Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/16 Steve Bennett :
> Yes, it's definitely been razed. The big BP sign is still there, so
> it's unclear whether they're just rebuilding it from below ground
> level or what.

Ahh ok, I couldn't make out signs from NearMap, then again I wasn't
looking that much after seeing a hole in the ground :)

> The one over the road (north/outbound side) is still there.

Yea you can see it on the NearMap imagery, maybe they'll level it once
they get done with this one?

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Steve Bennett]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Steve Bennett  wrote:
>
> To be a complete hypocrit, I could check it out on my way to work
> tomorrow. If driving, I drive straight past it, if riding, I pass
> within a few blocks.
>
> Then again, had a quick look with streetview, looks like BPs on both
> sides. Both look pretty established, so I'm guessing it's demolished
> rather than new.

Yes, it's definitely been razed. The big BP sign is still there, so
it's unclear whether they're just rebuilding it from below ground
level or what.

The one over the road (north/outbound side) is still there.

Steve

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

Travelling about northern NSW in the lead up to xmas I noticed this location:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/585129264

Is no longer a BP, but has Liberty signs up... BP states they update
their dataset monthly but it seems they're a bit slack...

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/15 Steve Bennett :
> Then again, had a quick look with streetview, looks like BPs on both
> sides. Both look pretty established, so I'm guessing it's demolished
> rather than new.

The NearMap imagery is very recent, the same can't be said for sat
imagery or streetview, even so there may be construction since the
last NearMap pass.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Steve Bennett]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:19 PM, John Smith  wrote:
> BP have this location on their site:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/585128133
>
> Except when you view it with NearMap the site has been leveled, not
> sure if BP is rebuilding it or what

To be a complete hypocrit, I could check it out on my way to work
tomorrow. If driving, I drive straight past it, if riding, I pass
within a few blocks.

Then again, had a quick look with streetview, looks like BPs on both
sides. Both look pretty established, so I'm guessing it's demolished
rather than new.

Steve

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

BP have this location on their site:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/585128133

Except when you view it with NearMap the site has been leveled, not
sure if BP is rebuilding it or what

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Liz]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009, John Smith wrote:
> 2009/12/15 John Smith :
> > Here's a current list of nodes with 'fixme' tags:
> >
> > http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/BPfixmes.osm.bz2
> >
> > Also some people have editted locations without removing the fixme
> > tags...
>
> I just noticed since that contains version numbers etc, you can just
> use that file in JOSM to edit/update and don't need to screw about
> downloading from OSM before editing, you may need to periodically
> update from OSM data to make sure your local copy is in sync with what
> everyone else is doing but it's easier than editing otherwise.
>
> I just dumped a copy of all amenity=fuel in Australia to the work
> server, rather than operator=BP... This will help with duplicate fuel
> station locations that didn't have an operator tag...
>
> http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/fuel.osm.bz2
>
Thanks for the list
I just found one 32.7km away from home
"Darlington Point Truck Stop" found a long way west

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

Here's an example of OSM beating even BP to the punch...

This location doesn't exist in the BP dataset:

http://osm.org/go/uN9xpckXA--

You can make out BP signs with NearMap and according to OSM data, it
was tagged on the 3rd of November...

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/552634810/history

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/15 John Smith :
> Here's a current list of nodes with 'fixme' tags:
>
> http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/BPfixmes.osm.bz2
>
> Also some people have editted locations without removing the fixme tags...
>

I just noticed since that contains version numbers etc, you can just
use that file in JOSM to edit/update and don't need to screw about
downloading from OSM before editing, you may need to periodically
update from OSM data to make sure your local copy is in sync with what
everyone else is doing but it's easier than editing otherwise.

I just dumped a copy of all amenity=fuel in Australia to the work
server, rather than operator=BP... This will help with duplicate fuel
station locations that didn't have an operator tag...

http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/fuel.osm.bz2

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

Here's a current list of nodes with 'fixme' tags:

http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/BPfixmes.osm.bz2

Also some people have editted locations without removing the fixme tags...

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/14 Steve Bennett :
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Chris Barham  wrote:
>> I drove out there to check and be certain on the weekend so have
>> removed the FIXME tag.
>
> Wow, someone cares about their servos :)

Why haven't you? :P

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Steve Bennett]

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Chris Barham  wrote:
> I drove out there to check and be certain on the weekend so have
> removed the FIXME tag.

Wow, someone cares about their servos :)

Steve

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/14 Chris Barham :
> I've found one that is almost 20km out - and wondered whether this is
> the worst one found so far?:
> http://www.bp.com/iframe.do?categoryId=9012436&contentId=7017653

The one at Moree was plotted 20km out of Moree to the North, but the
servo is on the south side of Moree.

The address is just listed as Newell Highway, Moree, so most deff
geo-coding errors because of the address fed into them.

Although the funny thing is most Gold Coast locations were almost spot
on, they looked manually placed because they were located on top of
the servo rather than on a nearby street, some had some very obscure
address information too which also made me think they were manually
located.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Chris Barham]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:39 PM, John Smith  wrote:
> The 2 BP's along the Bruce Highway north of Brisbane aren't located
> properly either, it looks like they've simply used address to geo
> lookups and when the addresses are specific they co-ords go wonky,
> wonder if they want more accurate co-ords...

