[talk-au] Mapper of the Month

[Marc Gemis]

Hallo,

I'm escada, one of the people behind the "Mapper of the Month" interviews [1].
I've already tried to get an Australian mapper in the series, but the
people that I contacted preferred to stay anonymous, which is
perfectly fine for me.

So, if you want to participate or know someone with an interesting
mapping story,
feel free to contact me via a private message

thanks in advance

regards

m

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Belgian_Mapper_of_the_Month

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Clifford Snow]

Andy,

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 17/11/2017 22:52, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
>
> Frederik,
> I think we are all thankful for the newsletter. And believe they are free
> to publish to their own standards. However, because they use OSM resources
> by publishing on our mailing lists they need respect our values. I don't
> think asking a publication to be respectful to individuals is asking too
> much.
>
>
> Clifford,
> Being "respectful" is a two-way street.  This is a situation that's been
> going on for almost exactly a year now.  During that time this individual
> has shown contempt for the OSM community, including on occasion telling
> outright untruths.  Conversations with him were very repectful at first
> (conducted in changeset discussions rather than on mailing lists), but it
> gradually became clear that any statements such as "I have already stopped
> changing any objects except" were simply worthless.  At some point you have
> to call a lie a lie, and I can't think of a way of doing that without
> "being disrespectful".
>

Absolutely. I'm only suggesting that as a community we strive to be
respectful to everyone, all the time. That in no way mean that we condone
bad behavior. I'm all for calling out such behavior even to the point of
expelling/banning the person if reasonable attempts to get the person to
change is futile. My basic belief is that all people have good intentions.
Our community goal should be to bring out the best in everyone.


>
> Also, I have to object to the use of "they" and "our" in your comment.
> The OSM Weekly is produced by and for people from the OSM community,
> exactly the same community that the mailing lists are run by and for.  The
> use of that sort of divisive language ("they") reminds me of a visit to
> South Africa back in the 90s, and not in a good way.
>

Sorry for the poor choice of words. Now you see why I don't offer to edit
or write for the OSM Weekly.  My grandfather, a former newspaper editor,
would have been sadden by my lack of writing abilities.

Best,
Clifford

-- 
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osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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[OSM-ja] 11/23 東京！街歩かない！マッピングパーティ（もくもく会）の開催

[Takahisa TAGUCHI]

田口です。

Facebookのほうではお知らせさせていただきましたが、11/23(祝)東京で
もくもく会を開催いたします。

毎回ゆるゆると開催していますので、お時間がありましたらぜひお気軽に
ご参加下さい。

東京！街歩かない！マッピングパーティ4 ＠渋谷
　日時：2017/11/23(祝) 13:30～
　場所：びぎねっと会議室
https://connpass.com/event/71796/

よろしくお願いします。

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Whataboutism at its best?

John Oliver: https://youtu.be/1ZAPwfrtAFY?t=6m2s


On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 17/11/2017 22:52, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
>
> Frederik,
> I think we are all thankful for the newsletter. And believe they are free
> to publish to their own standards. However, because they use OSM resources
> by publishing on our mailing lists they need respect our values. I don't
> think asking a publication to be respectful to individuals is asking too
> much.
>
>
> Clifford,
> Being "respectful" is a two-way street.  This is a situation that's been
> going on for almost exactly a year now.  During that time this individual
> has shown contempt for the OSM community, including on occasion telling
> outright untruths.  Conversations with him were very repectful at first
> (conducted in changeset discussions rather than on mailing lists), but it
> gradually became clear that any statements such as "I have already stopped
> changing any objects except" were simply worthless.  At some point you have
> to call a lie a lie, and I can't think of a way of doing that without
> "being disrespectful".
>
> Also, I have to object to the use of "they" and "our" in your comment.
> The OSM Weekly is produced by and for people from the OSM community,
> exactly the same community that the mailing lists are run by and for.  The
> use of that sort of divisive language ("they") reminds me of a visit to
> South Africa back in the 90s, and not in a good way.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Andy Townsend]

On 17/11/2017 22:52, Clifford Snow wrote:


Frederik,
I think we are all thankful for the newsletter. And believe they are 
free to publish to their own standards. However, because they use OSM 
resources by publishing on our mailing lists they need respect our 
values. I don't think asking a publication to be respectful to 
individuals is asking too much.


Clifford,
Being "respectful" is a two-way street.  This is a situation that's been 
going on for almost exactly a year now.  During that time this 
individual has shown contempt for the OSM community, including on 
occasion telling outright untruths.  Conversations with him were very 
repectful at first (conducted in changeset discussions rather than on 
mailing lists), but it gradually became clear that any statements such 
as "I have already stopped changing any objects except" were simply 
worthless.  At some point you have to call a lie a lie, and I can't 
think of a way of doing that without "being disrespectful".


Also, I have to object to the use of "they" and "our" in your comment.  
The OSM Weekly is produced by and for people from the OSM community, 
exactly the same community that the mailing lists are run by and for.  
The use of that sort of divisive language ("they") reminds me of a visit 
to South Africa back in the 90s, and not in a good way.


Best Regards,

Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Richard Fairhurst]

Sheesh, you lot are hilarious sometimes. 

Publications have an inviolable duty to be impartial? That’s great. Very
interesting attitude in 2017. Tell me when you’ve found one such. 

WeeklyOSM writes what WeeklyOSM wants. If you don’t like it, contribute or
start your own. It saddens me that the spirit of do-ocracy in OSM has been
diluted so much that people now prefer to criticise others on the mailing
lists rather than doing anything better.

I’m a former newsstand magazine editor, lay out a tidy flatplan, write a
mean standfirst; and still, as a freelance, write features regularly. But
don’t let that stop you with your ever entertaining amateur hour. 

Richard 



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
>
>
> I'm immensely thankful that we have the weekly, and that it has formed
> independently of the powers that be in the OSMF, and that it dares to
> report things the OSMF wouldn't necessarily blog about, and that they
> aren't required to submit to some OSMF redaction. I find something to
> dislike in every issue, but that's not the point; the fact that we have
> a free press at all more than makes up for that.
>

Frederik,
I think we are all thankful for the newsletter. And believe they are free
to publish to their own standards. However, because they use OSM resources
by publishing on our mailing lists they need respect our values. I don't
think asking a publication to be respectful to individuals is asking too
much.

Best,
Clifford


-- 
@osm_seattle
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Talk-ee] Haldusreform

[Tormi Tabor]

Ei, seda haldan mina ;)

Tervitades,
Tormi Tabor
5451 3000

17. november 2017 22:18 kirjutas Mihkel Oviir :

> See ei ole ju Maa-ameti ametlik andmete jagamise kanal?
>
> 17.11.2017 11:53 AM kirjutas kuupäeval "Tormi Tabor" <
> tormi.ta...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Maa-amet lisas eile reformijärgse EHAK'i, csv ja json formaadid siin:
>> https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/releases/tag/20171116
>>
>> Tervitades,
>> Tormi Tabor
>> 5451 3000
>>
>> 25. oktoober 2017 23:19 kirjutas Tormi Tabor :
>>
>>> Suhtlesin Maa-ametiga. Vana asukoht ja struktuur säilib ;)
>>>
>>> Taust: https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/issues/51#issuecomment-339177579
>>>
>>> Tervitades,
>>> Tormi Tabor
>>> 5451 3000
>>>
>>> 9. oktoober 2017 17:02 kirjutas Tormi Tabor :
>>>
 Aitäh uue failide asukoha URLi eest! Ehk annab mappida. Tegin issue, et
 meelest ei läheks: https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/issues/51

 Geogig-i ei ole proovinud.

 Tormi


 9. oktoober 2017 16:34 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :

>
> Äge!
>
> Mõistagi on maaamet pannud uued piirid teisele lehele ja pisut teise
> andmete struktuuriga, et omapoolne diffi kavalus keeruliseks kui mitte
> võimatuks muuta (nt aname -> a_name atribuudi nimes jms)
> http://geoportaal.maaamet.ee/est/Andmed-ja-kaardid/Hald
> us-ja-asustusjaotus/Haldusreformijargsed-haldus-ja-asustusja
> otuse-piirid-p577.html
>
> p.s. http://geogig.org/ oled katsetanud?
>
> Jaak
>
> On 9 Oct 2017, at 13:50, Tormi Tabor  wrote:
>
> Tere.
> '
> Lihtsalt infoks, et ma login aadressil https://github.com/b
> uildig/EHAK/ juba mõnda aega igakuiselt Maa-ameti shapefaile.
> Konverdin need enne csv-ks ja json-iks, et info muutuks versioneeritavaks.
> Viimase muudatuse (sept > okt) logi: https://github.com/build
> ig/EHAK/pull/50/commits/58a1036f92f416d82c2feedfa7f1e4c64e9bdaab
>
> Tervitades,
> Tormi Tabor
> 5451 3000
>
> 9. oktoober 2017 11:04 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :
>
>> Hoi,
>>
>> Käes on 2017 ja haldusreform, ning ette tuleks võtta “väike” OSM
>> parandus:
>>
>> a) Halduspiirid.
>>  - Uued maakonnad, vallad ja külad on Shapefailidena saadaval
>> maaameti kodulehel. Seda saab taustainfona kasutada, parandused tuleks
>> minumeelest käsitsi teha.
>>  - Külade tasemel on vist muutunud eelkõige nimed.
>>  - Uusi valdu on õnneks vähem kui vanu - vanad tuleks vist kõik
>> kustutada ja uued tekitada uutest küladest ükshaaval
>>  - Uued maakonnad teha uutest valdadadest/omavalistustest
>>  - võib teha mingi jagatud wikilehe (google docs?) kus on kirjas mis
>> külad/vallad on üle vaadatud ja parandatud?
>>
>> b) aadressid.
>>  - peaks tekkima aadressregistris (ADS) tabel, kus on vana ja uus
>> aadress. hetkel veel vist pole. On online web-teenus küll juba.
>>  - Üldiselt ADS mõistes lühiaadressid, mida me punktidena kaardistame
>> (tänava nimi ja majanumber), ei tohiks isegi muutuda, muutub
>> küla/omavalitsus mis läheb automaatselt korda kui on halduspiirid
>> korrigeeritud.
>>  - Maaamet on lubanud ka sihtnumbreid/postiindekseid ADS-i juurde,
>> kuidas neid kaardistada ma hästi ei teagi. Variandid oleks tekitada
>> piirkonnad (aga Eesti postiindeks pole sisuliselt geograafiline), või 
>> siis
>> igale aadresspunktile indeks juurde tag-ina; või siis suisa 
>> relatsioonidena
>> lahendada teha (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
>> /wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code
>> ).
>>
>>
>> Mõlema kohta ettepanekud teretulnud.
>>
>> Jaak
>>
>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/11/2017 22:04, Frederik Ramm wrote:

many papers had
misunderstood their journalistic impartiality as having to give both
sides of an argument equal coverage


Oh really?!! Well at least we now know where you stand, in case you ever 
put yourself forward as a candidate for the OSMF board.


--
Steve

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Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Talk-rs Digest, Vol 47, Issue 7

[Немања Паунић]

Draga gospodo,

Ako nemate ništa protiv, zahvalio bi vam se na izdvojenom vremenu.
Kako ne razumete?
Evri ne postoje. Stav RGZa ne postoji, odnosno, verovatno je onaj koji ste
do sad postigli.

Pokušao sam da govorim o saradnji i pomoći. Primetio bih da su podaci koje
stvarate open, što ne mogu reći za iznete stavove.
Da bi bilo ičega razgovor bi trebalo da bude opušten i otvoren. Mogućnosti
stvaramo zajedno.

Na ponuđenu priliku vi zahtevate polaganje računa. Moje viđenje je da to
nije fer stav.
Da bi se neke stvari promenile potreban je zajednički rad. Za svaki
konstruktivan predlog stojim vam na raspolaganju.

