Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help
sent from a phone > On 10. May 2018, at 01:34, Jo wrote: > > Where problems actually do occur is in streets which have a different name on > both sides (only in Belgium, I guess. It happens on streets that form the > border between two 'villages'). Anyway, then the name tag can contain up to 4 > variants. This is not completely unseen in other parts of the world as well, the common solution are name:right and name:left tags. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help
Jo, thx, so if these kinds of objects already have "name:xx" for all mentioned languages, international map would use those instead of the name tag anyway, so that's not an issue. BTW, international maps have launched on Wikipedias! https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2018-May/089964.html On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 2:34 AM Jo wrote: > Where problems actually do occur is in streets which have a different name > on both sides (only in Belgium, I guess. It happens on streets that form > the border between two 'villages'). Anyway, then the name tag can contain > up to 4 variants. > > The separator is ' - ' on purpose, to distinguish it from a simple hyphen. > We were smart enough not to use that ' - ' combination for anything else > than separating 2 language forms. And there is always a name:nl and name:fr > to compare with on those objects. > > Jo > > 2018-05-10 1:10 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer : > >> >> >> sent from a phone >> >> > On 10. May 2018, at 00:47, Yuri Astrakhan >> wrote: >> > >> > In the few rare cases when it does happen, it would be enough to also >> add "name:fr" and "name:nl" tags to fix the issue -- localization would >> take the specific language, and won't even try to parse the name tag. I >> think finding these cases should be relatively easy with OT. >> >> >> The problem I see with less prominent objects is that you only have a >> name and can’t tell whether that is one name in one language or 2 names in >> different languages for the same thing separated by a hyphen. Potentially >> this could happen in other tags like operator as well. >> >> cheers, >> Martin > > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help
Where problems actually do occur is in streets which have a different name on both sides (only in Belgium, I guess. It happens on streets that form the border between two 'villages'). Anyway, then the name tag can contain up to 4 variants. The separator is ' - ' on purpose, to distinguish it from a simple hyphen. We were smart enough not to use that ' - ' combination for anything else than separating 2 language forms. And there is always a name:nl and name:fr to compare with on those objects. Jo 2018-05-10 1:10 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer : > > > sent from a phone > > > On 10. May 2018, at 00:47, Yuri Astrakhan > wrote: > > > > In the few rare cases when it does happen, it would be enough to also > add "name:fr" and "name:nl" tags to fix the issue -- localization would > take the specific language, and won't even try to parse the name tag. I > think finding these cases should be relatively easy with OT. > > > The problem I see with less prominent objects is that you only have a name > and can’t tell whether that is one name in one language or 2 names in > different languages for the same thing separated by a hyphen. Potentially > this could happen in other tags like operator as well. > > cheers, > Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help
Martin, how can we evaluate the extent of this, to see how serious this may be? BTW, I totally agree that doing a guessing game based on "nl - fr" to parse the name is much worse than simply picking "name:nl" or "name:fr" when they are available. names with multiple languages are not very helpful for the truly multilingual maps. On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 2:10 AM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 10. May 2018, at 00:47, Yuri Astrakhan > wrote: > > > > In the few rare cases when it does happen, it would be enough to also > add "name:fr" and "name:nl" tags to fix the issue -- localization would > take the specific language, and won't even try to parse the name tag. I > think finding these cases should be relatively easy with OT. > > > The problem I see with less prominent objects is that you only have a name > and can’t tell whether that is one name in one language or 2 names in > different languages for the same thing separated by a hyphen. Potentially > this could happen in other tags like operator as well. > > cheers, > Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help
sent from a phone > On 10. May 2018, at 00:47, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > > In the few rare cases when it does happen, it would be enough to also add > "name:fr" and "name:nl" tags to fix the issue -- localization would take the > specific language, and won't even try to parse the name tag. I think finding > these cases should be relatively easy with OT. The problem I see with less prominent objects is that you only have a name and can’t tell whether that is one name in one language or 2 names in different languages for the same thing separated by a hyphen. Potentially this could happen in other tags like operator as well. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help
Jo, thx. I just looked at all names inside relation 54094
(Brussels-Capital) - 12.691 names without the " - ", and 22,655 with them,
so makes perfect sense, thanks! I think it doesn't really matter if
default_language is set for the whole Belgium to any specific language, or
left undefined, because the region with the higher admin_level, or a
non-admin smaller region would overwrite it anyway. Thanks for the
explanation!
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 8:46 AM Jo wrote:
> The whole country has 3 official languages. In the north nl is the
> official language, in the south fr. And a small area in the east is de.
> Brussels is officially bilingual. Hence all names there will be a
> combination of fr - nl.
>
> Normally I would expect Belgium to not have default_language set. You may
> have to keep a list of countries where it only makes sense to look at the
> next smaller geographic regions.
