordinary city neighbourhoods. If you are interested in this proposal, please visit http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Gated_community to see full details and discuss. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Gated_communityBest regards User Chango640 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM 2010 scholarship?
I second that question. I'd love to be able to attend the conference again. Cheers, Arlindo Pereira 2010/1/25 maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com: Are there plans on doing a similar fundraising for the SOTM 2010 scholarship? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed feature: Gated Communities
2010/2/3 Chango640 chango...@gmail.com: Hi people. I'm sending this mail in order to propose a new feature for the tag landuse: gated communities. These are a type of private neighbourhoods that are very common in Argentina, Brazil and many other countries, and have a notorious difference with ordinary city neighbourhoods. If you are interested in this proposal, please visit http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Gated_community to see full details and discuss. Why not use landuse=residential together with another tag, say community=gated (where community could also become other stuff like religious, seniors, female, ... and or add access=private? Anyway I would suggest to map the extent of the gated area by adding the fence barrier=fence and the entraces / gates. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM 2010 scholarship?
Hi Guys, I think Mikel is going to organise the same scholarship he was involved with last year. He might have some more info. On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Arlindo Pereira openstreet...@arlindopereira.com wrote: I second that question. I'd love to be able to attend the conference again. Cheers, Arlindo Pereira 2010/1/25 maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com: Are there plans on doing a similar fundraising for the SOTM 2010 scholarship? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Multiple Services to a Company/Building
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Are you sure it wouldn't be better to push for amenity=cafe;bakery;atm style multi-tagging instead? IIRC, there is opposition to multi-tagging - (I can't remember exactly who said that or why, though...I suspect it's because you then need to parse every single value string and turn it into a vector, rather than being able to use a much faster equality condition) But I do know that we currently do things like bicycle=designated + foot=designated, instead of designated=bicycle;foot. So my suggestion is more consistent with current practice. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed feature: Gated Communities
I thought about using landusehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:landuse =residential http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dresidential(which I'm already using in cities and towns), but here in Argentina there is a strong difference between ordinary neighbourhoods and gated communities. Despite being called communities, they are actually private neighbourhoods where people pay mainly for a reliable security service (the needs here are different from the ones in developed countries), so you can't go in them as you could in a normal neighbourhood, and usually the people who live in them don't have the kind of relation that they would have if they lived, for example, in religious communities. Besides, these country clubs (as we call them here) are often built in the countryside rather than next to cities, and have some independence. I think that your suggestion for a community tag is a great idea, but this is something different, and wouldn't fit perfectly into that. As the tag landuse http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:landuse=residentialhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dresidentialdoesn't fit all the requirements of a gated community either, I'm making this proposal. About the other suggestions, I agree with you. I may add that in gated communities, the tag barrierhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:barrier =fence http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dfence should be set by default, and the entrances and internal streets should always be drawn. Cheers. Chango640 2010/2/3 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com 2010/2/3 Chango640 chango...@gmail.com: Hi people. I'm sending this mail in order to propose a new feature for the tag landuse: gated communities. These are a type of private neighbourhoods that are very common in Argentina, Brazil and many other countries, and have a notorious difference with ordinary city neighbourhoods. If you are interested in this proposal, please visit http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Gated_community to see full details and discuss. Why not use landuse=residential together with another tag, say community=gated (where community could also become other stuff like religious, seniors, female, ... and or add access=private? Anyway I would suggest to map the extent of the gated area by adding the fence barrier=fence and the entraces / gates. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed feature: Gated Communities
On 4 February 2010 06:24, Chango640 chango...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sending this mail in order to propose a new feature for the tag landuse: gated communities. These are a type of private neighbourhoods that are very common in Argentina, Brazil and many other countries, and have a notorious difference with ordinary city neighbourhoods. I think they exist in most countries. I simply tag the barrier=fence, and use barrier=gate, I didn't use landuse=* tag though The problem tagging most landuses is that it usually requires requires hi-res imagery. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed feature: Gated Communities
2010/2/3 Chango640 chango...@gmail.com: I thought about using landuse=residential (which I'm already using in cities and towns), but here in Argentina there is a strong difference between ordinary neighbourhoods and gated communities. Yes, that's what you are expressing with the subtags acess=private and probably community=gated (and or fenced=yes (?),the barrier around it, etc.). Despite being called communities, they are actually private neighbourhoods where people pay mainly for a reliable security service (the needs here are different from the ones in developed countries), so you can't go in them as you could in a normal neighbourhood, and usually the people who live in them don't have the kind of relation that they would have if they lived, for example, in religious communities. Besides, these country clubs (as we call them here) are often built in the countryside rather than next to cities, and have some independence. so far they seem nothing different from other gated communities in other parts of the world. I think that your suggestion for a community tag is a great idea, but this is something different, and wouldn't fit perfectly into that. As the tag landuse=residential doesn't fit all the requirements of a gated community either, I'm making this proposal. still those gated communities (even if it might be socially absent) have something in common: the developer and the contract their inhabitants usually signed, which limits their civil rights and puts restrictions on all spaces inside the gated community, so that public space disappears. (what I mean: they are a community by contract, even if not by common sense). About the other suggestions, I agree with you. I may add that in gated communities, the tag barrier=fence should be set by default, and the entrances and internal streets should always be drawn. AFAIR the barrier=fence should not be applied to an area, what means in pratical to draw a second way atop the area limits (not really elegant). Another approach is to tag fenced=yes to the area (don't know if someone evaluates this though). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Proposed feature: Gated Communities
