Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Sebastian S.]

Since last JOSM release building=fire_station is also now recognised/available 
in the drop down.

On 3 February 2020 10:17:18 am AEDT, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>What I was talking about were
>
>building=fire_station
>
>.. of which there were 944 in the OSM data base WORLD WIDE.
>
>There are now some ~1,200 world wide.
>
>See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abuilding%3Dfire_station
>Note I created this wiki page to encourage others to tag the building 
>detail.
>
>Note: Some places have both a 'Fire and Rescue' and 'Rural Fire' 
>stations, these may be in separate locations but within the same town.
>
>
>On 2/2/20 5:32 pm, Andrew Davidson wrote:
>> On 26/1/20 12:29 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:> However, there were 
>> "only" 718 listed. Earlier, Warin mentioned 944 > stations in the 
>> database, & I've spotted 3 that I know of that weren't > listed (or 
>> previously mapped).
>> I was confused by this as well. At the moment there are 734 "fire 
>> stations" in OSM (NSW):
>>
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qjr
>>
>> But these include a number of control centres and training facilities
>
>> so it a bit over the actual number correctly mapped.
>>
>> According to the latest annual report of FRNSW there are 335 metro 
>> fire stations in NSW, and NSW RFS says there are 2002 rural brigades.
>
>> Given that a rural brigade does not necessarily have a physical 
>> presence on the ground or they might have more than one home, we
>can't 
>> really say how many RFB stations there are.
>>
>> The Base Map has 1688 rural fire stations and 338 metro, which is
>just 
>> over 2000 (but these include control centres and training facilites
>as 
>> well). By my calcs that's about 1200 missing fire stations, and
>that's 
>> before we start worrying about the 300 RFB that may or may not be on 
>> the LPI map.
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Warin]

What I was talking about were

building=fire_station

.. of which there were 944 in the OSM data base WORLD WIDE.

There are now some ~1,200 world wide.

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abuilding%3Dfire_station
Note I created this wiki page to encourage others to tag the building 
detail.


Note: Some places have both a 'Fire and Rescue' and 'Rural Fire' 
stations, these may be in separate locations but within the same town.



On 2/2/20 5:32 pm, Andrew Davidson wrote:
On 26/1/20 12:29 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:> However, there were 
"only" 718 listed. Earlier, Warin mentioned 944 > stations in the 
database, & I've spotted 3 that I know of that weren't > listed (or 
previously mapped).
I was confused by this as well. At the moment there are 734 "fire 
stations" in OSM (NSW):


https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qjr

But these include a number of control centres and training facilities 
so it a bit over the actual number correctly mapped.


According to the latest annual report of FRNSW there are 335 metro 
fire stations in NSW, and NSW RFS says there are 2002 rural brigades. 
Given that a rural brigade does not necessarily have a physical 
presence on the ground or they might have more than one home, we can't 
really say how many RFB stations there are.


The Base Map has 1688 rural fire stations and 338 metro, which is just 
over 2000 (but these include control centres and training facilites as 
well). By my calcs that's about 1200 missing fire stations, and that's 
before we start worrying about the 300 RFB that may or may not be on 
the LPI map.


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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Davidson]

On 26/1/20 12:29 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:> However, there were 
"only" 718 listed. Earlier, Warin mentioned 944 > stations in the 
database, & I've spotted 3 that I know of that weren't > listed (or 
previously mapped).
I was confused by this as well. At the moment there are 734 "fire 
stations" in OSM (NSW):


https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qjr

But these include a number of control centres and training facilities so 
it a bit over the actual number correctly mapped.


According to the latest annual report of FRNSW there are 335 metro fire 
stations in NSW, and NSW RFS says there are 2002 rural brigades. Given 
that a rural brigade does not necessarily have a physical presence on 
the ground or they might have more than one home, we can't really say 
how many RFB stations there are.


The Base Map has 1688 rural fire stations and 338 metro, which is just 
over 2000 (but these include control centres and training facilites as 
well). By my calcs that's about 1200 missing fire stations, and that's 
before we start worrying about the 300 RFB that may or may not be on the 
LPI map.


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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

PS the nation wide emergency facilities database is released at
https://www.emsina.org/emergencyfacilitiesdatabase. It is CC BY Geoscience
Australia and GA have agreed to the waiver. So licensing wise it's
available for use.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 07:35, Sebastian S.  wrote:

> Hi Graeme,
> I tried to fix some of the skipped ones, however only in one case I could
> find a reference website from RFS or RFB. I however was able to add two
> fire stations that where missing, the base map is your friend here.
> Adding 220 stations via searching the base map is however not a sensible
> way of doing it.
>
>
> On 26 January 2020 12:29:29 pm AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick <
> graemefi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> & done! (apart from ~17 that are too hard, mainly because I can't see if
>> there actually is a Station in that spot / area)
>>
>> However, there were "only" 718 listed. Earlier, Warin mentioned 944
>> stations in the database, & I've spotted 3 that I know of that weren't
>> listed (or previously mapped).
>>
>> How do we find the extra 220 odd?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 11:10, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed as to non fire stations - control center is one, the other
>>> headquarters.
>>>
>>> Headquarters would be an 'office' type function.
>>>
>>> Control center looks, from imagery, to not only control but supply?
>>>
>>> There is a fire & rescue station in 'town' that is mapped into OSM.
>>>
>>> There are a number of rural fire stations around Narrabri .. some of
>>> them unmapped.
>>> These show up very well on the LPI Base Map even when zoomed out a fair
>>> way.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/1/20 8:12 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 22:40, Sebastian Spiess 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've done a few. Two raised questions.

 Narrabri - There are two fire ' services'  according to LPI map. How to
 tag them?
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336523
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like there is a Fire Control Center there, I'd just tag that
>>> building as office=government + operator + name, since they have more of an
>>> office function.
>>>
>>>


 and RAYMOND TERRACE Fire Station - This seems to be and old fire
 station
 as according to https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/news.php?news=608
 a new one was built. I can't tell if the old one was closed down.