>
> I expect the same goes for Switzerland (whole country 3-4 official
> languages, but at the next geographic level it is clear which language is
> spoken/official for which region).
>
> I think in most multilingual countries the regions are not so clearly
> defined.
>
> Jo
>
> 2018-05-09 2:37 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :
>
>> Polyglot, thanks! I just ran the list of names for Belgium -
>> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yEj (takes a few minutes and 20MB download).
>> It seems that most of the names are single language. Even cities tend to
>> be a single language strings, with a few exceptions (e.g. Brussels itself,
>> and the country name).
>>
>> So on one hand, we could set default_language to "nl / fr / de" to match
>> the country name format, or to two languages that match "Bruxelles -
>> Brussel" ("fr - nl" ?). But in reality, the most helpful value is just a
>> single "nl" or "fr" (?), because for almost all "name" tags, there is just
>> a single language. The country name is a very rare exception, but it has
>> many other name:xx defined anyway, so it is not a problem - if user
>> requests "fr" or "nl", there is a name:fr and name:nl. And if user requests
>> something that's not defined, at the end it will still fall back to name
>> tag.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 2:39 AM Jo wrote:
>>
>>> Since there is not 1 language for Belgium and nl;fr;de is not allowed,
>>> it won't be possible to set this tag for Belgium. I did set it on the
>>> regions/communities.
>>>
>>> Polyglot
>>>
>>> 2018-05-08 22:31 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :
>>>
Daniel, I agree - it seems most of the low-zoom Moroccan names are in a
triple-form, and many local names are in a wild mix of french only and
multi-lingual ones: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yE5 (thx trigpoint &
FredrikLindseth on IRC!) Do you want to change it, or should I?
Also, there are still about 60 countries without a tag:
http://tinyurl.com/y9382ewv
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Daniel Koć wrote:
> W dniu 08.05.2018 o 21:31, Yuri Astrakhan pisze:
>
> > This query shows a list of regions that have the new default_language
> > tag (you can multisort column with shift or control clicking the
> > headers). http://tinyurl.com/yd6bx6s3
>
> What about places like Morocco? Shouldn't it be rather similar to
> Belgium - "fr ber ar" (because the name is "Maroc ⵍⵎⵖⵔⵉⴱ المغرب") than
> just "ar"?
>
> --
> "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
>
>
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>>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help
Martin, in the "fr - nl" value, the "" separator is
what is being used in the name tag itself. I don't think it is very common
to have all three characters in the name, other than to split multiple
languages. In the few rare cases when it does happen, it would be enough to
also add "name:fr" and "name:nl" tags to fix the issue -- localization
would take the specific language, and won't even try to parse the name
tag. I think finding these cases should be relatively easy with OT.
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 1:01 AM Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> On 9. May 2018, at 02:37, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> or to two languages that match "Bruxelles - Brussel" ("fr - nl" ?).
>
>
>
> The hyphen/dash is not a good choice for separating multiple languages
> because it occasionally occurs in names, e.g.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrop-Rauxel
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dessau-Roßlau
> etc.
>
> Not sure about the slash (it sometimes occurs in German short names, e.g.
> Frankfurt/Main, Frankfurt/Oder), but it seems a tad better.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help
sent from a phone
> On 9. May 2018, at 02:37, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> or to two languages that match "Bruxelles - Brussel" ("fr - nl" ?).
The hyphen/dash is not a good choice for separating multiple languages because
it occasionally occurs in names, e.g.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrop-Rauxel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dessau-Roßlau
etc.
Not sure about the slash (it sometimes occurs in German short names, e.g.
Frankfurt/Main, Frankfurt/Oder), but it seems a tad better.