On 4 February 2010 08:50, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: AFAIR the barrier=fence should not be applied to an area, what means in pratical to draw a second way atop the area limits (not really elegant). Another approach is to tag fenced=yes to the area (don't know if someone evaluates this though). I don't understand you reasoning for this, a closed way = area, some times the entire area is surrounded by a fence, drawing a second closed way will just make a second area. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Request for user block
Hello, The user osm_king (formerly n_ward) as been doing vandalism edits: building shaped like a penis, insulting changeset comments, creating ways in the middle of the Atlantic ... I kindly asked him to stop and got the following answer: Thanks for your feedback, but you can shove it up your arsehole Who should I contact to have this user blocked from editing? Thanks in advance, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for user block
Nakor wrote: Hello, The user osm_king (formerly n_ward) as been doing vandalism edits: building shaped like a penis, Yeah, I know, it's disgusting what those vandals get up to with their spray cans. ;-) http://www.neatorama.com/2007/07/17/homer-and-the-cerne-abbas-giant/ But you're right, he probably should be terminated. insulting changeset comments, creating ways in the middle of the Atlantic ... I kindly asked him to stop and got the following answer: Thanks for your feedback, but you can shove it up your arsehole Who should I contact to have this user blocked from editing? Thanks in advance, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for user block
On 4 February 2010 12:04, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: But you're right, he probably should be terminated. Is blocking the account going to be enough to prevent someone from simply signing up for a new account and continuing to do what they were unabbated, seems like a cat and mouse game and the cat is really slow to keep tabs on the mouse. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for user block
John Smith wrote: On 4 February 2010 12:04, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: But you're right, he probably should be terminated. Is blocking the account going to be enough to prevent someone from simply signing up for a new account and continuing to do what they were unabbated, seems like a cat and mouse game and the cat is really slow to keep tabs on the mouse. Maybe a more subtle approach would work, i.e., have a bot remove his edits x days after they are saved. That way he can make his changes, show his similarly idiotic friends what he has done, and they will be deleted when he no longer has an interest in them. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for user block
On 4 February 2010 14:58, Randy rwtnospam-new...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe a more subtle approach would work, i.e., have a bot remove his edits x days after they are saved. That way he can make his changes, show his similarly idiotic friends what he has done, and they will be deleted when he no longer has an interest in them. +1 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Multiple Services to a Company/Building
Hello Roy, 1) Do you want all that detail? Yes please :) I understand why you want all that data, but very little of it is being visualized through www.openstreetmap.org, leading on to your next comment: But I don't have my own database - I want to use the OSM database... If you are not post processing the data then you will not likely be able to get any value from the extra data. And if people can not see the data, they won't know it is there, and then it will go out of date very quickly as products that a shop sells will change more often than the road network... even with road maintenance taken into account. With that said, OSM allows users to add as much detail as they want to add... and I am quite happy to add the detail, I just want to find out what is the best way to do that taking into account that this data will likely only be used by people who post-process OSM Data as the renders can not handle all the different options right now. From what I understand the openstreetmap.org map is purely for show and not meant to be THE place to view all the data... its up to other groups to show what they want e.g. cloudmade, cyclemap, etc... Maybe one day we will have pipemap.org showing us the world of pipes that live beneath our world but that is up to pipemap.org and not necessarily openstreetmap.org An alternative is to use something like a namespace concept. I do like the namespace concept, as well as what Steve was saying (Are you sure it wouldn't be better to push for amenity=cafe;bakery;atm style multi-tagging instead). I found it documented here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#What_shall_I_do_for_roads_that_have_multiple_values_for_a_tag.3F. So going with our Spa example: shop=beauty beauty:tanning=yes beauty:massage=yes OR shop=beauty beauty=tanning;massage Multiple values separated by semicolons by far seems to me the simplest way to denote multiple values for a single key with less worry that keys will be overused. I think that maybe namespace option when things get horribly complicated and then the semicolon separated on a shorter/simpler list? Either mechanism is easy enough for people to do post processing on and still be able to group data nicely. Thanks for the feedback so far, it has been a learning experience. Ian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Multiple Services to a Company/Building
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Ian Mc Shane ianmcsh...@live.co.za wrote: From what I understand the openstreetmap.org map is purely for show and not meant to be THE place to view all the data... its up to other groups to show what they want e.g. cloudmade, cyclemap, etc... Yup, this is absolutely right. Data first, users (including renderers!) second. Maybe one day we will have pipemap.org showing us the world of pipes that live beneath our world but that is up to pipemap.org and not necessarily openstreetmap.org Funny you should mention that, because it already exists!: http://elanor.mine.nu/daeron/kartat.php?zoom=16lat=60.19553lon=24.95806layers=B00 I found it documented here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#What_shall_I_do_for_roads_that_have_multiple_values_for_a_tag.3F. Ah, well spotted. Multiple values separated by semicolons by far seems to me the simplest way to denote multiple values for a single key with less worry that keys will be overused. I guess. There's advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. Thanks for the feedback so far, it has been a learning experience. No problem :) Oh, by the way, I just noticed that this thread has been on t...@openstreetmap.org. In future, for tagging-related stuff, please post to tagg...@openstreetmap.org (so those uninterested in tagging threads can ignore them). Cheers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for user block
