Re: [Talk-transit] Revisiting the use of ref in bus stops

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 5:55 PM, Kevin Dalley  wrote:

> I am using GO-Sync, gtfs-osm-sync, to synchronize data for AC  Transit.
>
> For AC Transit, the gtfs_id, or stop_code, can be used to identify the
> stop. That's the number on the sign, and can be as a phone code.
>
> For example,
>
> stop code is 56669
>
> stop_name is: "MacArthur Blvd:Randolph Av"
>
> stop name does not appear on the sign, though variations of this name
> appear on the schedule, usually with a "&" rather than ":".
>
> stop_code does appear on sign.
>
> I agree with previous users that, at least for AC Transit, stop_code
> should translated to "ref", which a defined meaning for bus_stop.
> GO-Sync does not do this, though it would be easy to patch my version,
> at least for AC Transit.
>
> and use stop_name as name, which is what GO-Sync does.
>
> Are there recent thoughts on this issue?


 I'm thinking ref on the stop needs to be entirely revisited, given stops
may be used by more than one network and therefore have more than one ref.

Maybe something like, say, trimet:ref=* for TriMet's stops, and
tillamook-wave:ref=* for Tillamook County's The Wave, which share the same
stop bays at Sunset Transit Center and several locations in downtown
Portland, for example.
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposition for changing the common name tag

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

I'll refrain from whether adding (or not) "of America" to the end has anything 
to do with cabals or sovereignty.  I agree with Kevin (and others) that adding 
"it is never incorrect to add it" (can't hurt), usually helps and distinguishes 
Mexican states from the fifty north of the Rio Grande (in some places).  Yes, 
there are eighty to ninety admin_level=4 entities in North America when you add 
Canadian provinces and states in Mexico to the fifty in the USA.

I will say that in the USA there are fifty sovereign states AND a Union of 
these together as a "federal" sovereign state.  In short, "the federal entity" 
and "one of the fifty" are wholly different legal entities and "Union" is an 
approximate word.  Our courts agree.

That's OK:  most people know "there's federal law and there's state law" and 
yeah, that's right.

We do pretty well sorting these things out in OSM, with admin_level and so on.  
I don't think we need any major (or minor) changes to how we name countries or 
states, though sometimes the edges blur and we get better at defining things.  
There are some disputes, there are some boundary issues, we are people making a 
map, we both agree and disagree and we do the best we can.

SteveA
California

> On Aug 16, 2018, at 2:52 PM, talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> 
> Send Talk-us mailing list submissions to
>   talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> 
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> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-us digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: buggy buildings in Maryland (Elliott Plack)
>   2. Re: Proposition for changing the common name tag (Daniel Koć)
>   3. Re: Proposition for changing the common name tag (Daniel Koć)
>   4. Re: Proposition for changing the common name tag (Kevin Kenny)
> 
> From: Elliott Plack 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] buggy buildings in Maryland
> Date: August 16, 2018 at 11:08:00 AM PDT
> To: Frederik Ramm 
> Cc: "talk-us@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap" 
> 
> 
> Thanks for bringing this up, Frederik. I reached out to the user in a 
> changeset and a mail thread (links below) and was under the impression that 
> they would fix the problem. Was that really two years ago?
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41375854 - changeset
> https://gist.github.com/talllguy/7d813ece238f359317786a18f7b7bbcb - message 
> thread copy
> 
> I'd say go ahead and remove the extraneous nodes and also any buildings that 
> are either version 0 or do not have any new tags (like names or addresses). 
> The Microsoft buildings could replace any buildings that are only footprints. 
> If you can cull this down to those with some information besides the geometry 
> alone, the community can fill in the blanks.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 8:10 AM Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> over the last 2 years, DWG has had a three different complaints about a
> buggy building import that has been run on and off by the user
> "annapolissailor".
> 
> The import was problematic in many ways, most obviously because huge
> batches of un-used nodes were uploaded and later it was attempted to
> connect them, which sometimes failed, leaving lots of un-used nodes in
> the database; also, almost all buildings are over-noded, taking 10 or
> more nodes for a simple rectangular building (eg
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/435663194). Buildings that were in the
> area before have been deleted outright, and the data source and legal
> situation is unclear (many buildings are much too precise to have come
> from aerial imagery).
> 
> (Needless to say, had the import been discussed up front as is
> customary, all these issues could have been avoided.)
> 
> I have tried to work with the importer but they seem to be ultimately
> unable or unwilling to fix the problems even though they did seem to
> understand the issue at some point
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1587). They asked me a couple
> of times to "hold off reverting data until next steps are discussed on
> the imports list" but never followed up on the promise. They claimed to
> have spent hundreds of hours on the JOSM validator improving problems
> they had introduced.
> 
> I am at the moment deleting about 70,000 untagged and un-used nodes that
> have been left over from this import, which is the uncontroversial part.
> 
> The total amount of buildings created and still visible is 177,151, with
> a total of 1,980,336 nodes, in the general area "East of Washington DC,
> South of Baltimore, North of Chesapeake Beach".
> 
> I think these buildings need to be deleted too, given their technical
> (over-noding) and legal (we don't know where the data came from and what
> 

Re: [Talk-br] Doações para a futura associação, favor declarar

[Sérgio V .]

Acho bom tocar nesta questão, Peter.

Esta questão do domínio atualmente registrado como 
"http://www.openstreetmap.com.br; me parece precisaria ser regularizada.
Chegamos brevemente a abordar o assunto no telegram-associação 
(https://t.me/AssociacaoOsmBrasil).
O fato de necessitar regularizar a situação do domínio e o fato de haver uma 
associação OSM-BR ou não, são duas questões independentes.

O nome "openstreetmap" é uma marca registrada. Há normas para usar esta marca:

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy#4._Special_uses_that_require_permission
4.1. Domain names:
"You need a trademark licence to register or use a domain name that contains an 
OSM mark."

O uso do nome da marca é condicionado a aprovação da OSMF 
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org).

(É semelhante ao caso de se alguém resolvesse registrar um domínio chamado 
"NIKE_do_Brasil. com . br", porque somos simpatizantes da NIKE)

Não vi esta questão de criar este domínio tratada na comunidade OSM brasileira. 
Talvez não estivesse presente na época.
Atualmente o domínio está sob propriedade de "Telenav do Brasil Serv de Loc 
Ltda", com contato em nome do Thierry Jean
(https://registro.br/2/whois#lresp : openstreetmap.com.br).

Por melhor que possa ter sido a intenção de registrar estes domínio, não me 
parece nada adequado que permaneça em nome de empresa particular.
O nome "OSM...BR" deveria ficar sob uma entidade jurídica que represente a 
comunidade openstreetmap local.
A maior expressão do que seria uma tal entidade jurídica, seria um capítulo 
local.
E que também deve ser uma entidade "não lucrativa".
(Rules for local chapters:be non-profit. - 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters).
Não temos uma tal entidade, ou um capítulo.

Mas ainda assim, como uma empresa particular, por mais bem intencionada que 
seja, que "não é" uma entidade "não lucrativa", permanecerá de representante da 
comunidade OSM no Brasil em domínio de internet?
Só ela pode mexer, decidir o que vai publicado, etc, em tal página de internet.

Em último caso, em não havendo possibilidade de transferir o domínio para 
alguma entidade representativa do OSM no Brasil,
imaginaria como aceitável até que o registro fosse passado para propriedade da 
OSMFoundation,
que em última análise é a única legítima detentora irrevogável do direito de 
ser representante do nome OSM
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation).



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs



De: Peter Krauss 
Enviado: sexta-feira, 10 de agosto de 2018 15:39
Para: OpenStreetMap no Brasil
Assunto: [Talk-br] Doações para a futura associação, favor declarar

Prezados colaboradores e colaboradoras empenhados na  futura Associação OSM 
Brasil,


Abrindo tópico aqui no Talk-BR para deixarmos registrado qualquer tipo de 
patrimônio ou hora-trabalho a ser contabilizado como doação para a Associação.

O dia que ela passar a existir (registro de ata de fundação no cartório) e/ou o 
dia que ela estiver operando com um CNPJ.

O mais importante por hora, antes da fundação, é registrar aqui publicamente o 
compromisso de transferência de direitos de propriedade...
Por exemplo o domínio OPENSTREETMAP.COM.BR ,
já que a ata de fundação ou mesmo o anexo do Estatuto precisarão citar esse 
tipo de patrimônio inicial.


Peter
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Re: [Talk-us] buggy buildings in Maryland

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 08/16/2018 08:08 PM, Elliott Plack wrote:
> I'd say go ahead and remove the extraneous nodes 

This has now been done.

> and also any buildings
> that are either version 0 or do not have any new tags (like names or
> addresses)

It appears that of the 177,151 buildings still there, only 29,513 have
tags other than building=*. In most cases, these other tags are
addr:street and addr:housenumber.

I'll let this rest for a bit to give others a chance to chime in.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[Talk-transit] Revisiting the use of ref in bus stops

[Kevin Dalley]

I am using GO-Sync, gtfs-osm-sync, to synchronize data for AC  Transit.

For AC Transit, the gtfs_id, or stop_code, can be used to identify the
stop. That's the number on the sign, and can be as a phone code.

For example,

stop code is 56669

stop_name is: "MacArthur Blvd:Randolph Av"

stop name does not appear on the sign, though variations of this name
appear on the schedule, usually with a "&" rather than ":".

stop_code does appear on sign.

I agree with previous users that, at least for AC Transit, stop_code
should translated to "ref", which a defined meaning for bus_stop.
GO-Sync does not do this, though it would be easy to patch my version,
at least for AC Transit.

and use stop_name as name, which is what GO-Sync does.

Are there recent thoughts on this issue?



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[Talk-us] place=locality on rail junction

[Kevin Kenny]

I notice around me that the map appears cluttered by a number of
'place=locality' points with alphanumeric names like 'CPF 499' which
appear to be the reference numbers of rail junctions.

Tellingly, the objects all seem to have been added by user 'NE2', who
was well known a few years ago for having eccentric ideas about how
things go on the map.

When I come upon these, what's The Right Thing?  'railway=junction
ref="CPF 499"' instead?
I'm ignorant of rail mapping, since I live in Russ Nelson country and
he's left me little to do in that domain.

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[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2018-08-15

[Dave Hansen]

These are based off of Lambertus's work here:

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl

If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.

Downloads:

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-08-15

Map to visualize what each file contains:


http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-08-15/kml/kml.html


FAQ



Why did you do this?

I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
on removable media.  

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2018-08-15

Can or should I seed the torrents?

Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
side of the Atlantic.

Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?

There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
want to update if you had issues with the last set.

Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?

If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
file.

Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?

Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
non-US area to get included, let me know. 

-- Dave


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] projet du mois : limite de vitesse 80/90 ?

[osm . sanspourriel]

Le 16/08/2018 à 00:49, laurent-38 - laurent.riffard+nab...@free.fr a écrit :

Jérôme Seigneuret-3 wrote

Bonjour,
Sauf que pour les 80 ou 90 ou 110 en soit il n'y a pas l'obligation
d'avoir
un panneau.

