Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
From: Pavel Pisa [mailto:ppisa4li...@pikron.com] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 3:01 AM To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data I (for myself strongly demand) that my former and future change sets can be exported from OSM under CC-BY-SA but I have never got any better reply than do not fear, there would be no problems (with Wikipedia, exports, etc.) or unfair CT or license change. You can build changesets going back to Nov 2009 from the hourly diffs with make_changeset[1]. These would be CC BY-SA 2.0 and unredacted. I intend to make it easier to use make_changeset to build multiple changesets at once, but you could do it now with a simple shell script to call it for each changeset. If you are actually interested in the generation of changesets from diffs, you can follow the project on github. You can get a list of all your changesets from the changeset dump files either with grep, or a more sophisticated method would be ChangesetMD[2] For current changesets you could download them and grant someone additional rights, the problem is that you could only grant rights for your portion of the .osc file and an .osc file contains information from other contributors. [1]: https://github.com/pnorman/make_changeset [2]: https://github.com/ToeBee/ChangesetMD ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:06 PM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: I'm not sure I understand what you mean by convince people to add the odbl clause to people providing data. I mean I asked people to give us the data under cc-by-sa, and now i would have to go back and ask for the odbl database rights, that might be something I could do, at least I can understand it. that is different than to ask for the CT which is my eyes basically a copyright assignment to the osmf, I cannot understand that or explain it. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: that is different than to ask for the CT which is my eyes basically a copyright assignment to the osmf, I cannot understand that or explain And to add in one more point, I dont want to have to go back again and again to donors asking for more and more rights, we need to nail this down once and for all. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: This is a good reason to have contributor terms. the contributor terms introduce more problems, like the fact that it prevents anyone from importing any derived works. lets say i download the new cc-by-sa+odbl database make changes and publish them, then you want to import them back, you cannot because I did not agree to the terms. so the sharealike just fails when you introduce cts with a copyright assignment, in my opinion, or am I missing something? Basically the CTs prevent any other compatible OSM servers to share data with osm, it creates an island of data with no way to share with anyone except via usage. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Mistake in French translation of the CT
On 20/09/2012 16:32, Pieren wrote: Hi legal-list, I would like to point out an error in your French translation of the CT: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms/FR compared to its original (http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms). Section 3. says CC-BY-SA 2.0 ; ou toute autre licence libre et ouverte de même type (comme, par exemple, http://www.opendefinition.org/okd/) qui pourra être ponctuellement choisie par une majorité de 2/3 des contributeurs actifs parmi les membres d’OSMF. where the English version says : CC-BY-SA 2.0; or such other free and open licence (for example, http://www.opendefinition.org/okd/) as may from time to time be chosen by a vote of the OSMF membership and approved by at least a 2/3 majority vote of active contributors. The French version says that a 2/3 majority vote of active contributors within the OSMF members is required (parmi les membres d’OSMF.) which makes a big difference. Could someone fix it, please ? regards Pieren Thanks for pointing that out Pieren. I'll put it on the LWG TODO list to make sure it gets done. None of us speak good French though, if anyone would like to provide an accurate translation, I would be grateful. We can double check it with our original legal translator but I don't think that is imperative as the intent is clear. Mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Mistake in French translation of the CT
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: None of us speak good French though, if anyone would like to provide an accurate translation, I would be grateful. I would suggest: par une majorité de 2/3 des contributeurs actifs. instead of the current: par une majorité de 2/3 des contributeurs actifs parmi les membres d’OSMF. Pieren ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On 20/09/2012 07:32, Mike Dupont wrote: Hi there, I have a question about imports and the ODBl, I see that some sources have decided to dual license the data http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue But how can some third parties data be compatible when the CT says it can change any time, surly they might be compatible with the current instance of the license, but how can they be compatible with future versions of the license when they are no known? How can a contributor import any data and keep the data open to license change? How can you keep any imports at all from people who have not agreed to the CT directly? thanks mike This one has been covered pretty exhaustively previously. To recap for all interested: () The CTs where written carefully to say, If you contribute Contents, You are indicating that, as far as You know, You have the right to authorize OSMF to use and distribute those Contents under our current licence terms. current license terms, so ODbL 1.0. () The future is the future, so cannot be known. () Should the license terms change in the future, there is a possibility that imported data may become incompatible. Therefore the original licensor needs be contacted for approval. Given the general trend to more open data, after what we are all about, that approval may well be given. () Note also that, by design, a duty to provide first level attribution is placed on the OSMF. This survives any potential license change and is general the most important concern of government organisations. () The is always the possibility that data may need to be removed and that is one of the minuses of imports. That is why it is important to always understand third-party licenses and to get general consent of any potentially affected, usually national or regional level, OSM mapping community before importing. There is a healthy debate indirectly about this going on in the general talk list. Mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On 20/09/2012 09:13, Stephan Knauss wrote: On 20.09.2012 07:32, Mike Dupont wrote: How can a contributor import any data and keep the data open to license change? How can you keep any imports at all from people who have not agreed to the CT directly? I agree with you in this point. If we import donated data, it must be stated that OpenStreetmap can publish the data under ODbL or any other license as specified in the CT. Could we create a special version of the Contributor Terms for data donations? So they could sign it. We could mail it to the OSMF to keep the records. We certainly envisioned that possibility when we designed the contributor terms, though so far it has not proved necessary. Instead, OSMF can enter into an MOU. We've done that with the South African spatial directorate for example and there are discussions going on in Finland. I believe that in the case of AND Dutch data, we've agreed that we will notify them of any potential license change so thatany ramifications can be discussed. Henk Hoff may be able to give clearer information on that. If you have any particular case, the LWG will be happy to work with you on it. Mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: () The CTs where written carefully to say, If you contribute Contents, You are indicating that, as far as You know, You have the right to authorize OSMF to use and distribute those Contents under our current licence terms. current license terms, so ODbL 1.0. so that means that you can reimport the derived works back under odbl from a osm deriviate during the time that it has the same license? and it also means that if I publish data under the cc-by-sa+odbl that it can be used in osm? if so, that would be at least a good basic working agreement with any other projects. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
Mike Dupont writes: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: This is a good reason to have contributor terms. the contributor terms introduce more problems, like the fact that it prevents anyone from importing any derived works. lets say i download the new cc-by-sa+odbl database make changes and publish them, then you want to import them back, you cannot because I did not agree to the terms. That's the price you have to pay for your peace of mind to be sure to have clean data in your database with the current license and any future. Apache Foundation has the same problem. They can only bring back data with a signed contributor paper. so the sharealike just fails when you introduce cts with a copyright assignment, in my opinion, or am I missing something? Sharealike is for people who use OSM data. It prevents from 3rd party taking the data and turn it into proprietary stuff. Basically the CTs prevent any other compatible OSM servers to share data with osm, it creates an island of data with no way to share with anyone except via usage. From OSM to 3rd party is fine, the way back is IMHO not possible with the current contributor terms. Problems would start once we change the license again. So modifying the CTs to exclude the or any other license clause might improve the situation. But we could never upgrade the license. Also sounds like a bad idea given the experience gained with the switch to ODbL. We do not want to have a redaction bot 3.0. OSM contributors must grant OSMF all rights to use and redistribute the data, might be called in German uneingeschränktes Nutzungsrecht ~ nonexclusive, unlimited right of use. The current terms use some different words but it sounds exactly like this. I see no point where you are required to give away your copyright. In German law this is not possible at all and OSMF explicitly states non-exclusive. So you keep all the rights of your data. You can't withdraw your permission in the future if you dislike the OSMF way. This protects the future of the project but it costs you some interoperability. Only original copyright holder can pass the needed rights to OSMF and thus only these can contribute. It sounds like a good way to prevent from white-washing tainted data by passing through a 3rd party. If an import can't give the usage rights I think we should not import this data. Stephan ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On Sep 20, 2012, at 3:13 AM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: On 20.09.2012 07:32, Mike Dupont wrote: How can a contributor import any data and keep the data open to license change? How can you keep any imports at all from people who have not agreed to the CT directly? I agree with you in this point. If we import donated data, it must be stated that OpenStreetmap can publish the data under ODbL or any other license as specified in the CT. Could we create a special version of the Contributor Terms for data donations? So they could sign it. We could mail it to the OSMF to keep the records. I think that could be useful, especially if hosted on osmfoundation.org and with an attached list of who has signed. When trying to work with potential data owners I usually struggle to point to a clear procedure on how data is being passed on to OSM and I struggle with coming up with good examples of other institutions who have opened data to OSM with an explicit permission. I'd prefer something very short referring to the CT, essentially saying X hereby grants express permission to contribute X data under the CT to OSM. It is quite common to ask for contributor terms. For big imports a paper contract might be better than a click here to accept contract. See what others do, for example apache foundation: http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt Stephan ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova
Bekim, I have been working on understanding the new license even today. it is cc-by-sa + database rights (odbl) + the right for osm to change the licence at will in the future. basically you need to grant the osm the rights to use the data, Michael can give you more info about this, thanks, mike On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Gent's, Some days ago I noticed that all those detailed roads that were on OSM in Kosova were removed. Does anyone have any information, like when? why? were removed. I am about to contact OSM and any assistance and additional information is welcome! Best, Bekim -- about.me/bekim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups GIS Kosova group. To post to this group, send email to gis-kos...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to gis-kosova+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gis-kosova?hl=en. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova
I dont understand that myself, it seems a bit fuzzy to me but this is the right mailing list and I hope you will get some feedback, thanks mike On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Ok but I don't know how to go about and do that! That's my problem. Where is the starting point? I am ready to approve, sign, confirm anything required! Best, Bekim On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Bekim, I have been working on understanding the new license even today. it is cc-by-sa + database rights (odbl) + the right for osm to change the licence at will in the future. basically you need to grant the osm the rights to use the data, Michael can give you more info about this, thanks, mike On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Gent's, Some days ago I noticed that all those detailed roads that were on OSM in Kosova were removed. Does anyone have any information, like when? why? were removed. I am about to contact OSM and any assistance and additional information is welcome! Best, Bekim -- about.me/bekim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups GIS Kosova group. To post to this group, send email to gis-kos...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to gis-kosova+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gis-kosova?hl=en. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 -- about.me/bekim -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
that sounds more like my conclusion, it is the end of the road for share alike and sharing for osm. basically it is turning into a dead end road. well guys please help bekim, i have sent him to you, mike On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Mike, I think we should come to a clearer recommendation, specifically with regards to share-alike data. The highly infectuous character of share alike licenses severely restricts OSM's leeway of adjusting its license and we shouldn't paint ourselves into a corner this way. Here are the simple rules I do recommend currently when talking to people and that I would love OSM to adopt officially. Contribute only data that is: - Yours - Is public domain or merely requires attribution - You have an explicit permission from owner for contribution to OSM for BTW, I actually think there are only very few potential datasets that are in question here. I have doubts whether ODbL is actually compatible given OSMF's option to change the license to another open license in the future, and CC-BY-SA is clearly not compatible as it does not distinguish between derived and produced works. On Sep 20, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: On 20/09/2012 07:32, Mike Dupont wrote: Hi there, I have a question about imports and the ODBl, I see that some sources have decided to dual license the data http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue But how can some third parties data be compatible when the CT says it can change any time, surly they might be compatible with the current instance of the license, but how can they be compatible with future versions of the license when they are no known? How can a contributor import any data and keep the data open to license change? How can you keep any imports at all from people who have not agreed to the CT directly? thanks mike This one has been covered pretty exhaustively previously. To recap for all interested: () The CTs where written carefully to say, If you contribute Contents, You are indicating that, as far as You know, You have the right to authorize OSMF to use and distribute those Contents under our current licence terms. current license terms, so ODbL 1.0. () The future is the future, so cannot be known. () Should the license terms change in the future, there is a possibility that imported data may become incompatible. Therefore the original licensor needs be contacted for approval. Given the general trend to more open data, after what we are all about, that approval may well be given. () Note also that, by design, a duty to provide first level attribution is placed on the OSMF. This survives any potential license change and is general the most important concern of government organisations. () The is always the possibility that data may need to be removed and that is one of the minuses of imports. That is why it is important to always understand third-party licenses and to get general consent of any potentially affected, usually national or regional level, OSM mapping community before importing. There is a healthy debate indirectly about this going on in the general talk list. Mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On 09/20/2012 08:46 PM, Mike Dupont wrote: that sounds more like my conclusion, it is the end of the road for share alike and sharing for osm. basically it is turning into a dead end road. What in the hoof are you talking about? - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