Želim vam ugodan vikend,
Nemanja

2017-11-17 22:42 GMT+01:00 :

> Send Talk-rs mailing list submissions to
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-rs digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Talk-rs Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 (Predrag Milanovic)
>
>
> ---Прослеђена порука--
> From: Predrag Milanovic 
> To: OpenStreetMap Serbia 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 22:41:24 +0100
> Subject: Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Talk-rs Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5
> Немања,
>
> Колико ми је познато Националном инфраструктуром геопросторних података се
> управља кроз одељење у Републичком геодетском заводу. Да ли то значи да нам
> РГЗ жели помоћи?
> Највећа помоћ РГЗ-а би била у томе да нам дозволи да користимо одређене
> скупове података за подлоге. Ако смо скромни, за концепт који је имењак
> Супуровић навео са custom tile serverom, довољан је и неки линукс VPS од
> пар евра месечно и то свакако није ништа спектакуларно, a за све се користи
> open-sourсe па нема ни трошкова за лиценце.
>
> Поздрав,
> Предраг
>
>
>
> 2017-11-17 15:42 GMT+01:00 Немања Паунић :
>
>> Poštovani gospodine Predraže, ostatku liste kome sam nemerno zahvalan na
>> učešću,
>>
>> Ideja je kranje jednostavna. Pokušavamo da OSM mapama u Srbiji damo
>> neophodnu podršku i pomoć kako bi projekat bilo moguće voditi na teritoriji
>> cele republike, dakle uključujući Kosovo i Metohiju.
>> Pregledom foruma pronašao sam vašu ideju da se samostalno organizujete na
>> izdvojenom serveru. Takođe, video sam da imate problem sa administrativnim
>> granicama.
>>
>> Ideja ide ka ustupanju resursa omogućenih od strane NIGPa za potrebe OSMa
>> Srbije i ka omogućavanju seta podataka sa administrativnim jedinicama.
>> Ukoliko to nije moguće u ovom trenutku jer ne postoje dovoljni resursi
>> onda da pokušamo da uključimo u plan za sledeću godinu.
>>
>> Moje lično mišljenje je da OSM priča u Srbiji zaslužuje nacionalnu
>> pažnju, da su koristi od ažurnih karata nemeljvie i u toj ideji nisam
>> usamljen.
>> Međutim, kako bi ideju izložili i branili da ona dobije status zvanične
>> neophiodne su tehničke informacije.
>>
>> Informacija na nivou postoji problem a to je odlična priča ne pije vodu.
>> Neophodna je "mini studija izvodljivosti" kako bi se utvrdilo da li NIGP
>> može da pomogne ili ne.
>> Dakle, svesni smo postojanja problema i znamo da smatrate da je rešenje
>> server (serveri). Da li imate projekciju i znate koliko čega vam treba? Ne
>> znate? Hade da sračunamo.
>> Takođe, neophodan mi je podatak o većini zajednice iz prostog razloga da
>> vidimo koliko ljudi bi radilo ili koristilo dodeljene resurse (Možda vam je
>> projekcija loša).
>> Moj najveći strah je da vam treba više resursa u odnosu na ono što možemo
>> da izdvojimo. Ako pitate koliko je resursa moguće? Bez znanja šta tačno
>> radimo i šta je tehnička projekcija, onda je to ništa.
>>
>> Govorimo o trajnjem rešenju, najpre dodela hardverskih resursa za hosting
>> i publikaciju ažurnih podata za teritoriju Srbije.
>> Predlog je da napravimo minimalnu, optimalnu i neku naprednu projekciju.
>>
>> Uticaj na OSM je moguć, ali u ovom trenutku nema smisla govoriti o tome
>> jer bi bilo neozbiljno sa moje strane.
>> Moja komunikacija prema vama je otvorena i dobronamerna, pa vas molim za
>> razumevanje.
>>
>> Ukoliko ste skeptični prema mojim namerama, u tom slučaju bih vas zamolio
>> da informaciju koja mi je neophodna prosledite na n...@rgz.gov.rs.
>> Takođe, pozivam vas da poglededate našu novu aplikaciju
>> https://a3.geosrbija.rs/. Karta koja liči na OSM mapu je nastala od
>> autorativnih podataka.
>>
>> Moja jedina molba ide ka tome da potencijlne prepirke ostavimo sa strane
>> i brzo reagujemo.
>>
>> Nisam siguran koju vrstu nejasnoća imate.
>> Za sva pitanja stojim na raspolaganju.
>>
>> S poštovanjem,
>> Nemanja Paunić
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-17 14:47 

Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 11/17/2017 07:34 PM, Andy Townsend wrote:
> Also, there is such a thing as "fake balance".  Imagine you're
> running an article about someone who's discussing ways to offset the
> problems caused by the Mercator projection; you don't then need to also
> quote someone from the Flat Earth Society for the sake of impartiality.

This is actually quite important. In the US, after the election, I read
a lot of media critique where people said that many papers had
misunderstood their journalistic impartiality as having to give both
sides of an argument equal coverage, however nonsensical one side may
have been. This mistake that was made by well-meaning, liberal-thinking,
fairness-aspiring journalists, it was claimed, contributed to giving the
country Trump.

Let's not fall into the same trap.

Also, let's not try and tell the weekly how to do their job. I prefer a
critical and occasionally opinionated weekly that enjoys the freedom of
the press over a sanctioned and moderated "state media" that is always
polite and only reports successes and advances, and glosses over any
acrimony that might exist in the community.

I'm immensely thankful that we have the weekly, and that it has formed
independently of the powers that be in the OSMF, and that it dares to
report things the OSMF wouldn't necessarily blog about, and that they
aren't required to submit to some OSMF redaction. I find something to
dislike in every issue, but that's not the point; the fact that we have
a free press at all more than makes up for that.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Importation des arbres municipaux de Grenoble

[Paul Desgranges]

Hello, merci, je regarderai moi aussi ce week-end les trois fichiers que 
tu as fourni, pour te donner un avis en plus

Paul


Le 17/11/2017 à 22:06, sly (sylvain letuffe) a écrit :


Vincent Frison wrote

Le voici donc, valide pendant un mois: https://files.fm/u/shq299cz

J'ai fais de nombreux sondages aléatoires à l'aide des photos aériennes
récentes et ça à l'air de la bonne qualité, très cohérent avec l'existant,
et sans doublons trouvés.
Je ne passe toutefois pas assez souvent sur Grenoble pour tenter une vérif
"in situ".

L'algo a donc l'air de bien bosser en plus d'une donnée source de bonne
qualité, c'est tout bon !

Note: Il semble qu'un double encodage UTF-8 se soit glissé dans
l'incorporation des genus/species
Fichier genfile-for-creation.osm ligne 1670 par exemple :

 
   







-



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Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Talk-rs Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5

[Predrag Milanovic]

Немања,

Колико ми је познато Националном инфраструктуром геопросторних података се
управља кроз одељење у Републичком геодетском заводу. Да ли то значи да нам
РГЗ жели помоћи?
Највећа помоћ РГЗ-а би била у томе да нам дозволи да користимо одређене
скупове података за подлоге. Ако смо скромни, за концепт који је имењак
Супуровић навео са custom tile serverom, довољан је и неки линукс VPS од
пар евра месечно и то свакако није ништа спектакуларно, a за све се користи
open-sourсe па нема ни трошкова за лиценце.

Поздрав,
Предраг



2017-11-17 15:42 GMT+01:00 Немања Паунић :

> Poštovani gospodine Predraže, ostatku liste kome sam nemerno zahvalan na
> učešću,
>
> Ideja je kranje jednostavna. Pokušavamo da OSM mapama u Srbiji damo
> neophodnu podršku i pomoć kako bi projekat bilo moguće voditi na teritoriji
> cele republike, dakle uključujući Kosovo i Metohiju.
> Pregledom foruma pronašao sam vašu ideju da se samostalno organizujete na
> izdvojenom serveru. Takođe, video sam da imate problem sa administrativnim
> granicama.
>
> Ideja ide ka ustupanju resursa omogućenih od strane NIGPa za potrebe OSMa
> Srbije i ka omogućavanju seta podataka sa administrativnim jedinicama.
> Ukoliko to nije moguće u ovom trenutku jer ne postoje dovoljni resursi
> onda da pokušamo da uključimo u plan za sledeću godinu.
>
> Moje lično mišljenje je da OSM priča u Srbiji zaslužuje nacionalnu pažnju,
> da su koristi od ažurnih karata nemeljvie i u toj ideji nisam usamljen.
> Međutim, kako bi ideju izložili i branili da ona dobije status zvanične
> neophiodne su tehničke informacije.
>
> Informacija na nivou postoji problem a to je odlična priča ne pije vodu.
> Neophodna je "mini studija izvodljivosti" kako bi se utvrdilo da li NIGP
> može da pomogne ili ne.
> Dakle, svesni smo postojanja problema i znamo da smatrate da je rešenje
> server (serveri). Da li imate projekciju i znate koliko čega vam treba? Ne
> znate? Hade da sračunamo.
> Takođe, neophodan mi je podatak o većini zajednice iz prostog razloga da
> vidimo koliko ljudi bi radilo ili koristilo dodeljene resurse (Možda vam je
> projekcija loša).
> Moj najveći strah je da vam treba više resursa u odnosu na ono što možemo
> da izdvojimo. Ako pitate koliko je resursa moguće? Bez znanja šta tačno
> radimo i šta je tehnička projekcija, onda je to ništa.
>
> Govorimo o trajnjem rešenju, najpre dodela hardverskih resursa za hosting
> i publikaciju ažurnih podata za teritoriju Srbije.
> Predlog je da napravimo minimalnu, optimalnu i neku naprednu projekciju.
>
> Uticaj na OSM je moguć, ali u ovom trenutku nema smisla govoriti o tome
> jer bi bilo neozbiljno sa moje strane.
> Moja komunikacija prema vama je otvorena i dobronamerna, pa vas molim za
> razumevanje.
>
> Ukoliko ste skeptični prema mojim namerama, u tom slučaju bih vas zamolio
> da informaciju koja mi je neophodna prosledite na n...@rgz.gov.rs.
> Takođe, pozivam vas da poglededate našu novu aplikaciju
> https://a3.geosrbija.rs/. Karta koja liči na OSM mapu je nastala od
> autorativnih podataka.
>
> Moja jedina molba ide ka tome da potencijlne prepirke ostavimo sa strane i
> brzo reagujemo.
>
> Nisam siguran koju vrstu nejasnoća imate.
> Za sva pitanja stojim na raspolaganju.
>
> S poštovanjem,
> Nemanja Paunić
>
>
> 2017-11-17 14:47 GMT+01:00 :
>
>> Send Talk-rs mailing list submissions to
>> talk-rs@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> talk-rs-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> talk-rs-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Talk-rs digest..."
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: Talk-rs Digest, Vol 47, Issue 4 (Немања Паунић)
>>2. Re: Talk-rs Digest, Vol 47, Issue 4 (Predrag Milanovic)
>>
>>
>> ---Прослеђена порука--
>> From: "Немања Паунић" 
>> To: talk-rs@openstreetmap.org
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:53:19 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Talk-rs Digest, Vol 47, Issue 4
>> Poštovani Dragutine,
>>
>> Ideja postoji nezvanično, pa je i komunikacija trenutno u skladu sa tim.
>> Meni je izuzetno zadovoljstvo da ova lista nije mrtva i da sam naišao na
>> vašu zainteresovanost.
>>
>> Molim vas za poverenje, kako bi konačno stvari pomerili u povoljnom smeru
>> za Srbiju.
>> Cilj nam je da pronađemo rešenje u skladu sa onim čime raspolažemo.
>>
>> Kako bi ovu priču postavili na što zdravije noge, najpre mi trebaju
>> tehničke činjenice sa kojima možemo u planiranje i zvaničnih stavova.
>> Problema smo svesni svi.
>>
>> S poštovanjem,
>> Nemanja Paunić
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-17 13:00 GMT+01:00 :
>>
>>> Send Talk-rs mailing list 

Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Mikel Maron]

One request. Can we not relitigate thie topic of Yuri's tool on this thread. 
Want to focus on helping WeeklyOSM to improve its coverage of our whole 
community.
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Friday, November 17, 2017, 4:29:39 PM EST, Steve Doerr 
 wrote:  
 
 On 17/11/2017 20:50, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> One important aspect was missing in the announcement. The tool's new 
> name is a tiny part of a much bigger set of community suggested and 
> requested changes. Fully ignoring functionality changes that many 
> community members suggested is biased.
>
> Mechanical edit claim was also never justified -- saying it's a 
> mechanical edit tool doesn't fit with the community's own definition, 
> per wiki. Just the other day the importance of using the right word 
> was mentioned - when I allegedly missed the word "deprecated". Let's 
> keep things consistent, and not dilute or change the meaning of 
> existing terms to fit the immediate agenda.
>

+1


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Erreur de limite admin sur l'ile de la réunion ?

[PanierAvide]

Bonsoir,

Il semblerait, de source locale, que ce soit bien le cas. La résidence 
ici [1] comporte dans son adresse postale la mention du quartier 
Sainte-Clotilde [2]. Ce serait donc vrai pour Le Moufia, et à priori le 
Chaudron. La Bretagne aucune idée.


Cordialement,

Adrien.

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/147328121
[2] http://www.crous-reunion.fr/logement/cite-louis-timagene-houat/

Le 16/11/2017 à 22:05, Stéphane Péneau a écrit :

Hello !

A priori, la limite administrative du "quartier" Sainte-Clotilde, sur 
l'ile de la Réunion, serait bien plus petite dans Osm qu'elle ne l'est 
en réalité.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3107586

Selon Wikipédia,  ce quartier en englobe d'autres, comme Le Chaudron, 
La Bretagne, Le Moufia.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sainte-Clotilde_(La_R%C3%A9union)

Est-ce que quelqu'un connait suffisamment la région pour m'éclairer ?

Stf


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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/11/2017 20:50, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
One important aspect was missing in the announcement. The tool's new 
name is a tiny part of a much bigger set of community suggested and 
requested changes. Fully ignoring functionality changes that many 
community members suggested is biased.


Mechanical edit claim was also never justified -- saying it's a 
mechanical edit tool doesn't fit with the community's own definition, 
per wiki. Just the other day the importance of using the right word 
was mentioned - when I allegedly missed the word "deprecated". Let's 
keep things consistent, and not dilute or change the meaning of 
existing terms to fit the immediate agenda.




