Re: [OSM-talk] Strange location reading

[John Eldredge]

This particular rest stop didn't have a cafe, but it did have an office, so 
it seemed likely to me that the office might have a WiFi router for use by 
state employees.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On September 28, 2016 5:21:59 AM Michael Collinson <m...@ayeltd.biz> wrote:


On 28/09/16 09:59, Warin wrote:

On 28-Sep-16 04:44 PM, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

On 27.09.16 21:51, John Eldredge wrote:

This past weekend, I made a long road trip. At one point, while in a
highway rest stop, I checked Google Maps to see how far I had come.
To my surprise, it showed me at a different rest stop, about 200
miles from my actual location. I suspect that my phone couldn't get
a good GPS reading, and was relying on the WiFi ID from the rest
area office. The other rest area was probably using the same SSID.

I didn't think to launch OSMand for comparison, but I suspect it
would have given me the same bogus results, as the choice of whether
to use WiFi, cell tower, GPS, or a combination, to determine your
location is set in the system settings, not inside the mapping
applications.


GPS signal is not influenced by clouds, rain, and snow. The GPS
signal frequency of about 1575mhz was chosen expressly because it is
a "window" in the weather as far as signal propagation is concerned
[1]. However a coating of water, snow, or ice on a smartphone or on a
car may block GPS signal. A coating of water, even a fairly thin one
is NOT the same as raindrops.


So if one is outside and a device is dry, the GPS reading should be
correct no matter what is the actual weather. Otherwise it makes
sense to restart the device, or change it if an incorrect GPS
location reading persists.


John .. could you have the GPS function on the phone turned off? I
usually have mine turned off to save battery power .. for use as a
phone. There is a GPS Status app that I use to check various sensors
.. including what the GPS is doing, suggest you use it .. that is an
android app ... apple should have something similar.


Do these rest stops have cafes that are part of a chain? They might have
moved a wifi access point and your app is reporting a non-satellite
position based on that. I have seen that happen.

Mike


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Strange location reading

[John Eldredge]

This past weekend, I made a long road trip. At one point, while in a 
highway rest stop, I checked Google Maps to see how far I had come. To my 
surprise, it showed me at a different rest stop, about 200 miles from my 
actual location. I suspect that my phone couldn't get a good GPS reading, 
and was relying on the WiFi ID from the rest area office. The other rest 
area was probably using the same SSID.


I didn't think to launch OSMand for comparison, but I suspect it would have 
given me the same bogus results, as the choice of whether to use WiFi, cell 
tower, GPS, or a combination, to determine your location is set in the 
system settings, not inside the mapping applications.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-us] Gosh ... something about mapping ...

[John Eldredge]

Non-motorized vehicles refers to vehicles that neither have a motor of 
their own or are towed or propelled by a motorized vehicle. Examples would 
be horse-drawn carriages, nonmotorized rickshaws, carts pulled by 
pedestrians, etc.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On December 1, 2015 8:38:29 AM Elliott Plack  wrote:


Ben,

I believe you're right, nice catch! "Motor bicycles and scooters: Mopeds
should be included with motor-driven cycles (motor bicycles) in the States"
(
http://mrf.org/library2/index.php/legislation-language/definitions/definition-motorcycle/fhwa-reclassification-of-motorcycles/
)

Additionally the one about "Non-Motorized" vehicles is somewhat confusing
and I don't think that I've ever seen it used. A bicycle is non-motorized,
but so is the trailer on a truck. What does it mean?

Elliott

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 9:23 AM Ben Miller  wrote:


I'm not familiar with the MUTCD, and a little Googling didn't get me any
clarification, but I'm guessing that "motor-driven cycles" refers to mopeds
and such, not to motorcycles.


On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:21 AM Simon Poole  wrote:


To give us all a break from the usual political machinations at this
time of year I've drawn up the following table


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/US_MUTCD_exclusionary_signs_to_OSM_access

The context is the work I've been doing on
https://github.com/simonpoole/beautified-JOSM-preset which is the
default preset for Vespucci http://vespucci.io/ (obviously on mobile
devices being able to touch an icon is preferable to typing).