I've found one that is almost 20km out - and wondered whether this is
the worst one found so far?:
http://www.bp.com/iframe.do?categoryId=9012436&contentId=7017653

It's in the dataset as Lehmann Motors Coominya, but it's actually in
Tarampa to the south south.  I'm almost certain this is a geo-coding
from address error, because the servo listed  address is Main Street
Tarampa, and the nearest occurrence of Main Street is in Coominya a
fair bit further North.

The new location in OSM is http://osm.org/go/ueB_yMDYg-
I drove out there to check and be certain on the weekend so have
removed the FIXME tag.

Cheers,
Chris

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Ross Scanlon]

> Interesting.  Personally, I use e10 in my '97 Pulsar almost always, even 
> though Nissan say not to.  I've never had a problem with drivability or 
> with the fuel or intake system.
>
> On the contrary, e10 is actually about 93 or 94 octane, as the ethanol 
> raises the octane number of the 91 base fuel.  Occasionally I'll use 
> ordinary ordinary ULP where e10 isn't available, and then I'll hear the 
> occasional pinking from the engine momentarily until the knock sensor 
> retards the spark.  Running with more spark advance on e10 makes up for 
> its marginally lower energy content.
> 
> Just my 2¢ worth in an emotional and off-topic debate.
> 
> John

Bit different in engine type, mines a 5.8l V8 which will run on e10 or 91 
octane but it's not good.  Fuel consumption increases by about 5l per 100km.  
Prefered fuel is 98 or 95 with octane boost.

I'd actually like to be able to run e85 or e100 but would need fuel injection 
to do it practicable.  Would also be able to produce enough ethanol at home for 
local use and just use what ever fuel is available when touring.

Our XR8 runs quite nicely on e10 maybe I should just get an XR8 engine and put 
it in the truck.

-- 
Cheers
Ross

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Ross Scanlon]

> > Interesting.  Personally, I use e10 in my '97 Pulsar almost always, even
> > though Nissan say not to.  I've never had a problem with drivability or
> > with the fuel or intake system.
> 
> Most cars made after the mid-80s in the US had to be capable of
> ethernol based fuels, I'm guessing that most cars built since will be
> capable of ethernol since the US is such a large market etc. The main
> problem as I understand it is with the fuel line, due to alcohol
> eating away unsuitable rubber/plastic.

Not a problem with the truck as all fuel lines have just been replace with 
braided fuel hose and aluminium hardline.

--
Cheers 
Ross

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/14 John Henderson :
> Ross Scanlon wrote:
>
>> fuel:e10 = yes
>>
>> Replaces 91 octane at lots of BP servos.
>>
>> At least they have 95, 98 and lpg which suits me as the truck really does 
>> not like e10.
>
> Interesting.  Personally, I use e10 in my '97 Pulsar almost always, even
> though Nissan say not to.  I've never had a problem with drivability or
> with the fuel or intake system.

Most cars made after the mid-80s in the US had to be capable of
ethernol based fuels, I'm guessing that most cars built since will be
capable of ethernol since the US is such a large market etc. The main
problem as I understand it is with the fuel line, due to alcohol
eating away unsuitable rubber/plastic.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Henderson]

Ross Scanlon wrote:

> fuel:e10 = yes
> 
> Replaces 91 octane at lots of BP servos.
> 
> At least they have 95, 98 and lpg which suits me as the truck really does not 
> like e10.

Interesting.  Personally, I use e10 in my '97 Pulsar almost always, even 
though Nissan say not to.  I've never had a problem with drivability or 
with the fuel or intake system.

On the contrary, e10 is actually about 93 or 94 octane, as the ethanol 
raises the octane number of the 91 base fuel.  Occasionally I'll use 
ordinary ordinary ULP where e10 isn't available, and then I'll hear the 
occasional pinking from the engine momentarily until the knock sensor 
retards the spark.  Running with more spark advance on e10 makes up for 
its marginally lower energy content.

Just my 2¢ worth in an emotional and off-topic debate.

John

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Ross Scanlon]

> > I notice that both are tagged with:
> >
> >        fuel:octane_91 = no
> >
> > implying that neither sell ordinary unleaded petrol.  That's the normal
> > high-volume seller, or have you banned it in Qld?
> 

fuel:e10 = yes

Replaces 91 octane at lots of BP servos.

At least they have 95, 98 and lpg which suits me as the truck really does not 
like e10.

-- 
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Ross

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/13 John Henderson :
> John Smith wrote:
>> H
>>
>> BP has 2 locations listed for the same address, one is express one
>> isn't, and I'm not sure which is correct, maybe BP has lost more
>> service stations? :)
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3360844
>
> I notice that both are tagged with:
>
>        fuel:octane_91 = no
>
> implying that neither sell ordinary unleaded petrol.  That's the normal
> high-volume seller, or have you banned it in Qld?

That's assuming BP tagged their locations correctly.

Two near by locations are tagged as selling that fuel:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/585129781
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/585129778

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Henderson]

John Smith wrote:
> H
> 
> BP has 2 locations listed for the same address, one is express one
> isn't, and I'm not sure which is correct, maybe BP has lost more
> service stations? :)
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3360844

I notice that both are tagged with:

fuel:octane_91 = no

implying that neither sell ordinary unleaded petrol.  That's the normal
high-volume seller, or have you banned it in Qld?