John Smith wrote: Maybe a more subtle approach would work, i.e., have a bot remove his edits x days after they are saved. That way he can make his changes, show his similarly idiotic friends what he has done, and they will be deleted when he no longer has an interest in them. +1 Paging General Dreedle ... -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] detail omgeving oldenzaal
Hoi Lennard, Ik neem aan dat het om dezelfde gegevens gaat als op: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/ Als er een mogelijkheid om de gemeenten Beesel en Venlo (inclusief Tegelen, Belfeld) te importeren kan ik daar aan verder werken. Bijvoorbeeld: Er ontbreekt nieuwbouw in dit gebied: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=18lat=51.28195lon=6.09466layers=B0T Het landgebruik valt soms niet helemaal samen met de getrackte paden: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=18lat=51.28645lon=6.06708layers=B0T De brandweerkazerne is van niet van struikgewas: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=18lat=51.28685lon=6.07096layers=B0T Maar het zwembad staat er behoorlijk goed op: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=18lat=51.28904lon=6.07374layers=B0T (het rondje moet een kinderbadje zijn). Kortom, als het lukt zou dat fantastisch zijn. Maar ik kan natuurlijk niet inschatten welke projecten er allemaal tijd consumeren... mvg, Rene 2010/2/2 Lennard l...@xs4all.nl: Michiel Faber wrote: Ik weet niet hoe het proces precies loopt en wat ik nodig heb. Wie kan mij vertellen wat ik dan moet doen en eventueel helpen/begeleiden. Zoals Frank en theun wel kunnen beamen, is importeren van deze landuse een intensief proces, voorzien van de nodige mitsen en maren in de data en de verwerking hiervan, en het opruimen van oudere objecten die niet meer nodig zijn en het eventueel overzetten van name tags hiervan. De documentatie die er is, is ook nog steeds in ontwikkeling en niet compleet. Vooral in het opruimen/gelijktrekken van oude vs. 3dshapes data gaat de nodige tijd zitten, terwijl dat wel het belangrijkste aspect is. We kunnen dus ook de data voor je importeren*, in een gebied dat je zelf aangeeft, zodat je alle tijd kunt besteden aan het echte, grote werk. Zeker omdat je lokaal bekend bent. * Importeren moet toch vanaf het 3dShapes account. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] detail omgeving oldenzaal
Rene, Een paar antwoorden op je opmerkingen: * Ontbreken van nieuwbouw: de 3dshapes data is niet helemaal recent. Ik meen dat het de situatie is van 2008. Voor 99% van de gevallen zal het wel goed zijn. * Landgebruik overlapt met paden: een GPS track kan altijd een afwijking hebben van een paar meter. Klimatologische omstandigheden, begroeiing e.d. kunnen de afwijking groter maken, ook al heb je een gevoelige receiver. Ik ken natuurlijk de situatie ter plaatse niet, maar ik vind de getrackte paden en 3dshapes wel redelijk goed samenvallen. Een uitzondering is het pad van de Lambertuskapel naar het zuidwesten. I.i.g. geldt voor GPS dat hoe meer tracks je hebt, de betrouwbaarheid van het gemiddelde nauwkeuriger wordt. * Brandweerkazerne: dit is een bekend verschijnsel. Het komt omdat voor veel gebouwen dezelfde code wordt gebruikt als voor bos, akkerland en begraafplaatsen. Dit zit helaas al in de brondata. Ondertussen heeft Lennard hier een oplossing voor. Groeten, Frank Quoting Rene Dohmen rdohmen+osm-talk...@gmail.com: Hoi Lennard, Ik neem aan dat het om dezelfde gegevens gaat als op: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/ Als er een mogelijkheid om de gemeenten Beesel en Venlo (inclusief Tegelen, Belfeld) te importeren kan ik daar aan verder werken. Bijvoorbeeld: Er ontbreekt nieuwbouw in dit gebied: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=18lat=51.28195lon=6.09466layers=B0T Het landgebruik valt soms niet helemaal samen met de getrackte paden: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=18lat=51.28645lon=6.06708layers=B0T De brandweerkazerne is van niet van struikgewas: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=18lat=51.28685lon=6.07096layers=B0T Maar het zwembad staat er behoorlijk goed op: http://3dshapes.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=18lat=51.28904lon=6.07374layers=B0T (het rondje moet een kinderbadje zijn). Kortom, als het lukt zou dat fantastisch zijn. Maar ik kan natuurlijk niet inschatten welke projecten er allemaal tijd consumeren... mvg, Rene 2010/2/2 Lennard l...@xs4all.nl: Michiel Faber wrote: Ik weet niet hoe het proces precies loopt en wat ik nodig heb. Wie kan mij vertellen wat ik dan moet doen en eventueel helpen/begeleiden. Zoals Frank en theun wel kunnen beamen, is importeren van deze landuse een intensief proces, voorzien van de nodige mitsen en maren in de data en de verwerking hiervan, en het opruimen van oudere objecten die niet meer nodig zijn en het eventueel overzetten van name tags hiervan. De documentatie die er is, is ook nog steeds in ontwikkeling en niet compleet. Vooral in het opruimen/gelijktrekken van oude vs. 3dshapes data gaat de nodige tijd zitten, terwijl dat wel het belangrijkste aspect is. We kunnen dus ook de data voor je importeren*, in een gebied dat je zelf aangeeft, zodat je alle tijd kunt besteden aan het echte, grote werk. Zeker omdat je lokaal bekend bent. * Importeren moet toch vanaf het 3dShapes account. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] detail omgeving oldenzaal
Lennard wrote: Michiel Faber wrote: Ik weet niet hoe het proces precies loopt en wat ik nodig heb. Wie kan mij vertellen wat ik dan moet doen en eventueel helpen/begeleiden. Zoals Frank en theun wel kunnen beamen, is importeren van deze landuse een intensief proces, voorzien van de nodige mitsen en maren in de data en de verwerking hiervan, en het opruimen van oudere objecten die niet meer nodig zijn en het eventueel overzetten van name tags hiervan. De documentatie die er is, is ook nog steeds in ontwikkeling en niet compleet. Vooral in het opruimen/gelijktrekken van oude vs. 3dshapes data gaat de nodige tijd zitten, terwijl dat wel het belangrijkste aspect is. We kunnen dus ook de data voor je importeren*, in een gebied dat je zelf aangeeft, zodat je alle tijd kunt besteden aan het echte, grote werk. Zeker omdat je lokaal bekend bent. * Importeren moet toch vanaf het 3dShapes account. Hallo Lennard, Als jij die data importeert dan ga ik het bekijken en waar nodig de data aanpassen. Voor het kleine gebied wat ik in mijn vorige mail al aangaf, moet dat te doen zijn en kan ik mooi zien waar de knelpunten (voor mij) zitten. Wanneer kun je da data importeren? Michiel ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
On Tuesday 02 February 2010 23:09:53 YRS wrote: Het lijkt mij veel meerwaarde hebben als een blinden met door een gps redelijk in de buurt van een startpunt van een geleidelijn geleid kunnen worden. Dan is het dus erg zinvol in mijn ogen om deze lijnen te mappen? Het lijkt mij heel nuttig als je een router hebt die buiten GPS en binnen geleidelijnen kan gebruiken. Je kan dan bijvoorbeeld het bericht volg deze lijn, ga bij de derde kruising links, en dan pakt de GPS het weer over krijgen. -- Sybren A. Stüvel syb...@stuvel.eu http://stuvel.eu/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] How to undo saved edits?