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336870
>>>
>>>
>>> If you're not sure and street level imagery doesn't help, just mark it
>>> as too hard and skip it. You can create a note so that someone with local
>>> knowledge can help.
>>>



 Am 2020-01-08 21:24, schrieb Andrew Harvey:
 > If someone has carefully surveyed the name as signposted I leave that
 > intact. branch is not mandatory but helpful since consumers can choose
 > how they want to format the such as "Narooma", "Narooma RFS", "Narooma
 > Rural Fire Brigade", etc. especially when combined with operator. The
 > whole point was to be neutral on the exact name format and not engage
 > in a mass edit to reformat them to be the same, but instead respect
 > names will look different based on signage.
 >
 > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 21:05, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
 >
 >> I have used the LPI Base Map for both name and operator, see
 >>
 >> Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699) [operator fire & rescue]
 >>
 >> and
 >>
 >> Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698)
 >>
 >> I do not bother with the 'branch' as that is usually the leading
 >> value in the name and probably the same as the areas administration
 >> name too.
 >>
 >> The LPI Base Map also gives the area so it can be mapped as a way.
 >>
 >> On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
 >>
 >> No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!
 >>
 >> Thanks
 >>
 >> Graeme
 >>
 >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey
 >>  wrote:
 >>
 >> It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a
 >> reference and picking up their contact details, but to err on the
 >> side of caution taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au [1] and
 >> mass importing is not advised.
 >>
 >> So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For
 >> the RFS operated fire stations normally the name will indicate this,
 >> or a quick look at google search results may also indicate,
 >> sometimes it's visible on Mapillary based on the signage.
 >>
 >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick
 >>  wrote:
 >>
 >> Just a thought?
 >>
 >> Are we allowed to use  https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467
 >> or not?
 >>
 >> I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?
 >>
 >> Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?
 >>
 >> Thanks
 >>
 >> Graeme
 

Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Warin]

On 27/1/20 5:38 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:




On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 06:33, Sebastian S. > wrote:


Hi Graeme,
I however was able to add two fire stations that where missing,
the base map is your friend here.
Adding 220 stations via searching the base map is however not a
sensible way of doing it.


Yep, I've put a few more in myself by doing that, but searching 80 
sq km of NSW, 20 sq k at a time? No, I don't think so, thanks! :-)



I've added a couple, but I was not searching for them but other things.



  Thanks

Graeme



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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 06:33, Sebastian S.  wrote:

> Hi Graeme,
> I however was able to add two fire stations that where missing, the base
> map is your friend here.
> Adding 220 stations via searching the base map is however not a sensible
> way of doing it.
>

Yep, I've put a few more in myself by doing that, but searching 80 sq
km of NSW, 20 sq k at a time? No, I don't think so, thanks! :-)

  Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Sebastian S.]

Hi Graeme,
I tried to fix some of the skipped ones, however only in one case I could find 
a reference website from RFS or RFB. I however was able to add two fire 
stations that where missing, the base map is your friend here.
Adding 220 stations via searching the base map is however not a sensible way of 
doing it.


On 26 January 2020 12:29:29 pm AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
wrote:
>& done! (apart from ~17 that are too hard, mainly because I can't see
>if
>there actually is a Station in that spot / area)
>
>However, there were "only" 718 listed. Earlier, Warin mentioned 944
>stations in the database, & I've spotted 3 that I know of that weren't
>listed (or previously mapped).
>
>How do we find the extra 220 odd?
>
>Thanks
>
>Graeme
>
>
>On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 11:10, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed as to non fire stations - control center is one, the other
>> headquarters.
>>
>> Headquarters would be an 'office' type function.
>>
>> Control center looks, from imagery, to not only control but supply?
>>
>> There is a fire & rescue station in 'town' that is mapped into OSM.
>>
>> There are a number of rural fire stations around Narrabri .. some of
>them
>> unmapped.
>> These show up very well on the LPI Base Map even when zoomed out a
>fair
>> way.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/1/20 8:12 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 22:40, Sebastian Spiess 
>wrote:
>>
>>> I've done a few. Two raised questions.
>>>
>>> Narrabri - There are two fire ' services'  according to LPI map. How
>to
>>> tag them?
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336523
>>
>>
>> Looks like there is a Fire Control Center there, I'd just tag that
>> building as office=government + operator + name, since they have more
>of an
>> office function.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and RAYMOND TERRACE Fire Station - This seems to be and old fire
>station
>>> as according to https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/news.php?news=608
>>> a new one was built. I can't tell if the old one was closed down.
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336870
>>
>>
>> If you're not sure and street level imagery doesn't help, just mark
>it as
>> too hard and skip it. You can create a note so that someone with
>local
>> knowledge can help.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 2020-01-08 21:24, schrieb Andrew Harvey:
>>> > If someone has carefully surveyed the name as signposted I leave
>that
>>> > intact. branch is not mandatory but helpful since consumers can
>choose
>>> > how they want to format the such as "Narooma", "Narooma RFS",
>"Narooma
>>> > Rural Fire Brigade", etc. especially when combined with operator.
>The
>>> > whole point was to be neutral on the exact name format and not
>engage
>>> > in a mass edit to reformat them to be the same, but instead
>respect
>>> > names will look different based on signage.
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 21:05, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I have used the LPI Base Map for both name and operator, see
>>> >>
>>> >> Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699) [operator fire & rescue]
>>> >>
>>> >> and
>>> >>
>>> >> Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698)
>>> >>
>>> >> I do not bother with the 'branch' as that is usually the leading
>>> >> value in the name and probably the same as the areas
>administration
>>> >> name too.
>>> >>
>>> >> The LPI Base Map also gives the area so it can be mapped as a
>way.
>>> >>
>>> >> On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks
>>> >>
>>> >> Graeme
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a
>>> >> reference and picking up their contact details, but to err on the
>>> >> side of caution taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au [1]
>and
>>> >> mass importing is not advised.
>>> >>
>>> >> So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For
>>> >> the RFS operated fire stations normally the name will indicate
>this,
>>> >> or a quick look at google search results may also indicate,
>>> >> sometimes it's visible on Mapillary based on the signage.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Just a thought?
>>> >>
>>> >> Are we allowed to use 
>https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467
>>> >> or not?
>>> >>
>>> >> I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?
>>> >>
>>> >> Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks
>>> >>
>>> >> Graeme
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Links:
>>> > --
>>> > [1] http://fire.nsw.gov.au
>>> > ___
>>> > Talk-au mailing list
>>> > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>>
>>
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>>

Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

& done! (apart from ~17 that are too hard, mainly because I can't see if
there actually is a Station in that spot / area)

However, there were "only" 718 listed. Earlier, Warin mentioned 944
stations in the database, & I've spotted 3 that I know of that weren't
listed (or previously mapped).