On 09/19/2012 10:55 PM, Richard Weait wrote: [1] Of course, I don't mean you personally, Jean-Marc. I have no idea of your OSM screen name, if you are a Cadastre importer or if you use an import account. I mean those who have been knowingly ignoring the import guidelines. I was not integrating Cadastre data, until a couple of days ago when I did a couple of villages just to make sure that I understand the problem well enough and confirm that it does take manual work to do it right. One of the possible outcomes of the current debates is that the current rules are just fine as they are. But even if things turn out that way, the occurrence of this debate shows that not everyone was convinced. That is why I offered to clarify the consensual reasons for the rules, so that the rules become evident to all - including the current skeptics; or that they are modified to fit those consensual reasons. In your message, you explain in detail the profile of some of the dissenting editors and some of the explanations given by those who just find the rules inconvenient. Indeed some of the dissent is antisocial and must be controlled, and most of the inconvenience explanations can be addressed technically. But that still does not make clear for everyone the reasons for those rules. Many people on this list have been collaborating for long enough to have mutually adjusted and internalized a set of implicit values that represent OSM culture. But that culture is not entirely homogeneous, especially since linguistic barriers weaken the links with large clumps of users. So we need debate, to resolve the differences or find that there are no differences after all. We cannot do that with implicit values : we have to make them explicit. Today the rules are explicit, but not the reasons that underlie them. Expliciting can be tedious and provoke annoying nitpicking, but I fear that dissent will recur as long as the dissenters don't feel that they have been made part of an inclusive process that grounds the rules in mutually agreed values. So let's enumerate the whys of the hows. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance
2012/9/19 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de On 19.09.2012 11:22, Christian Quest wrote: We're voting proposed tag scheme. ... or not. Frequently nowadays a new value or scheme is invented w/o voting. No statement by myself whether I think this is good process or not... So these hard rules are coming from nowhere ? There's no process to set them ? Please read the comment of Richard (in the archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/pipermail/talk/2012-** September/064300.htmlhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2012-September/064300.html ). Yes, I'm saying that editing the wiki is not clearly publishing and ANNOUNCING a major change. As stated by Richard: the change of the wiki was just a documentation of the best practice used since long term, I would not call this a major change. But to point also on the other issue which started the whole discussion: if someone contacts you because of you behavior (even if it is in a foreign language) you should not completely ignore him. The complete ignorance of any contact (threre have been two or three tries) was the reason for the (short term) block, not the disregard of the guidelines. In fact I *did* answer twice, in March September. I explain my point of view and the special case of Cadastre import. I do not receive any answer after my response, excepte a blocked account a few days ago. Nothing to do with foreign language in my personnal case. Best ragards, Michael. Regards, -- Marc Sibert m...@sibert.fr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
Hi, On 09/19/2012 04:24 PM, sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: I've read the rather long thread Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance and I'd like to propose a change on the wiki page : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines I think that imports, or all automated edits, have multiple aspects. Some of them can be covered by local or national policies, others cannot. For example, I think that a local or national agreement would usually have the last word about what data is imported (maybe except in some extreme cases where the whole community suffers because someone imports every single cobblestone in a city but that's theoretical). But besides the content aspect, there's also the technical or procedural aspect - things like where and how to document your import, or whether or not you need a separate import account, or whether it is acceptable to do large-scale imports with an account the name of which signals disdain for the project. I don't think these should be decided locally. In the coming years we'll hopefully develop a good subsidiary structure with local chapters in all major communities, and I would expect that this will also bring a healthy discussion about what the local chapters can decide by themselves and what not. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bing aerial imagery priorities
Hendrik Oesterlin wrote on 18/06/2011 at 16:27:27 +1100 subject [OSM-talk] Bing aerial imagery priorities : Steve Coast wrote on 17/06/2011 at 08:09:37 +1100 subject [OSM-talk] Bing aerial imagery priorities : I'm speaking personally and there are no guarantees here but I'd like to get input on what areas you would like Bing to prioritise for aerial and/or satellite imagery in the coming year. Please mail sco...@microsoft.com with the area in question (I'd love to accept bounding boxes but don't really have the time so cities/countries are the best). I will pass this on to the right people and we may or may not be able to help. Thanks Steve New Caledonia and its islands would need some more high res imagery... Thank you Steve there are now good new imagery available for mainland New Caledonia. BTW: Is it possible to have both the older imagery and the new one available? On the new imagery some of regions are cloudy while on the old imagery this regions are clear. On the Loyalty Islands (Ouvéa, Lifou, Maré) there is no imagery jet: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/379252 Is it possible to put some imagery there? -- Sincerely Hendrik Oesterlin - New Caledonia ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
Pieren wrote: There definitely is not general agreement at this time that this passage should be changed. Could you please point out in archives (wiki or mailing list) where the separate account became generaly agreed ? Or you can simply tell me the communication channel and an approximate date, I will search myself. Pieren - I can remember the discussion in relation to the Canadian imports, but I don't have time to go back through. The general jist was that it was difficult to separate tidying up imported data from the 'base' import, and short term it would not be practical to make changes to the software to identify the differences, so the short term fix was to 'request' that the base import had a different user id. With the intention that a better solution would be looked into. We know that the process IS flawed, and that it needs tidying up, and since you have practical experience of handing this type of import, how about contributing to the overhaul? Actually where is THAT being debated? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
Frederik Ramm wrote: But besides the content aspect, there's also the technical or procedural aspect - things like where and how to document your import, or whether or not you need a separate import account, or whether it is acceptable to do large-scale imports with an account the name of which signals disdain for the project. I don't think these should be decided locally. Seconded There are perhaps three separate discussions here ... 1 - How fine a detail should be allowed? 2 - Is the style of raw imported data acceptable to OSM? 3 - Do we need to be able to identify a raw import? The first is more of a problem than the other two? People mapping at a macro level only using the same was as the road, boundary, edge of building, and so on make it difficult for those of us who are now adding the footpaths between that road and building. And some will always oppose adding some types of data - such as building. I have no problem with adding the coble stones but as an area tagged such, which may actually be the road! The automatic reduction of that area to a way for routing is another matter? The second links to the first when we import a course dataset and it needs to be reworked to fit into the OSM 'guidelines'. It may be preferable NOT to import the raw data, but provide it as an overlay for tracing? Or rework the raw data prior to import to a suitable format. The third then becomes a matter of 'is this the same data that as provided by the raw import'. Personally I think that identifying an element against a unique_id from the source data SHOULD be the standard, so that hopefully in years to come we can simply automatically scan a new dataset and flag everything that has changed? That includes objects that have disappeared! We then need to be able to identify those items that have not been modified (point 3) and update them if necessary. And those that have (point 2) so we can provide a 'manual merge' list. The 'separate account' was a crude attempt to provide a short term fix for 2/3 until a proper solution was put in place, and currently is still the best way to identify things until a more rugged solution is provided - centrally! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM Data layers
The import guideline thread spam got me thinking about how such an issue could be solved cleanly. I have forever had a problem with the OSM data being one big blob instead of using all that semantic information to group and organize the objects. There are a host of issues like importing datasets without breaking existing data and also the case of historical mapping. I'm no computer scientist nor have I been following mails to know if this was already discussed before, but I put down some fantasies I had about a future osm data layer model on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Layers Once again, I have no technical knowledge to reply to any questions on how this will work, but I hope someone can take something out from it and fix OSM for the better. -- Arun Ganesh (planemad) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Planemad http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I've combined their responses and made them generic. I take my turn to combine your arguments: - Too hard to register with another email. I say use username+osmimp...@yourisp.com if they support it. Alternatively, those concerned in the French community can surely offer their members additional email accounts to support their community. - Uploading other contributor's work is probably breaking another guideline. Using a single separate user account or a proxy user for all users has been already suggested. It would comply with the import guideline but we don't want that. - I don't want to change account settings in JOSM. I say start josm with alternate josm.home directory with your saved credentials. Like: java -Xmx2038M -Djosm.home=/home/username/import -jar /home/username/bin/josm-latest.jar - in Europe, the trend is to open more and more public geodata. It's usual to find contributors uploading external data from 2, 3 or 4 different sources. Each will require a different user account, a different email address and a different JOSM preference file. Each time you change something in your preference, you will have to repeat it in all your homes. - Cadastre is not an import. Cadastre is an import. Could you do the same thing if there were no Cadastre to import? No, - Untrue. The cadastre is also available as WMS. We started by tracing manually over raster images. I guess what UK users are doing today with OS buildings, we did it in the past until we were able to retrieve the vector data. - Cadastre is different; I am careful before I upload. All mappers are careful don't insult the rest of the community. :-) Fixing and reconciling data before upload is the obligation you have when contributing. Cadastre is still an import. - I agree. Cadastre is an import, but not a blind, automated, large scale import done after conflation on a GIS application. - No. I want credit for all of my mapping statistics all in one place. Simplest to fix. UserStat now allows you to combine stats from a group of your accounts. - nobody came here for statistics. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
Hi, De : Michael Kugelmann On 19.09.2012 23:45, Vincent de Chateau-Thierry wrote: The only criteria for removing French Cadastre data will be the value of the source tag. That's a bad idea: if someone for what ever reason just decides to remove (or change) the source=cadastre tag of a object (and don't change anything else) you can't identify the object any more. Or to be more precise: you need to use a lot of effort and check all versions of an object (this means: the whole planet) whether it once had the source=cadastre tag. But thats a lot of work to do. Much (!) more easy to identify all the object is if you can take all object created by a special account = just check the changesets. Checking all versions of all objects is the thing we just went through with a lot of pain and effort: creating and using the redaction bot. And we are all aware that this was necessary but not nice and a lot of unporoductive effort. So let's learn from the past and avoid possible issues in the future that can be done easily with very small aditional effort in the presence. That means that a separate ccount is a way of identifying contributions depending on their source. I can understand that such way is a good practice when a given source is strongly linked to a way of dealing with it : massive upload or single edit. But the problem with french cadastre remains the same since it is both used in massive _and_ single object uploads. In my previous mail I pointed out a way : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181674272 This way has one of its nodes which stand for a amenity=cafe : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1920879534 Both geometry of the way and tags for the node come from the same changeset, since I added them at the same time. But node information does not come from the Cadastre, it is my own survey. With the separate-account-by-source suggestion, I would have : 1- started JOSM with my account-for-import (which does not exist yet :-) ) 2- drawn the way, tagged with building=yes and source=Cadastre 3- uploaded it 4- exit from JOSM and restart with my regular account 5- edited the node tags 6- uploaded Wow I don't think such process is productive. It is artificialy time consuming with basically no gain at all. vincent Une messagerie gratuite, garantie à vie et des services en plus, ça vous tente ? Je crée ma boîte mail www.laposte.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance
On jeudi 20 septembre 2012, Marc SIBERT wrote: The complete ignorance of any contact (threre have been two or three tries) was the reason for the (short term) block, not the disregard of the guidelines. In fact I *did* answer twice, in March September. I explain my point of view and the special case of Cadastre import. I do not receive any answer after my response, excepte a blocked account a few days ago. Nothing to do with foreign language in my personnal case. Ouch ! I do trust what Marc says, and I guess he has proof to back this up. What we have then ? We don't have any discussion at all, and Marc isn't at fault here. we have a group of admin using their blocking power after sending semi automated email without bothering to understand the contributor's answers and not refering to the local community he belongs to. It is clear that this was an enforcement of guidelines best practices transformed into laws, no need to try to find the reason elsewhere. We can get back to the topic of governance and discussion about those laws and who decide them, and how. -- sly qui suis-je : http://sly.letuffe.org email perso : sylvain chez letuffe un point org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Check the list of arguments presented here for the mandatory separate account: 1. it's easier to separate from normal contributions 2. it's more effecient for sourcing 3. it's easier to identify the source if we change the license. We faced that issue in the past for ODbl transition 1. We said we upload sourced elements. We can easily identify the changesets. We already reverted bad imports ourselves. Using the same account was never an issue for us. And let say, I create my 2nd account. What happens if I use it for normal contributions ? I will be blocked by the DWG ? Probably not. Finally I could stay and always contribute with my 2nd account. Or what will distinguish my import account(s) to my normal contribtuion account for the DWG ? Attributions in the profile ? Are we blocked if we specify more than one attribution in the user profile ? Are we blocked if our contributions do not correspond to the attribution in the user profile ? or if the DWG is not able to understand/translate it ? 2. They are other methods for sourcing, each with pros and cons (available or not in exports, duplicates, etc). And sourcing is complex because many contributions are mixing several sources. And rebuilding the whole history of an element is not trivial. 3. In our case, the dataset is released in a kind of Public Domaine where only attribution is required. The risk about a licence change is null (and it was not an issue for the cc-by-sa to ODbl transition). Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
I'd like to propose a change on the wiki page : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines I think that imports, or all automated edits, have multiple aspects. Up to that point, we fully agree. there's also the technical or procedural aspect (...) I don't think these should be decided locally. And that's where we disagree. Your are not accepting any distinction about all different cases in your statement, and it seams you are implicitly denying the ability of the local community to decide wisely. What I miss is trust, I don't think we can build a world community of local communities if no trust is transfered to local communities (or is it a local chapter ? I have no clues about what differences there are) There is a big diplomatic difference between : We don't belive your local community is wise enough, so we decide of technical and procedural aspects for you and block your users if they don't follow this guideline and We trust your self governance, here is the key to block your own members, we are here to back you up in case of emmergency, please designate x representative of your community we can talk to, and here are the guideline we wish you enforce respect to your members In the coming years we'll hopefully (...) discussion about what the local chapters can decide by themselves and what not. Any reasons to wait for years ? That's exactly the discussion we are having now about a real case need, we have sent a representative of our community we trust, I have a proposal for the first rule to be discussed and agreed upon. -- sly qui suis-je : http://sly.letuffe.org email perso : sylvain chez letuffe un point org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
Pieren wrote: Check the list of arguments presented here for the mandatory separate account: Pieren - please stop banging on about this - we know that the current process is flawed but it WAS put in place when problems arose in the Canadian imports, and it IS current practice. If one 'local group' is treated as a 'special case' then we will get into a cycle of 'me to' so please lets not got there. In your particular case, there are arguments either way, and it may be appropriate for someone to say sorry, I don't know that anybody has particularly done anything wrong - on either side! - it is just a matter of miss-understanding what people are saying? On both sides? Lets move all this energy into fixing the process and getting a robust mechanism moving forward! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: there's also the technical or procedural aspect (...) I don't think these should be decided locally. And that's where we disagree. Your are not accepting any distinction about all different cases in your statement, and it seams you are implicitly denying the ability of the local community to decide wisely. sly - take a step back. The 'mechanisms' that we use MUST be managed centrally, along with the core software, and it is this mechanism that is currently BROKEN when handling imported data? We do not have a robust process in place world wide so we don't want groups running creating their own isolated processes? Now I have no doubt there are some clever people in every local workgroup who can take their own data sources and manipulate them in a way that can then be imported into the main database. There are no objections to that. Some imports will be geo-referencing new raster layers and there is no dispute about that process, but when it comes to 'importing' raw data there are big holes in the process world wide which still need plugging rather than local groups plouging on down their own 'agenda'. Now if there is no interest in supporting a central mechanism to work towards AUTOMATICALLY importing LOCALLY processed data then so be it. Go on wiping and reloading every time the source data is updated and manually merging everything. I happen to think that is the wrong way of doing it, but in the case of the French data I don't have the information to suggest anything else :( In the case of the UK data we know how, we are just not allowed to yet double :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance
sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: We can get back to the topic of governance and discussion about those laws and who decide them, and how. Or just get back to fixing the process in the first place? SO we have less chance of misinterpreting the 'guidelines'? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
The 'mechanisms' that we use MUST be managed centrally, What are you talking about ? What mechanisms are you refering to ? and it is this mechanism that is currently BROKEN when handling imported data? Are you talking about the mechanism that the dwg is blocking users not using a dedicated account for any third changeset over 10k objects wich looks like an import to them ? Well, I won't use such a word as broken since it has proven usefull for several cases to prevent and detect vandalism, but I'll be glad to use the world not optimal and to be improved We do not have a robust process in place world wide so we don't want groups running creating their own isolated processes? Sorry to say it again, but I don't understand you, could you be more precise with a specific example ? what robust process are you talking about ? which isolated processes ? -- sly qui suis-je : http://sly.letuffe.org email perso : sylvain chez letuffe un point org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] diversity amongst DWG members
Hi, Following the discussion on the infamous french Cadastre 'imports', I've tried to find the country of living of the DWG members (according to http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group): Matt Amos (OSMF Board) ; Matt ; UK Tom Hughes ; TomH ; UK Paul Norman ; pnorman ; near Vancouver, Canada Frederik Ramm ; ? ; Germany Henning Scholland ; ? ; Germany? Grant Slater ; ? ; UK Dave Stubbs ; randomjunk ; UK Richard Weait ; rw__ ; Toronto, Canada So, it seems that only three countries are represented, that half of the members are UK residents, and that 6 out of the 8 members are native english speakers, the other two being native german speakers. Are there plans to increase diversity amongst members of the DWG? It would certainly be helpful if more local communities would have one of their members amongst the DWG members. Lucas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] diversity amongst DWG members
On 20 September 2012 12:46, Lucas Nussbaum lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net wrote: Grant Slater ; ? ; UK I am South African, but currently living in the UK. I speak English and Afrikaans. http://osm.org/user/Firefishy / Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] diversity amongst DWG members
According to the Plan 2012 PDF they intend to look for new members... Personally I think they're doing a great job and I would not want to take their place. Greets, Floris On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Lucas Nussbaum lu...@lucas-nussbaum.netwrote: Hi, Following the discussion on the infamous french Cadastre 'imports', I've tried to find the country of living of the DWG members (according to http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group): Matt Amos (OSMF Board) ; Matt ; UK Tom Hughes ; TomH ; UK Paul Norman ; pnorman ; near Vancouver, Canada Frederik Ramm ; ? ; Germany Henning Scholland ; ? ; Germany? Grant Slater ; ? ; UK Dave Stubbs ; randomjunk ; UK Richard Weait ; rw__ ; Toronto, Canada So, it seems that only three countries are represented, that half of the members are UK residents, and that 6 out of the 8 members are native english speakers, the other two being native german speakers. Are there plans to increase diversity amongst members of the DWG? It would certainly be helpful if more local communities would have one of their members amongst the DWG members. Lucas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] diversity amongst DWG members
On 20/09/2012 12:46, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: It would certainly be helpful if more local communities would have one of their members amongst the DWG members. It certainly would -- those local communities who feel they need better representation should decide amongst themselves who they want to nominate, and then that person can join in with DWG (and any other OSMF WG they feel is appropriate). -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bing aerial imagery priorities
Would be nice if they would fix the aereal images in the capital area in Iceland on the border of Reykjavík and Kópavogur. There are some major residential areas which can't be adjusted according to imagery due to that. I'm sure they actually have the images but haven't chosen which ones to apply to the empty areas. - Svavar Kjarrval On 20/09/12 07:28, Hendrik Oesterlin wrote: Hendrik Oesterlin wrote on 18/06/2011 at 16:27:27 +1100 subject [OSM-talk] Bing aerial imagery priorities : Steve Coast wrote on 17/06/2011 at 08:09:37 +1100 subject [OSM-talk] Bing aerial imagery priorities : I'm speaking personally and there are no guarantees here but I'd like to get input on what areas you would like Bing to prioritise for aerial and/or satellite imagery in the coming year. Please mail sco...@microsoft.com with the area in question (I'd love to accept bounding boxes but don't really have the time so cities/countries are the best). I will pass this on to the right people and we may or may not be able to help. Thanks Steve New Caledonia and its islands would need some more high res imagery... Thank you Steve there are now good new imagery available for mainland New Caledonia. BTW: Is it possible to have both the older imagery and the new one available? On the new imagery some of regions are cloudy while on the old imagery this regions are clear. On the Loyalty Islands (Ouvéa, Lifou, Maré) there is no imagery jet: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/379252 Is it possible to put some imagery there? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] If you're on Twitter
...you might like to retweet this: http://twitter.com/openstreetmap/status/248759285801185281 :) cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
On 20/09/2012 13:18, Lester Caine wrote: Go on wiping and reloading every time the source data is updated and manually merging everything. Sounds ugly doesn't it ? Because it is. Wouldn't it be much better if each building from the cadastre had a UUID that could be traced so that differential imports could be performed with little disturbance and little manual work ? Yes. But sadly that is not how the French cadastre works : it is just a bunch of georeferenced images. So the user of cadastral data has to repair the buildings split where a cadastral plot limit is drawn across, check for proper geographic referencing using GPS traces, imagery and geodesic reference points, expunge the data that describes buildings that are already in OSM, check the general sanity of the data, remove the occasional artefacts... I don't like it either - it is a lousy cadastre but that's the only one we have. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] diversity amongst DWG members
On 20/09/12 12:46, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Following the discussion on the infamous french Cadastre 'imports', I've tried to find the country of living of the DWG members (according to http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group): Matt Amos (OSMF Board) ; Matt ; UK Tom Hughes ; TomH ; UK Paul Norman ; pnorman ; near Vancouver, Canada Frederik Ramm ; ? ; Germany Henning Scholland ; ? ; Germany? Grant Slater ; ? ; UK Dave Stubbs ; randomjunk ; UK Richard Weait ; rw__ ; Toronto, Canada I have not been a DWG member for some time now (well over a year I think). Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
