Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[Shaun McDonald]

Thanks for the heads up.

They’ve also posted a blog post about it: 
https://blog.mapillary.com/news/2020/06/18/Mapillary-joins-Facebook.html 


Supposedly no change from a mapping perspective. Commercial use now allowed for 
free.

Shaun

> On 18 Jun 2020, at 23:32, Sérgio V.  wrote:
> 
> https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-deals-mapillary/facebook-acquires-crowdsourced-mapping-company-mapillary-idUKKBN23P3N6
>  
> 
> 
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs 
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Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Brian,

Unfortunately due to a combination of proprietary code, and linking of the code 
with some of other systems, releasing the code isn’t possible.

Shaun

> On 6 Dec 2019, at 13:18, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> 
> Hi Shaun
> 
> Would it be possible for itoworld to let us ( the UK chapter) have the source 
> code for the road names feature - we're keen to replicate it using the new 
> source of OS road names from OS Open Roads and we're hoping that other than 
> dealing with a new datasource the comparison logic and rendering backend 
> could be re-used. It might lessen the development effort and it might be 
> easier to get some volunteers.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Brian
> 
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 10:51, Shaun McDonald  <mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:26, SK53 > <mailto:sk53@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> The big difference of the old Locator layer from ITO is that it displayed 
>> the name. The other tool which used OS locator is Robert Scott's OSL Musical 
>> Chairs <https://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map>. Both suffer 
>> because OS Locator was last released in 2016.
> 
> The OS Locator data having last been released in 2016, with no plans to 
> update to the OS Open Roads mentioned below, and the majority of the UK 
> having street names. Combined with no new streets ever going to come up, and 
> demolished/removed street names needing to have the not:name forever more, a 
> hardware failure, were all contributory factors for the service being 
> discontinued.
> 
>> 
>> One way to get potentially missing names is to use OS Open Roads. These are 
>> big shape files, so its probably best to cut them down using something like 
>> ogr2ogr, or QGIS. The file can be pulled in as a custom layer in iD, 
>> Potlatch and as a standard layer in JOSM. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:30, Jez Nicholson > <mailto:jez.nichol...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM and 
>> highlighted the differences.
>> 
>> The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed 
>> streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and 
>> some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have 
>> road names yet and auxiliary service roads.
>> 
>> I'd like to see a new tool be builti'd also like someone to fund it 
>> being built and sustain it either through a grant or donated work.
>> 
> 
> We at Ito are also hopeful that the community would implement new more up to 
> date tools with a more modern look.
> 
> Shaun McDonald
> Ito World
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Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:26, SK53  wrote:
> 
> The big difference of the old Locator layer from ITO is that it displayed the 
> name. The other tool which used OS locator is Robert Scott's OSL Musical 
> Chairs <https://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map>. Both suffer 
> because OS Locator was last released in 2016.

The OS Locator data having last been released in 2016, with no plans to update 
to the OS Open Roads mentioned below, and the majority of the UK having street 
names. Combined with no new streets ever going to come up, and 
demolished/removed street names needing to have the not:name forever more, a 
hardware failure, were all contributory factors for the service being 
discontinued.

> 
> One way to get potentially missing names is to use OS Open Roads. These are 
> big shape files, so its probably best to cut them down using something like 
> ogr2ogr, or QGIS. The file can be pulled in as a custom layer in iD, Potlatch 
> and as a standard layer in JOSM. 



> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:30, Jez Nicholson  wrote:
> 
> As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM and 
> highlighted the differences.
> 
> The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed 
> streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and 
> some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have 
> road names yet and auxiliary service roads.
> 
> I'd like to see a new tool be builti'd also like someone to fund it being 
> built and sustain it either through a grant or donated work.
> 

We at Ito are also hopeful that the community would implement new more up to 
date tools with a more modern look.

Shaun McDonald
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Re: [Talk-GB] New Ghosts Set and Survey Me Auto-Location Feature

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 7 Aug 2018, at 10:53, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:
> 
> Philip Barnes wrote:
>> Recently new blue branded co-op shops have started to appear, 
>> some have changed and at least one has opened in direct 
>> competition with an existing Mid-counties.
> 
> Midcounties are also adopting the "new" cloverleaf Co-op logo in many
> places, while their Chipping Norton shop, curiously, uses the Co-operatives
> UK logo. There's so much overlap (particularly between Midcounties and the
> Co-operative Group) that they really need to be surveyed to find the
> operator, which I agree would be useful information.
> 
> Shipston-on-Stour has two Co-ops literally three doors away from each other
> - one Midcounties, one Co-operative Group (ex-Somerfield).
> 

There’s also a big overlap in places like Edinburgh due to Co-op buying the 
Somerfield stores several years ago. This means that some newer stores accept 
the loyalty cards, whilst the older ones don’t.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] New Ghosts Set and Survey Me Auto-Location Feature

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 6 Aug 2018, at 12:04, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:
> 
> (It looks like the East of England Co-op also operates a few pharmacies. I
> haven't investigated further.)
> 

To confirm East of England Co-op do have their own brand pharmacies.
https://www.eastofengland.coop/pharmacy

Shaun

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Re: [Talk-GB] OS Locator November 2016

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 6 Feb 2017, at 20:35, Robert Scott  > wrote:
> 
> On Monday 06 February 2017 20:27:16 Robert Scott wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> Does anyone have a copy of OS OpenData Locator's November 2015 release still 
>> kicking around anywhere?
> 
> Ok, I acknowledge I said 2016 in the subject, but 2015 in the body. I mean of 
> course 2015.
> 


I've got some old copies of the OS open data:

http://shaunmcdonald.me.uk/os_data/os_locator/2015-11/gazlco_gb.zip 


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Re: [Talk-GB] OS Locator November 2016

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 6 Feb 2017, at 20:35, Robert Scott  > wrote:
> 
> On Monday 06 February 2017 20:27:16 Robert Scott wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> Does anyone have a copy of OS OpenData Locator's November 2015 release still 
>> kicking around anywhere?
> 
> Ok, I acknowledge I said 2016 in the subject, but 2015 in the body. I mean of 
> course 2015.
> 


I've got some old copies of the OS open data:

http://shaunmcdonald.me.uk/os_data/os_locator/2015-11/gazlco_gb.zip 


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Re: [Talk-GB] UK website

[Shaun McDonald]

The openstreetmap.co.uk  and openstreetmap.org.uk 
 domains could be an option, currently in OSMF 
ownership, as listed on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Domain_names 


Shaun

> On 31 Dec 2016, at 12:53, Rob Nickerson  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have created a very simple wordpress site for the new UK company. If anyone 
> has a suitable URL to direct at the site please let me know. (Dennis is 
> looking at pointing the osmuk.org  url but others welcome).
> 
> Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping dangerous - but valid - routes

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Stuart,

I'd keep it in, ensure other object information such as the number of lanes is 
included within the data. Then the routing engine can take account of the 
additional information, such as avoiding, but not exempting (thus creating 
islands that you can't walk out of) at crossing points that cross 3 lanes of 
traffic. You can also present a warning that there is an uncontrolled crossing 
and you need to cross 3 lanes of traffic if this is the only suitable route.

Shaun

> On 5 Dec 2016, at 16:12, Stuart Reynolds  
> wrote:
> 
> Greetings
> 
> At Stirling Corner, on the A1 in Barnet, there is a cycle way (hence also 
> available for pedestrians) that goes around the outside of the roundabout 
> (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/78315291 
> ). A cursory glance at satellite 
> mapping shows it to be well defined, and marked. But it will also highlight 
> that where you cross the southbound A1 to the south of the roundabout (and 
> likewise the northbound A1 to the north) it is highly dangerous. You have to 
> cross three lanes of traffic, and there is always a flow of some sort, either 
> from the A1 or from the side roads.
> 
> What is the right course of action here - leave it in, because it reflects 
> what is on the ground, or take it out on safety grounds. This isn’t an idle 
> question - a user of my website has stated that it is dangerous to use, and 
> has asked me to remove it. My conclusion was to leave it in, but as it cuts 
> to what it is that is being produced here - an accurate cartographic 
> representation of the world, regardless, or something a little different - I 
> thought I would ask for views.
> 
> Regards,
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk down?

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Robert,

I'd seen the alert that it was down at the weekend, however wasn't in a 
position at the time to get to a computer and fix it.

I've now rebooted the machine and it's back. Thanks for the reminder to look 
into it.

Shaun

> On 3 Oct 2016, at 14:34, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is it just me, or is http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/ currently
> not working? It's been unresponsive for me for at least the last
> couple of days. Does anyone know who runs this instance and how to get
> in touch with them?
> 
> Robert.
> 
> -- 
> Robert Whittaker
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Postcodes

[Shaun McDonald]

I'm wondering if this FAQ is still up to date, which notes that the postcodes 
were computed in October 2012 and haven't been updated since. 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/FAQ#My_postcode_is_missing.2Fwrong_but_I.27ve_fixed_it_in_the_OSM_data._What_is_wrong.3F
 There are many duplicate tickets about postcodes in Trac and Github issue 
trackers.

I'd much prefer to load the OS open data as a separate list into Nominatim, 
otherwise it'll be a nightmare trying to update the OSM data when the next 
release of the OS open data comes out. Adding postcodes to specific buildings 
in OSM is still useful to produce more accurate geocoding and reverse geocoding 
results.

Shaun

> On 26 Sep 2016, at 09:39, Chris Hill  wrote:
> 
> Please do not add postcode centroids to the map. They are not real, do not 
> exist and do not belong in the OSM DB.
> 
> On 26 September 2016 09:01:38 BST, Gervase Markham  
> wrote:
> On 25/09/16 21:47, Owen Boswarva wrote:
>  I can't see any reason why there should be a problem using Code-Point
>  Open in OSM, now that Ordnance Survey has applied the Open Government
>  Licence in place of its own licence. If you read further down, the wiki
>  page gives examples of OSM projects that use Code-Point Open.
> 
> OK, that's good news. What's the quickest route to getting Nominatim to
> understand this data set? File a Nominatim bug to get the search engine
> to import the data set directly? Or add 500,000ish points to OSM itself
> with something like type = "postcode_centre"?
> 
> Gerv
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Max speed forward/backward

[Shaun McDonald]

ITO Map shows the split speed limits: 
http://product.itoworld.com/map/124?lon=-112.18642=33.53122=18 
<http://product.itoworld.com/map/124?lon=-112.18642=33.53122=18>

Shaun
(ITO World developer)
> On 6 Jul 2016, at 10:05, Hans De Kryger <hans.dekryge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/399867361#map=19/33.53112/-112.18568 
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/399867361#map=19/33.53112/-112.18568>
> 
> Regards,
> Hans
> 
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Shaun McDonald <sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk 
> <mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk>> wrote:
> Hi Hans,
> 
> Do you have an example that you have mapped?
> 
> Shaun
> 
>> On 5 Jul 2016, at 22:09, Hans De Kryger <hans.dekryge...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:hans.dekryge...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Paul.
>> 
>> There's a lot of split speed limits here in the valley (Arizona.) I've 
>> worked hard mapping quite a few. Would love for more services to show them.
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 5, 2016 2:41 AM, "Paul Johnson" <ba...@ursamundi.org 
>> <mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Hans De Kryger <hans.dekryge...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:hans.dekryge...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> ​Anyone know of any apps or services that display​ max speed 
>> forward/backward tags. I assume most don't know how to?
>> 
>> I know that Osmand will as I've seen it come up on some odd edge cases where 
>> sign placement is weird (normally Oklahoma doesn't do these split limits 
>> unless it's not feasible to signpost the limits in the same spot both 
>> directions).  Someone up towards Colorado should have more exact 
>> information, as split limits are routine in that state.
>> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Max speed forward/backward

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Hans,

Do you have an example that you have mapped?

Shaun
> On 5 Jul 2016, at 22:09, Hans De Kryger  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Paul.
> 
> There's a lot of split speed limits here in the valley (Arizona.) I've worked 
> hard mapping quite a few. Would love for more services to show them.
> 
> 
> On Jul 5, 2016 2:41 AM, "Paul Johnson"  > wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Hans De Kryger  > wrote:
> 
> 
> ​Anyone know of any apps or services that display​ max speed forward/backward 
> tags. I assume most don't know how to?
> 
> I know that Osmand will as I've seen it come up on some odd edge cases where 
> sign placement is weird (normally Oklahoma doesn't do these split limits 
> unless it's not feasible to signpost the limits in the same spot both 
> directions).  Someone up towards Colorado should have more exact information, 
> as split limits are routine in that state.
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 1 Jul 2016, at 16:38, Dennis Bauszus  wrote:
> 
> I have setup a wordpress site.
> 
> http://osmuk.org/ 
> 
> Please drop me a mail if you want to become an editor and start posting or an 
> administrator and help with the general layout.

I can recommend the Divi WordPress Theme which allows extremely flexible 
layouts to be easily created all in the GUI. 
http://www.elegantthemes.com/gallery/divi/ 


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Re: [Talk-GB] Assistance fixing wonky bits of London?

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Stuart,

Looking at the history, it looks like the name was changed 8 months ago 
incorrectly and should be changed back, similarly for the relation. 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/206072/history

It looks like the tags on the relation and linked node for the name need to be 
changed to the previous one. Nothing else in the changeset jumps out as being 
an issue, so could be some odd autocomplete issue.

Shaun

> On 13 Jan 2016, at 13:32, Stuart Reynolds  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I’ve come across some errors in London, but I’m not too sure about how to fix 
> them short of deleting them.
> 
> Node 469785651 is a bus stop (http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/469785651 
> ) as indeed is its partner 
> stop, node 469785652. However, rather than having the correct bus stop name 
> it is called Epsom Station and has a relation which appears to define it as a 
> platform of Epsom station. That is clearly wrong.
> 
> However, does this mean that something that should have been in Epsom has 
> been moved? I don’t really understand relations fully yet, and I’m unwilling 
> to just dive in and break something if the fix is to do something better or 
> different.
> 
> Also, what is the relationship between name=* and naptan:CommonName=*? The 
> latter I understand, but shouldn’t the two be the same?
> 
> Thanks
> Stuart
> 
> 
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east & anglia
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Abandoned buildings

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 5 Jan 2016, at 12:29, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 00:14:25 +0100
> John Doe  wrote:
> 
>> I tagged some abandoned building in my native city with
>> abandoned:building=yes (as wiki) and the building name but now i can't
>> search these ones with nominatim (no results) and none of these
>> appears on mapnik.
>> Is prefix abandoned before building=yes really correct?
> 
> "I tagged some abandoned building in my native city with
> abandoned:building=yes"
> 
> I think it is mistake. abandoned: prefix makes sense for things like
> shops where there is a fundamental difference between active shop (POI
> - it is possible to buy something there or provides some services).
> 
> abandoned:shop, abandoned:amenity is solely an orientation point.
> 
> In case of buildings there is no such fundamental difference between
> used and unused one.
> 

Where a shop has closed and all the fittings removed, usually ready for a new 
shop to move in, I use shop=vacant, and where appropriate building=retail.