How do we find the extra 220 odd?

Thanks

Graeme


On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 11:10, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreed as to non fire stations - control center is one, the other
> headquarters.
>
> Headquarters would be an 'office' type function.
>
> Control center looks, from imagery, to not only control but supply?
>
> There is a fire & rescue station in 'town' that is mapped into OSM.
>
> There are a number of rural fire stations around Narrabri .. some of them
> unmapped.
> These show up very well on the LPI Base Map even when zoomed out a fair
> way.
>
>
>
> On 9/1/20 8:12 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 22:40, Sebastian Spiess  wrote:
>
>> I've done a few. Two raised questions.
>>
>> Narrabri - There are two fire ' services'  according to LPI map. How to
>> tag them?
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336523
>
>
> Looks like there is a Fire Control Center there, I'd just tag that
> building as office=government + operator + name, since they have more of an
> office function.
>
>
>>
>>
>> and RAYMOND TERRACE Fire Station - This seems to be and old fire station
>> as according to https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/news.php?news=608
>> a new one was built. I can't tell if the old one was closed down.
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336870
>
>
> If you're not sure and street level imagery doesn't help, just mark it as
> too hard and skip it. You can create a note so that someone with local
> knowledge can help.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 2020-01-08 21:24, schrieb Andrew Harvey:
>> > If someone has carefully surveyed the name as signposted I leave that
>> > intact. branch is not mandatory but helpful since consumers can choose
>> > how they want to format the such as "Narooma", "Narooma RFS", "Narooma
>> > Rural Fire Brigade", etc. especially when combined with operator. The
>> > whole point was to be neutral on the exact name format and not engage
>> > in a mass edit to reformat them to be the same, but instead respect
>> > names will look different based on signage.
>> >
>> > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 21:05, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have used the LPI Base Map for both name and operator, see
>> >>
>> >> Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699) [operator fire & rescue]
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >>
>> >> Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698)
>> >>
>> >> I do not bother with the 'branch' as that is usually the leading
>> >> value in the name and probably the same as the areas administration
>> >> name too.
>> >>
>> >> The LPI Base Map also gives the area so it can be mapped as a way.
>> >>
>> >> On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >> Graeme
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a
>> >> reference and picking up their contact details, but to err on the
>> >> side of caution taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au [1] and
>> >> mass importing is not advised.
>> >>
>> >> So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For
>> >> the RFS operated fire stations normally the name will indicate this,
>> >> or a quick look at google search results may also indicate,
>> >> sometimes it's visible on Mapillary based on the signage.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just a thought?
>> >>
>> >> Are we allowed to use  https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467
>> >> or not?
>> >>
>> >> I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?
>> >>
>> >> Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >> Graeme
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Links:
>> > --
>> > [1] http://fire.nsw.gov.au
>> > ___
>> > Talk-au mailing list
>> > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Warin]

Agreed as to non fire stations - control center is one, the other 
headquarters.


Headquarters would be an 'office' type function.

Control center looks, from imagery, to not only control but supply?

There is a fire & rescue station in 'town' that is mapped into OSM.

There are a number of rural fire stations around Narrabri .. some of 
them unmapped.
These show up very well on the LPI Base Map even when zoomed out a fair 
way.




On 9/1/20 8:12 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:


On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 22:40, Sebastian Spiess > wrote:


I've done a few. Two raised questions.

Narrabri - There are two fire ' services'  according to LPI map.
How to
tag them?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336523


Looks like there is a Fire Control Center there, I'd just tag that 
building as office=government + operator + name, since they have more 
of an office function.




and RAYMOND TERRACE Fire Station - This seems to be and old fire
station
as according to https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/news.php?news=608
a new one was built. I can't tell if the old one was closed down.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336870


If you're not sure and street level imagery doesn't help, just mark it 
as too hard and skip it. You can create a note so that someone with 
local knowledge can help.





Am 2020-01-08 21:24, schrieb Andrew Harvey:
> If someone has carefully surveyed the name as signposted I leave
that
> intact. branch is not mandatory but helpful since consumers can
choose
> how they want to format the such as "Narooma", "Narooma RFS",
"Narooma
> Rural Fire Brigade", etc. especially when combined with
operator. The
> whole point was to be neutral on the exact name format and not
engage
> in a mass edit to reformat them to be the same, but instead respect
> names will look different based on signage.
>
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 21:05, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I have used the LPI Base Map for both name and operator, see
>>
>> Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699) [operator fire & rescue]
>>
>> and
>>
>> Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698)
>>
>> I do not bother with the 'branch' as that is usually the leading
>> value in the name and probably the same as the areas administration
>> name too.
>>
>> The LPI Base Map also gives the area so it can be mapped as a way.
>>
>> On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>
>> No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey
>> mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a
>> reference and picking up their contact details, but to err on the
>> side of caution taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au
 [1] and
>> mass importing is not advised.
>>
>> So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For
>> the RFS operated fire stations normally the name will indicate
this,
>> or a quick look at google search results may also indicate,
>> sometimes it's visible on Mapillary based on the signage.
>>
>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick
>> mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Just a thought?
>>
>> Are we allowed to use https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467
>> or not?
>>
>> I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?
>>
>> Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>
>
>
> Links:
> --
> [1] http://fire.nsw.gov.au
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 22:40, Sebastian Spiess  wrote:

> I've done a few. Two raised questions.
>
> Narrabri - There are two fire ' services'  according to LPI map. How to
> tag them?
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336523


Looks like there is a Fire Control Center there, I'd just tag that building
as office=government + operator + name, since they have more of an office
function.