Other fuel tags are:

fuel:GTL_diesel = yes
fuel:diesel = no
fuel:e10 = yes
fuel:lpg = yes
fuel:octane_95 = yes
fuel:octane_98 = yes

John


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/13 Liz :
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, John Smith wrote:
>> H
>>
>> BP has 2 locations listed for the same address, one is express one
>> isn't, and I'm not sure which is correct, maybe BP has lost more
>> service stations? :)
>
> I joined two together in Grenfell
> same address
> same phone number
> same stuff for sale
> i think they represent wholesale and retail.
> I'd only found one BP when in Grenfell

Were the ID numbers the same?

If they were and you don't track the ID numbers they may get
re-imported in future.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Liz]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, John Smith wrote:
> H
>
> BP has 2 locations listed for the same address, one is express one
> isn't, and I'm not sure which is correct, maybe BP has lost more
> service stations? :)

I joined two together in Grenfell 
same address 
same phone number
same stuff for sale
i think they represent wholesale and retail.
I'd only found one BP when in Grenfell 


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

H

BP has 2 locations listed for the same address, one is express one
isn't, and I'm not sure which is correct, maybe BP has lost more
service stations? :)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3360844

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/13 David Dean :
>
> Maybe the fuel station node labelled 'BP' just a few 10s of metres away on
> the link you posted?
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.445482&lon=153.029376&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF

Mmmm that was a tad obvious, dunno how I missed it

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[David Dean]

Maybe the fuel station node labelled 'BP' just a few 10s of metres away on
the link you posted?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.445482&lon=153.029376&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF

- David


John Smith-131 wrote:
> 
> Anyone familiar with the BP at this location?
> 
> 44 Bowen Bridge Rd, Herston QLD 4006
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.446834&lon=153.029365&zoom=18
> 
> Looking at Nearmap imagery, I just can't see anything close by that
> looks like service station.
> 
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[David Dean]

Maybe the fuel station node labelled 'BP' just a few 10s of metres away on
the link you posted?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.445482&lon=153.029376&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF

- David


John Smith-131 wrote:
> 
> Anyone familiar with the BP at this location?
> 
> 44 Bowen Bridge Rd, Herston QLD 4006
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.446834&lon=153.029365&zoom=18
> 
> Looking at Nearmap imagery, I just can't see anything close by that
> looks like service station.
> 
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

Anyone familiar with the BP at this location?

44 Bowen Bridge Rd, Herston QLD 4006
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.446834&lon=153.029365&zoom=18

Looking at Nearmap imagery, I just can't see anything close by that
looks like service station.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/13 Elizabeth Dodd :
> The Beckom one was so far up the road it had moved to a rest area
> Others like Young, address on an intersection, were on the intersection
> literally

I meant to mention this the other day, the easiest way to locate the
BP locations is to load the BP osm file I created and open it in JOSM,
then zoom in on the map and download a new layer from OSM and so on
and so forth.

For areas with NearMap coverage you just use the slippymap plugin and
zoom in as needed.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/11 James Livingston :
> On Wednesday, December 09, 2009, at 03:25PM, "Chris Barham" 
>  wrote:
>> BP allows free download of GPS data for their Australian service stations.
>
> Has anyone asked any of the other companies yet? If not, I'll send some 
> emails about:
> http://apps.nowwhere.com.au/caltex/austlocator/search.aspx
> http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/aus/products_services/on_the_road/shell_station_locator/site_locator.html
> http://apps.exxonmobil.com.au/apps/htm/mn_mobil_products_stations.asp

Travelling about yesterday there is also others like Matilda chain and
United among others.

www.matildafuel.com.au
www.unitedpetroleum.com.au

And of course family owned ones, but I doubt most of them would be
easily located centrally.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/12 Brendan Morley :
> I'll bet internally they're associated with lots-on-plan land records...

They probably don't need to know/care about the geo data.

> And if the public dataset is "simply used address to geo lookups", then
> which geocoder did they use? And is BP allowed to publish the derived
> dataset?

Since nowwhere.com.au/mapds is doing the mapping they probably
provided the geocoder too, as for them being allowed, that is most
likely a contractual issue and if they're publishing the information
they probably have the rights to, or there will be some legal spats at
some point in the future :)

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Elizabeth Dodd]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Brendan Morley wrote:
> I'll bet internally they're associated with lots-on-plan land records...
The Beckom one was so far up the road it had moved to a rest area
Others like Young, address on an intersection, were on the intersection 
literally

>
> And if the public dataset is "simply used address to geo lookups", then
> which geocoder did they use?  And is BP allowed to publish the derived
> dataset?
Questions without answers...

>
> Brendan


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Brendan Morley]

I'll bet internally they're associated with lots-on-plan land records...

And if the public dataset is "simply used address to geo lookups", then which 
geocoder did they use?  And is BP allowed to publish the derived dataset?