Le code de la route dit
130 km/h sur les autoroutes ;
110 km/h sur les routes à deux chaussées séparées par un terre-plein
central ;
90 km/h sur les autres routes.
et maintenant on décompose le 90

90 sur les routes à double sens de circulation opposé avec un terre-plein
central
80 sur les routes n'ayant pas de séparateur et à double sens de
circulation,
90 pour les doubles voies dans le même sens de circulation sans séparateur

Bonjour,
Je vous invite à lire les articles modifiés du code de la route :
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA06177128=LEGITEXT06074228

Contrairement à ce qu'annonce le décret dans sa notice, et divers sites du
gouvernement, le séparateur central n'entre pas en ligne de compte pour
distinguer entre 80 et 90. Seul compte le nombre voies dans le même sens. 1
voie=80 km/h, 2 voies dans le même sens=90 km/h pour le sens concerné (sauf
limitation plus restrictive dument signalée)
~~
laurent-38
Oui on connaît ces textes. Le décret 
 
parle de "routes bidirectionnelles à chaussée unique sans séparateur 
central", et veut donc sans doute exclure des 3 voies celles comportant 
deux traits discontinus (les routes où on peut jouer le jeu du poulet).


Tu oublies de citer la partie qui m'ennuie "Ces sections font l'objet 
d'une signalisation routière dans les conditions prévues par l'article 
R. 411-25."
In extenso : "3° 80 km/ h sur les autres routes. Toutefois, sur les 
sections de ces routes comportant au moins deux voies affectées à un 
même sens de circulation, la vitesse maximale est relevée à 90 km/ h sur 
ces seules voies. Ces sections font l'objet d'une signalisation routière 
dans les conditions prévues par l'article R. 411-25."
Certains comme toi pense que le "/la vitesse maximale est relevée à 90 
km/ h/" fait que c'est automatique.
D'autres comme moi pensent que "/_Ces sections font l'objet d'une 
signalisation routière_ dans les conditions prévues par l'article R. 
411-25/" et "/III. - Les autorités détentrices du pouvoir de police de 
la circulation compétentes communiquent (...) la liste des sections de 
routes relevant de leur compétence qui comportent au moins deux voies 
affectées à un même sens de circulation et sur lesquelles la vitesse 
maximale est relevée à 90 km/ h en application du 3° du I./" font que ce 
n'est pas automatique mais que l'autorité doit mettre en place une 
signalisation explicite. Et donc 90 _ou 80_ (car partout on peut mettre 
une vitesse inférieure au maximum théorique).

Pourquoi demander les tronçons en question si c'est automatiquement 90 ?

De plus on a vu que certaines autorités passent aussi les zones 
potentiellement à 90 à 80 (et des sections de 110 à 90), donc autant pas 
de soucis pour passer les cas non ambigus à 80, autant pour les autres 
il faut vérifier que les panneaux 90 ont été posés (ou qu'un passage à 
80 soit irréaliste style 4 voies type voie expresse mais déjà limitée à 
90 par le passé). Localement j'ai vu des 90 ajoutés mais d'autres ont vu 
des 80 ajoutés. Donc une modification à distance de ces cas semble délicat.


Question indépendante : les accidents sont géolocalisés. On devrait donc 
avoir le nombre d'accidents et le trafic (?) sur les zones qui sont 
passées de 90 à 80 et pour le reste du réseau et comparer les évolutions 
mensuelles des accidents suivant les catégories. Pourtant on n'entend 
parler que l'évolution globale. Savez-vous si ces informations sont 
calculées ? Disponibles ? Ça me semble nécessaire pour évaluer l'effet 
de la mesure.


Jean-Yvon (trial)
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Re: [Talk-GB] 'C' class roads references.

[Rob Nickerson]

>On what basis is 'highway_authority_ref' being put forward since I don't
think the councils who allocate the references for C and U roads are
actually the 'highway_authority'

Hi Lester,

I expect the basis is the Highways Act 1980 which defines them as "Local
Highways Authorities". I'm not sure if these align with Local Authorities.
It looks like they do outside of London, but I get confused by how London
is run. In summary:

- Outside Greater London it is the "council of the County"
- The Greater London Council for all metropolitan roads
- The council of a London Borough, or a Common Council for all councils in
the borough or the City which are not metropolitan roads

And apparently metropolitan roads are all those that existed, or where in
planning, and were captured by the definition in the Transport (London) Act
1969.

Oh and, they are the authority of all highways whether or not they are
maintained at public expense!

So I assume that this made GLC the authority of all highways previously
defined (maybe just those maintained at public expense) and the London
Borough for all new ones (although I guess they passed control to GLC) and
any that GLC hadn't picked up (maybe the ones not maintained by public
expense).

But to summarise: Highways Authority is not a term reserved for the
national Highway Authorities. Local ones can use this term too.

*Rob*
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Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas

[Warin]

If the thought is to map a group of blocks as an area .. then my vote is 
no at least without more information.
It raises the question as to what the level of obstruction is - are 
motorcycles bared by this barrier? Horses? How badly are pedestrians 
impeded? What about people in wheelchairs?

So there needs to be a scale of impediment.

On 17/08/18 02:57, Tomasz Wójcik wrote:
An use case for allow mapping barrier=block as asreas is a better 
visualisation of a landcoverage. Mapping aeral objects as a nodes 
makes the map a little bit lied.


-- Wiadomość oryginalna --
Od: "Philip Barnes" mailto:p...@trigpoint.me.uk>>
Do: talk@openstreetmap.org ; "David 
Fox" >; "Tomasz Wójcik" >

Data: 16.08.2018 10:05:11
Temat: Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas


Hedges can certainly be areas, some can be a few metres thick.

A common mapping scenario is a thick hedge and a stile at each side. 
The only way to represent this is to map as an area and map the 
stiles as nodes connected to the outline.


Phil (trigpoint)

On 16 August 2018 01:14:49 BST, David Fox 
mailto:davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>> 
wrote:


Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction.
Without attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers
to account for them.
Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area.



On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik mailto:tom...@wp.pl>> wrote:


Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area.
As blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it
should be allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge.
Anyway, currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock

Block examples:

http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif
http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg

Barriers with mapping as area allowed
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.



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Re: [Talk-us] Proposition for changing the common name tag

[Kevin Kenny]

The Articles of Confederation included the text, "The Stile of this
Confederation shall be the 'United States of America'"

The Constitution omits any declaration of the correct name and style,
and in fact uses both styles, even in the Preamble. as Daniel Koć
observes.

There are conspiracy theorists who assert that the two are different
entities - they spout bizarre nonsense like
http://supremelaw.org/letters/us-v-usa.htm and http://usavsus.info/ .
(Ordinarily, these are the 'sovereign citizens' who believe that they
can get out of paying their taxes if they come up with the correct
magic words to invalidate the whole body of Federal law. They do not
enjoy very much success in court, but that doesn't keep them from
putting reams of material up on the Web.) Their usual contention is
that the 'United States' is some sort of cabal or corporation that
established the Constitution for the separate entity of the 'United
States of America.'

In practice, it's simply brief writing. The phrase, 'of America,' is
omitted when it is clear from the context, but it is never incorrect
to add it.

More complex is whether the term is singular or plural. It was
reasonably consistent in the early days of the republic that one would
write, 'the United States ARE'. After the time of Reconstruction,
there was a much stronger identity as a nation, and it became
conventional to write, 'the United States IS.' There is a difference
there: the first refers to a collection of separate States, while the
second refers to a singular unified nation. Those who draft the laws
have followed the common speech, giving the conspiracy theorists more
ammunition in the claim that the 'United States' and 'the United
States of America' are separate entities.

Let's try not to throw any more fuel on that particular fire.
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 2:33 PM Daniel Koć  wrote:
>
> W dniu 16.08.2018 o 19:43, Volker Schmidt pisze:
>
> Looks somewhat strange to me in view of the preamble of the US Constitution:
> " We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, 
> establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common 
> defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to 
> ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for 
> the United States of America. "
>
>
> Could you tell in your words what is strange for you, so we could discuss 
> things in more specific way?
>
> --
> "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Uso di OSM in Facebook

[Stefano]

Il giorno gio 16 ago 2018 alle ore 20:58 Federico Leva (Nemo) <
nemow...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

>
> Non so per OSM, ma per Wikipedia e Wikidata è stato problematico non
> avere alcuna visibilità su quanto e dove (in che lingue e paesi) Google
> estendesse Knowledge Graph, perché era impossibile verificare qualsiasi
> correlazione con altre tendenze nei progetti.
>

Come si comporta facebook con le segnalazioni di errori in Wikidata/pedia?
(le pagine automatiche sono generate da quei dati, me ne sono accorto dopo
una segnalazione via la pagina fb di osm)


>
> Federico
>
> Ciao,
Stefano


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Re: [Talk-it] Uso di OSM in Facebook

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 16. Aug 2018, at 21:48, Maurizio Napolitano  wrote:
> 
> È stata sollevata la critica che l'attribuzione non è ben fatta.
> Dal mio punto di vista, invece, così va bene.
> Attendo però qualche critica qui.


la prima mappa (piccola) che si vede (al meno su mobile) non contiene nessuna 
attribuzione. Quando si passa alla mappa grande c’è solo la “i” e al suo tempo 
questo tipo di attribuzione è stato discusso tanto (non nel contesto di 
facebook ma nel contesto di Mapbox) e bocciato “dalla community”. 
Con Google non lo potresti fare, perché loro sanno che l’attribuzione va messo 
sulla mappa oppure non la vede praticamente nessuno. Google è lo standard 
industriale delle mappe online. Per Google importa relativamente poco essere 
attribuiti (sta nel loro interesse principale di collezionare i tuoi dati, 
sapere cosa guardi e cerchi e quando, etc.), per noi è importantissimo.

Ciao,
Martin
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[OSM-talk-fr] State of The Map 2018 - Milan

[althio]

Bonsoir,

Suite à la conférence internationale SotM 2018, je vous invite à lire
cet article détaillé, écrit par Paul Desgranges et complété
collaborativement par d'autres membres de la communauté française et
de l'association OpenStreetMap France.

http://next.openstreetmap.fr/state-of-the-map-2018-a-milan/

Bonne lecture.
Si vous cherchez d'autres lectures dans d'autres langues, surveillez ici :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/diary
et là :
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/10586

-- althio -- Benoît

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[OSM-talk] Arkhivna Street

[Andy Mabbett]

"This street has over a half-dozen names, all at once."

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/arkhivna-street

Mapped here, but without all those names:

   https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/234767127

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-it] Uso di OSM in Facebook

[Maurizio Napolitano]

Ciao
La questione facebook e openstreetmap  come tu stesso hai
sottolineato, non è una novità.
Una uscita pubblica (2016) che spesso riporto nelle mie slide è questa
"Through collaboration with the OpenStreetMap community, we believe we
can enable greater transparency, deliver the best local experiences,
and facilitate innovation at scale."
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=55220

La prima presentazione pubblica è stata fatta poi a SotM in Giappone.
Cosa fa Facebook è per spiegato in questa pagina wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AI-Assisted_Road_Tracing

Sintetizzando:
- acquisizione di immagini satellitari da DigitalGlobe
- uso di deep learning nel riconoscimento automatico di strade, edifici, fiumi
- pulizia "logica" del dato acquisito (mi sembra attraverso il tool
"atlas' creato da Apple apposta sui dati di OSM)
- importazione manuale (e relativa verifica) da parte di un gruppo di
persone che lavorano in facebook
- assegnazione dei nomi delle strade (ed altro) tramite richiesta agli
utenti Facebook (es. "Come si chiama questa via dove ti trovi?")

Il coordinamento avviene tramite una installazione del task manager di HOT.
La zona dove hanno lavorato di più è la thailandia per mancanza di
data provider (fra governo e privati).
La scelta è quella di avere un redering personalizzato in modo anche
da stabilire cosa deve apparire sulle loro mappe.