>
>
> and RAYMOND TERRACE Fire Station - This seems to be and old fire station
> as according to https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/news.php?news=608
> a new one was built. I can't tell if the old one was closed down.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336870


If you're not sure and street level imagery doesn't help, just mark it as
too hard and skip it. You can create a note so that someone with local
knowledge can help.

>
>
>
> Am 2020-01-08 21:24, schrieb Andrew Harvey:
> > If someone has carefully surveyed the name as signposted I leave that
> > intact. branch is not mandatory but helpful since consumers can choose
> > how they want to format the such as "Narooma", "Narooma RFS", "Narooma
> > Rural Fire Brigade", etc. especially when combined with operator. The
> > whole point was to be neutral on the exact name format and not engage
> > in a mass edit to reformat them to be the same, but instead respect
> > names will look different based on signage.
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 21:05, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I have used the LPI Base Map for both name and operator, see
> >>
> >> Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699) [operator fire & rescue]
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >> Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698)
> >>
> >> I do not bother with the 'branch' as that is usually the leading
> >> value in the name and probably the same as the areas administration
> >> name too.
> >>
> >> The LPI Base Map also gives the area so it can be mapped as a way.
> >>
> >> On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> >>
> >> No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Graeme
> >>
> >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a
> >> reference and picking up their contact details, but to err on the
> >> side of caution taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au [1] and
> >> mass importing is not advised.
> >>
> >> So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For
> >> the RFS operated fire stations normally the name will indicate this,
> >> or a quick look at google search results may also indicate,
> >> sometimes it's visible on Mapillary based on the signage.
> >>
> >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Just a thought?
> >>
> >> Are we allowed to use  https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467
> >> or not?
> >>
> >> I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?
> >>
> >> Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Graeme
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > --
> > [1] http://fire.nsw.gov.au
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Sebastian Spiess]

I've done a few. Two raised questions.

Narrabri - There are two fire ' services'  according to LPI map. How to 
tag them?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336523

and RAYMOND TERRACE Fire Station - This seems to be and old fire station 
as according to https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/news.php?news=608

a new one was built. I can't tell if the old one was closed down.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79336870


Am 2020-01-08 21:24, schrieb Andrew Harvey:

If someone has carefully surveyed the name as signposted I leave that
intact. branch is not mandatory but helpful since consumers can choose
how they want to format the such as "Narooma", "Narooma RFS", "Narooma
Rural Fire Brigade", etc. especially when combined with operator. The
whole point was to be neutral on the exact name format and not engage
in a mass edit to reformat them to be the same, but instead respect
names will look different based on signage.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 21:05, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:


I have used the LPI Base Map for both name and operator, see

Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699) [operator fire & rescue]

and

Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698)

I do not bother with the 'branch' as that is usually the leading
value in the name and probably the same as the areas administration
name too.

The LPI Base Map also gives the area so it can be mapped as a way.

On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!

Thanks

Graeme

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey
 wrote:

It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a
reference and picking up their contact details, but to err on the
side of caution taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au [1] and
mass importing is not advised.

So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For
the RFS operated fire stations normally the name will indicate this,
or a quick look at google search results may also indicate,
sometimes it's visible on Mapillary based on the signage.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick
 wrote:

Just a thought?

Are we allowed to use  https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467
or not?

I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?

Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?

Thanks

Graeme




Links:
--
[1] http://fire.nsw.gov.au
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

If someone has carefully surveyed the name as signposted I leave that
intact. branch is not mandatory but helpful since consumers can choose how
they want to format the such as "Narooma", "Narooma RFS", "Narooma Rural
Fire Brigade", etc. especially when combined with operator. The whole point
was to be neutral on the exact name format and not engage in a mass edit to
reformat them to be the same, but instead respect names will look different
based on signage.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 21:05, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have used the LPI Base Map for both name and operator, see
>
> Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699) [operator fire & rescue]
>
> and
>
> Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698)
>
> I do not bother with the 'branch' as that is usually the leading value in
> the name and probably the same as the areas administration name too.
>
> The LPI Base Map also gives the area so it can be mapped as a way.
>
>
> On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
> No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a reference
>> and picking up their contact details, but to err on the side of caution
>> taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au and mass importing is not
>> advised.
>>
>> So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For the RFS
>> operated fire stations normally the name will indicate this, or a quick
>> look at google search results may also indicate, sometimes it's visible on
>> Mapillary based on the signage.
>>
>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just a thought?
>>>
>>> Are we allowed to use  https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467 or
>>> not?
>>>
>>> I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?
>>>
>>> Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Graeme
>>>
>>
>
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Warin]

I have used the LPI Base Map for both name and operator, see

Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699) [operator fire & rescue]

and

Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698)

I do not bother with the 'branch' as that is usually the leading value 
in the name and probably the same as the areas administration name too.


The LPI Base Map also gives the area so it can be mapped as a way.


On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey > wrote:


It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a
reference and picking up their contact details, but to err on the
side of caution taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au
 and mass importing is not advised.

So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For
the RFS operated fire stations normally the name will indicate
this, or a quick look at google search results may also indicate,
sometimes it's visible on Mapillary based on the signage.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Just a thought?

Are we allowed to use
https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467 or not?

I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?

Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?

Thanks

Graeme




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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Warin]

The LPI Base Map distinguishes between the 2 ..

And I see no problem in using that source.

Examples
Way: Narooma Rural Fire Service (761122698) [operator Rural Fire Service]
and
Way: Narooma Fire Station (761122699)  [operator Fire and Rescue]

There are quite close together. An advantage of using the LPI Base Map 
is that it gives an area.



On 08/01/20 16:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey > wrote:


It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a
reference and picking up their contact details, but to err on the
side of caution taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au
 and mass importing is not advised.