I would only use an abandoned tag where the building is run down and would need 
significant repairs to bring back into use, or possibly where there have been 
squatters or it's falling down. Abandoned is a rather strong word to use.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] First UK/GB OpenStreetMap group meeting - 17th December at 8pm

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Brian,

Are you aware that 0800 numbers are now free from mobiles?
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/phones/2015/06/0800-numbers-now-free-to-call-from-mobiles

Shaun

> On 16 Dec 2015, at 23:06, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone
> 
> Calls from a mobile, the number is 0330 336 2206, and the passcode 33224. 
> Calls will cost the same as a call to an 01 or 02 landline. 
> 
> Calls from a landline, the number is 0800 22 90 900 (same passcode) which 
> will be free
> 
> Regards
> 
> Brian
> 
> On 16 December 2015 at 22:10, Harry Wood  > wrote:
> Thanks for making something happen Rob!
> 
> So this conference call is TOMORROW at 8pm.
> 
> I added those details to the wiki page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/UK 
> 
> But d'you have the dial-in details?
> 
> Harry
> 
> 
> 
> From: Rob Nickerson  >
> To: Talk-GB >
> Sent: Sunday, 6 December 2015, 19:25
> Subject: [Talk-GB] First UK/GB OpenStreetMap group meeting - 17th December
> at 8pm
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Early this year I published a survey asking about “a UK/GB OpenStreetMap
> group”. 101 people filled it in and many contacted me to say they liked the 
> idea. Encouraged by the this and my local
> Mappa Mercia group, we feel the time is right to start the group. To get us 
> going Wikimedia UK have kindly offered us their teleconference facility for
> our first meeting – 8pm on 17th December. I've used teleconferencing 
> facilities in the past for State of the Map 2013 and find that they work well 
> (no text/chat facility ensures that there is only one conversation going on - 
> the one being heard by everyone).
> 
> Survey results:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A8rKyKUW0X01n-JEMLwEUT4ktX-7WrxNP03YTkZs6lU/edit#
>  
> 
> 
> To get
> us going we will need a few people to commit time over the next 6
> months. The roles we need are set out below and
> we will need to initially fill them and then, once we have a
> constitution in place, we will need volunteers to stand for election. These 
> roles will be needed irrespective of whether decision making lies with the 
> membership or an elected board.
> 
> * Chair – to provide leadership and ensures the group functions properly
> 
> * Treasurer – to organise the finances of the group. Initially this will 
> mean setting up our bank account.
> 
> * Secretary/Membership secretary – to keep the register of members up to 
> date (indeed to set
> on up in the first place), to ensure that voting procedures are carried
> out in accordance to our agreed policy. There is potential for this to
> be two separate roles.We will also need an initial working group to provide 
> ideas and discussion. This group can also support the
> aforementioned roles in small discrete tasks.
> 
> Please let me know
> if you can help with setting up the group and/or whether you would be
> willing to stand for election once the constitution is established. I will 
> share the telephone
> number and login PIN closer to the date.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rob
> 
> p.s. Busy on 17th December? No worries. Send me you comments and I will make 
> sure they are shared.
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Re: [Talk-GB] ITO World - OSM OS Locator Analysis

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Philip,

Do you have a specific example where the not:names are not working? The left 
hand column on 
http://product.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/area?name=Cambridge has a 
list of the streets where the not name has been used, so that the Ordnance 
Survey can use that information as part of the feedback loop, and to allow 
later review.

I’ve looked at a few examples in the roads missing list, and for the road 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4076126 the comment on the last changeset 
suggests that there should be a not:name added to the street. I’ve not seen an 
example where there is a not:name which is not interpreted, and would be 
interested in any such examples.

The daily updates are from the OSM data, so within 1 or 2 days any changes that 
you make to OSM should show up in OSM Analysis. The updates to the OS data are 
done manually, which I’ve just done for the November 2015 data, and should be 
picked up in the next update. This will mean there will likely be a little jump 
in the numbers of unnamed roads. (Sorry for the delay in updating, I’ve been on 
paternity leave this past couple of weeks.)

Shaun
Developer
ITO World

> On 11 Dec 2015, at 20:36, Phillip Barnett  wrote:
> 
> I'm slightly confused - I fixed a lot /most of Cambridge with not:name a year 
> or two ago but on looking again, find the same errors still there. How do I 
> get ITO to refresh this? The site says it was refreshed today.
> 
> On 11 Dec 2015, at 17:44, Jez Nicholson  > wrote:
> 
>> Thank you. You've prompted me to renew my quest for 100% in City of Brighton 
>> and Hove as long as the roads with/without apostrophes aren't counted in 
>> the percentage.
>> 
>> - Jez
>> 
>> On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 at 23:09 Steve Doerr > > wrote:
>> I think the URL may have changed. Try 
>> http://product.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main 
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/12/2015 22:34, Robert Neil wrote:
>>> ITOWorld OSM / OS Locator missing street analysis has been off for a couple 
>>> of weeks with page not found.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Anyone know what is happening with it?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Robert
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>  
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>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Coastline - my botched attempt to re-align ?

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi,

The coastline is updated at a much slower pace compared to everything else, so 
it's expected that it won't align for some time in the map rendering. It could 
be days, weeks, or months between coastline updates, and not minutely updates 
like all of the other OSM data. So don't worry about it, the coastline will 
update in due course.

Shaun

> On 23 Oct 2015, at 14:02, Bogus Zaba  wrote:
> 
> A seawall was recently re-built in west Rhyl. As a result, and following
> two GPS surveys, earlier this week (Tue 20/10) I moved three features on
> the coast in West Rhyl. These were : the coastline, the boundary of a
> beach and the route of a cycleway which follows the new seawall.
> 
> The cycle route and the beach boundary now render correctly on Mapnik
> and on the cycle map. However the coastline appears to follow the
> previous version (complete with some characteristic details which used
> to describe coastal structures on the old seawall). This has led to a
> rendering which shows a sliver of sea inland of my new coastline, beach
> and cycleway. See here:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.3173/-3.5020
> 
> If I import the current OSM data into JOSM I can see no reason why this 
> "ghost" coastline should appear in any 
> rendering. There are no ways shown in the area where Mapnik and the Cyclemap 
> show this sliver of the Irish Sea.
> 
> Anybody suggest what I have done wrong and how to right it?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> bogzab
> 
> -- 
> Dr Bogumil N Zaba
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Last quarterly project for 2015

[Shaun McDonald]

A number of different boundaries such as SSSIs, national parks, and nature 
reserves are available from 
http://www.geostore.com/environment-agency/WebStore?xml=environment-agency/xml/ogcDataDownload.xml
 


Shaun

> On 5 Oct 2015, at 09:29, SK53  wrote:
> 
> I'm well in favour of mapping nature reserves, but they usually are quite 
> difficult to find actual boundaries.
> 
> Nick Whitlegg and I walked through a couple of Woodland Trust areas on 
> Saturday and working out the extent of the area owned by the WT is difficult. 
> Similarly, over another non-OSM matter, I've been exchanging emails with NT 
> Eastern Office about Wicken Fen, but they have added so much new land over 
> the past few years that they dont have a ready to use map of the reserve. 
> Another one is the new RSPB reserve at Medmerry near Selsey, which is the 
> site of a massive managed retreat and new sea wall breach. This was brought 
> to my attention by Liz Scott (@birdmaps). Lastly, I haven't even resolved the 
> bounds of Attenborough NR: the staff now manage the area in Derbyshire 
> labelled Erewash Field  on OSM. I 
> don't know if it has been formally incoriporated into the reserve, so the 
> current mapping is a sensible compromise (and yes Nottinghamshire Wildlife 
> Trust operate a reserve in Derbyshire).
> 
> There are Natural England datasets for National NRs, Local NRs and SSSIs. I 
> think these are under OGL these days, but like PRoW or Land Registry inspire 
> data, they may incorporate OS MasterMap data, and I have always treated them 
> as not fully open. Some local authorities have open data showing boundaries 
> of LNRs. Note that NR & SSSI boundaries are often not coincident. NRs depend 
> on either landowner agreement, or willingness to sell land; SSSIs are based 
> on conservation importance. And of course, some NRs have geological SSSIs in 
> their midst which are much smaller than the NR.
> 
> The second thing which is really important for NRs is to get path networks 
> and access mapped out. Experience shows that even if one wants to start 
> mapping the things the NR is about, having the paths in is a necessary but 
> not sufficient condition for a decent map. Many NRs are very deficient from 
> this point of view (including the big ancient woodlands S of Coventry, such 
> as Wappenbury & Ryton, the last of which I visited at end of August. 
> Similarly both Wyre Forest & Werneth Low which I visited in September lack 
> many paths.
> 
> There's a lot more to say about NRs, I have already started a draft for the 
> blog to do so inspired by looking at Medmerry.
> 
> My feeling is that the most value can be added to OSM by improving details of 
> NRs local to individual mappers, and initially, at least path networks (there 
> are probably 10+ km of unmapped paths in Ryton Wood alone).
> 
> One other plea, please don't map areas of grass as meadows unless you know 
> them to be meadows: Dudley wrote something about this in the past.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jerry
> 
> On 5 October 2015 at 08:39, Brian Prangle  > wrote:
> Hi everyone
> 
> For the remainder of 2015 lets concentrate on Nature Reserves
> 
> Regards
> 
> Brian
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Traffic Signs

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 30 Sep 2015, at 10:46, Maarten Deen  wrote:
> 
> On 2015-09-30 11:29, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>> 2015-09-30 11:25 GMT+02:00 Maarten Deen :
>>> The city of Amsterdam is very good at this. One-way streets very
>>> often have no signs at the side where you are allowed to enter but
>>> have a sign "closed for motorized traffic with more than two wheels"
>>> on the other side.
>>> Effectively it is not a one-way street because cars are still
>>> allowed to turn around and you can drive in reverse (not allowed in
>>> a one-way street).
>>> How would you put this as a restriction in OSM? motorcar:backward=no
>>> or something?
>> what about a turn restriction relation via the node where you are not
>> allowed to enter?
> 
> That turn restriction does not exist in real life, so you shouldn't add it in 
> OSM ;)
> 
> But suppose you would solve it like that: you can enter an OSM way from two 
> or three other ways (T-junction or crossing), do you then have to make two or 
> three turn restrictions?
> 

I've seen similar in Britain where there's a short one way section at the end 
of the street, though there is a one way sign at the end of the street for 
around 10-20 metres.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-transit] different interpretations of v2 PT scheme

[Shaun McDonald]

In the UK, the NaPTAN standard uses a stop area to group stops together, such 
that you have one stop in each direction within the same stop area, or a whole 
bus station within a stop area.

Shaun

 On 2 Jul 2015, at 14:52, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 If you are adding stop_areas, then there certainly have to be two of them, 
 one on each side. One of them is put in the route that goes one way, the 
 other one is put in the other way. I'm also pretty sure that the 
 stop_area_group is not needed. If they are near each other, then it's a 
 group. But to someone near each other means within 400m, to someone in a 
 wheelchair it means ramps, to a blind person it means traffic lights with 
 sound. What else can a group achieve that spatial placement can't? Maybe if a 
 group has a ref.
 
 After all this, I'm not sure that stop_area is absolutely necessary. 
 Stop_position and platform are nearby, so there is really not that much 
 chance an algorithm is going to connect the wrong ones. If it was me, I would 
 just add all the refs to the platform, like you did, and ignore all the refs 
 on the stop_position. Job done, no relations needed.
 
 čet, 2. srp 2015. u 00:54 Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com 
 napisao je:
 I tend to add the waste_basket that clearly 'belongs' to the bus stop, the 
 bench, the shelter, the ticker/departures screen in as well. Most of the time 
 they have a style you don't see elsewhere. Never occurred to me to add 
 toilets or flowers or pubs though.
 
 But do we agree a stop_area relation is needed for each side of a street? and 
 a stop_area_group to show that they belong together?
 
 Jo
 
 
 
 2015-07-02 0:31 GMT+02:00 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com 
 mailto:jan...@gmail.com:
 To me it's logical to put all those ref, network and operator tags in the 
 stop_area relation, not on the nodes or ways. The relation is the only 
 element that describes the bus stop completely. If you only put the ref and 
 operator on the platform, the stop position is missing.
 
 But if mappers in a city agree that they don't need stop_area relations, they 
 can put ref and operator tags on platforms, or stop_areas. I think this can 
 be reasonably flexible, but only between networks, or countries.
 
 Also, putting waste_baskets, benches, flowers, toilets, cafes and other 
 things in the stop area relation is unnecessary. Who decides if a cafe is 
 near enough to be in a stop_area? What do they have to do with public 
 transport? Only the stop_position and platform are needed. But I'm not going 
 to remove those from a stop_area relation, they don't hurt. 
 
 sri, 1. srp 2015. u 13:55 Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com 
 napisao je:
 What I'm doing comes down to mapping the poles. stop_positions could be 
 shared for stops that are exactly across one another.
 
 I guess there is no choice but to rewrite the script(s) in order to cope with 
 all variations of possible ways to map. Or else simply give up on it and move 
 on. Not sure which I will choose.
 
 It would be nicer if we were able to come up with a totally consistent 
 version 3 of mapping PT, but what I see, is we're moving in different 
 directions. What is logical to me, apparently isn't for the rest of the 
 world. What I do know is that I'm not going to be spending the next 2 years 
 to make sure all the stop_positions (5 for a small country) are present. 
 They're simply not important enough for that. I add them here and there and 
 consistently for the terminal stops.
 
 What I want to focus on at the moment is to get all the itineraries in , the 
 routes and their variations. To me that seems like a better use of my time.
 
 Polyglot
 
 2015-07-01 11:59 GMT+02:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com 
 mailto:winfi...@gmail.com:
 I am the mapper. I use the processing to assist me, like a tool. I also try 
 to map them all in the same way for consistency. The problem is that 
 apparently there was still room for interpretation in the 'version 2' of the 
 public transport scheme.
 
 What I see happening in Germany is that information is duplicated needlessly. 
 Moving it to the stop_area relation would be a logical step, but information 
 doesn't cascade through like that in OSM. In Belgium every stop has its own 
 ref, and of course if you calculate a route_ref from the schedules this will 
 not always yield the same result for both sides of a street.
 
 Jo
 
 
 
 2015-07-01 11:43 GMT+02:00 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com 
 mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com:
 Your processing needs to be able to cope with these situations, using the 
 latlon of the features, if the relationships aren't explicit. Get the 
 computer to do the work, not the mappers.
 
 Richard
 
 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com 
 mailto:winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
 2015-07-01 10:00 GMT+02:00 Éric Gillet gill3t.3ric+...@gmail.com 
 mailto:gill3t.3ric+...@gmail.com:
 2015-07-01 7:38 GMT+02:00 Jo 

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

[Shaun McDonald]

 On 3 Jun 2015, at 07:00, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:
 
 On 2015-06-03 02:04, pmailkeey . wrote:
 iD shows oneway=unknown if it's not set. If it's unknown, iD should
 not show oneway at all.
 
 I agree.
 
 In OSM if oneway=no then it's not oneway and the oneway tag should not
 appear at all.
 
 Here I don't agree.
 
 The only time oneway should appear is in the case of oneway=yes - and
 the '=yes' is superfluous.
 
 Some roads are implied oneway. E.g. junction=roundabout and highway=motorway 
 both imply that the road is one-way only. If for some reason the object in 
 case is not oneway, a oneway=no tag is very much needed.
 
 I agree that in every case where oneway=yes is not implied, oneway=no is 
 superfluous (in a network design way), but that does not make oneway=no 
 superfluous.
 

There are some cases where oneway=no is useful. For example an area where there 
is lots of one way streets and only a few that are two way, adding the 
oneway=no confirms that the data is correct rather than the oneway=yes being 
missing. Similarly where a street was oneway previously and has recently been 
made two way, this makes it explicit that it is now two way in addition to 
whatever changeset note there may be.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] too many universities in Cambridge

[Shaun McDonald]

 On 22 May 2015, at 12:30, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
 
 Does the main OSM rendering understand building=university?
 