+1


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Importation des arbres municipaux de Grenoble

[sly (sylvain letuffe)]

Vincent Frison wrote
> Le voici donc, valide pendant un mois: https://files.fm/u/shq299cz

J'ai fais de nombreux sondages aléatoires à l'aide des photos aériennes
récentes et ça à l'air de la bonne qualité, très cohérent avec l'existant,
et sans doublons trouvés.
Je ne passe toutefois pas assez souvent sur Grenoble pour tenter une vérif
"in situ".

L'algo a donc l'air de bien bosser en plus d'une donnée source de bonne
qualité, c'est tout bon !

Note: Il semble qu'un double encodage UTF-8 se soit glissé dans
l'incorporation des genus/species 
Fichier genfile-for-creation.osm ligne 1670 par exemple :
   

  






-
-- 
sly, contact direct : sylvain /a\ letuffe o r g
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Sletuffe
--
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Yuri Astrakhan]

One important aspect was missing in the announcement. The tool's new name
is a tiny part of a much bigger set of community suggested and requested
changes. Fully ignoring functionality changes that many community members
suggested is biased.

Mechanical edit claim was also never justified -- saying it's a mechanical
edit tool doesn't fit with the community's own definition, per wiki. Just
the other day the importance of using the right word was mentioned - when I
allegedly missed the word "deprecated". Let's keep things consistent, and
not dilute or change the meaning of existing terms to fit the immediate
agenda.
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Re: [Talk-de] CS 53865594

[Scholtes, Martin]

Leider nein, dazu schaut mal in die Diskussion des CS.

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Martin Koppenhoefer [mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 17. November 2017 19:16
An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch 
Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] CS 53865594

Am 17. November 2017 um 19:12 schrieb Michael Reichert <
osm...@michreichert.de>:

> Anhand der zeitlichen Abstände kann man übrigens sehen, dass er die 
> Objekte nicht gesichtet hat und ein Revert gerechtfertigt ist.



kann man nicht, weil vielleicht hat er ja in aller Ruhe gesichtet, ist da 
vielleicht sogar überall hingefahren, und hat dann in einem Rutsch hochgeladen 
;-)

Sieht aber ein bisschen verdächtig aus.

Gruß,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-ee] Haldusreform

[Mihkel Oviir]

See ei ole ju Maa-ameti ametlik andmete jagamise kanal?

17.11.2017 11:53 AM kirjutas kuupäeval "Tormi Tabor" :

> Maa-amet lisas eile reformijärgse EHAK'i, csv ja json formaadid siin:
> https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/releases/tag/20171116
>
> Tervitades,
> Tormi Tabor
> 5451 3000
>
> 25. oktoober 2017 23:19 kirjutas Tormi Tabor :
>
>> Suhtlesin Maa-ametiga. Vana asukoht ja struktuur säilib ;)
>>
>> Taust: https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/issues/51#issuecomment-339177579
>>
>> Tervitades,
>> Tormi Tabor
>> 5451 3000
>>
>> 9. oktoober 2017 17:02 kirjutas Tormi Tabor :
>>
>>> Aitäh uue failide asukoha URLi eest! Ehk annab mappida. Tegin issue, et
>>> meelest ei läheks: https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/issues/51
>>>
>>> Geogig-i ei ole proovinud.
>>>
>>> Tormi
>>>
>>>
>>> 9. oktoober 2017 16:34 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :
>>>

 Äge!

 Mõistagi on maaamet pannud uued piirid teisele lehele ja pisut teise
 andmete struktuuriga, et omapoolne diffi kavalus keeruliseks kui mitte
 võimatuks muuta (nt aname -> a_name atribuudi nimes jms)
 http://geoportaal.maaamet.ee/est/Andmed-ja-kaardid/Hald
 us-ja-asustusjaotus/Haldusreformijargsed-haldus-ja-asustusja
 otuse-piirid-p577.html

 p.s. http://geogig.org/ oled katsetanud?

 Jaak

 On 9 Oct 2017, at 13:50, Tormi Tabor  wrote:

 Tere.
 '
 Lihtsalt infoks, et ma login aadressil https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/
 juba mõnda aega igakuiselt Maa-ameti shapefaile. Konverdin need enne csv-ks
 ja json-iks, et info muutuks versioneeritavaks. Viimase muudatuse (sept >
 okt) logi: https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/pull/50/commits/58a103
 6f92f416d82c2feedfa7f1e4c64e9bdaab

 Tervitades,
 Tormi Tabor
 5451 3000

 9. oktoober 2017 11:04 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :

> Hoi,
>
> Käes on 2017 ja haldusreform, ning ette tuleks võtta “väike” OSM
> parandus:
>
> a) Halduspiirid.
>  - Uued maakonnad, vallad ja külad on Shapefailidena saadaval maaameti
> kodulehel. Seda saab taustainfona kasutada, parandused tuleks minumeelest
> käsitsi teha.
>  - Külade tasemel on vist muutunud eelkõige nimed.
>  - Uusi valdu on õnneks vähem kui vanu - vanad tuleks vist kõik
> kustutada ja uued tekitada uutest küladest ükshaaval
>  - Uued maakonnad teha uutest valdadadest/omavalistustest
>  - võib teha mingi jagatud wikilehe (google docs?) kus on kirjas mis
> külad/vallad on üle vaadatud ja parandatud?
>
> b) aadressid.
>  - peaks tekkima aadressregistris (ADS) tabel, kus on vana ja uus
> aadress. hetkel veel vist pole. On online web-teenus küll juba.
>  - Üldiselt ADS mõistes lühiaadressid, mida me punktidena kaardistame
> (tänava nimi ja majanumber), ei tohiks isegi muutuda, muutub
> küla/omavalitsus mis läheb automaatselt korda kui on halduspiirid
> korrigeeritud.
>  - Maaamet on lubanud ka sihtnumbreid/postiindekseid ADS-i juurde,
> kuidas neid kaardistada ma hästi ei teagi. Variandid oleks tekitada
> piirkonnad (aga Eesti postiindeks pole sisuliselt geograafiline), või siis
> igale aadresspunktile indeks juurde tag-ina; või siis suisa 
> relatsioonidena
> lahendada teha (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
> /wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code
> ).
>
>
> Mõlema kohta ettepanekud teretulnud.
>
> Jaak
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Mikel Maron]

> I don't think you could argue with "perceived by many as unreasonable" - just 
>wade through the recent archives of the talk mailing list again and weigh the 
>arguments for and against.
It's just not ok to call out an individual like that. It's not appropriate, not 
correct and not helpful.  The dynamic of the discussion be expressed much 
better, with full information, without disrespecting each other. I'm happy to 
find ways to help WeeklyOSM if you all agree that the issue of impartiality is 
an important and serious one to take on.

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Friday, November 17, 2017, 1:35:58 PM EST, Andy Townsend 
 wrote:  
 
  On 17/11/2017 17:52, Mikel Maron wrote:
  
   Yes, doing this is hard work, and appreciate the job WeeklyOSM has to do. 
Point is, statements like "Yuri is as unreasonable as before and tries to 
ignore all the unwritten rules in OSM" is inappropriate, and there are many 
better ways to summarize the topic.   
 
 Well to be fair, the article as written didn't actually say that - it said "is 
perceived by many as unreasonable".
 
 Full disclosure - I'm an occasional contributor to the weekly OSM newsletter.  
I didn't add or edit that article (actually I didn't contribute to any last 
week - you can usually tell the ones I've written because they have more links 
and perhaps too many words in them), but although perhaps a little over-concise 
I don't think you could argue with "perceived by many as unreasonable" - just 
wade through the recent archives of the talk mailing list again and weigh the 
arguments for and against.  Also, there is such a thing as "fake balance".  
Imagine you're running an article about someone who's discussing ways to offset 
the problems caused by the Mercator projection; you don't then need to also 
quote someone from the Flat Earth Society for the sake of impartiality.
 
 Secondly - and this is a point that applies to many other areas of OSM too - 
there seem far more people willing to contribute their copy-editing skills here 
on a mailing list than actually helping put _next_ week's newsletter together.  
It's not a new phenomenon - a short while ago WeeklyOSM had a complaint from an 
OSM-centric organisation (let's call it "X") that "we never report on what's 
happening with X".  It was politely suggested to the complainer that perhaps 
they ought to volunteer themselves; then they could submit all the articles 
they like.  It went very quiet after that.
 
 It's a similar situation with technical discussions elsewhere ("you ought to 
render X like Y", "you ought to change how the osm.org website works so I don't 
have to build infrastructure for $project", "Nominatim ought to support my 
$odd_non_address_search_example").
 
 Although there's always room for improvement, much of what's around OSM now 
has a surprisingly low bar for entry, whether it's creating a map based on OSM 
data that shows $favourite_but_quite_rare_tag, or answering questions on the 
help site or forum, or as here, volunteering to submit and review a few news 
articles a week.
 
 Best Regards,
 Andy
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Andy Townsend]

On 17/11/2017 17:52, Mikel Maron wrote:
Yes, doing this is hard work, and appreciate the job WeeklyOSM has to 
do. Point is, statements like "Yuri is as unreasonable as before and 
tries to ignore all the unwritten rules in OSM" is inappropriate, and 
there are many better ways to summarize the topic.


Well to be fair, the article as written didn't actually say that - it 
said "is perceived by many as unreasonable".


Full disclosure - I'm an occasional contributor to the weekly OSM 
newsletter.  I didn't add or edit that article (actually I didn't 
contribute to any last week - you can usually tell the ones I've written 
because they have more links and perhaps too many words in them), but 
although perhaps a little over-concise I don't think you could argue 
with "perceived by many as unreasonable" - just wade through the recent 
archives of the talk mailing list again and weigh the arguments for and 
against.  Also, there is such a thing as "fake balance".  Imagine you're 
running an article about someone who's discussing ways to offset the 
problems caused by the Mercator projection; you don't then need to also 
quote someone from the Flat Earth Society for the sake of impartiality.


Secondly - and this is a point that applies to many other areas of OSM 
too - there seem far more people willing to contribute their 
copy-editing skills here on a mailing list than actually helping put 
_next_ week's newsletter together.  It's not a new phenomenon - a short 
while ago WeeklyOSM had a complaint from an OSM-centric organisation 
(let's call it "X") that "we never report on what's happening with X".  
It was politely suggested to the complainer that perhaps they ought to 
volunteer themselves; then they could submit all the articles they 
like.  It went very quiet after that.


It's a similar situation with technical discussions elsewhere ("you 
ought to render X like Y", "you ought to change how the osm.org website 
works so I don't have to build infrastructure for $project", "Nominatim 
ought to support my $odd_non_address_search_example").


Although there's always room for improvement, much of what's around OSM 
now has a surprisingly low bar for entry, whether it's creating a map 
based on OSM data that shows $favourite_but_quite_rare_tag, or answering 
questions on the help site or forum, or as here, volunteering to submit 
and review a few news articles a week.


Best Regards,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Christoph Hormann]

On Friday 17 November 2017, Mikel Maron wrote:
> statements like "Yuri is as unreasonable as before and
> tries to ignore all the unwritten rules in OSM" is inappropriate,

First: This is not what weeklyOSM has written.
Second: I disagree this is inappropriate - inprecise maybe, but not 
inappropriate.

> and 
> there are many better ways to summarize the topic.

Here we agree - although you probably would consider most better ways to 
summarize the discussion to be even less appropriate.

It is quite simply a fact that the way Yuri has interacted with the OSM 
community during the last months has led to a lot of people developing 
a fairly bad opinion of him, his attitude and what he does.  If you try 
to prevent people from articulating these opinions and prevent others - 
those in the weeklyOSM team - from reporting on and communicating about 
this in the way they perceive it, including the intensity and extent of 
the displeasure felt by those in the discussion, you are going to do 
more damage to the OSM community than either Yuri or anyone maybe going 
on occasion a bit overboard with their choice of words in the 
discussion.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Yves]

Le 17 novembre 2017 17:27:05 GMT+01:00, Mikel Maron  a 
écrit :

>> Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list
>about the tool now called Sophox. The discussion continues to be quite
>contentious.
>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 
>
>On Friday, November 17, 2017, 11:23:23 AM EST, Martin Koppenhoefer
> wrote:  
> 
> 2017-11-17 16:53 GMT+01:00 Mikel Maron :
>
>Now try this version...
>> Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list
>about the tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called Sophox). The
>discussion continues to be quite contentious.
>
Ok, now it's completely hollow. 
But this is interesting, and I *do* find the original from Weekly a bit harsh. 
Please, Mikel, do you want to try now to add some content on the actual thread? 
Yves 

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Re: [Talk-de] CS 53865594

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am 17. November 2017 um 19:12 schrieb Michael Reichert <
osm...@michreichert.de>:

> Anhand der zeitlichen Abstände kann man übrigens sehen, dass er die
> Objekte nicht gesichtet hat und ein Revert gerechtfertigt ist.



kann man nicht, weil vielleicht hat er ja in aller Ruhe gesichtet, ist da
vielleicht sogar überall hingefahren, und hat dann in einem Rutsch
hochgeladen ;-)

Sieht aber ein bisschen verdächtig aus.