Brendan

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:43:08 +1100, Liz wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Dec 2009, Steve Bennett wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:39 PM, John Smith 
>wrote:
>> > The 2 BP's along the Bruce Highway north of Brisbane aren't located
>> > properly either, it looks like they've simply used address to geo
>> > lookups and when the addresses are specific they co-ords go wonky,
>> > wonder if they want more accurate co-ords...
>>
>> Dear BP,
>>   We gather that you have misplaced several of your service stations. We
>> are pleased to inform you that we have located them at the following
>> locations:< ... > We trust this puts your mind at ease.
>>
>> Love,
>> OpenStreetMap

>I think we should advise them of where their servos have gone ;)


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Elizabeth Dodd]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, you wrote:
> 2009/12/11 Elizabeth Dodd :
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, you wrote:
> >> > i then looked for one at blanchetown, and there was no new bp at
> >> > blanchetown, so either its not bp any more, or because the node was
> >> > close the new data has not been imported
> >>
> >> Or the geodata is wrong and the node is 10km away.
> >
> > or they moved it 10km in the last year??
>
> I'm yet to see any of the geo data being correct, they're all
> guesstimates based on the street address fed to the geolocation code.

If the address is on a corner then the node will be sitting on a corner (eg 
the wagga one) but if the address is really helpful like "Sturt Highway 
Blanchetown" it could be anywhere.


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/11 Liz :
> i then looked for one at blanchetown, and there was no new bp at blanchetown,
> so either its not bp any more, or because the node was close the new data has
> not been imported

I think you found it, unless you mean there is 2 BPs at Blanchetown?

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/11 Liz :
> the one i did i dragged the node to the surveyed place, merged the two, and
> left the source as bp?; survey

I'd do it:

source=bp.com
source:location=survey

> i then looked for one at blanchetown, and there was no new bp at blanchetown,
> so either its not bp any more, or because the node was close the new data has
> not been imported

Or the geodata is wrong and the node is 10km away.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/11 James Livingston :
> http://apps.nowwhere.com.au/caltex/austlocator/search.aspx

I wouldn't bother with nowwhere, it's a mapds website and they are
most likely hosting the data on behalf of caltex, and so they probably
wouldn't be able or willing to release the data.

> http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/aus/products_services/on_the_road/shell_station_locator/site_locator.html
> http://apps.exxonmobil.com.au/apps/htm/mn_mobil_products_stations.asp

After we've done fuel stations what about fast food locations? :)

Then you have supermarket chains, and so on.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/11 Arie Paap :
> How should duplicates which are already in OSM (but weren't close
> enough to be picked up when processed) be dealt with? For example BP
> Bellevue: 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-31.8941&lon=116.0263&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF
> (both appear on southern side of Great Eastern Hwy if your browser
> window is wide enough; Node 332954025 is at the correct location).
> Should information be transferred to older node or should the new node
> be moved to correct position and old one deleted?

Actually some people have drawn an area and labelled it as amenity=fuel as well.

As you pointed out, there is 2 options, you can copy the details and
delete the new node, or you can move the new node and delete the old
node, either should be fine.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Liz]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Arie Paap wrote:
> How should duplicates which are already in OSM (but weren't close
> enough to be picked up when processed) be dealt with? For example BP
> Bellevue:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-31.8941&lon=116.0263&zoom=17&layers=B000
>FTF (both appear on southern side of Great Eastern Hwy if your browser
> window is wide enough; Node 332954025 is at the correct location). Should
> information be transferred to older node or should the new node be moved to
> correct position and old one deleted?
>
> Arie.
>
> P.S. Apologies to John for duplicate sent directly to him.
the one i did i dragged the node to the surveyed place, merged the two, and 
left the source as bp?; survey

i then looked for one at blanchetown, and there was no new bp at blanchetown, 
so either its not bp any more, or because the node was close the new data has 
not been imported



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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[James Livingston]

On Wednesday, December 09, 2009, at 03:25PM, "Chris Barham"  
wrote:
> BP allows free download of GPS data for their Australian service stations.

Has anyone asked any of the other companies yet? If not, I'll send some emails 
about:
http://apps.nowwhere.com.au/caltex/austlocator/search.aspx
http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/aus/products_services/on_the_road/shell_station_locator/site_locator.html
http://apps.exxonmobil.com.au/apps/htm/mn_mobil_products_stations.asp

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Arie Paap]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Smith  wrote:
>
> All 1,381 locations have been uploaded, there was a few more
> duplicates I missed before but these have been removed as well.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3340910
>
> Bound to be some duplicates that already exist in the system, but most
> will need to be moved in any case because the geo data is bad.


How should duplicates which are already in OSM (but weren't close
enough to be picked up when processed) be dealt with? For example BP
Bellevue: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-31.8941&lon=116.0263&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF
(both appear on southern side of Great Eastern Hwy if your browser
window is wide enough; Node 332954025 is at the correct location).
Should information be transferred to older node or should the new node
be moved to correct position and old one deleted?

Arie.

P.S. Apologies to John for duplicate sent directly to him.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Steve Bennett]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 4:10 AM, Emilie Laffray
 wrote:
> Also do we need to include tags when there is nothing present. I think the
> basic case is that those services are not present. Including them only when
> they are present would make more sense in my view and would not take as much
> space in the database.

Yeah, but then you can't tell the difference between unknown
information, and known absence. I'd say if we know for certain that a
service is not present, might as well mark it as such. I'm not losing
sleep either way, though.