On Wed, 3 Feb 2010, Arie Paap wrote: However Potlatch exposes deleted ways: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potlatch/Primer#Undoing_mistakes So I use that to undelete the way and then continue editing (or switch back to JOSM) very good point I'm glad you raised this. This area really baffled me when I noticed it a little while ago. I really didn't know how to resolve all the duplication or how to approach the user in question - they have obviously contributed a fair bit to the map but all the myid tags and duplicated ways are odd. As an example for the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.6593lon=117.5389zoom=14layers=B000 FTF The Muirs Highway has been duplicated (and upgraded to trunk which also doesn't seem right to me). Arie It seems to be duplicated, but I have no idea about its trunk / not trunk status Often newbies spend a lot of time putting in something and need a quick pick- me-up help so they don't get totally discouraged when all their hard work has been wasted. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to undo saved edits?
On 3 February 2010 19:29, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: Often newbies spend a lot of time putting in something and need a quick pick- me-up help so they don't get totally discouraged when all their hard work has been wasted. Maybe there should be a tutorial mode added to potlatch, with some predefined exercises and potlatch gives hints or tips on how to improve where they went wrong. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] google maps criticised for unreliable toll road routing
@ http://apcmag.com/google-maps-bug-forces-melburnians-down-toll-roads.htm A bug in Google Maps Australia is forcing people down costly toll roads whether they like it or not. Just a thought - might be a nice reminder to check how we are doing on this front in OSM? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] google maps criticised for unreliable toll road routing
On 3 February 2010 19:46, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Just a thought - might be a nice reminder to check how we are doing on this front in OSM? I've seen some toll booths marked, not sure how any of the routing engines deals with it however. In Brisbane gMaps keeps sending me via Gympie Road when I want to take the Gateway Motorway because it's faster because Gympie Road has heaps and heaps of traffic lights and construction work on the M7 where they cross... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
I spent a couple of days in Canberra recently. Getting around via the OSM maps was great - everything there and accurate. But, when I wanted to find a church on Sunday morning, I could only find one, and sorry, wrong denomination. Maybe a few more churches (all faiths) could be added to the POI's. Also had a bit of trouble locating a convenient petrol station - a lot were "Unnamed". Not helpful when you have a wallet full of Coles or Woolworths discount vouchers. If you guys fix up Canberra, I'll fix up Campbelltown (NSW) ;-) Richard Ben Last wrote: That I can't say... but in general it averages about two weeks at the moment. Cheers b 2010/1/20 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com: nice - that would be a great help... how long before the images are visible? jim On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: If it's helps, NearMap started flying a Canberra survey yesterday. 2010/1/14 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com: Canberra seems to be fairly well covered OSM-wise although there are still lots of detail that could be added. But there is one obvious blank bit that might be fun to fill in - the Australian National Botanic Gardens. It is a public place so you do not really have to get permission to wander around, and it has it all: roads, fences, swing gates, boom gates, areas, paths, service roads, several different surface treatments, bridges, buildings, speed bumps, pedestrian crossings, directional signs, interpretive signs, POIs, car parking, parking meters, shared roads, benches, shelters, water bubblers, fire hydrants, standpipes, a shop and importantly, a cafe. And all condensed into a manageable area. Given this concentration of OSM features in microcosm, mapping the ANBG might be a good OSM training ground. What would Canberra OSMers think of this as a map-up project? We could just do it although I think it would be a good idea to talk with the management about it first if it is considered worth doing. Disclaimer. I work there :), which might be a good or a bad thing in terms of negotiating access and support from the organization. For instance a classroom with an internet computer and projector might be useful for training in the editing tools or arguing about (sorry, discussing) presentation features and tags, etc. The place has been surveyed a number of times and it should be possible to get permission to use some of this information. jim -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Ben Last Development Manager (HyperWeb) NearMap Pty Ltd ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
On 3 February 2010 21:24, Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au wrote: could be added to the POI's. Also had a bit of trouble locating a convenient petrol station - a lot were Unnamed. Not helpful when you have a wallet full of Coles or Woolworths discount vouchers. It might be useful to clarify things when it comes to Coles Express and Woolworths locations as to what the operator/naming should be, if you have a look at the BP import the naming is all over the place, even though a large number of them would be operated by BP directly, but an equally large number are independently owned/operated. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:37 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: It might be useful to clarify things when it comes to Coles Express and Woolworths locations as to what the operator/naming should be I use name=Woolworths for Woolworths petrol stations. Have never used the operator=* tag - should I? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
Roy Wallace wrote: I use name=Woolworths for Woolworths petrol stations. Have never used the operator=* tag - should I? I haven't seen any difference to the rendering with or without the operator tag. What I do find useful is the inclusion of a place name when looking at the list of outlets on a GPS. This makes it so much simpler to ignore those away from my intended direction of travel. So I use names like Woolworths Renmark. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:29 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: I use name=Woolworths for Woolworths petrol stations. Have never used the operator=* tag - should I? I haven't seen any difference to the rendering with or without the operator tag. Thanks for the response, but I'm not talking about rendering. What I do find useful is the inclusion of a place name when looking at the list of outlets on a GPS. This makes it so much simpler to ignore those away from my intended direction of travel. So I use names like Woolworths Renmark. Is the name actually Woolworths Renmark, though? If not, it shouldn't be in the name tag...(right?) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
