Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I'd use: motor_vehicle=delivery (this seems to be the right tag for the UK's "for loading" rule psv=yes (see note below) disabled=yes (this seems to be the right tag for blue badge) You need a conditional access tag for the time restriction: motor_vehicle:conditional=permit @ (19:00-06:00); delivery @ (19:00-06:00) This overrides the motor_vehicle=delivery tag when the condition is met (between 7pm and 6am) but as it's not just authorised vehicles allowed, I've also restated that delivery is allowed at this time. I've used "permit" as the closest tag I could find for "authorised vehicles". Personally I might be tempted to skip this conditional tag entirely as it doesn't answer the question "who is authorised" and any authorised vehicles hopefully know they are without having to check OpenStreetMap first! Maybe add emergency=yes as well just to indicate that the road is physically large enough to cater for these vehicles. I'm assuming they can ignore all legal restrictions. Note on PSV: The psv=yes tag is equivalent to the combination of bus=yes, taxi=yes and a couple others related to public transport (minibus, on demand / on call public services) Best regards Rob On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 22:51 Andy Mabbett, wrote: > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:55, Rob Nickerson > wrote: > > > If you can explain the restriction again, I'll see what tags I can > suggest. I can try to > > capture any time based rules too. > > Thank you. > > The sign reads: > > * "Pedestrian and cycle zone > * [Image: no motor vehicles] > * "Except [Image: Blue Badge] buses, taxis and for loading at any time" > * "and authorised vehicles 7pm-6am". > > It can be seen here: > > https://goo.gl/maps/GTHTDxVeyugNZeKp7 > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:55, Rob Nickerson wrote: > If you can explain the restriction again, I'll see what tags I can suggest. I can try to > capture any time based rules too. Thank you. The sign reads: * "Pedestrian and cycle zone * [Image: no motor vehicles] * "Except [Image: Blue Badge] buses, taxis and for loading at any time" * "and authorised vehicles 7pm-6am". It can be seen here: https://goo.gl/maps/GTHTDxVeyugNZeKp7 -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I've struggled to follow the details of the restriction but Brian's change is a good improvement. As in, remove the access tag completely (roads without access tag are assumed to be access=yes) and then start locking down for just motor vehicles (with the motor_vehicle tag). If you can explain the restriction again, I'll see what tags I can suggest. I can try to capture any time based rules too. P.s. was trying to link to the diagram. This used to exist on the English language page years ago but doesn't anymore. It's still on the German language page or directly available at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Access_hierarchy_simple2.png#mw-jump-to-license Rob On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 20:39 Andy Mabbett, wrote: > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:44, Rob Nickerson > wrote: > > > > No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general > tags. > > > > So in the example > > > > access=destination > > motor_vehicle=no > > > > The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination > only, and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of > transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles > are not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are > only allowed when going to their destination. > > Thank you. In that case, we still have an issue, because some motor > vehicles are allowed (and pedestrians may traverse these roads for any > purpose). > > I'm not clear how this should be tagged. > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > https://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:44, Rob Nickerson wrote: > > No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general tags. > > So in the example > > access=destination > motor_vehicle=no > > The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination only, > and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of > transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles are > not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are only > allowed when going to their destination. Thank you. In that case, we still have an issue, because some motor vehicles are allowed (and pedestrians may traverse these roads for any purpose). I'm not clear how this should be tagged. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing https://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I've changed it to motor_vehicle=destination as that is the most sense I could make of the wiki. Your link Rob was all in German. On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:45, Rob Nickerson wrote: > No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general tags. > > So in the example > > access=destination > motor_vehicle=no > > The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination > only, and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of > transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles > are not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are > only allowed when going to their destination. > > Simplified Hierarchy diagram: > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:access#/media/File%3AAccess_hierarchy_simple2.png > > Best regards > Rob > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 12:55 Andy Mabbett, > wrote: > >> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 09:33, Brian Prangle wrote: >> > >> > I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and >> New Meeting >> > Street. >> >> Thank you, but I think your edit may have failed to save (or someone >> has since deleted them). I can find no such objects (I can see you >> node in High Street). >> >> > I've used access=destination >> >> I'm still confused, as we now have roads with: >> >>access=destination >>motor_vehicle=no >> >> Is there an implicit priority whereby the former overrides the latter? >> >> -- >> Andy Mabbett >> @pigsonthewing >> https://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >> ___ >> Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list >> Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands >> > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general tags. So in the example access=destination motor_vehicle=no The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination only, and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles are not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are only allowed when going to their destination. Simplified Hierarchy diagram: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:access#/media/File%3AAccess_hierarchy_simple2.png Best regards Rob On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 12:55 Andy Mabbett, wrote: > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 09:33, Brian Prangle wrote: > > > > I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and > New Meeting > > Street. > > Thank you, but I think your edit may have failed to save (or someone > has since deleted them). I can find no such objects (I can see you > node in High Street). > > > I've used access=destination > > I'm still confused, as we now have roads with: > >access=destination >motor_vehicle=no > > Is there an implicit priority whereby the former overrides the latter? > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > https://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 09:33, Brian Prangle wrote: > > I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and New > Meeting > Street. Thank you, but I think your edit may have failed to save (or someone has since deleted them). I can find no such objects (I can see you node in High Street). > I've used access=destination I'm still confused, as we now have roads with: access=destination motor_vehicle=no Is there an implicit priority whereby the former overrides the latter? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing https://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I had a good nose round yesterday and updated the area. The disabled space opposite Boots also has "Taxi" marking on the road so what the status is is anyone's guess. The issue is moot as there is a trench right through most of it so I've amended it to amenity:disused. I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and New Meeting Street. I've also referenced the TRO in a note tag. I've used access=destination as this seems correct from the TRO Regards Brian On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 13:30, Andy Mabbett wrote: > On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 22:09, Ryan Underwood > wrote: > > > The section between Carrs Lane and Dale End is shut to all traffic > except buses and, I imagine, black cabs. > > Vehicles used[*] by Blue Badge holders may also use this section; > indeed, it is their only option once they have traversed Carrs Lane. > > Note that the restriction sign also permits "loading at any time", and > "authorised vehicles 7pm-6am". > > > [*] This includes vehicles which have already dropped off, or are > about to pick up, Blue Badge holders, on the road(s) concerned. > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 22:09, Ryan Underwood wrote: > The section between Carrs Lane and Dale End is shut to all traffic except > buses and, I imagine, black cabs. Vehicles used[*] by Blue Badge holders may also use this section; indeed, it is their only option once they have traversed Carrs Lane. Note that the restriction sign also permits "loading at any time", and "authorised vehicles 7pm-6am". [*] This includes vehicles which have already dropped off, or are about to pick up, Blue Badge holders, on the road(s) concerned. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
Maybe a temporary road closure on Bull Street to be monitored closely as well as marking the High Street as buses, taxi and cycle only for the time being? On Tuesday, March 29, 2022, Ryan Underwood wrote: > I also had a quick ride through here today. > > The section between Carrs Lane and Dale End is shut to all traffic except > buses and, I imagine, black cabs. > > If you come down Dale End via James watt Queensway you can get as far as > Albert Street where you're required to turn left. Carrs Lane is one way > towards High Street, as is High Street on the section between Carrs Lane > and Dale End as there is no right turn into Bull Street due to it being > closed for metro works... > > Bull Street has always been closed for traffic apart from buses. > > > On Tuesday, March 29, 2022, Andy Mabbett > wrote: > >> I was there this morning. There are spaces for Blue Badge holders on High >> Street, but they are currently unusable due to road works (and have been - >> and will be - for some time, by the look of it). I've tweeted a picture, >> here: >> >>https://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/1508829197933948930 >> >> There are alternative (but few) spaces for blue badge holders in Dale >> End, Albert Street and New Meeting Street. >> >> To access the spaces in High Street, exempted (i.e." blue badge") >> vehicles CANNOT enter Moor Street Queensway from The Priory Queensway. They >> must go via Dale End, down (i.e. eastbound along) Albert Street, right onto >> MSQ then right into Carrs Lane. Egress from High Street is via Dale End. >> >> The "Pedestrian and cycle zone - except Blue Badge [and other >> exceptions]" sign on MSQ is still in situ. >> >> How should the permitted route be tagged? >> >> What about tagging the parking spaces? >> >> -- >> Andy Mabbett >> @pigsonthewing >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >> >> >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 14:05, Brian Prangle wrote: >> > >> > Hi Andy >> > >> > Don't recall seeing any BB spaces there but the whole place is a mess >> with the tram roadworks and the data is probably a mess too -I gave up on >> trying to fix it after so many people editing trying to interpret the bus >> gates. When are you going in? Can't guarantee when I'll be in the city next >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 19:50, Andy Mabbett >> wrote: >> >> >> >> I'm planning a trip by car to central Birmingham for a relative who >> >> has restricted mobility, and so has a blue badge. >> >> >> >> Birmingham CIty Council say there are three spaces for BB holders on >> >> the stretch of High Street between Carrs Lane and Dale End, opposite >> >> Boots. >> >> >> >> OSM has that length of road as "motor_vehicle=no"; it has the same on >> >> Carrs Lane; and on the stretch of Moor Street Queensway after Albert >> >> Street, by which one would approach Carrs Lane from the north (Aston >> >> University) end. The southern end of Dale End (which one would have to >> >> use to leave the area; presuming Lower Bull Street is still closed) is >> >> marked "acccess=destination". >> >> >> >> Are these incorrect? >> >> >> >> GSV shows a "Pedestrian and cycle zone - except Blue badge [and other >> >> exceptions]" sign on MSQ, after Albert Street when coming from the >> >> north, but in images dated March 2021; and the same on Carrs Lane, >> >> from September 2020. Are they still there? >> >> >> >> Can Carrs Lane be approached via MSQ from Digbeth? >> >> >> >> I can do a survey during the trip, but this is chicken-and-egg! >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Andy Mabbett >> >> @pigsonthewing >> >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list >> >> Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands >> >> >> >> -- >> Andy Mabbett >> @pigsonthewing >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I also had a quick ride through here today. The section between Carrs Lane and Dale End is shut to all traffic except buses and, I imagine, black cabs. If you come down Dale End via James watt Queensway you can get as far as Albert Street where you're required to turn left. Carrs Lane is one way towards High Street, as is High Street on the section between Carrs Lane and Dale End as there is no right turn into Bull Street due to it being closed for metro works... Bull Street has always been closed for traffic apart from buses. On Tuesday, March 29, 2022, Andy Mabbett wrote: > I was there this morning. There are spaces for Blue Badge holders on High > Street, but they are currently unusable due to road works (and have been - > and will be - for some time, by the look of it). I've tweeted a picture, > here: > >https://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/1508829197933948930 > > There are alternative (but few) spaces for blue badge holders in Dale End, > Albert Street and New Meeting Street. > > To access the spaces in High Street, exempted (i.e." blue badge") vehicles > CANNOT enter Moor Street Queensway from The Priory Queensway. They must go > via Dale End, down (i.e. eastbound along) Albert Street, right onto MSQ > then right into Carrs Lane. Egress from High Street is via Dale End. > > The "Pedestrian and cycle zone - except Blue Badge [and other exceptions]" > sign on MSQ is still in situ. > > How should the permitted route be tagged? > > What about tagging the parking spaces? > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > > > On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 14:05, Brian Prangle wrote: > > > > Hi Andy > > > > Don't recall seeing any BB spaces there but the whole place is a mess > with the tram roadworks and the data is probably a mess too -I gave up on > trying to fix it after so many people editing trying to interpret the bus > gates. When are you going in? Can't guarantee when I'll be in the city next > > > > Regards > > > > Brian > > > > On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 19:50, Andy Mabbett > wrote: > >> > >> I'm planning a trip by car to central Birmingham for a relative who > >> has restricted mobility, and so has a blue badge. > >> > >> Birmingham CIty Council say there are three spaces for BB holders on > >> the stretch of High Street between Carrs Lane