Re: [Talk-ca] Local mapathon, BC2020 imports and Climate resiliency challenge

[Jonathan Brown]

I’ll meet with Kelsey and try to get to an OSM Toronto Meetup to see how Nate 
and others end up doing it in Toronto. Maybe Kelsey and I can do adapt that 
experience for Northumberland County. We have a local group interested in bike 
trails that I can approach.  

I’m also interested in the HOT pilot “Integrating Machine Learning into the 
Tasking Manager: Notes on a Direction” 
https://www.hotosm.org/updates/integrating-machine-learning-into-the-tasking-manager/.
 I learned about this work at the session on “Assisted Intelligence - How 
humans map with the support of new technologies” that Felix (HOT) and Surabhi 
(Microsoft) presented at State of the Map in Heidelberg.

In the long run, I could see organizing a hackathon using the OSM building 
footprints and linked open data to design a climate resiliency planning 
challenge at the local level. (See example based on Open City Model: 
http://www.buildzero.org/).

Jonathan  
From: john whelan
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 12:13 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org; kelseysaunder...@gmail.com 

Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing building and routing info 
regionally/locally(Jonathan)

I was under the impression that most buildings in both Port Hope and Cobourg 
had been manually mapped.

Now the outlines have been done it really needs boots on the ground to add 
detail.  There are addresses from Canvec which give an address range so Stats 
might have something better but I'm not sure.

What exactly are you looking for?  I'm sure if you and Kelsey were to sit down 
over a mug of coffee as the local mappers to the area you may decide that a 
buildings import would be useful but I'm not sure how many more buildings 
remain to be mapped in the area.  

Cheerio John

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 06:10, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
Ditto Kevin’s post. Erik, I live in Cobourg and have an interest in working 
with local mappers to map Northumberland County. At the moment we only have one 
novice (myself) and Kelsey Saunders, a GIS grad. 
 
Jonathan 
 

 
 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing building and routing info regionally/locally (Jonathan)

[Jonathan Brown]

Ditto Kevin’s post. Erik, I live in Cobourg and have an interest in working 
with local mappers to map Northumberland County. At the moment we only have one 
novice (myself) and Kelsey Saunders, a GIS grad. 

Jonathan 

We are a local/regional courier and trucking company in southern Ontario
> with a decent sized fleet.  We are using Mapbox for our mapping / nav
> engine, therefore subject to using OSM data.  We have noticed a number of
> “issues/lack of data” for southern Ontario.  This ranges from lack of lane
> info, to lack of buildings, missing streets, missing exit/on-ramps to for
> Hwy 400 (which we added, and had Mapbox expedite the changesets) as it
> affected navigation for our drivers.
>
>
>
> We are currently using a few devices to provide street level imagery via
> Mapillary, with a push coming shortly to map 1000km per day of street
> imagery.  We are currently mapping about 250km per day in York Region.  Our
> internal goal is to provide /gathered street level imagery for 75% York
> Region by end of January 2020.
>
>
>
> We are not in a position to provide map edits etc, as due to staff
> resources and lack of experience, our staff are not suited to become ‘map
> editors’ as our core business is transportation.  We are just trying to
> assist the editors with accurate ground level info.
>
>
>
> I would be interested in further understanding how we can become involved
> on a regional level to improve OSM in southern Ontario.


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Re: [Talk-ca] Local Mapper Apps for Student Engagement

[Jonathan Brown]

It was nice chatting with you last night, Martijn. Could you post a link to the 
app you mentioned for geocoding missing OSM data with local mappers? That would 
be a great activity for a “structured” activity involving K-12 educators, 
students, municipal policymakers and GIS staff. Municipal staff could also use 
coop students to do some of the local mapping to support other local 
organizations working on projects like food security or “open-source” 
micro-urban development projects, similar to the Laneway Project I mentioned: 
http://www.thelanewayproject.ca/torontolanewaymap 

Jonathan Brown

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Re: [Talk-ca] Defining a local mapper group

[Jonathan Brown]

Ideally, a local mapper/group would be one that contributed data to an open 
digital map that can be verified and used to solve a problem (e.g., food 
security, fresh water, climate change, etc.). The local mapping group should be 
able to contribute data via satellite imagery, open data, and/or a physical 
location. The challenge is how to cultivate and maintain local mapper groups 
based on volunteer work. 

Jonathan Brown

From: John Whelan
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 10:01 AM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Local groups as part of import plan

The problem is defining and contacting a local group.  Once defined then they 
can make the decision.

I've seen as few as two people make a local group decision on an import before 
now although normally it is done over coffee.

Also we get into who is a local mapper.

Many people have an interest in seeing the data imported but I'm under the 
impression only those with a OpenStreetMap userid who have contributed count.

Would anyone care to define a local mapper or group?

Thanks John

Jonathan Brown wrote on 2019-03-15 9:46 AM:

Could we get Stats Can to support a few local groups who want to use a common 
framework for a collaborative research project that addresses a sustainable 
development goal outcome (e.g., the OSM fresh security challenge 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Food_security and 
https://www.usda.gov/topics/food-and-nutrition/food-security) ? 
 
Jonathan 
 



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Re: [Talk-ca] Local groups as part of import plan

[Jonathan Brown]

Could we get Stats Can to support a few local groups who want to use a common 
framework for a collaborative research project that addresses a sustainable 
development goal outcome (e.g., the OSM fresh security challenge 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Food_security and 
https://www.usda.gov/topics/food-and-nutrition/food-security) ? 

Jonathan 

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Re: [Talk-ca] OSM Local Mappers and Editing Tool

[Jonathan Brown]

JW wrote: 
The way forward probably I suggest an opt out method.  Those locations that
have a local group who would prefer more control we block out.  At the
moment this would include Toronto and Montreal.  That way smaller
municipalities can take advantage of the infrastructure that has been set
up but larger locations with local groups can make their own decisions.

John: We are running a training session for OSM mapping in Northumberland 
County (see description 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dKutxWnsspfYUhzR73laZ_UV8srVq-4KxM3z4ZT3qC0/edit?usp=sharing).
 We are looking or team participants and volunteers to assist with our first 
OSM local mapping event in Cobourg, Ontario. The GoGeomatics Peterborough event 
on the same day will be using ESRI Community Mapping tool for missing maps in 
Durham Region. 

We are also looking for help in setting up an OSM Task Manager Project for 
Northumberland County. We would then be happy to test out different editing 
tools that day and for future mapping events in our region with students, 
teachers and the broader public as we proceed, to use Tim’s term, “bit by bit.” 
We have Kelsey Saunders and Jennifer Rolph, local GIS professionals, helping 
with the training on March 12. We will have 12 laptops with mice set up for the 
general public and teams to be trained on how to add features and building 
attributes in OSM for Cobourg and Port Hope. Because the students are looking 
for coop placements in local government, we are also providing training on 
ArcGIS Online. The idea is to encourage crowdsourcing with OSM because it is 
open source and teaches students the value of ground truthing.

Jonathan Brown


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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 and School Mappers

[Jonathan Brown]

Great overview of OSM and tools for working with the data. How could this open 
data that includes school latitude and longitude be used for a building mapping 
project in OSM? 

School Information and Student Demographics . 
https://www.ontario.ca/data/school-information-and-student-demographics 

Jonathan


From: Pierre Béland
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 10:28 AM
To: Jonathan Brown; John Whelan
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 and School Mappers

http://jakobmiksch.eu/post/openstreetmap_overview/




 
Pierre 


Le samedi 24 novembre 2018 10 h 24 min 06 s HNE, John Whelan 
 a écrit : 


http://teachosm.org/en/

Might be of some use.

Cheerio John

Jonathan Brown wrote on 2018-11-22 7:45 PM:

Alessandro had some engineering profs from the University of Rome working with 
a local high school for testing the mobile app used for BC2020. 
 
Here’s a Comenius program for Life Long Learning of the European Union EU. The 
official title of the project is: "To boost local and international tourism 
with OpenStreetMap". The project's acronym is: "BoostOSM" 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Life_Long_Learning_Mapping_Project 
 
Jonathan
 
From: John Whelan
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2018 7:08 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: BC2020 and School Mappers
 
I hadn't thought about the programming side but C# certainly can be useful.

https://www.jatws.org/openstreetmap/openstreetmap.html

It needs visual studio 2017 but it has a sample program from which other 
programs looking for other things could be written.

I think that would be high school level though.

There has been some work in creating activities for schools in OSM but they 
would need chasing down.

Cheerio John

Jonathan Brown wrote on 2018-11-22 6:33 PM:
Climate change planning would be good. That topic could be linked to the UN 
sustainable development goals. Also, in Ontario there is a big need to 
incorporate math skills into learning by doing (e.g., 
http://www.barbareeduke.com/ccmath/mathactivities.htm (adapted for OSM), or for 
postsecondary GIS and programming for computer science courses.
At CivicTech Toronto Meetup last Tuesday someone pointed out David MacKay’s 
book Sustainable Energy: Without Hot Air https://withouthotair.com/ 
Jonathan 
 
 
From: john whelan
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2018 5:46 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 and School Mappers
 
So what do we need?
 
A hook of some type to build on?
 
An inventory of buildings for climate change planning?  I understand in many 
cities some 80% of apartment buildings are forty years old now and identifying 
them and upgrading them would help with climate change emissions.  
Unfortunately they tend to be privately owned and coaxing landlords to invest 
money is not easy.
 
An introduction to basic stats?
 
I'm not a teacher but I'm sure we can sort something out.
 