Yes, for example this building at Heriot-Watt University: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22881764 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22881764 where I used the 
university=building tag over 6 years ago. With the grounds of the university 
being tagged amenity=university: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4388535 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4388535 I apply a similar principle to 
schools.

Mapnik will render any building value, except building=no. There are some 
building values which get special treatment.
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/project.mml#L468
 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/project.mml#L468
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/buildings.mss 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/buildings.mss 

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapillary plugin for JOSM

[Shaun McDonald]

It’s currently possible to comment on single images, commenting on the whole 
sequence would be interesting.

If one person thinks they have added all the details, someone else is likely to 
come up with some other obscure tags that would be added due to information in 
the photos that the original person never thought of.

Being able to overlay the speed limit signs on the top of the ITO speed limit 
map for example could be more interesting for example.

Shaun

 On 5 May 2015, at 16:27, Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Looking forward to the JOSM plugin!
 
 Is there, or will there be, some sort of way that one can indicate that a 
 sequence of Mapillary images has been reviewed and relevant content added to 
 OSM? Perhaps a notes field in the Mapillary database where a mapper could 
 state mapped signs or mapped surface type.
 
 Mike 
 
 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com 
 mailto:jan...@gmail.com wrote:
 This brings us exciting possibilities. Someone could make a layer that 
 detects inconsistencies between mapillary sign data and osm data. For example:
 
 -there should be a oneway street near a oneway sign
 -there should be a turn restriction or a oneway street junction near a sign 
 with a turn restriction
 -there should be a maxspeed tag where there is a max speed sign
 ...
 
 Janko
 
 
 uto, 5. svi 2015. 00:49 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us 
 mailto:cliff...@snowandsnow.us je napisao:
 
 On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 3:16 PM, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com 
 mailto:molto...@gmail.com wrote:
 Looking forward to the josm plugin and the merging/locating of signs :)
 
 +1 - I got so excited that I purchased a new cell phone mount from GeekWire 
 to replace my defective old mount.
 
 
 
 -- 
 @osm_seattle
 osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us http://osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us/
 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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[Talk-GB] ITO - OSM Analysis Updated with May 2015 OS data

[Shaun McDonald]

Hello UK mappers,

I’ve updated the ITO OSM Analysis with the new OS Locator data which has been 
released this month (May 2015).

Many areas have had significant increases in the number of missing road names. 
Leeds has had the biggest increase of 35 more missing road names. Moray for 
example is now only 94.01% complete.
 http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main 
 http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main

Shaun
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Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup

[Shaun McDonald]

 On 1 May 2015, at 16:56, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 If we want to unify a kind of chain store, I think we should leave the name 
 tag, and focus on other tags. Some examples are ref:vatin=* for the vat id of 
 the store, brand:wikidata=* for the wikidata id of the brand owner, website=* 
 for the central website, or we can find a new better tag that should be the 
 same with all certain chain stores. Names should be left to the local mapper.
 
 Janko
 
When I add the website to an object in OSM, I try to add a link to the specific 
branch in the branch finder rather than the home page, thus would need to be 
careful with the matching, as exact matching won’t work. Also need to cater for 
when one person uses https url, and another uses http for example.

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Re: [OSM-talk] video mapping

[Shaun McDonald]

Hello Peter,

I’ve done quite a bit of video mapping in the past, with just manual moving the 
map around to do the editing. I have since discovered that taking photos and 
using Mapillary can produce much better results as you can zoom into the images 
much more thus being able to see details better. There is the caveat in that 
the taking of photos every 2 seconds can mean missing out on something between 
2 frames, however I’ve not found this to be a huge issue, as the 1080p video 
would be less clear, thus would possible not be able to read it anyway. Sharing 
of the photos is also easier, which means other people can map things that I’ve 
not noticed or aren’t interested in mapping.

Shaun

 On 11 Apr 2015, at 16:59, Peter Gervai grinapo+osmt...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 For quite a while I was hoping that it's just me; I thought maybe
 everyone else is able to use some tool for video mapping but as time
 have passed I kind of realised that nobody I know knows about a
 working solution. I use Linux (what else).
 
 Video mapping: I have a camera, records a movie. I have a GPX,
 contains the track. I would like to use the data combined in JOSM
 (preferably, or any working standalone application if it fails, which
 is inconvenient but still useful more or less) to be able to see
 images for a given position, possibly being able to frame-forward and
 reverse (to read signs etc). It seems simple enough. I don't even care
 about soundtrack.
 
 There is a VideoMapping plugin for JOSM. No, that's not correct. There
 was a plan to create a working VideoMapping plugin for JOSM in 2010.
 Since then the development ceased completely and the code, as it is,
 uses specific and pretty eccentric java libraries which doesn't work
 at all under Linux (or possibly anywhere else but windoze). I have
 tried several times but based on the (non-)feedback from JOSM
 developers the code doesn't work, not expected to work and nobody able
 or care to rewrite the video display codepaths.
 
 
 So, I ask around, here, now: does anyone know a _working_ solution
 (working under Linux) for the desire above? Isn't there anyone with
 the wish and will to code a JOSM video plugin instead of that very
 beta piece of code (or fix it, but my guess is that it is not quite
 fixable)? Shouldn't be that hard - unless there is really no way to
 display images under java (I'm not familiar with java, you see).
 
 Or is there any external code possibly doing what's needed?
 
 Or really nobody does videomapping anywhere?
 
 True, I could cut the video apart to images at given intervals and
 geotag them but then I'd lose 97% (29/30) of the recorded data. (Even
 the sound track but I could live without it, and there seem to be an
 audio sync plugin for JOSM - I have never tried.)
 
 Any help or input would be appreciated.
 
 Thanks,
 Peter
 
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[Talk-GB] OSM Analysis Updated with latest OS Locator data

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi,

OSM Analysis has been updated to the latest OS Locator data.
 http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main 
 http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main

There have been many places knocked off the 100% completeness, with 17 areas 
now below 95% complete. Overall completeness is currently 98.00%.

I’d also like to apologise for some of the delays in the updates appearing 
publicly recently, this has problem has now been fixed.

Happy Mapping.

Shaun
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Re: [Talk-GB] Confused over access...

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Stuart,

The bus=yes and psv=yes override the access=no to say only buses/public service 
vehicles can use the road.

The access=no says ignore the normal defaults for access on the road, and 
instead use the access values included in this object instead.

I hope that clarifies things.

Shaun

 On 14 Oct 2014, at 17:02, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk 
 wrote:
 
 Hi
  
 Very quickly, if I have a road that is for bus/psv use, and is tagged like 
 this:
  
 Access=no
 Bus=yes
 Psv=yes
  
 does that mean that buses are, or aren’t, allowed to use it? Currently the 
 bus lane around Preston Bus Station is coded this way, but my contractor 
 isn’t treating it as a bus lane, and before I go and  hassle the contractor I 
 thought I would check my understanding. I got the impression that access=no 
 took everything out.
  
 Thanks.
  
 Stuart
  
 ---
 Stuart Reynolds
 For traveline south east  anglia
  
 email: stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk 
 mailto:stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk
 mob: 07788 106165
 skype: stuartjreynolds
  
  
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is the standard map down?

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Dave,

I see no problem here. Maybe it was a temporary issue, or your tile usage is 
being throttled?

Shaun

 On 9 Oct 2014, at 12:56, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 
 Hi
 
 It appears the mapnik tiles server is down. I'm just getting a grey window 
 for the rendering at the moment. Cycle/transport etc are displaying.
 Are others getting the same? Anybody able to sort the problem?
 
 Cheers
 Dave F.
 
 ---
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
 protection is active.
 http://www.avast.com
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Lloyds TSB

[Shaun McDonald]

Thanks for the reminder, I’ve updated one in Ipswich based on Mapillary images 
I took recently. Still need to get a bit more coverage to get the other one 
that still needs to be done.

Shaun

On 2 Oct 2014, at 09:30, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote:

 It has been over a year now since I first mentioned
 http://www.loach.me.uk/osm/LloydsTSB/
 here, and there are still lots of branches that haven't been remapped, so I 
 thought I'd mention it again.
  
 Ed
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Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import

[Shaun McDonald]

I see it as being better to put the right hints into the OSM data and the 
routing algorithm so that they can be automatically chosen from the TNDS data, 
rather than having the data in OSM, which is hard to represent some 
complexities such as a few journeys go via a school, some are part route, etc

Shaun

On 1 Aug 2014, at 15:32, Oliver Jowett oliver.jow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Right - I was just trying to understand which was the canonical source. One 
 of the things I've been wanting to try (but never have the time) is repair 
 the OSM bus route relations based on the TNDS schedule info - which sounds 
 very much like your track-finding system. But that gets dangerous if TNDS is 
 indirectly pulling data from OSM itself..
 
 Oliver
 
 
 On 1 August 2014 14:20, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk 
 wrote:
 Oliver,
 
  
 
 TNDS data (Traveline National Data Set, for other’s benefit - national set of 
 bus  coach timetables) does not currently have the route detail - known in 
 TransXChange as tracks. This is because up to now there have been issues of 
 IPR with OSGR coordinates derived from OS and/or Navteq data.
 
  
 
 Certainly from our point of view - and by “us” I mean the traveline regions 
 of South East, London, East Anglia, South West, East Midlands and (shortly) 
 West Midlands - we are all now on a merged system using OSM data so those 
 problems have gone away. But I still won’t be exporting Tracks until TNDS 
 asks me to.
 
  
 
 Even then, it still has the issues of “is this right”. Most of the time it 
 is, but we do get some routes which find a shorter path along a back street 
 rather than down the main road.
 
  
 
 Cheers
 
 Stuart
 
  
 
 From: Oliver Jowett [mailto:oliver.jow...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: 01 August 2014 1:51 PM
 To: Stuart Reynolds
 
 
 Cc: Talk GB
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
 
  
 
 On 1 August 2014 11:17, Stuart Reynolds stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk 
 wrote:
 
  
 
 In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between stops, 
 and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is a whole 
 different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good quality, and I 
 will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway along a road that 
 is mapped as one line, for example, - and I’m not about to get into that for 
 now! Although I would like to, eventually!
 
  
 
 Where does TNDS fit into this?
 
  
 
 Oliver
 
  
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Incorrect speed limit anonymous notes - who is behind that?

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Peter,

The following ITO Map shows missing maxspeed tags where there isn’t any purple 
(mph maxspeed) or dark green (km/h maxspeed) colour:
http://www.itoworld.com/map/125?lon=-0.08316lat=51.51851zoom=14open_sidebar=map_keyfullscreen=true

If you want to see the current speed limits see:
http://www.itoworld.com/map/124?lon=-0.08316lat=51.51851zoom=14open_sidebar=map_keyfullscreen=true

Clicking the maps gives more info in the sidebar.

Shaun

Disclaimer: Employee of ITO World who produce the maps above.

On 29 Jul 2014, at 11:49, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote:

 Sorry,
 there are QA tools to detect where speed limits are missing?
 Can you give me a link?
 And - if it's not self explaining: how should that work? I don't see any
 way to detect missing speed limits in the data beyond cases where those
 are implicit defaults, like 100 on non-trunk roads away from built up
 areas in Germany (which is complicated enough to derive from the data),
 or 130 for trunk roads (although most often there are lower limits), or
 50 in cities (as the most often down-signed default).
 
 So if there is any QA tool that detects that, I fear it uses third party
 sources, a reporting system similar to the notes feature, but using a
 different channel, or it is restricted to some cornercases only. I doubt
 there is something like that which could make notes about speed limit
 errors in osm obsolete.
 
 IMHO notes are to be checked in person on the ground usually. If there's
 nobody in France to do that, yes, then notes will remain in the database
 for a long time, but basically they stay correct: Here is something
 missing or wrong, please check that on the ground.
 
 regards
 Peter
 
 Am 29.07.2014 um 11:09 schrieb JB:
 I don't necessarily want to analyse once more how the notes are opened,
 closed or not closed and to what aim, nor analyse the end of
 OpenStreetBug life and the quality of the remaining bugs, but in France,
 I have never ever seen anyone comment on someone else's note (or «
 resurvey »). The only comments I have seen were from the note opener,
 when prompted by a potential corrector.
 
 So a note which indicates « probably 90km/h here » or « speed limit is
 not 0km/h » may remain there for years (yes, years), demotivate
 potential note closers, never be closed. I do not think they participate
 to a high quality note db. There are quality assessments tools around
 that allow contributors to detect where speed limits are missing.
 
 JB, with perhaps some bad faith in there, but not that much.
 
 
 Le 29/07/2014 10:19, Steve Doerr a écrit :
 On 29/07/2014 08:32, JB wrote:
 
 Anyway, as for most notes concerning speed limits, if you do no have
 the beginning and the end of the limit, at least in France, the
 information is quite useless.
 
 Are we all armchair mappers now? Surely the note should prompt someone
 local to go out to the location and find out where the speed limit
 starts and ends?
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Incorrect speed limit anonymous notes - who is behind that?

[Shaun McDonald]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 13:07, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:

 2014-07-29 13:39 GMT+02:00 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de:
 Hi Shaun,
 
 if I understand these maps correctly, they show streets without a
 maxspeed tag, but not msising maxspeed restrictions under the assumption
 of a national default or something like that (although it seems not so
 show any missing maxspeed in Germany, so there might be something like
 that applied).
 
 There is consensus to tag roads with implied maxspeed with tags like 
 maxspeed=50 + source:maxspeed=de:urban. So all roads should have maxspeed 
 tags.

In Britain we’ve moved to using the maxspeed:type tag instead of 
source:maxspeed, thus leaving source:maxspeed for how you found out the 
maxspeed:type. e.g. was it a sign, survey, or local knowledge?

Shaun

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Re: [OSM-talk] Incorrect speed limit anonymous notes - who is behind that?

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Peter,

Unfortunately we don’t take account of any country defaults due to the 
complexities involved.

I’m sure that someone will come up with a tool to highlight the problems if a 
national speed limit does change, especially if the maxspeed:type is used 
appropriately.

Shaun

On 29 Jul 2014, at 12:39, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote:

 Hi Shaun,
 
 if I understand these maps correctly, they show streets without a
 maxspeed tag, but not msising maxspeed restrictions under the assumption
 of a national default or something like that (although it seems not so
 show any missing maxspeed in Germany, so there might be something like
 that applied).
 
 If maxspeed is and should be applied on any street, this works, but only
 until speed limits change.
 If you imply the default according to highway class and location, it
 fails as many roads do follow these defaults and cannot be counted as
 missing, nor is it possible to decide where else a maxspeed is missing
 then.
 
 In any case reporting missing maxspeeds will work only until the speed
 limit is changed on the ground as it is even more difficult (if
 possible) to detect where there are errors (!) in existing speed limits.
 
 regards
 Peter
 
 Am 29.07.2014 um 13:10 schrieb Shaun McDonald:
 Hi Peter,
 
 The following ITO Map shows missing maxspeed tags where there isn’t any 
 purple (mph maxspeed) or dark green (km/h maxspeed) colour:
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/125?lon=-0.08316lat=51.51851zoom=14open_sidebar=map_keyfullscreen=true
 
 If you want to see the current speed limits see:
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/124?lon=-0.08316lat=51.51851zoom=14open_sidebar=map_keyfullscreen=true
 
 Clicking the maps gives more info in the sidebar.
 
 Shaun
 
 Disclaimer: Employee of ITO World who produce the maps above.
 