Any opinions on the mappings, and what would you consider signs that you
frequently map?

Feedback and patches welcome!

Simon


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


--
Elliott Plack
http://elliottplack.me



--
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Gosh ... something about mapping ...

[John Eldredge]

Interstate highways (motorways, in UK terms) in the eastern USA often ban 
motor-driven cycles, bicycles, and other low-speed traffic. Mopeds are 
required to have a governor that limits them to a top speed of 25 miles per 
hour. In return, they don't require a driver's license to operate.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On December 2, 2015 3:33:15 AM Simon Poole  wrote:


Well ... the definitions are very fuzzy  (this is just so that you are
aware that there is potential for conflict): mopeds* are in general just
low displacement motorcycles, historically with pedals , but that is
typically no longer a legal requirement. For example there are scooters
that fall in this class. Mofas on the other hand, where the class
exists, typically have a requirement for pedals (adding pedelecs in to
the mix just makes things more complicated so leaving that away for now).

Obviously a moped without pedals is fairly dead when the motor isn't
running :-)

Simon

* just to confuse things in Germany it is colloquially quite common to
refer to any motorcycle as "moped" (even my 1300cc beemer)

Am 02.12.2015 um 10:13 schrieb Paul Johnson:

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Simon Poole > wrote:


I've changed the relevant tags to moped=no. Any opinion on if
mopeds would be included in "motor vehicles"? I don't think I've
ever seen a mofa in the states (I find people on Vespas in the
states already fairly brave) but what about pedelecs and similar?


A moped would qualify as both a motor vehicle and a bicycle, which it
is (and whether or not it can use bicycle lanes and cycleways) is
determined by whether or not the motor is running.


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us





--
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

[John Eldredge]

Also agreed. The existing latitude/longitude system has the advantage of 
being an international standard, supported by hundreds of different maps 
and mapping devices, not to mention the GPS satellite system.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On November 22, 2015 8:53:12 AM Colin Smale  wrote:




On 2015-11-22 15:47, Dave F. wrote:


On 22/11/2015 14:32, Colin Smale wrote:


I just said "w3w exists, what could/should we do?"


The consensus appears to be "Nothing"


Agreed.

--colin


--
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-us] San Diego Address Import Update

[John Eldredge]

The definition of city varies from state to state. In Virginia, for 
example, a city is at the same jurisdictional level as a county. It is not 
part of a county, even if completely surrounded by the county.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On November 9, 2015 11:50:09 PM Tod Fitch  wrote:




On Nov 9, 2015, at 8:42 PM, Richard Welty  wrote:

maybe but i would do some more research before making an assumption.
i'm aware of many postal city addresses that are in different counties
than the
"real" cities and i believe there are at least 4 cases where postal delivery
crosses state lines.



What is a “city” in US specific OSM terms?

I prefer a postal city definition as that is the most useful for routing 
purposes which I feel is the primary use of address data in OSM. Or are we 
dealing with some other concept of addr:city?


Using Pine Valley, California, as have been my examples for other posts in 
this thread, I see the administrative boundary for the city San Diego is 
probably 30 miles away: The locations are neither within the boundary nor 
in the postal delivery area for the city of San Diego. To me that clearly 
indicates the addr:city=“San Diego" tags is wrong.


So what value to use for the addr:city tag values? There is an 
administrative boundary around the area that looks like it is from the 
original Tiger import with the name of “Pine Valley” as a “locality”. There 
is a post office there with a “Pine Valley” sign on the building. The ZIP 
codes that were imported on the change set for this area all are set to 
91962. When I look up 91962 on the USPS official web site it returns “Pine 
Valley, CA” and only “Pine Valley, CA”. The USPS result page also says 
"Please use the default city whenever possible” which indicates they think 
everyone should use “Pine Valley”. There is no county, state or national 
border near by to confuse the issue.


Looking at adjacent “towns” (may only be census designated areas) I see the 
same thing. Just look at Guatay, CA a little west on the old main highway 
and you will see the same thing.