- Original Message - From: Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com To: Licensing and other legal discussions. legal-t...@openstreetmap.org Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 6:32 AM Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data Hi there, I have a question about imports and the ODBl, I see that some sources have decided to dual license the data http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue But how can some third parties data be compatible when the CT says it can change any time, surly they might be compatible with the current instance of the license, but how can they be compatible with future versions of the license when they are no known? I think the answer to your question is covered by the clarification on license compatibility issued by the LWG on 19 July 2011 [1] The intent of the Contributor Terms as regards contributions that come from or are derived from third parties is: 1) To ask the contributor to be *reasonably* certain that such data can be distributed under the specific specific licenses, as explicitly listed in clause 3 of the contributor terms: CC-BY-SA 2.0 and ODbL 1.0. Should the license change in the future, continued distribution of some data that comes from or is derived from third parties may no longer be possible. If this happens, it will have to be removed. This will be the responsibility of OSMF. Should the licence change to something other than CC-BY-SA 2.0 or ODbL 1.0, OSMF have guaranteed that they will identify and remove any data incompatible with that licence. Incidentally, I believe that the burden OSMF have imposed upon themselves makes it almost certain that no other licence than CC-BY-SA 2.0 or ODbL 1.0 would ever be used. David [1] https://docs.google.com/document/preview?id=1-sm2NCRPBKQnb3dn8CFORi5RNE_JpdG02rwYVjLJppIpli=1 How can a contributor import any data and keep the data open to license change? How can you keep any imports at all from people who have not agreed to the CT directly? thanks mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: On 20/09/2012 13:18, Lester Caine wrote: Go on wiping and reloading every time the source data is updated and manually merging everything. Sounds ugly doesn't it ? Because it is. Wouldn't it be much better if each building from the cadastre had a UUID that could be traced so that differential imports could be performed with little disturbance and little manual work ? Yes. But sadly that is not how the French cadastre works : it is just a bunch of georeferenced images. So the user of cadastral data has to repair the buildings split where a cadastral plot limit is drawn across, check for proper geographic referencing using GPS traces, imagery and geodesic reference points, expunge the data that describes buildings that are already in OSM, check the general sanity of the data, remove the occasional artefacts... I don't like it either - it is a lousy cadastre but that's the only one we have. So would it not be better to provide it as an raster overlay instead? And trace from that. But I was assuming that this was vector data? So it can be processed into a database? I am sure that from version to version they are not going to be changing the coordinates of the majority of buildings? All that raw data can be imported as a layer in OSM, but in addition it can be compared with a previous import and identical elements ignored? That just leaves the changes between versions to be processed, and you end up with a better version of the cadastre data than the government ;) And reference it to the rest of the OSM data. Some of us are playing similar 'tricks' with the UK OS data ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: The 'mechanisms' that we use MUST be managed centrally, What are you talking about ? What mechanisms are you refering to ? Simply the methods by which data is added to the database. And all I am trying to understand now is why if we HAVE digital data to work with for which further versions will be provided over the coming decades someone has to manually check every line every year or so? This data was in the database, so only the changes needed to be posted, but a mistake was made. We learn from mistakes and so what I am trying to learn is if we could have HELPED by reducing the chance of the mistake? By providing tools that take advantage of the data and process it in a way that it is more useful ... in a format that is compatible with later importing to OSM. I know there is something of a 'cultural' thing here and that has some involvement in the recent problems, but at the end of the day we all just want to help, and 'diving for the shelter' does not help. Fresh eyes and computing power can provide an alternative view ... but it would still be nice if we had a core mechanism that said 'this is a raw import from xxx and it's id is yyy'? It's the 'id is yyy' that seems to be the stumbling block with some people? But I currently see no way to develop an automated update process without. I see no reason that even if the raw data has no internal id we can't add that via the import process? I do it all the time with the raw data I'm being supplied, and now the sources are using my id's to improve their end. Unfortunately not usable mapping stuff though. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:03 PM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: Should the licence change to something other than CC-BY-SA 2.0 or ODbL 1.0, OSMF have guaranteed that they will identify and remove any data incompatible with that licence. Incidentally, I believe that the burden OSMF have imposed upon themselves makes it almost certain that no other licence than CC-BY-SA 2.0 or ODbL 1.0 would ever be used. Ok, well then if this is so, then we dont need to leave the license question open as in the CT. Why all the drama then? If I can resolve this question, then it should not be a problem for me to convince people to add the odbl clause to people providing data. I cannot ask people to agree to an open license, that is out of the question, but odbl for database rights does not seem to be a problem. It occurs me then under certain condions then cc-by-sa data from europe which has database rights anyway might be just fine and a moot point. thanks for your answers and opinions, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
De : Lester Caine So would it not be better to provide it as an raster overlay instead? And trace from that. But I was assuming that this was vector data? French cadastre is vector data in about 70-80% of the 36.000 municipalities. The rest is made of old paper maps turned into pixels and delivered as raster data. Both are available as raster layer in JOSM thanks to the cadastre-fr plugin. For the vector data, it is also available as raw .osm files, split into thematic layers : mainly administrative boundaries and buildings. So it can be processed into a database? I am sure that from version to version they are not going to be changing the coordinates of the majority of buildings? All that raw data can be imported as a layer in OSM, but in addition it can be compared with a previous import and identical elements ignored? That just leaves the changes between versions to be processed, and you end up with a better version of the cadastre data than the government ;) And reference it to the rest of the OSM data. Sure it can be processed. Change detection for buildings is a topic discussed on talk-fr but there is no real tool vailable yet to deal with it. And as said by Jean-Marc, buildings taken from the cadastre as vector parts don't have any ID at all. vincent Une messagerie gratuite, garantie à vie et des services en plus, ça vous tente ? Je crée ma boîte mail www.laposte.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you're on Twitter
Which one has both public transport routing and a Streetview alternative? This might just confuse your 'typical' iPhone user. Greets, Floris On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote: ...you might like to retweet this: http://twitter.com/**openstreetmap/status/**248759285801185281http://twitter.com/openstreetmap/status/248759285801185281 :) cheers Richard __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Check the list of arguments presented here for the mandatory separate account: 1. it's easier to separate from normal contributions 2. it's more effecient for sourcing 3. it's easier to identify the source if we change the license. We faced that issue in the past for ODbl transition Lester Is a separate account is the better and only way to have some metadata documenting imports? I don't think so.There are various ways to document imports. There were discussions on the Import listin 2009. Andy Allan opinion was that metadata like attribution should be on the Changeset and not on the geo feature. Other like Pieren suggested that it is sometime necessary to give attribution on the geo feature. Andy Allen also stated that using a dedicated account was something he less bothered about. When uploading to the OSM database, I think that the Changeset comment field can be used to both give attribution and indicate that it is bulk edit. This will be simple and as efficient. It will be easier to manage for both the contributor, the local chapter and the DWG. Pierre ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] diversity amongst DWG members
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:46 AM, Lucas Nussbaum lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net wrote: Hi, Following the discussion on the infamous french Cadastre 'imports', I've tried to find the country of living of the DWG members You might also have a look at other working groups and opportunities to volunteer for OSMF, in addition to anything that you do for OSM as a mapper. It would be nice to have more folks translating OSMF articles. http://blog.osmfoundation.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
De : 2012-09-20 Lester Caine lester at lsces.co.uk Pieren - please stop banging on about this - we know that the current process is flawed but it WAS put in place when problems arose in the Canadian imports, and it IS current practice. If one 'local group' is treated as a 'special case' then we will get into a cycle of 'me to' so please lets not got there. Lester I am a canadian contributor since jan 2010 and follow the Talk-Ca list. I dont remember a lot of discussions about this since then. Just some people expressing that they dont like imports by principle and prefer having fun mapping from gps traces. How much problems? How much discussions? Any consensus? Where and when? Pierre De : Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk À : OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Jeudi 20 septembre 2012 7h05 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update Pieren wrote: Check the list of arguments presented here for the mandatory separate account: Pieren - please stop banging on about this - we know that the current process is flawed but it WAS put in place when problems arose in the Canadian imports, and it IS current practice. If one 'local group' is treated as a 'special case' then we will get into a cycle of 'me to' so please lets not got there. In your particular case, there are arguments either way, and it may be appropriate for someone to say sorry, I don't know that anybody has particularly done anything wrong - on either side! - it is just a matter of miss-understanding what people are saying? On both sides? Lets move all this energy into fixing the process and getting a robust mechanism moving forward! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Knight awards $575k to improve OpenStreetMap infrastructure
Hello everyone - I'm excited to announce that the Knight Foundation has awarded a grant of $575,000 to Development Seed and MapBox to improve OpenStreetMap infrastructure. Myself and my colleages from the Development Seed and MapBox team are looking forward to closely work with other OpenStreetMap community members to put this money to good use. The goal is to improve editing infrastructure to enable better and more focused editors, update openstreetmap.org with social features to allow better interaction around common tasks, and make it easier to access and use OpenStreetMap data. These three components together aim to allow a fast growing community to scale better. The community has already identified issues in these areas and begun to make massive improvements. We'll collaborate with existing efforts as much as possible and do all work in the open, on platforms like GitHub and producing exclusively open source code. These are broad brushstrokes for now, without much technical detail. Right now we're getting our house in order - we will follow up in the next weeks with more detailed thoughts on where we would like to go. In the meantime, fire away with questions here or feel free to get in touch directly under a...@mapbox.com. Links to announcements: http://mapbox.com/blog/knight-invests-openstreetmap/ http://www.knightfoundation.org/press-room/press-release/six-ventures-bring-data-public-winners-knight-news/ == About the Knight Foundation The Knight Foundation supports transformational projects in journalism, media, community and the arts. Knight has a strong track record in providing key funding to open source projects such as Document Cloud or Panda. Development Seed has worked with Knight in more than one instance before, noteably TileMill was launched on a Knight grant. - TileMill http://www.knightfoundation.org/grants/20094589/ - Panda http://www.knightfoundation.org/grants/20110660/ - DocumentCloud http://www.knightfoundation.org/grants/20110146/ Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
Vincent de Chateau-Thierry wrote: For the vector data, it is also available as raw .osm files, split into thematic layers : mainly administrative boundaries and buildings. Sure it can be processed. Change detection for buildings is a topic discussed on talk-fr but there is no real tool vailable yet to deal with it. And as said by Jean-Marc, buildings taken from the cadastre as vector parts don't have any ID at all. My own interest here is more historic than current and I was looking for the development of areas relating to my family tree, but there seems to be a general consensus that once an object ceases to exist it should be deleted from the database. So we need a home to put that data. You have data from 2009? and 2012 for France, so it would be nice to retain all this history as well. This is were 'local' archives may play a roll, and additional servers provide additional layers such as the historic data that has been purged ... or older versions of imports. In specific relation to vector imports, I presume that the cadastre data is 'simply' individual lines? Rather than shapes? So every item currently has it's own ID even if it's only a line number on a list, and comparing the 2009 data with 2012 will produce a list of lines deleted and lines added? 'Hopefully'! Some cleaver-clogs could probably put together a bit of code that links lines where their ends touch, but if you just manually select lines and 'link' them and then add a house number etc. Now we have an ID for those set of lines in the import database and we only touch them again if the raw data changes ... hopefully the geo-referencing has not changed between versions! This is the sort of development we can all go around duplicating or club together and come up with core code that only needs some local filtering to work with a particular import? Isn't it better where we HAVE vector data to make the best use of it, and then spend our time enhancing the details ... like adding road names and house numbers? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance
Le 20 sept. 2012 à 13:22, Lester Caine a écrit : sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: We can get back to the topic of governance and discussion about those laws and who decide them, and how. Or just get back to fixing the process in the first place? SO we have less chance of misinterpreting the 'guidelines'? Yes, it is all about governance and not only a technical issue, although many pound for reducing the debate to it. OSM is going more and more political (not in the sense of ordinary politics, of course). Some decisions elaborated on technical have to be reviewed and weighed by the only political body we have, namely the Board. There is no way having a Board which says it is always sticking to our brilliant technical team, whatever they decide. We know they are all overworked, so it is not for being reproachful to anybody. The Board can put a loose lead on minor matters, but not on decisions that affect potentially every contributor and having put mandatory a separated count, as having blocked whithout an inquiry about the fact fall in this category. And these were a matter of official announcement. Some unforeseen reactions will happen more and more, but they will have to be treated politically. If the Board refuse to manage ours affairs this way, it will be overtaken more and more, as the community grows and as more and data will be liberated. It can take the risk to be cornered and make dangerous or exaggerated decisions. Furthermore, local communities will express desires and propositions. The Board must go further and have deep reflections about le political governance of the OSMF I repeat that it will be a major concern in the future Annual General Meetings and elsewhere. For illustrating the import issues, not only public geodata were integrated (meaning letting correct data in their places) under the authority of the Brest District (Communauté urbaine. 240 000 inh.) for itds territory, but a whole area of 1500 km2, mainly OSM vacant, was added, municipality after municipality, by the GIS of the previous body. I am pounding on my own local administration for having the same integration for completing and correcting a buildings import from the Cadastre having been cast unexpectedly by a Dutch citizen. A bunch of us, in the French community, were working hard for merge thousands parts of the buildings. I was happy to see my work enriched, but I do not seek for learning how to import, as the GIS is very good. I concentrate my efforts on footways, cycleways, green spots, transports... This Dutch made a good thing : he created a special count. this was 2 years ago. ;-). In France, more and more public GIS are considering having their geodata open, and cast into OSM for many public-friendly applications that could not be handled from their database directly. They are interested in working with the general public for signalling incidents and local issues and with local mappers for survey and proposing. Christian Rogel OSMF member ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