So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For
the RFS operated fire stations normally the name will indicate
this, or a quick look at google search results may also indicate,
sometimes it's visible on Mapillary based on the signage.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Just a thought?

Are we allowed to use
https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467 or not?

I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?

Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?

Thanks

Graeme




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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

No, just confirming details was all I was thinking about!

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:57, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a reference
> and picking up their contact details, but to err on the side of caution
> taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au and mass importing is not
> advised.
>
> So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For the RFS
> operated fire stations normally the name will indicate this, or a quick
> look at google search results may also indicate, sometimes it's visible on
> Mapillary based on the signage.
>
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>> Just a thought?
>>
>> Are we allowed to use  https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467 or
>> not?
>>
>> I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?
>>
>> Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

It's normally considered okay to check a business website as a reference
and picking up their contact details, but to err on the side of caution
taking a whole database from fire.nsw.gov.au and mass importing is not
advised.

So I'd suggest not just copying everything from that website. For the RFS
operated fire stations normally the name will indicate this, or a quick
look at google search results may also indicate, sometimes it's visible on
Mapillary based on the signage.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 15:39, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Just a thought?
>
> Are we allowed to use  https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467 or not?
>
> I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?
>
> Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Just a thought?

Are we allowed to use  https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=467 or not?

I've thinking we would still need permission & waiver?

Big question, I guess, is - are we commercial or not?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

+1 you can use the tag
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dwater_tank
There is also
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dsuction_point but
you'd need local knowledge for these.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 14:32, Daniel O'Connor 
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 1:14 PM Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> This MapRoulette challange is mostly about adding the operator and
>> operator:wikidata tags and also branch if you can.
>>
>>
> If you do see other attributes like solar (rare), or water tanks (less
> rare); please do map those too.
>
> Map of stations with a solar panel within 50m:
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Py1
>
> Map of stations with a water tank nearby:
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Py2
>
> Those are two bits of infrastructure it's reasonably easy to ask a council
> to look at purchasing; where it makes sense.
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Daniel O'Connor]

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 1:14 PM Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> This MapRoulette challange is mostly about adding the operator and
> operator:wikidata tags and also branch if you can.
>
>
If you do see other attributes like solar (rare), or water tanks (less
rare); please do map those too.

Map of stations with a solar panel within 50m:
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Py1

Map of stations with a water tank nearby:
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Py2

Those are two bits of infrastructure it's reasonably easy to ask a council
to look at purchasing; where it makes sense.
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

I'd normally just leave the name as is it, since the name should be as
signposted which could vary. This MapRoulette challange is mostly about
adding the operator and operator:wikidata tags and also branch if you can.

The branch is usually just the suburb eg. if it's named "Heathcote Fire
Brigade" then "branch=Heathcote", it helps to normalise the name.

I would say let's only map what we know if unsure then skip. Especially
with regards to fire station numbers.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 at 13:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Just starting on the Roulette challenge (which is *much* slower than
> fixing phone numbers!:-))
>
> Just want to confirm please, that it should be:
>
> Name=NSW Rural Fire Service (name)
>
> branch=(name) Rural Fire Station - I've seen one so far that's listed as
> Brigade, rather than Station - either / or or one or the other in
> particular?
>
> operator=NSW Rural Fire Service
>
> operator:wikidata=Q7011777
>
>
> name=Fire and Rescue NSW Station (number) (name)
>
> branch=(name) Fire Station
>
> operator=Fire and Rescue NSW
>
> operator:wikidata=Q5451532
>
> In regard to the Station number, does anybody know if the "station" shown
> on the FRNSW site actually means that station, or is it only a random page
> number? eg https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=9210=24 - is
> Batlow Station 24?
>
>
> One thing I noticed with tagging the area as amenity-fire-station, is that
> it defaults (at least iD does) to building=yes.
>
> If you then add a driveway or similar, without deleting the building=key,
> these will then error, as a driveway can't cross a "building"
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 13:31, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>> Fine!
>>
>> The volunteer rural firies certainly do distinguish themselves from the
>> urban professionals!, & their stations are all labelled Rural Fire Brigade,
>> usually with RFS logo, so I'll go with that for rural & QFES for urban, but
>> the same Wikidata tag on both.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Just starting on the Roulette challenge (which is *much* slower than fixing
phone numbers!:-))

Just want to confirm please, that it should be:

Name=NSW Rural Fire Service (name)

branch=(name) Rural Fire Station - I've seen one so far that's listed as
Brigade, rather than Station - either / or or one or the other in
particular?

operator=NSW Rural Fire Service

operator:wikidata=Q7011777


name=Fire and Rescue NSW Station (number) (name)

branch=(name) Fire Station

operator=Fire and Rescue NSW

operator:wikidata=Q5451532

In regard to the Station number, does anybody know if the "station" shown
on the FRNSW site actually means that station, or is it only a random page
number? eg https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=9210=24 - is
Batlow Station 24?


One thing I noticed with tagging the area as amenity-fire-station, is that
it defaults (at least iD does) to building=yes.

If you then add a driveway or similar, without deleting the building=key,
these will then error, as a driveway can't cross a "building"


Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 13:31, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Fine!
>
> The volunteer rural firies certainly do distinguish themselves from the
> urban professionals!, & their stations are all labelled Rural Fire Brigade,
> usually with RFS logo, so I'll go with that for rural & QFES for urban, but
> the same Wikidata tag on both.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>>

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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Fine!

The volunteer rural firies certainly do distinguish themselves from the
urban professionals!, & their stations are all labelled Rural Fire Brigade,
usually with RFS logo, so I'll go with that for rural & QFES for urban, but
the same Wikidata tag on both.

Thanks

Graeme

>
>>>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

For operator it's best to choose the lowest level operator, even if they
are just a part of a larger organisation because the wikidata should
contain the hierarchy. operator is still useful even without
operator:wikidata. The motivation in NSW for adding these operator tags was
to distinguish the volunteer rural fire stations from the metropolitan
professional ones.