Gruß,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] CS 53865594

[Michael Reichert]

Hallo Martin,

Am 17.11.2017 um 14:41 schrieb Scholtes, Martin:
> Hab das cs kommentiert.
> Wenn ich bis heute Abend keine Antwort habe, mach ich einen revert.
> Einwände?

Einwände habe ich nicht, aber bitte schau dir auch die vorhergehenden
und nachfolgenden Änderungssätze an. Sie sind gleicher Natur. Wenn du
den einen revertierst, dann revertiere Gleichartige bitte mit.

Anhand der zeitlichen Abstände kann man übrigens sehen, dass er die
Objekte nicht gesichtet hat und ein Revert gerechtfertigt ist.

Viele Grüße

Michael


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Mikel Maron]

Yes, doing this is hard work, and appreciate the job WeeklyOSM has to do. Point 
is, statements like "Yuri is as unreasonable as before and tries to ignore all 
the unwritten rules in OSM" is inappropriate, and there are many better ways to 
summarize the topic.
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Friday, November 17, 2017, 12:35:44 PM EST, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 wrote:  
 
 2017-11-17 17:27 GMT+01:00 Mikel Maron :


Good point. Try this..
> Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the 
>tool now called Sophox. The discussion continues to be quite contentious.


but then the message boils down to: "Yuri Astrakhan is discussing a re-named 
tool (Sophox) on the talk mailing list", and you have to go there and read 
through everything in order to actually get "information".
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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.5.0

[Daniel Koć]

Dear all,

Today, v4.5.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on openstreetmap.org) has been released.

Changes include:

Major changes
- Cleaning up low zoom levels (z5-z7):
  - Rendering roads from z6 instead of z5
  - Rendering national parks from z8 instead of z7
  - Rendering railways from z8 instead of z7
- Changing parking color from yellow to gray

Changes
- Unified rendering of leisure=fitness_station and leisure=fitness_centre
- Rendering of military=bunker
- Rendering all station buildings as major buildings
- Text wrapping for station labels
- Changing windmill color from amenity brown to man_made gray
- Some other documentation and code changes

Thanks to all the contributors for this release.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v4.4.0...v4.5.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cartopartie : Libre information sur les services de santé, tous acteurs, tous concernés ! jeudi 16 novembre à Digne

[Jean-Christophe Becquet]

Le 08/11/2017 07:15, Jean-Christophe Becquet a écrit :
> Les derniers préparatifs sont en cours
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cartopartie_:_Libre_information_sur_les_services_de_sant%C3%A9,_tous_acteurs,_tous_concern%C3%A9s_!_jeudi_16_novembre_2017_%C3%A0_Digne

Bonsoir,

Notre stand Cartopartie sur le salon Domotique santé hier à Digne n'a
pas désempli.

Quelques réactions
https://twitter.com/DBagarry/status/931166376890392576
https://twitter.com/AssoAdrets/status/931104593811066880
https://twitter.com/Fabeveynes/status/931136993756569600
https://twitter.com/PatriciaGranet/status/931186768497598465
https://twitter.com/AssoAdrets/status/931450613950570496

Les dernières contributions sur OpenStreetMap à Digne-les-Bains sont
visibles sur http://tyrasd.github.io/latest-changes/#14/44.0905/6.2241

D'autres nouvelles prochainement.

Bon week-end

Librement

JC
-- 
Les logiciels libres pour les collectivités locales et les administrations
http://www.apitux.org/index.php?2007/07/05/178-les-logiciels-libres-pour-les-collectivites-locales

==APITUX : le choix du logiciel libre==

APITUX - Jean-Christophe Becquet
BP 32 - 04001 Digne-les-Bains Cedex
06 25 86 07 92 - j...@apitux.com - http://www.apitux.com
SIRET : 452 887 441 00031 - APE : 6202A

===

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-11-17 17:27 GMT+01:00 Mikel Maron :

>
> Good point. Try this..
>
> > Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list about
> the tool now called Sophox. The discussion continues to be quite
> contentious.
>


but then the message boils down to: "Yuri Astrakhan is discussing a
re-named tool (Sophox) on the talk mailing list", and you have to go there
and read through everything in order to actually get "information".

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Mikel Maron]

> believe the version you propose is still biased, because Yuri says his tool 
>isn't about performing mechanical edits.
Good point. Try this..
> Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the 
>tool now called Sophox. The discussion continues to be quite contentious.
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Friday, November 17, 2017, 11:23:23 AM EST, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 wrote:  
 
 2017-11-17 16:53 GMT+01:00 Mikel Maron :

Now try this version...
> Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the 
>tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called Sophox). The discussion 
>continues to be quite contentious.

This is better. It gets the same substantial information across, but does not 
call out judgement on an individual, and allows the reader to enter the 
discussion with an open mind.


Thank you Mikel for the insights, but I believe the version you propose is 
still biased, because Yuri says his tool isn't about performing mechanical 
edits. ;-)
Cheers,Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Ian Dees]

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Friday 17 November 2017, Mikel Maron wrote:
> >
> > > Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list
> > > about the tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called Sophox).
> > > The discussion continues to be quite contentious.
> >
> > This is better. It gets the same substantial information across, but
> > does not call out judgement on an individual, and allows the reader
> > to enter the discussion with an open mind. -Mikel
>
> Yikes!
>
> You are aware that Yuri considers this tool not a mechanical edit tool
> so maybe lets also censor that part of the message...
>
> I sincerely hope the weeklyOSM team ignores such advise.  No one really
> wants a shallow, politically whitewashed verbal ornamentation of the
> links carefully vetted not to hurt anyone that could be generated by a
> bot (yes, there is some irony in that).


I don't know about a "shallow, politically whitewashed verbal ornamentation
of the links", but I *do* want to see WeeklyOSM (and the rest of the
community) try harder to not hurt individuals or make disparaging remarks
about any particular member or project in this community.

There are so many things happening in the OSM community: the WeeklyOSM team
could do a better job at editorial control so that they could talk about
all those things without letting politics or opinions show up in their
posts.
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Yves]

Good exercise Mikel, but using only 'contentious' you don't mention the issues 
raised in the discussion. 
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Christoph Hormann]

On Friday 17 November 2017, Mikel Maron wrote:
>
> > Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list
> > about the tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called Sophox).
> > The discussion continues to be quite contentious.
>
> This is better. It gets the same substantial information across, but
> does not call out judgement on an individual, and allows the reader
> to enter the discussion with an open mind. -Mikel

Yikes!

You are aware that Yuri considers this tool not a mechanical edit tool 
so maybe lets also censor that part of the message...

I sincerely hope the weeklyOSM team ignores such advise.  No one really 
wants a shallow, politically whitewashed verbal ornamentation of the 
links carefully vetted not to hurt anyone that could be generated by a 
bot (yes, there is some irony in that).

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-11-17 16:53 GMT+01:00 Mikel Maron :

> Now try this version...
>
> > Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list about
> the tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called Sophox). The discussion
> continues to be quite contentious.
>
> This is better. It gets the same substantial information across, but does
> not call out judgement on an individual, and allows the reader to enter the
> discussion with an open mind.
>


Thank you Mikel for the insights, but I believe the version you propose is
still biased, because Yuri says his tool isn't about performing mechanical
edits. ;-)

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Mikel Maron]

> Anyway, it's sad to see that WeeklyOSM has abandoned all attempt at 
>impartiality
Impartiality is an ongoing issue for any journalistic enterprise. WeeklyOSM has 
at times done better, and done worse. I think WeeklyOSM is a really valuable 
service, and I hope the editors there are open to our help to become a better 
service for the whole OSM community.
Let's look at this example, and see if we can come up with something better. 
Compare the original version...
> Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the 
> tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called Sophox). Yuri is perceived by 
> many as unreasonable as before and tries to ignore all the unwritten rules in 
> OSM.

and this version
> Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the 
>tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called Sophox). Yuri is as unreasonable 
>as before and tries to ignore all the unwritten rules in OSM.
This is worse, but I posit not much worse. While the published version does 
semantically avoid WeeklyOSM making this judgement, the meaning comes through 
much the same.
Now try this version...
> Yuri Astrakhan re-started the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the 
>tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called Sophox). The discussion 
>continues to be quite contentious.

This is better. It gets the same substantial information across, but does not 
call out judgement on an individual, and allows the reader to enter the 
discussion with an open mind.
-Mikel

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Friday, November 17, 2017, 6:52:25 AM EST, Rafael Avila Coya 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi:

I've read the majority of the posts of the "New OSM Quick-Fix service" 
thread in OSM-talk, and I don't see any partiality in the post of the 
WeeklyOSM. In fact, I think they have been very polite and diplomatic.

Cheers,

Rafael.

On 17/11/17 11:34, Steve Doerr wrote:
> On 17/11/2017 08:20, weeklyteam wrote:
>> Yuri Astrakhanre-started 
>> the
>>  discussion on the Talk mailing list about the tool to do mechanical edits 
>> (it is now called/Sophox/). Yuri is perceived by many as unreasonable as 
>> before and tries to ignore all the unwritten rules in OSM.
> 
> 
> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one 
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress 
> depends on the unreasonable man."
> -George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman (1903)
> 
> 
> Anyway, it's sad to see that WeeklyOSM has abandoned all attempt at 
> impartiality.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
>  
>     Virus-free. www.avast.com 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> 
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> 

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Re: [OSM-ja] Merchandise(OpenStreetMap 帽子)再び

[Noriko Takiguchi]

瀧口です。

来年はOSM Jspan 10周年節目の年とのこと。
緑の帽子と言えば～京都界隈や東京でもすっかりお馴染みのトレードマークですね。色のバリエーションもありですか？
グリーン、ライム、ダークグリーンなど。ロゴ入りのデザインお任せいたします。
よろしくお願いいたします。
皆で帽子かぶってマッピングパーティしましょう！


2017/11/17 午前1:14 "Toshihisa Tanaka" :

> としです．
>
> 2014年の話題になるのですが，
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ja/2014-July/008447.html
> [OSM-ja] Merchandise (OSM 関連グッズ)(ステッカー，帽子，風呂敷)
>
> と言う内容で，OpenStreetMap 帽子を作ったことがあります．
>
> この OpenStreetMap 帽子ですが，再度作ろうかなと思っています．
> 経緯ですが，先日の関西のイベント(K-OF)で，この帽子の話が少しありまして，
> また作ると希望される方がいるかも？という話になったのが経緯です．
>
> 2014年作成時の帽子は，↓に写真があります．
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Tosihisa/Merchandise
>
> 前回と同じでも良いのですが，せっかく作るのだったら(?!)，前回とは違う
> ものを作りたいなぁと思っていますが，前回のと同じ方が良いかもしれません．
> ＃こういうのを考えるのが楽しいのです...
>
> で，もし OpenStreetMap 帽子を希望される方がいましたら，その方の希望も
> ふまえて考えてみようと思いますので，お知らせ頂けたらと思います．
>
> 最近，私はあまりお役に立っていませんので，こういう形でもと思っています．
> ＃本音を言うと作りたいだけです...すみません！
>
> ではこれにて
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Marquage et jalonnement en randonnée

[JB]

Le 17/11/2017 à 09:36, Christian Quest a écrit :
Ces poteaux matérialisent des itinéraires... ont ils été mappés dans 
une relation ?
Pas forcément. Selon les régions, il peut y avoir simplement de la 
signalisation de croisement à croisement, des directions vers des points 
d'intérêt, ou des itinéraires plus ou moins long.


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Re: [Talk-de] CS 53865594

[Scholtes, Martin]

Hab das cs kommentiert.
Wenn ich bis heute Abend keine Antwort habe, mach ich einen revert.
Einwände?

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Martin Koppenhoefer [mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 17. November 2017 14:32
An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch 
Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] CS 53865594

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53865594

Sieht nach einem nicht diskutierten automatischen Edit aus, in sehr 
überschaubarem Rahmen.

Gruß,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] CS 53865594

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53865594

Sieht nach einem nicht diskutierten automatischen Edit aus, in sehr
überschaubarem Rahmen.

Gruß,
Martin
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[Talk-de] CS 53865594

[Scholtes, Martin]

Hallo zusammen,

 

weiß jemand was von der Änderungen im CS 53865594?

Scheint mir etwas pauschal?

 

Gruß
Martin

 

 

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Re: [OSM-ja] Merchandise(OpenStreetMap 帽子)再び

[森 智幸]

森と申します。


帽子いいですね。
デザインはお任せしますが、前回のだとグリーンがOSMらしくて好きです。


差出人: Toshihisa Tanaka 
送信日時: 2017年11月17日 1:13
宛先: OpenStreetMap Japanese talk
件名: [OSM-ja] Merchandise(OpenStreetMap 帽子)再び

としです．

2014年の話題になるのですが，

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ja/2014-July/008447.html
[OSM-ja] Merchandise (OSM 関連グッズ)(ステッカー，帽子，風呂敷)

と言う内容で，OpenStreetMap 帽子を作ったことがあります．

この OpenStreetMap 帽子ですが，再度作ろうかなと思っています．
経緯ですが，先日の関西のイベント(K-OF)で，この帽子の話が少しありまして，
また作ると希望される方がいるかも？という話になったのが経緯です．

2014年作成時の帽子は，↓に写真があります．
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Tosihisa/Merchandise

前回と同じでも良いのですが，せっかく作るのだったら(?!)，前回とは違う
ものを作りたいなぁと思っていますが，前回のと同じ方が良いかもしれません．
＃こういうのを考えるのが楽しいのです...