On 4 February 2010 07:58, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Is the name actually Woolworths Renmark, though? If not, it shouldn't be in the name tag...(right?) Should be what ever the registered business name or company name is. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] re Coastline rendering in Garmins Mapsource
Seems Openmtbmap has recently got 'sea polygons' organized. :) Here is a Mapsource Noosa view. It's not 100% for the entire coastline, but it's pretty damn good. http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6421/noosamtb.jpg Regards John k ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:37 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: Is the name actually Woolworths Renmark, though? If not, it shouldn't be in the name tag...(right?) Strictly correct. But finding the right name for the particular outlet isn't necessarily easy. Searching www.abr.business.gov.au for Woolworths shows variations on Woolworths Petrol, Caltex Woolworths and some where the location forms part of the registered name. I think this is the difference between a directory and a map. A directory should probably have the legally correct name. A map should have the most useful, locally appropriate name. There are plenty of shops whose registered name is meaningless because it's completely different to the signage out front. Certainly, the registered name is an objective fact which no one can dispute, which has some advantages. But if it's useless, then IMHO better to choose something as neutral as possible that will actually impart some information. Case in point, my local IGA is technically called Renaissance, and that's what appears on my credit card statements. I don't know what their technical registered name is, but IGA Renaissance or IGA St Kilda would be much better names than simply Renaissance. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
Roy Wallace wrote: I use name=Woolworths for Woolworths petrol stations. Have never used the operator=* tag - should I? I haven't seen any difference to the rendering with or without the operator tag. What I do find useful is the inclusion of a place name when looking at the list of outlets on a GPS. This makes it so much simpler to ignore those away from my intended direction of travel. So I use names like Woolworths Renmark. John H Can we document on the wiki which is Operator and which is Name (for Australia) because I never found it to make sense I suspect Operator is the franchise name - am I right? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
On 4 February 2010 13:01, ed...@billiau.net wrote: Can we document on the wiki which is Operator and which is Name (for Australia) because I never found it to make sense I suspect Operator is the franchise name - am I right? I've been setting the Operator to the fuel they supply, eg operator=BP or Caltex or ... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
Can we document on the wiki which is Operator and which is Name (for Australia) because I never found it to make sense I suspect Operator is the franchise name - am I right? IMHO, Operator should act like a controlled vocabulary with a small number of choices. For ATMs, for example, Operator means Commonwealth or NAB, to help people identify ATMs where they don't have to pay fees. Service station operators likewise should be a small list of either BP, Caltex etc. I don't know if that was the original intention of the operator tag, but it is a useful application of it. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] google maps criticised for unreliable toll road routing
On 4 February 2010 13:44, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: I've only checked Citylink here, but I notice that neither Mapnik nor Osmarender renders tollroads any differently. How strange. Why is it strange that no one put in a request to have them render differently? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
On 4 February 2010 16:01, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: +1. e.g. for Woolworths Caltex petrol, is it Woolworths or Caltex? For those with a discount voucher they're probably more interested in looking for Woolworths stations than Caltex stations... I usually set name=Woolworths Petrol suburb, operator=Caltex or name=Coles Express suburb, operator=Shell Some people have BP cards so being able to search for operator=BP would be useful as well, even if it's independently owned. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] re Coastline rendering in Garmins Mapsource
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Not only have they created sea polygons but they have turned the land into polygons also. The only way to do it. John Kitchener wrote: Seems Openmtbmap has recently got 'sea polygons' organized. :) Here is a Mapsource Noosa view. It's not 100% for the entire coastline, but it's pretty damn good. http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6421/noosamtb.jpg Regards John k ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktqabAACgkQAJovnxfSHxkMhQCgvtdxSGEk6sQot/lM8mDk7e2w DhYAn1UVQLvzEhAK18XLwdD8/TCcjQDT =Rxq0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Mapping Party #2
Pessoal, Gostaria de convidá-los para mais uma mapping party em Sao Paulo, a ser feita neste fim de semana. Onde mapearemos ainda está em aberto, peço a todos que participem para ajudarmos o projeto. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Paulo_Feb_2010_Mapping_Party Um abraço, Diogo Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Baarle/Nassau - Admin-boundaries?
Stefan Schwan schrieb: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg Wie ist das, wenn ich hier mit einem Fuss in NL, mit dem anderen in B stehe und jemanden verkloppe[1]? Komme ich dann in NL oder in B ins Gefängnis? ;-) ist sogar schon auf http://bestofosm.org/ Aber der 3DShapes Import noch nicht: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.3355lon=6.9385zoom=12 Chris [1] rein hypothetisch, normalerweise tue ich sowas nicht ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Marker aus der slippymap in PHP nutzen?
Am Mittwoch, den 03.02.2010, 01:35 +0100 schrieb Stefan Schwan: Hallo Bei nur wenigen Markern kannst du den entsprechenden JS Code einfach per PHP in einer Schleife einfügen. Es geht nur um einen Einzigen: seine Heimat. Alle anderen werden statisch und unverschiebbar eingefügt. echo var marker.$n. = new OpenLayers.Feature.Vector(new OpenLayers.Geometry.Point(.$deinMarkerArray[$n][lon].,. $deinMarkerArray[$n][lat].));; Dann kannst du die JS Dateien natürlich nicht mehr auslagern, die Sache ist sehr statisch und bläht den Quellcode der Seite unnötig auf - Schöner, und gerade bei vielen Punkten notwendig, ist AJAX. Ebenso, wenn ich in das Feld einen Wert eintrage, und dieses mit Tabulator verlasse? onchange() Okay, werde ich mir ansehen - Danke schonmal. Gruß, Stefan MfG, Chris. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Baarle/Nassau - Admin-boundaries?