Steve

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Emilie Laffray]

2009/12/10 John Smith 

> 2009/12/10 Steve Bennett :
> >>[26] =>  ATM
> >>
> >
> > You could add a separate (or same?) amenity=atm (or whatever it is)
> point?
>
> I added
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> Also if people have better suggestions for tag names I'm happy to
> update the file, just the best ones I could think of at the time.
>
>
Also do we need to include tags when there is nothing present. I think the
basic case is that those services are not present. Including them only when
they are present would make more sense in my view and would not take as much
space in the database.

Emilie Laffray
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Emilie Laffray]

2009/12/10 John Smith 

> 2009/12/10 Steve Bennett :
> >>[26] =>  ATM
> >>
> >
> > You could add a separate (or same?) amenity=atm (or whatever it is)
> point?
>
> I added
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> What about http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:atm%3Dyes for the ATM?

Emilie Laffray
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

All 1,381 locations have been uploaded, there was a few more
duplicates I missed before but these have been removed as well.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3340910

Bound to be some duplicates that already exist in the system, but most
will need to be moved in any case because the geo data is bad.

Also BP has duplicate markers for some 'DCA' and Depot locations, not
sure what DCA stands for, but they have different location IDs
assigned by BP and if we want to peridodically update we'll need to
keep tabs on the ID numbers so it'd be good if they weren't removed
without at least tracking which have been removed or they'll only be
added in again.

I also quickly whipped up this page:

http://map-data.bigtincan.com/bp/

Which shows the locations, allows you to open them in potlatch/josm
and only displays the address, name and the fixme tags to reduce
clutter. Updates occur reasonably quickly since switching to the
minutely diffs, usually within 1-2 minutes.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Liz]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009, Steve Bennett wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:39 PM, John Smith 
wrote:
> > The 2 BP's along the Bruce Highway north of Brisbane aren't located
> > properly either, it looks like they've simply used address to geo
> > lookups and when the addresses are specific they co-ords go wonky,
> > wonder if they want more accurate co-ords...
>
> Dear BP,
>   We gather that you have misplaced several of your service stations. We
> are pleased to inform you that we have located them at the following
> locations:< ... > We trust this puts your mind at ease.
>
> Love,
> OpenStreetMap

I think we should advise them of where their servos have gone ;)


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

I think the easiest way to do this would be to upload all points once
tags are sorted, and then fix them, I've reviewed quite a few now and
the location data is out on all of them, usually it points to the
middle of streets or roundabouts etc.

To make finding/fixing these points easier I added the following tag:



Although once imported I can stick up a webpage which will open the
points directly in JOSM/potlatch so they can be fixed up, and the page
will only show points that aren't reviewed.

I also added a source tag:



just having bp seems a little bit ambiguous, not sure...

Any other comments/suggestions on the tag combinations I've used?

Latest copy of the file can be found at the following address:

http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/BPtest.osm.bz2

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Steve Bennett]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:39 PM, John Smith wrote:

>
> The 2 BP's along the Bruce Highway north of Brisbane aren't located
> properly either, it looks like they've simply used address to geo
> lookups and when the addresses are specific they co-ords go wonky,
> wonder if they want more accurate co-ords...
>
>
Dear BP,
  We gather that you have misplaced several of your service stations. We are
pleased to inform you that we have located them at the following locations:<
... > We trust this puts your mind at ease.

Love,
OpenStreetMap
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/10 John Smith :
> Also I think some of the co-ords are way off, there is 2 BP locations
> in Carnarvon for example and when you zoom in on them there doesn't
> look to be a service station anywhere within the vicinity.
>

The 2 BP's along the Bruce Highway north of Brisbane aren't located
properly either, it looks like they've simply used address to geo
lookups and when the addresses are specific they co-ords go wonky,
wonder if they want more accurate co-ords...

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

Also I think some of the co-ords are way off, there is 2 BP locations
in Carnarvon for example and when you zoom in on them there doesn't
look to be a service station anywhere within the vicinity.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/10 Steve Bennett :
>>    [26] =>  ATM
>>
>
> You could add a separate (or same?) amenity=atm (or whatever it is) point?

I added









Also if people have better suggestions for tag names I'm happy to
update the file, just the best ones I could think of at the time.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Steve Bennett]

>
>[26] =>  ATM
>
>
You could add a separate (or same?) amenity=atm (or whatever it is) point?

Steve
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

Ok, getting back on topic, I spent a little time this morning
generating an OSM file that can be opened in JOSM.

For those curious/interested:

http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/BPtest.osm.bz2

I haven't included all fields, I left out the following:

[16] =>  Trailers
[17] =>  LPGBottle
[19] =>  CarWash
[20] =>  CleanGo
[21] =>  SuperWash
[22] =>  Other

[25] =>  GIFT_CARD
[23] =>  Pay

[24] =>  EFTPOS
[26] =>  ATM

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/10 Sam Couter :
> People don't starve for a worldwide lack of food, they starve because the
> excess of food is in the wrong place, ie, not their belly. This is caused
> by world politics, corruption, local warlords, complete lack of central
> government in some places, etc, and the application of more food in places
> that already have enough won't fix any of that.

Even we're suffering from gross mismanagement when it comes to things
like water.