We do have a tasking manager that covers Canada so tiles can be set up for a 
local area.
 
I suggest an import first then something after that.
 
Thoughts
 
Thanks John
 
On Thu, 22 Nov 2018, 5:22 pm Jonathan Brown https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
 
 
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 and School Mappers

[Jonathan Brown]

Climate change planning would be good. That topic could be linked to the UN 
sustainable development goals. Also, in Ontario there is a big need to 
incorporate math skills into learning by doing (e.g., 
http://www.barbareeduke.com/ccmath/mathactivities.htm (adapted for OSM), or for 
postsecondary GIS and programming for computer science courses.
At CivicTech Toronto Meetup last Tuesday someone pointed out David MacKay’s 
book Sustainable Energy: Without Hot Air https://withouthotair.com/ 
Jonathan 


From: john whelan
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2018 5:46 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 and School Mappers

So what do we need?

A hook of some type to build on?

An inventory of buildings for climate change planning?  I understand in many 
cities some 80% of apartment buildings are forty years old now and identifying 
them and upgrading them would help with climate change emissions.  
Unfortunately they tend to be privately owned and coaxing landlords to invest 
money is not easy.

An introduction to basic stats?

I'm not a teacher but I'm sure we can sort something out.

We do have a tasking manager that covers Canada so tiles can be set up for a 
local area.

I suggest an import first then something after that.

Thoughts

Thanks John

On Thu, 22 Nov 2018, 5:22 pm Jonathan Brown https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 and School Mappers

[Jonathan Brown]

“Should we try to tailor the information on Building 2020 towards inexperienced 
mappers to make it easier for schools etc to get involved?”

Good idea, John. We need a process similar to HOT for local beginners and maybe 
a way of connecting the mapping to a sustainable development challenge in the 
community.

Jonathan 

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Re: [Talk-ca] OSM and Open Data Imports - Chicago Experience

[Jonathan Brown]

Stirling Quinn pointed out this presentation on the topic of imports by Ian 
Dees and need for input on tagging from OSM global community, not just the 
local OSM community. He also covers licensing issue and misrepresentation of 
city should the data be used incorrectly. He “harassed” Chief Data Officer 
until the city adopted MIT license for the city’s open data and posted their 
open data in Github stripped of personal information (e.g., name of building 
owner). He talks about how it is now much easier with the building import for 
OSM mappers to geocode and the community became a lot stronger for testing 
civic apps (see 66 page document co-authored by Chicago OSM map users and users 
at CutGroup#6:OpenStreetMap Editor 
http://www.smartchicagocollaborative.org/cutgroup-6-openstreetmap-editor/ that 
helped bridge the gap between OSM developers and open data community in Chicago 
– a direct result of his importing open city data and engaging the user 
community. Being on Github and resolving issues by making poll requests is an 
interesting process despite the large size of the datasets. 

Jonathan 

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 2:59 PM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 129, Issue 6

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in
  Crowdsourcing Platforms (Jonathan Brown)
   2. Re: Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in
  Crowdsourcing Platforms (John Whelan)
   3. Re: Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in
  Crowdsourcing Platforms (OSM Volunteer stevea)
   4. Re: Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in
  Crowdsourcing Platforms (Pierre Béland)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 11:28:03 -0400
From: Jonathan Brown 
To: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary
Participation in Crowdsourcing Platforms
Message-ID: <5bdc6d05.1c69fb81.5a176.d...@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Apropos the ongoing efforts to educate new volunteers, the discussion section 
of this research paper on enablers and barriers may be useful 
https://ac.els-cdn.com/S0747563216305295/1-s2.0-S0747563216305295-main.pdf?_tid=31ea73b8-7cb4-4eca-acc4-062aa79c278b=1541171937_ecb61791a7d798a1491503b71f69b0ab
 

Jonathan 

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:31:35 -0400
From: John Whelan 
To: Jonathan Brown 
Cc: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary
Participation in Crowdsourcing Platforms
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

My feeling is OpenStreetMap has two sides. The first is local adding 
local knowledge to the map.  The other I'll call armchair mapping.  When 
Stats Canada did the pilot it tapped the local Ottawa mappers who meet 
physically.

I would agree that amongst mappers with the most edits there is a high 
number of retired people and those with disabilities involved and these 
may not be visible.  Tapping them for groups coming together to map can 
be a problem.

In my view typically the most productive mappers are those with a 
special interest.  Adding WiFi access or churches for example or even a 
change of street name.

We also have a number of teachers who would like to use OSM and in 
particular the building project to involve their students.  We get a 
fair amount of data added but the quality can be questionable.  HOT and 
others I think have found that using a restricted set of tasks and tags 
works best.

My personal feeling is giving feedback is useful.  So the challenge for 
the building project is how to engage people.  What are the most useful 
tags to add?

I'd suggest some sort of web site giving the number of buildings mapped 
and the tags that have been added by city.  Graphs with time as one axis 
would be nice.

Certainly certain activities are more complex than others.  Importing 
buildings is not a task I'd suggest for teenage mapper with twenty 
minutes experience.  Breaking out the tasks is a task in itself and for 
4 million bui

Re: [Talk-ca] GitHub app for BC2020i Challenge

[Jonathan Brown]

This is cool. Could we not develop a BC2020i challenge similar to the ECCE 
annual challenge? (See McMaster University Team’s winning ECCE 2018 entry: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRb_g1llT00=youtu.be=PLdgq5G0ox73VEQFJd4No6peb4NP-GFbdU
 
 
Jonathan 

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Re: [Talk-ca] CBS Netherlands Statistics and Open Data

[Jonathan Brown]

Open data released by Statistics Netherlands – rated second in the world behind 
Denmark in open data inventory – saw a surge to 3.2 million open data 
retrievals in the second quarter of 2018 alone 
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/corporate/2018/31/explosive-growth-in-use-of-cbs-open-data,
 especially in the private sector where its use may raise some interesting 
public policy issues for students to explore.  

Some young researchers from the Netherlands Statistics CBS group also 
participated in an innovative professional learning opportunity, the hackatrain 
event while enroute to a conference in Berlin: 
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/corporate/2018/28/hackatrain-creative-mobility-solutions.
 

A cool idea might be to put out a challenge to design an updated version of The 
National Dream: The Great “Digital” Highway 2020 to 2030. It might make for an 
interesting “participatory” narrative.  

Jonathan 

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Wikidata

[Jonathan Brown]

Thanks, John. We’ll discuss this at our June 8 planning meeting for the Sept 28 
Durham Mapathon 2 event. Where municipal staff identify a policy challenge and 
engage students in applying their local knowledge worked well on May 3. Maybe 
Keith can share what he learned working with high school classes in Manitoba 
using the BC2020i framework. 
Jonathan 

From: john whelan
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 6:56 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Wikidata

I think it depends on what you are trying to do.  There are two parts to 
BC2020i the first is map the buildings the second is enrich the buildings with 
tags.

The first part can be done best by importing Open Data if the licenses align 
and at the moment few do and of those that do not all have accurate building 
data suitable and even if they do it needs specialist knowledge to know all the 
steps and to do the import.

It can be done with mapping from imagery but whilst mapping using the 
building_tool plugin in JOSM does work well in a mapathon environment using iD 
seems to give rise to data quality issues and you don't really want to offend 
to many OpenStreetMap mappers too often.

Enriching the tags of existing buildings probably doesn't look so interesting 
to students but it really is of value especially if its local since the sort of 
number of levels of the building cannot be seen from imagery that we are 
licensed to use.  Even in Ottawa there are many areas where although we have 
all the buildings we have many without tags saying how high they are etc.  I'm 
not even sure we have a list of what would be most useful.  Streetcomplete an 
Android app is very useful for adding data.

Locally we have houses that are split level, so a garage in the basement with a 
room over the top but the rest of the house is single storey.  I'm not sure how 
these should be tagged.  Is it documented anywhere?

What might be interesting is to get them to pull OSM data into R R.org and do 
some analysis and that might be valuable in places like Africa where they have 
the same problems but fewer resources.

Cheerio John



On 31 May 2018 at 10:44, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
Has anyone thought of using Wikidata to enhance the BC2020i project work with 
secondary and postsecondary students?  
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Main_Page
 
How could structured, linked open data help municipalities and regions engage 
students in collaborative research projects? We are exploring ways to build on 
the Durham Mapathon event of May 3. At that event, Durham Region staff 
collaborated with senior secondary school teachers and students from Clarington 
Municipality on policy challenges. The Durham Region GIS staff provided the 
technical support. 
 
Jonathan 
 

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Wikidata

[Jonathan Brown]

Has anyone thought of using Wikidata to enhance the BC2020i project work with 
secondary and postsecondary students?  
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Main_Page

How could structured, linked open data help municipalities and regions engage 
students in collaborative research projects? We are exploring ways to build on 
the Durham Mapathon event of May 3. At that event, Durham Region staff 
collaborated with senior secondary school teachers and students from Clarington 
Municipality on policy challenges. The Durham Region GIS staff provided the 
technical support. 