Chris-Hein Lunkhusen glaubte zu wissen: Stefan Schwan schrieb: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg Wie ist das, wenn ich hier mit einem Fuss in NL, mit dem anderen in B stehe und jemanden verkloppe[1]? Komme ich dann in NL oder in B ins Gefängnis? ;-) Na erst im einen, dann im anderen Land. Und in beiden wirst du zu Schmerzensgeld verurteilt. ;-) Ich gehe davon aus. daß da Regeln geschaffen wurden. [1] rein hypothetisch, normalerweise tue ich sowas nicht normalerweise. Soso... ;-) flo -- Genau! Vom Lesbenacker stamm Ich nicht. Und der Planet Duisburg ist ja auch nicht gerade so klein. [WoKo in dag°] ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Baarle/Nassau - Admin-boundaries?
Am 3. Februar 2010 09:47 schrieb Chris-Hein Lunkhusen chris66...@gmx.de: Stefan Schwan schrieb: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg Wie ist das, wenn ich hier mit einem Fuss in NL, mit dem anderen in B stehe und jemanden verkloppe[1]? Komme ich dann in NL oder in B ins Gefängnis? ;-) Wird wohl drauf ankommen in welchem Land dich dein Opfer anzeigt - im Zweifel dort, wo die Strafe höher ist ;) . Dann gibts einen europäischen Haftbefehl und schon sitzt du in Auslieferungshaft... ist sogar schon auf http://bestofosm.org/ Aber der 3DShapes Import noch nicht: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.3355lon=6.9385zoom=12 Chris [1] rein hypothetisch, normalerweise tue ich sowas nicht ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Am 03.02.2010 01:57, schrieb Hanno Böck: Da ihr grad so schön am diskutieren seid, ich hätt noch eine harte Nuss für Euch: Ich hab den Großteil meines bisherigen Lebens in einer Straße verbracht, die auf der einen Seite Plauener Weg heißt, auf der anderen aber Plauenerweg Ich hab mal gelernt, das bei Straßenname ein Wort mit -er am Ende haben immer auseinander geschrieben werden (steht glaub ich im Duden unter getrennt und zusammenschreibung). vgl. http://www.deutschonline.de/Deutsch/Grammatik/ZusGetr.htm Nr. 18 Zitat: Straßennamen werden zusammengeschrieben, wenn sie aus einem ungebeugten Adjektiv und einem Grundwort zusammengesetzt sind. Zum Beispiel:Altmarkt, Neumarkt, Hochstraße, Aber:Alter Markt, Hohe Straße, Große Bleiche, Langer Graben, Getrennt schreibt man Straßennamen auch bei Orts- oder Ländernamen auf -er: Hamburger Straße, Deutscher Ring Gruß Sven ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Ulf Lamping wrote: P.S: Was erzählst du eigentlich für einen Humbug? Wenn ich auf der Hauptseite nach turmstrasse suche, bekomme ich beide möglichen Schreibweisen geliefert! Kein Humbug. Ich bekomme da nix. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Claudius wrote: Du hast gelesen, dass sich die Botregel [1] für die Korrektur Straße auf Deutschland und Österreich beschränkt und eine zweite [2] für Korrekturen zu Strasse im Gebiet der Schweiz existiert? Schon klar. Nur, wenn jemand aus der Schweiz diese Zeichen nicht auf der Tastatur hat, dann sucht er in D eben nach Wilhelmstrasse und nicht nach Wilhelmstraße. Und wenn dann nichts gefunden wird -bei mir ist das so- ist es eben frustrierend und der user wird dann eben nicht bei OSM bleiben. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Nein, die Person hieße dann 'Plauener'. ;) Gruß, Martin Am 03.02.10 schrieb Johann H. Addicks addi...@gmx.net: Am 03.02.2010 01:57, schrieb Hanno Böck: Ich hab den Großteil meines bisherigen Lebens in einer Straße verbracht, die auf der einen Seite Plauener Weg heißt, auf der anderen aber Plauenerweg Dann wird ein Teil der Straße nach der Ortschaft Plauen benannt sein, der andere Teil nach irgendeiner Person mit Namen Plauen benannt sein. -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
hy-soft schrieb: Nur, wenn jemand aus der Schweiz diese Zeichen nicht auf der Tastatur hat, dann sucht er in D eben nach Wilhelmstrasse und nicht nach Wilhelmstraße. Und wenn dann nichts gefunden wird -bei mir ist das so- ist es eben frustrierend und der user wird dann eben nicht bei OSM bleiben. Und wenn der Nutzer mit deutscher Tastatur vergeblich nach der Wilhelmstraße sucht, weil in der Datenbank Wilhelmstrasse steht, ist das irgendwie besser? Es führt m.E. kein Weg drum herum, dass sich die Software um solche Sonderzeichen und Ähnlichkeiten kümmern muss. Das kann man nicht durch künstliche Beschänkungen in den Daten lösen. Übrigens: Bei mir findet Nominatim für Wilhelmstrasse problemlos auch Wilhelmstraßen, was die ganze Diskussion ziemlich theoretisch macht.. Tobias Knerr ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Am 03.02.2010 14:14, hy-soft: Ulf Lamping wrote: P.S: Was erzählst du eigentlich für einen Humbug? Wenn ich auf der Hauptseite nach turmstrasse suche, bekomme ich beide möglichen Schreibweisen geliefert! Kein Humbug. Ich bekomme da nix. Entweder war der Nomination zu deinem Testzeitpunkt kaputt, oder in der Schweiz wird inzwischen der Zugriff auf www.openstreetmap.org zensiert :) Ich erhalte nach Eingabe von Turmstrasse im Suchfeld links die Ergebnisse: Ergebnisse von OpenStreetMap Nominatim Landstraße Turmstraße, Berlin-Moabit, Bezirk Berlin-Mitte, Berlin, Berlin, Stadt, 10559, Bundesrepublik Deutschland Landstraße Turmstraße, Berlin-Moabit, Bezirk