> unsustainable industry. They won't let that go. Your solution still isn't
> carbon neutral either because you're burning coal, but that's a hell of a
> lot better than burning coal *and* oil. Our only feasible truly carbon

We're already burning coal and/or other things (cane waste/gas/etc),
might as well make use of the by products of burning it.

> neutral options are solar and nuclear. Solar's expensive and nuclear
> scares the NIMBYs even though it releases less radioactive waste than
> burning coal.

Not only is solar expensive but it doesn't work too well at night and
there is no storage method that isn't horribly expensive or inefficent
or even capable of sustaining grid levels of power when the sun is
down. Same goes for wind and virtually every other form. Nuclear and
coal is the only options that aren't going to bankrupt everyone trying
to produce energy from, it's a shame that the current govt is more
interested in taxing everyone than doing things properly.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Sam Couter]

John Smith  wrote:
> As if the govt doesn't get enough tax already, and they get tax on top
> of tax when the GST kicks in.

The government gets *less* money from E10. Fuel excise is reduced and
its production is subsidised.

> Anyway, this is getting off topic,

Yes, but a near-incoherant rant is good fun sometimes.
-- 
Sam Couter |  mailto:s...@couter.id.au
OpenPGP fingerprint:  A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05  5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Sam Couter]

John Smith  wrote:
> The problem with E10 for most cars is it doesn't recognise the extra
> oxygen atom

Australian electronic fuel injection systems have O2 sensors, this isn't
a problem. The reduced energy of E10 compared to the same volume of petrol
is a problem, is basic physics, and can't be changed.

> and making food production more expensive and so the world goes on
> starving.

People don't starve for a worldwide lack of food, they starve because the
excess of food is in the wrong place, ie, not their belly. This is caused
by world politics, corruption, local warlords, complete lack of central
government in some places, etc, and the application of more food in places
that already have enough won't fix any of that.

> Of course if they pumped the waste from coal fire power plants into
> green houses that have water tanks full of algea and then turn the
> algea into fuel you gat something like 40,000-80,000L of ethernol per
> acre, it gets rid of all the emissions in a safe manner and we don't
> need to import crude oil.
> 
> But of course that would be too smart so we can't have that.

Ethanol producers have pulled a fast one on the public and hooked
government subsidies to create a very profitable and completely
unsustainable industry. They won't let that go. Your solution still isn't
carbon neutral either because you're burning coal, but that's a hell of a
lot better than burning coal *and* oil. Our only feasible truly carbon
neutral options are solar and nuclear. Solar's expensive and nuclear
scares the NIMBYs even though it releases less radioactive waste than
burning coal.
-- 
Sam Couter |  mailto:s...@couter.id.au
OpenPGP fingerprint:  A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05  5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Ross Scanlon]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:14:32 +1100
Sam Couter  wrote:

> Ross Scanlon  wrote:
> > Make sure if you are going to enter fuel information then you include all 
> > types, (lpg, 91, 95, 98 octane, diesel, etc)
> 
> More: Automotive LPG is different tax-wise from barbecue LPG and
> therefore sold and dispensed differently, sometimes you can refill your
> own LPG bottle and sometimes you can only buy a full one or swap an empty
> one for a full one.

The lpg in the BP data is for automotive lpg.

If Chris is going to do a bulk import then the inclusion of fuel:type tags 
would be very easy.

-- 
Cheers
Ross

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[James Livingston]

On 09/12/2009, at 8:44 PM, John Smith wrote:
> 2009/12/9 James Livingston :
>> I'd suggest doing something like "import if there is not an existing 
>> amenity=fuel within X distance, flag it for manual checking if there is".
> 
> The only problem with that is where you get 2 or 3 service stations
> close/next to each other.

Sure, it will get flagged for manual checking - so you check it manually, and 
figure out if any of them are the one in the data. If you can't figure it out, 
then there isn't much anyone can do besides go there in person.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[James Livingston]

On 09/12/2009, at 8:41 PM, Steve Bennett wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:37 PM, James Livingston  wrote:
> I'd suggest doing something like "import if there is not an existing 
> amenity=fuel within X distance, flag it for manual checking if there is".
> 
> 
> Ah, didn't know that kind of thing was possible, cool.

It's probably not in any of the editor, like JOSM, but if someone was going to 
write a small script that converts the data it wouldn't be hard to make it 
check a planet extract (or the main db) as well.
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/9 James Livingston :
> I'd suggest doing something like "import if there is not an existing 
> amenity=fuel within X distance, flag it for manual checking if there is".

The only problem with that is where you get 2 or 3 service stations
close/next to each other.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Steve Bennett]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:37 PM, James Livingston  wrote:

> I'd suggest doing something like "import if there is not an existing
> amenity=fuel within X distance, flag it for manual checking if there is".
>
>
Ah, didn't know that kind of thing was possible, cool.

Steve
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[James Livingston]

On 09/12/2009, at 8:26 PM, Steve Bennett wrote:
> Can we really maintain this? These services come and go fairly frequently.

Individual things like whether they have LPG filling for bbqs maybe, but servos 
don't move that often (usually taken over by another one). In any case, it's 
probably not going to get out of date any worse than restaurant names/cuisines 
or a lot of other things.

If the BP data has IDs for servos, just put that into OSM too, and match it up 
if/when they release updated data.


> Also, if you're doing a bulk import, how do you avoid double tagging existing 
> servos?