and Dale End, opposite > >> Boots. > >> > >> OSM has that length of road as "motor_vehicle=no"; it has the same on > >> Carrs Lane; and on the stretch of Moor Street Queensway after Albert > >> Street, by which one would approach Carrs Lane from the north (Aston > >> University) end. The southern end of Dale End (which one would have to > >> use to leave the area; presuming Lower Bull Street is still closed) is > >> marked "acccess=destination". > >> > >> Are these incorrect? > >> > >> GSV shows a "Pedestrian and cycle zone - except Blue badge [and other > >> exceptions]" sign on MSQ, after Albert Street when coming from the > >> north, but in images dated March 2021; and the same on Carrs Lane, > >> from September 2020. Are they still there? > >> > >> Can Carrs Lane be approached via MSQ from Digbeth? > >> > >> I can do a survey during the trip, but this is chicken-and-egg! > >> > >> -- > >> Andy Mabbett > >> @pigsonthewing > >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > >> > >> ___ > >> Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > >> Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > > > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I was there this morning. There are spaces for Blue Badge holders on High Street, but they are currently unusable due to road works (and have been - and will be - for some time, by the look of it). I've tweeted a picture, here: https://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/1508829197933948930 There are alternative (but few) spaces for blue badge holders in Dale End, Albert Street and New Meeting Street. To access the spaces in High Street, exempted (i.e." blue badge") vehicles CANNOT enter Moor Street Queensway from The Priory Queensway. They must go via Dale End, down (i.e. eastbound along) Albert Street, right onto MSQ then right into Carrs Lane. Egress from High Street is via Dale End. The "Pedestrian and cycle zone - except Blue Badge [and other exceptions]" sign on MSQ is still in situ. How should the permitted route be tagged? What about tagging the parking spaces? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 14:05, Brian Prangle wrote: > > Hi Andy > > Don't recall seeing any BB spaces there but the whole place is a mess with the tram roadworks and the data is probably a mess too -I gave up on trying to fix it after so many people editing trying to interpret the bus gates. When are you going in? Can't guarantee when I'll be in the city next > > Regards > > Brian > > On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 19:50, Andy Mabbett wrote: >> >> I'm planning a trip by car to central Birmingham for a relative who >> has restricted mobility, and so has a blue badge. >> >> Birmingham CIty Council say there are three spaces for BB holders on >> the stretch of High Street between Carrs Lane and Dale End, opposite >> Boots. >> >> OSM has that length of road as "motor_vehicle=no"; it has the same on >> Carrs Lane; and on the stretch of Moor Street Queensway after Albert >> Street, by which one would approach Carrs Lane from the north (Aston >> University) end. The southern end of Dale End (which one would have to >> use to leave the area; presuming Lower Bull Street is still closed) is >> marked "acccess=destination". >> >> Are these incorrect? >> >> GSV shows a "Pedestrian and cycle zone - except Blue badge [and other >> exceptions]" sign on MSQ, after Albert Street when coming from the >> north, but in images dated March 2021; and the same on Carrs Lane, >> from September 2020. Are they still there? >> >> Can Carrs Lane be approached via MSQ from Digbeth? >> >> I can do a survey during the trip, but this is chicken-and-egg! >> >> -- >> Andy Mabbett >> @pigsonthewing >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >> ___ >> Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list >> Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
Hi Andy Don't recall seeing any BB spaces there but the whole place is a mess with the tram roadworks and the data is probably a mess too -I gave up on trying to fix it after so many people editing trying to interpret the bus gates. When are you going in? Can't guarantee when I'll be in the city next Regards Brian On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 19:50, Andy Mabbett wrote: > I'm planning a trip by car to central Birmingham for a relative who > has restricted mobility, and so has a blue badge. > > Birmingham CIty Council say there are three spaces for BB holders on > the stretch of High Street between Carrs Lane and Dale End, opposite > Boots. > > OSM has that length of road as "motor_vehicle=no"; it has the same on > Carrs Lane; and on the stretch of Moor Street Queensway after Albert > Street, by which one would approach Carrs Lane from the north (Aston > University) end. The southern end of Dale End (which one would have to > use to leave the area; presuming Lower Bull Street is still closed) is > marked "acccess=destination". > > Are these incorrect? > > GSV shows a "Pedestrian and cycle zone - except Blue badge [and other > exceptions]" sign on MSQ, after Albert Street when coming from the > north, but in images dated March 2021; and the same on Carrs Lane, > from September 2020. Are they still there? > > Can Carrs Lane be approached via MSQ from Digbeth? > > I can do a survey during the trip, but this is chicken-and-egg! > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