Pierre Béland wrote: Check the list of arguments presented here for the mandatory separate account: 1. it's easier to separate from normal contributions 2. it's more effecient for sourcing 3. it's easier to identify the source if we change the license. We faced that issue in the past for ODbl transition Lester Is a separate account is the better and only way to have some metadata documenting imports? I don't think so.There are various ways to document imports. To be honest I think that the 'separate account' was originally recommended for a single import of a complete set of data. So we all knew that this data came from 'xxx', but I'm not even sure now that when you select an object it still tells you that information? There were discussions on the Import listin 2009. Andy Allan opinion was that metadata like attribution should be on the Changeset and not on the geo feature. Other like Pieren suggested that it is sometime necessary to give attribution on the geo feature. Andy Allen also stated that using a dedicated account was something he less bothered about. When uploading to the OSM database, I think that the Changeset comment field can be used to both give attribution and indicate that it is bulk edit. This will be simple and as efficient. It will be easier to manage for both the contributor, the local chapter and the DWG. Comment fields are not documented as well as they should be and the 'problem' that instigated this thread is to my view of what's on line a very good example of why there WAS a problem. Correctly flagging information is essential and we do perhaps need a little more 'automatic' actions. I can see that the French data is perhaps not suited to a 'single import' which is then the problem, since multiple imports already processed in some way are just as much a problem? Lets try and make the 'initial' import as clean as possible even if that has to be to a staging area from which packets can be taken and manually processed. Identification can then be married back to the raw data in a location where anybody can see it? If that Knight Foundation grant is suitable I'd like to propose that it is directed towards the very tools I am talking about to take all the currently available data sources and importing them in as raw a format as possible into an overlay system from where they can be merged with the main database. Rather than the quite heroic efforts that are currently being used to import them? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
2012-09-20 Lester Caine lester at lsces.co.uk Comment fields are not documented as well as they should be and the 'problem' that instigated this thread is to my view of what's on line a very good example of why there WAS a problem. Correctly flagging information is essential and we do perhaps need a little more 'automatic' actions. I can see that the French data is perhaps not suited to a 'single import' which is then the problem, since multiple imports already processed in some way are just as much a problem? Lets try and make the 'initial' import as clean as possible even if that has to be to a staging area from which packets can be taken and manually processed. Identification can then be married back to the raw data in a location where anybody can see it? Do you mean that documenting well the comment field would be a satisfactory solution? Pierre ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
Béland Pierre wrote: 2012-09-20 Lester Caine lester at lsces.co.uk Comment fields are not documented as well as they should be and the 'problem' that instigated this thread is to my view of what's on line a very good example of why there WAS a problem. Correctly flagging information is essential and we do perhaps need a little more 'automatic' actions. I can see that the French data is perhaps not suited to a 'single import' which is then the problem, since multiple imports already processed in some way are just as much a problem? Lets try and make the 'initial' import as clean as possible even if that has to be to a staging area from which packets can be taken and manually processed. Identification can then be married back to the raw data in a location where anybody can see it? Do you mean that documenting well the comment field would be a satisfactory solution? In the short term it would help ... if you check the particular commit that caused all this uproar then a few extra words COULD have prevented a problem? I accept now there was a discussion on the French list but how many local lists do we have now? I can't see any reference to 'cadastre import' with reference to that activity but even then I would contest that wiping the original data was still wrong - even if a local group 'approved' it - but I'm not from the camp that prefer 'only current data' ;) Bulk deletes will always attract attention as they should and even if in this case the commit was 'Mistake with merging cadastre import - deleting to allow new data to load' I would expect SOMEONE to be checking that it was right! As others have said, I find the actions taken by DWG totally acceptable as there is no obvious attribution to 'cadastre import' ... which is all that was asked for previously? Alright insisting on a 'new account' may be wrong, but identifying the 'import source' somewhere is not unreasonable? We do have the problem of the 'language' used to inform other users and some English translations on some of the cadastre import stuff would help? I will add that I am very much opposed to any suggestion that the database should be 'carved up' and managed by different local groups. The DWG is not ideal, and as far as I am aware would welcome some additional help from wherever. But that is the ideal level to oversee the whole picture and in the end arbitrate when groups disagree amongst themselves. How many 'border disputes' will we have if we go down that path? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance
I believe there is some misunderstanding of the relationship between OSM and OSMF. Am 20.09.2012 16:36, schrieb Christian Rogel: Le 20 sept. 2012 à 13:22, Lester Caine a écrit : sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: We can get back to the topic of governance and discussion about those laws and who decide them, and how. Or just get back to fixing the process in the first place? SO we have less chance of misinterpreting the 'guidelines'? Yes, it is all about governance and not only a technical issue, although many pound for reducing the debate to it. OSM is going more and more political (not in the sense of ordinary politics, of course). Some decisions elaborated on technical have to be reviewed and weighed by the only political body we have, namely the Board. There is no way having a Board which says it is always sticking to our brilliant technical team, whatever they decide. While a more top down organisation of OSM a la Wikipedia or other organisations is imaginable, there has never been a community consensus that such a step would be desirable (if anything it is exactly the opposite). So while the OSMF provides the formal structure for the working groups, most policy decisions are not made or even vetted by the OSMF board, but are simply decided by the people interested in the issues at hand and (particularly in the case of the DWG) the people that do the work. Not to mention the far larger number of policies (tagging and others) that are not in the remit of any specific working group and are decided by the OSM community at large. OSM WG membership is fairly open, but the basic premise is that you join to help with the work at hand and influence policy by that, not by using a WG as a political grandstand. It is imaginable that if a WG stepped very far outside its remit the OSMF board might intervene, but I don't know of any such situation and the case in hand is clearly not such a situation either. The import guidelines don't restrict the imported content outside the legal requirements that it be compatible with our distribution terms and simply adds a couple of rules on how to achieve community consensus and how to technically implement the import, the later are essentially practical measures to make the core DWG job manageable. If at all, as I've pointed out before, the administrative and technical requirements are too lax, this is at least what the experience during the licence change would indicate. In the long term we may need more formal ways to produce rules and guidelines for OSM as a whole, however this is not something that will be easy and will likely be a process of the same order of magnitude as the licence change. [Discussion of more and more OGD becoming available ommited] Yes, the development in the area of Open Data poses a serious challenge to OSM. I suspect that the attitude of large parts of the community is that OGD is a good thing, however I'm also fairly sure that there is no community consensus that OSM should aspire to import everything that is available just because it is there. In the end we want to produce an editable, community sourced map of the world, not simply a copy of data that is available (and remains available) elsewhere. I'm sure that the OpenData issue will be a very hot topic over the next months and years, but it really belongs in a separate thread and not in a discussion over administrative and technical procedures. Simon PS: just in case it is not clear, I'm not representing the position of the OSMF board in this discussion, just that of a mapper that had to chase down a number of rogue imports over the last months. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Import guidelines proposal update
2012-09-20 Lester Caine wrote Alright insisting on a 'new account' may be wrong, but identifying the 'import source' somewhere is not unreasonable? We do have the problem of the 'language' used to inform other users and some English translations on some of the cadastre import stuff would help? I will add that I am very much opposed to any suggestion that the database should be 'carved up' and managed by different local groups. The DWG is not ideal, and as far as I am aware would welcome some additional help from wherever. But that is the ideal level to oversee the whole picture and in the end arbitrate when groups disagree amongst themselves. How many 'border disputes' will we have if we go down that path? I will speak for the Québec community only. Management in a large organization cannot be made centralized only and with a few rules. When we say management, we are talking about following mapping and contributors, informing, teaching, organizing social events. In Canada, we have the Talk-ca discussion list were most of the discussion is in english. And often, there are no tools for monitoriging at regional or local level. I am a HOT member. Our work brings us in many countries were we try to develop local communities. We have to adapt to a multitude of cultures not to talk about computer literacy and language problems. The Knight Foundation 575,000$ award should help to adapt Openstreetmap infrastructure to the organization. I see two interesting text written by Kate Chapman and Mikel Maron of HOT that give good clues. Kate Chapman, http://www.maploser.com/2012/03/29/all-i-want-for-openstreetmap-is-simple/ Mikel Maron All I want fo OpenStreetMap ... Is Social and Attention http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/03/30/1773 Pierre ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance
Simon Poole wrote: Yes, the development in the area of Open Data poses a serious challenge to OSM. I suspect that the attitude of large parts of the community is that OGD is a good thing, however I'm also fairly sure that there is no community consensus that OSM should aspire to import everything that is available just because it is there. In the end we want to produce an editable, community sourced map of the world, not simply a copy of data that is available (and remains available) elsewhere. In support of importing data that is available, the cadastre dataset is probably a good 'benchmark' where fine detail such as building are available, but this lacks the additional information such as street names and numbers, which is exactly where OSM can step in and enhance the data? But I view the situation as one were OSM will provide a level playing field where a vast basket of OGD data in multiple formats will be merged into a coherent whole? And perhaps some of that data will only be accessible on secondary servers as overlays? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [possibly OT] Apples IOS 6 Maps and the response
The new map replacement from apple in its IOS has drawn a lot of criticism . quote from http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/20/apple-maps-ios6-station-towe Within minutes of the launch of the iOS6 operating system, which comes preloaded with Apple Maps, users were reporting that London had been relocated to Ontario, Paddington station had vanished, the Sears Tower in Chicago had shrunk, and Helsinki railway station had been turned into a park. /quote Having said that How much is it OSM data? There have been messages saying its the TomTom data but if you look at http://gspa21.ls.apple.com/html/attribution.html there is a line (OSM) OpenStreetMap contributors, http://www.openstreetmap.org/ Pretty confusing and sad to say that many of the comments were against the map app and suggesting that they would hardly accept anything other than google maps . Regards, Pavithran -- pavithran sakamuri http://look-pavi.blogspot.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance
Le 20 sept. 2012 à 18:59, Simon Poole a écrit : . While a more top down organisation of OSM a la Wikipedia or other organisations is imaginable, there has never been a community consensus that such a step would be desirable (if anything it is exactly the opposite). So while the OSMF provides the formal structure for the working groups, most policy decisions are not made or even vetted by the OSMF board, but are simply decided by the people interested in the issues at hand and (particularly in the case of the DWG) the people that do the work. Not to mention the far larger number of policies (tagging and others) that are not in the remit of any specific working group and are decided by the OSM community at large. Yes, the OSMF has not be established as a topdown organization, but it has to fulfill its commitments for maintaining the servers and the free data inside. Art. 4 of the Memorandum of Association : In support of the objects, but not otherwise, the Company shall have power to do all things incidental or conducive to the attainment of the objects or any of them. That includes responsibility for attaining the objects. So, as we have a DWG a making tremendous efforts for maintaining a good policy for the data (including the boring chase of proprietary ones), it may happen and it will happen more and more that a projected decision exceed the field of the data policy to jump into a political field. In those rare cases, the Board of Directors has to be put in the loop, before going further. We have a good example with the recommendation of a special account muted without announcement and explanation to an obligation. One more time, no personal reproach here. But from that example, the Board must think of the growing difficulties to handle and be prepared for that. It will be no use saying DWG is appertaining to the community as it is no more and no less than an efficient working group fueled by the contributors propositions. Responsibility is up to the Board when speaking of rules applicable maybe to every contributor or for managing a tool or a resource specific to a part of the World. Christian Rogel OSMF Member ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines proposal update