Jonathan 

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 and Open Data GitHub Project

[Jonathan Brown]

FYI-This open data standards document promotes HOT Lunches for encouraging OSM 
mapping. But what I like is the connection with open data standards and citizen 
science for education:  
https://www.gitbook.com/book/azavea/open-data-standards/details

Jonathan 

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 Open Data and Data Mirroring

[Jonathan Brown]

Lessons learned from Finland and Poland in using OSM and Open Data: 
https://blog.core.okfn.org/2018/03/28/open-data-day-2018-getting-the-local-communities-in-porto-and-helsinki-to-talk-about-open-mapping/

Also, the research by Professor Peter Johnson at Waterloo on models of direct 
editing of government spatial data is germane to the BC2020 mapathon events. 
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15230406.2016.1176536
Two issues related to licensing: 
A) data ownership and license may permit or restrict government usage of 
contributed data, integration with existing government data, and hamper its 
ability to share data with others, particularly under an open license. 
Governments may face issues with accepting data from individuals through their 
own data collection system as users would need to acknowledge that they claim 
no right to the data or the database. Without such a clause, government would 
be at risk of having data contributors potentially remove their edits from a 
database. 
B) A second challenge would come from the integration of part or all of a 
separate database, such as OSM into a government database, which is then 
provided under a separate license than OSM (Saunders, Scassa, and Lauriault 
2012). OSM currently uses a license that has a share-alike clause, where any 
significant portion of the OSM data incorporated into a “derivative” database 
must continue to be licensed under the same Open Database License (ODbL v.1.0), 
including a share-alike clause. This means that any derivative data set must 
then be shared with the same or compatible licensing as the current OSM 
database (for more information, see https://wiki.osmfoundation. 
org/wiki/License). Through a complex and emerging field of database licensing 
law and compatibility, this share-alike clause may restrict the potential for 
blended OSM-government data products to be created as this derivative database 
would need to be contributed back to OSM and be made available under a separate 
license than from the government open data license. For example, the United 
States Geologic Survey (USGS) notes that they cannot integrate OSM data into 
the USGS National Map since OSM data uses a Creative Commons Share-Alike 
license, while their work needs to be under the public domain (Wolf, McNinch, 
and Poore 2011).

For the Durham Region Mapathon even that has been rescheduled for May 3, we 
could use crowdsourcing and data mirroring (below) based on the feedback I got 
from Professor Johnson who has demonstrated the value of open municipal data 
and GIS to local K-12 classroom teachers and students. 

Peter explores the following four models for inputting geospatial data into 
government databases in the above paper: 
1. status quo of open data
2. data curation
3. data mirroring
4. acceptance of external crowdsourced data.

Potential Issues with crowdsourcing: 
• “jurisdictionality of contribution, anonymity, and indeed the authority of 
contributors to make changes are all relevant in the instance that government 
were to adopt OSM. Through using OSM as a source of not only geospatial data, 
but as a conduit for edits, government shifts power over data creation and 
editing outside the walls of city hall.” (see page 7). 

Jonathan 
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 Calgary Challenges and Best Practices

[Jonathan Brown]

Combination of bringing their own and facilitators from Durham Region using 
their work laptops. To simplify things, we could set up a few facilitators with 
JAVA-installed machines. 

From: john whelan
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 11:54 AM
To: James
Cc: Jonathan Brown; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 Calgary Challenges and Best Practices

So one way would be to teach a subset of JOSM?
I had Carlton mapathon with new mappers do building outlines in JOSM, its very 
simple, fast and accurate a much better tool than iD for building outlines.  
However it does need JAVA on the machine and a few minutes set up.
Question to Jonathon who do the machines belong to?  If its the students own 
then ask them to install JAVA before they come and we can sort out some fairly 
simple instructions.  If they are provided then you may need to check the 
policy on what can be installed.
Cheerio John

On 23 March 2018 at 11:12, James <james2...@gmail.com> wrote:
depends if you are using chrome or not, seems like a mixed content error(tm is 
http and osm is https) chrome now blocks mixed content. 

Last time I tried to enable HTTPS on TM2 it broke syncing with JOSM as it would 
try to open up a self signed cert(not accepted by default) on port 8112 with no 
errors or feedback. So I either brake ID boundaries or JOSM(unless a user knows 
how to accept cert)

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 11:01 AM Jonathan Brown, <jonab...@gmail.com> wrote:
It would be good to have a screen shot demonstrating these kinds of errors. We 
could use these screen shots of good and bad examples to demonstrate good 
practices. James, will the TM2 issue affect our March 29 mapathon?
 
Jonathan
 
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 Calgary Challenges and Best Practices

[Jonathan Brown]

It would be good to have a screen shot demonstrating these kinds of errors. We 
could use these screen shots of good and bad examples to demonstrate good 
practices. James, will the TM2 issue affect our March 29 mapathon?

Jonathan

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Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

[Jonathan Brown]

Thanks for catching that, James. It looks like Doug Seaborn did this as part of 
Ryerson University’s November BC2020 mapathon event. I wonder if he’s still 
with the university and if he’d be interested in the March 29 event. I’ll reach 
out next week. 

Jonathan

From: James
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 8:15 PM
To: john whelan
Cc: Jonathan Brown; Rob Halko; Brock Baker <brock_ba...@kprdsb.ca>; Talk-CA 
OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

Seems Durham already had a project created for it:
http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/85
I'll archive project 116


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Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

[Jonathan Brown]

Thanks, James. I added one building to project 116 with request for review. We 
may not have time to set up  a wiki to support the specific building tags to 
use for the Durham Region policy challenges (e.g., access to fresh food or 
financial bank machines), but will give it a try. The goal is to “add meaning 
to the geographic objects” (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/about) the 
students will be mapping on March 29 based on their local knowledge. 

Jonathan 

From: James
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 11:02 AM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: john whelan; Matthew Darwin; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap; Rob Halko; Brock Baker 
<brock_ba...@kprdsb.ca>; Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN)
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/116
Copied information from task #91


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Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

[Jonathan Brown]

Excellent. The OSM community’s support is much appreciated. 

Jonathan

From: john whelan
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 2:16 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: Matthew Darwin; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap; Rob Halko; Brock Baker 
<brock_ba...@kprdsb.ca>; Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN)
Subject: RE: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

I think Matthew or James are the people to talk to.  I suspect it might take 
them an hour or so which means there is an excellent chance of it being made 
available before March 29th.

Cheerio John

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Re: [Talk-ca] Geojson for areas covered by mapathon event

[Jonathan Brown]

Rob Halko will know if they have geojson for Durham Region area. I’ll need to 
find out for Niagara and Northumberland. 

Jonathan

From: James
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 2:18 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: john whelan; Rob Halko; Brock Baker <brock_ba...@kprdsb.ca>; Alasia, 
Alessandro (STATCAN); talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

do you have a geojson extent of the area you want to cover?

On Mar 8, 2018 2:06 PM, "Jonathan Brown" <jonab...@gmail.com> wrote:
If we could clone the http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/91 so that it could be 
used to tag information for existing buildings in the regions of Durham, 
Northumberland and Niagara Falls, then that would be great. Can that be done in 
time for March 29? 
Jonathan 
 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

[Jonathan Brown]

do you have a geojson extent of the area you want to cover?

-

Rob Halko can answer that question for Durham Region, the priority area for 
March 29. I’ll need to ask the other regions. 

Jonathan 

 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

[Jonathan Brown]

If we could clone the http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/91 so that it could be 
used to tag information for existing buildings in the regions of Durham, 
Northumberland and Niagara Falls, then that would be great. Can that be done in 
time for March 29? 
Jonathan 

On 8 March 2018 at 10:40, Jonathan Brown <jonab...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, Matthew. We are finalizing the mapping task on a conference call this 
afternoon at 3 pm if you have time to join in. At the Toronto OSM Meetup they 
recommended using one of the HOT Tasking Manager tasks. I looked at this one 
and found the “Project Specific Notes” helpful: 
https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/4234#bottom
 
Could we not set up a similar project using the BC2020i framework so that 
municipalities and regions could use OSM to track local use of buildings for 
food security and other types of sustainable development projects? 
 
Splitting up the work for completion in a short period of time is exactly what 
high school teachers and non-profit agencies in rural communities need. The 
Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs is working on this kind 
of capacity building with rural communities and youth. 
 
Could the OSM Tasking Manager not be used to support those municipalities that 
have limited GIS open data capacity to sustain this type of activity? We want 
to have an OSM training session like the one you describe below in the morning 
(2-5 to 3 hours) and then give teams a task to map where they would be adding 
points of interest based on prior knowledge gathering before the event. The 
prior knowledge would be related to information about their school building 
that ties into information about municipal buildings in the surrounding 
neighbourhoods. 
 
The combined information would allow them to visualize some aspect of local 
land use. Rob will be able to demonstrate how Durham Region uses spatial 
analysis for local planning purposes. In the follow-up event in the fall we 
could bring these schools back for an event that demonstrates how crowdsourcing 
and citizen science works at the local level. 
 
Jonathan 
 
From: Matthew Darwin
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 11:19 PM
To: Jonathan Brown; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer
 
[prune CC list so this gets posted to the list]
Hi Jonathan,
I'm probably missing something, but you don't link training videos from the 
tasking manager.   The tasking manager is about splitting up some pre-defined 
mapping jobs (eg trace outline of building from bing satellite image), into 
small chunks that people can finish in a short amount of time.  So people don't 
work on things other people are already working on.
If people are adding what they already know, then you don't need a tasking 
manager.  People just go ahead and add it, if it is not already there (checking 
if it is already there is important so we don't get duplicate things).  
Presumably beginners are only going to add one thing at a time in ID editor, 
and they're all in the same room, so scope for conflict is small (easily solved 
with everyone announcing what they are doing before starting it).
For your session later this month, it sounds to me like you want someone to 
• introduce the topic of mapping in OSM
• introduce the ID editor
• go through some samples of things to be added
• then everybody get on their laptop and start trying to edit things, with the 
leader checking what is going on
(this is how my introductory session went last April when I joined a meetup 
group in Ottawa)
The task manager is not needed in this scenario.
But please correct me if I totally missed your point.
On 2018-03-07 08:55 AM, Jonathan Brown wrote:
We want to run the mapathon by setting up a task in the Tasking Manager with 
links to the OSMLearning video tutorials and use cases for the instruction 
section. We want to make the task as simple as possible (e.g., adding points of 
interest based on participants’ local knowledge augmented with information from 
social services and NGOs who will be participating). 
 