Cheers,
Martin___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Issues with diffs
Hi Thank you all for answers. Firstly I was sure that something broke my state.txt file, but I checked it and it was OK. Than I've tried some different one so I've copied from diffs folder - still no luck. I was sure something broke there - things like this happens sometimes, but as far as I remember they last no longer than 1 hour... You were right - it was https... one small letter for the config but such big difference for all server ;) Thanks again Andy Pozdrawiam Andrzej Kępys gg: 7918247 skype: jedrus305 tel: 605 997 440 W dniu 2018-05-09 o 20:50, Andy Townsend pisze: On 09/05/2018 19:21, Andrzej Kępys wrote: OsmosisRuntimeException: The replication state doesn't contain a timestamp property. Any idea where can I post/report this? Here (or the dev list) is as good a place as any :) What this normally means is that osmosis has somehow "become confused" - somehow some invalid replication data appeared, or you tried to reset the replication data and something failed, or you tried to reset the replication date for the first time since the http -> https move happened. Here's what's in /var/lib/mod_tile/.osmosis/state.txt on a server of mine right now: #Wed May 09 20:40:05 CEST 2018 sequenceNumber=2963281 timestamp=2018-05-09T18\:39\:01Z You should have something similar. If you have something other than a valid sequenceNumber / timestamp combination, try resetting the replication date to a known-good value. Typically I'd do that with "openstreetmap-tiles-update-expire". Note that when the OSM servers moved from http to https a change to that was needed to ensure that the files are obtained from https URLs (since osmosis didn't follow redirects). In the version that I use (and the version referred to by the switch2osm guide) that is: https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/mod_tile/blob/switch2osm/openstreetmap-tiles-update-expire#L114 Best Regards, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk --- Ta wiadomość została sprawdzona na obecność wirusów przez oprogramowanie antywirusowe Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Issues with diffs
On 09/05/2018 19:21, Andrzej Kępys wrote: OsmosisRuntimeException: The replication state doesn't contain a timestamp property. Any idea where can I post/report this? Here (or the dev list) is as good a place as any :) What this normally means is that osmosis has somehow "become confused" - somehow some invalid replication data appeared, or you tried to reset the replication data and something failed, or you tried to reset the replication date for the first time since the http -> https move happened. Here's what's in /var/lib/mod_tile/.osmosis/state.txt on a server of mine right now: #Wed May 09 20:40:05 CEST 2018 sequenceNumber=2963281 timestamp=2018-05-09T18\:39\:01Z You should have something similar. If you have something other than a valid sequenceNumber / timestamp combination, try resetting the replication date to a known-good value. Typically I'd do that with "openstreetmap-tiles-update-expire". Note that when the OSM servers moved from http to https a change to that was needed to ensure that the files are obtained from https URLs (since osmosis didn't follow redirects). In the version that I use (and the version referred to by the switch2osm guide) that is: https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/mod_tile/blob/switch2osm/openstreetmap-tiles-update-expire#L114 Best Regards, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Issues with diffs
Hi, On 05/09/2018 08:21 PM, Andrzej Kępys wrote: > Since about 12 hours I'm having issues with replication. > > Osmosis is reporting: > > OsmosisRuntimeException: The replication state doesn't contain a > timestamp property. > > Any idea where can I post/report this? I think your issue is likely that OSMF has switched to "https only" for planet.openstreetmap.org this morning. Requests to http URLs are answered with a redirect to the https URL. Osmosis doesn't honour these redirects. You need to change http to https in your configuration.txt. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Issues with diffs
> Since about 12 hours I'm having issues with replication. > > Osmosis is reporting: > > OsmosisRuntimeException: The replication state doesn't contain a > timestamp property. > > Any idea where can I post/report this? > Redirect to https was activated on planet.openstreetmap.org about 12 hours ago. Seems like your osmosis still points to the http location, and since it doesn't follow the redirect to https, it fails. See https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/200 for details. -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Issues with diffs
On 05/09/2018 08:21 PM, Andrzej Kępys wrote: > OsmosisRuntimeException: The replication state doesn't contain a > timestamp property. > Any idea where can I post/report this? You need to get a different planet with all data, see: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2018-May/030233.html Kind Regards, Bas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Issues with diffs
Hi. Since about 12 hours I'm having issues with replication. Osmosis is reporting: OsmosisRuntimeException: The replication state doesn't contain a timestamp property. Any idea where can I post/report this? -- Pozdrawiam Andrzej Kępys gg: 7918247 skype: jedrus305 tel: 605 997 440 --- Ta wiadomość została sprawdzona na obecność wirusów przez oprogramowanie antywirusowe Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM editor for cycling infrastructure on smartphone?
https://www.mapcontrib.xyz/ has a number of dedicated "apps". Search for bicycle on the home page. On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Volker Schmidt wrote: > Is there anywhere an app for editing specifically bicycle infrastructure > elements in OSM: bicycle paths, shared foot-bicycle paths, road crossings, > bollards and other assorted handicaps on cycle paths, cycle racks,... > > Volker > Padova, Italy > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM editor for cycling infrastructure on smartphone?
Hi, StreetCompleet, edits a lot of items, through simple questions, which among cycle paths and cycle racks. Cheers, Alert Op wo 9 mei 2018 13:14 schreef Volker Schmidt : > Is there anywhere an app for editing specifically bicycle infrastructure > elements in OSM: bicycle paths, shared foot-bicycle paths, road crossings, > bollards and other assorted handicaps on cycle paths, cycle racks,... > > Volker > Padova, Italy > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM editor for cycling infrastructure on smartphone?
Is there anywhere an app for editing specifically bicycle infrastructure elements in OSM: bicycle paths, shared foot-bicycle paths, road crossings, bollards and other assorted handicaps on cycle paths, cycle racks,... Volker Padova, Italy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