I just don't have the local knowledge for Queensland, but I'd say if they
fire stations have different signage and organisation it might make sense
to use different operator tags. The only other option could be to use the
brand tag, if they are all operated by the same organisation but just have
different "branding".


On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 13:22, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Just added Qld Fire & Emergency details to the Guidelines page.
>
> It's a bit of a confusing one though - the various volunteer Rural Fire
> Brigades come under the Rural Fire Service, but that in turn is subordinate
> to QFES.
>
> Qld RFS doesn't have it's own Wikidata tag - should I list it as well,
> possibly with the same tag number?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 09:08, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Seb and Warin. The wiki page is perfect.
>>
>> On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 09:47, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have taken the liberty of making a few corrections to the
>>> amenity=fire_station and building=fire_station
>>>
>>> regarding multiple buildings and name ...  to conform to normal mapping
>>> practice. I think there have been translation 'issues' ... :)
>>>
>>> I have also taken my pen to the description ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/01/20 23:28, Sebastian Spiess wrote:
>>> > I took the liberty to add it to the wiki page. The
>>> > building=fire_station is references on EN and DE translation of the
>>> > amenity page thus I guess there should be no issue.
>>> >
>>> > On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
>>> >> There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be
>>> >> documented.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Actually addind a link to the page would be helpful, wouldn't it ‽

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Fire_Stations

Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 12:22, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Just added Qld Fire & Emergency details to the Guidelines page.
>
> It's a bit of a confusing one though - the various volunteer Rural Fire
> Brigades come under the Rural Fire Service, but that in turn is subordinate
> to QFES.
>
> Qld RFS doesn't have it's own Wikidata tag - should I list it as well,
> possibly with the same tag number?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 09:08, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Seb and Warin. The wiki page is perfect.
>>
>> On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 09:47, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have taken the liberty of making a few corrections to the
>>> amenity=fire_station and building=fire_station
>>>
>>> regarding multiple buildings and name ...  to conform to normal mapping
>>> practice. I think there have been translation 'issues' ... :)
>>>
>>> I have also taken my pen to the description ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/01/20 23:28, Sebastian Spiess wrote:
>>> > I took the liberty to add it to the wiki page. The
>>> > building=fire_station is references on EN and DE translation of the
>>> > amenity page thus I guess there should be no issue.
>>> >
>>> > On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
>>> >> There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be
>>> >> documented.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Just added Qld Fire & Emergency details to the Guidelines page.

It's a bit of a confusing one though - the various volunteer Rural Fire
Brigades come under the Rural Fire Service, but that in turn is subordinate
to QFES.

Qld RFS doesn't have it's own Wikidata tag - should I list it as well,
possibly with the same tag number?

Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 09:08, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> Thanks Seb and Warin. The wiki page is perfect.
>
> On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 09:47, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have taken the liberty of making a few corrections to the
>> amenity=fire_station and building=fire_station
>>
>> regarding multiple buildings and name ...  to conform to normal mapping
>> practice. I think there have been translation 'issues' ... :)
>>
>> I have also taken my pen to the description ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/01/20 23:28, Sebastian Spiess wrote:
>> > I took the liberty to add it to the wiki page. The
>> > building=fire_station is references on EN and DE translation of the
>> > amenity page thus I guess there should be no issue.
>> >
>> > On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
>> >> There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be
>> >> documented.
>> >>
>> >> I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

Thanks Seb and Warin. The wiki page is perfect.

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 09:47, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I have taken the liberty of making a few corrections to the
> amenity=fire_station and building=fire_station
>
> regarding multiple buildings and name ...  to conform to normal mapping
> practice. I think there have been translation 'issues' ... :)
>
> I have also taken my pen to the description ...
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/01/20 23:28, Sebastian Spiess wrote:
> > I took the liberty to add it to the wiki page. The
> > building=fire_station is references on EN and DE translation of the
> > amenity page thus I guess there should be no issue.
> >
> > On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
> >> There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be
> >> documented.
> >>
> >> I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.
> >>
> >
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Warin]

I have taken the liberty of making a few corrections to the 
amenity=fire_station and building=fire_station


regarding multiple buildings and name ...  to conform to normal mapping 
practice. I think there have been translation 'issues' ... :)


I have also taken my pen to the description ...





On 05/01/20 23:28, Sebastian Spiess wrote:
I took the liberty to add it to the wiki page. The 
building=fire_station is references on EN and DE translation of the 
amenity page thus I guess there should be no issue.


On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be 
documented.


I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.






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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Warin]

Created the wiki page for building=fire_station ... it is a small page 
but there.


On 05/01/20 21:42, David Wales wrote:

Thanks all,

Changeset:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79209273

On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be 
documented.


I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.

On 05/01/20 21:02, Andrew Harvey wrote:
Okay with me though it would be good if that tag was documented at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building


On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:15, Sebastian S. > wrote:


Hi,
Similar to schools the building should be tagged

building=fire_station

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fire_station


On 5 January 2020 4:55:26 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey
mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yes, this is

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM_element,
there should only be one amenity=fire_station for a single
fire station.

Where possible I prefer to trace the site boundary as this
can be useful information and put all the tags on that, and
then just have a way inside it with building=yes an none of
the fire station tags.

But I think it's also fine to just have a node, or to just
have the building without the site as interim solutions or
for fire stations where the extent is just the building
which don't have a yard.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 15:27, David Wales
mailto:daviewa...@disroot.org>> wrote:

Somewhat related to this.

Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced
building, *and* a traced site border.
Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.

The building has the rest of the identifying tags.

I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature
tagged with amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the
tags. Should this be the building, or the site border?

See link below:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674

Regards,
David Wales

On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess
mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:

Andrew,
I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.

branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen


I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks
like, but branch should be just "Narrabeen", without
the "Fire Station" words. Then you could still have
name=Narrabeen Fire Station.

Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag
was the name.

I've also added
building =    fire_station

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815








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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Sebastian Spiess]

I took the liberty to add it to the wiki page. The building=fire_station
is references on EN and DE translation of the amenity page thus I guess
there should be no issue.