Veniamo ora alla tua richiesta:
apri facebook e scegli una qualsiasi che contenga una mappa.
Solitamente basta cercare le pagine di organizzazioni o attività commerciali.
Es.
https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.Italia/
Sulla destra della pagina trovi una mappa
Al clic questa si prende il centro della pagina e, nell'angolo a
destra dell'immagine trovi una "i" maiuscola da cui si apre
un menu con due voci.
Premi su "note legali" e ti si apre questa pagina
https://www.facebook.com/maps/attribution_terms

dove trovi scritto

Note legali sui dati della mappa
HERE© 2018 HERE
Mapbox© 2018 Mapbox
https://www.mapbox.com/about/maps/
OpenStreetMap© OpenStreetMap contributors
https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright/

Pertanto la mappa è un mashup di fonti dati diverse.
È stata sollevata la critica che l'attribuzione non è ben fatta.
Dal mio punto di vista, invece, così va bene.
Attendo però qualche critica qui.

In queste slide, alla numero 9, trovi una gif animata che mostra tutti
i passaggi
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vQEADohftiiRYqExMxVVv2LwUF6jXVyPUzc24vuKadd6N9PhT9uxum94FegpSJRELDMDoKV2ME11TJK/pub?start=false=false=3000#slide=id.g3a2b6954a7_0_186

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Instabilité des connexions à OSM.org

[Philippe Verdy]

J'ai même des erreurs de versions SSL. On dirait que certains serveurs ont
du mal avec certains certificats de sécurité, ou les parefeux d'OSM.org
sont un peu susceptibles et finissent à la suite de ces erreurs par fermer
des sessions agressivement. Je pense qu'il y a des imports massifs vers la
base en ce moment, ou encore une base de données qui part dans les choux et
doit être rechargée et on manque alors de capacité.

Le jeu. 16 août 2018 à 20:56, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :

> Depuis quelques temps les connexions au site OSM.org sont très erratiques,
> les envois à la base de données comme au serveur carto et serveur de tuiles
> cessent de répondre (pas d'acquitement, perte de session...), les
> connexions HTTPS échouent aléatoirement (erreurs de connexion, échec de
> permission, voire connexion refusés mais accepté 1 minute après).
>
> Difficile de contribuer: il faut faire des changesets bien plus petits
> pour pouvoir nettoyer facilement les doublons laissés par des envois
> partiels sans réponse.
>
> Il y a de nombreuses anomalies aussi dans le gestionnaire de conflits
> d'édition (lui aussi est extrêmement lent ou répond n'importe quoi, y
> compris des conflits avec soi-même, car le serveur ne ferme pas bien les
> changesets précédents, et la base se désynchronise et ne reflète pas les
> modifs).
>
> Bref après chaque modif il faut revérifier (en repassant en modif pour
> charger la zone à nouveau et voir ce qu'il en est) et nettoyer derrière
> (ways manquants, noeuds laissés en doublon, ou orphelins...). C'est assez
> pénible.
>
> Je pense que cela doit se voir dans les anomalies de geométrie ou noeuds
> orphelins détectés par Osmose avec un pic en terme de croissance.
>
> De plus les rendus sont de plus en plus lents à se synchroniser, il y a
> des zones entières jamais rafraîchies (même en attendant plus d'1 semaine),
> alors qu'il y a maintenant 5 serveur de rendu au lieu de 4.
>
> Tout cela ressemble à un problème de bande passante entrer les serveurs
> critiques OSM.org qui sont rtépartis de part et d'autre de la Manche. Mais
> il peut s'agir de changement de peerings depuis la France..
>
> Voyez-vous les mêmes difficultés ? (Note mon accès internet est la fibre
> de Free, je n'ai pas de problème de performance ou de perte de trame sur
> mes tests, sauf avec le services d'OSM.org)
>
>
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[Talk-it] Uso di OSM in Facebook

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Quanto c'è di nuovo in questo?
https://blog.mapbox.com/facebook-uses-mapbox-maps-11364481516e

(Nelle immagini non vedo quanto sia accessibile l'attribuzione a OSM. È 
OSM, no? In teoria potrebbero essere mappe/dati di altri.)


Ho visto un po' di notizie da SotM sul contributo di Facebook a OSM ma 
non ho capito quanti utenti di Facebook siano effettivamente "esposti" 
alle mappe OSM e se abbiamo visibilità sulle tendenze.

https://twitter.com/juliansimioni/status/1023931142918029312
https://twitter.com/gregorymarler/status/1023924837713174528
https://theodi.org/article/state-of-the-map-2018-what-we-learned-about-open-geospatial-data
https://theodi.org/article/how-are-facebook-apple-and-microsoft-contributing-to-openstreetmap/

Mi pare di capire che ne stiano gradualmente estendendo l'uso dal 2015.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2015-July/073516.html

Non so per OSM, ma per Wikipedia e Wikidata è stato problematico non 
avere alcuna visibilità su quanto e dove (in che lingue e paesi) Google 
estendesse Knowledge Graph, perché era impossibile verificare qualsiasi 
correlazione con altre tendenze nei progetti.


Federico

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[OSM-talk-fr] Instabilité des connexions à OSM.org

[Philippe Verdy]

Depuis quelques temps les connexions au site OSM.org sont très erratiques,
les envois à la base de données comme au serveur carto et serveur de tuiles
cessent de répondre (pas d'acquitement, perte de session...), les
connexions HTTPS échouent aléatoirement (erreurs de connexion, échec de
permission, voire connexion refusés mais accepté 1 minute après).

Difficile de contribuer: il faut faire des changesets bien plus petits pour
pouvoir nettoyer facilement les doublons laissés par des envois partiels
sans réponse.

Il y a de nombreuses anomalies aussi dans le gestionnaire de conflits
d'édition (lui aussi est extrêmement lent ou répond n'importe quoi, y
compris des conflits avec soi-même, car le serveur ne ferme pas bien les
changesets précédents, et la base se désynchronise et ne reflète pas les
modifs).

Bref après chaque modif il faut revérifier (en repassant en modif pour
charger la zone à nouveau et voir ce qu'il en est) et nettoyer derrière
(ways manquants, noeuds laissés en doublon, ou orphelins...). C'est assez
pénible.

Je pense que cela doit se voir dans les anomalies de geométrie ou noeuds
orphelins détectés par Osmose avec un pic en terme de croissance.

De plus les rendus sont de plus en plus lents à se synchroniser, il y a des
zones entières jamais rafraîchies (même en attendant plus d'1 semaine),
alors qu'il y a maintenant 5 serveur de rendu au lieu de 4.

Tout cela ressemble à un problème de bande passante entrer les serveurs
critiques OSM.org qui sont rtépartis de part et d'autre de la Manche. Mais
il peut s'agir de changement de peerings depuis la France..

Voyez-vous les mêmes difficultés ? (Note mon accès internet est la fibre de
Free, je n'ai pas de problème de performance ou de perte de trame sur mes
tests, sauf avec le services d'OSM.org)
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposition for changing the common name tag

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 16.08.2018 o 19:33, Jack Burke pisze:
> Yes, when people say "United States" they typically mean America and
> not Mexico, but the USA is just as often referred to as "America" as
> it is "United States," which is another reason not to proceed with the
> change.

Hi, Jack!

I think that key word here is "common" - for me "typically mean America
and not Mexico" is a clear example of common use.

English is a foreign language for me, but I have also never heard about
"United States" in the meaning Mexico ("United Mexican States"), which
makes this case stronger for me.

-- 
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]



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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Shropshire Wildlife Trust

[Brian Prangle]

Hi Phil

You might have noticed some editing from me in Shrewsbury-  that arises
from a very productive meeting I had with Robin Mager of the SWT.  The
upshot is that he will investigate giving us access under an open licence
of the drone imagery they're assembling of their reserves. He's also keen
to get some more nature reserve detail into OSM and he'll look at piloting
a mapping event in a reserve that has an active friends group and more
generally perhaps encouraging people to map their local reserve even if
it's only by adding notes or mapillary images. I'll keep you posted, but
don't expect anything in a hurry- summer holidays stand in the way

Regards

Brian
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposition for changing the common name tag

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 16.08.2018 o 19:43, Volker Schmidt pisze:

> Looks somewhat strange to me in view of the preamble of the US
> Constitution:
> " We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect
> Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the
> common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings
> of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish
> this Constitution for the United States of America. "

Could you tell in your words what is strange for you, so we could
discuss things in more specific way?

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume - The New York Times

[Yves]

Time to choose a name of your choice for your own neighborhood in OSM, after 
all we are or close to be  the next authoritative source :) 
Yves 

Le 16 août 2018 16:40:06 GMT+02:00, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 a écrit :
>
>
>sent from a phone
>
>> On 16. Aug 2018, at 16:25, Maarten Deen  wrote:
>> 
>> This has been pointed out to Google many, many times (through their
>inadequate feedback tool and via Google employees) and has long been
>ignored. It has now been corrected
>
>
>don’t help them. The worse their errors are, the better for OSM. Let’s
>point people to OSM rather than help the Goog fix their data.
>
>Cheers,
>Martin 
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Re: [Talk-us] buggy buildings in Maryland

[Elliott Plack]

Thanks for bringing this up, Frederik. I reached out to the user in a
changeset and a mail thread (links below) and was under the impression that
they would fix the problem. Was that really two years ago?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41375854 - changeset
https://gist.github.com/talllguy/7d813ece238f359317786a18f7b7bbcb - message
thread copy

I'd say go ahead and remove the extraneous nodes and also any buildings
that are either version 0 or do not have any new tags (like names or
addresses). The Microsoft buildings could replace any buildings that are
only footprints. If you can cull this down to those with some information
besides the geometry alone, the community can fill in the blanks.


On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 8:10 AM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> over the last 2 years, DWG has had a three different complaints about a
> buggy building import that has been run on and off by the user
> "annapolissailor".
>
> The import was problematic in many ways, most obviously because huge
> batches of un-used nodes were uploaded and later it was attempted to
> connect them, which sometimes failed, leaving lots of un-used nodes in
> the database; also, almost all buildings are over-noded, taking 10 or
> more nodes for a simple rectangular building (eg
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/435663194). Buildings that were in the
> area before have been deleted outright, and the data source and legal
> situation is unclear (many buildings are much too precise to have come
> from aerial imagery).
>
> (Needless to say, had the import been discussed up front as is
> customary, all these issues could have been avoided.)
>
> I have tried to work with the importer but they seem to be ultimately
> unable or unwilling to fix the problems even though they did seem to
> understand the issue at some point
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1587). They asked me a couple
> of times to "hold off reverting data until next steps are discussed on
> the imports list" but never followed up on the promise. They claimed to
> have spent hundreds of hours on the JOSM validator improving problems
> they had introduced.
>
> I am at the moment deleting about 70,000 untagged and un-used nodes that
> have been left over from this import, which is the uncontroversial part.
>
> The total amount of buildings created and still visible is 177,151, with
> a total of 1,980,336 nodes, in the general area "East of Washington DC,
> South of Baltimore, North of Chesapeake Beach".
>
> I think these buildings need to be deleted too, given their technical
> (over-noding) and legal (we don't know where the data came from and what
> license it is under) issues.
>
> However, given how much work the mapper claims to have invested in this,
> I wonder if there's maybe a way to salvage the data. That would first
> require us to clear up the legal situation, and if it turns out the
> source is legal, then we'd have to go about killing the extra nodes in
> buildings.
>
> I'm basically looking for volunteers here. Other mappers have tried to
> discuss the issue with the mapper himself and never got far either, but
> of course if someone wanted to try and enlist annapolissailor's support,
> fair enough (perhaps agree here on the list who's doing it though, so
> that we don't have 10 people spamming him...)
>
> I have prepared a file that contains all the buildings in question:
>
> http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/annapolis.osm.gz
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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>
-- 
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http://elliottplack.me
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Re: [Talk-it] marciapiede o non-marciapiede?