I'd suggest doing something like "import if there is not an existing 
amenity=fuel within X distance, flag it for manual checking if there is".

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/9 Steve Bennett :
> Can we really maintain this? These services come and go fairly frequently.

Just keep a list of nodes/ways and the location ID and it should be
trivial to keep up to date.

> Also, if you're doing a bulk import, how do you avoid double tagging
> existing servos?

You can pull nodes within a few hundred metres and try to auto match,
or manual import.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/9 Liz :
> give us some practical examples and we can go and visit our local BP servos
> and try to work out what "Other" is

AA Oakleigh 145.09  -37.88  5362162 - 168 Warrigal Rd   Oakleigh
VIC 3166
AA Reservoir145.02  -37.72  372235 - 37 Gisborne Cres   Reservoir   
VIC 3073
BP Capalaba 153.19  -27.52  4208Corner Of Old Cleveland Road And
Dollery RoadCapalabaQLD 4157
BP Connect Eagle Vale   150.82  -34.03  2806Cnr Eagle Vale Dr & Gould
Rd  Eagle Vale  NSW 2558
BP Connect Elizabeth Vale   138.68  -34.74  5204Cnr Main North Rd &
Hogarth Rd  Elizabeth Vale  SA  5112
BP Connect Loganholme   153.19  -27.69  81424120 Pacific
MotorwayLOGANHOLME  QLD 4129
BP Connect Wembley  115.82  -31.94  6211240 Cambridge StWembley 
WA  6014
BP Darlington   138.58  -35.01  59451483 South Rd   Darlington  SA  
5047
BP Express Modbury  138.68  -34.83  9132931 North East Rd   Modbury 
SA  5092
BP Georges Hall 151 -33.92  9513Cnr Marion St & Surrey Ave  GEORGES 
HALLNSW 2198
BP Granville151 -33.83  558527 Woodville Road   Granville   
NSW 2142
BP Holden Hill  138.67  -34.85  5965724 North East Road Holden Hill 
SA  5088
BP Kelmscott116.02  -32.12  54962907 Albany Highway Kelmscott   
WA  6111
BP Kootingal Country Inn151.05  -31.06  85912 Chelmsford St 
Kootingal   NSW 2352
BP Loftus   151.05  -34.05  899 127 Loftus avenue   loftus  NSW 
2232
BP Marmor   150.74  -23.69  5360Bruce Hwy   Marmor  QLD 4702
BP Seven Hills  150.94  -33.77  985 156 Prospect HwySeven Hills 
NSW 2147
BP Steel River  151.73  -32.89  582310 Murray Dwyer Circuit Mayfield West   
NSW 2304
BP Tarneit  144.69  -37.85  5801CORNER OF DERRIMUT ROAD AND SAYERS
ROADTARNEIT VIC 3029

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Steve Bennett]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:52 PM, John Smith wrote:

>
> "NAME","X","Y"," LocationNo"," Street"," Town"," State"," Postcode","
> Phone"," Unlead"," PremiumUnlead"," BPUltimate"," E10"," Diesel","
> Any_Autogas"," Hours_24"," Trailers"," LPGBottle"," Toilets","
> CarWash"," CleanGo"," SuperWash"," Other"," Pay"," EFTPOS","
> GIFT_CARD"," ATM"," Restaurant"," TruckStops"," Express","
> BP_UltimateDiesel"
>
>
Can we really maintain this? These services come and go fairly frequently.

Also, if you're doing a bulk import, how do you avoid double tagging
existing servos?

Steve
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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Liz]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009, John Smith wrote:
> Anyway, this is getting off topic, the fields from the BP are as
> following, most are binary fields (Y or N), no idea what the other
> field is for.
>
> "NAME","X","Y"," LocationNo"," Street"," Town"," State"," Postcode","
> Phone"," Unlead"," PremiumUnlead"," BPUltimate"," E10"," Diesel","
> Any_Autogas"," Hours_24"," Trailers"," LPGBottle"," Toilets","
> CarWash"," CleanGo"," SuperWash"," Other"," Pay"," EFTPOS","
> GIFT_CARD"," ATM"," Restaurant"," TruckStops"," Express","
> BP_UltimateDiesel"

give us some practical examples and we can go and visit our local BP servos 
and try to work out what "Other" is


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/9 Liz :
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2009, Sam Couter wrote:
>> Ethanol is
>> for drinking and swindling motorists and governments out of some cash so
>> it should be noted for those of us who'd rather push the car than put E10
>> in it.
>
> I thought E10 was so I didn't have to pay a 30c per litre premium to put 95
> octane fuel in a car.

The problem with E10 for most cars is it doesn't recognise the extra
oxygen atom so the car runs less effiecent by about 3% which is why
it's 3% cheaper most of the time, however cars in the US can run up to
E85 because the chip in the car can auto sense the extra oxygen and
alter the the fuel/air mix.

The other problem for older cars is the the fuel line may not be able
to cope with the ethernol and can eat the rubber/plastic away,
most/all modern cars don't suffer this problem.

Of course by using ethernol you are burning food, luckily most of
which is from sugar cane in Australia, which has about an 8x return of
energy unlike the silly americans burning corn which doesn't even
break even energy wise and it's driving up the cost of fertilisers etc
and making food production more expensive and so the world goes on
starving.