 On 29 Jul 2014, at 11:49, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote:
 
 Sorry,
 there are QA tools to detect where speed limits are missing?
 Can you give me a link?
 And - if it's not self explaining: how should that work? I don't see any
 way to detect missing speed limits in the data beyond cases where those
 are implicit defaults, like 100 on non-trunk roads away from built up
 areas in Germany (which is complicated enough to derive from the data),
 or 130 for trunk roads (although most often there are lower limits), or
 50 in cities (as the most often down-signed default).
 
 So if there is any QA tool that detects that, I fear it uses third party
 sources, a reporting system similar to the notes feature, but using a
 different channel, or it is restricted to some cornercases only. I doubt
 there is something like that which could make notes about speed limit
 errors in osm obsolete.
 
 IMHO notes are to be checked in person on the ground usually. If there's
 nobody in France to do that, yes, then notes will remain in the database
 for a long time, but basically they stay correct: Here is something
 missing or wrong, please check that on the ground.
 
 regards
 Peter
 
 Am 29.07.2014 um 11:09 schrieb JB:
 I don't necessarily want to analyse once more how the notes are opened,
 closed or not closed and to what aim, nor analyse the end of
 OpenStreetBug life and the quality of the remaining bugs, but in France,
 I have never ever seen anyone comment on someone else's note (or «
 resurvey »). The only comments I have seen were from the note opener,
 when prompted by a potential corrector.
 
 So a note which indicates « probably 90km/h here » or « speed limit is
 not 0km/h » may remain there for years (yes, years), demotivate
 potential note closers, never be closed. I do not think they participate
 to a high quality note db. There are quality assessments tools around
 that allow contributors to detect where speed limits are missing.
 
 JB, with perhaps some bad faith in there, but not that much.
 
 
 Le 29/07/2014 10:19, Steve Doerr a écrit :
 On 29/07/2014 08:32, JB wrote:
 
 Anyway, as for most notes concerning speed limits, if you do no have
 the beginning and the end of the limit, at least in France, the
 information is quite useless.
 
 Are we all armchair mappers now? Surely the note should prompt someone
 local to go out to the location and find out where the speed limit
 starts and ends?
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] highway=trunk Roads and Cycle Navigation

[Shaun McDonald]

On 25 Jul 2014, at 17:37, David Woolley for...@david-woolley.me.uk wrote:

 On 25/07/14 17:15, Philip Barnes wrote:
 Are you proposing we tag for the renderer by not tagging trunk roads as
 trunk?
 
 No.  He wants people to tag for the router, not the renderer.
 
 I think that is a bad idea, although not as bad when most trunk roads weren't 
 already mapped, as it is doing something for the convenience of a small 
 number or routing software developers rather than a large number of mappers.
 
 It could be argued that the current approach is actually tagging for the 
 renderer, except that the details in question don't get rendered in the 
 standard rendering.
 
 In practice, though, it is more likely that roads would have been mis-tagged 
 if the most common case required extra permissions to be be explicitly added.

Or the road planners in Britain have failed to provide proper facilities for 
the walking and cycling population of Britain?

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] Getting Highway Agency information into OSM

[Shaun McDonald]

Another option to the GPS data, would be to use Mapillary to provide the latest 
images of the roads, and automatically a GPS trace is included too. This would 
mean that the images could be used for us to map alongside a feed of the 
changes that are known. This also has the advantage in that other surrounding 
things can be mapped too, and gets around any derived copyright issues in the 
maps that are created based on OS data.

Shaun

On 5 Jul 2014, at 17:47, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi John,
 
 The negativity, or least lack of enthusiasm, is partly due to the complexity 
 of the issue. We'd love to have Highways Agency data as open data but if the 
 data is based upon Ordnance Survey data this becomes a quite tricky. Normally 
 you would have the data holder apply for a Exemption under the Public Sector 
 Mapping Agreement (PSMA). Even then there's not much consensus in the GB 
 community as to whether we can actually use the data.
 
 As suggested, a better idea would be to have the Highways Agency provide us a 
 list of upcoming projects and dates that they are expected to complete. If 
 they have any GPS data we would be able to use that too :-)
 
 Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] Getting Highway Agency information into OSM

[Shaun McDonald]

Maybe a simple method is to use the OSM notes system, which is what the feature 
was designed for?

Shaun

On 3 Jul 2014, at 19:10, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote:

 You know, rather than thinking about automatically importing any of
 their data into OSM, my intuition is that given the concerns about OS
 copyright, plus how much OSMers enjoy mapping new features, I'd
 suggest using their data to create a web feed of Hot new roads for
 mappers to go and survey! - I bet they'd all be mapped within a week
 ;)
 
 Dan
 
 2014-07-03 18:41 GMT+01:00 John Baker rovas...@hotmail.com:
 
 Yeah I know we are pretty good at adding them. But this discussion started
 with the HA because there were roads that were not on OSM.
 
 It was this project that he was working on.
 http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/road-projects/a23-handcross-to-warninglid/
 
 So I personally added this in a rough way based on the descriptions from him
 who was on site at the time and the plans that were there (I didn't trace
 them just looked at them).
 
 I don't (for a change) want to get into conversation about tracing imagery
 vs. doing it by hand. The point is what can we use.
 
 My thought were that if there plans were based on the OS streetview (rather
 than the more detailed ones) then we could use them.
 
 
 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 18:23:34 +0100
 From: o...@raggedred.net
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Getting Highway Agency information into OSM
 
 On 03/07/14 17:51, John Baker wrote:
 The first thing I am worried about is the copyright of the various
 plans. Some/many seem to be derived from OS maps.
 
 A legitimate concern.
 
 Now I am no expert on the copyright situation here and dialogue is
 difficult they know little about OSM really. He just said we release
 the plans and they are public domain.
 
 There is no mechanism in the UK for a body like the Highways Agency to
 release data as PD. That is a mechanism used in countries like the US.
 In the UK the info would have to be licensed using a specific licence,
 such as the Open Government Licence. If the plans are based on OS maps
 then OS would have to agree to release this, according to OS's
 interpretation of copyright law. OS probably will not agree to this, but
 it is worth asking :-).
 
 Without a suitably agreed licence we cannot trace such plans into OSM.
 You could visit the site and get GPS traces  photos to add such works
 to OSM, which is usually what happens as soon as a new road gets opened.
 
 I'd be interested if the Highway's Agency have opened new roads and they
 are not included in OSM very soon after. That seems to me to be
 something we are pretty good at.
 
 --
 Cheers, Chris
 user: chillly
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Postcodes

[Shaun McDonald]

Personally I’d say it’s better to place the postcode on the buildings, as they 
are delivery points, that the postcode relates to, whereas adding them to the 
street is both more complex, error prone and not tagging what the postcode 
actually relates to (i.e. the collection of delivery points).

Shaun

On 20 May 2014, at 00:33, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:

 I personally put postcodes on buildings as in my two most common use cases 
 (getting something delivered to my house, and using my GPS to get somewhere) 
 I have become accustomed to being asked for a house number after supplying a 
 postcode.
 
 I guess that tagging the street works (although you may need to split it into 
 sections and add :right and :left tag extensions), but it's not something I 
 do. You mentioned the postman walking up the street - well I guess you could 
 say that the walk also includes the driveway up to the front of each 
 house/letterbox.
 
 Whether nominatim works or not is a search problem, not a mapping one (i.e. 
 not mapping for the nominatim).
 
 Rob
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[Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data

[Shaun McDonald]

ITO’s OSM Analysis has been updated with the latest OS Locator data. Most 
places have dropped out of the 100% completeness compared to OS Locator. 
There’s now 18 places which have less than 95% completeness.

http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main

Shaun McDonald
Developer
ITO World
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Re: [OSM-talk] New ITO electricity distribution map

[Shaun McDonald]

On 30 Apr 2014, at 15:54, Jaakko Helleranta.com jaa...@helleranta.com wrote:

 This is very nice improvement!

It’s great to hear you like the improvements

 
 I'm happy to see that even my rather spotty/patchy mapping of power infra in 
 Haiti is finally being visualized/rendered in a way that it starts to 
 demonstrate the usefulness of OSM as power mapping platform for also those 
 that don't use the data (in separate applications). This will hopefully help 
 to advocate for the use of OSM.
 
 Now, I too would like to make a suggestion:
 Accented characters don't seem to get rendered at all in place name labels. 
 See e.g. 
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=-72.27848lat=18.51272zoom=16open_sidebar=map_keyfullscreen=true
  where Pétionville is rendered as Ptionville (almost center, slightly to 
 the left), Tête de l'eau is Tte de l'eau (center bottom) and 
 Péguy-Ville is Pguy-Ville (right center).

The accented characters is a known issue. There’s no ETA on when it’ll be fixed 
currently.

 
 Can someone pass this onwards / what would be the address / who would be the 
 person to send improvement suggestions (also in the future)?

Emailing supp...@itoworld.com is probably the most reliable way to contact to 
improve the maps.


Shaun McDonald
ITO World Developer.

 
 Thanks to all who've worked on this!
 -Jaakko
 
 
 --
 jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +505-8845-3391 
 (Nicaragua) * Voice(mail) / SMS / What's app: +1-202-730-9778 * 
 http://about.me/jaakkoh
 
 
 On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 6:35 AM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:
 On 2014-04-30 14:20, Janko Mihelić wrote:
 Where do I add my suggestions?
 
 Same for me. I don't like that the background map is so invisible, that the 
 city labels that do get generated seem to be generated at all zoom levels 
 (which is really bad at low zoom) and that they can't cope with diacritics.
 
 And, are there no 300-350 kV lines or is it the color difference that is to 
 small that I don't see them?
 
 Regards,
 Maarten
 
 2014-04-30 13:49 GMT+02:00 François Lacombe
 francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu:
 
 Hi,
 
 ITOWorld power  communication maps have been updated and are now
 online, as a result of the feedback I gave to their support team.
 
 Electricity Distribution map is now almost complete.
 
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=2.51848lat=48.80986zoom=10open_sidebar=map_keyfullscreen=true
 [1]
 
 
 The main point was to deal with power substation inside stuff and
 pole hosted features.
 
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=5.80635lat=46.05588zoom=17fullscreen=true
 [2]
 
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=6.19542lat=46.07335zoom=14fullscreen=true
 [3]
 
 
 The map appearance will continuously be improved as long as
 proposals get accepted.
 Almost all mapped power=* features can be seen worldwide on this
 map, even if it's not always the case (and doesn't have to be) on
 the main slippy map.
 
 I want to thank them for time and resources investment. Everyone
 contribution get a lot of value through it.
 
 Cheers,
 
 FRANÇOIS LACOMBE
 
 
 francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
 http://www.infos-reseaux.com [4]
 
 
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 Links:
 --
 [1]
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=2.51848amp;lat=48.80986amp;zoom=10amp;open_sidebar=map_keyamp;fullscreen=true
 [2]
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=5.80635amp;lat=46.05588amp;zoom=17amp;fullscreen=true
 [3]
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=6.19542amp;lat=46.07335amp;zoom=14amp;fullscreen=true
 [4] http://www.infos-reseaux.com
 [5] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] newbie questions about building outlines

[Shaun McDonald]

On 30 Apr 2014, at 09:52, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Tom wrote:
 
 In many other areas of inner London, particularly residential (e.g. 
 http://binged.it/1iByiPy), 
 the typologies and shapes are pretty easy to understand from aerial imagery 
 so you 
 can accurately guess individual buildings.
 
 Perhaps it is just me, but I don’t think residential buildings without 
 addresses are worth adding to OSM, and you can’t get addresses without a 
 survey (or spot the odd business that may be hidden amongst them).

I’d be quite happy for someone to trace buildings, and all I had to do was 
update the house numbers, as the buildings are so hard to draw when on the 
ground. I often use Vespucci for editing on the ground, thus don’t need to 
spend ages once I get home editing.

Shaun


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[Talk-GB] Fwd: [Talk-scotland] Shetland-Orkney ferry and NCN 1

[Shaun McDonald]

Here’s some info from someone who used to live on Shetland and has visited 
recently, and is an OSM mapper who isn’t on the list.

Begin forwarded message:

 From: John Robert Peterson jrp@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Talk-scotland] Shetland-Orkney ferry and NCN 1
 Date: 26 March 2014 18:00:17 GMT
 To: Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk
 
 I'm pretty sure there are issues with ferries around orkney too, last time I 
 checked, there are 2 ferries that link Orkney to the mainland, and one goes 
 to aberdeen.
 
 I sugest someone with proper cycling experience does a proper audit of edits 
 done by the user in question in the area on the offchance that there is a 
 pattern.
 
 JR
 
 
 On 26 March 2014 17:55, John Robert Peterson jrp@gmail.com wrote:
 unless there have been some very significant, and budgetarilly unlikely, 
 changes, there is a ferry from sumburgh to fairisle, but it goes no further.
 
 There is however a proper big ferry that goes from Lerwick to Aberdeen with a 
 stop off every second night in Orkney. 
 
 I've been in Orkney many times, but only ever in the middle of the night 
 while trying to sleep, a bunch of blokes trying down cargo with remarkably 
 noisy equipment. so I can't comment on the Orkney side. 
 
 
 On 26 March 2014 17:20, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote:
 Dunno if you know the answer to this?
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
  From: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net
  Subject: [Talk-scotland] Shetland-Orkney ferry and NCN 1
  Date: 26 March 2014 17:19:25 GMT
  To: talk-scotl...@openstreetmap.org
 
  Hello Scotland,
 
  Someone has pointed out that OSM currently has NCN 1 going by ferry to 
  Grutness/Sumburgh:
 
  http://cycle.travel/map?lat=59.8714lon=-1.2772zoom=13
  http://opencyclemap.org/?zoom=11lat=59.8689lon=-1.27559layers=B000
 
  whereas the ferries actually go to Lerwick.
 
  P2 tells me that the way in question was created by a German mapper last 
  summer. I can't see any information anywhere about a Kirkwall-Grutness 
  ferry, but then I've never been north of John O'Groats!
 
  Could someone with local knowledge correct/amend as applicable? Better to 
  have this section of NCN 1 missing than send people on a non-existent 
  ferry, I think.
 
  cheers
  Richard
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Not attaching polygons to roads

[Shaun McDonald]

It would be so much simpler if people would just map the area of the road as 
landuse=highway, in as similar fashion to landuse=railway.

Shaun

On 20 Feb 2014, at 22:40, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Hi,
 
 On 20.02.2014 23:04, Dave F. wrote:
 There's a general consensus that attaching polygons to ways that
 represent roads was a bad idea.
 
 Not really.
 
 There is not a consensus but a ceasefire. Everyone is free to map this
 as they like, and to change it if there's a need - e.g. someone else has
 connected the field to the road, now you want to map the fence, so you
 need to split it apart. That's ok. Similarly, someone re-doing the whole
 area from better imagery or whatever has every right to map as he
 pleases - if they thing they can be more efficient by joining
 boundaries, more power to them.
 
 What is *not* ok is one person cleaning up after the other without
 actually adding any other improvement.
 
 I.e. if the other guy has connected the fields and the roads and you
 have been *only* pulling them apart without contributing anything else
 to the area in question, then you should have let them be; on the other
 hand, if the other guy has merged fields and roads that previously were
 separate, then they shouldn't have done that.
 
 This whole question is essentially a matter of taste, and you are
 allowed to map according to your taste, and discouraged from enforcing
 your taste for others.
 
 Bye
 Frederik
 
 -- 
 Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] name=Flooding

[Shaun McDonald]

Also while around York the past couple of days, I noticed various flood 
barriers being closed, thus closing some roads to access. Is there a way to tag 
a flood barrier or gate?