So what “more research before making an assumption” should be done in this 
area? I suspect a theoretical problem with a hypothetical general case is 
be being brought up when what I see in the data is a pretty straight 
forward issue of bad data that can be corrected.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us




___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.36.0

[John Eldredge]

A lot of pharmacies in the USA serve as general merchandise stores, as well 
as selling prescription and nonprescription medicines, bandages, etc. The 
Walgreens Drugstore near my home sells food, cosmetics, toys, cell phone 
accessories, household tools, and many other items.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 31, 2015 8:34:44 AM Greg Troxel  wrote:


Martin Koppenhoefer  writes:


sent from a phone


Am 31.10.2015 um 00:22 schrieb Philip Barnes :

Pharmacists don't technically sell medicines they dispense it and
sometimes collect a flat rate fee, if you are of working age and live
in England.


It's quite different in the US.   Besides paying for prescription
medication (often with insurance, but still) a place called a pharmacy
will have a variety of non-prescription medication and various
associated stuff (bandages).

So shop makes more sense than office, and here office makes no to little
sense at all.

I realize there's shop=chemist, but that seem to be a uk/europe vs US thing.

However, the real issue is that the tags in use should be rendered.  If
a tag is not used much and it's dropped, that's fine, but using the
stylesheet to force retagging of things in wide use would be
inappropriate.  I haven't seen the underlying data on tag frequency
brought into the debate; arguably that should be the core of the
discussion.


THEY do sell some stuff as well, but so do the library and post office.



there is surely a huge difference in volume between the stuff a
pharmacy sells besides dispensing medicine and the stuff a library or
a post office sell, making it more of an edge case, at least around
here (and that's still Europe). Anyway, I don't oppose
amenity=pharmacy as the preferred tag.


In the US, a pharmacy basically sells things, including some things that
require a special license to sell.   library and post office do sell
some things, but are not primarily shops in that sense.




--
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-us] Desert wash that is also vehicle track or path?

[John Eldredge]

The two-relations approach would also handle any points where the roadway 
and stream diverge. For example, if the stream goes over falls, even falls 
only a meter high, vehicles will have to diverge onto the bank to go around 
the drop-off, not over it.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 28, 2015 6:33:23 PM Greg Troxel  wrote:


Tod Fitch  writes:


My inclination is to use one way but that gives an issue with the
name=* tag. In the case of the Cherry Wash Trail there is two names
(“Cherry Wash” and “Cherry Wash Trail”).

My thought is to use one way with the following tags:

highway=path
name=Cherry Wash Trail
alt_name=Cherry Wash
waterway=stream
intermittent=yes


Without thinking too much:

  one way for the feature

  a relation with one member for the trail
  a relation with one member for the stream

That seems cleaner and gets the names right.



--
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us




___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[John Eldredge]

Oh, I have certainly seen drivers do that (my first-ever traffic accident 
was when the cars in the oncoming lanes stopped to let me make a turn, and 
then I was hit by a car driving down the shoulder). The police consider it 
reckless driving, however, and will cite you for it.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 16, 2015 8:23:46 PM Mike  Dupont 
<jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote:



Here in NJ they pass you on the right on these lanes, it is totally insane.

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 4:29 PM, John Eldredge <j...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:

My experience elsewhere is that shoulders are not considered legal driving
lanes for motor vehicles, except under special circumstances, such as a
construction zone where a normal driving lane has been shut down. People who
try to use the shoulder as a driving lane receive traffic citations.

--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

On October 12, 2015 11:05:12 PM Jack Burke <burke...@gmail.com> wrote:


Wait, question:

Are these shoulder lanes under discussion *only* for bicycles, or for
motor vehicles as well?

--jack


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
wrote:


Mike,

I have not seen the Shoulder or Lanes tags in wide use yet. I use the
cycleway tags on the highway line way to denote bike lanes that are part of
the road surface, as it seems your case is. (cycleway:right=lane). Though in
this case it is arguable if the shoulder is a lane. What is certain is that
most cyclists treat shoulders as such.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway

I'm interested in routing and the Open Source Routing Map project. Cycle
and ped routing is especially interesting to me as an athlete, and so I
looked on the ORSM backend for clues on how they're handling shared lanes
and such. Looks like one of these tagging combos will work:
https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/8f8bd05f83fa2ccc542c2c44761f548a1e8b7579/features/bicycle/cycleway.feature

Elliott

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:15 PM Mike Dupont
<jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote:


Hi there,
This road cr 546 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/566939) and
many others here in the area has extra wide  wide shoulders that
people use for walking or biking. How do you want to tag them as such
so that we can also use that for routing?