The goal is to have the participants apply OSM morning training to a problem 
solving task in the afternoon, similar to what Sterling Quinn did for the 
Philly Fresh Food Mapathon: 
http://2017.phillytechweek.com/events/philly_mapathon
 
We would need to add tasks to the OSM Tasking Manager that encompass the school 
boards and schools within the geography to be mapped - Durham Region, Niagara 
Region, Northumberland County, and Greater Peterborough area. For March 29 the 
priority is for Durham Region and Northumberland County. 
 
We are looking for a train-the-trainer model for 8-10 facilitators (teachers, 
senior secondary and postsecondary students) that can be repurposed for other 
mapathon events this spring and fall.
 
There will be a follow-up event in the early fall. We are exploring ways to 
build this type of mapathon event into the workflows of the educational and 

Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

[Jonathan Brown]

Thanks, Matthew. We are finalizing the mapping task on a conference call this 
afternoon at 3 pm if you have time to join in. At the Toronto OSM Meetup they 
recommended using one of the HOT Tasking Manager tasks. I looked at this one 
and found the “Project Specific Notes” helpful: 
https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/4234#bottom

Could we not set up a similar project using the BC2020i framework so that 
municipalities and regions could use OSM to track local use of buildings for 
food security and other types of sustainable development projects? 

Splitting up the work for completion in a short period of time is exactly what 
high school teachers and non-profit agencies in rural communities need. The 
Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs is working on this kind 
of capacity building with rural communities and youth. 

Could the OSM Tasking Manager not be used to support those municipalities that 
have limited GIS open data capacity to sustain this type of activity? We want 
to have an OSM training session like the one you describe below in the morning 
(2-5 to 3 hours) and then give teams a task to map where they would be adding 
points of interest based on prior knowledge gathering before the event. The 
prior knowledge would be related to information about their school building 
that ties into information about municipal buildings in the surrounding 
neighbourhoods. 

The combined information would allow them to visualize some aspect of local 
land use. Rob will be able to demonstrate how Durham Region uses spatial 
analysis for local planning purposes. In the follow-up event in the fall we 
could bring these schools back for an event that demonstrates how crowdsourcing 
and citizen science works at the local level. 

Jonathan 

From: Matthew Darwin
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 11:19 PM
To: Jonathan Brown; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Emergency Request for Tasking Manager Trainer

[prune CC list so this gets posted to the list]
Hi Jonathan,
I'm probably missing something, but you don't link training videos from the 
tasking manager.   The tasking manager is about splitting up some pre-defined 
mapping jobs (eg trace outline of building from bing satellite image), into 
small chunks that people can finish in a short amount of time.  So people don't 
work on things other people are already working on.
If people are adding what they already know, then you don't need a tasking 
manager.  People just go ahead and add it, if it is not already there (checking 
if it is already there is important so we don't get duplicate things).  
Presumably beginners are only going to add one thing at a time in ID editor, 
and they're all in the same room, so scope for conflict is small (easily solved 
with everyone announcing what they are doing before starting it).
For your session later this month, it sounds to me like you want someone to 
• introduce the topic of mapping in OSM
• introduce the ID editor
• go through some samples of things to be added
• then everybody get on their laptop and start trying to edit things, with the 
leader checking what is going on
(this is how my introductory session went last April when I joined a meetup 
group in Ottawa)
The task manager is not needed in this scenario.
But please correct me if I totally missed your point.
On 2018-03-07 08:55 AM, Jonathan Brown wrote:
We want to run the mapathon by setting up a task in the Tasking Manager with 
links to the OSMLearning video tutorials and use cases for the instruction 
section. We want to make the task as simple as possible (e.g., adding points of 
interest based on participants’ local knowledge augmented with information from 
social services and NGOs who will be participating). 
 
The goal is to have the participants apply OSM morning training to a problem 
solving task in the afternoon, similar to what Sterling Quinn did for the 
Philly Fresh Food Mapathon: 
http://2017.phillytechweek.com/events/philly_mapathon
 
We would need to add tasks to the OSM Tasking Manager that encompass the school 
boards and schools within the geography to be mapped - Durham Region, Niagara 
Region, Northumberland County, and Greater Peterborough area. For March 29 the 
priority is for Durham Region and Northumberland County. 
 
We are looking for a train-the-trainer model for 8-10 facilitators (teachers, 
senior secondary and postsecondary students) that can be repurposed for other 
mapathon events this spring and fall.
 
There will be a follow-up event in the early fall. We are exploring ways to 
build this type of mapathon event into the workflows of the educational and 
local planning structures and processes at the municipal and regional level. 
Alessandro and his colleagues at the TB Open Data branch are well aware of what 
we are trying to do. 
 
Jonathan 
 
From: Matthew Darwin
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 9:06 PM
To: Jonathan Brown; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Cc: Brock Baker <brock_ba...@kprdsb.ca>
Subje

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i, Brandon Open Data and Treasury Board Open Data License

[Jonathan Brown]

Perhaps the Open Government Partnership folks should consider posting a wiki on 
the common open data license that they are promoting. 


From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2018 8:41 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 121, Issue 9

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Today's Topics:

   1. Brandon licensing (john whelan)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 08:40:35 -0500
From: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
To: keith hartley <keith.a.hart...@gmail.com>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [Talk-ca] Brandon licensing
Message-ID:
<caj-ex1gso6kx0qgfbr15jxykjnrgewux0l-uswsfsx+vbk8...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> This brings me to the conclusion after all these discussions something
similar to what SteveA-2009 mentioned. Instead of having OSM conform to
these licenses, would be be able to get the governing bodies to conform to
OSM? In many cases, I'm working with my colleges in the GIS community to
borrow data,  if we could give them a "guideline to a OSM request" document
or something we might be able to leverage a ton of data we wouldn't already
have. I think this is one of the main motivators behind building 2020. That
a lot of this data is accessable-ish, opening it would only help add better
data to OSM. (keeping in mind quality, applicability ect)

It's better if you get them to use the Treasury Board Open Data licence.
TB has a kit for municipalities and I understand the licence is included.
The advantage is other organisations can use the open data.  If you use
something OSM specific then someone lese might run into the same problem.

Cheerio John

On 2 March 2018 at 23:53, keith hartley <keith.a.hart...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks everyone for your info!
>
> I'm not the biggest fan of mail newsgroups cause responding in a
> comprehensive way is hard if you're working for a few days.
>
> Scruff - thanks for the insight on the license, would explicit permission
> from them for this project work? or does the license null it? It's supposed
> to be based off the national open data license but is highly modified.
>
> Jonathan good note! I think if we tag different areas of the city - we can
> attribute things more effectively.
>
> Also - I was thinking of adding info to the already built buildings using
> the City of Brandons info, I wasn't sure of the data use in this case.
> Based on what Scruff said, don't use at all!
>
> Street complete is a great app! I Was looking at using something like that
> or paper! I didn't have the best of luck with Vespucci.
>
> This brings me to the conclusion after all these discussions something
> similar to what SteveA-2009 mentioned. Instead of having OSM conform to
> these licenses, would be be able to get the governing bodies to conform to
> OSM? In many cases, I'm working with my colleges in the GIS community to
> borrow data,  if we could give them a "guideline to a OSM request" document
> or something we might be able to leverage a ton of data we wouldn't already
> have. I think this is one of the main motivators behind building 2020. That
> a lot of this data is accessable-ish, opening it would only help add better
> data to OSM. (keeping in mind quality, applicability ect)
>
>
> I'll add more tomorrow.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 9:45 AM, <talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
>> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> talk-ca-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: Manitoba buildings, addresses and high school work
>>   (Stewart C. Russell)
>>2. Re: BC2020i Mapathon Event (Jonathan Brown)
>

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i Mapathon Event

[Jonathan Brown]

These tips are much appreciated. My apologies for the misinformation about your 
involvement with the folks at the Taskar Centre. We have the call out for local 
OSM Task Manager volunteers and are hoping to recruit them asap. Fleming 
College has an excellent GIS program as does Trent University. We are also 
hoping for support from the Toronto OSM folks. 

Jonathan 
From: Clifford Snow
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 11:52 AM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: James; Rob Halko; Brock Baker <brock_ba...@kprdsb.ca>; 
sarah.r...@durham.ca; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i Mapathon Event


 
one impotant take away from past experiences is to tell them not to map the 
same element twice. For example, someone else maps it first, dont add it on top 
as well(duplicate item mapping)

Using a Tasking Manager solve most of the duplicate editing issues. The TM 
breaks the the area into grids or a polygon shape you provide. Each mapper 
checks out a section which is then locked to prevent others from editing at the 
same time. You do need to remind people that the lock expires after 2 hours. 
All they need to do is exit from the task then reselect it to restart the timer.

Clifford 




-- 
@osm_seattle
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i Mapathon Event

[Jonathan Brown]

Got it. Thanks, James. On another note, we are still looking for 8-10 
facilitators for our March 29 mapathon in Durham Region. I approached the 
Toronto OSM and will follow-up with them at their next Meetup on Monday. I also 
let the Peterborough chapter of GoGeomatics. The challenge is that the colleges 
had a lengthy strike in the fall and have no time to participate in 
extra-curricular activities this year. 