Shaun

On 12 Feb 2014, at 12:25, jonathan jonat...@bigfatfrog67.me wrote:

 I agree it isn't, however, considering the current conditions some parts of 
 the country are experiencing, the continuing weather forecasts of more to 
 come and the fact that the ground water is so high that this water won't be 
 going anywhere soon, then perhaps we should apply some tagging to areas that 
 people have kindly already mapped.  Maybe highways should be marked as 
 impassable?  The Highways Agency etc are producing such lists.
 
 We would need to revisit these areas to remove it as they subside but this 
 information is invaluable to many people, agencies, charities, gov 
 departments etc.
 
 There's also a historical benefit having  areas mapped as having previously 
 flooded, either as live ways tagged accordingly or as old deleted ways that 
 nevertheless are still accessible.
 
 If the HOT team had been activated for this then we would be doing this sort 
 of thing just as has been done in many other parts of the World.
 
 I'm beginning to think we are not stepping up to provide this unique mapping 
 requirement that no other mapping service is providing.
 
 Jonathan
 
 http://bigfatfrog67.me
 
 On 10/02/2014 17:29, Steve Doerr wrote:
 Is this an appropriate use of the name tag?
 
 http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=Flooding%2C+Burrowbridge
 
 Steve
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] POI features: node vs way?

[Shaun McDonald]

The osmconvert has the ability to turn all the areas and ways to single nodes:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmconvert

Shaun

On 26 Jan 2014, at 10:15, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi -
 
 Definitely you should _not_ tag both the polygon and a node. That
 creates two objects, and many systems will then think there are two
 pubs!
 
 This is articulated in this principle:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element
 
 If you have a need for POIs as point features, simply convert all
 relevant ways/relations into nodes while populating your database.
 It's very easy to calculate the centroid (average position) of nodes
 in a way.
 
 Dan
 
 2014-01-26 Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk:
 
 Hi,
 
 Have noticed here in the UK an increasing tendency to tag polygons rather
 than points with the POI tags e.g. amenity=pub, railway=station.
 
 This is good for many uses, however in some use cases (e.g. my own, I have a
 need to populate a database with POIs as point features) it can cause
 difficulty.
 
 What is the general recommendation in this case? Tag both the polygon
 (building) and one of its nodes as amenity=pub, etc?
 
 Thanks,
 Nick
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM should delete image caches on exit

[Shaun McDonald]

On 12 Jan 2014, at 21:32, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 12/01/2014, hbogner hbog...@gmail.com wrote:
 No it should not delete cache on exit!!!
 
 Possibility to chose that would be OK, but automatic delete would be
 terrible.
 
 Agreed. The usual configurarion for caches is a maximal disk usage,
 deleting LRU entries when that size is reached. That's far better than
 flushing the cache at certain points in time. Give it a good default
 value (500MB ?) and most users will never need to worry about the
 feature.
 

If it’s configurable then those with slower internet connections thus want a 
larger cache, and those who prefer a smaller cache to minimise disk space usage 
can both be happy.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] Royal Mail Parcelforce delivery offices

[Shaun McDonald]

On 12 Jan 2014, at 13:03, Borbus bor...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 12/01/14 12:30, Andy Street wrote:
 On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 11:52:02 +
 John Aldridge j...@jjdash.demon.co.uk wrote:
 
 Is there a consensus on how to tag Royal Mail  Parcel Force delivery
 offices?
 
 Are these amenity=post_office, or something else?
 
 If there is a facility that allows the general public access to collect
 or send mail then I'd consider amenity=post_office to be appropriate.
 
 
 
 They're not Post Offices, though.  Post Office (capitalised) has a very 
 specific meaning in the UK, with more services than just posting letters.  It 
 depends what we want amenity=post_office to mean but I'd say at a minimum 
 without further tags it should mean you can actually post something.  If 
 someone goes to a Local Delivery Office with a parcel to post they will be in 
 for a surprise.
 

I agree, we need a different tag for delivery offices compared to post offices 
which are significantly different. If a lay person searches for a post office 
they need to get what they expect to be a post office. I’ve recently come 
across someone who was essentially saying OSM is confusing due to the problems 
with the located in parts of the Nominatim search results being wrong. A 
similar thing will happen here.

Delivery Offices will pretty much only accept prearranged parcels and pickups.

The pickup of parcels from Post Offices is a fairly recent change.

Companies such as Collect Plus and myHermes operate through newsagents and 
smaller supermarkets, thus I’d say it’s a property of the shop rather than 
being an amenity itself within the shop as it’s the same counter that you buy 
stuff from where you drop off and collect the parcels.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-transit] Close stations having the same name

[Shaun McDonald]

On 19 Dec 2013, at 12:46, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:

 2013/12/19 Erik Johansson e...@kth.se
 ... if you see it in a routing data base
 it's almost impossible to know which is which unless you name them
 differently.
 
 How is it impossible? If it has bus=yes, it's a bus station. If it has 
 train=yes it's a train station. Where's the problem?

What about search and routing engines returning the expected result for exact 
sign of the name of the local station? As a traveller it’s annoying to be told 
to go to x station, only to get there and find it’s the underground or some 
other variant that you are actually after and could have got there more 
directly.

Shaun

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Re: [OSM-talk] API URL cannot be resolved (was Re: Welcome box on the new map page)

[Shaun McDonald]

If you go to api.openstreetmap.org in your browser it is expected that it 
redirects to www.openstreetmap.org.

Shaun

On 1 Dec 2013, at 04:11, Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com wrote:

 Why can't I upload with JOSM today?  Is it related to the new UI changes?
 
 I get this error:
 Failed to open a connection to the remote 
 server 'http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/'. Host 
 name 'api.openstreetmap.org' could not be resolved. Please check the API URL 
 in your preferences and your internet connection.
 
 Has the URL for the API changed?  Nothing has changed at my end.
 
 I notice that api.openstreetmap.org takes me to the map.  Is that right?
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Andrew
 
 
 
 
 On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 10:43:53 Paul Norman wrote:
 From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
 Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:51 PM
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page
 
 Which is why I simply ask that the old layout is made available again as
 
 that
 
 only requires access to pages that already exist.
 
 There would be time costs in supporting the code for what are essentially
 duplicates of other pages. You have to test every change against both sets
 of pages, and then there is the distinct code that appears in one but not
 the other.
 
 What is currently being offered is probably acceptable to users who are
 there with a view to contributing, and then requiring registration makes
 sense, but for the vast majority of visitors brought here by USERS of
 the data it's just not right.
 
 In EWG I brought up the opinion that a UI change should be evaluated on a)
 how well it converts visitors to mappers b) how well it retains
 visitors. Of course these are hard to measure, and it's not like the old
 site was rigerously evaluated against these criteria.
 
 The new site seems to be much better at directing visitors into becoming
 mappers. I have also shown it to inexperienced and new mappers and they
 found it an improvement.
 
 I know that there is a lot of support for NOT providing services
 
 I'd say there's a wide desire for offering services like OWL and routing
 on OSM.org. Of course, these take development hours, time, and money, so
 a wide desire doesn't translate into actually adding the services.
 
 but until a suitable replacement can be created for the many thousands of
 
 us
 
 using embeded maps, maintaining usable operation is important. The
 current changes are not compatible with using the embed function so THAT
 should have beendepricated first and time provided for us to make
 changes to existing usage!
 
 I looked at the embed HTML generated, and I don't see what doesn't work.
 All the links are valid, and the page that you land (the front page)
 seems more likely to covert the visitor to a mapper, because it now
 gives some text to explain where they've ended up.
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Shaun McDonald]

On 1 Dec 2013, at 10:25, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:

 Paul Norman wrote:
 I know that there is a lot of support for NOT providing services
 I'd say there's a wide desire for offering services like OWL and routing
 on OSM.org. Of course, these take development hours, time, and money, so
 a wide desire doesn't translate into actually adding the services.
 
 but until a suitable replacement can be created for the many thousands of
 us
 using embeded maps, maintaining usable operation is important. The
 current changes are not compatible with using the embed function so THAT
 should have beendepricated first and time provided for us to make
 changes to existing usage!
 I looked at the embed HTML generated, and I don't see what doesn't work.
 All the links are valid, and the page that you land (the front page)
 seems more likely to covert the visitor to a mapper, because it now
 gives some text to explain where they've ended up.
 
 Some how I don't think we are looking at the new front page the same way ...
 
 It's the very fact that it IS designed to make 'convert to mapper' the 
 REQUIRED result that is the problem. What is preferable is a half way house 
 that provides the information ON THE ONE PAGE that can be used as the 'Larger 
 View' from the embeded versions. I don't see why simply restoring the old 
 front page for that purpose should be any additional work? The map used on 
 that page can be the new view and switches to the mapping front end when 
 someone has time to follow that path. I can see a compromise that gives an 
 information panel to the right in place of the welcome box but supporting 
 THAT needs work, where a simple 'old.osm' url would be a lot less work?
 
 It sounds as if I'm going to have to create my own site to support this ... 
 While I can see that on the whole the new front end has a number of nice 
 features it IS too targeted at a different goal, and as an information page 
 for OSM it fails miserably so something better is needed! The wiki front page 
 is a bit of a mess, but is much more useful now, but the fundamental problem 
 of taking new mappers to LOCAL support is even less well supported now? It 
 seems that everybody has to work in English if they want to use OSM :(

You could implement something similar to what Leaflet Maps Marker WordPress 
plugin has done and provide a full screen alternative.
 http://www.mapsmarker.com/ 

osm.org is aimed at mappers and people mapping, rather than as a general 
purpose go to site for navigation.

Shaun

 
 And I still need to find out where the 'export' is intended to go? Is that 
 were we should be able to create embeded frames or somewhere else? Share does 
 not provide the material and hacking the code manually is not something 
 novice users can do easily. In the past my clients could play with this, but 
 at present there is nothing suitable.
 
 -- 
 Lester Caine - G8HFL
 -
 Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
 L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
 EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
 Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
 Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Primary or Trunk?

[Shaun McDonald]

On 3 Nov 2013, at 20:17, Robert Norris rw_nor...@hotmail.com wrote:

 
 Sorry if I've not seen the old posts on this, the wiki pages are
 contradictory which is why I asked the question.
 
 In the UK we are defining Trunk or Primary based on some arbitrary
 definition not on anything that is of use to any user or renderer.
 
 What we should be mapping is reality, so that people can use that data
 to build on. Whether a road is signed in Green, Pink or Purple tells a
 user nothing, it may have a legal definition but that is all. The tag
 we give it should tell the user something about the road's capabilities,
 importance, size and potential timings/traffic flow. A Trunk road that
 is a dual carriageway with a maxspeed of 70 mph is very different to a
 Trunk road that winds around fields and has a maxspeed of 50 mph or less!
 
 Other tags such as lanes=*, width=*, surface=*, maxspeed=* etc... are for 
 more the detailed nuances of route calculations based on the physical 
 properties of the road. Or for how a renderer could choose to emphasize 
 certain roads over others.
 
 Of course the bendyness of the road should be interfered from the geometry of 
 the node positions themselves.
 

ITO World make a series of maps which highlight some of the above additional 
tags that can be added to OSM so that routers can decide whether each road is 
suitable based on objective data, rather than broad generalisations.

http://www.itoworld.com/map/group/2

Shaun McDonald
Developer
ITO World
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Re: [Talk-GB] Notes feature

[Shaun McDonald]

That should use another first world object as a calendar item so that it’s 
properly supported.

Shaun

On 28 Oct 2013, at 08:28, Bob Kerr openstreetmapcraigmil...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 Maybe we could use it to make an note for mapping parties, social events and 
 conferences too
 
 Bob
 
 From: Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com
 To: Talk GB talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
 Sent: Sunday, 27 October 2013, 16:15
 Subject: [Talk-GB] Notes feature
 
 It seems that some businesses are starting to use the notes feature to 
 identify their location, thinking it's just like Googlemaps perhaps. I think 
 we should encourage this by separating the notes function into 2 , adequately 
 labelled, one for  place your business/event here and one for map 
 improvement needed here
 
 Regards
 
 Brian
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Notes feature

[Shaun McDonald]

The place your business here may be better dealt with through clickable POIs on 
the OSM site, plus some dot or something for every shop/address available.

Shaun

On 27 Oct 2013, at 16:15, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:

 It seems that some businesses are starting to use the notes feature to 
 identify their location, thinking it's just like Googlemaps perhaps. I think 
 we should encourage this by separating the notes function into 2 , adequately 
 labelled, one for  place your business/event here and one for map 
 improvement needed here
 
 Regards
 
 Brian
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Re: [Talk-GB] Advice needed for maxweight turning restriction

[Shaun McDonald]

The oneway except cyclists bit is a well defined thing, whereby you can use the 
tag cycleway=opposite. You can be more specific by saying opposite_lane, or 
opposite_track as appropriate. (There are other way to tag the same thing which 
may be appropriate).

Shaun

On 12 Oct 2013, at 21:00, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:

 I came across an odd situation where a road is on way, except for cycles
 and vehicles over 13'3 high. Its a residential area of Shrewsbury which
 would be a useful rat run, hence the oneway. But to make it complicated,
 there is are industrial units, and a low bridge.
 
 Not sure of a better way, but have added a note.
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39348226
 
 Phil (trigpoint) 
 
 
 
 On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 20:11 +0100, Ed Loach wrote:
 ael wrote:
 
 I have a road with a maxweight (7.5t) sign at one end but none at
 the
 other end. So I take it that this means that vehicles over this
 weight
 may not enter from that end.
 
 I have used relation tagged with
 type=restriction:maxweight
 maxweight = 7.5
 restriction = no_entry
 
 including the relevant ways with from and to roles.
 
 This was my best guess from what I could find on the wiki.
 
 Is this the right way (in the UK)? Or will it be interpreted as
 no-entry
 for all vehicles by routers?
 
 I mapped a road which had different maxweight restrictions depending
 on which way you entered it:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/55165330
 I used maxweight:forward and maxweight:backward based if I remember
 correctly on IRC discussion and this wiki page:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Forward_%26_backward,_left_%26_ri
 ght
 
 No relations needed. In your case you would only need to tag either
 forward or backward depending on the way direction.
 
 Whether routers spot these tags currently or not I don't know; I
 personally doubt it. But they may in the future if they don't
 already.
 
 I hope this helps,
 
 Ed
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Deprecated tag status

[Shaun McDonald]

I don’t know why it should be deprecated as it is still majorly in use. The 
reasons for changing the tagging aren’t good enough. There’s no need to black 
list a tag due to some things being mistagged. It would be much better to keep 
the old one and improving the tagging of all the current objects that aren’t 
tagged correctly. Adding more details to a tag doesn’t require black listing it 
either.

Shaun

On 12 Sep 2013, at 11:50, François Lacombe 
francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Shouldn't we use some deprecated status on tag info box on wiki pages when 
 the tag is as such ?
 
 Example here : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dstation
 
 Status is Approved but this tag is deprecated too.
 
 It will be more user friendly and representative, better than a big don't 
 use it at the top of the page.
 
 
 Cheers.
 
 
 François Lacombe
 
 francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
 http://www.infos-reseaux.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset comments

[Shaun McDonald]

On 5 Oct 2013, at 11:02, sabas88 saba...@gmail.com wrote:

 2013/10/5 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
 
 
  Am 05/ott/2013 um 09:47 schrieb sabas88 saba...@gmail.com:
 
  when editing outside my country, I try to give changeset comments in 
  english to let other mappers understand what I did in their area.
 
 
 wouldn't it make sense to use English also when editing inside your own 
 country?
 
 This is imho too far, if I map in my country and I make a local change why I 
 should write in english? Another topic could be if the changeset involves an 
 import or a discussed large scale edit...
  