Hi, On 20.09.2012 12:29, sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: And that's where we disagree. Your are not accepting any distinction about all different cases in your statement, and it seams you are implicitly denying the ability of the local community to decide wisely. What I wanted to say is: If the negative effects of a bad decision only, or mostly, affect the local community, then they can be trusted to take these decisions themselves, because they will learn from their mistakes. If the negative effects however affect other/different people - perhaps because they are using the API outside of specifications, or causing more work for people elsewhere in the project - then they can't. Of course, this does not mean that one could not have a system where rules are made centrally but execution of these rules is entrusted to local communities (and only if that doesn't work, someone else will step in). In the coming years we'll hopefully (...) discussion about what the local chapters can decide by themselves and what not. Any reasons to wait for years? I don't think we should *wait* for years, I just believe that it will take a long, long time to get this worked out properly. There are tons of things that need to be at least thought about on the way to a federated OSM project. There are very simple technical things. For example, assume that there was a French DWG dealing only with French cases; we don't have the means to set things up in a way that the French DWG can only block French users. We don't even have a proper definition of local communities and who is entitled to whatever privileges we grant local communities - for example, we recently had an issue in the Crimea which is part of Ukraine but where local mappers would rather not be governed by decisions made by the wider Ukrainian community. So, what if a Toulouse mapper comes to OSMF and complains that OSMF-FR is unfairly suppressing Languedoc self-determination? What if local communities decide stuff that is considered harmful to the project as a whole by someone on the other side of the world? Who would adjudicate such a conflict? Can the world-wide community be called to a vote that is binding for France? Can the French community make a binding rule for Toulouse? How many is a community, anyway? Do they have to be incorporated? Do they have to be democratic? What if a national community - as has been the case in the past with some Eastern European national communities - takes a very liberal attitude towards copyright (the government web page says private use only but they never prosecuted anyone...)? Can a national community make a deal with a sponsor and allow the sponsor to carry the OSM logo? All this has been discussed for years, on and off, when we talked about local chapters. And I expect that it will be another couple of years until we have a structure that works. That's exactly the discussion we are having now about a real case need, we have sent a representative of our community we trust, I have a proposal for the first rule to be discussed and agreed upon. Personally, I don't think you can disregard all the questions I mentioned above and simply make a rule that says a few nice things about a national community which might or might not be well defined in any particular case. I think that your suggestion is too much like case law: There's a rule that leads to a result you don't like, and then you amend it with a little extra rule specifically for that purpose. (In your case, you have built a regional limited import special rule into the separate import account rule, but what if tomorrow the French community decides that they would like to be exempt from something else...?) I think that we need to take quite a few steps back and stop discussing about oh god oh god a respected French OSMer was blocked by evil DWG, where on earth did they get that authority to block him and how can we take it away from them. We should be discussing what rules we need at all, where we don't need any rules, who makes these rules, how local communities come into play there, and all that. This, I believe, takes a lot of time, and real, committed, long-time work by a few individuals who really want to move the project forward, rather than just a quick fix for a particular problem. (Technically, and in the very-long-run, my cloud-nine astronaut vapourware vision is of regional communities operating their own databases and them all to be in some kind of federated system. But that's not something we can decide by a quick wiki poll tomorrow ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] diversity amongst DWG members
Hi, On 20.09.2012 13:46, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Are there plans to increase diversity amongst members of the DWG? We've long been looking for native speakers of a couple of Eastern European languages (Russian, Ukrainian) because an above-average number of disputes arise in that area and it would be great to have the support of a native speaker or two. Having said that, DWG is not actively recruiting - we're keeping our eyes open and dropping a hint here and there and will consider applications when we get them, but we don't have a recruiting drive going, for fear of attracting the wrong people (those who feel that DWG would give them power). And while language capabilities are great, the most important thing in a DWG member is that they can listen to people, that they are reasonably polite and don't allow themselves to be drawn into an argument too quickly. So if we have another good person from the UK or Canada or Germany applying we certainly won't sent them away just because we'd prefer someone from South America. You may, from this discussion, get the impression that DWG is a powerful police force who make their own rules and block anyone who doesn't listen. In reality, DWG work means that you spend a lot of time trying to mediate mini conflicts. A mapper calls and complains that another mapper has deleted his work; you contact the other mapper and they claim that no, the other guy was at fault because he made too many errors and didn't listen, and so on - all the time you try and find out what has really happened, and who is to blame, and what you can do to make these people work together instead of against each other. We're not looking for jurors, judges, or policemen at DWG, we don't need politicians or the hot-headed and trigger-happy; we mostly need kindergarten teachers ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [possibly OT] Apples IOS 6 Maps and the response
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:39 PM, pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com wrote: The new map replacement from apple in its IOS has drawn a lot of criticism . quote from http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/20/apple-maps-ios6-station-towe Within minutes of the launch of the iOS6 operating system, which comes preloaded with Apple Maps, users were reporting that London had been relocated to Ontario, Paddington station had vanished, the Sears Tower in Chicago had shrunk, and Helsinki railway station had been turned into a park. /quote Having said that How much is it OSM data? There have been messages saying its the TomTom data but if you look at http://gspa21.ls.apple.com/html/attribution.html there is a line (OSM) OpenStreetMap contributors, http://www.openstreetmap.org/ Pretty confusing and sad to say that many of the comments were against the map app and suggesting that they would hardly accept anything other than google maps . Also note that it was just reported in IRC that 4chan got it in their heads that they could troll apple maps by editing OSM: http://boards.4chan.org/g/res/27736265 The OP and at least one user's edits have been reverted already but as always, keep an eye out for vandalism. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Aligning steets
On 20 September 2012 09:41, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Yes it is a small roundabout as you can not legally drive over it unless it is impractical to do so. The vehicle in the street view is clearly about to drive around the center island. Whereas if it was a truck/bus/caravan it would be able to drive over it if necessary. Read through the mailing list archives all this discussion was thrashed out years ago and nothing has changed. What you just described is the exact definition of a mini-roundabout. Mini-roundabout doesn't mean you can legally drive over it in any vehicle, it means that you can physically drive over it if you need to. The australian guidelines are wrong, in this case. And yes, I know how they evolved to this state, I've kept up on the discussion over the years. But with the recent clarifications to the definition of mini-roundabout and roundabout in the main tagging guideline, and the fact that you can't tag a fully drawn out roundabout as traversable, there is now a need for using mini-roundabout in Australia. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Aligning steets
On 20/09/12 18:37, Stephen Hope wrote: Mini-roundabout doesn't mean you can legally drive over it in any vehicle, it means that you can physically drive over it if you need to. The australian guidelines are wrong, in this case. And yes, I know how they evolved to this state, I've kept up on the discussion over the years. But with the recent clarifications to the definition of mini-roundabout and roundabout in the main tagging guideline, and the fact that you can't tag a fully drawn out roundabout as traversable, there is now a need for using mini-roundabout in Australia. I agree that we seem to have some, as they're currently described. I'd like to see the justification for the view that we don't, so that we can reassess it. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Aligning steets
Stephen wrote there is now a need for using mini-roundabout in Australia. I always like to simplify things (maybe too much sometimes). How about If the approaches to the intersection/junction have roundabout signs then it is a roundabout, roundabout laws apply and we should tag it junction=roundabout and draw it as such with four or more nodes. If the intersection/junction does not have a roundabout sign, then it is not a roundabout, roundabout laws do not apply and, despite any paint or slight raisings we should tag it as a single node intersection. This does leave, once again, the mini-roundabout tag out in the cold (with the rundlehound) Right - that was way too simple - I'm probably wrong. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] GPS accuracy
On 20/09/2012 3:49 PM, Brett Russell signalled: Been reading up on GPS accuracy and playing with averaging waypoints on the Garmin 62S and have realised that WAAS does not work outside the USA and for some units better to have it switched off. If I wrong in my understanding please let me know. I can be rather a precision freak but be nice to get thing right. Discovering the accuracy of a unit is easy. Find a convenient spot near your house and with your GPS record its position. Come back next day (or at least a few hours later) and do it again. Repeat daily until you are sick of it and you will then have a good idea of how accurate any particular observation is likely to be. No technical expertise required. The question of absolute accuracy is complex. Survey marks mostly were placed before the current modelling of the earth was developed. While these may now have GDA coordinates (typically about 100 mm different from WGS in Australia) there are complexities that arise (eg from continental drift and the instability of the earth's axis of rotation) which are significant variables. There are many assumptions in the modelling. WAAS also works in Europe and Japan. There is no likelihood of it being implemented in Australia as our population density is too low. Switch it off. If it is left switched on there is some risk that spurious signals from other systems may degrade the accuracy of your device. Regards, Peter -- There are no problems more difficult to overcome than those which are merely imagined. We never approach the truth in what we say unless that includes the expectation of being wrong ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Aligning steets
I'm not saying that a mini-roundabout isn't a roundabout, it is, and all the normal signs and laws apply. What it also is, however, is traversable. If you have a vehicle that cannot go around it, because it is too large, then you're allowed to go over it. I'd be just a happy to use a normal roundabout way, and mark it as traversable with traversable=yes. Traversable could have values like yes/no/semi (for those ones that have a traversable skirt but a raised centre plinth). However, when I suggested that on the talk list a while ago, it was met with great indifference. so we seem to be left with the only way to mark a traversable roundabout being to mark it as a mini-roundabout, which can only be a node. Stephen On 20 September 2012 22:12, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Stephen wrote there is now a need for using mini-roundabout in Australia. I always like to simplify things (maybe too much sometimes). How about If the approaches to the intersection/junction have roundabout signs then it is a roundabout, roundabout laws apply and we should tag it junction=roundabout and draw it as such with four or more nodes. If the intersection/junction does not have a roundabout sign, then it is not a roundabout, roundabout laws do not apply and, despite any paint or slight raisings we should tag it as a single node intersection. This does leave, once again, the mini-roundabout tag out in the cold (with the rundlehound) Right - that was way too simple - I'm probably wrong. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Aligning steets
Stephen wrote I'd be just a happy to use a normal roundabout way, and mark it as traversable with traversable=yes Yes - an excellent suggestion. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] GPS accuracy
On 20/09/12 22:27, Peter Hoban wrote: Discovering the accuracy of a unit is easy. Find a convenient spot near your house and with your GPS record its position. Come back next day (or at least a few hours later) and do it again. Repeat daily until you are sick of it and you will then have a good idea of how accurate any particular observation is likely to be. No technical expertise required. The question of absolute accuracy is complex. Survey marks mostly were placed before the current modelling of the earth was developed. While these may now have GDA coordinates (typically about 100 mm different from WGS in Australia) there are complexities that arise (eg from continental drift and the instability of the earth's axis of rotation) which are significant variables. There are many assumptions in the modelling. WAAS also works in Europe and Japan. There is no likelihood of it being implemented in Australia as our population density is too low. Switch it off. If it is left switched on there is some risk that spurious signals from other systems may degrade the accuracy of your device. I've been using a Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx for a number of years. Normally for logging GPS tracks by car for use in OSM, I use it in conjunction with an external antenna (mounted above the driver's seat so it's closer to the centre of the road). With a good view of the sky, this GPS unit usually claims its accuracy to be ± 3m, with one important exception. And that's when cornering. If I superimpose track logs from several days in JOSM, I do see incredible consistency in the tracks. The exception is in the corners, where there's distinct variation. The solution is to drive around corners more slowly (where safety considerations permit). Then the GPS seems more inclined to accept cornering as the reason for the deviation from going straight ahead (rather than its interpreting the change in direction as resulting from a noisy or degraded satellite signal instead). I've struck another situation where the GPS reports significant uncertainty about its position. That's when bushwalking with thick tree cover and especially with cliffs or hills to one or both sides. It's clear to me that the signal is weak, with echoes only making the situation worse. Here the GPS might report an accuracy in the order of ±15m, and superimposed logs confirm this variation. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] GPS accuracy