Berlin-Mitte, Berlin, Berlin, Stadt, 10551, Bundesrepublik Deutschland Tertiärstraße Turmstrasse, Pfäffikon ZH, Pfäffikon, Bezirk Pfäffikon, 8330, Zürich, Schweiz Ortsgebiet Turmstrasse, Winterthur, Bezirk Winterthur, 8400, Zürich, Schweiz Ortsgebiet Turmstrasse, Mattenbach, Winterthur, Bezirk Winterthur, 8400, Zürich, Schweiz Fußgängerweg Turmstraße, Innenstadt, ノイブランデンブルク, Neubrandenburg, 17033, Mecklenburg-Strelitz, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Bundesrepublik Deutschland Claudius ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Am 03.02.2010 14:14, hy-soft: Ulf Lamping wrote: P.S: Was erzählst du eigentlich für einen Humbug? Wenn ich auf der Hauptseite nach turmstrasse suche, bekomme ich beide möglichen Schreibweisen geliefert! Kein Humbug. Ich bekomme da nix. Noch einfacher: Siehst du denn hier die verschiedenen Schreibweisen als Ergebnis? http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/?q=turmstrasse Claudius ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Tobias Knerr wrote: Übrigens: Bei mir findet Nominatim für Wilhelmstrasse problemlos auch Wilhelmstraßen, was die ganze Diskussion ziemlich theoretisch macht.. Also ich habe mal nach Oberried Hauptstrasse gesucht und auch nach Oberried Hauptstr Da kommt bei mir nix. die Strasse ist aber da http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.9144lon=-13.8037zoom=13layers=B000FTF ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 01:57:09AM +0100, Hanno Böck wrote: Da ihr grad so schön am diskutieren seid, ich hätt noch eine harte Nuss für Euch: Ich hab den Großteil meines bisherigen Lebens in einer Straße verbracht, die auf der einen Seite Plauener Weg heißt, auf der anderen aber Plauenerweg ;-) Der Stadt melden - sollen ordentliche Schilder aufstellen. Typischerweise gibt es nur einen Namen. Rechtschreibregeln helfen da nicht weiter - denn das sind StraßenNAMEN und die unterliegen keiner Gesetzmaessigkeit. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 04:12:55PM +0100, Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR) wrote: Dieter Jasper schrieb: Langversion ist sicher besser. aber die Langform sollte sich nur auf Abkürzungen wie str. etc beziehen. Eine D.-Martin-Luther-Straße sollte m.E. nicht plötzlich zur Doktor-Martin-Luther-Straße werden. D. ist unueblich fuer Doktor und sollte von daher entweder zu Dr. oder Doktor korrigiert werden. Das Problem ist aber das hier immer wieder das Beispiel Dr. vs Doktor angefuehrt wird. Das ist aber eine _DER_ Ausnahmen der Langschreibregeln. Denn Dr. ist in allen Publikationen haeufiger als Doktor. Mir faellt spontan keine darueberhinausgehende Ausnahme ein. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Am 3. Februar 2010 14:14 schrieb hy-soft hy-s...@sha-mash.de: Ulf Lamping wrote: P.S: Was erzählst du eigentlich für einen Humbug? Wenn ich auf der Hauptseite nach turmstrasse suche, bekomme ich beide möglichen Schreibweisen geliefert! Kein Humbug. Ich bekomme da nix. bist Du online? Bei mir funktionierts ebenfalls: ist egal ob man strasse oder Straße eingibt. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Am 3. Februar 2010 14:45 schrieb hy-soft hy-s...@sha-mash.de: Tobias Knerr wrote: Übrigens: Bei mir findet Nominatim für Wilhelmstrasse problemlos auch Wilhelmstraßen, was die ganze Diskussion ziemlich theoretisch macht.. Also ich habe mal nach Oberried Hauptstrasse gesucht und auch nach Oberried Hauptstr ja, habe auch gerade festgestellt, dass Abkürzungen wohl noch überhaupt nicht funktionieren. Bei Wilhelmstr., Turmstr. etc findet er leider gar nichts :( Das ist natürlich sehr schlecht, da der Googleverwöhnte Nutzer damit nicht rechnet. Man sollte mal beginnen, eine internationale (bzw. multinationale) Ersetzungs-/Abkürzungsliste aufzustellen, oder gibts sowas schon irgendwo? Vor einiger Zeit hatten wir so eine Diskussion auch schonmal in Italien, aber soweit ich weiss noch ohne weitere Handlungen. Ich stelle mir sowas vor, wo für jedes Land/Sprache die typischen Abkürzungen zusammengetragen sind, so dass ich als Anwendungsentwickler den es interessiert mir die Sachen von dort bequem zusammenkopieren kann, in D. also z.B. str=straße, in Italien p.zza=piazza, piazzetta oder vvf=vigili del fuoco, v.=via, etc. Auch sowas wie am Main oder an der Sobel ;-) gehört IMHO da rein, e.V., ev., usw.usf. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Hallo Hy, Also ich habe mal nach Oberried Hauptstrasse gesucht und auch nach Oberried Hauptstr Da kommt bei mir nix. Das liegt aber an einem anderen Problem: Search terms are processed left to right http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim Wenn Du also nach Hauptstrasse Oberried suchst, dann findet er die Strasse auch. Abkürzungen funktionieren aber leider tatsächlich noch nicht. Gruss, Thomas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Am 03.02.2010 15:40, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Man sollte mal beginnen, eine internationale (bzw.multinationale) Ersetzungs-/Abkürzungsliste aufzustellen, oder gibts sowas schon irgendwo? Bin auch dafür, genauso wie Bgm. XY Straße für Bürgermeister XY Straße. Jeder könnte Abkürzungen aus seinem Gebiet in die Liste eintragen. Ich wäre auf jeden Fall dabei. Ich stelle mir sowas vor, wo für jedes Land/Sprache die typischen Abkürzungen zusammengetragen sind, so dass ich als Anwendungsentwickler den es interessiert mir die Sachen von dort bequem zusammenkopieren kann, in D. also z.B. str=straße, in Italien p.zza=piazza, piazzetta oder vvf=vigili del fuoco, v.