Taken another way, when on holiday in another country where I don't know the 
language well enough to be able to talk/write it, I'll write in English a 
language that I do know. There are translation tools out there, thus although a 
tad awkward, can be used to get and idea of what has been written.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] State of the map Scotland 2013 - 6 days away

[Shaun McDonald]

On 5 Oct 2013, at 14:13, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote:

 On Saturday 05 October 2013, Bob Kerr wrote:
 Counting down to State of the map Scotland 2013
 
 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_Scotland_2013
 
 Please send out messages to your social media of choice
 
 
 Booked my megabus gold tickets last night.
 
 What are numbers looking like so far?
 

Check the following lists of who is planning to attend:
http://sotms.eventbrite.com
https://stateofthemapscotland2013hackday.eventbrite.com
and
http://lanyrd.com/2013/sotmscot2013/

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] Who interprets semicolon in tag values?

[Shaun McDonald]

On 24 Sep 2013, at 10:55, Elena ``of Valhalla'' elena.valha...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 On 2013-09-24 at 09:31:09 +, Philip Barnes wrote:
 Bank and ATM are more or less synonymous these days, I cannot think of a 
 bank without an ATM. The interesting ATM tags are the ones that are not at a 
 bank.
 
 it's not true everywhere in the world: at least in italy there 
 are small banks with no (external) ATM, where you have to enter 
 the bank (in the usually short opening hours), go to the counter 
 and then you can get money (using your debit card).
 

I have come across banks in the UK without an external ATM. The way I map an 
ATM at a bank is to use the tag amenity=bank;atm=yes. I have for a big store, 
put a node on the building outline and put amenity=atm on that node so that you 
know where on the building edge there is an ATM. Thus similar to building 
entrance mapping.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions

[Shaun McDonald]

On 10 Sep 2013, at 07:05, Andrew andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:

 Tom Chance tom@... writes:
 
 
 Here's another one, this editor really ought to be fixed or
 removed:http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17655245
 I tried using the JOSM Revert plugin, but it just downloaded the nodes
 without the way.
 Tom
 
 Were the landuse areas attached to roads?

It’s rather easy in iD to click the middle of an area and select the area.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] Phone numbers in little England

[Shaun McDonald]

There are some areas where you must dial the area code, so that there is enough 
numbers available in the area. I've always dialled the full number, thus don't 
see what the fuss is about area codes.

Shaun

On 22 Aug 2013, at 11:42, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:

 
 So to dial Portsmouth from Southampton you need only do 92xx ? Not tried 
 it.
 
 Really, to make 023 a Solent area code though in any meaningful sense, you 
 need Fareham, Gosport, Hedge End, Whiteley etc to all be in the 023 area.
 
 Nick
 
 -Andy Street m...@andystreet.me.uk wrote: -
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 From: Andy Street m...@andystreet.me.uk
 Date: 22/08/2013 11:10AM
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Phone numbers in little England
 
 On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:31:49 +0100
 Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
 
  On 22/08/13 09:01, Lester Caine wrote:
  
   Personally I still think of 0207 as Inner London and 0208 as Outer
   London, but moving the 7/8 as part of the exchange sort of makes
   sense these days.
  
  Well you think incorrectly then, as that has not been the case for
  some time, either in theory or in practice. On top of which 0203 is
  now in use as well...
 
 
 I don't think the UK population has really cottoned on to the idea of
 three digit area codes. We have a similar situation here on the South
 Coast where some people think the area code is 02380 for Southampton and
 02392 for Portsmouth when it is actually 023 for the whole area. I do
 sometimes wonder whether it is a simple misunderstanding or the old
 local rivalry and not wanting to get lumped in with that lot at the
 other end of the M27! ;)
 
 -- 
 Regards,
 
 Andy Street
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Www.openstreetmap.org Down?

[Shaun McDonald]

Works fine here.

Always worth trying out something like http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com

Shaun

On 14 Aug 2013, at 20:33, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is it?
 
 -- 
 Steve
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Evernote Atlas for Windows using OSM

[Shaun McDonald]

It's MapBox tiles (assuming it's the same as on the Mac), and was launched on 
the Mac last Novemeber:
http://www.mapbox.com/blog/evernote-geocoding-custom-maps/

Shaun

On 1 Aug 2013, at 12:11, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:

 Thought you might like to know: the beta version of the new Evernote client 
 for Windows which came out this week appears to use OpenStreetMap maps for 
 its geolocation of notes (the Atlas section, where it pins notes to the 
 locations where they were created). I don't recognise the tiles (maybe they 
 made their own, but I doubt it).
 
 For those that aren't familiar with it, Evernote is a very prominent cloud 
 service for storing and indexing notes and attachments. Curiously they use a 
 whole range of maps - the iOS client uses Apple maps, the web client uses 
 Google. I don't know whether they are planning on moving all their clients to 
 OSM.
 
 (The Beta doesn't acknowledge OSM, but I pointed this out to them and they 
 have said they will add attribution properly; I don't know when they plan to 
 make this the supported release, but anyone can install it currently).
 
 David
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some lag in the backend data?

[Shaun McDonald]

On 23 Jul 2013, at 10:27, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:

 I made some changes this morning [1], most notably added some maxspeed tags. 
 Now it's over 3 hours later and I download the same area again in JOSM and my 
 changes are not visible.
 But when I look at the history of the items (e.g. way 6701036), the change is 
 there. The history says highway=residential and maxspeed=30. JOSM does not 
 show that on the item.
 I also can not open the changeset in my browser, it is trying to load now for 
 5 minutes.
 
 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17057508

This url opened straight away for me.

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] Double-clicking on OSM map does not centre the map

[Shaun McDonald]

The double click to centre currently works in leaflet at the maximum zoom.

Shaun

On 22 Jul 2013, at 16:13, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Hi,
 
 On 07/22/2013 05:04 PM, Maarten Deen wrote:
 What is wrong with having more and better features? What is the added
 value of removing features?
 
 At the time, Leaflet was considered to be the better overall framework, with 
 nicer looks and better usability on mobile devices, and much smaller load 
 times on slow connections due to its compact size.
 
 It was a relatively quick and painless move if I remember correctly, and 
 nobody complained at the time.
 
 The fact that the double-click-to-centre-map functionality went away at that 
 time went unnoticed (I am surprised because I occasionally used it as well).
 
 It certainly wasn't a clear decision to remove a feature - it was just that 
 Leaflet seemed better.
 
 Nobody's saying that Leaflet must stay forever; I have heard that with recent 
 improvements to OpenLayers, some people even switched back to OpenLayers 
 after using Leaflet for a while. That's an option we certainly have 
 available; or we can improve Leaflet to add what we feel is missing.
 
 But nobody has removed a feature on purpose.
 
 Bye
 Frederik
 
 -- 
 Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Would some wiki admin please move the page gluten_free=* back to proposal namespace

[Shaun McDonald]

On 4 Jul 2013, at 22:04, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote:

 cuisine=vegetarian has 871 uses
 diet:vegetarian has 456 uses
 
 Because diet:... is approved people are suddenly allowed to write on
 both the cuisine page and the diet:... page that you shouldn't use
 cuisine=vegetarian?

As far as I'm concerned the above 2 tags have 2 different meaning:
cuisine=vegetarian is a restaurant that specialises in serving vegetarian food 
and you won't get meat there.
Whereas diet:vegetarian is a restaurant that has a reasonable vegetarian 
selection in their menu and could serve fish and meat etc.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] ITO's OSM Analysis updated with the latest OS Locator data

[Shaun McDonald]

Adding not:name is the correct method to resolve these errors and remove them 
from the list, as they are otherwise tagged correctly in OSM with the name and 
ref detailed separately.

Shaun

On 18 May 2013, at 10:51, Donald Noble drno...@gmail.com wrote:

 I notice that in Glasgow there are 9 road segments flagged up for 
 name=London Road (A74) which is correctly in OSM as name=London Road 
 ref=A74. 
 
 I can add not:name to suppress these, but not sure if this is something that 
 is being flagged up elsewhere in country, and if this is something that could 
 (easily) be tweaked in the algorithm.
 
 Cheers, Donald
 
 -- 
 Donald Noble
 http://drnoble.co.uk - http://flickr.com/photos/drnoble
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[Talk-GB] ITO's OSM Analysis updated with the latest OS Locator data

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi,

The ITO OSM Analysis comparison between OSM and OS Locator has been updated 
with the latest OS Locator data released this month.

http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main

There has been a small dip in the completeness with a noticeable drop in the 
number at 100%. There hasn't been any area dropping to a lower coloured band. 
We're currently at 95.91% completeness with 35,846 major differences.

Shaun McDonald
Developer
ITO World 
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

[Shaun McDonald]

On 12 May 2013, at 18:41, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote:

 On 05/12/2013 03:41 PM, Tom Hughes wrote:
 No, but I am saying that we have a history of not necessarily allowing
 the complaints of the people creating crazily complicated systems of
 relations to have a veto on what editors are or are not allowed to do.
 
 Simple cycle and hiking route relations are not crazily complicated and
 a very visible part of the openstreetmap ecosystem. If something breaks
 them silently when doing normal editing, then that is not something that
 should simply be ignored.
 
 What I think is funny though, is that when I fixed some routes
 yesterday, the biggest errors were created by JOSM users. If you work on
 a route and use the download incomplete members option. JOSM doesn't
 warn you when splitting or merging roads outside of the initially loaded
 bounding box. So you can damage other routes without any warning. Yes,
 this actually happens.

Maybe the continuous download plugin should be installed and enabled by default 
in JOSM (with some tweaks to not download massive areas when zoomed out) to get 
around this issue? 

Shaun
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tidying up some shop tags

[Shaun McDonald]

On 5 May 2013, at 14:51, Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com wrote:

 On 05/05/2013 14:25, sk53.osm wrote:
 I propose to tidy up some shop=* tag values.
 
 Synonyms fine but not specific products/services to generic ones as this 
 deletes useful information.
 
 e.g:
 Shops that do key cutting are rarely locksmiths.
 sandwich shops are a subset of fast food shops, as are fish  chip shops. 
 That is important when you are looking for a sandwich rather than a burger.
 

In terms of the fish and chips, you use the cuisine tag to state that it's a 
fast food fish and chip shop ;-)

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM relation ID property in Wikidata

[Shaun McDonald]

On 4 May 2013, at 10:47, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote:

 On 4 May 2013 00:49, Claus Stadler cstad...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Shouldn't OSM use Wikipedia URLs as UUIDs where applicable rather than
 Wikipedia referring to database identifiers? (The answer is a clear 'yes'
 from my side.)
 In fact there are the (wikipedia, *) tags - but not sure how good the
 quality is - what can be seen on a first glance is, that people mix URLs and
 article names, and also encoding.
 
 Wikipedia URLs are themselves potentially unstable, though - it's
 usually more or less okay for geographic places, since we tend to have
 fixed naming systems, but to pick a high-profile example, the URL
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth has at various times over the past
 ten years pointed to Perth in Perthshire, Perth in Western Australia,
 and a placeholder disambiguator page.
 
 (They are also, of course, language-dependent, but that's another
 kettle of fish)

Being language dependant isn't as issue as you simply state the language of the 
article name used, and then through interwiki links can link to the appropriate 
article in any wikipedia language.

Shaun

 
 Wikidata entities are (with a few caveats) static and
 language-independent (eg https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3183 ), and
 could potentially be useful here - but they're not human-readable and
 you'd have to rely on an API to convert them into page titles, which
 seems like it might not be desirable.
 
 -- 
 - Andrew Gray
  andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Writing a howto wiki page for mapping golf courses

[Shaun McDonald]

There is also an ITO Map for Golf courses: http://www.itoworld.com/map/47

Shaun

On 30 Apr 2013, at 12:07, sk53.osm sk53@gmail.com wrote:

 Have you seen Richard Weait's page on this subject : http://weait.com/node/21.
 
 And fewer of those named ways to make the hole names look nice :-)
 
 Jerry
 
 
 On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Bob Kerr 
 openstreetmapcraigmil...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I have been spending a lot of time looking at Taginfo and golf courses. I 
 would like to layout the best way to map a golf course based on what I have 
 found. 
 
 I was thinking of creating a page HOWTO map a golf course 2013
 
 This is not a proposal for tags, I would link to Taginfo pages of tags that 
 are already used, this would just help with data consistency.
 
 My reasoning comes from the idea that mappers like a challenge like a golf 
 course, much like they do a zoo. In Scotland there are between 530-630 golf 
 courses. This would be useful if the data were consistent. It would also get 
 the golfing community talking about openstreetmap and there are a 
 considerable number of golfers
 
 Are there any precedents for HOWTO pages
 
 Cheers
 
 Bob
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] 10 fascinating facts about OSM OSGB

[Shaun McDonald]

Not all of NaPTAN was imported. It was only done in some regions. It still 
needs the maintenance, i.e. updating from the updates from NaPTAN too, however 
no tools have been built to make this happen yet.

Shaun

On 18 Apr 2013, at 11:41, Barnett, Phillip phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk wrote:

 I thought that we’d imported the NAPTAN dataset, which should mean we have 
 ALL the bus stops in the UK? So why do OSGB have more?
  
 
  
 
 PHILLIP BARNETT
 SERVER MANAGER
 
 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD
 LONDON
 WC1X 8XZ
 UNITED KINGDOM
 T +44 207 430 4474
 E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk
 WWW.ITN.CO.UK
 P  Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?
  
 From: sk53.osm [mailto:sk53@gmail.com] 
 Sent: 18 April 2013 10:28
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-GB] 10 fascinating facts about OSM  OSGB
  
 OSGB has just tweeted it's 10 fascinating facts. I thought it would be fun to 
 compare with OSM
 Pylons: 80,517 ; 58,487 (OSM)
 Post Boxes: 93.728 (OSGB); 42,742 (OSM)
 Camp sites: 8,908 (OSGB); 1 274 (camp_site) + 1 918 (caravan_site) = 3,192 
 (OSM)
 Buildings: 35,397,754 (OSGB); 1,890,835 (OSM)
 Bus Stops: 354,099 (OSGB); 215,720 (OSM)
 2,115,006 (OSGB);
 Petrol Stations: 7,702 (OSGB); 5,197 (OSM)
 Addresses: 27,341,262 (OSGB); 532,886 (OSM)
 Electricity Poles: 183, 987 (OSGB); 94,199 (OSM)
 Road length: 407,532 km (OSGB); 522,627 (OSM)
 Of course there is no guarantee we are comparing like for like (although its 
 only power=pole which looks suspiciously high, I suspect we map low power 
 lines not included by OSGB).
 
 All values from UK taginfo (except for road length, which I queried from a 
 snapshot schema), no data merging or need to query multiple sources, and 
 certainly no need for an IBM Netezza appliance.
 
 I thought I'd add a few more quirky OSM values:
 
 5 post boxes with Edward VIII's royal cypher
 only 110 War Memorials 
 1830 Police and 1518 Fire Stations
 847 Fire Hydrants (see above)
 1378 establishments purveying Real Ale, and 156 Real Cider out of 32,624 Pubs 
 and 1717 Bars (including 1 with ale_supply_limited, and ONLY 1 with 
 osm:london=approval)
 4771 Bicycle Parking locations
 around 300http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=hide#values 
 bird/wildlife hides
 2 knitting shops (shows gender of mappers I suspect)
 5552 stiles
 1774 canal locks
 Jerry
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] 10 fascinating facts about OSM OSGB

[Shaun McDonald]

On 18 Apr 2013, at 12:33, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

 On 18/04/2013 11:59, SomeoneElse wrote:
 Shaun McDonald wrote:
 Not all of NaPTAN was imported. It was only done in some regions. It still 
 needs the maintenance, i.e. updating from the updates from NaPTAN too, 
 however no tools have been built to make this happen yet.
 