Hi all Interesting discussion and thanks for confirming that WAAS is not an option in Australia so I will switch it off. Subtle details like this get missed in various reviews and also means that USA and now likely European reviews with claims of accruacy need have factored in that WAAS might be enhancing accuracy that will not happen in Australia. Also now better placed to identify inexpert expert sales people. Point taken on absolute accurary considerations with survey marker location. My goal is pratical accuracy. By that, avoiding my GPS complaining with OSM that I am heading into oncomming traffic. The issue with that was the particular road was aligned to native Bing so was say five to ten metres out. If I can establish the correct alignment of Bing for the area then I can have the road in the correct place. Now of course if my GPS can not resolve to the necessary accuracy then I still will have the issue but that is between my GPS and OSM rather than OSM and the real position. I have found my Garmin 62s is remarkably consistent with traces as I have walked the same tracks now a few times and generally it is within 5 metres at least and more often than not within two metres. In the car it is readly aparent what side I am on with and out and back trips, until I reach a cutting, in that case the traces very rarely cross but do tend to broaden out. Courners do catch it out but then I have my recoding interval set to 10 metres as I am told that gives the best result for my unit. Now using aligned Bing to clean up and remove unnecessary points for roads but leaving more points in for finer detail for walking tracks as five metres off track can me rather painful scrub bash. My reading of various information suggests that the Garmin maps themselves, due to using 24 bit reference number, have at best a theortical accuracy of 2.5 metres so even with professional grade surveying the maps in the unit will not be better than 2.5 metres. Someone might have different or better information so more than happy to have this point challenged. All still very much a learning curve for me. Actually GPS accuracy needs to be remarkable with complicated intersections as often one lane out can mean a massive side trip. Spent a lot of time figuring out how to get to Ballarat from the Melboure Airport as for a Tasmanian we are not use to such massive intersections. I case where I should have been the navigator not the driver. Was pre OSM for me so was usuing Google Maps on the iPhone. Gradually working my way around Tassie by lake tracing and that is where I am understanding the challenges Bing gives you. Its image quality ranges from top class to murky but still great to have it as the alternative would be walking around every lake, tarn and pool. Anyway thanks for the feedback. Hopefullty it will result in better maps. Cheers Brett Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 06:23:13 +1000 From: snow...@gmx.com To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] GPS accuracy On 20/09/12 22:27, Peter Hoban wrote: Discovering the accuracy of a unit is easy. Find a convenient spot near your house and with your GPS record its position. Come back next day (or at least a few hours later) and do it again. Repeat daily until you are sick of it and you will then have a good idea of how accurate any particular observation is likely to be. No technical expertise required. The question of absolute accuracy is complex. Survey marks mostly were placed before the current modelling of the earth was developed. While these may now have GDA coordinates (typically about 100 mm different from WGS in Australia) there are complexities that arise (eg from continental drift and the instability of the earth's axis of rotation) which are significant variables. There are many assumptions in the modelling. WAAS also works in Europe and Japan. There is no likelihood of it being implemented in Australia as our population density is too low. Switch it off. If it is left switched on there is some risk that spurious signals from other systems may degrade the accuracy of your device. I've been using a Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx for a number of years. Normally for logging GPS tracks by car for use in OSM, I use it in conjunction with an external antenna (mounted above the driver's seat so it's closer to the centre of the road). With a good view of the sky, this GPS unit usually claims its accuracy to be ± 3m, with one important exception. And that's when cornering. If I superimpose track logs from several days in JOSM, I do see incredible consistency in the tracks. The exception is in the corners, where there's distinct variation. The solution is to drive around corners more slowly (where safety considerations permit). Then the GPS seems more inclined to accept cornering as the reason for the deviation from going straight ahead (rather than
Re: [talk-au] GPS accuracy
Hi all, On this topic -- for what it's worth I have written a JOSM plugin to help with GPS accuracy in the case of having multiple tracks covering the same . You can highlight a set of GPX tracks along a straight path (or taken from a fixed position) and it will a) average them all to find their geometric centre and b) find the direction of maximum variation, to find the likely direction of the path along which they were recorded. I hope to have it available within the next week or two. You should get an accuracy improvement factor of equal to or greater than the square root of the number of tracks. When you have dozens or hundreds of tracks on the same paths, as I do (logs from my runs around town), then it should be a great help in pinning down any offset in the imagery (and potentially, rotation, too). Russell ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-br] mapas do IBGE e JOSM/PicLayer
Massa, Arlindo! Depois vou contribuir com alguns arquivos. abraços, On 19-09-2012 17:43, Arlindo Pereira wrote: Criei o repositório no GitHub: https://github.com/nighto/calibracao-mapas-ibge Gerald (e demais), você pode colocar lá (ou me passar) os arquivos .cal referente aos arquivos que você já fez? []s 2012/9/19 George Silva georger.si...@gmail.com mailto:georger.si...@gmail.com Arlindo e demais... Geralmente fico só nos bizus na lista, mas não acho que seja o ideal duplicar a informação, portanto, aqui vai uma sugestã: Deixe que o IBGE se preocupe com o armazenamento dos dados por enquanto. Abra o repositório no github e faça um link através da wiki do git. É menos trabalhoso :D. Abraços 2012/9/19 Arlindo Pereira openstreet...@arlindopereira.com mailto:openstreet...@arlindopereira.com Wille e demais, que tal criarmos um repositório no GitHub com os mapas do IBGE e seus respectivos arquivos de calibração? []s 2012/9/18 Wille wi...@wille.blog.br mailto:wi...@wille.blog.br Olá, Gerald Tenho usado essa técnica, porém eu não sabia desse endereço novo dos mapas no site IBGE e não estava encontrando mais os mapas. Valeu por postar aqui! Muito bom também essa linha de comando do convert! On 18-09-2012 18:32, Gerald Weber wrote: Olá eu não sei vocês, mas eu sempre tive dificuldade em fazer uso dos mapas em pdf do IBGE (http://www.ibge.gov.br/mapas_ibge/bases_municipais.php). Uma solução que achei para isto foi usar um plugin do JOSM chamado PicLayer. Vou passar a receita que estou usando aqui, não sei se é do conhecimento de vocês. No JOSM, selecione editar/preferências e instale o plugin PicLayer. Baixe o mapa em pdf do seu interesse. Eu faço a conversão do pdf para jpg no linux da seguinte maneira (linha de comando) convert -density 300 mapa.pdf mapa.jpg o argumento -density 300 garante que as letras do mapa do IBGE continuem visíveis no JOSM. Se o mapa em pdf tiver mais de uma página ele geralmente cria os arquivos assim: mapa-0.jpg, mapa-1.jpg etc. O convert é um pacote do ImageMagic. No JOSM, posicione as coordenadas mais ou menos na região de onde seria o mapa, selecione a aba PicLayer e carrege o mapa.jpg. Agora vem a parte mais chatinha que é calibrar o mapa. Como os mapas do IBGE vem com as latitudes/longitudes dá para marcar os pontos e arrastá-los. Requer um pouquinho de prática, mas uma vez que está feito ele salva a calibração num arquivo mapa.jpg.cal e fica pronto. No site do PicLayer tem um tutorial de como isto é feito (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/PicLayer). Agora uma pergunta: a gente teria algum lugar onde pudessemos depositar os arquivos de calibração? Assim, se o arquivo já existe não seria necessário passar por este passo que é a parte mais trabalhosa. Os mapas do IBGE não são muito precisos, eu não os usaria para desenhar caminhos, mas eles são uma ajuda tremenda para identificar nomes de localidades, rios, serras etc. bom divertimento Gerald ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br -- George R. C. Silva Desenvolvimento em GIS http://geoprocessamento.net http://blog.geoprocessamento.net ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list
Re: [Talk-de] 3D-Mapping Doppelhaushälfte
Original-Nachricht Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] 3D-Mapping Doppelhaushälfte Datum: Wed Sep 19 2012 22:19:10 GMT+0200 Von: Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Am 19. September 2012 18:01 schrieb Lars Schimmer l.schim...@cgv.tugraz.at: 3. Frage: Woran hänge ich das roof:shape-Tag? An das ganze Haus? Dann kann ich die Farbe nicht unterscheiden. An die building:parts? Aber dann ist das Dach nicht durchgängig und entspricht nicht der Realität. An die parts. Wenn die anderen Daten stimmen (height, levels, roof), dann stehen die so docht beieinander, das man das nicht mehr unterscheiden kann. Auch ist ja mit dem gesamten Linienzug um das Objekt mit building=yes definiert, das es ein Gebäude ist. Wenn ich das richtig mitbekommen habe, dann geht es hier doch um _ein_ Gebäude mit Walmdach, aufgeteilt in 2 Einheiten. Wenn man nun jeder Hälfte ein Walmdach verpasst, wie weiss der Renderer dann, dass das nur _ein_ Dach ist? Japp, genau das ist das mein Hauptproblem. Denn ich würde jetzt davon ausgehen, dass der Renderer auf jede Hälfte ein Walmdach (kenne den Begriff nicht) setzt und dadurch würde das Dach in der Mitte einen Einschnitt haben... Ich habe das ganze bereits mal in JOSM mit dem Kendzie3D-Plugin probiert, aber da wird gar nichts weiter gerendert - kennt der keine building:part? Alles andere waren schon fast rhetorische Fragen, mit denen ich sicher gehen wollte, dass das so der Konsens ist. Viele Grüße, Constanze ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] 3D-Mapping Doppelhaushälfte
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-09-20 08:45, tumsi wrote: Wenn ich das richtig mitbekommen habe, dann geht es hier doch um _ein_ Gebäude mit Walmdach, aufgeteilt in 2 Einheiten. Wenn man nun jeder Hälfte ein Walmdach verpasst, wie weiss der Renderer dann, dass das nur _ein_ Dach ist? Japp, genau das ist das mein Hauptproblem. Denn ich würde jetzt davon ausgehen, dass der Renderer auf jede Hälfte ein Walmdach (kenne den Begriff nicht) setzt und dadurch würde das Dach in der Mitte einen Einschnitt haben... Ich habe das ganze bereits mal in JOSM mit dem Kendzie3D-Plugin probiert, aber da wird gar nichts weiter gerendert - kennt der keine building:part? Alles andere waren schon fast rhetorische Fragen, mit denen ich sicher gehen wollte, dass das so der Konsens ist. Der kennt den Tag schon. Und auch roof:shape=gabled (in diesem Fall wohl). Jedenfalls kennt er es bei den Gebäuden, die ich getaggt habe. Du kannst ja mal probieren, die roof:*=* Tags nur an das outer Polygon zu hängen, die Farbe der Hälften und so jedoch an die building:parts. Ob die das problemlos mitmachen. Viele Grüße, Constanze MfG, Lars Schimmer - -- - - TU Graz, Institut für ComputerGraphik WissensVisualisierung Tel: +43 316 873-5405 E-Mail: l.schim...@cgv.tugraz.at Fax: +43 316 873-5402 PGP-Key-ID: 0x4A9B1723 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlBavmsACgkQmWhuE0qbFyMtuwCeN2ftJXnpS0+CSG4aoHXQD1t4 lF4An2uid5bXCdt48WL32MrMXkC8y+wD =9CEd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] amtlicher BayernAtlas mit OSM-Layern
Hallo, letzten Freitag hat die Bayerische Vermessungsverwaltung das neue Internetportal BayernAtlas freigeschaltet. Als Referenz an unser Projekt gibt es zwei OSM-Layer mit Biergärten bzw. Picknickplätzen. http://www.bayernatlas.de/ http://vermessung.bayern.de/aktuell/archiv/723.html Getreu dem Motto Etwas geht immer schief wurden unsere Daten vom 13.07.2012 unter ODbL attributiert, obwohl zu diesem Zeitpunkt unsere Lizenzumstellung noch nicht abgeschlossen war. Dieses kleine Missgeschick wird in Kürze behoben. siehe auch: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=18308 Grüße Joachim PS: Ich hatte diese Nachricht letzte Woche bereits im Forum veröffentlicht, aber wurde gestern abend auf dem Stammtisch davon überzeugt, auch auf der Mailingliste aktiv zu werden. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] amtlicher BayernAtlas mit OSM-Layern
Joachim Kast osm-ml at dd1gj.de writes: letzten Freitag hat die Bayerische Vermessungsverwaltung das neue Internetportal BayernAtlas freigeschaltet. Als Referenz an unser Projekt gibt es zwei OSM-Layer mit Biergärten bzw. Picknickplätzen. Wow. Nicht schlecht. Ist zwar nur eine vergleichsweise einfache Anwendung von OSM-Daten, aber das das Wort OpenStreetMap mal auf einer Seite der Vermessungsverwaltung zu lesen sein wird, hätte ich nicht für möglich gehalten ;) Getreu dem Motto Etwas geht immer schief wurden unsere Daten vom 13.07.2012 unter ODbL attributiert, obwohl zu diesem Zeitpunkt unsere Lizenzumstellung noch nicht abgeschlossen war. Dieses kleine Missgeschick wird in Kürze behoben. Es handelt sich um eine Ausleitung von POIs. Rein technisch sollten die alle ODbL-Clean gewesen sein. PS: Ich hatte diese Nachricht letzte Woche bereits im Forum veröffentlicht, aber wurde gestern abend auf dem Stammtisch davon überzeugt, auch auf der Mailingliste aktiv zu werden. Gute Entscheidung. In dem Zusammenhang möchte ich dich, falls noch nicht bekannt, mal auf Gmane hinweisen: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.de Neben Webinterface (für unterwegs) und NNTP (für den Newsreader) gibt es dort auch noch weitere Möglichkeiten, um die Mailingliste zu lesen und auch zu beschreiben. Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] amtlicher BayernAtlas mit OSM-Layern
Am 20.09.2012 09:30, schrieb Manuel Reimer: Getreu dem Motto Etwas geht immer schief wurden unsere Daten vom 13.07.2012 unter ODbL attributiert, obwohl zu diesem Zeitpunkt unsere Lizenzumstellung noch nicht abgeschlossen war. Dieses kleine Missgeschick wird in Kürze behoben. Es handelt sich um eine Ausleitung von POIs. Rein technisch sollten die alle ODbL-Clean gewesen sein. Ne, weil die Daten sind noch vor der Zeit, als der Redaction-Bot los gerannt ist. Henning ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] amtlicher BayernAtlas mit OSM-Layern
Am 20.09.2012 09:02, schrieb Joachim Kast: letzten Freitag hat die Bayerische Vermessungsverwaltung das neue Internetportal BayernAtlas freigeschaltet. Als Referenz an unser Projekt gibt es zwei OSM-Layer mit Biergärten bzw. Picknickplätzen. Schönes Beispiel, ich habe das mal verlinkt auf http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSM_Internet_Links Getreu dem Motto Etwas geht immer schief wurden unsere Daten vom 13.07.2012 unter ODbL attributiert, obwohl zu diesem Zeitpunkt unsere Lizenzumstellung noch nicht abgeschlossen war. Dieses kleine Missgeschick wird in Kürze behoben. Ich hoffe mal, das heißt, sie werden auf die aktuellen ODbL-Daten aktualisieren und nicht etwa die Attributierung an die veralteten Daten anpassen... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Bahn-Fahrplan als offene Daten
Hallo, das wäre doch mal ein Anfang, um den öffentlichen Nahverkehr wirklich öffentlich zu machen. http://www.openpetition.de/petition/online/bahn-fahrplan-als-opendata-veroeffentlichen Gruß Burkhard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] amtlicher BayernAtlas mit OSM-Layern
schrieb Joachim Kast: http://www.bayernatlas.de/ http://vermessung.bayern.de/aktuell/archiv/723.html Hallo, was mir dabei so nebenbei auffällt ist das das Satellitenbildmaterial sehr aktuell und sehr detailiert ist. Kann man das als Hintergrund für JOSM einbinden? Zur Zeit benutze ich Bayern(2m), was aber deutlich schlechter ist. Gibt es die Bilder von bayernatlas.de für JOSM? Besten Dank Christian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] amtlicher BayernAtlas mit OSM-Layern
wwl usenet at schani.com writes: Hallo, was mir dabei so nebenbei auffällt ist das das Satellitenbildmaterial sehr aktuell und sehr detailiert ist. Kann man das als Hintergrund für JOSM einbinden? Ob man das kann, ist kaum relevant, weil du dann nicht davon abzeichnen dürftest. Zur Zeit benutze ich Bayern(2m), was aber deutlich schlechter ist. http://vermessung.bayern.de/opendata Nur die 2m-Bilder sind unter einer, für die OSM-Verwendung tauglichen, Lizenz verfügbar! Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] amtlicher BayernAtlas mit OSM-Layern
Kann man das als Hintergrund für JOSM einbinden? Leider nicht. Aus den Nutzungsbedingungen: Nicht erlaubt sind die Extraktion von Daten aus dem BayernAtlas und deren weitere Nutzung (z.B. Vervielfältigung, Speicherung, Veränderung oder die Integration in die Arbeitsumgebung des Nutzers sowie der Import und die Bearbeitung eigener Daten des Nutzers. Interessant zu Deiner Frage ist ein aktuelles Interview mit Herrn Püß, dem Vorsitzenden der AdV: http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/messenachrichten/intergeo_2012_open_data_traegt_kosten_202449.html Momentan wied hinter den Kulissen wohl noch um Geld gefeilscht. Es könnte sein, dass es zur INTERGEO erfreuliche Nachrichten aus einigen Bundesländern gibt. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] 3D Features von Gebäuden, weclhes Schema?