Here is a table of the segments with lane information

http://lawrencetwp.com/documents/planning/Route546BikewayBicycleCompatibilityMatrix.pdf

I see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes what are your thoughts on a
detailed tagging for this information.


thanks
mike

--
James Michael DuPont
Kansas Linux Fest http://kansaslinuxfest.us
Free/Libre Open Source and Open Knowledge Association of Kansas
http://openkansas.us
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org
Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us





--
James Michael DuPont
Kansas Linux Fest http://kansaslinuxfest.us
Free/Libre Open Source and Open Knowledge Association of Kansas
http://openkansas.us
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org
Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us




___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [OSM-talk] Activity statistics per city (or region)

[John Eldredge]

If someone changes their user name, do change logs from before the name 
change still show the old user name, or do the change logs link to a user 
table, and thus show the new name?


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 27, 2015 5:26:29 AM Philip Barnes  wrote:


On Tue Oct 27 10:05:04 2015 GMT, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:

Þann 27.10.2015 07:09, Paul Norman reit:
> On 10/26/2015 8:24 AM, Fabian Schmidt wrote:
>> It is rare but there are users who renamed their account, so there are
>> more user names than numeric user ids.
>
> No. Although users have renamed their account, this doesn't increase
> the number of user names, it changes one of them.
>
> Additionally, user IDs are a PostgreSQL serial so there can be gaps,
> and spam users are sometimes completely deleted.

I'm guessing he meant that there are more user names in the changelogs
than actually exist, if you are parsing changelogs over several time
periods. I'm guessing the user name change is reflected instantly in the
changelog after renaming.

I did change my username as my preferred username became available around 
the licence change time.


My early edits, made under my old username trig222, show as my present 
username trigpoint.


OSMhelp and the wiki do still guide me towards trig222 however.

Phil (trigpoint)
--
Sent from my Jolla
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[John Eldredge]

My experience elsewhere is that shoulders are not considered legal driving 
lanes for motor vehicles, except under special circumstances, such as a 
construction zone where a normal driving lane has been shut down. People 
who try to use the shoulder as a driving lane receive traffic citations.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 12, 2015 11:05:12 PM Jack Burke  wrote:


Wait, question:

Are these shoulder lanes under discussion *only* for bicycles, or for motor
vehicles as well?

--jack


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Elliott Plack 
wrote:


Mike,

I have not seen the Shoulder or Lanes tags in wide use yet. I use the
cycleway tags on the highway line way to denote bike lanes that are part of
the road surface, as it seems your case is. (cycleway:right=lane). Though
in this case it is arguable if the shoulder is a lane. What is certain is
that most cyclists treat shoulders as such.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway

I'm interested in routing and the Open Source Routing Map project. Cycle
and ped routing is especially interesting to me as an athlete, and so I
looked on the ORSM backend for clues on how they're handling shared lanes
and such. Looks like one of these tagging combos will work:
https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/8f8bd05f83fa2ccc542c2c44761f548a1e8b7579/features/bicycle/cycleway.feature

Elliott

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:15 PM Mike Dupont <
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote:


Hi there,
This road cr 546 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/566939) and
many others here in the area has extra wide  wide shoulders that
people use for walking or biking. How do you want to tag them as such
so that we can also use that for routing?

Here is a table of the segments with lane information

http://lawrencetwp.com/documents/planning/Route546BikewayBicycleCompatibilityMatrix.pdf

I see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes what are your thoughts on a
detailed tagging for this information.


thanks
mike

--
James Michael DuPont
Kansas Linux Fest http://kansaslinuxfest.us
Free/Libre Open Source and Open Knowledge Association of Kansas
http://openkansas.us
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org
Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us






--
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Generating list of interesting places

[John Eldredge]

It would seem that each user would need to provide a checklist of what they 
find interesting, unless you restricted it to the most common topics of 
interest.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 9, 2015 3:34:56 AM Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:


Is there already some tool that for given area generates list of
interesting places (museums, caves, old trees, famous tourism
attractions, monuments, etc etc) based on OSM data?