Jonathan 

From: James
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 5:36 AM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap; Rob Halko; Sterling Quinn
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i Mapathon Event

one impotant take away from past experiences is to tell them not to map the 
same element twice. For example, someone else maps it first, dont add it on top 
as well(duplicate item mapping)

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i Mapathon Event

[Jonathan Brown]

Rob Halkon, GIS Supervisor at the Durham Region, has approval to host an 
all-day mapathon event on March 29. The region has kindly offered to provide 
the venue with food. I attended the Toronto OSM Meetup last week and they 
suggested someone by the name of Richard might be able to help with the 
training, We are meeting on Friday Feb 23 from 1 pm to 4 pm to create a “flight 
plan” for the mapathon. This event will be followed up with a second event in 
late September or early October prior to the Oct 22 Municipal Elections in 
Ontario. We want to connect it to mapping trees in a narrowly defined boundary 
and connect it to the theme of sustainable development goals and climate 
change. We also want to use the BC2020i framework and mobile app for this 
event. Your feedback is welcome.  

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 12:48 PM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 120, Issue 32

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Today's Topics:

   1. Cleanup of addr:country, addr:province, addr:state
  (Matthew Darwin)
   2. Re: Formatting of Municipality Names (Matthew Darwin)
   3. Re: Formatting of Municipality Names (James)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 12:40:15 -0500
From: Matthew Darwin 
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: [Talk-ca] Cleanup of addr:country, addr:province, addr:state
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Hi all,

During the discussion of cleaning up municipality names in Canada, it 
was suggested that the addr:city could be removed entirely if the 
appropriate boundaries are defined.   I would hazard to guess (and 
will endeavour to investigate) that the addr:city and the boundaries 
do not always align in Canada (there are ~11300 administrative 
boundaries of some type and there are ~7000 unique addr:city tags)... 
so this will be a much more long term effort.

However, the provincial/territorial boundaries are defined, so 
removing the addr:country, addr:provice and addr:state tags might be a 
more reasonable at this time.  (addr:country is used ~94% less than 
addr:street)

Tags, by number of occurrences:

  167902 addr:country

   33252 addr:state

  179741 addr:province

2950115 addr:city

2942159 addr:street

2934341 addr:housenumber


-- 
Matthew Darwin
matt...@mdarwin.ca
http://www.mdarwin.ca

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--

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 12:41:49 -0500
From: Matthew Darwin 
To: talk-ca 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Formatting of Municipality Names
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

To start the cleanup process, the following *Ontario* cities are being 
changed (remove "City of" or "City Of").   Once that is done, I'll 
come back with the next batch to process...

The idea to remove the city name in its entirety will require careful 
consideration to ensure the necessary boundary relations are in place 
and of course more discussion to see if people are comfortable to 
proceed on that kind of activity.

  110707 City of Toronto
   45716 City of Hamilton
   27234 City of London
   25393 City of Brampton
   17251 City of Vaughan
   16929 City of St. Catharines
   16592 City of Kawartha Lakes
   16087 City of Thunder Bay
   14787 City of Niagara Falls
   13966 City of Kingston
   12085 City of Oshawa
   11321 City of Barrie
   10981 City of Burlington
   10347 City of Guelph
    9666 City of Brantford
    9384 City of Sarnia
    9102 City of Windsor
    9044 City Of Sault Ste. Marie
    8263 City of Peterborough
    7819 City of Quinte West
    7593 City of Welland
    6753 City of Pickering
    6608 City of Greater Sudbury
    6375 City Of Greater Sudbury
    6239 City of Belleville
    6165 City of Prince Edward County
    5696 City of Cornwall
    5269 City Of Timmins
    4877 City of Port Colborne
    4208 City of Woodstock
    3971 City of Thorold
    3692 City of St. Thomas
    3603 City of Cambridge
    3529 City of Orillia
    3355 City of Brockville
    3098 City of Owen Sound
    2733 City of Clarence-Rockland
    2377 City Of Pembroke
  

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 120, Issue 53

[Jonathan Brown]

Hi, Keith. I’m in the same predicament. The OSM community tell me that it may 
be possible, but not in the short run. We are using the BC2020i framework for 
our March 29 event that Durham Region’s Open Data folks are hosting. One idea 
is to have the students add trees to OSM. For accessibility, you should see 
what Clifford Snow is doing with postsecondary students from the the Taskar 
Centre. 

Jonathan 

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 1:07 PM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 120, Issue 53

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Manitoba buildings, addresses and high school work (keith hartley)
   2. Re: Manitoba buildings, addresses and high school work
  (john whelan)
   3. Re: Manitoba buildings, addresses and high school work (James)
   4. Re: Manitoba buildings, addresses and high school work
  (keith hartley)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 09:31:44 -0600
From: keith hartley 
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: [Talk-ca] Manitoba buildings, addresses and high school work
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Hi OSM'ers

I am working on adding buildings to OSM in Manitoba and have a few
questions. I was just offered an updated building footprint and address
shape file from the City of Brandon, and agreement that it can be used in
OSM. I understand that the license needs to be compliant with the OSMs of
course, and will email the licensing group. The City uses a open data
license similar to Ottawa's (can be seen here http://opengov.brandon.ca/
terms.aspx) I can get  written consent in an email if need be as well.
Currently the buildings are from the Manitoba land initiative website (MLI)
and I can see that the city of Brandon Data is much more accurate (in both
attributes and position) I will review the current data. Is there anything
else I should be doing before I upload this?

The plan is to have high school students look at the map and using walking
maps or equivalent data capture (android app) to find what is accessible
for people with mobility issues around their schools. I'll write the
results on a wiki to show our successes. Anyone else have good ideas how to
get students to add to the map? (with teacher oversight of course!)

Cheers,
Keith
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 11:51:34 -0500
From: john whelan 
To: keith hartley 
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Manitoba buildings, addresses and high school
work
Message-ID:

Re: [Talk-ca] Manitoba buildings and data that high school students could add

[Jonathan Brown]

Keith, I have had several conversations within this forum and offline about 
importing municipal building footprints into OSM for a mapathon event with 
students on March 29 in Durham Region. Based on advice from this and other OSM 
community member, we are holding off on importing building footprints for now. 

As for good ideas on how to engage students in adding to the OSM map, we are 
considering having students add trees to school building. The Toronto District 
School Board has a Green School Program and a database with over 40,000 trees 
on 5000 acres across approximately 600 schools. [Note: This was based on 
research from 2009 by an intern graduate student from the U of Toronto Forestry 
Department. It would be interesting to see if they would open this data to 
their students to use as an educational resource. 

Have you connected with Shawn Goulet and Steven Johnson at OSM Learn. They may 
have some good ideas as well. We may use their services to train our 
facilitators for the March 29 event. 

Jonathan  

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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 120, Issue 48

[Jonathan Brown]

I don’t mind trying to contact the school, Fredrick. I have a few contacts with 
the two Ottawa school boards. 

Jonathan Brown

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 7:00 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 120, Issue 48

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Today's Topics:

   1. Issues with an Ottawa school (Frederik Ramm)
   2. Re: Issues with an Ottawa school (John Marshall)
   3. Re: Issues with an Ottawa school (James)
   4. Re: Issues with an Ottawa school (Frederik Ramm)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 19:58:49 +0100
From: Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [Talk-ca] Issues with an Ottawa school
Message-ID: <3719fdd3-d8f0-0c37-cebb-ccd7d4e6e...@remote.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi,

DWG has received a complaint about a fictional village in Africa,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/16.36752/-3.47617

and after investigation it turns out that a total of 120 user accounts
have been created on January 25th, using email addresses that point to
one particular unified school district in Ottawa.

76 of these have made edits, some of which are legitimate tracings of
buildings in Africa, but the majority are "funny" edits like the ones
you see in the link above, in various places in Africa and occasionally
the US. Objects with names like "Get dunked on", "The Ocean of
Awsomeness with Vianey, Sarah, Maddy and Aubrey not Abby", "the abanoned
mushroom railroad", "some fenced in area", "The Monkey Park" - the usual
teenage stuff.

I don't have the time to sort the good from the bad, and given that none
of the pupils/students were active after January 26th, I'll probably
revert the lot.

Would anybody be willing to try and make contact with the school
district in question, and try to find out who is responsible? It is
certainly a good idea to introduce young people to OSM, but apparently
with 120 in one go, teachers/instructors were unable to provide the
necessary guidance for this to become a success. (I have not seen any
attempts of organised cleanup either.)

It would be good if the organisers responsible had a contact into the
Ottawa OSM community so they could ask for support next time they plan
something like this.

(As a side note, most accounts seem to have been set up using real
names, which perhaps also is not best practice for teenage editing,
*especially* if most of the data contributed is actually detrimental to
OSM.)

If someone steps forward, I would furnish them with details in a
personal email so as to avoid publicly tarnishing the reputation of the
school in question ;)

Our aim is not to accuse, but to help them understand the issue, and do
better next time. It would be ideal if whoever steps forward possesses
the diplomacy skills necessary to get that across.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"



--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:06:38 -0500
From: John Marshall <rps...@gmail.com>
To: Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Issues with an Ottawa school
Message-ID:
<cah86ax7kjvfqat47izek4efeqefz_mk+m5lxd75gf2tcxem...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Good day Frederik,

I would.