On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
> There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be
> documented.
>
> I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.
>
> On 05/01/20 21:02, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>> Okay with me though it would be good if that tag was documented
>> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:15, Sebastian S. > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Similar to schools the building should be tagged
>>
>> building=fire_station
>>
>> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fire_station
>>
>>
>> On 5 January 2020 4:55:26 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey
>> mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, this
>> is 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM_element,
>> there should only be one amenity=fire_station for a single
>> fire station.
>>
>> Where possible I prefer to trace the site boundary as this
>> can be useful information and put all the tags on that, and
>> then just have a way inside it with building=yes an none of
>> the fire station tags.
>>
>> But I think it's also fine to just have a node, or to just
>> have the building without the site as interim solutions or
>> for fire stations where the extent is just the building which
>> don't have a yard.
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 15:27, David Wales
>> mailto:daviewa...@disroot.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Somewhat related to this.
>>
>> Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced
>> building, *and* a traced site border.
>> Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.
>>
>> The building has the rest of the identifying tags.
>>
>> I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature
>> tagged with amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the
>> tags. Should this be the building, or the site border?
>>
>> See link below:
>> 
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Wales
>>
>> On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess
>>> mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Andrew,
>>> I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.
>>>
>>> branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
>>> name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks
>>> like, but branch should be just "Narrabeen", without the
>>> "Fire Station" words. Then you could still have
>>> name=Narrabeen Fire Station.
>>>  
>>>
>>> Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was
>>> the name.
>>>
>>> I've also added
>>> building =    fire_station
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[David Wales]

Thanks all,

Changeset:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79209273

On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
> There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be
> documented.
>
> I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.
>
> On 05/01/20 21:02, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>> Okay with me though it would be good if that tag was documented
>> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:15, Sebastian S. > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Similar to schools the building should be tagged
>>
>> building=fire_station
>>
>> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fire_station
>>
>>
>> On 5 January 2020 4:55:26 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey
>> mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, this
>> is 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM_element,
>> there should only be one amenity=fire_station for a single
>> fire station.
>>
>> Where possible I prefer to trace the site boundary as this
>> can be useful information and put all the tags on that, and
>> then just have a way inside it with building=yes an none of
>> the fire station tags.
>>
>> But I think it's also fine to just have a node, or to just
>> have the building without the site as interim solutions or
>> for fire stations where the extent is just the building which
>> don't have a yard.
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 15:27, David Wales
>> mailto:daviewa...@disroot.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Somewhat related to this.
>>
>> Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced
>> building, *and* a traced site border.
>> Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.
>>
>> The building has the rest of the identifying tags.
>>
>> I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature
>> tagged with amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the
>> tags. Should this be the building, or the site border?
>>
>> See link below:
>> 
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Wales
>>
>> On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess
>>> mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Andrew,
>>> I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.
>>>
>>> branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
>>> name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks
>>> like, but branch should be just "Narrabeen", without the
>>> "Fire Station" words. Then you could still have
>>> name=Narrabeen Fire Station.
>>>  
>>>
>>> Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was
>>> the name.
>>>
>>> I've also added
>>> building =    fire_station
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Warin]

There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be 
documented.


I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.

On 05/01/20 21:02, Andrew Harvey wrote:
Okay with me though it would be good if that tag was documented at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building


On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:15, Sebastian S. > wrote:


Hi,
Similar to schools the building should be tagged

building=fire_station

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fire_station


On 5 January 2020 4:55:26 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey
mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yes, this is

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM_element,
there should only be one amenity=fire_station for a single
fire station.

Where possible I prefer to trace the site boundary as this can
be useful information and put all the tags on that, and then
just have a way inside it with building=yes an none of the
fire station tags.

But I think it's also fine to just have a node, or to just
have the building without the site as interim solutions or for
fire stations where the extent is just the building which
don't have a yard.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 15:27, David Wales
mailto:daviewa...@disroot.org>> wrote:

Somewhat related to this.

Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced building,
*and* a traced site border.
Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.

The building has the rest of the identifying tags.

I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature tagged
with amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the tags.
Should this be the building, or the site border?

See link below:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674

Regards,
David Wales

On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess
mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:

Andrew,
I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.

branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen


I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks
like, but branch should be just "Narrabeen", without the
"Fire Station" words. Then you could still have
name=Narrabeen Fire Station.

Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was
the name.

I've also added
building =    fire_station

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815





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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

Okay with me though it would be good if that tag was documented at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:15, Sebastian S.  wrote:

> Hi,
> Similar to schools the building should be tagged
>
> building=fire_station
>
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fire_station
>
>
> On 5 January 2020 4:55:26 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, this is
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM_element,
>> there should only be one amenity=fire_station for a single fire station.
>>
>> Where possible I prefer to trace the site boundary as this can be useful
>> information and put all the tags on that, and then just have a way inside
>> it with building=yes an none of the fire station tags.
>>
>> But I think it's also fine to just have a node, or to just have the
>> building without the site as interim solutions or for fire stations where
>> the extent is just the building which don't have a yard.
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 15:27, David Wales  wrote:
>>
>>> Somewhat related to this.
>>>
>>> Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced building, *and* a
>>> traced site border.
>>> Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.
>>>
>>> The building has the rest of the identifying tags.
>>>
>>> I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature tagged with
>>> amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the tags. Should this be the
>>> building, or the site border?
>>>
>>> See link below:
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> David Wales
>>>
>>> On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Andrew,
 I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.

 branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
 name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen

>>>
>>> I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks like, but branch
>>> should be just "Narrabeen", without the "Fire Station" words. Then you
>>> could still have name=Narrabeen Fire Station.
>>>
>>>
 Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was the name.

 I've also added
 building =fire_station

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815

>>>
>>> ___
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Sebastian S.]