で，もし OpenStreetMap 帽子を希望される方がいましたら，その方の希望も
ふまえて考えてみようと思いますので，お知らせ頂けたらと思います．

最近，私はあまりお役に立っていませんので，こういう形でもと思っています．
＃本音を言うと作りたいだけです...すみません！

ではこれにて

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Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Talk-rs Digest, Vol 47, Issue 4

[Немања Паунић]

Poštovani Dragutine,

Ideja postoji nezvanično, pa je i komunikacija trenutno u skladu sa tim.
Meni je izuzetno zadovoljstvo da ova lista nije mrtva i da sam naišao na
vašu zainteresovanost.

Molim vas za poverenje, kako bi konačno stvari pomerili u povoljnom smeru
za Srbiju.
Cilj nam je da pronađemo rešenje u skladu sa onim čime raspolažemo.

Kako bi ovu priču postavili na što zdravije noge, najpre mi trebaju
tehničke činjenice sa kojima možemo u planiranje i zvaničnih stavova.
Problema smo svesni svi.

S poštovanjem,
Nemanja Paunić




2017-11-17 13:00 GMT+01:00 :

> Send Talk-rs mailing list submissions to
> talk-rs@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-rs-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-rs-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-rs digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih
>   podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova (Dragutin Cvetkovic)
>
>
> ---Прослеђена порука--
> From: Dragutin Cvetkovic 
> To: OpenStreetMap Serbia 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 11:39:02 +
> Subject: Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Saradnja sa Nacionalnom
> infrastrukturom geoprostornih podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova
> Postovani g. Paunovicu,
>
> Drago mi je sto ste se obratili ovoj zajednici.
>
> Medjutim, smatram da bi se vasa inicijativa uzela daleko ozbljinije kada
> bi ste joj se obracali sa zvanicnog e-maila institucije koju predstavljate
> ovde.
>
> Hvala unapred,
> --Dragutin Cvetkovic
>
>
> 2017-11-17 6:37 GMT+00:00 Немања Паунић :
>
>> Dragi Predraže,
>>
>> Zahvaljujem se na tako brzom odgovoru.
>>
>> Ideja je da Zajednici omogućimo prikupljanje podataka za teritoriju cele
>> Srbije. Dakle, da mapa uključuje Kosovo i Metohiju.
>>
>> Pratio sam vašu diskusiju na forumu i tamo je jasno rečeno da ne postoji
>> volja unutar OSMa,  a da je potencijalno rešenje lokalni server na kome se
>> mogu prikupljati podaci pod istom licencom.
>>
>> Moje obraćanje ka vama ide u pravcu razrađivanja te ideje. Pre bilo
>> kakvog zvaničnog stava želeo bih da zajedno utvrdimo šta je tačno neophodno
>> od resursa, kolika je trenutna zajednica i koja je neka gruba projekcija
>> saobraćaja...
>>
>> Dakle, da bi ova priča zaživela neophodni su brojevi, tehnologija u
>> upotrebi itd. Na osnovu toga bi se pokrenula priča o pregledu raspoloživih
>> resursa i trenutnim kapacitetima.
>>
>> Iskreno se nadam da je NIGP taj koji može da pomogne.
>>
>> Pitanje podataka administrativnih jedinica verujem da neće biti problem.
>>
>> Srdačan pozdrav,
>> Nemanja
>>
>> On 16 Nov 2017 13:00,  wrote:
>>
>> Send Talk-rs mailing list submissions to
>> talk-rs@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs
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>>1. Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih
>>   podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova (Немања Паунић)
>>2. Re: Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih
>>   podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova (Predrag Milanovic)
>>
>>
>> ---Прослеђена порука--
>> From: "Немања Паунић" 
>> To: talk-rs@openstreetmap.org
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:58:30 +0100
>> Subject: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom
>> geoprostornih podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova
>> Pozdrav Zajednice,
>>
>> Da li je ovo prava adresa za pokrenuti nezvanični razgovor u ime
>> Nacionalne infrastrukture geoprostornih podataka i rešavanje pitanja Kosova
>> uz državnu podršku? :)
>>
>> Takođe, video sam da imate pokrenuta pitanja oko netačnih
>> administrativnih jedinica koje se razlikuju od zvaničnih podataka.
>>
>> Ukoliko jeste, za početak mi treba par osoba za komunikaciju koje mi mogu
>> reći šta vam je neophodno u tehničkom smislu.
>> Zamolio bih vas da reagujemo brzo. :)
>>
>> Srdačan pozdrav,
>> Nemanja Paunić
>>
>>
>> ---Прослеђена порука--
>> From: Predrag Milanovic 
>> To: OpenStreetMap Serbia 
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:30:10 +0100
>> 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Vincent Bergeot]

Et je l'ai fait en Français car Izpura est le nom basque de la ville 
d'Ispoure, proche de Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port 
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/168245#map=14/43.1849/-1.2386), 
j'ai supposé donc un bilinguisme franco-basque, et je ne parle pas basque !


Si quelqu'un sait traduire en basque :)



Le 17/11/2017 à 13:10, Vincent Bergeot a écrit :


Le 17/11/2017 à 08:21, Christian Quest a écrit :

Si je comprends bien:
- ça fait des mois qu'on discute des contributions de cet utilisateur
- il n'y a eu que 2 changeset commentés il y a quelques jours seulement
- il y a eu plein de revert de faits

autre chose ? Des échanges de messages directs ?


Bonjour,
en privé le 17 octobre, sans aucune réponse de sa part (copie d'écran 
en PJ):

"Ajout des noms basques ou carte en Basque ?
izpura
17 octobre 2017 à 10h54

Bonjour, je me permets de venir vers vous car j'ai l'impression qu'il 
y a une bataille d'édition sur le contenu du tag name.


Plutôt que la bataille d'édition, ne faut-il pas envisager un rendu 
cartographique en basque, comme les bretons par exemple ont pu le 
faire ici.


Je n'ai pas les compétences techniques, mais dispo pour en discuter, 
voire trouver les compétences techniques !!!


Bonne journée"

à plus








C'est quand même light, non ?



Le 17 novembre 2017 à 04:42, Francois Gouget > a écrit :


On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, marc marc wrote:
[...]
> Du coup je comprend pas la suite de ton message.
> D'un côté tu as l'air de dire qu'on aurait du faire la procédure
> DWG + tôt (je partage ton avis), de l'autre tu as l'air de dire
> que la première étape (communiquer) est facultative.

J'ai l'impression que cet utilisateur a été largement prévenu,
même si
ce n'est peut-être pas de la façon prévue par la procédure
officielle.
Avec en plus le flou qui reigne on obtient cette position
contradictoire
au premier abord.


> Ajouter des outils pour détecter ou rapporter ce genre de problème
> ne sert à rien si lorsqu'il est détecté, personne ne veux
> lancer la procédure nécessaire pendant des mois...

Problème de dilution des responsabilités ?

Si je comprend bien personne n'est chargé de s'occuper de ces cas
là et
donc tout le monde espère que quelqu'un d'autre va s'y coller (ce qui
est bien compréhensible). Désigner à l'avance une personne à
contacter
qui va coordonner / gérer ces cas pourrait faire partie des
'améliorations' dont je supputais l'existence.


--
Francois Gouget >
http://fgouget.free.fr/
                  A black hole is just God dividing by zero.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Vincent Bergeot]

Le 17/11/2017 à 08:21, Christian Quest a écrit :

Si je comprends bien:
- ça fait des mois qu'on discute des contributions de cet utilisateur
- il n'y a eu que 2 changeset commentés il y a quelques jours seulement
- il y a eu plein de revert de faits

autre chose ? Des échanges de messages directs ?


Bonjour,
en privé le 17 octobre, sans aucune réponse de sa part (copie d'écran en 
PJ):

"Ajout des noms basques ou carte en Basque ?
izpura
17 octobre 2017 à 10h54

Bonjour, je me permets de venir vers vous car j'ai l'impression qu'il y 
a une bataille d'édition sur le contenu du tag name.


Plutôt que la bataille d'édition, ne faut-il pas envisager un rendu 
cartographique en basque, comme les bretons par exemple ont pu le faire ici.


Je n'ai pas les compétences techniques, mais dispo pour en discuter, 
voire trouver les compétences techniques !!!


Bonne journée"

à plus








C'est quand même light, non ?



Le 17 novembre 2017 à 04:42, Francois Gouget > a écrit :


On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, marc marc wrote:
[...]
> Du coup je comprend pas la suite de ton message.
> D'un côté tu as l'air de dire qu'on aurait du faire la procédure
> DWG + tôt (je partage ton avis), de l'autre tu as l'air de dire
> que la première étape (communiquer) est facultative.

J'ai l'impression que cet utilisateur a été largement prévenu, même si
ce n'est peut-être pas de la façon prévue par la procédure officielle.
Avec en plus le flou qui reigne on obtient cette position
contradictoire
au premier abord.


> Ajouter des outils pour détecter ou rapporter ce genre de problème
> ne sert à rien si lorsqu'il est détecté, personne ne veux
> lancer la procédure nécessaire pendant des mois...

Problème de dilution des responsabilités ?

Si je comprend bien personne n'est chargé de s'occuper de ces cas
là et
donc tout le monde espère que quelqu'un d'autre va s'y coller (ce qui
est bien compréhensible). Désigner à l'avance une personne à contacter
qui va coordonner / gérer ces cas pourrait faire partie des
'améliorations' dont je supputais l'existence.


--
Francois Gouget >
http://fgouget.free.fr/
                  A black hole is just God dividing by zero.
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Rafael Avila Coya]

Hi:

I've read the majority of the posts of the "New OSM Quick-Fix service" 
thread in OSM-talk, and I don't see any partiality in the post of the 
WeeklyOSM. In fact, I think they have been very polite and diplomatic.


Cheers,

Rafael.

On 17/11/17 11:34, Steve Doerr wrote:

On 17/11/2017 08:20, weeklyteam wrote:
Yuri Astrakhanre-started 
the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called/Sophox/). Yuri is perceived by many as unreasonable as before and tries to ignore all the unwritten rules in OSM.



"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one 
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress 
depends on the unreasonable man."

-George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman (1903)


Anyway, it's sad to see that WeeklyOSM has abandoned all attempt at 
impartiality.



--

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Christoph Hormann]

On Friday 17 November 2017, Steve Doerr wrote:
>
> Anyway, it's sad to see that WeeklyOSM has abandoned all attempt at
> impartiality.

Huh?

"perceived by many as unreasonable as before" is a clear statement of 
distancing themselves from this opinion.

Impartiality does not mean you have to present every marginal opinion on 
a matter equally.  Supplementing a news item on a discussion with a 
summary of the results of the discussion is just good journalism.

My criticism would be that "unreasonable" - while it applies - is not 
the main impression people have got from Yuri here.  I could list a 
number of words i would find fitting but stating them here would 
probably be considered offensive by some.  I could imagine the 
weeklyOSM editors were looking for a word that avoids this and ended up 
with "unreasonable".

And George Bernard Shaw's idea does not work with any of these other, 
more fitting terms - sorry. ;-)

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Philippe Verdy]

Non deux de mes changesets ont aussi commenté en indiquant cette liste en
référence. Cependant je n'ai pas tout fait avec le même outil, ensuite pour
aller plus vite j'ai utilisé Osmose et j'ai appliqué. Je lui ai écrit aussi
directment par la messagerie OSM (message en direct)

Le 17 novembre 2017 à 08:21, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Si je comprends bien:
> - ça fait des mois qu'on discute des contributions de cet utilisateur
> - il n'y a eu que 2 changeset commentés il y a quelques jours seulement
> - il y a eu plein de revert de faits
>
> autre chose ? Des échanges de messages directs ?
>
> C'est quand même light, non ?
>
>
>
> Le 17 novembre 2017 à 04:42, Francois Gouget  a écrit :
>
>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, marc marc wrote:
>> [...]
>> > Du coup je comprend pas la suite de ton message.
>> > D'un côté tu as l'air de dire qu'on aurait du faire la procédure
>> > DWG + tôt (je partage ton avis), de l'autre tu as l'air de dire
>> > que la première étape (communiquer) est facultative.
>>
>> J'ai l'impression que cet utilisateur a été largement prévenu, même si
>> ce n'est peut-être pas de la façon prévue par la procédure officielle.
>> Avec en plus le flou qui reigne on obtient cette position contradictoire
>> au premier abord.
>>
>>
>> > Ajouter des outils pour détecter ou rapporter ce genre de problème
>> > ne sert à rien si lorsqu'il est détecté, personne ne veux
>> > lancer la procédure nécessaire pendant des mois...
>>
>> Problème de dilution des responsabilités ?
>>
>> Si je comprend bien personne n'est chargé de s'occuper de ces cas là et
>> donc tout le monde espère que quelqu'un d'autre va s'y coller (ce qui
>> est bien compréhensible). Désigner à l'avance une personne à contacter
>> qui va coordonner / gérer ces cas pourrait faire partie des
>> 'améliorations' dont je supputais l'existence.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Francois Gouget   http://fgouget.free.fr/
>>   A black hole is just God dividing by zero.
>> ___
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>> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] road completion project

[joost schouppe]

I'm enjoying working on the task myself. Here are a few of the cases that
show what this project is all about:

http://maproulette.org/map/2789/3111819?
http://maproulette.org/map/2789/3119207?
http://maproulette.org/map/2789/3111814?
http://maproulette.org/map/2789/3117909?
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/11/2017 08:20, weeklyteam wrote:
Yuri Astrakhanre-started 
the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called/Sophox/). Yuri is perceived by many as unreasonable as before and tries to ignore all the unwritten rules in OSM.