=via, etc. Auch sowas wie am Main oder an der Sobel ;-) gehört IMHO da rein, e.V., ev., usw.usf. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Am 03.02.2010 16:01, schrieb Martin Czarkowski: Am 03.02.2010 15:40, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Man sollte mal beginnen, eine internationale (bzw.multinationale) Ersetzungs-/Abkürzungsliste aufzustellen, oder gibts sowas schon irgendwo? Bin auch dafür, genauso wie Bgm. XY Straße für Bürgermeister XY Straße. Jeder könnte Abkürzungen aus seinem Gebiet in die Liste eintragen. Ich wäre auf jeden Fall dabei. Ich auch, wenn mir sowas über den Weg läuft. Ich stelle mir sowas vor, wo für jedes Land/Sprache die typischen Abkürzungen zusammengetragen sind [...]. Auch sowas wie am Main oder an der Sobel ;-) gehört IMHO da rein, e.V., ev., usw.usf. Wo wir hier schon bei Wünsch-Dir-Was sind, und es mir gerade selbst passiert ist: Wie wäre es mit einer Heuristik, die gängige Schreibfehler erkennt und Korrekturvorschläge macht? Konkret hab ich gerade aus Versehen ...staße statt ...straße eingegeben ;-) Ich dachte da an ein Meinten sie: xyz wie bei Google. Auch gerne vertippt: Bahnhofstraße vs. Bahnhofsstraße. Hmm, ich fürchte ich hab das sogar in meinem Heimatdorf in OSM falsch eingetragen - das muss ich schleunigst mal prüfen... Eilige Gruße, Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Florian Lohoff schrieb: On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 04:25:03PM +0100, Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR) wrote: D. ist unueblich fuer Doktor und sollte von daher entweder zu Dr. oder Doktor korrigiert werden. Bitte NICHT ändern! Das D. ist für den Doktor der Theologie sehr wohl üblich und übrigens ist auch die von mir angegebene Schreibweise D.-Martin-Luther-Straße die offizielle und richtige! Wikipedia meint dazu: Dr. theol. (theologiae): Doktor der Theologie, früher häufig nur D. Der punkt ist das aus D.-Martin-Luther-Straße niemals eine langform zu bilden ist. Umgekehrt aus der Langform aber immer eine Kurzform. Mit der Kurzform geht immer ein informationsverlust einher der nicht wieder wettzumachen ist. Daher plaediere ich allumfassend fuer die Langform. Und was das D. ist wird Schlussendlich bei A.-v.-D.-Hülshoff-Straße ad absurdum gefuehrt. Flo Der Titel D. ist != Dr. Wikipedia: Ein Ehrendoktor (Dr. h. c., Dr. E. h., in der evangelischen Theologie auch D.) ist eine ehrenhalber verliehene Auszeichnung einer Universität oder Fakultät, die für besondere Verdienste verliehen wird. Es wäre also genau genommen das unbefugte Führen eines akademischen Grades! Also bitte lasst Doch die Namen so wie sie sind und 100- oder 1000-fach auf den Straßenschildern und in den Straßenlisten der Gemeinden stehen. Uns was machst Du mit den ganzen anderen Dokor-Titel-Varianten? Dr. med., Dr.-Ing., ... alle zu irgendwelchen künstlichen Langformen aufblähen? Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßenname kurz oder lang?
Am 3. Februar 2010 16:01 schrieb Martin Czarkowski czarkow...@gmail.com: Am 03.02.2010 15:40, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Man sollte mal beginnen, eine internationale (bzw.multinationale) Ersetzungs-/Abkürzungsliste aufzustellen, oder gibts sowas schon irgendwo? Bin auch dafür, genauso wie Bgm. XY Straße für Bürgermeister XY Straße. Jeder könnte Abkürzungen aus seinem Gebiet in die Liste eintragen. Ich wäre auf jeden Fall dabei. Neben einer besseren Suche wäre ein weiterer nicht zu unterschätzender Vorteil, dass man auch den umgekehrten Weg beim Rendern gehen könnte: Lange Namen fürs Kartenbild so abkürzen, wie es üblicherweise gemacht wird (und damit viel mehr Straßennamen anzeigen, die sonst aufgrund der Länge nicht hinpassen). Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] network-Relationen in JOSM fehlen ploetzlich
Moin, bisher wurden bei mir in JOSM (schon etwas aelter: Version 2255) beim Runterladen von Kartendaten vom Server auch die network-Relationen mit runtergeladen, die andere Relationen als Mitglieder haben, die ein Mitglied innerhalb des Gebiets haben. Das klappt nun nicht mehr. Ich bekomme zwar immer noch die Relation, deren nodes oder ways innerhalb des Gebietes liegen, aber die Relationen der Relationen fehlen ploetzlich. Woran liegt das? Und vorallem: Was kann ich dagegen tun? Gruss Torsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] network-Relationen in JOSM fehlen ploetzlich
Moin, Am Mittwoch 03. Februar 2010 17:05:00 schrieb Torsten Leistikow: Woran liegt das? Und vorallem: Was kann ich dagegen tun? Im Reltaionseditor gibt es die Reiter Merkmalre und Elemente, Eltern- Relationen und Kind-Relationen. Im zweiten Reiter klickst du auf Neu laden und dann kommen die Eltern herbei. Gruß, Carsten -- Hier ist mein öffentlicher GPG-Schlüssel: http://daswaldhorn.piranho.de/gpg.php = www.stopptdievorratsdatenspeicherung.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