Hi,
Similar to schools the building should be tagged 

building=fire_station

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fire_station


On 5 January 2020 4:55:26 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>Yes, this is
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM_element,
>there should only be one amenity=fire_station for a single fire
>station.
>
>Where possible I prefer to trace the site boundary as this can be
>useful
>information and put all the tags on that, and then just have a way
>inside
>it with building=yes an none of the fire station tags.
>
>But I think it's also fine to just have a node, or to just have the
>building without the site as interim solutions or for fire stations
>where
>the extent is just the building which don't have a yard.
>
>On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 15:27, David Wales 
>wrote:
>
>> Somewhat related to this.
>>
>> Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced building, *and* a
>traced
>> site border.
>> Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.
>>
>> The building has the rest of the identifying tags.
>>
>> I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature tagged with
>> amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the tags. Should this be the
>> building, or the site border?
>>
>> See link below:
>>
>>
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Wales
>>
>> On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess 
>wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>> I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.
>>>
>>> branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
>>> name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen
>>>
>>
>> I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks like, but
>branch
>> should be just "Narrabeen", without the "Fire Station" words. Then
>you
>> could still have name=Narrabeen Fire Station.
>>
>>
>>> Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was the name.
>>>
>>> I've also added
>>> building =fire_station
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815
>>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

Yes, this is
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM_element,
there should only be one amenity=fire_station for a single fire station.

Where possible I prefer to trace the site boundary as this can be useful
information and put all the tags on that, and then just have a way inside
it with building=yes an none of the fire station tags.

But I think it's also fine to just have a node, or to just have the
building without the site as interim solutions or for fire stations where
the extent is just the building which don't have a yard.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 15:27, David Wales  wrote:

> Somewhat related to this.
>
> Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced building, *and* a traced
> site border.
> Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.
>
> The building has the rest of the identifying tags.
>
> I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature tagged with
> amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the tags. Should this be the
> building, or the site border?
>
> See link below:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674
>
> Regards,
> David Wales
>
> On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess  wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>> I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.
>>
>> branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
>> name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen
>>
>
> I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks like, but branch
> should be just "Narrabeen", without the "Fire Station" words. Then you
> could still have name=Narrabeen Fire Station.
>
>
>> Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was the name.
>>
>> I've also added
>> building =fire_station
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815
>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[David Wales]

Somewhat related to this.

Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced building, *and* a
traced site border.
Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.

The building has the rest of the identifying tags.

I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature tagged with
amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the tags. Should this be the
building, or the site border?

See link below:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674

Regards,
David Wales

On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess  > wrote:
>
> Andrew,
> I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.
>
> branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
> name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen
>
>
> I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks like, but
> branch should be just "Narrabeen", without the "Fire Station" words.
> Then you could still have name=Narrabeen Fire Station.
>  
>
> Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was the name.
>
> I've also added
> building =    fire_station
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Andrew Harvey]

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess  wrote:

> Andrew,
> I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.
>
> branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
> name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen
>

I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks like, but branch
should be just "Narrabeen", without the "Fire Station" words. Then you
could still have name=Narrabeen Fire Station.


> Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was the name.
>
> I've also added
> building =fire_station
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Sebastian Spiess]

Andrew,
I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.

branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen

Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was the name.

I've also added
building =    fire_station

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815

On 4/1/20 9:06 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> I've updated the Australian Tagging Guidelines with NSW fire station
> operators 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Fire_Stations.
>
>
> I'm proposing:
>
> for NSW Rural Fire Service stations to use 
> operator=NSW Rural Fire Service
> operator:wikdata=Q7011777
>
> for Fire and Rescue NSW stations to use
> operator=Fire and Rescue NSW
> operator:wikidata=Q5451532
>
> Does that sound okay?
>
> I'm also suggesting to use the "branch=" tag to use the short name of
> the fire station branch, which is usually the suburb name and is
> printed on the fire trucks, since the regular name= tag could contain
> a longer signposted name.
>
> For other states, if this tagging is okay, please help fill in the
> operator and operator:wikidata tags on the wiki page for your states.
>
> I've created a MapRoulette challenge for NSW to fill in these tags
> either as implied from the name, local knowledge or from street lever
> imagery https://maproulette.org/challenge/11820
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[Sebastian Spiess]

Sounds good to me.

On 4/1/20 9:06 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> I've updated the Australian Tagging Guidelines with NSW fire station
> operators 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Fire_Stations.
>
>
> I'm proposing:
>
> for NSW Rural Fire Service stations to use 
> operator=NSW Rural Fire Service
> operator:wikdata=Q7011777
>
> for Fire and Rescue NSW stations to use
> operator=Fire and Rescue NSW
> operator:wikidata=Q5451532
>
> Does that sound okay?
>
> I'm also suggesting to use the "branch=" tag to use the short name of
> the fire station branch, which is usually the suburb name and is
> printed on the fire trucks, since the regular name= tag could contain
> a longer signposted name.
>
> For other states, if this tagging is okay, please help fill in the
> operator and operator:wikidata tags on the wiki page for your states.
>
> I've created a MapRoulette challenge for NSW to fill in these tags
> either as implied from the name, local knowledge or from street lever
> imagery https://maproulette.org/challenge/11820
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[cleary]

Yes. This seems right.




On Fri, 3 Jan 2020, at 10:06 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> I've updated the Australian Tagging Guidelines with NSW fire station 
> operators 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Fire_Stations.
> 
> I'm proposing:
> 
> for NSW Rural Fire Service stations to use 
> operator=NSW Rural Fire Service
> operator:wikdata=Q7011777
> 
> for Fire and Rescue NSW stations to use
> operator=Fire and Rescue NSW
> operator:wikidata=Q5451532
> 
> Does that sound okay?
> 
> I'm also suggesting to use the "branch=" tag to use the short name of 
> the fire station branch, which is usually the suburb name and is 
> printed on the fire trucks, since the regular name= tag could contain a 
> longer signposted name.
> 
> For other states, if this tagging is okay, please help fill in the 
> operator and operator:wikidata tags on the wiki page for your states.
> 
> I've created a MapRoulette challenge for NSW to fill in these tags 
> either as implied from the name, local knowledge or from street lever 
> imagery https://maproulette.org/challenge/11820
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>

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