"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one 
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress 
depends on the unreasonable man."

-George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman (1903)


Anyway, it's sad to see that WeeklyOSM has abandoned all attempt at 
impartiality.



--

Steve



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[Talk-it] Maptime Milano

[Marco Minghini]

Ciao a tutti,
visto che l'avviso non mi sembra essere già passato in lista, vi informo
che lunedì 27 novembre dalle 19 alle 21 ci sarà la prossima puntata del
Maptime Milano, come sempre a Opendot [1].
Qui [2] la pagina dell'evento.
Ciao!

Marco

[1] https://osm.org/go/0CjEraG6g-?m=
[2] http://www.opendotlab.it/calendario/scandaglio-sondiamo-la-citta/

Marco Minghini, Ph.D.
GEOlab, Politecnico di Milano - DICA
Piazza Leonardo da Vinci 32, 20133 Milano (Italy)
+39 02 23996409 <+39%2002%202399%206409>
marco.mingh...@polimi.it
@MarcoMinghini 
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Re: [Talk-ee] kaart.maakaart masina lõpp

[Mihkel Oviir]

Kasutasin seda:
http://kaart.maakaart.ee/osm/tiles/1.0.0/osm_EPSG900913/{z}/{x}/{y}.png?origin=nw
Samas kuna see ei uuenenud viimasel ajal siis selle kadumine on rohkem
nostalgia.
id-editoriga aga osmi modisin ikka pidevalt. See kiht on ju isegi
id-editori kihivalikus olemas. WGS84 minuteada id-editor ei toeta (?),
EPSG:3587 oleks õige. Vähe usutav, et maa-amet seda pakkuma hakkab.

mihkel


17. november 2017 11:16 kirjutas Tormi Tabor :

> > Kiusan pisut Maaameti inimesi, et nad oma teenuse teeksid OSM editoriga
> ühilduvaks.
>
> +1. Olen Tanel Hurdaga sel teemal 2014 suhelnud, toona oli vastus "WGS84
> tuge TMS-ile ei ole lähiajal oodata."
>
> Tervitades,
> Tormi Tabor
> 5451 3000
>
> 17. november 2017 11:03 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :
>
>>
>> Mida täpselt sealt kasutasid? Kui vaja tõesti, tekitaks otsast
>> samanimelise tänapäevase virtuaali, ma oletan et koormus pole kõrge ja saab
>> väiksema ressursiga hakkama.
>>
>> On see http://kaart.maakaart.ee/tiles/1.0.0/osm_EPSG900913/${z}
>> /${x}/${y}.png?origin=nw  - MapProxy-põhine WMS->cached tile teenus?
>>
>> Kiusan pisut Maaameti inimesi, et nad oma teenuse teeksid OSM editoriga
>> ühilduvaks. Seni tundub et nende tiled on vaid Eesti projektsioonis
>> jätkuvalt.
>>
>>
>> Jaak
>>
>> On 16 Nov 2017, at 16:49, Mihkel Oviir  wrote:
>>
>> ää, ja ka osm'i muutmise jaoks tehtud maa-ameti orto?
>>
>> 16. november 2017 16:47 kirjutas Mihkel Oviir :
>>
>>> Seega Eestikeelne maakaart on ajalugu? Kahju, oli mul ühes kohas
>>> kasutusel...
>>>
>>> 16. november 2017 15:49 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :
>>>
 Hoi,

 Tartu LV informaatikute palvel sai toodud nende juurest maakaardi
 server ära (http://www.maakaart.ee/index.php/kasutamine/kaartmaakaartee),
 ja vedasin ta enda töö kontorisse (Tartu Raeplatsil samuti). Moraalselt on
 see ligi 6-aastane Supermicro kast vananenud tänaseks - on hulk HDD kettaid
 (osad isegi SAS, teised SATA), mälu mida ei saa laiendada jne, vaata
 detaile https://github.com/osmee/maakaart-ee/blob/master/not
 es/Silja_riistvara.wiki.md. Füüsiliselt kestaks iseenesest veel mõned
 aastad.

 Käima enam ei pannud, sest selle võrku taasühendamine on päris palju
 jändamist. Kui seal on mõni teenus, mida tõesti on vaja ja mujalt ei leia,
 siis tõenäoliselt on lihtsam kasutada mõnda odavat virtuaalpakkujat, ja
 sinna panna värske tarkvara ja andmed; vanal masinal kasvõi elektrikulu
 tuleb suurem.

 Kui on kellelgi vajadust või hea mõte mida “vanarauaga” teha, andke
 teada. Lisaks on Juniper-i SRX100 riistvaraline tulemüür/ruuter, mille
 moraalne olukord on sarnane.

 Jaak

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>>>
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Re: [Talk-ee] kaart.maakaart masina lõpp

[Tormi Tabor]

> Kiusan pisut Maaameti inimesi, et nad oma teenuse teeksid OSM editoriga
ühilduvaks.

+1. Olen Tanel Hurdaga sel teemal 2014 suhelnud, toona oli vastus "WGS84
tuge TMS-ile ei ole lähiajal oodata."

Tervitades,
Tormi Tabor
5451 3000

17. november 2017 11:03 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :

>
> Mida täpselt sealt kasutasid? Kui vaja tõesti, tekitaks otsast
> samanimelise tänapäevase virtuaali, ma oletan et koormus pole kõrge ja saab
> väiksema ressursiga hakkama.
>
> On see http://kaart.maakaart.ee/tiles/1.0.0/osm_EPSG900913/${
> z}/${x}/${y}.png?origin=nw  - MapProxy-põhine WMS->cached tile teenus?
>
> Kiusan pisut Maaameti inimesi, et nad oma teenuse teeksid OSM editoriga
> ühilduvaks. Seni tundub et nende tiled on vaid Eesti projektsioonis
> jätkuvalt.
>
>
> Jaak
>
> On 16 Nov 2017, at 16:49, Mihkel Oviir  wrote:
>
> ää, ja ka osm'i muutmise jaoks tehtud maa-ameti orto?
>
> 16. november 2017 16:47 kirjutas Mihkel Oviir :
>
>> Seega Eestikeelne maakaart on ajalugu? Kahju, oli mul ühes kohas
>> kasutusel...
>>
>> 16. november 2017 15:49 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>>
>>> Tartu LV informaatikute palvel sai toodud nende juurest maakaardi server
>>> ära (http://www.maakaart.ee/index.php/kasutamine/kaartmaakaartee), ja
>>> vedasin ta enda töö kontorisse (Tartu Raeplatsil samuti). Moraalselt on see
>>> ligi 6-aastane Supermicro kast vananenud tänaseks - on hulk HDD kettaid
>>> (osad isegi SAS, teised SATA), mälu mida ei saa laiendada jne, vaata
>>> detaile https://github.com/osmee/maakaart-ee/blob/master/not
>>> es/Silja_riistvara.wiki.md. Füüsiliselt kestaks iseenesest veel mõned
>>> aastad.
>>>
>>> Käima enam ei pannud, sest selle võrku taasühendamine on päris palju
>>> jändamist. Kui seal on mõni teenus, mida tõesti on vaja ja mujalt ei leia,
>>> siis tõenäoliselt on lihtsam kasutada mõnda odavat virtuaalpakkujat, ja
>>> sinna panna värske tarkvara ja andmed; vanal masinal kasvõi elektrikulu
>>> tuleb suurem.
>>>
>>> Kui on kellelgi vajadust või hea mõte mida “vanarauaga” teha, andke
>>> teada. Lisaks on Juniper-i SRX100 riistvaraline tulemüür/ruuter, mille
>>> moraalne olukord on sarnane.
>>>
>>> Jaak
>>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Importation des arbres municipaux de Grenoble

[Vincent Frison]

Le 17 novembre 2017 à 00:14, sly (sylvain letuffe)  a
écrit :

> Si tu as déjà fait l'outil, ça serait bien de fournir si c'est possible le
> fichier osm résultant, plusieurs personnes, et surtout ceux de grenoble
> pourront ainsi faire un sondage sur quelques arbres et juger de la qualité
> du fichier d'origine et du process.
>

J'ai déjà envoyé en privé tout le XML à des personnes mais effectivement le
mieux est que je fournisse un lien public.

Le voici donc, valide pendant un mois: https://files.fm/u/shq299cz

J'ai grand grand peur que des arbres puissent atterrir dans un bâtiment
> privé, sur une route, dans une fontaine, etc.

Et je sais qu'il est tentant de dire : c'est les autres qui ont mal
> positionné leur fontaine/batiment/etc. mais osm n'est pas une base ou on
> empile des datas opensource, la cohérence relative des éléments les uns par
> rapport aux autres me semble préférable en étant décalé de 5m qu'un arbre
> sur un toit.
> Ou alors, la tâche d'importation est manuelle, un par un et s'occupe de
> vérifier qui à tort qui a raison et consiste à recaller les éléments
> autour.
>

Pour la superposition avec des bâtiments c'est pas possible puisque je fais
une vérification (pour les fontaine non plus si celles ci sont faites avec
un building).
Pour les routes je n'ai pas remarqué de superpositions jusqu'à présent mais
je vais y prêter attention...

Pour les tree_rows j'avoue qu'ils ne sont pas pris en compte, enfin sauf
s'ils sont composés d'arbres qui existent également individuellement
(auquel cas ils pourront être fusionnés avec les nouveaux arbres). C'est en
tout cas une très bonne remarque et je vais voir si je peux les prendre en
compte dans mon algo même si effectivement là dans le cas de Grenoble je
vais pouvoir les gérer manuellement vu leur faible nombre (une petite
vingtaine).

PS: merci Julien d'avoir mis en copie l'adresse du groupe local de
Grenoble, j'aurais du y penser...
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Re: [Talk-ee] kaart.maakaart masina lõpp

[Jaak Laineste]

Mida täpselt sealt kasutasid? Kui vaja tõesti, tekitaks otsast samanimelise 
tänapäevase virtuaali, ma oletan et koormus pole kõrge ja saab väiksema 
ressursiga hakkama.

On see 
http://kaart.maakaart.ee/tiles/1.0.0/osm_EPSG900913/${z}/${x}/${y}.png?origin=nw
 

  - MapProxy-põhine WMS->cached tile teenus? 

Kiusan pisut Maaameti inimesi, et nad oma teenuse teeksid OSM editoriga 
ühilduvaks. Seni tundub et nende tiled on vaid Eesti projektsioonis jätkuvalt.