John Marshall
Ottawa


On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> DWG has received a complaint about a fictional village in Africa,
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/16.36752/-3.47617
>
> and after investigation it turns out that a total of 120 user accounts
> have been created on January 25th, using email addresses that point to
> one particular unified school district in Ottawa.
>
> 76 of these have made edits, some of which are legitimate tracings of
> buildings in Africa, but the majority are "funny" edits like the ones
> you see in the link above, in various places in Africa and occasionally
> the US. Objects with names like "Get dunked on", "The Ocean of
> Awsomeness with Vianey, Sarah, Maddy and Aubrey not Abby", "the abanoned
> mushroom railroad", "some fenced in area&q

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 120, Issue 23

[Jonathan Brown]

I concur. Take it one step further. Show different examples of good, bad and 
ugly building models based on explicit criteria. This will help us “educate” 
those who are keen on participating. Another consideration is accessibility 
strategies for those disabilities. 

Jonathan 

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 7:01 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 120, Issue 23

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools (OSM Volunteer stevea)
   2. Re: BC2020i - Solving the licensing issues (Tracey P. Lauriault)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 16:00:17 -0800
From: OSM Volunteer stevea 
To: talk-ca 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

I'd love to see in OSM (with a nod by STATCAN?) a Canadian "model building" 
(one will do), linked in the wiki.  Richly-tagged and well done, to provide a 
standard to shoot for.  To close a small, tight QA loop, as it were.  "Here is 
what we'd like to see more of."  Start small, document it.  That seems a fairly 
low bar to step over.

Later,
SteveA


--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 20:39:33 -0500
From: "Tracey P. Lauriault" 
To: "Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN)" ,
James McKinney 
Cc: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i - Solving the licensing issues
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

This is great! And it reflects the recommendations provided at the first
consultation meetings with your management at Satistics Canada. I believe
there is merit in talking with the municipalities from whom you are
accessing the data, simply as a courtesy, but also as a way to enlist them
as part of the project, and potentially they may have a better and more up
to date dataset than what they share in their open data. And may even have
other data of use.

OSM resembles ordnance survey as was part of the original raison d'etre
When it started in the UK, but that does not preclude the possibility of
incorporating administrative boundaries such as wards, and less formal
boundaries such as neighbourhoods, and potentially even other cachtment are
boundaries such as school boards, and police districts and so on.

I am including James McKinney in this conversation because he did some work
in compiling quite a few municipal base files when he was the ed for Open
North.

And there most definitely will be variable quality, and ontologies! Vive la
difference!

Nice work and kudos to you and your team.
TRacey


On Wednesday, February 7, 2018, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN) <
alessandro.ala...@canada.ca> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> It is fantastic to see all these exchanges about BC2020i! There are a lot
> of great ideas and improvements being made. I cannot follow up on each
> point, though I wanted to update you regarding one area of specific
> relevance: the attempt to find a solution to the licensing issue for
> building related datasets. I believe this is one area where my team can
> contribute to support the BC2020i.
>
> With my team, I am looking into the feasibility of compiling all available
> municipal open data files into one single file and then releasing this
> single file under one common license, specifically the open data licence of
> the Canadian federal government. This would, hopefully, solve the license
> compatibility issue. We are still exploring this possibility but are
> moderately optimistic.
>
> So far we started with the "easy" task: compiling all the known files – a
> special thanks to those who contributed to the tables on the BC2020i wiki
> page! With that and other OD sources, we compiled an
> "OpenAddressRepository" file of nearly 11 million records (georeferenced)
> and an "OpenBuildingRepository" file of nearly 3.2 million polygons (still
> in progress). Preliminary analysis suggests that the coverage and geocoding
> are very promising. More importantly, given that the files all originate
> from official municipal sources, there should be no reason to doubt the
> quality of the data.
>
> The 

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i OSM Distributed Model and Education

[Jonathan Brown]

Fair enough. It’s jargon from the “innovation, creativity and entreprenship” 
focus in many education sectors these days. Eduspeak, agreed. What I meant to 
say is that the workflow and the technology to support the teaching and 
learning environment for future “citizen scientists” needs to be piloted before 
we can expect students contribute to a well-planned flight plan. I can’t see 
teachers investing instructional time to enable the required training to happen 
unless it is connected to a cross-curricular activity as the Manitoba folks 
point out. 

In Ontario, school boards are licensed to use ArcGIS. This is what many 
municipal and regional GIS staff us. For the non-GIS experts it is not 
user-friendly. I saw this first hand with an outdoor education teacher I was 
observing as he tried to get his GPS data into the program. I also heard from a 
group of teachers I spoke to a professional development session in Toronto 
today that they would love to use GIS tools to teach problem-solving in their 
courses, but not if the technology is too complicated or unreliable to use in 
their classes. I know you’ll have an opinion about that, so fire away. I’m 
trying to figure out what Keith pointed out with his experience in Manitoba.  

So, I concur with the need for OSM project management. My guess is that might 
be the role of the Ministry of Infrastructure under the current SMART cities 
challenge they issued:  
http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/plan/cities-villes-eng.html
Also, the Canadian Ministry of Innovation, Science and Economic Development 
announced $50 million funding to train 1 million K-12 teachers and students on 
how to use digital technology in the classroom. The CanCode federal program 
aims “to equip youth, including traditionally underrepresented groups, with the 
skills and study incentives they need to be prepared for the jobs of today and 
the future.” The funding, however, is going to NGOs because our K-12 education 
sector in Canada is a provincial responsibility. Canada does not have a 
Ministry of Education or a federal department of education like in the US. 

That said, I think from my conversations with this community and phone calls 
with folks at Telenav and within the OSM community (a phone call with Clifford 
was most helpful for me). Telenav’s presentation at SOTM 2017 was also helpful. 
Telenav talked Maproulette.org, a gamified way to parse out small tasks for 
mappers to fix, and Improveosm.org, a big data resource where Telenav has 
collected billions of GPS traces that point our errors in OSM. A heatmap 
highlights the zones of errors that includes information and action items. 
Someone at the conference commented that, “historically OpenStreetMap was 
rather clunky and best for those with more patience than I. Thankfully useful 
apps like MAPS.ME & OSM.And have emerged. These apps use OpenStreetMap as a 
base map, but present it in an aesthetically appealing and more efficient way. 
They also allow you to download regions for offline use, an invaluable feature 
when you’re travelling.”  ,

As an example of a K-12 use case flight plan there is the Lifelong Learning 
Mapping Project, a European Comenius-funded project involving 5 different 
countries in 5 different languages. What was the quality of the data collected 
by those students? Who were the experienced flight crew that provided the 
schools with support? Do they have a flight plan that could be adapted to the 
BC2020 project? 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Life_Long_Learning_Mapping_Project
We have 13 pan-Canadian jurisdictions, so maybe start with some of those 
jurisdictions where OSM capacity already exists and start a wiki flight plan.  

Alessandro pointed us to the Philly Fresh Food Mapper 
https://www.geovista.psu.edu/phillyfood/
This is a good example of harnessing “crowdsourcing” and “citizen science” to 
solve a local problem. Sterling Quinn already shared with us the following in 
an email: “We also held a map-a-thon at a public library in North Philly where 
we got people from the food, tech, and education communities together. That was 
probably the most interesting thing to come out of the project. I also had a 
few discussions with people working with the city to make a similar database, 
but they had some of the usual concerns about using OSM as their main 
repository (e.g., liability, perceived lack of control).”

Jonathan 

From: OSM Volunteer stevea
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2018 4:58 PM
To: Jonathan Brown; talk-ca
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i OSM Distributed Model and Education

On Jan 30, 2018, at 7:49 AM, Jonathan Brown <jonab...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don’t mind reviewing the OSM education wiki for lessons learned and 
> “promising practices” and seeing how it might inform the design of a mapathon 
> event aligned to the K-12 curricula and postsecondary capstone project model. 
> It will be messy, but that’s the nature of the beast. To use the jargon, 
&g

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i OSM Distributed Model and Education

[Jonathan Brown]

I don’t mind reviewing the OSM education wiki for lessons learned and 
“promising practices” and seeing how it might inform the design of a mapathon 
event aligned to the K-12 curricula and postsecondary capstone project model. 
It will be messy, but that’s the nature of the beast. To use the jargon, start 
small, fail fast and apply what you learn to the next event. 

Durham Region is planning on hosting a mapathon event as early as this March. 
I’m working with the GIS Supervisor who also teaches GIS to 2nd year 
environmental science students at Durham College. I also have a teacher who is 
very good at working with students who normally would not participate in these 
kinds of events, but who have street knowledge. 

Jamie Boyd and Moses Iziomon at the Treasury Board’s Open Government branch may 
have some funding to support Alessandro’s group in helping to engage the OSM 
“crowdmappers” and citizen science practitioners. This could align to their 2 
year open government plan 
http://open.canada.ca/en/4plan/creating-canadas-4th-plan-open-government-2018-20.
 They are looking for workshop ideas for early May. 

Does anyone know of OSM expertise that we could tap into for a mapathon event 
in the Durham Region? Thanks. 


Jonathan 

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 11:06 PM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 32

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: using image recognition to create building foot   prints.
  (Matthew Darwin)
   2. Re: using image recognition to create building foot   prints.
  (john whelan)
   3. Re: using image recognition to create building foot   prints.
  (Matthew Darwin)
   4. Re: using image recognition to create building foot   prints.
  (Matthew Darwin)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 21:11:04 -0500
From: Matthew Darwin 
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] using image recognition to create building foot
prints.
Message-ID: <50feb14c-0770-4e78-3363-daec8951a...@mdarwin.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

+1

Unless someone has lots of $$$ to throw at OSM work (which could then 
fund full time coordinators, trainers, lawyers, etc), the only way I 
see to coordinate is to approach it like how OSM in Canada was build 
up to now... distributed model with local groups doing what makes 
sense for their area.   There is, of course, no way to map all 
buildings in Canada by 2020 this way.  Still it is good to set 
aspirational goals...