___
dev mailing list
d...@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 134, Issue 11

[John Eldredge]

Since we aren't mind-readers, you need to say what you want help with.

--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 7, 2015 11:53:10 AM kassy taylor  wrote:


Help

-Original Message-
From: "talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org" 
Sent: ‎10/‎7/‎2015 6:15 AM
To: "talk@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: talk Digest, Vol 134, Issue 11

Send talk mailing list submissions to
talk@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: User WJtW - railway track counts (Michael Reichert)
   2. Re: User WJtW - railway track counts (Richard Mann)
   3. Re: User WJtW - railway track counts (Colin Smale)
   4. Re: User WJtW - railway track counts (Colin Smale)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 10:57:49 +0200
From: Michael Reichert 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] User WJtW - railway track counts
Message-ID: <5614de8d.3000...@gmx.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

Am 2015-10-07 um 10:24 schrieb Richard Mann:

Putting tracks=1 on multiple parallel tracks is also potentially
misleading. It's a method of tagging that's been superseded by drawing each
line separately.

So I took to adding passenger_lines=N, to avoid a compatability conflict. I
only did N=1 or N>=4, though.

I'd suggest converting the tagging to tracks=1+passenger_lines=2.


You can find the tag detail=track on lots of tracks in South-West
Germany instead of tracks=1.

Best regards

Michael


--
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: 



--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 10:11:46 +0100
From: Richard Mann 
To: Michael Reichert 
Cc: osm 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] User WJtW - railway track counts
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I added track_detail=yes, to achieve much the same end. I haven't looked at
railway tagging for a while, though.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 



--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:19:07 +0200
From: Colin Smale 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] User WJtW - railway track counts
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



What is "track_detail=yes"? I can't find it anywhere in the (English)
wiki...

//colin

On 2015-10-07 11:11, Richard Mann wrote:

I added track_detail=yes, to achieve much the same end. I haven't looked at 
railway tagging for a while, though.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 



--

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:20:57 +0200
From: Colin Smale 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] User WJtW - railway track counts
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



Thanks for contacting DWG, Michael.

It is not limited to tracks=2 by the way - I have seen examples of four
tracks, all with tracks=4...

--colin

On 2015-10-07 10:56, Michael Reichert wrote:


Hi.

Am 2015-10-07 um 10:03 schrieb Colin Smale:


I am not sure it would be vandalism - It is more likely a
misunderstanding of the intention of the tracks=* tag. But it is very
damaging, and potentially hard to revert as this has been going on for
some time and newer edits may have been made. It may need something like
this:

* Get all changesets from WJtW
* 

Re: [OSM-talk] Buildings on abandoned railways (via Overpass) (was: Re: THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject)

[John Eldredge]

In the case of Nashville, Tennessee, an Interstate bypass, I-440, that 
loops about one-third of the way around the city core, deliberately made 
use of a no-longer-used railway right-of-way to reduce land purchase costs. 
If anyone were to go back and map that railroad now, the entire route would 
overlap the motorway.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On September 13, 2015 7:59:54 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
 wrote:





sent from a phone


Am 13.09.2015 um 10:00 schrieb mmd :

out of curiosity I was wondering a bit, if there are lots of abandoned
railways with plenty of buildings in the way, i.e. is this really a
widespread issue?



I would expect more dismantled railways to be built over than abandoned 
rails. It still happens, e.g. in the city centre of Stuttgart, Germany, 
around 100 hectares of rail are currently covered with buildings:

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahmenplan_Stuttgart_21


cheers
Martin


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] old_name

[John Eldredge]

There are likely some currently-living scholars, tour guides, etc. who 
think of Dublin by all of the old names you mentioned, so, by your logic, 
all of these old names should be included in tags.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On September 8, 2015 10:59:17 AM moltonel 3x Combo  wrote:


On 08/09/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

Am 08.09.2015 um 14:46 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny :
But I would not add old_name that is currently completely unused.


there's one area where old names will be used for sure: old documents,
books, film, signs, ...