 In the other direction there's also a slight double-counting effect where 
 data was imported in some regions but bus stops (without the NaPTAN detail) 
 was already present.
 
 Cheers,
 Andy
 
 And a couple of occasions where I accidentally deleted them  Potlatch 
 couldn't retrieve. As the imports that have occurred appeared to go fairly 
 seamlessly, is there any objection why it can't be rolled out nationally?
 Would updating code be hard to write? Half of it must have been written for 
 the initial import.
 

Updates are a lot harder to do as you have to deal with differences, however 
the newish snapshot server tool by Andy Allan is a possible manual solution to 
that.

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] 10 fascinating facts about OSM OSGB

[Shaun McDonald]

On 18 Apr 2013, at 13:01, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

 On 18/04/2013 12:52, Shaun McDonald wrote:
 Updates are a lot harder to do as you have to deal with differences
 
 When you say differences, do you mean within the tags? Does it need to do 
 that, could it not do a simpler find  replace?

If someone has modified the item in OSM and in NaPTAN then it needs manual 
intervention as to which is more correct - the one in OSM or the one in NaPTAN. 

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] Area tags in Overpass API

[Shaun McDonald]

On 22 Mar 2013, at 19:58, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 as of now, Overpass API has limited support for area queries: There is a
 whitelist¹ of cases where relations and closed ways are treated as
 areas. Most of the time it requires a name in addition to certain other
 tags. Specifically, I stumbled upon the limitation that closed ways with
 a building key are only treated as an area if they have a name (and use
 the yes building value).

Why just building=yes? I do my best to be more descriptive on the type of 
building that it is, such as whether it is residential, industrial, commercial, 
retail etc.

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] TileMill performance

[Shaun McDonald]

I have found some combinations of stylesheet rules that suddenly cause the 
carto to take a long time to generate, however I've not managed to find a very 
small version that exhibits the issue: 
https://github.com/mapbox/carto/issues/213 The generated mapnik XML often isn't 
as compact as it could be.

Shaun

On 4 Mar 2013, at 08:21, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
 effect on rendering time. I guess I can further decompose these db
 queries (#landuse, #leisure...), but is there anything else I can do
 to speed them up? Is this normal?
 
 Ok, yes, that's apparently what you need to do - with 21 layers, I'm
 now under 7 seconds for a full render. I wish there was a more elegant
 way though :/
 
 Steve
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign

[Shaun McDonald]

On 31 Oct 2012, at 16:02, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:

 On 31/10/2012 15:29, Andy Robinson wrote:
 Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] wrote:
 Sent: 31 October 2012 15:21
 To: Matt Williams
 Cc: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign
 
 
 On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:49, Matt Williams li...@milliams.com wrote:
 
 On 31 October 2012 14:37, David Fisher djfishe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 The pedestrianised main shopping street in Croydon has a sign with
 the following wording: Pedestrian Zone.  No vehicles except cycles
 and for loading 6pm-10am.
 How would you interpret that?  I see at least 3 possibilities:
 
 (a) Cycles permitted at any time; loading only permitted 6pm-10am
 (this is what I guess is the correct one)
 (b) Cycles and loading only permitted 6pm-10am (this would also make
 sense; i.e. cycling only outside shopping hours)
 (c) Restrictions apply 6pm-10am (clearly ludicrous!)
 (d) Something else?
 
 I'm guessing it's meant to be (a), but just thought I'd canvas
 opinion before tagging.
 
 I think I agree with (a). I would find it a little strange to disallow
 cycling just during the day (why not just ban it entirely?).
 
 The centre pedestrianised bit of Ipswich has cycling banned from 10:30am -
 4:30pm. It does get pretty busy during that time.
 http://goo.gl/maps/ouha1
 
 
 I'm not sure that's correct? Is it not just banning cyclists from cycling
 against the traffic flow during this period? The sign at the other end
 suggests its open to cyclists at all times in the direction of normal flow.
 
 (from your corrected link http://goo.gl/maps/SM2y9 )
 
 The key thing here is the sign it is underneath. The reference to cyclists in 
 the text is superfluous (and presumably not authorised by the DfT) because 
 the 'low flying motorbike' sign means no MOTOR vehicles, and a bike isn't a 
 motor vehicle. That's not just pedantry: there is a separate sign for banning 
 ALL vehicles, a simple red roundel with nothing inside it. There is no 
 restriction on bikes at any time according to that sign.
 
 Their traffic engineer needs sending back to sign school.
 

So some more info on this situation.

The intention was to allow cycling in both directions between the hours of 
4:30pm and 10:30 am. With vehicles for loading and service access in one 
direction only during those hours. However it's more recently turned out that 
it's not possible to legally sign a road like that.

Unfortunately there are a few cyclists who are spoiling it for everyone else, 
by cycling dangerously during the busy period, thus the probable plan is to not 
allow cycling all the time in terms of signage. (The police are happy to allow 
sensible cycling even if not allowed).

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] New user reinstating old railways in Norfolk

[Shaun McDonald]

It may be worth pointing out that you can have different view of the same data. 
For example ITO have a map highlighting the former railways:
http://www.itoworld.com/map/198#fullscreenlat=52.58151540618443lon=1.0302901709739063zoom=9

Shaun
ITO World Developer

On 18 Feb 2013, at 14:24, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com wrote:

 New user MATTHEW NIBARI [1] has created just two changesets [2], both
 yesterday (17th February). The OSM History viewer views of these are
 as follows:
 
 http://osmhv.openstreetmap.de/changeset.jsp?id=15065237
 http://osmhv.openstreetmap.de/changeset.jsp?id=15066769
 
 I've been though every way listed there, and every single change in
 both of these changesets involves changing railway=abandoned or
 railway=disused to railway=rail, and removing any highway=* tags. I
 haven't checked every way, but I expect that all these railway lines
 are indeed disused or abandoned, and so the previous tagging was
 correct.
 
 I sent Matthew a message a couple of hours ago through the OSM system
 to explain that our tagging should reflect the current reality, and
 that his changes are therefore inappropriate. His reply was that he
 was trying to track down old railway lines and make them easier to
 find in OSM. He didn't seem to see a problem with changing the
 tagging. His user page [1] includes the text If people are having
 problems please note the edited sections must not be changed for any
 reason so if anyone inbox me or changes it back, I will revert back if
 its put back suggesting he may revert any changes to his new tagging
 regardless of other's views. I've sent a second email half an hour ago
 to explain in more detail why current roads need to be tagged as roads
 and not railways, and suggested that he should discuss things with the
 community on talk-gb to find a suitable way to achieve his ends
 without messing up the map data for everyone else.
 
 At that stage I'd only found a couple of road-rail changes in one
 changeset, and wasn't aware of the History Viewer, so didn't know that
 *every* change was removing highway tags and changing to railway=rail.
 I thus wasn't sure whether the whole changeset would need reverting or
 just a part of it, and so I asked Matthew what his changes had
 involved. However, I think it's now clear that the whole of both
 changesets [3,4] need to be reverted. Presumably, this should be done
 as quickly as possible to avoid the risk of subsequent edits
 complicating things. I don't have any recent experience of doing
 reverts, so is there anyone reading this who would be able to do them
 instead?
 
 I haven't had a reply from Matthew to my second message yet, but once
 this has posted, I'll send him a web link to this thread.
 
 Many thanks,
 
 Robert.
 
 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MATTHEW%20NIBARI
 [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MATTHEW%20NIBARI/edits
 [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/15065237
 [4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/15066769
 
 -- 
 Robert Whittaker
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] State of the Map 2013 venue selected.

[Shaun McDonald]

It was due to the combination of costs, availability and suitability of venues. 
The best venue wasn't available a week later. Other venues weren't as suitable 
for the conference and would have cost significantly more.

Shaun

On 16 Feb 2013, at 23:04, Jeffrey Johnson ortel...@gmail.com wrote:

 I realize my opinion probably doesn't count for much, but I'm curious if 
 there is a reason this couldn't be held the following weekend (13-15) so that 
 those of us already traveling to the UK for FOSS4G (17-21) dont have a whole 
 week in between.
 
 Jeff
 
 On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
 ... but I don't want to spoil the surprise.  So don't read the link before 
 you click it.  :-)
 
 http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2013/02/16/state-of-the-map-2013-birmingham/
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Shaun McDonald]

Maybe the reason for the bad grammar of Twitter users is the 140 character 
limit, this people drop out words or letters to make it fit.

Shaun

On 9 Jan 2013, at 16:21, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:

 Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote:
 Ok, I'll bite...
 
 I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a group 
 Twitter caters specifically to), what are the odds you're going to be able 
 to make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?
 
 How do illiterate people use Twitter?
 Do illiterate people have no spatial knowledge that could be of use to the 
 wider world? Is there no way that Open spatial data could help illiterate 
 people?
 Is our audience people that look at osm.org and don't like social media?
 
 In my opinion OSM is going to really take off once we start making more use 
 of social media, or other means of participation, such as SMS messaging (the 
 sorts of things you couldn't do with closed spatial data, such as GMaps), and 
 start thinking less of pixels on osm.org
 
 Joseph
 
 
 On 9 January 2013 15:15, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 8:57 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 
 I think it is ok for us to post stuff to Twitter, and I think we should make 
 room for such news on our web page (many web sites have a widget that shows 
 the most recent twitter mentions).
 
 I would dislike a follow us on Twitter button because it will only show the 
 Twitter signup page if someone doesn't have an account, and therefore make it 
 look like you had to subscribe to Twitter in order to read our news - which 
 is thankfully not true.
 
 I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a group 
 Twitter caters specifically to), what are the odds you're going to be able to 
 make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?
 
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 I think that was a somewhat-snarky way of commenting on how many Twitter 
 users don't spell very well and/or have poor grammar. This isn't limited to 
 Twitter users, unfortunately.
 
 -- 
 John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
 Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
 think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM import stats

[Shaun McDonald]

The wiki page you are looking for is: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osm2pgsql/benchmarks

It's worth mentioning on there the other settings that you had used.

Shaun

On 17 Dec 2012, at 15:19, Brian DeRocher br...@derocher.org wrote:

 Frederick and all,
 
 I found your SotM presentations on OSM imports regarding disks and stats.
 I just completed a full planet import via osm2pgsql.  Are you interested in 
 the stats from my import?  I *think* there's a wiki page about import stats, 
 should i put them there.
 
 Long story short: 3 HDD 5400 rpm, RAID 5, took 570030 seconds overall (6.6 
 days).  This includes indexing.
 
 I had a question i've never seen address.  I followed recommended tunings for 
 PostgreSQL for the import.  Do you recommend keeping these settings or 
 adjusting them for normal usage?  I will re-enabling fsync.
 
 Brian
 
 -- 
 http://brian.derocher.org
 https://mappingdc.org
 http://about.me/brian.derocher
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Telegraph releases Green Belt data

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Ralph,

I'll get this added to ITO Map in the next day or so.

Shaun

On 28 Nov 2012, at 15:37, Ralph Smyth ral...@cpre.org.uk wrote:

 This afternoon the Daily Telegraph has released Green Belt data for
 England. Could anyone import this into OSM? If so how might it be
 rendered? 
 
 
 
 www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/planning/9708387/Interactive-map
 -Englands-green-belt.html
 
 This map is the first time it has been possible for members of the
 public to easily see which areas are green belt land, and which are not.
 
 
 The Department for Communities and Local Government released the data
 for the 2011 green belt to the Telegraph, and it is being made available
 here to view, explore, share and download. 
 
 Previously the data has only been available at a cost of tens of
 thousands of pounds from a third party, despite the location of green
 belt land being identified by councils using taxpayer money. 
 
 Expert users may also download a copy of the green belt map
 http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/html/Years/2012/GreenBeltMap/2011%20G
 reen%20belt%20boundaries.zip  (29MB ZIP file) for use in geographic
 information systems (GIS).
 
 
 
 OSM already has many other forms of environmental data so it would be
 great if this could be included.
 
 
 
 
 
 Ralph Smyth
 Senior Transport Campaigner, Barrister
 Campaign to Protect Rural England
 
 www.cpre.org.uk/what-we-do/transport
 http://www.cpre.org.uk/what-we-do/transport 
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] public_transport=platform not rendered

[Shaun McDonald]

On 18 Nov 2012, at 13:14, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 There are a million highway=bus_stop nodes, they are rendered, and there's no 
 very good reason to change them.
  
 There are 118,000 public_transport=platform nodes, of which 67% also have 
 highway tags.
  
 I'd just put highway=bus_stop on the public_transport=platform nodes (if they 
 are bus stops), and be done with it.

+1

I don't see the benefit of changing all the highway=bus_stop to something else, 
when we have loads of them already, and they are the defacto way to map bus 
stops. It's easy enough to use some form of tag transform to convert them into 
the new format if you are a data user who prefers them that way.

What about railway=platform?

Shaun

 
 
 On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:40 AM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:
  From: Ed Loach [mailto:e...@loach.me.uk]
  Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] public_transport=platform not rendered
 
   I'd rather deprecate platform for busses if anything.
 
  One of the problems with the bus stop tag, and hoping I don't reopen old
  arguments, is that due to a mistranslation in the wiki in the dim and
  distant past many people have tagged bus stops as nodes on the way where
  the bus stops, when they are meant to be nodes beside the way where
  people wait for the bus. The public_transport tags at least clearly
  separate the place people wait (using the word
  platform) from where the vehicle stops.
 
 As of this afternoon there are 1020807 highway=bus_stop total and 123578 of
 those are in a way.
 
 So about 7.25x as many not as part of a way as in a way.
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] OS Locator 201211 out, musical chairs updated

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi all,

Thanks Robert for the notification about the updated data, hopefully the OS 
will get better at sending out those notifications.

The ITO OSM Analysis has been updated and there's now only 7 areas at 100%.

http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main

Shaun

On 7 Nov 2012, at 00:47, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 Normal announcement. Ordnance Survey have again managed to release a new 
 version of OS Locator whilst still listing it as the old version on their 
 site. Be assured, what you will be served with is the November 2012 OS 
 Locator.
 
 This release looks to have 7609 new entries and 5077 removed entries. Though 
 of course a lot of those new entries are just slightly altered incarnations 
 of some of the deleted entries (I don't try too hard to second-guess OS's 
 shifting around of entries). My modified version that I've attached stable 
 ids to is also up [1].
 
 As ever, taking a look as musical chairs [2] for the next few ways will show 
 you new entries as recent updates - good for seeing the changes in your 
 area.
 
 Slightly rushed email - if you don't know what I'm on about you can refer to 
 the wiki page [3].
 
 
 robert.
 
 [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/data/oslocator/
 [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/
 [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator_Musical_Chairs
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Office of National Statistics data

[Shaun McDonald]

CycleStreets for example use a different database for the postcodes (Code Point 
Open) and if any search query looks like a post code the look it up there 
first. Similarly for station names they look them up in their own table first 
before going to nominatim.

Shaun

On 31 Oct 2012, at 12:30, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ah, but we are not in the business of adding non-physical stuff just because
 it makes a search work better. If we have something to add postcode data to
 then that's right and proper, otherwise the postcode centroid database can
 be off map and referenced from a separate database.
 