On 2018-01-29 08:57 PM, Pierre Béland wrote:
>
> Il faut une part de réalisme. Pour bien coordonner, il ne suffit pas 
> de créer une tâche et d'inviter à participer. Nous ne sommes pas une 
> communauté structurée au niveau national.  Je comprends que diverses 
> universités s'intéressent au projet OSM et aimeraient initier leurs 
> étudiants à ce projet. La meilleure solution je pense c'est de se 
> mettre en contact avec la communauté OSM locale et s'assurer de bien 
> encadrer la formation et les premiers jours de participation à OSM.
>
> Les contributeurs sont davantage actifs dans leurs communautés 
> locales ou selon leur divers intérêts liés à leur travail ou loisir. 
> Personne n'est prêt à s'engager à coordonner un tel projet au niveau 
> national.

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--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 21:17:51 -0500
From: john whelan 
To: Matthew Darwin 
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] using image recognition to create building foot
prints.
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 and I think I agree with Pierre the best approach would be to do it a step
at a time using experienced local resources.

We do need to engage with high schools and the Universities but it is
difficult with the resources available.  There is some material available
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Education but it would need reviewing
to see if it is relevant to what is required.

We were exceptionally fortunate in Ottawa with the pilot and the 

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020, CanVec and Licensing Issue

[Jonathan Brown]

I’ll raise the issue with the Open Government folks at tomorrow’s meeting. I’m 
slowly beginning to see what lies beneath the tip of the iceberg on the 
licensing issue. 
https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/478/using-canvec-from-natural-resources-canada
 and Scuss’s post on untangling CanVec 
http://glaikit.org/2010/05/23/untangling-canvec/

Jonathan


From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 4:57 PM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 22

Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status (Matthew Darwin)
   2. Re: BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status (john whelan)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:31:16 -0500
From: Matthew Darwin <matt...@mdarwin.ca>
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
Message-ID: <80d1816a-2bca-84a2-39e8-35952d6c5...@mdarwin.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Jonathan,

Please do raise the licensing issue it is a major blocking point 
to have imports proceed.  We cannot have a variant of the same license 
for each city, just changing the city name because the OSM license 
working group thinks these are thus all different and then needing 
another round of review.   We need one (or very small number of) 
licenses every municipality/region/province can use.

One way to solve this is to have everymunicipality/region/province 
contribute to one master data set and then make that dataset available 
to OSM.  Eg add all the buildings into CanVec.  CanVec is already 
approved. :-)


Matthew Darwin
matt...@mdarwin.ca
http://www.mdarwin.ca

On 2018-01-28 02:42 PM, Jonathan Brown wrote:
>
> Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in 
> Ontario. It’s their job to connect to and support the data stewards 
> within government who are releasing data through the Open Data 
> Portal. The federal open government folks are holding a meeting in 
> Toronto this Monday where the provincial and city folks are likely 
> to be in attendance. I can raise this licensing issue and how this 
> is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen science, something that 
> they are keen on embracing. It would be good to show them a working 
> example. Has the BC2020i OSM data been integrated into the Ottawa 
> Open Data Portal?
>
> Jonathan
>
> *From: *john whelan <mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
> *To: *Jonathan Brown <mailto:jonab...@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
>
> If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from 
> Bing please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find 
> new mappers using iD are not very accurate.
>
> If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it 
> must be available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  
> Part of the problem is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
>
> The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with 
> their Open Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came 
> up with version 2.0.  Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the 
> new license and it took about five years to get it sorted out from 
> start to finish.
>
> I was involved in the original import and was under the impression 
> that since we were importing CANVEC data and that was available 
> under the 2.0 license that the municipal equivalent license was 
> acceptable. Some Stats Canada addresses had been imported from the 
> TB open data portal in Toronto and they were under the same impression.
>
> It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the 
> 2.0 license in OSM's eyes.
>
> The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG 
> for their opinion.  Their opinion was they were acceptable.  However 
> they wished to view any other Open Data licenses in Canada before 
> giving their benediction.
>
> Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing 
> you must remove our data.  This is an example on something that OSM 
> would find unacceptable.
>
>

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

[Jonathan Brown]

Thanks. It’s good to here that the TB (Treasury Board?) are starting to provide 
support in that way of a kit for municipalities. It would be good to work with 
the municipal leaders in building capacity with those municipalities with 
limited capacity and resources to support open data initiatives (see Open 
Cities Index Results for 2017 
https://publicsectordigest.com/open-cities-index-results-2017 published by the 
PSD. Highlights from the report:
• 45 percent of municipalities surveyed have an open data committee in place
• Of those respondents with an open data committee, very few are having regular 
meetings
• The vast majority of respondents are either considering an open data policy 
(33 percent), are in the process of implementing one (7 percent), or already 
have an established policy (45 percent)
• While few municipal respondents have an open data strategic plan currently in 
place, more than half are considering a plan or are currently implementing one
• 69 percent of surveyed municipalities report having internal educational 
resources in place for their open data program, while 51 percent report having 
external resources available for the community

I live in Cobourg in Northumberland County south of Peterborough. We do not 
have an Open Data initiative at either the municipal or regional level. Cobourg 
received a $450K grant for an incubation hub called Venture 13, and 
Peterborough is in the process of educating internal staff on their new open 
data policy. We are hoping to learn from the leaders in OSM and Open Data 
through hands-on activities like the BC2020i.  

I have been volunteering my time with the Niagara Region folks for the past two 
years to try to figure out a way to get the open data into the K-12 education 
sector. We too have the same need as Clifford and Keith in Manitoba who are 
trying to figure out how to connect local high school and undergraduate 
students to a local problem-solving task using the BC202i framework.

Marina, It would be help if you could connect with the federal TB team so that 
they understand what should go into a kit for municipalities and their 
community partners that want to participate in a BC2020i OSM project. My 
contact over there is Alannah Hilt (see bio at 
go-opendata.ca/speaker/alannah-hilt/). Connie, since Niagara Region in number 9 
on the list of the top 20 Open Data leaders, is there anything you think we 
need to add to support the mapathon event in the Niagara Region? 

Jonathan 

From: john whelan
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 3:17 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

The Ottawa building outlines were identified as a possibility by Tracey at a 
meeting between Stats Can City of Ottawa and a few people from OSM plus a few 
others by phone who had done something similar.

Most of the enriching of OSM from Ottawa's Open Data came through their portal 
such as the GTFS file.  Martin and James have done most of the work integrating 
what they could find.

Once we had the license lined up then I understand the building outline file 
was supplied separately to the Open Data portal but with the same licence.  I 
think James would know if it came on a USB stick or not. 

The Stats Can building project has had a lot of interest from municipalities.  
I think Kingston was very keen.  Its value is the mixture of Open Data and the 
enrichment that comes from the OSM side to give the number of levels etc.

TB are supposed to have an Open data kit for municipalities real soon now and 
that is supposed to include information about the TB 2.0 Open Data Licence that 
Ottawa is using.

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 14:42, Jonathan Brown <jonab...@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario. It’s 
their job to connect to and support the data stewards within government who are 
releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal open government folks 
are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where the provincial and city 
folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise this licensing issue and how 
this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen science, something that they are 
keen on embracing. It would be good to show them a working example. Has the 
BC2020i OSM data been integrated into the Ottawa Open Data Portal?  
 
Jonathan 
 
From: john whelan
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
 
If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing please 
use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers using iD are 
not very accurate.
If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be 
available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the problem 
is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
The Canadian Federal Gove

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

[Jonathan Brown]

Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario. It’s 
their job to connect to and support the data stewards within government who are 
releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal open government folks 
are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where the provincial and city 
folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise this licensing issue and how 
this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen science, something that they are 
keen on embracing. It would be good to show them a working example. Has the 
BC2020i OSM data been integrated into the Ottawa Open Data Portal?  

Jonathan 

From: john whelan
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing please 
use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers using iD are 
not very accurate.
If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be 
available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the problem 
is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with their Open 
Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came up with version 2.0.  
Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the new license and it took about 
five years to get it sorted out from start to finish.
I was involved in the original import and was under the impression that since 
we were importing CANVEC data and that was available under the 2.0 license that 
the municipal equivalent license was acceptable. Some Stats Canada addresses 
had been imported from the TB open data portal in Toronto and they were under 
the same impression.
It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the 2.0 license 
in OSM's eyes.
The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG for their 
opinion.  Their opinion was they were acceptable.  However they wished to view 
any other Open Data licenses in Canada before giving their benediction.  
Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing you must 
remove our data.  This is an example on something that OSM would find 
unacceptable.
Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.
Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown <jonab...@gmail.com> wrote:
If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the 
BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who could be 
trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be a very small 
start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the licensing issue? How do 
datasets released under the open government license not meet the legal 
requirements of the OSM license? 
 
Jonathan 
 
 




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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

[Jonathan Brown]

If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the 
BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who could be 
trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be a very small 
start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the licensing issue? How do 
datasets released under the open government license not meet the legal 
requirements of the OSM license? 