Hallo Lars, Lars Schimmer schrieb: Wir nehmen Wünsche für kleine Gebiete außerhalb von DE entgegen und rendern auch schon einige Fleckchen z.B. in den USA und Japan. Schreib dafür einfach Peda oder mir eine Mail! Am einfachsten ist es für uns, wenn gleich einige Zoom-13-Kachenummern dabei stehen. Bereich Graz ist in etwa: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.0682lon=15.4396zoom=13layers=M Ich weiß jetzt nicht genau, wie man die Kachelnummern findet, aber die png gehen von 4445/2877 bis 4449/2883. Hoffe das ist hilfreich. genau die Angabe die wir uns gewünscht haben ;) Willkommen Österreich: http://maps.osm2world.org/?zoom=13lat=47.02696lon=15.44598layers=B00TTFF Gruß, Peda -- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] amtlicher BayernAtlas mit OSM-Layern
schrieb Manuel Reimer: wwl usenet at schani.com writes: Hallo, was mir dabei so nebenbei auffällt ist das das Satellitenbildmaterial sehr aktuell und sehr detailiert ist. Kann man das als Hintergrund für JOSM einbinden? Ob man das kann, ist kaum relevant, weil du dann nicht davon abzeichnen dürftest. Zur Zeit benutze ich Bayern(2m), was aber deutlich schlechter ist. http://vermessung.bayern.de/opendata Nur die 2m-Bilder sind unter einer, für die OSM-Verwendung tauglichen, Lizenz verfügbar! OK verstehe. Schade Christian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] MapDust, Skobbler und die Community
Hallo Florian, Am Montag, 17. September 2012, 09:29:20 schrieb Florian Lohoff: ∙ ebenfalls seit über einem Jahr werden Fehlerberichte mit Standard-Text nicht mehr als solche gekennzeichnet. Das macht die Option Hide bugs with default text (die standardmäßig aktiviert ist) praktisch wirkungslos. Bugs mit default text schliesse ich ohne zu kommentieren. Wenn man das kontinuierlich macht gehts auch mit der fehlerrate. Richtig ist Das Problem ist, dass auch in Bugs mit Default-Text gelegentlich Fehler zu erkennen sind. Schönes Beispiel hierfür gerade gefunden: http://www.mapdust.com/detail/2929755 Seit dem 16.3.2009 (!) kann man auf der Theodor-Heuss-Straße in Ingolstadt (Hauptverkehrsachse) wegen einer falschen Abbiegerelation nicht mehr geradeaus über die Kreuzung. Eckhart ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Knight awards $575k to improve OpenStreetMap infrastructure
FYI: 575k$ sind doch eine beachtiche Summe an Geld, die zur Verbesserung innerhalb von OSM verwendet werden soll... Original-Nachricht Betreff: [OSM-talk] Knight awards $575k to improve OpenStreetMap infrastructure Datum: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:26:58 -0400 Von:Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com An: t...@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap t...@openstreetmap.org Hello everyone - I'm excited to announce that the Knight Foundation has awarded a grant of $575,000 to Development Seed and MapBox to improve OpenStreetMap infrastructure. Myself and my colleages from the Development Seed and MapBox team are looking forward to closely work with other OpenStreetMap community members to put this money to good use. The goal is to improve editing infrastructure to enable better and more focused editors, update openstreetmap.org with social features to allow better interaction around common tasks, and make it easier to access and use OpenStreetMap data. These three components together aim to allow a fast growing community to scale better. The community has already identified issues in these areas and begun to make massive improvements. We'll collaborate with existing efforts as much as possible and do all work in the open, on platforms like GitHub and producing exclusively open source code. These are broad brushstrokes for now, without much technical detail. Right now we're getting our house in order - we will follow up in the next weeks with more detailed thoughts on where we would like to go. In the meantime, fire away with questions here or feel free to get in touch directly under a...@mapbox.com. Links to announcements: http://mapbox.com/blog/knight-invests-openstreetmap/ http://www.knightfoundation.org/press-room/press-release/six-ventures-bring-data-public-winners-knight-news/ == About the Knight Foundation The Knight Foundation supports transformational projects in journalism, media, community and the arts. Knight has a strong track record in providing key funding to open source projects such as Document Cloud or Panda. Development Seed has worked with Knight in more than one instance before, noteably TileMill was launched on a Knight grant. - TileMill http://www.knightfoundation.org/grants/20094589/ - Panda http://www.knightfoundation.org/grants/20110660/ - DocumentCloud http://www.knightfoundation.org/grants/20110146/ Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Knight awards $575k to improve OpenStreetMap infrastructure
Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de wrote: FYI: 575k$ sind doch eine beachtiche Summe an Geld, die zur Verbesserung innerhalb von OSM verwendet werden soll... Original-Nachricht .. About the Knight Foundation ... gibt es auch einen Wikipedia Artikel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._and_James_L._Knight_Foundation ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] Amenity=animal_shelter e chiavi con valori multipli
2012/9/20 Alberto albertoferra...@fastwebnet.it: “animal_shelter:dog:adoption=yes” + “animal_shelter:dog:boarding=yes” + “animal_shelter:cat:adoption=yes” + “animal_shelter:cat:boarding=yes + “animal_shelter:rabbit:adoption=yes” + “animal_shelter:rabbit:boarding=yes OPPURE “animal_shelter:adoption=dog;cat;rabbit” + “animal_shelter:boarding=dog;cat;rabbit”? La seconda, perché con la prima possibilità stai mettendo degli oggetti ignoti (i nomi degli animali) a sinistra dell'uguale, nello spazio delle chiavi. Gli oggetti ignoti, o a crescita indefinita, nello schema OSM dovrebbero stare a destra dell'uguale. Dal punto di vista di un programma, è molto meglio sapere che deve cercare un set definito di chiavi (es animal_shelter:adoption oppure animal_shelter:boarding) e poi scoprire il relativo valore, piuttosto che dovere anche scoprire quale chiave leggere. Ciao ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Script per segnalazione edit al proprio lavoro
Marcello, Grazie per avermi invitato al tuo hangout. Sono favorevole alla tua proposta, lo ritengo uno strumento utilissimo (se non indispensabile). Metto in cc la lista perchè immagino interesserà tutti. Non escludo che, tra la miriade di servizi offerti agli osmers, ce ne sia già qualcuno che offre questa possibilità. Il punto è che IMHO questo servizio dovrebbe essere offerto da osm.org, per esempio impostandolo nel proprio profilo. Non so ancora se avrò la possibilità di partecipare all'hangout, il mio cell non lo permette ed a quell'ora non sono sicuro di essere in casa. Nel caso non prendessi parte, contami come favorevole per portare questa iniziativa all'attenzione della OSMF. Saluti /niubii/ ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] C'è qualcuno di Forlì?
per esaminare quest'area... http://www.mantellini.it/2012/09/20/mapperfavore/ ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] C'è qualcuno di Forlì?
Cesena... :). ma sono a disposizione Gianmario Mengozzi sent by GNexus Il giorno 20/set/2012 14:28, Davide Meloni emmed...@yahoo.it ha scritto: per esaminare quest'area... http://www.mantellini.it/2012/**09/20/mapperfavore/http://www.mantellini.it/2012/09/20/mapperfavore/ __**_ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ithttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] creare mappe osmand memoria
provando a creare delle mappe per osmand ho trovato i seguenti problemi fino a 300mg tutto ok e relativamente un tempo decente di creazione sopra i 500Mb di mappa rallentamenti, problemi di errori di memoria, log file in estensione di 10 gb o più e dalle 25 alle 30 ora per una mappa e non sempre va in porto come bisogna esattamente configurare il file di memoria per non avere problemi, qualcuno ha già fatto esperienza;) è un difetto di osmmaker? ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Aiuto su sviluppo per una tesi
Ciao, controllo il forum dai feed ed ho iniziato ad aiutare questa ragazza che sta facendo una tesi e vorrebbe utilizzare OSM per sviluppare una app per disabili. Le ho dato qualche link a wiki e ho proposto Osmand, ma le mie conoscenze si fermano qui in questo ambito.. :-) Le ho chiesto due righe su quello che vuole fare da riportarvi, ecco qui. L'obiettivo è creere questi percorsi dedicati a persone disabili e fare un layer dedicato alle persone con sedia a ruote(e quindi creare percorsi specifici che devono seguire in outdoor nell'università),un layer per persone non vedenti e volevo sapere se fosse possibile fare ciò(cioè fare questi layer)..dopo di sulla mappa mi dovrebbero apparire i percorsi e quando scarico la mappa su android vorrei sapere se è possiible visualizzare i percorsi per persone con sedie a ruote e quindi visualizzare il layer dedicato.Insomma questo sarebbe l'obiettivo. Se qualcuno la può aiutare, questo è il suo account http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lorella Ciao, Stefano ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto su sviluppo per una tesi
Suppongo che sia a conoscenza di wheelmap.org. Volker 2012/9/20 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com Ciao, controllo il forum dai feed ed ho iniziato ad aiutare questa ragazza che sta facendo una tesi e vorrebbe utilizzare OSM per sviluppare una app per disabili. Le ho dato qualche link a wiki e ho proposto Osmand, ma le mie conoscenze si fermano qui in questo ambito.. :-) Le ho chiesto due righe su quello che vuole fare da riportarvi, ecco qui. L'obiettivo è creere questi percorsi dedicati a persone disabili e fare un layer dedicato alle persone con sedia a ruote(e quindi creare percorsi specifici che devono seguire in outdoor nell'università),un layer per persone non vedenti e volevo sapere se fosse possibile fare ciò(cioè fare questi layer)..dopo di sulla mappa mi dovrebbero apparire i percorsi e quando scarico la mappa su android vorrei sapere se è possiible visualizzare i percorsi per persone con sedie a ruote e quindi visualizzare il layer dedicato.Insomma questo sarebbe l'obiettivo. Se qualcuno la può aiutare, questo è il suo account http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lorella Ciao, Stefano ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto su sviluppo per una tesi
Il giorno 20 settembre 2012 16:34, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com ha scritto: Suppongo che sia a conoscenza di wheelmap.org. Si, le ho linkato wheelmap e la pagina sull'accessibilità e OSM for the blind... Volker ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto su sviluppo per una tesi
Si,sono a conoscenza di wheelmap.org ma lì c'è solo la segnalazione della barriera Il 20 settembre 2012 16:35, sabas88 saba...@gmail.com ha scritto: Il giorno 20 settembre 2012 16:34, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com ha scritto: Suppongo che sia a conoscenza di wheelmap.org. Si, le ho linkato wheelmap e la pagina sull'accessibilità e OSM for the blind... Volker ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto su sviluppo per una tesi
Buon punto di partenza è http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accessibility Poi consiglio di vedere http://blog.wheelmap.org/en/contact-details/ che mi pare abbiano anche fatto anche un'app android specifica per caricare i dati su OSM. Gliele giro sul suo account. Alessandro Il giorno 20 settembre 2012 16:21, sabas88 saba...@gmail.com ha scritto: Ciao, controllo il forum dai feed ed ho iniziato ad aiutare questa ragazza che sta facendo una tesi e vorrebbe utilizzare OSM per sviluppare una app per disabili. Le ho dato qualche link a wiki e ho proposto Osmand, ma le mie conoscenze si fermano qui in questo ambito.. :-) Le ho chiesto due righe su quello che vuole fare da riportarvi, ecco qui. L'obiettivo è creere questi percorsi dedicati a persone disabili e fare un layer dedicato alle persone con sedia a ruote(e quindi creare percorsi specifici che devono seguire in outdoor nell'università),un layer per persone non vedenti e volevo sapere se fosse possibile fare ciò(cioè fare questi layer)..dopo di sulla mappa mi dovrebbero apparire i percorsi e quando scarico la mappa su android vorrei sapere se è possiible visualizzare i percorsi per persone con sedie a ruote e quindi visualizzare il layer dedicato.Insomma questo sarebbe l'obiettivo. Se qualcuno la può aiutare, questo è il suo account http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lorella Ciao, Stefano ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] C'è qualcuno di Forlì?
2012/9/20 Davide Meloni emmed...@yahoo.it per esaminare quest'area... http://www.mantellini.it/2012/**09/20/mapperfavore/http://www.mantellini.it/2012/09/20/mapperfavore/ Ma comunque fa un confronto Gmaps/Applemaps, OSM non c'entra per fortuna :) http://gizmodo.com/5944960/apple-maps-vs-google-maps-a-side-by-side-iphone-comparison Apple è in mezzo ad una shitstorm da appena rilasciato iOS6 ahahah! Stefano __**_ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ithttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Script per segnalazione edit al proprio lavoro
Ciao Francesco, a dire il vero ne ho sentito parlare tempo fa ma poi non ho visto evoluzioni... Simone mi ha indicato questo link http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosmcreatefeed.php ma non ho idea di come funziona. se qualcuno sa come funziona la notifica degli edit può spiegarci durante la videoconferenza : questo è il link: https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/chthbd6hrqsiuh3q9291cpc3n5k scrivete pure un messaggio sull'evento del link per proporre un'altra data / orario. Grazie Marcello Francesco Pelullo f.pelullo a gmail.com Gio 20 Set 2012 09:49:46 BST Messaggio precedente: [Talk-it] Amenity=animal_shelter e chiavi con valori multipli Prossimo messaggio: [Talk-it] C'è qualcuno di Forlì? Messaggi ordinati per: [ Data ] [ Thread ] [ Oggetto ] [ Autore ] Marcello, Grazie per avermi invitato al tuo hangout. Sono favorevole alla tua proposta, lo ritengo uno strumento utilissimo (se non indispensabile). Metto in cc la lista perchè immagino interesserà tutti. Non escludo che, tra la miriade di servizi offerti agli osmers, ce ne sia già qualcuno che offre questa possibilità. Il punto è che IMHO questo servizio dovrebbe essere offerto da osm.org, per esempio impostandolo nel proprio profilo. Non so ancora se avrò la possibilità di partecipare all'hangout, il mio cell non lo permette ed a quell'ora non sono sicuro di essere in casa. Nel caso non prendessi parte, contami come favorevole per portare questa iniziativa all'attenzione della OSMF. Saluti /niubii/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk- it/attachments/20120920/705fcf7f/attachment.html ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Work opportunity: render interactive maps
A contact, Daniel Cremin, is looking for someone to produce interactive web maps based on OSM data, displaying details of certain local organisations. If you do this kind of work, please feel free to contact him on i...@civicolive.com or @CivicoDaniel -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