Jaak

> On 16 Nov 2017, at 16:49, Mihkel Oviir  wrote:
> 
> ää, ja ka osm'i muutmise jaoks tehtud maa-ameti orto?
> 
> 16. november 2017 16:47 kirjutas Mihkel Oviir  >:
> Seega Eestikeelne maakaart on ajalugu? Kahju, oli mul ühes kohas kasutusel...
> 
> 16. november 2017 15:49 kirjutas Jaak Laineste  >:
> Hoi,
> 
> Tartu LV informaatikute palvel sai toodud nende juurest maakaardi server ära 
> (http://www.maakaart.ee/index.php/kasutamine/kaartmaakaartee 
> ), ja vedasin ta 
> enda töö kontorisse (Tartu Raeplatsil samuti). Moraalselt on see ligi 
> 6-aastane Supermicro kast vananenud tänaseks - on hulk HDD kettaid (osad 
> isegi SAS, teised SATA), mälu mida ei saa laiendada jne, vaata detaile 
> https://github.com/osmee/maakaart-ee/blob/master/notes/Silja_riistvara.wiki.md
>  
> .
>  Füüsiliselt kestaks iseenesest veel mõned aastad.
> 
> Käima enam ei pannud, sest selle võrku taasühendamine on päris palju 
> jändamist. Kui seal on mõni teenus, mida tõesti on vaja ja mujalt ei leia, 
> siis tõenäoliselt on lihtsam kasutada mõnda odavat virtuaalpakkujat, ja sinna 
> panna värske tarkvara ja andmed; vanal masinal kasvõi elektrikulu tuleb 
> suurem. 
> 
> Kui on kellelgi vajadust või hea mõte mida “vanarauaga” teha, andke teada. 
> Lisaks on Juniper-i SRX100 riistvaraline tulemüür/ruuter, mille moraalne 
> olukord on sarnane.
> 
> Jaak
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Christian Quest]

Todo list...
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/errors/?source=73=6040=802

Le 17 novembre 2017 à 09:43, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> J'ai remis une couche...
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53058939
>
> Là, non seulement, le name=* a été modifié, mais en plus le name:fr a été
> supprimé ce qui montre quand même de mon point de vue une volonté autre que
> l'amélioration des données OpenStreetMap.
>
> Le 17 novembre 2017 à 08:21, Christian Quest  a
> écrit :
>
>> Si je comprends bien:
>> - ça fait des mois qu'on discute des contributions de cet utilisateur
>> - il n'y a eu que 2 changeset commentés il y a quelques jours seulement
>> - il y a eu plein de revert de faits
>>
>> autre chose ? Des échanges de messages directs ?
>>
>> C'est quand même light, non ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 17 novembre 2017 à 04:42, Francois Gouget  a écrit :
>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, marc marc wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> > Du coup je comprend pas la suite de ton message.
>>> > D'un côté tu as l'air de dire qu'on aurait du faire la procédure
>>> > DWG + tôt (je partage ton avis), de l'autre tu as l'air de dire
>>> > que la première étape (communiquer) est facultative.
>>>
>>> J'ai l'impression que cet utilisateur a été largement prévenu, même si
>>> ce n'est peut-être pas de la façon prévue par la procédure officielle.
>>> Avec en plus le flou qui reigne on obtient cette position contradictoire
>>> au premier abord.
>>>
>>>
>>> > Ajouter des outils pour détecter ou rapporter ce genre de problème
>>> > ne sert à rien si lorsqu'il est détecté, personne ne veux
>>> > lancer la procédure nécessaire pendant des mois...
>>>
>>> Problème de dilution des responsabilités ?
>>>
>>> Si je comprend bien personne n'est chargé de s'occuper de ces cas là et
>>> donc tout le monde espère que quelqu'un d'autre va s'y coller (ce qui
>>> est bien compréhensible). Désigner à l'avance une personne à contacter
>>> qui va coordonner / gérer ces cas pourrait faire partie des
>>> 'améliorations' dont je supputais l'existence.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Francois Gouget   http://fgouget.free.fr/
>>>   A black hole is just God dividing by zero.
>>> ___
>>> Talk-fr mailing list
>>> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Christian Quest]

J'ai remis une couche...

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53058939

Là, non seulement, le name=* a été modifié, mais en plus le name:fr a été
supprimé ce qui montre quand même de mon point de vue une volonté autre que
l'amélioration des données OpenStreetMap.

Le 17 novembre 2017 à 08:21, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Si je comprends bien:
> - ça fait des mois qu'on discute des contributions de cet utilisateur
> - il n'y a eu que 2 changeset commentés il y a quelques jours seulement
> - il y a eu plein de revert de faits
>
> autre chose ? Des échanges de messages directs ?
>
> C'est quand même light, non ?
>
>
>
> Le 17 novembre 2017 à 04:42, Francois Gouget  a écrit :
>
>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, marc marc wrote:
>> [...]
>> > Du coup je comprend pas la suite de ton message.
>> > D'un côté tu as l'air de dire qu'on aurait du faire la procédure
>> > DWG + tôt (je partage ton avis), de l'autre tu as l'air de dire
>> > que la première étape (communiquer) est facultative.
>>
>> J'ai l'impression que cet utilisateur a été largement prévenu, même si
>> ce n'est peut-être pas de la façon prévue par la procédure officielle.
>> Avec en plus le flou qui reigne on obtient cette position contradictoire
>> au premier abord.
>>
>>
>> > Ajouter des outils pour détecter ou rapporter ce genre de problème
>> > ne sert à rien si lorsqu'il est détecté, personne ne veux
>> > lancer la procédure nécessaire pendant des mois...
>>
>> Problème de dilution des responsabilités ?
>>
>> Si je comprend bien personne n'est chargé de s'occuper de ces cas là et
>> donc tout le monde espère que quelqu'un d'autre va s'y coller (ce qui
>> est bien compréhensible). Désigner à l'avance une personne à contacter
>> qui va coordonner / gérer ces cas pourrait faire partie des
>> 'améliorations' dont je supputais l'existence.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Francois Gouget   http://fgouget.free.fr/
>>   A black hole is just God dividing by zero.
>> ___
>> Talk-fr mailing list
>> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>



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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 16 November 2017 at 20:19, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> Robert, I don't have official branch numbers from Shell. Identifiers that
> are being added in "ref:navads_shell" will be used for updating the data, to
> skip the matching step.

As I said, I don't think it's appropriate to include such third-party
refs in OSM. I do agree that it's convenient to have a ref for
matching -- but I don't think that's enough of a reason to include
these third-party refs. Ilya, is there any way that you could ask for
the official Shell refs to be added to the dataset you have?

Robert.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

I see that not all questions were resolved in May.

Regarding the license: NavAds are authorized to upload all Shell fuel stations 
to any maps. They are paid to do that. You can find Shell, among others, in 
their partners directory: https://navads.eu/industries/

NavAds have also signed the contract with us, that includes these words (MY.COM 
is our parent company):

--
Supplier grants MY.COM B.V. a worldwide, transferable, irrevocable and 
perpetual right to use, copy, modify, process, compile, archive, incorporate, 
display, distribute and/or use, in any way MY.COM B.V. sees fit at its sole 
discretion, any or all portions of the Supplier Content, distributed to MY.COM 
B.V. through any means, in combination with any products or services developed 
by or for MY.COM B.V..

If any Supplier Content will be provided as dynamic or real-time data through 
an application programming interface (“API”). Supplier grants MY.COM B.V. a 
transferable license to integrate the API within MY.COM B.V.’s internal systems 
in order to enable access to, and use of, the API for the delivery of Supplier 
Content.

...

* By submitting Listings to MY.COM B.V., SUPPLIER grants MY.COM B.V. the right 
to publish, amend, make available to the public the Listings subject to the 
terms and conditions of this Agreement.

* MY.COM provides Navads access to an OSM importing account during the length 
of contract term to upload data to the OSM platform.
--

Regarding the source for coordinates: I do not have that in writing, but during 
one of the calls they explained that they get a list of addresses, then geocode 
them and cross-check using multiple sources, including Google, Bing and OSM, 
and then manually correct each location using various satellite imagery. From 
location accuracy it's pretty obvious that there was more than just geocoding.

Ilya


> 17 нояб. 2017 г., в 11:14, Adam Snape  написал(а):
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 16 November 2017 at 20:19, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> As for the questions about license and location quality, I answered these in 
> May:
> 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2017-May/020216.html
> 
>  
> Not completely. I'm not convinced that the word of a third party (nothing 
> personal) that another company has been paid by Shell to input their business 
> locations into various online maps necessarily equates to Shell consenting to 
> their data being released under the ODBL. Nor am I satisfied with your 
> (again, nothing personal but as a third-party) assurance that the co-ordinate 
> information "all placed properly on top of the fuel stations" with an "error 
> of less than 10 metres" is "definitely not geo-coded". Somebody able to offer 
> that certain assurance about how data was definitely not acquired should be 
> equally able to explain how it definitely was acquired.
> 
> I apologise if this seems like I am being obtuse but OSM has a long-standing 
> policy of using sources which we are certain are okay for us to use. These 
> are the standards we hold public sector open data releases to.. If this does 
> (as Brian hopes) set a precedent private data releases, it should confrom to 
> the community's existing import standards, not set a precedent of vagueness 
> regarding licencing. I do hope you can clear this up and we can map the 
> locations because there is lots of useful information there. 
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Adam


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Marquage et jalonnement en randonnée

[Christian Quest]

+1 sur le faite que ce n'est pas name=* qui est adapté.

Ces poteaux matérialisent des itinéraires... ont ils été mappés dans une
relation ?

Si non... il faudrait peut être commencer par ça, non ?

Si oui, pourquoi ne pas ajouter les poteaux comme membres de la relation
avec un role=guidepost si on veut avoir un lien explicite ? Je lien
implicite est déjà là, car géographique entre les poteaux et les way
composant l'itinéraire.


Le 17 novembre 2017 à 09:19, althio  a écrit :

> Je suis d'accord avec la ligne de pensée de sly.
> Le poteau n'a pas vraiment de "name".
>
> Je verrais plutôt le tag "inscription=*" comme sur les plaques, monuments,
> …
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:inscription
>
> Pourquoi pas faire aussi le lien explicite avec l'élément réel qui porte
> effectivement le "name=*", grâce à une relation ou une référence wikidata ?
>
> Le travail de modélisation pour du routage entre poteaux est d'un autre
> niveau de complexité. Peut être avec des relations type route. Mais cela
> vient clairement après.
>
> -- althio
>
> On Nov 16, 2017 11:28 PM, "sly (sylvain letuffe)" 
> wrote:
>
>> Pour le rendu qui peut évoluer, ça, j'ai peur que ça soit : ne plus
>> afficher
>> les name des panneaux !
>> Et c'est pas une erreur du rendu vu que ce qui est écrit sur le panneau
>> c'est le nom du col non loin, pas le nom du panneau.
>>
>>
>> emeric Prouteau wrote
>> > Par contre ne pas les indiquer serrait à mon avis dommage car si on
>> > indique
>> > des relations de type direction_sign pour un éventuel futur outil de
>> > routing de rando, le nom d'un bois (Décrivant le bois) identique au nom
>> > d'un poteau serait moins précis que le poteau qui correspond lui à une
>> > distance précise par rapport à un autre poteau.
>>
>> J'entrevois l'idée derrière qui consisterait à réduire le bois, le lac,
>> bref
>> une surface à un point afin d'avoir des temps de marche plus précis depuis
>> le précédent panneau, mais je vois bien l'embrouille qui peut naître du
>> cas
>> suivant : Si ton bois est assez large (disons qu'il faut 30mn pour le
>> traverser) y'a de grande chance qu'on trouve des panneaux à chaque entrée
>> du
>> bois.
>>
>> A--15mn-Bois--30mn---Bois--15mn--B
>>
>> Depuis B il faut 15mn pour aller au bois, depuis A 15mn aussi, mais pour
>> faire A->B il faudra 1h.
>> Bref, derrière cette louable idée d'aider un "routeur de rando" j'ai peur
>> que tant qu'on l'a pas codé, on ne crééer une distorsion de la réalité qui
>> au contraire embrouille l'usage qui peut en être fait. Surtout quand le
>> panneau commence à se situer de plus en plus loin de l'objet qu'il
>> indique.
>>
>> Bon, si encore ça ne restait qu'une donnée morte, on pourrait tenter le
>> coup
>> et attendre que quelqu'un s'en serve, mais j'ai plusieurs exemple ou le
>> name
>> est mis sur le panneau par le contributeur, et, pensant qu'il a fait le
>> nécessaire, ne l'ajoute pas sur l'objet indiqué.
>> Ou constate qu'un panneau avec ce nom existe déjà dans OSM ne saisi pas le
>> col, le sommet, le bois.
>>
>> Bref, je reste pour l'instant sur l'idée que ça fait plus de mal que de
>> bien.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> --
>> sly, contact direct : sylvain /a\ letuffe o r g
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Sletuffe
>> --
>> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/France-f5380434.html
>>
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Re: [Talk-it] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Fire Hydrant Extensions (part 2)

[paolo bubici]

Per me è ok. Per ora siamo un pò pochini che lo utilizzano
correttamente http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/t39
Penso comunque che la nuova proposta
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Dry_riser_inlet
dovesse fare presente o rendere a tutti l'esistenza degli attacchi di
mandata e il suo corretto tag in quanto i mappatori fanno molta confusione
tra suction poit e idranti...possiamo tranquillamente aspettare di votarlo
ma diffondiamolo tra i mappers che mappano "idranti".

Bubix

Il giorno 16 novembre 2017 11:13, Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> 2017-11-11 20:18 GMT+01:00 Alberto :
>
>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Dry_riser_inlet
>>
>> Dovresti contattare l'autore (che mi pare sia Martin), io non me ne sto
>> occupando.
>> Alcuni tag sarebbero da allineare con quelli degli idranti, tipo
>> diameter=*, couplings=*, couplings:type=*, couplings:diameters=*, ...
>
>
>
> ho aggiornato la pagina, vedete se va bene così, poi la posso anche
> portare a votare se vi importa, per me è sempre più importante avere una
> documentazione scritta, se poi tutti si adeguano, dopo qualche anno il tag
> diventa approvato per uso ;-)
>
> Ciao,
> Martin
>
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[OpenStreetMap Serbia] Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova

[Немања Паунић]

Dragi Predraže,

Hvala Vam na prezentaciji situacije.
Za početak predlažem da pokušate da me spojite sa momcima koji poznaju
infrastrukturu.
Za početak mi treba bilo kakva projekcija za resurse. Koji Web gis server
koristite za generisanje tajalova?