Jonathan 


From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 7:00 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 16

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Today's Topics:

   1. weeklyOSM #392 2018-01-16-2018-01-22 (weeklyteam)
   2. Re: BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
  (OSM Volunteer stevea)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 08:21:47 -0800 (PST)
From: weeklyteam 
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-ca] weeklyOSM #392 2018-01-16-2018-01-22
Message-ID: <5a6ca71b.d4951c0a.8ae59.9...@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 392,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9884/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3

--

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 12:41:23 -0800
From: OSM Volunteer stevea 
To: "Stewart C. Russell" , talk-ca

Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
Message-ID: <1145fd9b-205b-4d3d-a8c8-0b2f5846a...@softworkers.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8

On Jan 26, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
> On 2018-01-26 09:56 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
>> What I did was to "back-populate" the list of "approved" (by whom?  when?  
>> how did these get here?) list of Canadian cities from
>> https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Contributors#Canadian_Municipalities into OSM's 
>> BC2020 wiki.
> 
> These are very old and pre-date the formal import documentation process.
> The Toronto permission e-mail from 2011 or so amounted to not much more
> than “Sure ;-)” [smiley included in original]. I don't think the process
> would pass muster now.

OK, so "correct" is to immediately remove from 
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Contributors#Canadian_Municipalities EVERY SINGLE 
CITY (except Ottawa).  If it was an error to list them then, (that's what I 
read above) it is an error to list them now.  Anyone with an OSM wiki account 
can do this — and now, someone should, preferably someone in Canada with a 
sense of ownership that this process of entering additional Canadian cities 
into Contributors went awry.  This could be a majority of people reading this 
post:  any takers?

> Unfortunately, none of us are lawyers, the OSMF's lawyers are very busy
> and naturally conservative, and slogging through licence work (and
> myriad outdated wiki pages) is no fun for anyone, least of all volunteers.

Some of us are lawyers (I'm not), though any OSM volunteer should strive to "do 
the right things," especially in matters related to "proper licensing."  Proper 
OD licensing is one task which has emerged as an "obstacle" (so documented in 
WikiProject BC2020) from the desire to see continuing project forward momentum.

To go forward, if wiki pages are outdated (and Stewart says above that they 
are), well, please update outdated wiki pages.  You don't have to be a lawyer 
to do that, especially as the data are known to be outdated or wrong.  
"Slogging through license work," partly DOES require being a lawyer (at least 
within OSM's LWG) and for the project to go forward, yes, that is a longer-term 
task to complete.  (I hesitate to say "slog," though it may be one).

I offer to "change from green to red" wiki table status for all cities (except 
Ottawa), although I'd also like to see Contributors be updated (with only 
Ottawa) as I suggest.  Teamwork, anybody?  Simply to keep our project-wide 
communication current?  It's neither difficult nor time-consuming and shares 
present status with "the rest of us."

We may not have brilliant ignition here, but at least the embers are orange and 
warm.  Though, after many 

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 10

[Jonathan Brown]

Thank you for this useful information, John. The Washington DC Georgia Ave 
Youth Ambassador Mapping Project involving 7 university students and 20 high 
school ambassadors from underrepresented groups  
http://teachosm.org/en/cases/georgia-ave/ is a good example of how OSM could 
support youth in gaining 21st Century competencies. 
They started with a good base map, used a form developed by NGOs to collect 
data, spoke to business owners about entrepreneurship and business skills, 
refined an “elevator pitch” to meet 21st century competencies in the curricula, 
and collected info on building facades and structures that business could use 
to apply for Great Streets revitalization grants. 
As part of their summer job as Youth Ambassadors, students mapped around 268 
places. Some of the lessons learned that they posted on their wiki page 
included: 
• Being able to work with an the OSM MappingDC user group who already had a 
volunteer base, survey forms, and a good idea for a project was helpful. [Note: 
This is where cloning or forking an open data in education: what problem do you 
want to solve would be useful for communities that do not have access to these 
civic tech minded user groups. I have to drive over an hour to access these 
kinds of user groups from the rural community I live in here in Ontario]
• the use of Field Papers from the start 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Field_Papers to organize data collection
• more training on iD (e.g., how to add to an existing place, here's how to 
search for the correct tag in iD and the Wiki)
• some formal training on mouse and keyboard skills for some students was 
necessary
• community-based organizations may not have the right computers for the 
students to use. Chromebooks seemed to always crash with every “save” in OSM iD 
Editor. 
• Used 6 computers and divided students into small groups based on area they 
were assigned to map and gave everyone a chance to "drive" for a while so that 
each student got familiar with the system
• HOT Task manager and volunteers mapped all the buildings ahead of time so 
that the students could focus on the businesses 
•  Figuring out what is the best means of communication and having a regular 
check-in
• a small outreach campaign to tell businesses that the students were coming, 
but some didn't want to talk to them. Perhaps some kind of official 
sticker/shirt/hat for the students to wear, to make it more clear that they are 
part of a program
• field trip to Mapbox, a web mapping company, to show them how OpenStreetMap 
and geography is used for work and potential career pathways was well received 
by students. Include some swag for students.
• the 20 youth ambassadors were supported by partners included an NGO mentoring 
organization http://www.momiestlc.org/, professor from 
https://geography.columbian.gwu.edu/ and the MappingDC usergroup that set up 
TeachOSM http://teachosm.org/en/cases/ with great use cases in education. Note: 
Professors Nuala Cowan & Richard Hinton suggested that the “instructional 
module/assignment is applicable to many disciplines and teaching scenarios, and 
the objective of the TeachOSM resource is to open that possibility to these 
other fields, in a comprehensive user friendly way.” The Kathmandu Living Lab 
national housing reconstruction project is a great example of citizen science 
and civic engagement using 21st century mobile apps as is the Mapping the 
Forests of Nepal 
http://www.kathmandulivinglabs.org/events/geography-awareness-week-2c-pokhara-mapathon

Technical Questions:
• How could Overpass Turbo be used to collect data from multiple mapathon 
events and communities from OSM? 
• What’s the difference between the mobile app Alessandro commissioned for 
Building Canada 2020i and PushPin OSM? 
• I wonder if there is a way to create a better quality poster map than the one 
the students posted:  Ideally, these maps could be embedded in municipal and 
regional open data portal GIS maps.
Jonathan

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:25 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 10

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools (john whelan)
   2. Re: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 9 (Jonathan Brown)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 07:41:04 -0500
From: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
T

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 9

[Jonathan Brown]

I concur on the point of needing to tie the mapathon activity into a local 
problem-solving task if it is going to address the expectations of provincial 
and territorial curricula. Keith, I like the idea of accessibility. I think 
Clifford would agree that the accessibility challenge has a direct link to the 
curricula (secondary and postsecondary) through the principles of Universal 
Design for Learning (i.e., what’s necessary for some is good for all – machine 
readable closed captioning formats that support muting while viewing a video in 
a noise-sensitive public space). 

It would be good to identify a number of challenges that could be tied to 
cross-curricular tasks like the one on accessibility. For example, we are also 
looking at climate change and using open source resources like iTree for 
assessing and managing forests and community trees http://www.itreetools.org/ 
to estimate  the value of trees in adapting to climate change. The other one we 
came up with is the inequity of access to free internet and other resources 
needed to support the education and career/life goals of students in urban, 
rural and remote and communities. Here are some other project ideas from 
Development Seed https://www.developmentseed.org/projects/

Lastly, I wonder with how the education sectors are jumping on the coding 
STE[A]M bandwagon there might be ways to incorporate critical thinking into a 
mapathon activity. For example, the Green Schools tree planting initiative may 
increase the gap between inner-city schools with no where to plant trees and 
those in neighbourhoods with the green space to take advantage of these types 
of government-funded programs. For example, using machine learning to scaffold 
the tasks based on skill level 
https://www.developmentseed.org/blog/2017/09/15/power-mapping-with-machine-learning/
 or using DigitalGlobe’s Building Footprint to simplify the task of selecting 
buildings in OSM 
http://explore.digitalglobe.com/rs/782-PEE-248/images/Building_Footprints.pdf. 

Students become immediately invested and are motivated and informed when they 
go to speak to their communities about the value of trees. For example, they 
can extrapolate nice reports from iTreeDesign to back up what they are doing 
with data analysis and data visualization. They can also use these reports to 
construct a persuasive, evidence-based pitch to council about the value over 
the next 99 years of planting a tree in a specific location (e.g. school yard, 
park or home). Not only do they demonstrate the economic value of trees through 
site analysis, they can also demonstrate the aesthetic value of publicly-owned 
and privately-owned trees for the citizen’s and wildlife’s health and wellbeing 
in a neighbourhood. This information can be used to augment a place-based 
forest management strategy.

Keith the OpenSideWalks example could easily be adapted to other challenges and 
applied to school yards and other  public  spaces. Thanks for sharing that. The 
other one that would work is Cycle Travel: http://cycle.travel/

Clifford, can we set up a conference call with the Manitoba group your working 
with to share ideas? Here is one example of how a professor at the University 
of Guelph is working with high school teachers to connect math and GIS to the 
Ontario grade 12 data management course: 
https://mathstat.uoguelph.ca/outreach/opendata

Alessandro has limited resources to work with their developer on a simple 
process for exporting data from OSM to other data analysis environments (e.g., 
through APIs or something like arcgis-osm editor in GitHUB)


Jonathan 

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:00 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 9

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools (Clifford Snow)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 22:16:31 -0800
From: Clifford Snow 
To: keith hartley 
Cc: "Alasia, Alessandro \(STATCAN\)" ,
Steven Hills , talk-ca

Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 8:30 PM, keith hartley