Of course if they pumped the waste from coal fire power plants into
green houses that have water tanks full of algea and then turn the
algea into fuel you gat something like 40,000-80,000L of ethernol per
acre, it gets rid of all the emissions in a safe manner and we don't
need to import crude oil.

But of course that would be too smart so we can't have that.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/9 Sam Couter :
> and usually only sold during the winter months in alpine areas. Ethanol is
> for drinking and swindling motorists and governments out of some cash so

As if the govt doesn't get enough tax already, and they get tax on top
of tax when the GST kicks in.

Anyway, this is getting off topic, the fields from the BP are as
following, most are binary fields (Y or N), no idea what the other
field is for.

"NAME","X","Y"," LocationNo"," Street"," Town"," State"," Postcode","
Phone"," Unlead"," PremiumUnlead"," BPUltimate"," E10"," Diesel","
Any_Autogas"," Hours_24"," Trailers"," LPGBottle"," Toilets","
CarWash"," CleanGo"," SuperWash"," Other"," Pay"," EFTPOS","
GIFT_CARD"," ATM"," Restaurant"," TruckStops"," Express","
BP_UltimateDiesel"

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Liz]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009, Sam Couter wrote:
> Ethanol is
> for drinking and swindling motorists and governments out of some cash so
> it should be noted for those of us who'd rather push the car than put E10
> in it.

I thought E10 was so I didn't have to pay a 30c per litre premium to put 95 
octane fuel in a car.


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Sam Couter]

Ross Scanlon  wrote:
> Make sure if you are going to enter fuel information then you include all 
> types, (lpg, 91, 95, 98 octane, diesel, etc)

More: Automotive LPG is different tax-wise from barbecue LPG and
therefore sold and dispensed differently, sometimes you can refill your
own LPG bottle and sometimes you can only buy a full one or swap an empty
one for a full one. Alpine diesel is a different fuel from normal diesel
and usually only sold during the winter months in alpine areas. Ethanol is
for drinking and swindling motorists and governments out of some cash so
it should be noted for those of us who'd rather push the car than put E10
in it. Also some servos have pre-mixed two-stroke fuel, kerosene or
firewood available, just in case you drive a ride-on mower or a
wood-fired traction engine with satnav.

Or maybe that's going a little too far.
-- 
Sam Couter |  mailto:s...@couter.id.au
OpenPGP fingerprint:  A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05  5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C


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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Ross Scanlon]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 14:37:59 +1000
John Smith  wrote:

> 2009/12/9 Chris Barham :
> > ref: Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?
> > BP allows free download of GPS data for their Australian service stations.
> >  They also offer another CSV dataset download with servo phone numbers,
> > names and address.  Could these two be useful to OpenStreetMap as a
> > datasource?
> 
> I think so.
> 
> > The data
> > URL: http://www.bp.com/iframe.do?categoryId=9026935&contentId=7049357
> > I'd be interested in volunteering to bulk upload this data via an API; but
> > as I've only recently joined the project, I'd be grateful for some guidance
> > on whether this is a good idea and also what API to use and how to go about
> > it.
> 
> My only concern is that I couldn't easily find a license for the data.
> 
> There is very few points so it would possibly be easiest just to do it
> manually, by the time you sort out the data and upload it via a batch
> script it will probably take just as long.
> 
> Before you upload it is usually good to think about what to tag, there
> is a bunch of useful information beyond phone numbers include the
> types of fuels sold, if the place is 24 hours etc.

Make sure if you are going to enter fuel information then you include all 
types, (lpg, 91, 95, 98 octane, diesel, etc)

Cheers
Ross

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

I just opened the all states csv files and pasted them into a spread
sheet and ended up with 1,387 rows, there was 2 duplicate rows I
removed and 1 row without co-ords.

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Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[John Smith]

2009/12/9 Chris Barham :
> ref: Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?
> BP allows free download of GPS data for their Australian service stations.
>  They also offer another CSV dataset download with servo phone numbers,
> names and address.  Could these two be useful to OpenStreetMap as a
> datasource?

I think so.

> The data
> URL: http://www.bp.com/iframe.do?categoryId=9026935&contentId=7049357
> I'd be interested in volunteering to bulk upload this data via an API; but
> as I've only recently joined the project, I'd be grateful for some guidance
> on whether this is a good idea and also what API to use and how to go about
> it.

My only concern is that I couldn't easily find a license for the data.

There is very few points so it would possibly be easiest just to do it
manually, by the time you sort out the data and upload it via a batch
script it will probably take just as long.

Before you upload it is usually good to think about what to tag, there
is a bunch of useful information beyond phone numbers include the
types of fuels sold, if the place is 24 hours etc.

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[talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

[Chris Barham]

ref: Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

BP allows free download of GPS data for their Australian service stations.
 They also offer another CSV dataset download with servo phone numbers,
names and address.  Could these two be useful to OpenStreetMap as a
datasource?

The data URL:
http://www.bp.com/iframe.do?categoryId=9026935&contentId=7049357

I'd be interested in volunteering to bulk upload this data via an API; but
as I've only recently joined the project, I'd be grateful for some guidance
on whether this is a good idea and also what API to use and how to go about
it.

Regards,
Chris
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