Pozdrav,
Nemanja

On 17 Nov 2017 09:10,  wrote:

Send Talk-rs mailing list submissions to
talk-rs@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Talk-rs digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih
  podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova (Немања Паунић)
   2. Re: Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih
  podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova (Pedja Supurovic)
   3. Re: Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih
  podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova (Predrag Milanovic)


---Прослеђена порука--
From: "Немања Паунић" 
To: talk-rs@openstreetmap.org
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 07:37:25 +0100
Subject: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom
geoprostornih podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova
Dragi Predraže,

Zahvaljujem se na tako brzom odgovoru.

Ideja je da Zajednici omogućimo prikupljanje podataka za teritoriju cele
Srbije. Dakle, da mapa uključuje Kosovo i Metohiju.

Pratio sam vašu diskusiju na forumu i tamo je jasno rečeno da ne postoji
volja unutar OSMa,  a da je potencijalno rešenje lokalni server na kome se
mogu prikupljati podaci pod istom licencom.

Moje obraćanje ka vama ide u pravcu razrađivanja te ideje. Pre bilo kakvog
zvaničnog stava želeo bih da zajedno utvrdimo šta je tačno neophodno od
resursa, kolika je trenutna zajednica i koja je neka gruba projekcija
saobraćaja...

Dakle, da bi ova priča zaživela neophodni su brojevi, tehnologija u
upotrebi itd. Na osnovu toga bi se pokrenula priča o pregledu raspoloživih
resursa i trenutnim kapacitetima.

Iskreno se nadam da je NIGP taj koji može da pomogne.

Pitanje podataka administrativnih jedinica verujem da neće biti problem.

Srdačan pozdrav,
Nemanja

On 16 Nov 2017 13:00,  wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih
  podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova (Немања Паунић)
   2. Re: Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih
  podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova (Predrag Milanovic)


---Прослеђена порука--
From: "Немања Паунић" 
To: talk-rs@openstreetmap.org
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:58:30 +0100
Subject: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom
geoprostornih podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova
Pozdrav Zajednice,

Da li je ovo prava adresa za pokrenuti nezvanični razgovor u ime Nacionalne
infrastrukture geoprostornih podataka i rešavanje pitanja Kosova uz državnu
podršku? :)

Takođe, video sam da imate pokrenuta pitanja oko netačnih administrativnih
jedinica koje se razlikuju od zvaničnih podataka.

Ukoliko jeste, za početak mi treba par osoba za komunikaciju koje mi mogu
reći šta vam je neophodno u tehničkom smislu.
Zamolio bih vas da reagujemo brzo. :)

Srdačan pozdrav,
Nemanja Paunić


---Прослеђена порука--
From: Predrag Milanovic 
To: OpenStreetMap Serbia 
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:30:10 +0100
Subject: Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom
geoprostornih podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova
Здраво Немања,

Можда је боље да се дискусија поведе на форуму - чини ми се да њега прати
већи број људи.

Само појашњења ради, на који начин нудиш помоћ? Да ли имаш контакте у РГЗ-у
који нам могу помоћи да дођемо до јавних података или је нешто другу у
питању?

Поздрав,
Предраг

2017-11-15 20:58 GMT+01:00 Немања Паунић :

> Pozdrav Zajednice,
>
> Da li je ovo prava adresa za pokrenuti nezvanični razgovor u ime
> Nacionalne infrastrukture geoprostornih podataka i rešavanje pitanja Kosova
> uz državnu podršku? :)
>
> Takođe, 

[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 382,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9699/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
___
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[Talk-ca] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 382,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9699/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 379

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj, je dostupné vydání 379 týdeníku WeeklyOSM:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/9571

* IPv6 a hosting poloha.net
* Import z POI.CZ?
* OSM mapa v ASCII.
* Problémy s OSM wiki (Verdy_p)
* Asijské nedokončené stezky.
* Ukecaní italové.
* Kde je OSM v roce 2017?
* SotM US 2017.
* Tasking manager v3.
* Robopošták.
* iOS a mapy pro slabozraké.

Pěkné počtení ...

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[Talk-GB] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 382,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9699/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
___
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[Talk-in] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 382,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9699/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
___
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Talk-in@openstreetmap.org
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[talk-ph] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 382,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9699/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
___
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Marquage et jalonnement en randonnée

[althio]

Je suis d'accord avec la ligne de pensée de sly.
Le poteau n'a pas vraiment de "name".

Je verrais plutôt le tag "inscription=*" comme sur les plaques, monuments, …
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:inscription

Pourquoi pas faire aussi le lien explicite avec l'élément réel qui porte
effectivement le "name=*", grâce à une relation ou une référence wikidata ?

Le travail de modélisation pour du routage entre poteaux est d'un autre
niveau de complexité. Peut être avec des relations type route. Mais cela
vient clairement après.

-- althio

On Nov 16, 2017 11:28 PM, "sly (sylvain letuffe)" 
wrote:

> Pour le rendu qui peut évoluer, ça, j'ai peur que ça soit : ne plus
> afficher
> les name des panneaux !
> Et c'est pas une erreur du rendu vu que ce qui est écrit sur le panneau
> c'est le nom du col non loin, pas le nom du panneau.
>
>
> emeric Prouteau wrote
> > Par contre ne pas les indiquer serrait à mon avis dommage car si on
> > indique
> > des relations de type direction_sign pour un éventuel futur outil de
> > routing de rando, le nom d'un bois (Décrivant le bois) identique au nom
> > d'un poteau serait moins précis que le poteau qui correspond lui à une
> > distance précise par rapport à un autre poteau.
>
> J'entrevois l'idée derrière qui consisterait à réduire le bois, le lac,
> bref
> une surface à un point afin d'avoir des temps de marche plus précis depuis
> le précédent panneau, mais je vois bien l'embrouille qui peut naître du cas
> suivant : Si ton bois est assez large (disons qu'il faut 30mn pour le
> traverser) y'a de grande chance qu'on trouve des panneaux à chaque entrée
> du
> bois.
>
> A--15mn-Bois--30mn---Bois--15mn--B
>
> Depuis B il faut 15mn pour aller au bois, depuis A 15mn aussi, mais pour
> faire A->B il faudra 1h.
> Bref, derrière cette louable idée d'aider un "routeur de rando" j'ai peur
> que tant qu'on l'a pas codé, on ne crééer une distorsion de la réalité qui
> au contraire embrouille l'usage qui peut en être fait. Surtout quand le
> panneau commence à se situer de plus en plus loin de l'objet qu'il indique.
>
> Bon, si encore ça ne restait qu'une donnée morte, on pourrait tenter le
> coup
> et attendre que quelqu'un s'en serve, mais j'ai plusieurs exemple ou le
> name
> est mis sur le panneau par le contributeur, et, pensant qu'il a fait le
> nécessaire, ne l'ajoute pas sur l'objet indiqué.
> Ou constate qu'un panneau avec ce nom existe déjà dans OSM ne saisi pas le
> col, le sommet, le bois.
>
> Bref, je reste pour l'instant sur l'idée que ça fait plus de mal que de
> bien.
>
>
>
>
> -
> --
> sly, contact direct : sylvain /a\ letuffe o r g
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Sletuffe
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/France-f5380434.html
>
> ___
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> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
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Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Saradnja sa Nacionalnom infrastrukturom geoprostornih podataka NIGP - Server za hosting Kosova

[Predrag Milanovic]

Немања,

Можеш ли да се представиш? И када говориш у првом лицу множине на кога
мислиш?
Чисто да знамо са којим циљом прикупљаш податке о нама...

Поздрав
Предраг

2017-11-17 8:54 GMT+01:00 Pedja Supurovic :

>
> Ja nisam nešto mnogo upućen u serversku stranu priče. Ima ovde par momaka
> koji su se time bavili mnogo više. Mislim da za početak ne treba nešto
> mnogo resursa. Mi smo se čak nešto dogovarali da o svom trošku to napravimo.
>
> Svrha tog servera bibila da obezbedi online mapu koja može da se slobodno
> koristi za prikaz mapa u razne svrhe, počevši od pomoćnih mapa na sajtovima
> do nekih ozbiljnijih stvari, kao zamena za Google mape s kojima ima
> problema i tehnički a i pravno.
>
> Mislim da podaci u mapu bez problema mogu da se ubacuju i u glavnu mapu.
> Nije problem sama baza nego rendering mape koji u prikazu favorizuje
> šiptarsku otimačinu.
>
> Mapa se korsiti na dva načina.
>
> Prvi je preuzimanje gotovoh sličica, kao što se korsiti Google Maps, i
> potebnoje obezbediti sličice koje prikazuju ispavnu mapu Srbije.
>
> Drugi način je preuzimanje podataka iz baze. To je u stvari mnogo važniji
> aspekt je omogućava korisnicima da preuzmu podatke iz baze i na osnovu njih
> sami renderuju mapu kako im odgovara.
>
> Ево један пример такве мапе: http://files.pedja.supurovic.n
> et/map/zapadna-srbija-biciklisticke-rute-pregledna-karta.png
>
> Zbog toga je potrebno da se izmene i podaci u bazi tako da odražavaju
> ispranu mapu i da bi stanradni alati za rendering iz nje sami po sebi
> generisali ispravne slike.
>
> ---
>
> Sa OpenStreetMap imamo neka tri osnovna problema:
>
> Granica Kosova i prema Srbiji Metohije je označena kao međudržavna granica.
>
> Svi nazivi se prikazuju na šiptarskom jeziku.
>
> Unutrašnje administrativne granice su nacrtane prema podeli koju je uvele
> separatistička vast a ne prema važećoj podeli Republiek Srbije.
>
> Postavljanje nacionalnog servera bi omogućilo da se cela baza
> OpenStreetMap automatski preuzima sa glavnog servera (i tako obezbedi
> potpuna ažurnost) a da se zatim u njoj (opet automatski, prema jasnim
> pravilima) urade izmene tako da se granica Kosova i Metohije prema Srbiji
> preinači u granicu pokrajine i da se nazivi preinače na srpski jezik (za
> većinu podataka već postoje uneseni nazivi na srpskom samo što se u prikazu
> favorizuje šiptarski).
>
> Unutrašnje administrativne granice verujem da se takođe mogu ubaciti i u
> glavnu bazu sa nekom naznakom koja bi učinila da se one ne vide (jer ako bi
> se videle onda bi ih oni odmah izbrisali) ali bi se mogle učiniti vidljivim
> u kopiji na nacionalnom serveru.
>
> ---
>
> Sa političke strane treba nastupiti prema OpenStreetMap na zvaničnom
> državnom nivou sa zahtevom da se poštuje međunarodno pravo i da se stanje
> na mapi uskladi sa važećim propisima. Sumnjam da će na to pristati ali je
> bitno svakako to tražiti.
>
> U svakom slučaju, čak i ako insisitraju da se na mapi prikazuje "faktičko"
> stanje iako je ono nelegalno, onda treba insisitrati da se bar i to
> faktično stanje prikazuje u skladu sa opštim pravilima OpenStreetMaps a to
> je da se oznake ispisuju onako kako su na terenu u skladu sa važečim
> proisima. Čak i prema propisima separatističke vlasti sve oznake se moraju
> pisati dvojezično i na šiptarskm i na srpskom jeziku. OpenStereetMaps to ne
> poštuje već su svi natpisi isključivo na šiptarskom jeziku.
>
> Treba da znate da Šiptari u ovome imaju međunarodnu podršku. Oni su dobili
> finansiranje, opremu, instruktore i aktiviste iz Evrope koji angažuju
> lokalne ljude i sistematski ucrtavaju u mapu onako kako njima odgovara.
>
> U Srbiji, ucrtavanjem u mapu se ljudi bave samo iz entuzijatma i
> volonterski, bez ikakve potpore, ni moralne, ni materijalne i oni nemaju
> šansi da se izbore sa mašinerijom koja stoji iza Šiptara.
>
> Kada je mapa ostlog dela Srbije u pitanju, veliki posao je urađen. Mnogo
> je podataka ucrtano i to kvalitetno.
>
> Što se tiče teritorije Kosova i Metohije, srpski maperi su dobili direktne
> i jasne pretnje da će im biti zabranjeno ucrtavanje u OpenStreetMaps ako
> diraju mapu Kosova i Metohije i menjaju ono što su Šiptari ucrtali. Zato mi
> moramo da ucrtavamo kako oni dozvoljavaju ali nam treba način da od toga
> napravimo mapu kakva je ispravna.
>
> Možda ne bi bilo loše ako bi se u to krenulo ozbiljnije da jedan od
> projekata bude i detaljno ucrtavanje manastira, crkava i drugih kulturnih
> dobara, pa i grobalja sa naznakama koji su objekti porušeni ili
> oskrnavljeni od strane šiptarskih separatista tako da se ti objekti
> pojavljuju i na njihovoj mapi.
>
>
> On 17.11.2017 07:37, Немања Паунић wrote:
>
>> Dragi Predraže,
>>
>> Zahvaljujem se na tako brzom odgovoru.
>>
>> Ideja je da Zajednici omogućimo prikupljanje podataka za teritoriju cele
>> Srbije. Dakle, da mapa uključuje Kosovo i Metohiju.
>>
>> Pratio sam vašu diskusiju na forumu i tamo je jasno rečeno da ne postoji
>> volja unutar OSMa,  a da je potencijalno rešenje