 Cheers
 Andy
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Colin Smale [mailto:colin.sm...@xs4all.nl]
 Sent: 31 October 2012 12:26
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Office of National Statistics data
 
 Colin, it's fine to add the postcode data to a node object (eg a poi),
 just don't create a node with just the postcode and nothing else as
 this is meaningless. The postcode data we have is not the information
 for individual buildings, its just the centroid of the address polygon
 which will contain any number of buildings (or post delivery points).
 Thus when using the data its still necessary to do some interpretation
 and it's not possible always to know that you are assigning the right
 postcode to the right building/delivery point because we don't know
 where the boundary of one postcode is against another for the same
 street etc.
 
 I am guessing that just having the centroid is plenty adequate for a lot
 of
 reverse geocoding probably including routing, i.e. where is XX1 3AB
 or take me to XX1 3AB. Obviously it won't cover questions of the form of
 what's the postcode for this building which will require every
 individual
 building/delivery point to be tagged.
 
 As (legal stuff permitting) importing the centroids would cover a very
 popular use case with (IMHO) a quality which is adequate for most people,
 I
 would not be so quick to dismiss it.
 
 Colin
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign

[Shaun McDonald]

On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:49, Matt Williams li...@milliams.com wrote:

 On 31 October 2012 14:37, David Fisher djfishe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 The pedestrianised main shopping street in Croydon has a sign with the
 following wording: Pedestrian Zone.  No vehicles except cycles and for
 loading 6pm-10am.
 How would you interpret that?  I see at least 3 possibilities:
 
 (a) Cycles permitted at any time; loading only permitted 6pm-10am (this is
 what I guess is the correct one)
 (b) Cycles and loading only permitted 6pm-10am (this would also make sense;
 i.e. cycling only outside shopping hours)
 (c) Restrictions apply 6pm-10am (clearly ludicrous!)
 (d) Something else?
 
 I'm guessing it's meant to be (a), but just thought I'd canvas opinion
 before tagging.
 
 I think I agree with (a). I would find it a little strange to disallow
 cycling just during the day (why not just ban it entirely?).

The centre pedestrianised bit of Ipswich has cycling banned from 10:30am - 
4:30pm. It does get pretty busy during that time.
http://goo.gl/maps/ouha1

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign

[Shaun McDonald]

On 31 Oct 2012, at 15:29, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] wrote:
 Sent: 31 October 2012 15:21
 To: Matt Williams
 Cc: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign
 
 
 On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:49, Matt Williams li...@milliams.com wrote:
 
 On 31 October 2012 14:37, David Fisher djfishe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 The pedestrianised main shopping street in Croydon has a sign with
 the following wording: Pedestrian Zone.  No vehicles except cycles
 and for loading 6pm-10am.
 How would you interpret that?  I see at least 3 possibilities:
 
 (a) Cycles permitted at any time; loading only permitted 6pm-10am
 (this is what I guess is the correct one)
 (b) Cycles and loading only permitted 6pm-10am (this would also make
 sense; i.e. cycling only outside shopping hours)
 (c) Restrictions apply 6pm-10am (clearly ludicrous!)
 (d) Something else?
 
 I'm guessing it's meant to be (a), but just thought I'd canvas
 opinion before tagging.
 
 I think I agree with (a). I would find it a little strange to disallow
 cycling just during the day (why not just ban it entirely?).
 
 The centre pedestrianised bit of Ipswich has cycling banned from 10:30am -
 4:30pm. It does get pretty busy during that time.
 http://goo.gl/maps/ouha1
 
 
 I'm not sure that's correct? Is it not just banning cyclists from cycling
 against the traffic flow during this period? The sign at the other end
 suggests its open to cyclists at all times in the direction of normal flow.
 http://goo.gl/eYcsG

That's a different road which is two way cycling all the time. The example I 
gave is for a pedestrian street, that effectively becomes a service road 
overnight and early morning when it's full of delivery vans for the shops.

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] Knight funded work and OSM dev blog

[Shaun McDonald]

On 23 Oct 2012, at 16:01, Matt Williams li...@milliams.com wrote:

 On 23 October 2012 15:45, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:
 
 Hello everyone -
 
 We just kicked off our MapBox OSM Development blog [1] as a place to keep 
 people in the loop of our Knight funded OpenStreetMap work [2].
 
 We'll be updating there regularly on where work stands and use it as a 
 casual space for bigger picture posts. We'll be keeping the [talk] list here 
 updated, too. Much of the discussion around development priorities has been 
 happening on the [dev] list, if you're interested in a finer grained picture 
 of ongoing dev work, I recommend you head over there.
 
 Excellent. I also suggest you add it to http://blogs.openstreetmap.org/

I've added them. :-)

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

[Shaun McDonald]

Gregory,

I thought that cycleway=opposite_lane was the equivalent of cycleway:right=lane.

And if it was a lane only on the left then it would be cycleway:left=lane.

Shaun

On 9 Oct 2012, at 17:28, Gregory Williams greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk 
wrote:

 Richard,
  
 It looks good and useful. On the OSM side of things it looks like you’ve 
 missed handling cycleway=opposite_lane, since a place where I had that in the 
 data wasn’t being rendered. I have since changed this to be 
 cycleway:right=opposite_lane though to be more accurate.
  
 Cheers,
  
 Gregory
  
 From: Richard Mann [mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: 09 October 2012 16:15
 To: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)
 Subject: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes
  
 As you may recall, DfT has made available a lot of cycle facility data. This 
 was processed and snapped to OSM geometry, and has been available for some 
 months for importing (subject to local review) using the Snapshot tool. 
 Further details 
 here:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project
  
 I've reconciled the data for my area, but I found it a bit hard going. 
 Progress in other areas has been variable.
  
 I'm particularly interested in cycle lane data, so I've produced a rendering 
 that compares DfT (Red) with OSM (Blue) data. Note that the DfT data is not 
 clear which side of the road cycle lanes are on.
 http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/
  
 Quite a lot still missing.
  
 So I've also generated tiles of the DfT cycle lane data (down to z17), for 
 use as a background in editors. In Potlatch, you can create a new background 
 by clicking on the Background drop-down, then Edit, then Add. The URL for the 
 tiles is:
 http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/tilesDfT/$z/$x/$y.png
  
 If any of you care to add cycle lanes in your area, that'd be most welcome. 
 It will also be interesting to see whether providing a background proves to 
 be an effective way of getting data reviewed and into OSM. If it's 
 successful, a similar approach can be used for other parts of the data.
  
 Feedback welcome.
  
 Richard
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Re: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

[Shaun McDonald]

On 9 Oct 2012, at 17:47, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 9 October 2012 17:34, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote:
 Gregory,
 
 I thought that cycleway=opposite_lane was the equivalent of
 cycleway:right=lane.
 
 no - opposite_lane is useful in a one-way road to indicate cyclists
 can go both ways. There's nothing in cycleway:right=lane to suggest
 whether or not that cycle lane is with or against the traffic flow on
 a one-way road. Outside the Jeremy Bentham is a one-way cycle lane in
 the same direction as cars on the right hand side of a one way road,
 for example.
 

Thanks for the clarification, maybe it would be easier to just map each lane of 
the road as areas?

Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] Gibraltar - Mapping Party?

[Shaun McDonald]

Assuming suitable dates, I'm in for this.

Shaun

On 2 Oct 2012, at 22:47, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Roger Bamkin, prior chair of Wikimedia UK board and following a prompt from
 Andy Mabbett, has sent me an email asking if OSMer's would be interested in
 a mapping party based in Gibraltar where he has links to the Government. He
 was suggesting November but I'm thinking that's too soon and something next
 year would be more logical if there was enough interest. He indicated that
 basic accommodation in an old fort might be available free of charge so the
 main cost would be airfare. Roger's interest is in improving the link
 between Wikipedia articles and OSM mapping, they have some sort of contract
 with the Government on that.
 
 Gibraltar itself looks fairly well mapped but across the border in Spain it
 looks like there is plenty to do and North Africa is a short journey away
 where there are more opportunities.
 
 I've pointed out to Roger that the OSM community in the UK may not be large
 enough to draw from but if folks are interested we can widen it out to see
 if there are others who might be interested in a more international
 get-together.
 
 Anyway, I'll come back with more once I catch up with Roger. In the
 meantime, would this idea float anyone's boat?
 
 Cheers
 Andy
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Réf.: Re: All you've ever wanted to know about the french cadastre

[Shaun McDonald]

On 28 Sep 2012, at 06:25, THEVENON Julien julien_theve...@yahoo.fr wrote:

 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Le jeu. 27 sept. 2012 20:18 HAEC, Sarah Hoffmann a écrit :
 
 This is the real problem for us.
 
 For the sake of completeness: planetwide there are currently
 152 million objects. Which means 1/6th of the planet consists of
 French buildings. Now, there is a real problem.
 
 Hi Sara,
 
 concerning problem of disk usage by french cadastre data do you have some 
 information?particulary do you know how is it stored in database?
 to be allowed to use cadastre data we have to add a source key which is long 
 about 40 characters to each way drawn thanks cadastre data due to legal 
 agreement with french office goverment providing cadastre data.
 do you know is this key is duplicatd for each building in the database or if 
 there is a smart storage? if not it would be interesting to know which part 
 of the size is for the key itself and which part is for the geometry. I think 
 that for buildings composed of one way and 4 nodes the space required by the 
 could be greater than for geometry.
 if this is the case there is perhaps a way to factorise the source key and 
 dramatically reduce disk usage.

The way to reduce the disk space for stuff imported in the future is to store 
that source once on the changeset instead.

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] Réf.: Re: All you've ever wanted to know about the french cadastre

[Shaun McDonald]

I know.

My thinking is that the source tag would be better placed on the changeset 
rather than polluting the whole db with source tags and source tags for each 
and every tag on each object which is starting to happen. You can then use the 
changeset info to synthesise the source info down to the tag and geometry.

Shaun

On 28 Sep 2012, at 08:47, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 They're not allowed to. The licence requires them to put it on the object.
 
 On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk 
 wrote:
 
 On 28 Sep 2012, at 06:25, THEVENON Julien julien_theve...@yahoo.fr wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --
  Le jeu. 27 sept. 2012 20:18 HAEC, Sarah Hoffmann a écrit :
 
  This is the real problem for us.
 
  For the sake of completeness: planetwide there are currently
  152 million objects. Which means 1/6th of the planet consists of
  French buildings. Now, there is a real problem.
 
  Hi Sara,
 
  concerning problem of disk usage by french cadastre data do you have some 
  information?particulary do you know how is it stored in database?
  to be allowed to use cadastre data we have to add a source key which is 
  long about 40 characters to each way drawn thanks cadastre data due to 
  legal agreement with french office goverment providing cadastre data.
  do you know is this key is duplicatd for each building in the database or 
  if there is a smart storage? if not it would be interesting to know which 
  part of the size is for the key itself and which part is for the geometry. 
  I think that for buildings composed of one way and 4 nodes the space 
  required by the could be greater than for geometry.
  if this is the case there is perhaps a way to factorise the source key and 
  dramatically reduce disk usage.
 
 The way to reduce the disk space for stuff imported in the future is to store 
 that source once on the changeset instead.
 
 Shaun
 
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Open Data User Group asks what data do you want

[Shaun McDonald]

PDF isn't necessarily the best format if you want to process the data with some 
other program. It's great for presentation, but as soon as you want to push it 
around and mix it with things, and do interesting things it's much less useful.

Shaun

On 27 Sep 2012, at 23:19, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 I've asked for Network Rail's Sectional Appendices (track layout diagrams and 
 lots of other goodies) to be available in PDF form.
  
 Richard
 
 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:24 PM, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 
 Just a quick heads up that the Open Data User Group (supported by UK 
 Government) as asking what data do you want. If interested there are 
 details of the initiative and a simple form to fill out:
 
 http://www.data.gov.uk/odug/overview
 http://data.gov.uk/node/add/data-request
 
 Cheers,
 Rob
 
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[Talk-GB] Geovation: innovation in transport event

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi all,

On Monday there is an event  at the RSA in London as part of Geovation about 
innovation in transport which you may be interested in. There will be 
opportunities to talk about OSM, and discuss new transport ideas. More 
information:
http://www.geovation.org.uk/speakers-innovation-transport-event/

Free signup:
http://geovationcollaboration2012.eventbrite.co.uk/

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] Specific Cases of Governments Using OSM

[Shaun McDonald]

Cycling Scotland which is funded by the Scottish Government have funded a guide 
to be written to help people add cycling data to OSM:
http://www.cyclestreets.net/blog/2012/03/27/community-mapping-guide/
Some organisations have bought branded versions of CycleStreets for their 
website, so that they have have cycle routing using OSM directly in their web 
site:
http://www.cyclestreets.net/blog/category/branded-versions/

Shaun

On 15 Jun 2012, at 10:04, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote:

 Hi All,
 
 I'm giving a presentation in a couple weeks about OpenStreetMap and
 how governments can interact with OSM.
 
 I'm looking for examples of governments using OSM data, versus
 releasing data for OSM to use.
 
 I already know about TriMet in Portland, OR for example: 
 http://ride.trimet.org/
 There is also my work with HOT in Indonesia for mapping exposure for
 impact models.
 
 What other examples are out there?
 
 Thanks,
 
 -Kate
 
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[Talk-GB] ITO - OSM Analysis updated with latest OS Locator data

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi,

A little update on OSM Analysis, ITO's OSM to OS Locator comparison service. We 
have just updated to the latest OS Locator data in OSM Analysis. Hopefully the 
next update to the OS Locator data will be updated a bit quicker. The biggest 
drop in completeness has been Leeds with 44 new streets missing.

OSM Analysis is available at:
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main


We have recently been releasing some new ITO Map layers, and improving some of 
the current map layers. We now have nodes for Great Britain for some of the 
maps. For example 
Bicycle parking: http://www.itoworld.com/map/223 
ATMs: http://www.itoworld.com/map/230
Building entrances: http://www.itoworld.com/map/221

We are updating the nodes daily, and working on going to Europe and then 
Worldwide soon.

http://www.itoworld.com/map/

If you have any comments, questions or ideas for ITO Map, please let me know.

Shaun McDonald
Developer
ITO World
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Postcodes - Potential data source

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Rob,

Postcodes are a bit more complicated. Postcodes are a series of points, not a 
single point, as based on CodePoint data. I would not like to see a raw import 
of the CodePoint Open data as it is just the centroids of the postcodes, 
instead the postcodes need to be attached to specific addresses, which is more 
work, though more accurate and what is needed by the geocoders.

There are websites out there such as CycleStreets that are successfully using 
the CodePoint Open data for geocoding in addition to other OSM data.

Shaun

On 27 Aug 2012, at 23:18, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 Hi All,
 
 Please correct me if I am wrong, but to the best of my understanding we are 
 still struggling to find a good source of postcode data under an open 
 licence. From what I understand the CodePoint data set is currently seen as 
 not available for use in OSM.
 
 That is where this data set available under the OGL licence may help: 
 http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/information/public-data/price-paid-data
 
 It's not perfect as it does not provide lat/lon co-ordinates, but it does 
 include full addresses for residential properties sold within each month. 
 This means that it gives us a link between address (something we can survey) 
 and postcode (which we can't easily survey). It also states which properties 
 are new (i.e. new builds, new addresses). Any thoughts?
 
 If this is a useful source I was thinking a simple database where we can look 
 up an address and find a postcode for adding to OSM. Going one step further 
 we could try to find automatic matches between OSM addresses and this dataset 
 and therefore generate a list of postcodes that could be suitable for import. 
 I guess for someone with experience this would be quite an do-able hack?
 
 Regards,
 Rob
 
 
 
 
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