There is no such thing like a currently  completely unused old name,
otherwise it wouldn't be an old name.
Or maybe I don't understand "currently". Everything I may encounter now?


If you go that route, there's no limit to how far back an old name can
go. That'd mean that we should add, for example, all of [Dublin's old
names][1] to the osm object, since they are well documented. It would
be a silly thing to do, as these names definitely are not a current
property of Dublin.

IMHO the cuting point should be that the name is used by a living
person, with "used" defined as "when he thinks (out of some document
context) about that place, he (at least sometimes) thinks of it using
that name". It sounds really convoluted when you try a formal
definition, but I hope the ide is clear ? If some joking friend offers
to meet me in "Lutèce" I'll know in which city to go, but I certainly
don't expect OSM to know.


[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Toponymy

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift

[John Eldredge]

I agree that blue is the logical color for mapping waterways, and should be 
reserved for that purpose.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On August 22, 2015 5:11:10 AM Daniel Koć daniel@koć.pl wrote:


W dniu 22.08.2015 1:47, Richard Mann napisał(a):

I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a critical
problem as the invisible green trunk roads. Adding one


For me the problem is the same - blue looks like a river and I don't
know why at least some of UK-ers likes to see the London area roads like
this (I mean: having to spot two most important road types!):

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/51.3289/-0.0673

Its not that UK style doesn't work for the rest of the world, it also
doesn't work for UK on OSM, because we have much more data visible than
other maps.

That's not against this or any other local styling - I never
underestimate the power of old habits and I'd like the people to have
what they want on the output, no matter why they want it, but it's just
not going to happen as long as default style has a mission to be
universal.

--
The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags
down [A. Cohen]

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads

[John Eldredge]

Not precisely flat, but with very shallow grades, by definition. Regular 
railroad engines (as opposed to cog railway engines) can't climb steep 
slopes. So, if you are looking for a route without steep grades, a former 
railway is a natural choice.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On August 18, 2015 8:28:47 AM Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:


Hi,

On 08/18/2015 03:21 PM, Richard wrote:

Especially as many railways come with more or less dense key:ele tagging
they are much more reliable to derive height profile information than any
other data we have.


Do I understand you correctly: We should map abandoned railways because
we lack a good source of elevation data?

That sounds like a very strange proposal to me. Perhaps the wiki
documenting the abandoned value should be amended by not to be used
for abandoned mountain railways, because cycle routers will prefer
routing along abandoned railway lines under the assumption that they
must be flat?

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Marking tight corners

[John Eldredge]

One risk factor that the two-dimensional geometry of OSM won't show is how 
a curve is banked. Unbanked curves are common, and I have encountered some 
curves that are banked with the low side of the curve towards the outside, 
very risky under wet conditions.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On July 29, 2015 7:23:14 PM Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:


On 30/07/2015 5:45 AM, Subhodip Biswas wrote:
 Hi,

 On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Mateusz Konieczny
 matkoni...@gmail.com mailto:matkoni...@gmail.com wrote:

 Geometry of road is already providing this information, there is
 probably no need to duplicate this in tags.


 Thanks, will it be possible provide a link to the wiki that explains
 geometry of the road. Also if not a problem is it possible to attach
 angle/decreasing/increasing nature of the corner? Sorry if I missed
 something.


 On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 14:11:50 -0500
 Subhodip Biswas subhodipbis...@gmail.com
 mailto:subhodipbis...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hello,
 
  I was wondering if there is some tags or is it possible to create
  some tags that marks tight corners.
 
  The reason is as a motorcyclist I may want to know the danger ahead
  spoken to me through a navigation app (e.g. navmii).  Even in well
  marked area like in the US it is not always possible to see the the
  corner up ahead and the posted speed limit for it (debatable).
 
 


Zoom in!
  If there are enough nodes you should be able to see how sharp the
corner is ..
I use this is fog! You are travelling very slow and cannot see too far
.. the GPS map gives you more than you can see.

-
There are speed warnings - usually for fixed speed cameras. And some use
this for land mine warnings. No reason why the same method could not be
used for corner speeds ... but this is not part of the map but separate
POI.