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 16/08/2018 19:49, Volker Schmidt ha scritto:

[0] è un frequente problema con i sensori dei smartphone montati su bici
senza ammortizzatore.
I valori nel campo EXIF del file JPEG indicano - falsamente - che lo
smartphone era rovesciato.
Tengo una lista delle foto problemtiche e, periodicamente, la mando a
Mapillary, e loro fnno la correzione.

2018-08-16 19:42 GMT+02:00 liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu <
liste.gira...@posteo.eu>:


Quà [0] ti sei ribaltato o cosa?

[0] https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo=rss71KplJVBb
K8hEzeY0WA=45.411409877480914=11.871589985496183=17=false




No, scusa, sai, alla tua età ribaltarti non è la cosa migliore.. ^_^


--
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|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
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Re: [Talk-us] [Talk-us-nps] [EXTERNAL] North Carolina National Park

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

domain. US Federal government datasets are mandated to be in the 
> public domain, so there are no issues using them for OpenStreetMap.
> 
> Since this National Forest and Wildlife area are not units of the National 
> Park System, you will not find them in the irma.nps.gov<http://irma.nps.gov> 
> dataset. It looks like your best source of data for this will be the PDF that 
> you linked: 
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5403940.pdf -- 
> Although it doesn't appear that the PDF is geo-enabled.
> 
> I was able to find the boundary in the dataset named "Administrative Forest 
> Boundaries": 
> https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=boundaries
> That may be another good source.
> 
> I would also suggest overlaying the boundaries and making tweaks to the 
> existing OSM boundary instead of importing the new boundary and deleting the 
> old. That would allow existing points in the database to maintain their 
> history.
> 
> I'm hoping someone from the general talk-us group can provide more input on 
> this. Best of luck!
> 
> --
> Jim McAndrew
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 9:39 AM Nicolas Duclos 
> mailto:dunic...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I’m new in OSM Community and after a short trip on East Coast of North 
> Carolina, I decided to help making NC more accurate than it is right now.
> 
> I’m currently trying to edit or remake the Croatan National Forest, but I’m 
> not too sure how to achieve it by importing data. Currently for some reasons 
> there is two Croatan National Forest at the same place and the shape is not 
> really accurate compared to other maps out there.
> 
> Here is what I found :
> 
> http://data.nconemap.gov/geoportal/dataexplorer/index.jsp
> 
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5403940.pdf
> 
> Not too sure about the proclamation area on the map and what’s the difference 
> between national forest and wilderness.
> 
> I could also create trails and outdoor activities spot in OSM.
> 
> Data :
> 
> http://data.nconemap.gov/geoportal/catalog/main/home.page (type marea in 
> search box)
> or
> https://irma.nps.gov/DataStore/Reference/Profile/2224545?lnv=True
> 
> Not too sure which data to take or how they works.
> 
> Thank you very much for your help.
> 
> Nic from Canada 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for 
> the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the 
> use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and 
> subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have 
> received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email 
> immediately.
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> 
> --
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
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> End of Talk-us-nps Digest, Vol 13, Issue 5
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Re: [Talk-it] marciapiede o non-marciapiede?

[Volker Schmidt]

[0] è un frequente problema con i sensori dei smartphone montati su bici
senza ammortizzatore.
I valori nel campo EXIF del file JPEG indicano - falsamente - che lo
smartphone era rovesciato.
Tengo una lista delle foto problemtiche e, periodicamente, la mando a
Mapillary, e loro fnno la correzione.

2018-08-16 19:42 GMT+02:00 liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu <
liste.gira...@posteo.eu>:

> Quà [0] ti sei ribaltato o cosa?
>
> [0] https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo=rss71KplJVBb
> K8hEzeY0WA=45.411409877480914=11.871589985496183=17=false
>
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[Talk-us] Proposition for changing the common name tag

[Volker Schmidt]

>
> I wanted to let you know about proposed change in tagging the name of
> USA and I seek for the feedback about it - see the proposition here:
>
> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=63384
>  openstreetmap.org%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fid%3D63384=3>
>
> Looks somewhat strange to me in view of the preamble of the US
Constitution:
" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect
Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the
common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of
Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this
Constitution for the United States of America. "
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Re: [Talk-it] marciapiede o non-marciapiede?

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 16/08/2018 19:31, Volker Schmidt ha scritto:

(Sicuramente l'ennesima volta che qualcuno pone questa domanda)

Questa strada [1]
- sul ponte, ha due marcipiedi (definiti dalle con lastre di pietra) o no?
(sidewalk=both o sidewalk=no)
- nel primo piano, ha due marciapiedi (uno delimitato da una striscia
bianca e l'altro definito dalle lastre di pietra?

Volker

[1] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/gmRBWv33uSGn8HyKVJNqcA




Quà [0] ti sei ribaltato o cosa?

Stando a questa foto qui [1], direi marciapiede.




[0] 
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo=rss71KplJVBbK8hEzeY0WA=45.411409877480914=11.871589985496183=17=false



[1] 
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo=qowXc3QkFI8q4EpgQBSrrQ=45.411348841335915=11.871603630977734=17=false


--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas

[Tobias Knerr]

On 15.08.2018 20:49, Tomasz Wójcik wrote:
> Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As
> blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be
> allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge.

For routing purposes, barriers are usually connected to the highway=*
way somehow. When barriers are mapped as nodes, this is achieved by
tagging one of the way's nodes with the barrier tags.

How would we do this for barrier=block mapped as areas?

Note that the block(s) will not always be exactly on the centerline of
the highway, so we may not be able to even share a node between the area
outline and the highway way if we want to accurately represent the area
covered by the block. Due to this, I see no easy solution to map blocks
as areas while still making them topologically part of the routing network.

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Re: [Talk-us] Proposition for changing the common name tag

[Jack Burke]

I am opposed to this suggestion, because there are two countries called "United 
States" in North America: the United States of America, and the United States 
of Mexico.

Yes, when people say "United States" they typically mean America and not 
Mexico, but the USA is just as often referred to as "America" as it is "United 
States," which is another reason not to proceed with the change. 

-jack

-- 
Typos courtesy of fancy auto spell technology

On August 16, 2018 12:51:27 PM EDT, "Daniel Koć"  wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I wanted to let you know about proposed change in tagging the name of
>USA and I seek for the feedback about it - see the proposition here:
>
>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=63384
>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
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[Talk-it] marciapiede o non-marciapiede?

[Volker Schmidt]

(Sicuramente l'ennesima volta che qualcuno pone questa domanda)

Questa strada [1]
- sul ponte, ha due marcipiedi (definiti dalle con lastre di pietra) o no?
(sidewalk=both o sidewalk=no)
- nel primo piano, ha due marciapiedi (uno delimitato da una striscia
bianca e l'altro definito dalle lastre di pietra?

Volker

[1] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/gmRBWv33uSGn8HyKVJNqcA
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[OSM-talk] State of the Map US Early Bird tickets end tomorrow!

[Bryan Housel]

A few quick reminders about... 
State of the Map US    Detroit, MI · October 5-7th  


  The reduced-price tickets will be available until midnight tomorrow on 
Friday, August 17th.
Sign up today before the price doubles… 
https://2018.stateofthemap.us/ 

By the way if you are an OpenStreetMap US member, we just sent out a coupon 
code...
If you’re not an OpenStreetMap US member, join today to save some money on the 
conference!  
Visit this link to check or renew your membership: 
https://join.openstreetmap.us/ 


  Check out full State of the Map US Program!
The program for State of the Map US is going to be amazing.  We're excited to 
have over 45 talks spread over 3 days in October so you can learn more from the 
OpenStreetMap US community!  There will also be workshops, social events, and 
hacking.
https://2018.stateofthemap.us/program/ 

Some highlights:
• Clifford Snow will be talkingabout OpenStreetMap in rural America.
• Julian Simioni will be talking about how to improve data for geocoding.
• Drishtie Patel will talk about Facebook's use of OpenStreetMap.

Follow State of the Map US on Twitter and share the latest news:  
https://twitter.com/sotmus 
Looking forward to seeing everyone in Detroit!! 

Bryan


P.S. Want to know what to expect?  Check out our pictures from previous years 
State of the Map US:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/openstreetmapus/albums 



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[Talk-us] State of the Map US Early Bird tickets end tomorrow!

[Bryan Housel]

A few quick reminders about... 
State of the Map US    Detroit, MI · October 5-7th  


  The reduced-price tickets will be available until midnight tomorrow on 
Friday, August 17th.
Sign up today before the price doubles… 
https://2018.stateofthemap.us/ 

By the way if you are an OpenStreetMap US member, we just sent out a coupon 
code...
If you’re not an OpenStreetMap US member, join today to save some money on the 
conference!  
Visit this link to check or renew your membership: 
https://join.openstreetmap.us/ 


  Check out full State of the Map US Program!
The program for State of the Map US is going to be amazing.  We're excited to 
have over 45 talks spread over 3 days in October so you can learn more from the 
OpenStreetMap US community!  There will also be workshops, social events, and 
hacking.
https://2018.stateofthemap.us/program/ 

Some highlights:
• Clifford Snow will be talkingabout OpenStreetMap in rural America.
• Julian Simioni will be talking about how to improve data for geocoding.
• Drishtie Patel will talk about Facebook's use of OpenStreetMap.

Follow State of the Map US on Twitter and share the latest news:  
https://twitter.com/sotmus 
Looking forward to seeing everyone in Detroit!! 

Bryan


P.S. Want to know what to expect?  Check out our pictures from previous years 
State of the Map US:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/openstreetmapus/albums 



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[Talk-us] Proposition for changing the common name tag

[Daniel Koć]

Hi,

I wanted to let you know about proposed change in tagging the name of
USA and I seek for the feedback about it - see the proposition here:

https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=63384





-- 
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]

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Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas

[Tomasz Wójcik]

An use case for allow mapping barrier=block as asreas is a better 
visualisation of a landcoverage. Mapping aeral objects as a nodes makes 
the map a little bit lied.


-- Wiadomość oryginalna --
Od: "Philip Barnes" 
Do: talk@openstreetmap.org; "David Fox" ; 
"Tomasz Wójcik" 

Data: 16.08.2018 10:05:11
Temat: Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas


Hedges can certainly be areas, some can be a few metres thick.

A common mapping scenario is a thick hedge and a stile at each side. 
The only way to represent this is to map as an area and map the stiles 
as nodes connected to the outline.


Phil (trigpoint)

On 16 August 2018 01:14:49 BST, David Fox  
wrote:
Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without 
attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for 
them.

Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area.



On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik  wrote:


Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As 
blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be 
allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, 
currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock

Block examples:
http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif
http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg

Barriers with mapping as area allowed
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge


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Re: [Talk-GB] 'C' class roads references.

[Dave F]

On 16/08/2018 16:00, David Woolley wrote:
I thought that we were heading towards indicating whether the 
reference was signed, but keeping the reference.


The reference is kept. It's being transferred from multiple different 
keys (listed in my OP) to just one. One of the thing on my to-do list is 
amalgamate all 'this road is signed' into a single tag. Similar for any 
relevant Source tag.


I'd go further and say that, for the use case given, it is whether the 
turn, rather than the road, is signed.


That's a major change in tagging policy & a completely different point, 
irrelevant to this thread.


Cheers
DaveF.

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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Christoph Hormann]

> And we took the decision to use this info
> to spot rapidly the populated areas. «Take time» to look at these
> polygons one by one  (we did) and you will see that they reflect
> adequately the density of housing in these areas.

No, they don't (at least not for any meaningful definition of "density 
of housing").

In any case even if they did - iso-lines of some model of a building 
density field are quite fundamentally not something that is mappable in 
OSM, especially not with landuse=residential.

It seems i need to clarify one thing:  My harsh criticizm of the data 
imported (which i stand by firmly) is about the data.  I - just like 
probably everyone else here - am aware that clairedelune did not 
generate this data.  The kind of problem we see here is exactly the 
reason why we have import guidelines and why we need a directed editing 
policy so mappers do not get into a situation where they add bad data 
in larger volume because they follow - usually with good intentions - 
the unqualified instructions of others or wrongly believe the quality 
claims of data providers.

If the import plans had been properly discussed we could have had this 
discussion in advance and could have considered useful options - like 
for example the idea of impoting the buildings as Rory suggested.

I also want to make sure this example is not blown out of proportion.  
There are plenty of bad quality imports and bad mapping in OSM.  If you 
look at landuse=residential mapping in Eastern Africa this is not the 
worst data in the database, not by a large margin.  I just pointed it 
out here as an example because it was a perfect fit for the idea John 
brought up.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 16 August 2018, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> In a way, it's what we did in Western Europe when we only had Landsat
> imagery: "Uh, this looks like a settlement, let's draw a grey blob"

Absolutely not.

The settlement structure of Western Europe can be pretty accurately 
mapped from Landsat images.

What the data import linked to contains has no similarity to this.  And 
even if it did superficially this would be a pretend similarity because 
the settlement structure in this part of the world looks nothing like 
that of Western Europe.  This is just taking some auto-detected 
buildings, throwing some random algorithms at it and labeling the 
resulting abstract geometries landuse=residential.

Ironically if you did do a halfway reasonable classification of 
settlement areas in Landsat data for this area the result would 
probably be much more like a verifiable mapping of settlements in the 
area than what we can see now in the database.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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[Talk-africa] PONT OF CONTACT"MIPANGO YOUTH MAPPERS"

[Gerald Zacharia]

Hi, i am GERALD ZACHARIA
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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Pierre Béland]

Claire who added these polygons  is a resident of DR Congo. She coordinated 
with me the North-Kivu OSM Response in 2012, coordinating with the UN agencies 
and NGO's in Kinshasa.  She is coordinator of OSM-DRC and coordinator of this 
OSM Response for the Ebola outbreak around Beni, working closely with the DRC 
ministry of health and the humanitarian NGO's. I do support Claire for this 
coordination and other OSM projects in DRC. And we took the decision to use 
this info to spot rapidly the populated areas. «Take time» to look at these 
polygons one by one  (we did) and you will see that they reflect adequately the 
density of housing in these areas.

In may, has Potentiel 3.0 just started to support OSM-DRC for the OpenCities 
project in Kinshasa, we collectively had to reorganize quickly and respond to 
the Ebola Oubreak. This second outbreak in august is in a different region. 
Each time, OSM-DRC volunteers accept to support the responses, to go in various 
towns and organize activies. This is a very dynamic OSM communty that know the 
field. 

Quality is very important for us and we started a project to use topological 
analysis to enhance the quality of OSM.  A first analysis based on the geometry 
of the buildings that I published last week on the hot lis was not commented 
except 1 answer. See 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2018-August/014529.htmlhttps://opendatalabrdc.github.io/Blog/index.html#!Bulding_Geometry_Analysis_to_Support_OpenStreetMap_Quality_Analysis.md

Pursuing the analysis, I have identified buildings that cross roads or various 
other polygons and cleaned the data.  See 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61701721#map=12/-4.3993/15.3556
While we support this response, other OSM contributors in Kinshasa are 
organizing a 3 days Focus group for the OpenCities project with the 
neighborhood representatives to evaluate infrastructures at risk in case of 
outbreaks or floods.
See OpenStreetMap RDC on Twitter
 

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OpenStreetMap RDC on Twitter

“Focus group avec représentants des quartiers, zones a risque d'inondation et 
d’érosion Kisenso et matete, Kins...
 |

 |

 |





| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Changeset: 61701721 | OpenStreetMap

OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license.
 |

 |

 |



We are highly involved, volunteering for OSM and you should understand that we 
take some critics with a «a grain of salt».
But the contributor Christoph is going a bit far, insulting, expressing doubts 
about skills of OSM valuable volunteers that know the reality on the ground and 
respond in such difficult context. He should use less epithets, stop signing 
«Verifiability my ass...», clean it, realign his «idle thoughts» and make 
excuses to Claire.

Regard 
Pierre 
 

Le jeudi 16 août 2018 07 h 57 min 38 s HAE, Christoph Hormann 
 a écrit :  
 
 On Thursday 16 August 2018, Rory McCann wrote:
> What's funny is that this import was (according to the changeset
> comment) based on "DigitalGlobe extracted building data". A straight
> up import of the original building geometries would probably be (i)
> less contentious (since a building is a building is a building), and
> (ii) more accurate for calculating population figures (a use for
> building data for humanitarian purposes) and (iii) better for OSM
> since lots of buildings is better than landuse=residential polygons.

I found this peculiar as well - the most likely explanation seems to be 
that the quality of building detection and especially of building 
geometry generation (if that is being done at all) is probably quite 
bad and by not using the building data directly you can kind of 
disguise such deficits.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-GB] 'C' class roads references.

[David Woolley]

On 16/08/18 14:45, webmas...@killyfole.org.uk wrote:

How can this issue be resolved without alienating and driving away long time
contributors to OSM?


I thought that we were heading towards indicating whether the reference 
was signed, but keeping the reference.  I'd go further and say that, for 
the use case given, it is whether the turn, rather than the road, is signed.


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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 16.08.2018 09:56, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61401087

Btw I have commented on this changeset. Apparently the main use case is
having a general indication of "there are people living here".

In a way, it's what we did in Western Europe when we only had Landsat
imagery: "Uh, this looks like a settlement, let's draw a grey blob" ;)

I guess it would look less silly if it had been created on a coarser
level. What we have here *suggests* precision due to the many nodes, but
in the end it's relatively random. Like if you specify the result of a
measurement as 4.35375423 when your error is +/- 1 ;)

A little buffering and simplifying would probably have been a sensible
idea. But then again, had they asked beforehand, it's possible that we
would have told them it's a bad idea to start with ;)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[OSRM-talk] Customized Route Planning using OSRM

[Nida Fathima]

Hello,

I am new to routing engines and trying to get familiar with OSRM.

I need a road segment editor for routing where I should be able to enter
the percentage of the road types that I want to my route to have.
For example, let road types be Motorway, Urban and Rural and I enter
[30%],[40%] and [30%]. The route should be calculated based on these 3
inputs.

My questions:
1. Is it possible to do this using OSRM?
2. If yes, How can this be done?

I request you to please give suggestions and guide me on this.

Thank you for your time.

Best Regards,
Nida
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data (Brian May)

[Tom Lee]

> If a billionaire is reading this list and wants to put their money
> towards doing a lot of public good and good for the economy in general
> (data is the new oil), they could make the sky rain lawyers!

I share your enthusiasm for billionaires with idiosyncratic obsessions (who
doesn't like Batman?) and think this would be a great project.

But let me also add that there's a lot of work we non-billionaires (and
even non-lawyers) can do to make this scenario more likely. Going through
the tedious process of FOIAing, appealing the denial, then FOIAing for the
emails about the process, then publishing everything in a blog post --
these steps set the stage for a larger action (if appropriate) and
typically have to be done first. Actual practitioners are the ones in the
best position to know what data is needed and where the rationale for
keeping it locked up is most absurd. Not every one of these efforts will
end in success, but it's a necessary start.

I'll add that folks who do undertake such an effort might want to check out
MuckRock, which is a great resource for submitting and sharing FOIAs. And
of course Carl Malamud's work at public.resource.org is an inspiration on
this front, though I suspect he's so much on his plate that it might be
hard to get him interested in geodata.

Tom
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Re: [OSM-talk] As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume - The New York Times

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 16. Aug 2018, at 16:25, Maarten Deen  wrote:
> 
> This has been pointed out to Google many, many times (through their 
> inadequate feedback tool and via Google employees) and has long been ignored. 
> It has now been corrected


don’t help them. The worse their errors are, the better for OSM. Let’s point 
people to OSM rather than help the Goog fix their data.

Cheers,
Martin 
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[Talk-us] [Talk-us-nps] North Carolina National Park

[Jim McAndrew]

Nic,

I'm CCing the general talk-us on this, since National Forests are outside
of the separate from the National Park Service, and there may be someone
there who can provide more guidance.

In this particular case the Pocosin Wilderness Area is managed by the
Forest Service (part of the US Dept of Agriculture), although "wilderness
areas" can be managed by a number of groups within the federal government.

If you're using data from state governments, you will need to look at the
licensing restrictions, because many states do not release their data into
public domain. US Federal government datasets are mandated to be in the
public domain, so there are no issues using them for OpenStreetMap.

Since this National Forest and Wildlife area are not units of the National
Park System, you will not find them in the irma.nps.gov dataset. It looks
like your best source of data for this will be the PDF that you linked:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5403940.pdf --
Although it doesn't appear that the PDF is geo-enabled.

I was able to find the boundary in the dataset named "Administrative Forest
Boundaries": https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.
php?dsetCategory=boundaries
That may be another good source.

I would also suggest overlaying the boundaries and making tweaks to the
existing OSM boundary instead of importing the new boundary and deleting
the old. That would allow existing points in the database to maintain their
history.

I'm hoping someone from the general talk-us group can provide more input on
this. Best of luck!

--
Jim McAndrew



On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 9:39 AM Nicolas Duclos  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I’m new in OSM Community and after a short trip on East Coast of North
> Carolina, I decided to help making NC more accurate than it is right now.
>
> I’m currently trying to edit or remake the Croatan National Forest, but
> I’m not too sure how to achieve it by importing data. Currently for some
> reasons there is two Croatan National Forest at the same place and the
> shape is not really accurate compared to other maps out there.
>
> Here is what I found :
>
> http://data.nconemap.gov/geoportal/dataexplorer/index.jsp
>
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5403940.pdf
>
> Not too sure about the proclamation area on the map and what’s the
> difference between national forest and wilderness.
>
> I could also create trails and outdoor activities spot in OSM.
>
> Data :
>
> http://data.nconemap.gov/geoportal/catalog/main/home.page (type *marea*
> in search box)
> or
> https://irma.nps.gov/DataStore/Reference/Profile/2224545?lnv=True
>
> Not too sure which data to take or how they works.
>
> Thank you very much for your help.
>
> Nic from Canada 
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume - The New York Times

[Maarten Deen]

On 2018-08-16 16:03, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

On 16.08.2018 13:06, Andy Mabbett wrote:

This may be of interest:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/technology/google-maps-neighborhood-names.html


Scary. Can we revert Google?


Google does not seem to take much responsibility. When you look at the 
dutch version of Google Maps, they have a lot of cities translated to 
what they think are names we use.

Some we do, some we don't. Or have never done.
For instance: Paris in dutch is Parijs and gets used a lot. An archaich 
name for Ljubljana is Laibach and was mostly used in germanic countries, 
but never really used in the Netherlands. Guess what Google chooses to 
show dutch users of Google Maps when they look at Ljubljana.
This has been pointed out to Google many, many times (through their 
inadequate feedback tool and via Google employees) and has long been 
ignored. It has now been corrected, as well as the nearby town of 
Marburg an der Drau, but in Northern France we still see Sint-Omaars, 
Ariën-aan-de-Leie en Dowaai.


And sometimes they make really stupid translations. The Dutch town of 
Balk is translated to Balke in German and Beam in English. Yes, that is 
the correct translation for the technical structure, but no sane person 
would use that for the town's name and it has never been an official 
translation.


Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [Talk-GB] 'C' class roads references.

[Brian Prangle]

Isn't there a code of conduct for automated edits which calls for
documentation and discussion before the edits are performed?  Precisely to
avoid this kind of situation. Rgds Brian

On 16 August 2018 at 14:45, webmas...@killyfole.org.uk <
webmas...@killyfole.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am a bit surprised that an editing war or even a block would even be
> considered in this case!
>
> This user has been editing from 2009 and has 11k edits under their belt.
> They
> are obviously very passionate and dedicated to OSM and have gone to a lot
> of
> trouble and spent a lot of time to research the road reference numbers.
>
> I really do believe you are going to hit a lot more resistance to this
> bulk/
> mass edit and are quite frankly going to really annoy a lot of long time
> contributors in the process.  I also know for a fact if you made this edit
> in
> N. Ireland, I would be doing the same thing as tms13 is doing.
>
> How can this issue be resolved without alienating and driving away long
> time
> contributors to OSM?
>
> With kind regards,
> KDDA
>
> On Thursday, 16 August 2018 14:24:11 IST Dave F wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > A contributor has been reverting my changesets over the past few days:
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/tms13/history#map=7/56.741/-4.252
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61655207
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61623830#map=11/56.4828/-3.2425
> >
> > As I don't wish to get into an edit war & believe blocking is a last
> > resort, would it be possible if a couple of others attempt to help him
> > understand the reasons.
> >
> > Cheers
> > DaveF
> >
> > On 04/08/2018 00:47, Dave F wrote:
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > After many discussions over the years about the referencing of 'C'
> > > class roads there appeared to be a general consensus to keep them in
> > > the database but provide a unique tag to allow them not to be rendered.
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume - The New York Times

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 16.08.2018 13:06, Andy Mabbett wrote:

This may be of interest:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/technology/google-maps-neighborhood-names.html 


Scary. Can we revert Google?

tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] 'C' class roads references.

[Dave F]

On 16/08/2018 14:45, webmas...@killyfole.org.uk wrote:

Hi,

I am a bit surprised that an editing war or even a block would even be
considered in this case!


Err?... I clearly said that what I *don't* want.

DaveF




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Re: [Talk-dk] Hosting af autoAWS

[Mikkel Kirkgaard Nielsen]

Hej Søren.

On 2018-08-15 13:58, Soren Johannessen wrote:
> Vores GIS mand har lige kigget på wiki'en og ser at du kræver et 
> windows miljø for dit script.

Jonathan skriver blot at han har anvendt WampServer[1] (en specifik
WAMP-distribution[2]) til at eksekvere scriptet med indtil nu. Så vidt
jeg kan se af koden til autoAWS 1.0[3] er eneste krav en webserver med
en PHP-fortolker der har curl[4] og SimpleXML[5]-udvidelserne aktiveret
samt PDO_MYSQL driveren[6] installeret.
Det er alt sammen standardkomponenter, og en opsætning som både
GNU/Linux og Windows-systemer kan honorere uden problemer.


> Er det muligt for dig at lave det i linux miljø samt komme det i 
> docker-container?

Jeg er i gang med at forsøge at sætte autoAWS 1.0 op på min private
Ubuntu Linux server, og der er en del ting der ikke spiller i forhold
til det materiale der er tilgængeligt.
Bl.a. er der nogle "redacted" kodesektioner, som deklarerer variable der
er nødvendige for at scriptet overhovedet kan eksekveres uden
syntaksfejl (bl.a. rimeligt centrale variable til brugerautentifikation
mod databasen).
På min server er jeg lige nu der hvor scriptet forventer tabeller i
databasen, og da der ikke er noget dokumenteret databaseschema eller
scriptet forholder sig til at kunne oprette dem, skal der enten udføres
noget analysearbejde eller mere information til fra Jonathan for at
kunne komme videre (gerne en "mysqldump -u  -h 
--no-data -p " fra maskinen det kører på).


Et andet potentielt problem er at versionshistorikken beskriver en
version 1.1, men koden til denne er ikke tilgængelig.

Jeg arbejde lige nu med den dokumentation og de ændringer jeg foretager
i et lokalt git-repository, men det ville være oplagt at få koden til
autoAWS lagt ind under OSM-DK[7] på GitHub (eller måske hellere GitLab,
eller endda git.openstreetmap.org?), så interesserede kan samarbejde om
videreudvikling og vedligehold/produktionsmodning.

Dotsrc.org har forøvrigt lige meldt positivt tilbage, og vil gerne
stille en server til rådighed. Jonathan og jeg er ved at koordinere det
med administratoren derfra.

Hilsner,
-- 
Mikkel

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WampServer
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAMP_(software_bundle)#WAMP
[3] https://pastebin.com/KCRYfY3W
[4] http://php.net/manual/en/book.curl.php
[5] http://php.net/manual/en/book.simplexml.php
[6] http://php.net/manual/en/ref.pdo-mysql.php
[7] https://github.com/OSM-DK

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Re: [Talk-cz] Kontrola uctu pro fotky rozcestniku

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj,

po delší době mám už něco, co se dá aspoň jako prototyp ukázat. Zatím
stále není dořešeno několik důležitých věcí, některé počkají, jiné
před produkčním spuštěním ještě musím dotáhnout. Pokud by byl někdo
ochotný udělat pokusného králíka, budu rád když se mi ozve.

Základní info a další odkazy jsou na
https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/PhotoDB2/wiki/

Mimochodem, teď mne nejvíc pálí vyřešení licencování, nevíte o někom,
kdo by v tom měl nějaké zkušenosti a byl ochotný to se mnou probrat,
jestli moje představa dává smysl z praktického ale i právního
hlediska? Mám nějaký kontakt na člověka z Wikipedie ale zatím se
neozval (i tak díky Laďo).

Diky všem.


Dne 3. července 2018 13:36 Tom Ka  napsal(a):
> Ahoj,
>
> vzhledem k tomu, ze walleyho system pro fotky dlouhodobe nefunguje
> tak, aby byl pro mne pouzitelny a s walleym se nejsem schopen
> dohodnout na nejake zmene, rozhodl jsem se udelat si system vlastni
> (aka PhotoDB2). Prvnim krokem pro import stavajicich dat je jejich
> uvedeni do stavu, kdy jsou aspon castecne pouzitelna a na to budu
> potrebovat v ruznych pripadech kontaktovat autory fotek.
>
> Proto prosim o kontrolu vaseho uctu v teto tabulce:
>
> https://osm.fit.vutbr.cz/photodb2/import.php?stat.author
>
> Prvni sloupec je autor dle DB z api.openstreetmap.cz (po
> upravach/slouceni) zrejmych preklepu apod, druhy je odhadnuty OSM nick
> - ten je pro mne kvuli komunikaci stezejni, posledni je pocet fotek
> daneho cloveka. Podivejte se prosim jestli (pokud nahravate fotky) v
> tabulce jste a sedi obe vase jmena a zaroven nejste v tabulce vickrat.
> Pokud je neco spatne, poslete mi prosim spravne info do mailu (neni
> treba do konference at neplevelime).
>
> Pro pripadne zajemce jsou stavajici (pracovni, zatim nic pro finalni
> uzivatele) skripty na https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/PhotoDB2.
>
> Diky moc tom.k.
>
> P.S.: Nepiste mi prosim, ze se mam radeji s wallym dohodnout a
> spolupracovat, uz jsem promrhal prilis mnoho casu kdyz jsem se o to
> snazil a nefunguje to.

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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Andy Townsend]

On 16/08/2018 12:35, Rory McCann wrote:

What's funny is that this import was (according to the changeset
comment) based on "DigitalGlobe extracted building data". A straight up
import of the original building geometries would probably be (i) less
contentious (since a building is a building is a building)


I think the problem here is that "a building is a building is a 
building" isn't really true.  There are many different kinds of 
structures in many different parts of the world, and many different 
light conditions, and different ground surfaces.


We saw this problem with the Facebook "roads import" in Egypt - whatever 
software they were using was detected many sharp edges in imagery 
(walls, canals, etc.) as roads.  If you train whatever you're using to 
detect stuff in one environment and try and use it in another 
environment it's going to get things wrong in unpredictable ways, and 
that's not really going to be obvious if you then (as here) estimate 
residential areas based on extracted buildings.  I can, however, see the 
sense of trying to do that (estimate residential areas based on 
extracted buildings) - in some areas actual buildings are likely to be 
ephemeral, but usage of areas not so much.


Best Regards,

Andy




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Re: [Talk-GB] 'C' class roads references.

[webmas...@killyfole.org.uk]

Hi,

I am a bit surprised that an editing war or even a block would even be 
considered in this case!  

This user has been editing from 2009 and has 11k edits under their belt.  They 
are obviously very passionate and dedicated to OSM and have gone to a lot of 
trouble and spent a lot of time to research the road reference numbers.

I really do believe you are going to hit a lot more resistance to this bulk/
mass edit and are quite frankly going to really annoy a lot of long time 
contributors in the process.  I also know for a fact if you made this edit in 
N. Ireland, I would be doing the same thing as tms13 is doing. 

How can this issue be resolved without alienating and driving away long time 
contributors to OSM?

With kind regards,
KDDA

On Thursday, 16 August 2018 14:24:11 IST Dave F wrote:
> Hi
> 
> A contributor has been reverting my changesets over the past few days:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/tms13/history#map=7/56.741/-4.252
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61655207
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61623830#map=11/56.4828/-3.2425
> 
> As I don't wish to get into an edit war & believe blocking is a last
> resort, would it be possible if a couple of others attempt to help him
> understand the reasons.
> 
> Cheers
> DaveF
> 
> On 04/08/2018 00:47, Dave F wrote:
> > Hi
> > 
> > After many discussions over the years about the referencing of 'C'
> > class roads there appeared to be a general consensus to keep them in
> > the database but provide a unique tag to allow them not to be rendered.
> 
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb





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Re: [Talk-GB] 'C' class roads references.

[Lester Caine]

On 16/08/18 14:24, Dave F wrote:

A contributor has been reverting my changesets over the past few days:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/tms13/history#map=7/56.741/-4.252

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61655207
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61623830#map=11/56.4828/-3.2425

As I don't wish to get into an edit war & believe blocking is a last 
resort, would it be possible if a couple of others attempt to help him 
understand the reasons.


On what basis is 'highway_authority_ref' being put forward since I don't 
think the councils who allocate the references for C and U roads are 
actually the 'highway_authority' but are responsible for those roads NOT 
designated as the responsibility of the 'highway_authority' ... at least 
that is my reading of the situation. These references are 
'local_authority_ref' and are not unique from one part of the country to 
another while 'highway_authority_ref' suggests a more central management?


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - https://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] [test] Customized Taginfo : 620 areas - every country and some new experimental features ( ~ 1 week test )

[Frédéric Rodrigo]

Hello,

It's an impressive job. It can really help.
Just a note about France, you split France on admin_level=6, this result 
on around 100 pieces, it does not make sens. For France admin_level=4 is 
the only right level of sub area.


Like for France or other countries, sub levels is interesting but the 
country as a whole also..


Frédéric.


Le 14/08/2018 à 20:26, Imre Samu a écrit :
This is a Proof of Concept of my vision [ customizing taginfo for 
countries, regions ]

in my experience - It can be useful for finding local tagging errors.


dev site: http://taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu 
 find your area/country

1 week test:   shutdown time: *~ 2018-aug-20 ( GMT 23:00h )*


Main changes:

*-  620 areas  - not refreshing *
      = 620 docker services running in a simple cloud machine.
                    32Gb RAM,   slow CPU :  Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU  
C2750  @ 2.40GHz,   8 core ,  ~ 600Gb Disk )


*-  2 new experimental reports*:

      "QA-Normalized name differences (Experimental)"
            example: 
http://eu-at.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/reports/normalized_names
            The result can be download as an xlsx file: 
http://eu-at.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/download/normalized_names.xlsx


            ( I hope - this will be useful for the localized 
https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index
                     ( see 
https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/issues/11 )



      "QA-Problematic tags (Experimental)"     [ still a lot of bugs,  
 for example:  checking access type of tags  is not perfect yet, sorry ]
             example: 
http://eu-at.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/reports/problematic_tags
             .xlsx result: 
http://eu-at.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/download/problematic_tags.xlsx


*- `name` support for tags  ( Experimental ) *

     examples:
     Spain   amenity=place_of_worship     ( names in Spanish  + Català 
(ca), Galego (ga) and Euskera (eu) )
         name       = 
http://eu-es.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=place_of_worship#tagnames_lang1
         name:es  = 
http://eu-es.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=place_of_worship#tagnames_lang2
         name:eu  = 
http://eu-es.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=place_of_worship#tagnames_lang3
         name:ca  = 
http://eu-es.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=place_of_worship#tagnames_lang4
         name:gl   = 
http://eu-es.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=place_of_worship#tagnames_lang5



       or Switzerland   amenity=bank
         name       = 
http://eu-ch.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=bank#tagnames_lang1
         name:en  = 
http://eu-ch.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=bank#tagnames_lang2
         name:de  = 
http://eu-ch.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=bank#tagnames_lang3
         name:fr    = 
http://eu-ch.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=bank#tagnames_lang4
         name:it    = 
http://eu-ch.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=bank#tagnames_lang5
      the "name:*" tags configured on the 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names info but not 
perfect yet.


      so "Belgium has three official languages (Dutch, French and 
German) "    so the *amenity=pub * names is:
       name     = 
http://eu-be.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=pub#tagnames_lang1
       name:fr  = 
http://eu-be.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=pub#tagnames_lang2
       name:nl = 
http://eu-be.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=pub#tagnames_lang3
       name:en = 
http://eu-be.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=pub#tagnames_lang4
       name:de = 
http://eu-be.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=pub#tagnames_lang5
     or in Ireland (Republic )  -  amenity=pub  names  in a Gaeltacht 
(name:ga)  : 
http://eu-ie.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=pub#tagnames_lang3


      It is interesting for checking in your area the tag"names" of    
*=yes  tags -  some of them easy to fix.
       * shop=yes  ;  amenity=yes   ;    man_made=yes ; natural=yes 
; sport=yes  ; leisure=yes


          amenity=yes  in the UK ( 
http://eu-gb.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/amenity=yes#tagnames_lang1 )
          shop=yes       in the UK ( 
http://eu-gb.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/tags/shop=yes#tagnames_lang1 )


*
*
*Housenumbers ...*

 It is interesting for me - checking the frequent 
* addr**:**housenumber *  values.


 In Taiwan ( 
http://as-tw.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/keys/addr%3Ahousenumber#values 
)    not so much  number "4"
 compare to european countries ...   (  hint: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia )
 in Switzerland - check the 13   :)   ( 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskaidekaphobia )

http://eu-ch.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/keys/addr%3Ahousenumber#values

The South America - has a different frequent housenumbers - compare to 
Europe:


Argentina  :  TOP3   199,201,200 :
http://sa-ar.taginfo-dev.opengeodata.hu/keys/addr%3Ahousenumber#values
Peru :           TOP3  

Re: [Talk-GB] 'C' class roads references.

[Dave F]

Hi

A contributor has been reverting my changesets over the past few days:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/tms13/history#map=7/56.741/-4.252

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61655207
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61623830#map=11/56.4828/-3.2425

As I don't wish to get into an edit war & believe blocking is a last 
resort, would it be possible if a couple of others attempt to help him 
understand the reasons.


Cheers
DaveF

On 04/08/2018 00:47, Dave F wrote:

Hi

After many discussions over the years about the referencing of 'C' 
class roads there appeared to be a general consensus to keep them in 
the database but provide a unique tag to allow them not to be rendered.



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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 134, Issue 8

[Adam Roberts]

Thanks Andrew. I'm working with the Targomo API (https://www.targomo.com),
which does consider sidewalk tags, if present.

I won't be removing the already mapped footways. You are correct -
shouldn't interfere.

Cheers,
Adam



Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 11:17:04 +1000
> From: Andrew Davidson 
> To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Pedestrian/bike access near Wiley Park
> Message-ID: <87f43a36-40c9-c0f4-9007-283509bac...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 15/8/18 02:18, Adam Roberts wrote:
> > Hey folks,
> > I'm experiencing some routing difficulties for ped/bike near the Wiley
> Park
> > station, and looking for some tagging and digitizing advice.
>
> Just out of interest: which router are you using? I haven't been able to
> find one that consumes the sidewalk tag.
>
> > Sidewalk tags seems the most straightforward, as I won't
> > need to connect each sidewalk via crosswalks, but that would likely
> involve
> > removing the mapped sidewalks south of The Boulevarde, and replacing as
> > tags. Would that be ok?
>
> Not really.
>
> Is there any reason why you can't combine both mapping schemes? All that
> sidewalk=left means is that somewhere to the left of this way there is a
> footway/cycleway. If you also map that footway/cycleway then the tag is
> still correct. I don't see why you would have to delete the
> footway/cycleway.
>
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[OSM-talk-fr] La dernière version de PT_Assistant vient d'être publié

[Jo]

Salutations,

La dernière version du greffon PT_Assistant vient d'être publié pour un
usage général. Il y a quelques jours déjà, mais je voulais encore tester un
peu avant de l'annoncer.

Il fonctionne avec josm_tested.jar. Pour le mettre à jour il faut peut-être
mettre à jour votre liste de greffons.

Les nouvelles fonctionnalités incluent:
- Nouveau Map Mode pour diviser un chemin en 2 points simultanément et
appliquer directement les tags: bridge/tunnel=yes bus_bay=right/left/both
ou traffic_calming=table. Il fonctionne également sur 2 chemins qui se
'touchent'.

- Assistant de routage avec 2 modes de fonctionnement:
  * quelle chemin emprunter à la prochaine bifurcation?
  * transfert de chaînes plus longues de chemins, qui connectent déjà
correctement le chemin d'origine et le chemin juste après l'interruption
dans la route actuelle

   (il faut trouver un meilleur nom pour cette option-là, en anglais j'ai
tendance à l'appeler Fast-Forward)

   (Ce n'est qu'une aide, il faut toujours vérifier lesquelles des options
est la plus adéquate et vérifier si la route est bien amélioré après
l'application.)

- Un 'wizard' pour vous aider à configurer JOSM pour faciliter la
cartographie d'itinéraires bus, vélo ou de randonnée. (Depuis l'été dernier
PT_Assistant visualise également les relations route bicycle et
foot/walking/hiking, avec les chemins qui ne sont utilisés que dans une des
sens, dans une autre couleur, ce qui facilite l'appilcation correcte des
rôles forward/backward)

- Beaucoup d'améliorations divers et des bugs resolus.


Polyglot
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[Talk-us] buggy buildings in Maryland

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

over the last 2 years, DWG has had a three different complaints about a
buggy building import that has been run on and off by the user
"annapolissailor".

The import was problematic in many ways, most obviously because huge
batches of un-used nodes were uploaded and later it was attempted to
connect them, which sometimes failed, leaving lots of un-used nodes in
the database; also, almost all buildings are over-noded, taking 10 or
more nodes for a simple rectangular building (eg
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/435663194). Buildings that were in the
area before have been deleted outright, and the data source and legal
situation is unclear (many buildings are much too precise to have come
from aerial imagery).

(Needless to say, had the import been discussed up front as is
customary, all these issues could have been avoided.)

I have tried to work with the importer but they seem to be ultimately
unable or unwilling to fix the problems even though they did seem to
understand the issue at some point
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1587). They asked me a couple
of times to "hold off reverting data until next steps are discussed on
the imports list" but never followed up on the promise. They claimed to
have spent hundreds of hours on the JOSM validator improving problems
they had introduced.

I am at the moment deleting about 70,000 untagged and un-used nodes that
have been left over from this import, which is the uncontroversial part.

The total amount of buildings created and still visible is 177,151, with
a total of 1,980,336 nodes, in the general area "East of Washington DC,
South of Baltimore, North of Chesapeake Beach".

I think these buildings need to be deleted too, given their technical
(over-noding) and legal (we don't know where the data came from and what
license it is under) issues.

However, given how much work the mapper claims to have invested in this,
I wonder if there's maybe a way to salvage the data. That would first
require us to clear up the legal situation, and if it turns out the
source is legal, then we'd have to go about killing the extra nodes in
buildings.

I'm basically looking for volunteers here. Other mappers have tried to
discuss the issue with the mapper himself and never got far either, but
of course if someone wanted to try and enlist annapolissailor's support,
fair enough (perhaps agree here on the list who's doing it though, so
that we don't have 10 people spamming him...)

I have prepared a file that contains all the buildings in question:

http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/annapolis.osm.gz

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] wikidata vs brand:wikidata : le challenge MapRoulette

[PanierAvide]

Bonjour,

Pas sûr que ça marche ou soit fait pour, mais si on ajoute sur cette 
page un ensemble de tag wikidata=* que l'on indique de transformer en 
brand:wikidata=*, ça fait pas le boulot côté Osmose ? Pour le coup ce 
serait simple à mettre en place, il ne resterait plus qu'à générer cette 
liste de valeurs wikidata pour lesquels on sait qu'elles référencent des 
chaînes.


Adrien.

Le 16/08/2018 à 13:29, Noémie Lehuby a écrit :


Hello,

Je suis encore retombé cette semaine sur des magasins avec un tag 
wikidata.

Est-ce qu'on a avancé un peu sur le sujet ?

La page wiki avec la liste des magasins ne contient qu'une quinzaine 
d'éléments : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/Marques_et_cha%C3%AEnes 



On avait parlé d'une analyse Osmose : peut-être qu'une blacklist sur 
un ensemble de valeurs pour le tag wikidata qu'on sait être une chaine 
de magasin peut être un bon début (un magasin qui a le tag wikidata de 
Carrefour devrait être passé en brand:wikidata dans la majorité des 
cas). Qu'en pensez-vous ?


Et on avait aussi parlé de refaire un challenge Maproulette pour 
vérifier tous les magasins et les banques qui avaient un tag wikidata.


Noémie

Le 2018-04-16 14:21, PanierAvide a écrit :


Bonjour,

Sur la base de la requête suivante : http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/xRn
Qui était elle-même basée sur la requête Wikidata que tu avais 
proposée, élargie à un rayon de 1000 km. Mais effectivement le 
prédicat de départ c'est de sortir les éléments dont le tag wikidata 
est une chaîne de magasins. Donc c'est limité à ce qui est 
correctement renseigné côté wikidata comme telle.


On peut partir sur une requête plus large, côté Overpass cette 
fois-ci, où on considère qu'un shop n'est pas sensé avoir de tag 
wikidata (ce qui sera vrai dans la plupart des cas). Ça nous donne la 
requête suivante :


http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/xWm

Soit 1410 lieux concernés. Si c'est OK dans le principe, on peut 
repartir sur un autre challenge MapRoulette.


Adrien.


Le 16/04/2018 à 14:12, Noémie Lehuby a écrit :


Bonjour,

Sur quelle base (requête Overpass ou autre) as-tu constitué ton 
challenge ? On en a déjà fait le tour et je doute qu'il y ait si peu 
d'objets à corriger ...


Noémie

Le 2018-04-14 20:35, PanierAvide a écrit :

Bonjour,

J'ai créé le challenge MapRoulette pour changer les tags
wikidata=* inappropriés sur les franchises (en précisant dans la
description l'objectif visé) :
http://maproulette.org/mr3/challenge/2997

À vos claviers, prêts ? Éditez ! ;-)

Cordialement,

Adrien.

Le 11/04/2018 à 16:13, Noémie Lehuby a écrit :

Bonjour,

Le tag wikidata correspondant à Autolib' a été ajouté sur
les stations Autolib' de région parisienne.
Par exemple : https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4472979080

Il me semble que cela devrait être dans un tag
brand:wikidata (voire operator:wikidata). Je me trompe ?

Noémie



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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 16 August 2018, Rory McCann wrote:
> What's funny is that this import was (according to the changeset
> comment) based on "DigitalGlobe extracted building data". A straight
> up import of the original building geometries would probably be (i)
> less contentious (since a building is a building is a building), and
> (ii) more accurate for calculating population figures (a use for
> building data for humanitarian purposes) and (iii) better for OSM
> since lots of buildings is better than landuse=residential polygons.

I found this peculiar as well - the most likely explanation seems to be 
that the quality of building detection and especially of building 
geometry generation (if that is being done at all) is probably quite 
bad and by not using the building data directly you can kind of 
disguise such deficits.

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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Rory McCann]

What's funny is that this import was (according to the changeset
comment) based on "DigitalGlobe extracted building data". A straight up
import of the original building geometries would probably be (i) less
contentious (since a building is a building is a building), and (ii)
more accurate for calculating population figures (a use for building
data for humanitarian purposes) and (iii) better for OSM since lots of
buildings is better than landuse=residential polygons.

Sometimes people can try to be *too* clever. 

On 16/08/18 13:16, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Thursday 16 August 2018, Warin wrote:


Satellite imagery is available for the world..
But how much do you know of Africa?
[...]


You maybe don't realize that but the kind of data garbage i pointed to
is the direct result of projecting ideas and experiences of settlement
structures of some part of the world onto a different one. We are
mostly talking about scattered dwellings of what are probably mostly
subsistence farmers here.  The pointless polygon geometry drawing is
the failed attempt to regard those as a typical European/North American
residential area.

If this is due to a lack of knowledge about the actual geography or
because of a misguided belief that making it crudely look a bit like an
European/North American residential area is kind of beneficial for the
people there i don't know.

Anyway we are drifting off-topic here and this does not really help the
original question from John.  My answer to that would be:  Yes,
automated methods can help to find unmapped settlements in OSM - less
though in actually mapping them.




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] wikidata vs brand:wikidata : le challenge MapRoulette

[Noémie Lehuby]

Hello,

Je suis encore retombé cette semaine sur des magasins avec un tag
wikidata. 
Est-ce qu'on a avancé un peu sur le sujet ?

La page wiki avec la liste des magasins ne contient qu'une quinzaine
d'éléments :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/Marques_et_cha%C3%AEnes


On avait parlé d'une analyse Osmose : peut-être qu'une blacklist sur un
ensemble de valeurs pour le tag wikidata qu'on sait être une chaine de
magasin peut être un bon début (un magasin qui a le tag wikidata de
Carrefour devrait être passé en brand:wikidata dans la majorité des
cas). Qu'en pensez-vous ?

Et on avait aussi parlé de refaire un challenge Maproulette pour
vérifier tous les magasins et les banques qui avaient un tag wikidata.

Noémie 

Le 2018-04-16 14:21, PanierAvide a écrit :

> Bonjour, 
> 
> Sur la base de la requête suivante : http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/xRn
> Qui était elle-même basée sur la requête Wikidata que tu avais proposée, 
> élargie à un rayon de 1000 km. Mais effectivement le prédicat de départ c'est 
> de sortir les éléments dont le tag wikidata est une chaîne de magasins. Donc 
> c'est limité à ce qui est correctement renseigné côté wikidata comme telle. 
> 
> On peut partir sur une requête plus large, côté Overpass cette fois-ci, où on 
> considère qu'un shop n'est pas sensé avoir de tag wikidata (ce qui sera vrai 
> dans la plupart des cas). Ça nous donne la requête suivante : 
> 
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/xWm 
> 
> Soit 1410 lieux concernés. Si c'est OK dans le principe, on peut repartir sur 
> un autre challenge MapRoulette. 
> 
> Adrien. 
> Le 16/04/2018 à 14:12, Noémie Lehuby a écrit : 
> 
> Bonjour, 
> 
> Sur quelle base (requête Overpass ou autre) as-tu constitué ton challenge ? 
> On en a déjà fait le tour et je doute qu'il y ait si peu d'objets à corriger 
> ... 
> 
> Noémie 
> 
> Le 2018-04-14 20:35, PanierAvide a écrit : 
> Bonjour,
> 
> J'ai créé le challenge MapRoulette pour changer les tags wikidata=* 
> inappropriés sur les franchises (en précisant dans la description l'objectif 
> visé) :
> http://maproulette.org/mr3/challenge/2997
> 
> À vos claviers, prêts ? Éditez ! ;-)
> 
> Cordialement,
> 
> Adrien.
> 
> Le 11/04/2018 à 16:13, Noémie Lehuby a écrit : 
> 
> Bonjour, 
> 
> Le tag wikidata correspondant à Autolib' a été ajouté sur les stations 
> Autolib' de région parisienne.
> Par exemple : https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4472979080 
> 
> Il me semble que cela devrait être dans un tag brand:wikidata (voire 
> operator:wikidata). Je me trompe ? 
> 
> Noémie
> 
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> -- 
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> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 16 August 2018, Warin wrote:
>
> Satellite imagery is available for the world..
> But how much do you know of Africa?
> [...]

You maybe don't realize that but the kind of data garbage i pointed to 
is the direct result of projecting ideas and experiences of settlement 
structures of some part of the world onto a different one. We are 
mostly talking about scattered dwellings of what are probably mostly 
subsistence farmers here.  The pointless polygon geometry drawing is 
the failed attempt to regard those as a typical European/North American 
residential area.  

If this is due to a lack of knowledge about the actual geography or 
because of a misguided belief that making it crudely look a bit like an 
European/North American residential area is kind of beneficial for the 
people there i don't know.

Anyway we are drifting off-topic here and this does not really help the 
original question from John.  My answer to that would be:  Yes, 
automated methods can help to find unmapped settlements in OSM - less 
though in actually mapping them.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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[OSM-talk] As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume - The New York Times

[Andy Mabbett]

This may be of interest:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/technology/google-maps-
neighborhood-names.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Warin]

On 16/08/18 19:26, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Thursday 16 August 2018, Warin wrote:

As that particular mapper has local knowledge on their side I'd not
challenge them.

Why not?

I would love to see some ground level or aerial/satellite images
documenting the verifiability of those outlines.

The good thing about verifiability and the core of OpenStreetMap in
general is that you don't have to trust some imagined authority about
the data, you can independently verify it.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume in such cases
they are just ignorant of these principles or do not get why they are
important but with organized efforts like this i can't help but get the
impression there is a certain amount of malice to sabotage or at least
an excessive amount of carelessness.


Satellite imagery is available for the world..
But how much do you know of Africa?

A residential area in Germany or Australia is very different from one in rural 
Africa or Asia.
A residential house/home is also very different ..
A fuel station in Africa can be signified by PET bottles strung up in a tree.. 
or on a fence.
and the fuel comes in those same PET bottles ... no 'gas pumps'. But you get 
your fuel.
We should not be imposing our standards on them, but rather accept their 
interpretation of what is a house, what is residential, etc.

I would not like to go to that particular area of the world to get ground truth 
...
Western CDR ok .. eastern .. ummm ... no thanks.


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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 16 August 2018, Warin wrote:
>
> As that particular mapper has local knowledge on their side I'd not
> challenge them.

Why not?

I would love to see some ground level or aerial/satellite images 
documenting the verifiability of those outlines.

The good thing about verifiability and the core of OpenStreetMap in 
general is that you don't have to trust some imagined authority about 
the data, you can independently verify it.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume in such cases 
they are just ignorant of these principles or do not get why they are 
important but with organized efforts like this i can't help but get the 
impression there is a certain amount of malice to sabotage or at least 
an excessive amount of carelessness.

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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Warin]

On 16/08/18 17:56, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Thursday 16 August 2018, john whelan wrote:

Could this be used to detect villages and towns which have not yet
been mapped.

If something could drop some sort of marker where it thinks a cluster
of buildings are then we could use overpass to pull them into JOSM
and map them as places, landuse=residential, village or whatever.

As you might already imagine reality is way ahead of you - for example
someone has recently been dumping a whole bunch of garbage exactly like
this in eastern Congo:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61401087
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/614459980

 From a purely technical point of view if it wasn't littering OSM this
would just be droll.

Verifiability my ass...



Sigh.

I suppose if you want to see blank areas of the map you'll have to look 
for the deserts .. (including the polar caps). Oh .. and oceans too.



As that particular mapper has local knowledge on their side I'd not 
challenge them.


Though a change set of close to 2,000 ways does look a bit large.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas

[Philip Barnes]

Hedges can certainly be areas, some can be a few metres thick.

A common mapping scenario is a thick hedge and a stile at each side. The only 
way to represent this is to map as an area and map the stiles as nodes 
connected to the outline.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On 16 August 2018 01:14:49 BST, David Fox  wrote:
>Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without
>attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for
>them.
>Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area.
>
>On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik  wrote:
>
>
>
>Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As
>blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be
>allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway,
>currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database.
>
>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock
>
>
>Block examples:
>
>http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif
>
>http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg
>
>
>Barriers with mapping as area allowed
>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall 
>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge

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Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas

[_ dikkeknodel]

Hi Tomasz,

Could you elaborate on what would be the use-case for this approach and why 
that is relevant? At the moment I do not see the relevance for mappnig them as 
an area.

Cheers,
dikkenodel




Van: Yves 
Verzonden: Thursday, August 16, 2018 8:20:59 AM
Aan: talk@openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas

Being a closed way with area=yes does not mean they aren't connected to the 
underlying ways: I don't think router be bothered by this.
Yves

Le 16 août 2018 02:14:49 GMT+02:00, David Fox  a 
écrit :

Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without attaching 
them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for them.
Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area.


On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik  wrote:


Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As blocks can 
be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be allowed, the same as 
in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, currently we have 3,9k of 
barrier=block areas in database.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock

Block examples:
http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif
http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg

Barriers with mapping as area allowed
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge
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Re: [OSM-talk] AI detecting of buildings Idle thoughts

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 16 August 2018, john whelan wrote:
> Could this be used to detect villages and towns which have not yet
> been mapped.
>
> If something could drop some sort of marker where it thinks a cluster
> of buildings are then we could use overpass to pull them into JOSM
> and map them as places, landuse=residential, village or whatever.

As you might already imagine reality is way ahead of you - for example 
someone has recently been dumping a whole bunch of garbage exactly like 
this in eastern Congo:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61401087
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/614459980

From a purely technical point of view if it wasn't littering OSM this 
would just be droll.

Verifiability my ass...

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Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas

[Yves]

Being a closed way with area=yes does not mean they aren't connected to the 
underlying ways: I don't think router be bothered by this.
Yves 

Le 16 août 2018 02:14:49 GMT+02:00, David Fox  a 
écrit :
>Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without
>attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for
>them.
>Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area.
>
>On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik  wrote:
>
>
>
>Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As
>blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be
>allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway,
>currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database.
>
>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock
>
>
>Block examples:
>
>http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif
>
>http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg
>
>
>Barriers with mapping as area allowed
>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall 
>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge
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