--
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

[John Eldredge]

In some cases, the navigation path may be different from the named 
waterway, such as when locks and canals are used to bypass waterfalls or 
rapids.  In the case of reservoirs and lakes, some areas may be too shallow 
for navigation, so the actual navigation route may not always be the 
shortest path between the inlet and outlet points.



--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On July 27, 2015 2:25:54 PM Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote:


On Mo, Jul 27, 2015 at 08:08:22 +0100, Lester Caine wrote:
 On 27/07/15 19:56, Christoph Hormann wrote:
  In the case where a stream flows into a reservoir , and then a stream
   (with the same name) also flows out of that reservoir, should a
   linear way be drawn through the reservoir to connect the two streams
   (the reservoir is currently represented by its own closed way tagged
   natural=water, water=reservoir)?

  Yes.

 Although a height difference between in and out might indicate a weir or
 other obstruction may well indicate that a route is non-navigable? The
 outflow from a dam may have the same name, but have no use as a through
 route?

This is more about the water flow than about being navigable by a ship.

Jochen
--
Jochen Topf  joc...@remote.org  http://www.jochentopf.com/  +49-351-31778688

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[John Eldredge]

The claim that the maps are only for the benefit of Westerners implies that 
non-Western people never travel to or trade with areas beyond their 
immediate neighborhoods.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On June 14, 2015 07:58:51 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:


Hi,

On 06/14/2015 02:12 PM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
 I find this point of view to be astounding in its arrogance and indeed
 blatant colonialistic spirit.

Harsh words.

In the final paragraph of your blog post, you write:

In addition the locals are not the only people who will need to use a
map. Tourists, passers-by, people moving their goods or offering their
services also need maps of places where they go. Everyone needs a map
even if not everyone wants to make it or use it.

But this is exactly the criticism we're facing - bluntly put:
Westerners need maps of places so they can conquer them by selling
their products and services.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[John Eldredge]

We need to encourage local mapping, but large-scale disasters create a need 
for immediate maps, which, in some cases, means outside help is needed.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On June 14, 2015 13:35:09 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:


On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 7:52 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote:

  What about in the situations where locals would like to make their own
 map but this is not financially feasible? If we are creating truly a free
 map of the entire world it is important to figure out how not to just make
 a map of the privileged. Should lack of access to internet and technology
 be a reason someone can't contribute to this map?


So what about supporting efforts like one laptop per child, to seed
technology that would never be
developed locally.  And with those tools, see what people create.



--
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

[John Eldredge]

In urban areas, it is common to have mixed-use buildings as well, with 
retail or services on the ground floor and residential units on upper floors.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On June 3, 2015 7:13:39 PM Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:


On 4/06/2015 9:48 AM, pmailkeey . wrote:



 A value of residential here  seems to need a key to identify whether
 it relates to a building or landuse. However, you suggest
 building=residential as possibly being redundant. In fact, I'd turn
 this on its head and make landuse=residential (with the exception of
 moles) redundant. The only residential landuse is directly under a
 building but by using landuse=residential, such areas cover gardens
 and highways - which are clearly not residences.


No.
Landuse - a facility (what it gets used for)
The governmental authority here says an area is for residential use ..
They do that before there are any houses thus it is not just the area
under a building.

building - a physical item (what is there on the ground)
A building that is used for residences has a particular set of features
that distinguish it for other building types e.g. a mall.

--
I use my garden! I go out there and read, email .. even do OSM ... in
the garden.
The street in front of my home gets used by the kids to play soccer,
tennis ...

The land use is 'residential' .. even in the garden. And the neighbours
swimming pool.
The house is also residential.

I and my neighbours reside here - we use all of it.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue

[John Eldredge]

Yes, I would class this as a rendering error on Craigslist's part, not a 
data error on OSM's part. It sounds like the code is checking for the 
presence of the oneway tag, where it should be checking for the presence of 
oneway=yes.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On May 31, 2015 2:05:06 AM Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:


After a long stretch of oneway=yes, I might indeed tag oneway=no
just to keep someone from assuming I'd made a mistake.  oneway=no is a
declaration,
as opposed to a lack of information.



--
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk