Re: [talk-ph] Missing Maps Project

2014-10-23 Per discussione Nick Brown
Count me in. I'll also be in Manila first two weeks of November.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Leonard,

 Sounds like a good idea. I'm taking this a little slowly because we're
 also still socializing with our ARC program team here. I'm in Manila right
 now but down to Tacloban on Friday. Perhaps I could be in Manila in early
 November and meet folks then? Stay tuned.


 Cheers,
 Robert



 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Leonard Soriano banito_pi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:

 Dear Robert,

 I am also interested in this project. Perhaps if you are here in Manila
 next month it would be good to organize a meet up where you could share and
 explain possible collaboration work with OSM-PH.

 Cheers,

 --bunny


   On Saturday, 18 October 2014, 3:27, Eugene Alvin Villar 
 sea...@gmail.com wrote:


 Hi Robert,

 There is a planned project to complete the basic map of the province of
 Bohol. Unlike Cebu, Iloilo, Leyte, and Negros Occidental, more than half of
 Bohol still doesn't have readily available satellite imagery which can help
 with completing the map so either we try to procure imagery for the
 province or use the old-fashioned method of collecting GPS tracks. There
 was a huge earthquake almost exactly a year ago in Bohol and a fairly
 complete map would have been very useful back then.

 ~Eugene

 On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Eugene*,*

 Fantastic! We think that all three phases of Missing Maps would work in
 the Philippines, though the exact arrangement would depend on the site(s).
 There are a lot of people here in America who would like to contribute
 via digitization and we want to be open to that. But the real impressive
 work will always happen in the field and in the classroom afterwards when
 we digitize. To the extent possible we want to do as much of our work out
 of the Philippines as we can.

 I'll be back in the Philippines later this month and would be delighted
 to speak more with you all about potential opportunities. We're still
 lining up funding and hence can't make any promises yet, but we're very
 hopeful.

 Best,
 Robert

 On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Robert,
 I'm interested in bringing Missing Maps here in the Philippines. What
 phase of the project do you think would be best done here? If I understand
 correctly, the Missing Maps project can have 3 phases: an initial
 digitization of satellite imagery, then on-the-field data collection
 (names, etc.), then finally inputting the collected data.
 ~Eugene
  Hi Jim *et al*,

 I work in GIS for the American Red Cross. We're one of the founding
 agencies behind Missing Maps and are working with the Philippines Red Cross
 on recovery programs for Typhoon Yolanda. We'd be interested in working
 with OSM-PH on Missing Maps collaboations here if there's any interest on
 your side. We really like the idea of partnering with local OSM communities
 and y'all have really built a good one here.

 Any takers?

 Best,
 Robert Banick

 On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Jim Morgan j...@datalude.com wrote:

 Saw this in the Guardian and thought I'd share it

 http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/oct/06/missing-
 maps-human-genome-project-unmapped-cities

 Jim

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Re: [talk-ph] Missing Maps Project

2014-10-23 Per discussione Arnoud Keizer
Hi Eugene,

Happy to join if you meet in Manilla regarding this. I'm in town until
November 12.
Will be very useful to complete Bohol's OSM, as currently I'm advising a
watershed commission in the Eastern part of Bohol. Because of this I
started mapping this part of the island in August. Together with project
NOAH I also did several OSM hands-on workshops with LGU's, youth volunteers
and Bohol Island State University. I hope this will lead to some mapping
activities through local people in the next months.
Since August more detailed satellite images have become available for this
specific area. On-screen mapping is possible for almost the whole watershed
(Carood river).

Best wishes,

Arnoud Keizer
*VSO volunteer for project DREAM http://dream.upd.edu.ph *
Tel. *+63 9172405489*
E-mail. a.j.kei...@gmail.com
Blog. halo-halo.waarbenjij.nu

Let's use *OpenStreetMap* http://www.openstreetmap.org/, 'cause proper
maps can save lives!

2014-10-23 14:15 GMT+08:00 Nick Brown n...@nickbrown.ca:

 Count me in. I'll also be in Manila first two weeks of November.

 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Leonard,

 Sounds like a good idea. I'm taking this a little slowly because we're
 also still socializing with our ARC program team here. I'm in Manila right
 now but down to Tacloban on Friday. Perhaps I could be in Manila in early
 November and meet folks then? Stay tuned.


 Cheers,
 Robert



 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Leonard Soriano banito_pi...@yahoo.com
  wrote:

 Dear Robert,

 I am also interested in this project. Perhaps if you are here in Manila
 next month it would be good to organize a meet up where you could share and
 explain possible collaboration work with OSM-PH.

 Cheers,

 --bunny


   On Saturday, 18 October 2014, 3:27, Eugene Alvin Villar 
 sea...@gmail.com wrote:


 Hi Robert,

 There is a planned project to complete the basic map of the province of
 Bohol. Unlike Cebu, Iloilo, Leyte, and Negros Occidental, more than half of
 Bohol still doesn't have readily available satellite imagery which can help
 with completing the map so either we try to procure imagery for the
 province or use the old-fashioned method of collecting GPS tracks. There
 was a huge earthquake almost exactly a year ago in Bohol and a fairly
 complete map would have been very useful back then.

 ~Eugene

 On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Eugene*,*

 Fantastic! We think that all three phases of Missing Maps would work in
 the Philippines, though the exact arrangement would depend on the site(s).
 There are a lot of people here in America who would like to contribute
 via digitization and we want to be open to that. But the real impressive
 work will always happen in the field and in the classroom afterwards when
 we digitize. To the extent possible we want to do as much of our work out
 of the Philippines as we can.

 I'll be back in the Philippines later this month and would be delighted
 to speak more with you all about potential opportunities. We're still
 lining up funding and hence can't make any promises yet, but we're very
 hopeful.

 Best,
 Robert

 On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Robert,
 I'm interested in bringing Missing Maps here in the Philippines. What
 phase of the project do you think would be best done here? If I understand
 correctly, the Missing Maps project can have 3 phases: an initial
 digitization of satellite imagery, then on-the-field data collection
 (names, etc.), then finally inputting the collected data.
 ~Eugene
  Hi Jim *et al*,

 I work in GIS for the American Red Cross. We're one of the founding
 agencies behind Missing Maps and are working with the Philippines Red Cross
 on recovery programs for Typhoon Yolanda. We'd be interested in working
 with OSM-PH on Missing Maps collaboations here if there's any interest on
 your side. We really like the idea of partnering with local OSM communities
 and y'all have really built a good one here.

 Any takers?

 Best,
 Robert Banick

 On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Jim Morgan j...@datalude.com wrote:

 Saw this in the Guardian and thought I'd share it

 http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/oct/06/missing-
 maps-human-genome-project-unmapped-cities

 Jim

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Re: [talk-ph] [HOT] Eu Aid Volunteers and OSM

2014-10-23 Per discussione maning sambale
Thanks for this article jorieke.
Indeed Project NOAH is Ph govt's major effort to produce accurate hazard
maps for the whole country. Osm complements these efforts as a major source
of exposure data. We already trained some of noah's young scientists on how
to edit/use osm data.

Maning Sambale (mobile)
On Oct 23, 2014 3:04 AM, Jorieke Vyncke jorieke.vyn...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 As former Eu Aid Volunteer
 http://ec.europa.eu/echo/en/what/humanitarian-aid/eu-aid-volunteers for
 the Eurosha http://hot.openstreetmap.org/projects/eurosha_0project
 (where more then 20 european and african volunteers were deployed in four
 different countries in Africa to mainly promote and train local people on
 OpenStreetMap) I'm happy to see the Eurpean commision keeps on supporting
 the humanitarian use of OpenStreetMap through the Eu Aid Volunteer program!

 I came across a nice article about mapping in the Philippines I wanted to
 share with you. Here it is:
 http://ec.europa.eu/echo/en/field-blogs/stories/eu-aid-volunteer-uses-digital-mapping-help-prepare-disasters-phlippines

 Best,

 Jorieke




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Re: [talk-ph] [HOT] Eu Aid Volunteers and OSM

2014-10-23 Per discussione Eugene Alvin Villar
It seems the article is missing from the European Commission website so
here's a mirror:
http://reliefweb.int/report/philippines/eu-aid-volunteer-uses-digital-mapping-help-prepare-disasters-phlippines

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:50 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Thanks for this article jorieke.
 Indeed Project NOAH is Ph govt's major effort to produce accurate hazard
 maps for the whole country. Osm complements these efforts as a major source
 of exposure data. We already trained some of noah's young scientists on how
 to edit/use osm data.

 Maning Sambale (mobile)
 On Oct 23, 2014 3:04 AM, Jorieke Vyncke jorieke.vyn...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 As former Eu Aid Volunteer
 http://ec.europa.eu/echo/en/what/humanitarian-aid/eu-aid-volunteers
 for the Eurosha http://hot.openstreetmap.org/projects/eurosha_0project
 (where more then 20 european and african volunteers were deployed in four
 different countries in Africa to mainly promote and train local people on
 OpenStreetMap) I'm happy to see the Eurpean commision keeps on supporting
 the humanitarian use of OpenStreetMap through the Eu Aid Volunteer program!

 I came across a nice article about mapping in the Philippines I wanted to
 share with you. Here it is:
 http://ec.europa.eu/echo/en/field-blogs/stories/eu-aid-volunteer-uses-digital-mapping-help-prepare-disasters-phlippines

 Best,

 Jorieke




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
Een allegaartje van antwoorden en opmerkingen:

- Ja, dit is een import (je kopieert data van een andere databank zonder
survey) en dus moet je voldoen aan de import procedure. Deze moet dus
beschreven worden en voorgelegd worden aan de import lijst. Een van de
voorwaarden is een specifieke account..Je mag dus nu feitelijk nog geen
data overnemen via de tool, omdat de procedure nog niet is goedgekeurd. Ik
vraag me wel af in hoeverre deze werkwijze tegemoet komt aan de
vragen/eisen die er met de vorige manier opdoken.
- Ik heb Chrome gebruikt (te lui om ook Firefox te installeren) en hoopte
dat dat ook zou werken. Sander, Welke vieze trucks heb je gebruikt omdat
het enkel op Firefox zou werken ? (grapje  :-)  Eerst met 2840 (Rumst),
daarna met de A-straten (10 of zo), dan met 1 straat. Kreeg geen resultaat.
Zal later nog wel eens met Firefox proberen
- Als je geen initiële survey doet, hoe weet je dan of de nummers in AGIV
Crab juist zijn ? Ik wil daar niet vanuit gaan, heb al een paar problemen
gezien. Ook ontbreken er soms nummer (niet alleen nieuwbouw). Als je nu de
nummers gewoon overneemt, zonder controle, gaan die fouten er maar heel
langzaam uitgaan. Waar geven we de voorkeur aan: geen data of data met ??
fouten. Ik heb er nog steeds geen zicht op hoe goed AGIV Crab is. 5% fouten
? meer ? minder ? Dit is volgens mij een van de vragen van de import
mailing list.
- Het kadaster is volgens mij niet rechtsgeldig (zie bv
http://bouwinfo.be/forum/threads/136644-buurman-zet-afsluiting-1-5m-over-de-scheidingslijn/page2
)
- Het is nu de bedoeling dat de gemeenten de huizen gaan intekenen (meen ik
begrepen te hebben van Gilbert). Volgens zijn contact persoon tekenen zij
ook de huizen in vanaf de luchtfoto's. Moeten we daar niet nog eens
contacten leggen, een presentatie geven ?
- Waarvoor wil je de gegevens van de gebouwen tekenen ? Hoe groot mag de
foutenmarge zijn ? Een dakgoot is volgens mij niet meer dan 1 of 2 pixels.
Wat is het fouten percentage als je die volgt ? Het perspectief geeft een
grotere fout. Ik wil best meewerken aan de beste kaart, maar gaat het
volgen van de dakgoot de kwaliteit van de kaart zodanig naar beneden halen
dat ze niet meer bruikbaar is voor je toepassing ?
- Wat is het nut om een huisnummer op de voordeur van een privé woning te
zetten ? Voor deur naar deur routering voor slechtzienden ? Maar dan moet
het ook wel echt juist zijn. Een meter of 2 naar rechts of links helpt dan
ook niet. Bij grote gebouwen (bedrijven, of evenementshallen) kan ik er nog
inkomen, maar dan moet je ook entrance=... erbij zetten. Een huisnummer bij
de deur plaatsen is enkel nodig indien er verschillende huisnummers in een
gebouw zijn met elk een eigen ingang. En dat kan je enkel weten door een
survey.
- Zijn huisnummers niet belangrijker voor autonavigatie dan de gebouwen ?

- oh ja, ook nog een +1 voor Glenn's antwoord i.vm. met al dan niet
overtekenen van GRB kaart, de mogelijke easter eggs en zijn standpunt dat
als alles correct is de 2 kaarten toch gelijk zouden moeten zijn.

met vriendelijke groeten

m




2014-10-23 0:15 GMT+02:00 Thomas o...@aptum.nl:

  Ik heb nu de laatste variant van de website van Sander even snel
 uitgeprobeerd; een dikke twee uur geleden werkte alles prima, maar het
 laatste uur krijg ik steeds een 400: bad-request van JOSM terug op het
 request vanaf het js-script, met daarbij “no command specified” (ongeacht
 welke van de 4 sets per straat ik gebruik). OSM-data inladen via de
 straatnaam werkt perfect. Het vergelijk met OSM werkt wel perfect, alleen
 het inladen in JOSM gaat dus fout. Wissen van de cache heeft geen effect
 (Firefox 33).

 Uit een aantal snelle eerste vergelijkingen lijken in mijn regio
 (Oostende) vrijwel alle adresposities zéér mooi uit te lijnen op het midden
 van de gebouwen op de AGIV-luchtfoto. Alle reeds gemaakte opmerkingen over
 afwijkende positionering zal volgens mij vooral gelden voor de meer
 plattelandsgemeenten. Ik moet het nog even goed bekijken. In elk geval voor
 de woonwijken in Oostende zou ik de adrespunten zeer vlot kunnen verwerken
 en als punt importeren, als we het eens zouden zijn dat dat de nu de beste
 aanpak is.

 Ik ben het zeker eens met het feit dat de gebouw-contouren hebben veel
 'rijker' is voor de kaart dan puur de adrespositie. Toch vind ik dat die
 adrespositie op zichzelf waarde heeft. Volgens alle richtlijnen van OSM
 zijn adrespunten, naar mijn idee, zeker de moeite waard, ook al zijn de
 bijbehorende gebouwen nog niet ingetekend. Dat die gebouwen eigenlijk
 belangrijker zijn dan de nummers vind ik een terechte opmerking, maar we
 hebben niet de beschikking over die gegevens. Daarnaast blijf ik bij mijn
 eerdere standpunt dat alle gebouwen intekenen zeer veel werk is, vrij
 onnauwkeurig door perspectiefvertekening en schaduwwerking en buitengewoon
 frustrerend als over een paar maand de GRB-data alsnog open zou worden.
 Ikzelf zie heel vaak af van het intekenen van gebouwen vanaf de luchtfoto
 omwille van 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM memory eater

2014-10-23 Per discussione Glenn Plas
Onder Ubuntu zit de cache folder in je home directory.  standaard install :

glenn@slicky:~/.josm-latest/cache$

Daar staat subdir wms bij mij.

Glenn


On 22-10-14 19:51, Verhoeven Fr wrote:
 Men kan de cache folder wijzigen van TMS, voor WMS vind ik niets, ook
 niet in de nieuwe JOSM versie van vandaag.
 Na een remove en install van de nieuwe versie van JOSM in Ubuntu is de
 cache inhoud niet veranderd.
 Voor mij is dat geen echt probleem meer, maar dat is wel een probleem
 als ik iemand aanzet om te mappen  met  JOSM  en dien geen
 systeembeheerder of kenner is.
 
 Groeten
 
 
 
 Le 22/10/14 18:06, Marc Gemis a écrit :
 je kan de default locatie blijkbaar wijzigen. Meer info in
 http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248

 Ik herinner me vaag dat Gilbert dit vorig jaar al eens heeft
 aangehaald. Er was toen ook een ticket geopend bij JOSM dacht ik, maar
 dus nog zonder succes.
 -- 
 One can change the default location of the cache, see
 http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248
 Wasn't there some discussion about this last year. Didn't somebody
 open a ticket ?

 groeten

 m

 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Glenn Plas
De problemen met Chrome zijn voorbij, Sander heeft de fix gemaakt en nu
werkt het prima voor mij vanmorgend.

Probeer nog eens!

Glenn

 - Ik heb Chrome gebruikt (te lui om ook Firefox te installeren) en
 hoopte dat dat ook zou werken. Sander, Welke vieze trucks heb je
 gebruikt omdat het enkel op Firefox zou werken ? (grapje  :-)  Eerst met

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jo
Ik heb gisterenavond een straat met een tiental huisnummers ingetekend in
Drogenbos. Het probleem dat ik dan echter heb, is dat op de
AGIV-luchtfoto's zoveel detail te zien is, dat dat ook weer een changeset
met 250 objecten geworden is... Maar dan staan alle opritten, parkings e.d.
er ook meteen bij. (Het waren appartementen en bedrijfsgebouwen.
Privéopritten teken ik enkel nog in als ze bijzonder lang zijn. Life is too
short)

Vanuit Firefox geen problemen gehad met de tool. Natuurlijk wel eerst nog
even josm-latest moeten gaan afhalen.

Je kan de building tools plugin zo instellen, dat als je een gebouw over
een adresnode heen tekent, de adresinformatie meteen wordt overgezet naar
de contour.

Wat de precisie betreft, zorg ik gewoonlijk enkel dat de hoeken recht zijn
en als het er zo uitziet, dat de gebouwen op elkaar uitgelijnd staan.
Hiertoe teken ik dan een extra rechthoek ertussenin, alles selecteren
(eventueel Selection/All connected ways), dan q. En dan die rechthoek weer
weg, natuurlijk. Dat doe ik ook voor bushokjes, als er 2 of meerdere naast
elkaar staan. Ik denk niet dat het op 15-30cm aankomt, maar ik vind het
resultaat wel mooier als dingen uitgelijnd zijn. (Zonder de werkelijkheid
geweld aan te doen, natuurlijk. Als het scheef is, komt het ook scheef op
de kaart).

Verder heb ik ontdekt dat de cirkelfunctie verbeterd werd. De nodes worden
nu gedistribueerd en je kan ook 'o' gebruiken op een boog. Het hoeft dus
geen volledige cirkel te zijn. Ik ben met tramsporen bezig in Brussel en
daar komt dat dus nog wel eens van pas. Maar ook voor ronde punten is het
resultaat beter als de knopen gelijkmatig verdeeld worden.

Verder is er iets aangepast aan JOSM, waardoor 1-clik presets niet meer
werkten. De oplossing is in de definitie van de presets geen label te
gebruiken. Dan werken ze weer als handige knoppen op m'n werkbalk. Zonder
die aanpassing kwam er steeds een dialoogvenster, dat ik dan honderden
keren per dag moest wegklikken...

Wat de adresimport betreft. Ik zal wel af en toe hier en daar 's een straat
doen, maar ik ben tegenwoordig toch vooral met openbaar vervoer bezig.

mvg,

Jo


Op 23 oktober 2014 09:04 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 De problemen met Chrome zijn voorbij, Sander heeft de fix gemaakt en nu
 werkt het prima voor mij vanmorgend.

 Probeer nog eens!

 Glenn

  - Ik heb Chrome gebruikt (te lui om ook Firefox te installeren) en
  hoopte dat dat ook zou werken. Sander, Welke vieze trucks heb je
  gebruikt omdat het enkel op Firefox zou werken ? (grapje  :-)  Eerst met

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Ben Abelshausen
Hey Marc,

2014-10-23 8:29 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 - Het is nu de bedoeling dat de gemeenten de huizen gaan intekenen (meen
 ik begrepen te hebben van Gilbert). Volgens zijn contact persoon tekenen
 zij ook de huizen in vanaf de luchtfoto's. Moeten we daar niet nog eens
 contacten leggen, een presentatie geven ?


Dit klopt, binnen het AGIV is dat ook gangbaar om gebouwen ook gewoon in te
tekenen vanaf de orthophoto's en trouwens ook positionering van adressen
dacht ik. Er zijn wel 2 gebouwenregisters binnen AGIV dacht ik dus ik weet
niet of dat voor allebei zo is. Staar je in ieder geval niet blind op de
kwaliteit van het CRAB, de werkwijze is niet zo héél verschillend tov die
van ons.

Veel informatie in deze email thread, ik zal int weekend eens proberen
alles door te nemen! ;-)

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
2014-10-23 10:18 GMT+02:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com:

 Nog 1 opmerking. Ik kan niet overal persoonlijk gaan surveyen, vooral dan
 in verband met de bushaltes. We hebben tegenwoordig echter een Notessysteem
 dat degelijk werkt. Als er ergens onzekerheid over een adres is, lijkt het
 mij het beste om een Note toe te voegen en op termijn zal iemand met een
 mobiel toestel dat dan wel eens zien en uitklaren. Die Notes worden
 alleszins wel bekeken. Het enige probleem dat ik ermee zie, is dat het zo
 lastig is om ze te filteren, of voor jezelf als 'wontfix' te markeren.


Dit doe ik ook als ik met de rijstroken bezig ben. Af en doe zie je
verouderde situaties of plaatsen waarvan ik denk dat er een afslagbeperking
moet komen. Zo heeft user JoL al een paar verbeteringen kunnen aanbrengen.

Je truck met de building tool werkt IMHO enkel voor losstaande gebouwen,
niet voor half-open of rijwoningen. Je kan dan wel 2 gebouwen tekenen en
die dan aan elkaar plakken maar dan ben je weer langer bezig.
Ik begin nu dikwijls met 1 huis, en via de extrude tool voeg ik de
aanpalende huizen toe (met rechte hoeken). Daarna de housenumber tool
erover (select - command K) en dan het volgende huis (select - command-K )
  --- CTRL-K voor Windows.


mvg

m
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Glenn Plas
Vergeet Q niet om mooie vierkante buildings te maken.

Glenn


On 23-10-14 10:44, Marc Gemis wrote:
 
 2014-10-23 10:18 GMT+02:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com
 mailto:winfi...@gmail.com:
 
 Nog 1 opmerking. Ik kan niet overal persoonlijk gaan surveyen,
 vooral dan in verband met de bushaltes. We hebben tegenwoordig
 echter een Notessysteem dat degelijk werkt. Als er ergens
 onzekerheid over een adres is, lijkt het mij het beste om een Note
 toe te voegen en op termijn zal iemand met een mobiel toestel dat
 dan wel eens zien en uitklaren. Die Notes worden alleszins wel
 bekeken. Het enige probleem dat ik ermee zie, is dat het zo lastig
 is om ze te filteren, of voor jezelf als 'wontfix' te markeren.
 
 
 Dit doe ik ook als ik met de rijstroken bezig ben. Af en doe zie je
 verouderde situaties of plaatsen waarvan ik denk dat er een
 afslagbeperking moet komen. Zo heeft user JoL al een paar verbeteringen
 kunnen aanbrengen.
 
 Je truck met de building tool werkt IMHO enkel voor losstaande gebouwen,
 niet voor half-open of rijwoningen. Je kan dan wel 2 gebouwen tekenen en
 die dan aan elkaar plakken maar dan ben je weer langer bezig.
 Ik begin nu dikwijls met 1 huis, en via de extrude tool voeg ik de
 aanpalende huizen toe (met rechte hoeken). Daarna de housenumber tool
 erover (select - command K) en dan het volgende huis (select - command-K
 )   --- CTRL-K voor Windows.
 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Verhoeven Fr

Hooi Sander,

Ik heb op een desktop onder Ubuntu http://sanderd17.github.io/import.htm 
http://sanderd17.github.io/import.html   uitgeprobeerd op 2400, *, 
vinkje, 10
De eerste kolom verscheen snel maar andere gegevens bleven hangen op de 
Kolkstraat, daarna niets meer.  Dit verschillende malen.


Sus
http://sanderd17.github.io/import.html
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Beginnersvraag: 2X open josm, uploaden sample.osm

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jo
Je moet al een computer met veel geheugen hebben om JOSM meerdere keren op
te starten en het is inderdaad nagenoeg nooit nodig.

De enige reden die ik kan bedenken, is van toen ik scriptjes aan het
schrijven/uittesten was die JOSM zouden kunnen laten crashen.

JOSM zelf is ondertussen veel robuuster en mijn scriptjes ook.

Oh de andere reden, maar die is ook weg dankzij Overpass, is als JOSM zeer
intensief bezig was met processing of downloaden van data.

Als je graag op weg geholpen wordt met JOSM, wil ik wel eens een Google
Hangout doen. Vanavond, of morgenavond. Gisterenavond eentje met Matthieu
gedaan, maar dat kan ook met meerdere mensen tegelijk natuurlijk. Gisteren
ging het nogal specifiek over fietsknooppuntennetwerken. Matthieu heeft er
een nieuw 'ontdekt' in Henegouwen/Picarde.

Heb jij specifieke interesses ivm data die je wilt toevoegen/bijwerken op
OSM, Frank?

Groeten,

Jo

Op 23 oktober 2014 11:04 schreef Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com:

 Dag,

 Had reeds vastgesteld dat ik bij gewoon mappen validatie fouten
 opmerkingen krijg bij uploaden.

 Vraag 1:
 Mag ik twee maal JOSM openen (conflicten?)

 Vraag 2:
 Heb oefen sessie met sample.osm gebruikt, uitgevoerd. Mag ik mijn
 wijzigingen uploaden ?
 Zou in de sample.osm dan eventueel die validatie fouten proberen te
 simuleren en daaruit leren begrijpen en verbeteren alvorens het in de real
 thing uit te voeren.

 Jakka


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
inderdaad, voor 2840 Rumst heb ik nu
Total 6046
Missing 1774  (29.34%)
Missing w/o pos 215 (4.15%)
Wrong 113 (1.87%)

bwa, zo weet een mens weer wat doen :-)


2014-10-23 9:04 GMT+02:00 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 De problemen met Chrome zijn voorbij, Sander heeft de fix gemaakt en nu
 werkt het prima voor mij vanmorgend.

 Probeer nog eens!

 Glenn

  - Ik heb Chrome gebruikt (te lui om ook Firefox te installeren) en
  hoopte dat dat ook zou werken. Sander, Welke vieze trucks heb je
  gebruikt omdat het enkel op Firefox zou werken ? (grapje  :-)  Eerst met

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Beginnersvraag: 2X open josm, uploaden sample.osm

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
sluit ik me bij aan.

als ik foto's gemaakt heb, zet ik ook nog een source_ref met een link naar
de fotogallerij op de changeset.
'k vind het wat overdreven om de individuele foto bij elk ding te plaatsen.
Hoewel me dat al een keer goed is bevallen omdat ik een firehydrant
verkeerd had getagged. Moest een waterreservoir zijn. Dankzij de
 bijgevoegde foto heeft iemand mij kunnen corrigeren.

m

2014-10-23 12:43 GMT+02:00 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 Zie ook dat wanneer je manuele validatie doet dat je geen way of zo
 geselecteerd hebt, want van tijd (bij mij toch) valideert hij enkel de
 selectie en moet je zo even op de zwarte achtergrond klikken voor je de
 validator manueel draait.

 Ik ben zware voorstander om steeds validatiefouten eruit te halen,
 n'importe vanwaar ze komen, van mijn voorganger of van mezelf.  Van tijd
 zijn er onschuldige bij, bv.  validatie van public transport relaties
 krijg ik steeds waarschuwingen van.

 Validatie van relaties moet je wat mee opletten, je zal bv een andere
 foutmelding krijgen wanneer je maar een deel van de child nodes hebt
 staan (incomplete members dus in engelstalige JOSM).

 Ik download dan ook de members eerst om zeker te zijn dat het onschuldig
 is.

 Errors MOET je wel verbeteren gewoon voor upload.   Conflicten kunnen
 alleen onstaan wanneer je een commit doet van je changeset en
 ondertussen is er een andere changeset die impact heeft op uw data.
 maw, iemand heeft iets gedownload + geupload terwijl je aan het editten
 bent.

 Vroeger maakt ik vaak huge changesets, daar ben ik van aan het
 terugkomen, nu maak ik kleintjes, dit heeft praktische voordelen voor de
 persoon die na (of tijdens) jouw werk langskomt maar ook voor jezelf.
 Altijd gemakkelijker om die terug te rollen.

 Voor de rest is er maar 1 ding dat me stoort en dat zijn geen goede of
 uitgebreide changeset comments, of voor eeuwig + 3 jaar dezelfde
 gebruiken, zoals TAA doet.  Dat heeft geen zin, geen nut en werkt zelfs
 averechts, dan nog liever niets.

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TAA/history

 Ik probeer ook steeds bronnen te vermelden zodat iemand die denkt dat ik
 verkeerd ben zelf kan zien vanwaar de mosterd kwam, hopelijk helpt dat
 hen om te overtuigen van 'mijn gelijk/ongelijk' en een betere beslissing
 te nemen.   Survey dates bv.

 Validatie is echt heel belangrijk voor cleanup.

 Glenn


 On 23-10-14 11:31, Sander Deryckere wrote:
 
 
  Op 23 oktober 2014 11:04 schreef Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com
  mailto:vdmfrank...@gmail.com:
 
  Dag,
 
  Had reeds vastgesteld dat ik bij gewoon mappen validatie fouten
  opmerkingen krijg bij uploaden.
 
  Vraag 1:
  Mag ik twee maal JOSM openen (conflicten?)
 
 
  Beter niet. Je kan in JOSM gewoon een nieuwe layer aanmaken (CTRL+N) en
  dan in die layer data downloaden, bewerken, uploaden, ... Je kan layers
  verbergen door op het oog-icoontje naast de layer te klikken.
 
  Het is dus nergens voor nodig om JOSM meerdere keren te openen.
 
 
  Vraag 2:
  Heb oefen sessie met sample.osm gebruikt, uitgevoerd. Mag ik mijn
  wijzigingen uploaden ?
  Zou in de sample.osm dan eventueel die validatie fouten proberen te
  simuleren en daaruit leren begrijpen en verbeteren alvorens het in
  de real thing uit te voeren.
 
  Jakka
 
  Als je op uploaden klikt, dan zal de validator eerst de data
  valideren. Zonder het te uploaden. Daarna krijg je de kans om commentaar
  in te geven. En pas daarna wordt de data echt naar de server verzonden.
 
  Dus die eerste stappen (tot het commentaar ingeven) kan je altijd
 uitvoeren.
 
  De OSM server zelf voert (bijna geen) validatie uit.
 
  Je kan trouwens ook de validator zelf doen werken, zonder op de upload
  knop te drukken. Zoek in de linker balk het validatie icoontje (blauwe
  V), als je daar op klikt, dan verschijnt het validatie venster in de
  rechter balk. Daar heb je dan knoppen om de data te valideren.
 
  Groeten,
  Sander
 
 
 
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[OSM-talk-be] Negeer dit bericht testen thunderbird

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jakka

Kan niet beantwoorden. Controleer nu of ik rechtstreeks kan posten


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Thomas
Bij mij werkt alles inmiddels weer prima. Mogelijk was het probleem aan 
mezelf te wijten en heb ik per ongeluk de niet-laatste variant van JOSM 
opgestart na een crash eerder gisteravond. Deze variant ging inderdaad 
niet goed om met het request vanuit de browser, zoals Sander al eerder 
signaleerde.


Over het intekenen van gebouwen via luchtfoto's. Het gaat mij inderdaad 
niet om die dakgoot van enkele centimeters maar om de 
perspectiefvertekening; dat gaat over meters. Zowel bij de luchtfoto van 
het AGIV als die van Bing geldt dat als als de betreffende locatie zich 
relatief ver van de loodlijn van de satelliet / vliegtuig bevond, er een 
aanzienlijke vertekening is (ondanks de orthorectificatie waarbij de 
vertekeningen door hoogteverschillen op het grondvlak weggewerkt worden).


Ik heb even een voorbeeldje gemaakt van een aantal huizen in 
Oostende:http://downloader.aptum.nl/ImageryOffset.jpg . In het rood 
aangegeven is de daklijn zoals 'men' (ik in elk geval) geneigd is in te 
tekenen. In het blauw de 'correcte' lijn door rekening te houden met het 
perspectief (ervan uitgaande dat de georefererentie 'nauwkeurig' is). 
Die rode lijn intekenen is vrij simpel. Die blauwe vind ik pure ellende, 
met name omdat de hoekpunten heel vaak verstopt liggen in het 
perspectief. In dit geval is de foto van linksonder genomen, aardig in 
lijn met de straat, waardoor de perspectiefvervorming hier enkel in de 
breedte van de huizen optreedt en niet in de diepte. Dit is dus absoluut 
geen extreem geval.


Omdat de daken niet even hoog komen, lijkt het alsof het ene huis dieper 
is dan het andere. Ik ken de situatie ter plaatse en dat is niet het 
geval. In dit geval zijn de Bing-beelden meer van loodrecht boven de 
locatie genomen. Daarmee is de perspectiefvertekening veel minder en 
passen de blauwe lijnen heel netjes over de daklijnen. Op de GRB-kaart 
zie je dat de blauwe lijn heel aardig klopt. Toch zou je op basis van de 
AGIV-foto het idee kunnen krijgen dat ze onnauwkeurig ingetekend zijn.


Het verschil tussen de blauwe en rode lijnen bedraagt in dit geval 
ongeveer 2,5m. Enerzijds is dat een beperkte fout, maar anderzijds kan 
dat wel voor miserie zorgen bij de CRAB-import. Zoals je op mijn 
voorbeeld al kunt zien, lijnen de adrespunten (de kleine witte 
cijfertjes) op het verkeerde dak uit. Ze liggen nog net niet in het 
naastgelegen rode perceel. In andere situaties kan dat wel het geval 
zijn. Wat mij betreft is dit zeker een aandachtspunt in de workflow, met 
name bij rijtjeshuizen. Het is ook de reden dat ik (zeker in mijn 
omgeving) een hekel heb aan het intekenen van gebouwen; het is zeer 
lastig om het enigszins nauwkeurig te doen.


Als probleem voor de import valt het overigens wel mee. De meeste 
bebouwing op OSM in België ontbreekt nog. Daarnaast zijn de gebouwen die 
wel ingetekend zijn meestal vrijstaande woningen. De bestaande 
problematiek is dus zeker nog te overzien. Het wordt volgens mij vooral 
een issue als bij de import van de CRAB-gegevens massaal ingetekend 
worden van de AGIV-luchtfoto zonder met dit effect rekening te houden. 
Ik twijfel er niet aan dat er dan heel wat CRAB-punten boven een 
anders-genummerd OSM-gebouw komen te vallen. Bij foutcontrole kan dat 
een probleem vormen, maar dat hangt natuurlijk af van hoe die controle 
ingebouwd wordt.


Groeten,
Thomas

Marc Gemis schreef op 23-10-2014 8:29:

Een allegaartje van antwoorden en opmerkingen:

- Ja, dit is een import (je kopieert data van een andere databank 
zonder survey) en dus moet je voldoen aan de import procedure. Deze 
moet dus beschreven worden en voorgelegd worden aan de import lijst. 
Een van de voorwaarden is een specifieke account..Je mag dus nu 
feitelijk nog geen data overnemen via de tool, omdat de procedure nog 
niet is goedgekeurd. Ik vraag me wel af in hoeverre deze werkwijze 
tegemoet komt aan de vragen/eisen die er met de vorige manier opdoken.
- Ik heb Chrome gebruikt (te lui om ook Firefox te installeren) en 
hoopte dat dat ook zou werken. Sander, Welke vieze trucks heb je 
gebruikt omdat het enkel op Firefox zou werken ? (grapje  :-)  Eerst 
met 2840 (Rumst), daarna met de A-straten (10 of zo), dan met 1 
straat. Kreeg geen resultaat. Zal later nog wel eens met Firefox proberen
- Als je geen initiële survey doet, hoe weet je dan of de nummers in 
AGIV Crab juist zijn ? Ik wil daar niet vanuit gaan, heb al een paar 
problemen gezien. Ook ontbreken er soms nummer (niet alleen 
nieuwbouw). Als je nu de nummers gewoon overneemt, zonder controle, 
gaan die fouten er maar heel langzaam uitgaan. Waar geven we de 
voorkeur aan: geen data of data met ?? fouten. Ik heb er nog steeds 
geen zicht op hoe goed AGIV Crab is. 5% fouten ? meer ? minder ? Dit 
is volgens mij een van de vragen van de import mailing list.
- Het kadaster is volgens mij niet rechtsgeldig (zie bv 
http://bouwinfo.be/forum/threads/136644-buurman-zet-afsluiting-1-5m-over-de-scheidingslijn/page2 
)
- Het is nu de bedoeling dat de 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
In zo'n geval probeer ik vooral naar de tuinafscheidingen te kijken. die
zijn veel lager en geven een minder grote afwijking

2014-10-23 13:56 GMT+02:00 Thomas o...@aptum.nl:

  Bij mij werkt alles inmiddels weer prima. Mogelijk was het probleem aan
 mezelf te wijten en heb ik per ongeluk de niet-laatste variant van JOSM
 opgestart na een crash eerder gisteravond. Deze variant ging inderdaad niet
 goed om met het request vanuit de browser, zoals Sander al eerder
 signaleerde.

 Over het intekenen van gebouwen via luchtfoto's. Het gaat mij inderdaad
 niet om die dakgoot van enkele centimeters maar om de
 perspectiefvertekening; dat gaat over meters. Zowel bij de luchtfoto van
 het AGIV als die van Bing geldt dat als als de betreffende locatie zich
 relatief ver van de loodlijn van de satelliet / vliegtuig bevond, er een
 aanzienlijke vertekening is (ondanks de orthorectificatie waarbij de
 vertekeningen door hoogteverschillen op het grondvlak weggewerkt worden).

 Ik heb even een voorbeeldje gemaakt van een aantal huizen in Oostende:
 http://downloader.aptum.nl/ImageryOffset.jpg . In het rood aangegeven is
 de daklijn zoals 'men' (ik in elk geval) geneigd is in te tekenen. In het
 blauw de 'correcte' lijn door rekening te houden met het perspectief (ervan
 uitgaande dat de georefererentie 'nauwkeurig' is). Die rode lijn intekenen
 is vrij simpel. Die blauwe vind ik pure ellende, met name omdat de
 hoekpunten heel vaak verstopt liggen in het perspectief. In dit geval is de
 foto van linksonder genomen, aardig in lijn met de straat, waardoor de
 perspectiefvervorming hier enkel in de breedte van de huizen optreedt en
 niet in de diepte. Dit is dus absoluut geen extreem geval.

 Omdat de daken niet even hoog komen, lijkt het alsof het ene huis dieper
 is dan het andere. Ik ken de situatie ter plaatse en dat is niet het geval.
 In dit geval zijn de Bing-beelden meer van loodrecht boven de locatie
 genomen. Daarmee is de perspectiefvertekening veel minder en passen de
 blauwe lijnen heel netjes over de daklijnen. Op de GRB-kaart zie je dat de
 blauwe lijn heel aardig klopt. Toch zou je op basis van de AGIV-foto het
 idee kunnen krijgen dat ze onnauwkeurig ingetekend zijn.

 Het verschil tussen de blauwe en rode lijnen bedraagt in dit geval
 ongeveer 2,5m. Enerzijds is dat een beperkte fout, maar anderzijds kan dat
 wel voor miserie zorgen bij de CRAB-import. Zoals je op mijn voorbeeld al
 kunt zien, lijnen de adrespunten (de kleine witte cijfertjes) op het
 verkeerde dak uit. Ze liggen nog net niet in het naastgelegen rode perceel.
 In andere situaties kan dat wel het geval zijn. Wat mij betreft is dit
 zeker een aandachtspunt in de workflow, met name bij rijtjeshuizen. Het is
 ook de reden dat ik (zeker in mijn omgeving) een hekel heb aan het
 intekenen van gebouwen; het is zeer lastig om het enigszins nauwkeurig te
 doen.

 Als probleem voor de import valt het overigens wel mee. De meeste
 bebouwing op OSM in België ontbreekt nog. Daarnaast zijn de gebouwen die
 wel ingetekend zijn meestal vrijstaande woningen. De bestaande problematiek
 is dus zeker nog te overzien. Het wordt volgens mij vooral een issue als
 bij de import van de CRAB-gegevens massaal ingetekend worden van de
 AGIV-luchtfoto zonder met dit effect rekening te houden. Ik twijfel er niet
 aan dat er dan heel wat CRAB-punten boven een anders-genummerd OSM-gebouw
 komen te vallen. Bij foutcontrole kan dat een probleem vormen, maar dat
 hangt natuurlijk af van hoe die controle ingebouwd wordt.

 Groeten,
 Thomas

 Marc Gemis schreef op 23-10-2014 8:29:

 Een allegaartje van antwoorden en opmerkingen:

  - Ja, dit is een import (je kopieert data van een andere databank zonder
 survey) en dus moet je voldoen aan de import procedure. Deze moet dus
 beschreven worden en voorgelegd worden aan de import lijst. Een van de
 voorwaarden is een specifieke account..Je mag dus nu feitelijk nog geen
 data overnemen via de tool, omdat de procedure nog niet is goedgekeurd. Ik
 vraag me wel af in hoeverre deze werkwijze tegemoet komt aan de
 vragen/eisen die er met de vorige manier opdoken.
 - Ik heb Chrome gebruikt (te lui om ook Firefox te installeren) en hoopte
 dat dat ook zou werken. Sander, Welke vieze trucks heb je gebruikt omdat
 het enkel op Firefox zou werken ? (grapje  :-)  Eerst met 2840 (Rumst),
 daarna met de A-straten (10 of zo), dan met 1 straat. Kreeg geen resultaat.
 Zal later nog wel eens met Firefox proberen
 - Als je geen initiële survey doet, hoe weet je dan of de nummers in AGIV
 Crab juist zijn ? Ik wil daar niet vanuit gaan, heb al een paar problemen
 gezien. Ook ontbreken er soms nummer (niet alleen nieuwbouw). Als je nu de
 nummers gewoon overneemt, zonder controle, gaan die fouten er maar heel
 langzaam uitgaan. Waar geven we de voorkeur aan: geen data of data met ??
 fouten. Ik heb er nog steeds geen zicht op hoe goed AGIV Crab is. 5% fouten
 ? meer ? minder ? Dit is volgens mij een van de vragen van de import
 mailing list.
 - Het 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Glenn Plas
Ha,

Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op azerty.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).

@Thomas, uw zorgen zijn gerechtvaardigd.  Er is een wiki pagina die dit
ook uitlegt hoe je ermee omgaat.  Maar het is een heel goed punt wel dat
je maakt, je moet erbij nadenken.  OSM zou zoveel fun niet zijn als het
enkel monkeywerk was natuurlijk.

Zie http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Roof_modelling

Glenn


On 23-10-14 13:53, Sander Deryckere wrote:
 
 
 Op 23 oktober 2014 11:52 schreef Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com
 mailto:sus...@gmail.com:
 
 Hooi Sander,
 
 Ik heb op een desktop onder Ubuntu 
 http://sanderd17.github.io/import.htm
 http://sanderd17.github.io/import.html   uitgeprobeerd op 2400, *,
 vinkje, 10
 De eerste kolom verscheen snel maar andere gegevens bleven hangen op
 de Kolkstraat, daarna niets meer.  Dit verschillende malen.
 
 Sus
 http://sanderd17.github.io/import.html 
 
 
 Interessant.
 
 Ik verwerk momenteel ook dubbele huisnummers. Zo zal 42-44 in OSM
 matchen met twee nodes 42 en 44 in CRAB. Daarvoor gebruik ik
 reguliere expressies (regex). Deze worden gemaakt van de data die in OSM
 aanwezig is.
 
 Maar in het geval van de kolkstraat, daar is er een huis met een wel
 heel eigenaardig huisnummer: http://osm.org/way/135153583
 
 Dit huis zorgde er voor dat mijn regex niet geldig was, waardoor het
 script weigerde verder te werken, en alles op loading... bleef staan.
 
 Nu moet dit opgelost zijn.
 
 Groeten,
 Sander
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Sander Deryckere
Op 23 oktober 2014 14:07 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 Ha,

 Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
 man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op azerty.


 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

 misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
 ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).


Die worden vermeld in de kolom wrong. Meestal gaat het in die kolom over
tikfouten van één of andere aard, maar het zou ook kunnen dat de CRAB data
gewoon verouderd of verkeerd is. Dus altijd opletten als je schijnbaar
geldige data ziet in die kolom. Over een huisnummer als é( moet je
natuurlijk niet twijfelen.

Momenteel heeft de Kolkstraat 1 wrong huisnummer.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Beginnersvraag: 2X open josm, uploaden sample.osm

2014-10-23 Per discussione André Pirard

  
  
On 2014-10-23 11:04, Jakka wrote :

Dag,
  
  
  Had reeds vastgesteld dat ik bij gewoon mappen validatie fouten
  opmerkingen krijg bij uploaden.
  
  
  Vraag 1:
  
  Mag ik twee maal JOSM openen (conflicten?)
  
  Had already found that I get errors when
uploading  comments by ordinary folders validation 

Question 1:. 
Can I open twice JOSM (conflicts?)

No more conflicts than when several contributors run JOSM on their
own systems.  However:

  the saved preferences will be those of the last closed JOSM
(preference changes made by the others will be lost)
  only the first instance listens for remote controls
  ? maybe more rarely experienced side effects

It's rarely needed to start a second instance because multiple
  layers (windows) can be opened.
  But sometimes you may want not to pollute a complicated, dormant
  job with several layers open and prefer to open a new JOSM for a
  quick job.
  Note that there is a "latest snapshot" JOSM package that installs
  as a second application using its own preference folder (~..josm)
  that is ideal for application tests.

Vraag
  2:
  
  Heb oefen sessie met sample.osm gebruikt, uitgevoerd. Mag ik mijn
  wijzigingen uploaden ?
  
  Zou in de sample.osm dan eventueel die validatie fouten proberen
  te simuleren en daaruit leren begrijpen en verbeteren alvorens het
  in de real thing uit te voeren.
  
   Question 2: 
Home Do practice session used sample.osm performed. Can I
upload my changes? Books Would the sample.osm than any
validation errors that try to simulate and from that
understanding and improvement before to perform. The real thing

Not really understood.


  

  André.

  




  

  

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  English
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
Sander,

is het mogelijk dat een straat met een accent in, je scriptje of de
html/JavaScript in de problemen brengt ?
2840 Rumst, werken de missing numbers tot aan de Seringenlaan, maar vanaf
's Herenbaan werkt het niet meer.

voor de straat laat hij iets totaal anders, voor de ontbrekende nummers
niets.
voor alle straten erna laat hij steeds datzelfde vreemde stuk in.

andere mogelijkheid van narigheid is dat deze straat op de grens van 2
gemeenten valt. Ze is trouwens niet te bekennen onder 2850 Boom als ik op
s* zoek.

Vandaar waarschijnlijk het groot aantal ontbrekende nummers, wat dus mijn
aanleiding was om hier eerst naar te kijken

veel debug plezier

m

2014-10-23 14:34 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com:



 Op 23 oktober 2014 14:07 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 Ha,

 Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
 man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op azerty.


 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

 misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
 ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).


 Die worden vermeld in de kolom wrong. Meestal gaat het in die kolom over
 tikfouten van één of andere aard, maar het zou ook kunnen dat de CRAB data
 gewoon verouderd of verkeerd is. Dus altijd opletten als je schijnbaar
 geldige data ziet in die kolom. Over een huisnummer als é( moet je
 natuurlijk niet twijfelen.

 Momenteel heeft de Kolkstraat 1 wrong huisnummer.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Sander Deryckere
Op 23 oktober 2014 17:47 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 Sander,

 is het mogelijk dat een straat met een accent in, je scriptje of de
 html/JavaScript in de problemen brengt ?
 2840 Rumst, werken de missing numbers tot aan de Seringenlaan, maar vanaf
 's Herenbaan werkt het niet meer.


Er waren inderdaad problemen met enkele quotes. Bedankt voor de melding. Nu
moet het werken.

Er is wel nog iets raar met die straat. Er is één van de punten die vlak
ten noorden van Parijs ligt. De eerste poging tot import had ook dergelijke
punten, maar ik vraag me af hoe het mogelijk is dat een geïsoleerd punt
daar komt te liggen.

Op de GRB basiskaart zie je ook dat nummer 98 niet aanwezig is. Terwijl het
tamelijk duidelijk is waar het moet liggen.

Volgens mij is dat een fout in CRAB.

(door die fout kan je ook de straat niet laden, aangezien de BBOX zowat
volledig Noord-Frankrijk omvat).


 voor de straat laat hij iets totaal anders, voor de ontbrekende nummers
 niets.
 voor alle straten erna laat hij steeds datzelfde vreemde stuk in.

 He, dat was een andere bug die ik net geïntroduceerd had :D


 andere mogelijkheid van narigheid is dat deze straat op de grens van 2
 gemeenten valt. Ze is trouwens niet te bekennen onder 2850 Boom als ik op
 s* zoek.


Moest je op 's* zoeken zou het moeten lukken (of zelfs '*). Ik ben van plan
dat zo te laten, sorteren op de eerste letters die er in voorkomen is één
ding, maar ook de speciale tekens weglaten bij een filter is iets
moeilijker (vooral omdat die filter ook gebruikt wordt door Overpass, die
sowieso rekening houdt met de ' aan het begin).



 Vandaar waarschijnlijk het groot aantal ontbrekende nummers, wat dus mijn
 aanleiding was om hier eerst naar te kijken

 veel debug plezier


De fout was enkel in de export functie. Dus die nummers zijn nog altijd
even hoog. Het probleem is dat de vergelijking (nog) geen associatedstreet
relatie ondersteunt. En eist dat er een addr:street tag is (aangezien dit
min-of-meer overeengekomen was tijdens de vorige discussie).

De tool aanpassen is mogelijk, maar zal toch ettelijke lijnen extra code
vragen (associatedstreet en addr:street zijn totaal verschillend van
concept).

Groeten,
Sander
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Verhoeven Fr

Sander,
De kolkstraat 25 is een fout van mij en is al verbeterdt.
Nu krijg ik de volledige lijst op de desktop Ubuntu. Maar wanneer ik op 
een van de getallen het schermke load in JOSM aanklik dat springt de 
pointer gewoon enkele regels verder en niets anders.

Moet JOSM dan gewoon openen ?

Op een Netbook onder Win8.1 krijg ik de 404  . :-(

Sus

Le 23/10/14 14:34, Sander Deryckere a écrit :



Op 23 oktober 2014 14:07 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be 
mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be:


Ha,

Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op
azerty.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).


Die worden vermeld in de kolom wrong. Meestal gaat het in die kolom 
over tikfouten van één of andere aard, maar het zou ook kunnen dat de 
CRAB data gewoon verouderd of verkeerd is. Dus altijd opletten als je 
schijnbaar geldige data ziet in die kolom. Over een huisnummer als é( 
moet je natuurlijk niet twijfelen.


Momenteel heeft de Kolkstraat 1 wrong huisnummer.




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Sander Deryckere
JOSM moet aan staan voordat je die links kan gebruiken (misschien moet ik
daar ook een popup voor maken, zoals op osm.org).

Op 23 oktober 2014 20:24 schreef Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com:

  Sander,
 De kolkstraat 25 is een fout van mij en is al verbeterdt.
 Nu krijg ik de volledige lijst op de desktop Ubuntu. Maar wanneer ik op
 een van de getallen het schermke load in JOSM aanklik dat springt de
 pointer gewoon enkele regels verder en niets anders.
 Moet JOSM dan gewoon openen ?

 Op een Netbook onder Win8.1 krijg ik de 404  . :-(

 Sus

 Le 23/10/14 14:34, Sander Deryckere a écrit :



 Op 23 oktober 2014 14:07 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 Ha,

 Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
 man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op azerty.


 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

 misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
 ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).


  Die worden vermeld in de kolom wrong. Meestal gaat het in die kolom
 over tikfouten van één of andere aard, maar het zou ook kunnen dat de CRAB
 data gewoon verouderd of verkeerd is. Dus altijd opletten als je schijnbaar
 geldige data ziet in die kolom. Over een huisnummer als é( moet je
 natuurlijk niet twijfelen.

  Momenteel heeft de Kolkstraat 1 wrong huisnummer.




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
Geen probleem voor de associatedStreet relatie, ik heb nu expliciet
addr:street opgezet
Dat was mijn oudere tagwijze, die ik op heel wat plaatsen al heb aangepast,
maar blijkbaar nog niet daar.

Nummer 98 staat er nog maar iets meer dan een jaar, dus best mogelijk dat
die nog niet in Crab staat. Gezien de kwaliteit van de rest van Crab in
Rumst  Boom is dat misschien niet verwonderlijk :-)

groeten

m

2014-10-23 18:32 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com:



 Op 23 oktober 2014 17:47 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 Sander,

 is het mogelijk dat een straat met een accent in, je scriptje of de
 html/JavaScript in de problemen brengt ?
 2840 Rumst, werken de missing numbers tot aan de Seringenlaan, maar vanaf
 's Herenbaan werkt het niet meer.


 Er waren inderdaad problemen met enkele quotes. Bedankt voor de melding.
 Nu moet het werken.

 Er is wel nog iets raar met die straat. Er is één van de punten die vlak
 ten noorden van Parijs ligt. De eerste poging tot import had ook dergelijke
 punten, maar ik vraag me af hoe het mogelijk is dat een geïsoleerd punt
 daar komt te liggen.

 Op de GRB basiskaart zie je ook dat nummer 98 niet aanwezig is. Terwijl
 het tamelijk duidelijk is waar het moet liggen.

 Volgens mij is dat een fout in CRAB.

 (door die fout kan je ook de straat niet laden, aangezien de BBOX zowat
 volledig Noord-Frankrijk omvat).


 voor de straat laat hij iets totaal anders, voor de ontbrekende nummers
 niets.
 voor alle straten erna laat hij steeds datzelfde vreemde stuk in.

 He, dat was een andere bug die ik net geïntroduceerd had :D


 andere mogelijkheid van narigheid is dat deze straat op de grens van 2
 gemeenten valt. Ze is trouwens niet te bekennen onder 2850 Boom als ik op
 s* zoek.


 Moest je op 's* zoeken zou het moeten lukken (of zelfs '*). Ik ben van
 plan dat zo te laten, sorteren op de eerste letters die er in voorkomen is
 één ding, maar ook de speciale tekens weglaten bij een filter is iets
 moeilijker (vooral omdat die filter ook gebruikt wordt door Overpass, die
 sowieso rekening houdt met de ' aan het begin).



 Vandaar waarschijnlijk het groot aantal ontbrekende nummers, wat dus mijn
 aanleiding was om hier eerst naar te kijken

 veel debug plezier


 De fout was enkel in de export functie. Dus die nummers zijn nog altijd
 even hoog. Het probleem is dat de vergelijking (nog) geen associatedstreet
 relatie ondersteunt. En eist dat er een addr:street tag is (aangezien dit
 min-of-meer overeengekomen was tijdens de vorige discussie).

 De tool aanpassen is mogelijk, maar zal toch ettelijke lijnen extra code
 vragen (associatedstreet en addr:street zijn totaal verschillend van
 concept).

 Groeten,
 Sander


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
Inderdaad Sus, om de links onder de nummertjes te laten werken, moet je
JOSM draaien. Het moet bovendien de laatste versie zijn, die eerder deze
week is vrijgegeven. Verder moet je de Remote Control van JOSM aanzetten.

met vriendelijke groeten

m

2014-10-23 20:24 GMT+02:00 Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com:

  Sander,
 De kolkstraat 25 is een fout van mij en is al verbeterdt.
 Nu krijg ik de volledige lijst op de desktop Ubuntu. Maar wanneer ik op
 een van de getallen het schermke load in JOSM aanklik dat springt de
 pointer gewoon enkele regels verder en niets anders.
 Moet JOSM dan gewoon openen ?

 Op een Netbook onder Win8.1 krijg ik de 404  . :-(

 Sus

 Le 23/10/14 14:34, Sander Deryckere a écrit :



 Op 23 oktober 2014 14:07 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 Ha,

 Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
 man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op azerty.


 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

 misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
 ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).


  Die worden vermeld in de kolom wrong. Meestal gaat het in die kolom
 over tikfouten van één of andere aard, maar het zou ook kunnen dat de CRAB
 data gewoon verouderd of verkeerd is. Dus altijd opletten als je schijnbaar
 geldige data ziet in die kolom. Over een huisnummer als é( moet je
 natuurlijk niet twijfelen.

  Momenteel heeft de Kolkstraat 1 wrong huisnummer.




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Negeer dit bericht testen thunderbird

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jakka

Jakka schreef op 23/10/2014 om 13:53:

Kan niet beantwoorden. Controleer nu of ik rechtstreeks kan posten


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knop allen beantwoorden eens testen


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Negeer dit bericht testen thunderbird

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jo
Die werkt wel.

Jo

Op 23 oktober 2014 21:18 schreef Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com:

 Jakka schreef op 23/10/2014 om 13:53:

  Kan niet beantwoorden. Controleer nu of ik rechtstreeks kan posten


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 knop allen beantwoorden eens testen



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Verhoeven Fr
In Ubuntu op de desktop werkt het nu :-) . Morgen probeer ik de netbook 
onder Win8.1


Bedankt iedereen voor al de moeite.

Sus



Le 23/10/14 20:47, Marc Gemis a écrit :
Inderdaad Sus, om de links onder de nummertjes te laten werken, moet 
je JOSM draaien. Het moet bovendien de laatste versie zijn, die eerder 
deze week is vrijgegeven. Verder moet je de Remote Control van JOSM 
aanzetten.


met vriendelijke groeten

m




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jo
Nadat ik die geladen heb, zie ik de nodes niet zo duidelijk. Dus MapCSS to
the rescue:

node[addr:housenumber]:new::housenumber
 {text-color: blue;
  font-size: 25;
  text:  tag(addr:housenumber);
  text-halo-radius: 2;
  text-offset-y: 30;}

Enkel de nieuwe nodes worden er uit gelicht.

Jo

Op 23 oktober 2014 20:47 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 Inderdaad Sus, om de links onder de nummertjes te laten werken, moet je
 JOSM draaien. Het moet bovendien de laatste versie zijn, die eerder deze
 week is vrijgegeven. Verder moet je de Remote Control van JOSM aanzetten.

 met vriendelijke groeten

 m

 2014-10-23 20:24 GMT+02:00 Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com:

  Sander,
 De kolkstraat 25 is een fout van mij en is al verbeterdt.
 Nu krijg ik de volledige lijst op de desktop Ubuntu. Maar wanneer ik op
 een van de getallen het schermke load in JOSM aanklik dat springt de
 pointer gewoon enkele regels verder en niets anders.
 Moet JOSM dan gewoon openen ?

 Op een Netbook onder Win8.1 krijg ik de 404  . :-(

 Sus

 Le 23/10/14 14:34, Sander Deryckere a écrit :



 Op 23 oktober 2014 14:07 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 Ha,

 Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
 man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op azerty.


 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

 misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
 ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).


  Die worden vermeld in de kolom wrong. Meestal gaat het in die kolom
 over tikfouten van één of andere aard, maar het zou ook kunnen dat de CRAB
 data gewoon verouderd of verkeerd is. Dus altijd opletten als je schijnbaar
 geldige data ziet in die kolom. Over een huisnummer als é( moet je
 natuurlijk niet twijfelen.

  Momenteel heeft de Kolkstraat 1 wrong huisnummer.




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[OSM-talk-be] Weekly OSM

2014-10-23 Per discussione Ben Abelshausen
Hi,

I would like to announce a new thing I am trying to do that is very simple
but should introduce some continuity in our communication. I have posted
the first translation of the Weekly OSM blog in dutch on osm.be:

http://osm.be/nl/content/weekly-osm-news-221

Someone can translate into french if they want to. I can give you access to
the website. Will post this tomorrow on the twitter account and the
facebook group too.

If you have osm-related news I should add please let me know. I will as
always follow the mailinglist and sometime extract things I find newsworthy
but feel free to nominate things you feel inportant and tell me.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Sander Deryckere
Jo, als je wil, dan kan ik ook optioneel enkele tags toevoegen aan de
nodes. Zodat je per type node (geïmporteerd, verkeerd, zonder positie, ...)
een eigen stijl kan kiezen (natuurlijk moeten die extra tags wel verwijderd
worden voor het uploaden.

Weet niet als je dit handig vindt, maar het is niet zoveel werk.

Ik schrijf niet graag CSS, dat zie je ook aan die webpagina ;)

Groeten,
Sander
Op 23-okt.-2014 22:25 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com:

 Nadat ik die geladen heb, zie ik de nodes niet zo duidelijk. Dus MapCSS to
 the rescue:

 node[addr:housenumber]:new::housenumber
  {text-color: blue;
   font-size: 25;
   text:  tag(addr:housenumber);
   text-halo-radius: 2;
   text-offset-y: 30;}

 Enkel de nieuwe nodes worden er uit gelicht.

 Jo

 Op 23 oktober 2014 20:47 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 Inderdaad Sus, om de links onder de nummertjes te laten werken, moet je
 JOSM draaien. Het moet bovendien de laatste versie zijn, die eerder deze
 week is vrijgegeven. Verder moet je de Remote Control van JOSM aanzetten.

 met vriendelijke groeten

 m

 2014-10-23 20:24 GMT+02:00 Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com:

  Sander,
 De kolkstraat 25 is een fout van mij en is al verbeterdt.
 Nu krijg ik de volledige lijst op de desktop Ubuntu. Maar wanneer ik op
 een van de getallen het schermke load in JOSM aanklik dat springt de
 pointer gewoon enkele regels verder en niets anders.
 Moet JOSM dan gewoon openen ?

 Op een Netbook onder Win8.1 krijg ik de 404  . :-(

 Sus

 Le 23/10/14 14:34, Sander Deryckere a écrit :



 Op 23 oktober 2014 14:07 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 Ha,

 Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
 man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op azerty.


 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

 misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
 ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).


  Die worden vermeld in de kolom wrong. Meestal gaat het in die kolom
 over tikfouten van één of andere aard, maar het zou ook kunnen dat de CRAB
 data gewoon verouderd of verkeerd is. Dus altijd opletten als je schijnbaar
 geldige data ziet in die kolom. Over een huisnummer als é( moet je
 natuurlijk niet twijfelen.

  Momenteel heeft de Kolkstraat 1 wrong huisnummer.




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Thomas
Ik heb nu de CRAB-data voor een hele verzameling straten in en rond 
Oostende bestudeerd. In het algemeen vind ik dat de data vrij nauwkeurig 
is. Een enkele keer merkte ik op dat twee naast elkaar gelegen 
huisnummers met elkaar omgewisseld lijken te zijn. In werkelijkheid 
nummert alles gewoon netjes door, maar in GRB en CadGIS lijken de 
nummers ook omgewisseld te staan. Ik veronderstel dat we in dat soort 
gevallen de nummerplaatjes bij het huis moeten aanhouden. Toch bijzonder 
dat al die “officiële” datasets die kennelijke fout bevatten.


Verder zijn er wel vaak heel wat nummers zonder locatie. Het betreffen 
vrijwel altijd nummers met een toevoeging (meestal het huisnummer waar 
ze bijhoren, een underscore en dan de toevoeging; vb 22_03). Soms zijn 
het schijnbaar gewone nummers. De nummers komen nooit voor op het GRB, 
maar soms komt hetzelfde huisnummer zonder toevoeging wél voor op het GRB.


Ik begrijp niet goed of dat nu de subadressen zijn binnen CRAB of gewone 
adressen, maar dan een bisnummers (zie ook 
https://www.agiv.be/~/media/agiv/producten/crab/documenten/xgrabobjectcataloogv114.pdf 
pagina 15 en 29). Uit het feit dat er geen positie bekend is leid ik af 
dat het waarschijnlijk subadressen zijn die hun positie aan hun 
parent-adres horen te ontlenen. Misschien is het handig als deze punten 
vlak bij het bijbehorende parent-adres-punt geplaatst worden. In feite 
is dat ook waar ze gekarteerd zouden moeten worden. In Oostende alleen 
al gaat het om meer dan 1000 van dat soort nummers, met name in de 
winkelstraten en de appartementsblokken. Op de Zeedijk alleen al gaat 
het om 226 adrespunten zonder locatie, die gewoon in de overeenkomstige 
adresblokken horen. Al die appartementsgebouwen hebben 1 adrespunt, wat 
me verder doet vermoeden dat de meeste zo niet alle van die adrespunten 
zonder positie allen subadressen zijn die hun positie aan het parent 
adres zouden moeten ontlenen.


Ik vind het niet aantrekkelijk om tientallen adressen voor 1 
appartementsblok handmatig op een netjes raster te plaatsen boven het 
appartementsblok. Als dat automatisch kan... Daarnaast is het misschien 
handig om deze punten alsnog een tag mee te geven zodat ze anders 
weergegeven kunnen worden binnen JOSM, maar misschien vinden de andere 
mappers dat enkel onhandig.


In datzelfde kader is het misschien mogelijk om iets met het 
herkomstAdrespositie-veld te doen. Daaruit zou je moeten kunnen afleiden 
of het punt als perceel-centroid of gebouw-centroid is afgeleid. 
Daarnaast kan die informatie misschien licht werpen op bepaalde 
nauwkeurigheids-problemen. Maar wederom: ik kan ook goed begrijpen als 
andere mappers die extra tags enkel vervelend vinden. Ze zullen in elk 
geval verwijderd moeten worden voor het opladen van de gegevens, zoals 
Sander al aangeeft.


Verder kwam ik nog een aantal keer een adrespunt tegen met als 
huisnummer 'ZN', zonder positie. Het lijkt er steeds hooguit 1 per 
straat te zijn. Heeft iemand enig idee waar dat voor staat? Misschien 
'zonder nummer'? In dat geval kunnen we dus helemaal niets met zo'n punt 
zonder nummer of locatie. Misschien is het handig om die met het script 
eruit te filteren?


Buiten een vergissing van een mapper in de Spechtstraat in Oostende, 
zijn alle andere foute huisnummers eigenlijk industriële of commerciële 
panden waar de afstand tussen het centroid in CRAB en het gemapte gebouw 
groter dan de door mij ingestelde 20m op de website van Sander is; geen 
echte fouten dus.


In het algemeen zijn de gegevens voor Oostende dus zeer goed bruikbaar, 
zeker als die subadressen nog automatisch de positie van hun 
parent-adres kunnen krijgen.


Groetjes,
Thomas

Sander Deryckere schreef op 23-10-2014 23:07:


Jo, als je wil, dan kan ik ook optioneel enkele tags toevoegen aan de 
nodes. Zodat je per type node (geïmporteerd, verkeerd, zonder positie, 
...) een eigen stijl kan kiezen (natuurlijk moeten die extra tags wel 
verwijderd worden voor het uploaden.


Weet niet als je dit handig vindt, maar het is niet zoveel werk.

Ik schrijf niet graag CSS, dat zie je ook aan die webpagina ;)

Groeten,
Sander

Op 23-okt.-2014 22:25 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com 
mailto:winfi...@gmail.com:


Nadat ik die geladen heb, zie ik de nodes niet zo duidelijk. Dus
MapCSS to the rescue:

node[addr:housenumber]:new::housenumber
 {text-color: blue;
  font-size: 25;
  text:  tag(addr:housenumber);
  text-halo-radius: 2;
  text-offset-y: 30;}

Enkel de nieuwe nodes worden er uit gelicht.

Jo

Op 23 oktober 2014 20:47 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com
mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com:

Inderdaad Sus, om de links onder de nummertjes te laten
werken, moet je JOSM draaien. Het moet bovendien de laatste
versie zijn, die eerder deze week is vrijgegeven. Verder moet
je de Remote Control van JOSM aanzetten.

met vriendelijke groeten

m

2014-10-23 20:24 GMT+02:00 Verhoeven Fr 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
er bestaat een mogelijkheid om tags toe te voegen aan JOSM die moeten
verwijderd worden tijdens de upload. Kijk eens op dit draadje
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=27234 (dacht ik toch)

groeten

m

2014-10-23 23:07 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com:

 Jo, als je wil, dan kan ik ook optioneel enkele tags toevoegen aan de
 nodes. Zodat je per type node (geïmporteerd, verkeerd, zonder positie, ...)
 een eigen stijl kan kiezen (natuurlijk moeten die extra tags wel verwijderd
 worden voor het uploaden.

 Weet niet als je dit handig vindt, maar het is niet zoveel werk.

 Ik schrijf niet graag CSS, dat zie je ook aan die webpagina ;)

 Groeten,
 Sander
 Op 23-okt.-2014 22:25 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com:

 Nadat ik die geladen heb, zie ik de nodes niet zo duidelijk. Dus MapCSS to
 the rescue:

 node[addr:housenumber]:new::housenumber
  {text-color: blue;
   font-size: 25;
   text:  tag(addr:housenumber);
   text-halo-radius: 2;
   text-offset-y: 30;}

 Enkel de nieuwe nodes worden er uit gelicht.

 Jo

 Op 23 oktober 2014 20:47 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 Inderdaad Sus, om de links onder de nummertjes te laten werken, moet je
 JOSM draaien. Het moet bovendien de laatste versie zijn, die eerder deze
 week is vrijgegeven. Verder moet je de Remote Control van JOSM aanzetten.

 met vriendelijke groeten

 m

 2014-10-23 20:24 GMT+02:00 Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com:

  Sander,
 De kolkstraat 25 is een fout van mij en is al verbeterdt.
 Nu krijg ik de volledige lijst op de desktop Ubuntu. Maar wanneer ik op
 een van de getallen het schermke load in JOSM aanklik dat springt de
 pointer gewoon enkele regels verder en niets anders.
 Moet JOSM dan gewoon openen ?

 Op een Netbook onder Win8.1 krijg ik de 404  . :-(

 Sus

 Le 23/10/14 14:34, Sander Deryckere a écrit :



 Op 23 oktober 2014 14:07 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 Ha,

 Zo te zien heeft Sus perongeluk shift-lock opstaan, ik ben een qwerty
 man maar dit lijkt toch sterk op dat dit nummer 25 moet zijn op azerty.


 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Belgian_keyboard_layout.png/720px-Belgian_keyboard_layout.png

 misschien als sideshow dit soort errors melden (die zouden natuurlijk
 ook prima met overpass alleen kunnen gevonden worden).


  Die worden vermeld in de kolom wrong. Meestal gaat het in die kolom
 over tikfouten van één of andere aard, maar het zou ook kunnen dat de CRAB
 data gewoon verouderd of verkeerd is. Dus altijd opletten als je schijnbaar
 geldige data ziet in die kolom. Over een huisnummer als é( moet je
 natuurlijk niet twijfelen.

  Momenteel heeft de Kolkstraat 1 wrong huisnummer.




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
dan heb je geluk. In mijn regio is het veel slechter gesteld met de
kwaliteit.
ZN is waarschijnlijk zonder nummer, een kapel ? een kerk ? in Edegem is er
ook een bibliotheek zonder nummer.

m

2014-10-24 1:13 GMT+02:00 Thomas o...@aptum.nl:

  Ik heb nu de CRAB-data voor een hele verzameling straten in en rond
 Oostende bestudeerd. In het algemeen vind ik dat de data vrij nauwkeurig
 is. Een enkele keer merkte ik op dat twee naast elkaar gelegen huisnummers
 met elkaar omgewisseld lijken te zijn. In werkelijkheid nummert alles
 gewoon netjes door, maar in GRB en CadGIS lijken de nummers ook omgewisseld
 te staan. Ik veronderstel dat we in dat soort gevallen de nummerplaatjes
 bij het huis moeten aanhouden. Toch bijzonder dat al die “officiële”
 datasets die kennelijke fout bevatten.

 Verder zijn er wel vaak heel wat nummers zonder locatie. Het betreffen
 vrijwel altijd nummers met een toevoeging (meestal het huisnummer waar ze
 bijhoren, een underscore en dan de toevoeging; vb 22_03). Soms zijn het
 schijnbaar gewone nummers. De nummers komen nooit voor op het GRB, maar
 soms komt hetzelfde huisnummer zonder toevoeging wél voor op het GRB.

 Ik begrijp niet goed of dat nu de subadressen zijn binnen CRAB of gewone
 adressen, maar dan een bisnummers (zie ook
 https://www.agiv.be/~/media/agiv/producten/crab/documenten/xgrabobjectcataloogv114.pdf
 pagina 15 en 29). Uit het feit dat er geen positie bekend is leid ik af dat
 het waarschijnlijk subadressen zijn die hun positie aan hun parent-adres
 horen te ontlenen. Misschien is het handig als deze punten vlak bij het
 bijbehorende parent-adres-punt geplaatst worden. In feite is dat ook waar
 ze gekarteerd zouden moeten worden. In Oostende alleen al gaat het om meer
 dan 1000 van dat soort nummers, met name in de winkelstraten en de
 appartementsblokken. Op de Zeedijk alleen al gaat het om 226 adrespunten
 zonder locatie, die gewoon in de overeenkomstige adresblokken horen. Al die
 appartementsgebouwen hebben 1 adrespunt, wat me verder doet vermoeden dat
 de meeste zo niet alle van die adrespunten zonder positie allen subadressen
 zijn die hun positie aan het parent adres zouden moeten ontlenen.

 Ik vind het niet aantrekkelijk om tientallen adressen voor 1
 appartementsblok handmatig op een netjes raster te plaatsen boven het
 appartementsblok. Als dat automatisch kan... Daarnaast is het misschien
 handig om deze punten alsnog een tag mee te geven zodat ze anders
 weergegeven kunnen worden binnen JOSM, maar misschien vinden de andere
 mappers dat enkel onhandig.

 In datzelfde kader is het misschien mogelijk om iets met het
 herkomstAdrespositie-veld te doen. Daaruit zou je moeten kunnen afleiden of
 het punt als perceel-centroid of gebouw-centroid is afgeleid. Daarnaast kan
 die informatie misschien licht werpen op bepaalde
 nauwkeurigheids-problemen. Maar wederom: ik kan ook goed begrijpen als
 andere mappers die extra tags enkel vervelend vinden. Ze zullen in elk
 geval verwijderd moeten worden voor het opladen van de gegevens, zoals
 Sander al aangeeft.

 Verder kwam ik nog een aantal keer een adrespunt tegen met als huisnummer
 'ZN', zonder positie. Het lijkt er steeds hooguit 1 per straat te zijn.
 Heeft iemand enig idee waar dat voor staat? Misschien 'zonder nummer'? In
 dat geval kunnen we dus helemaal niets met zo'n punt zonder nummer of
 locatie. Misschien is het handig om die met het script eruit te filteren?

 Buiten een vergissing van een mapper in de Spechtstraat in Oostende, zijn
 alle andere foute huisnummers eigenlijk industriële of commerciële panden
 waar de afstand tussen het centroid in CRAB en het gemapte gebouw groter
 dan de door mij ingestelde 20m op de website van Sander is; geen echte
 fouten dus.

 In het algemeen zijn de gegevens voor Oostende dus zeer goed bruikbaar,
 zeker als die subadressen nog automatisch de positie van hun parent-adres
 kunnen krijgen.

 Groetjes,
 Thomas

 Sander Deryckere schreef op 23-10-2014 23:07:

 Jo, als je wil, dan kan ik ook optioneel enkele tags toevoegen aan de
 nodes. Zodat je per type node (geïmporteerd, verkeerd, zonder positie, ...)
 een eigen stijl kan kiezen (natuurlijk moeten die extra tags wel verwijderd
 worden voor het uploaden.

 Weet niet als je dit handig vindt, maar het is niet zoveel werk.

 Ik schrijf niet graag CSS, dat zie je ook aan die webpagina ;)

 Groeten,
 Sander
 Op 23-okt.-2014 22:25 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com:

  Nadat ik die geladen heb, zie ik de nodes niet zo duidelijk. Dus MapCSS
 to the rescue:

 node[addr:housenumber]:new::housenumber
  {text-color: blue;
   font-size: 25;
   text:  tag(addr:housenumber);
   text-halo-radius: 2;
   text-offset-y: 30;}

  Enkel de nieuwe nodes worden er uit gelicht.

  Jo

 Op 23 oktober 2014 20:47 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 Inderdaad Sus, om de links onder de nummertjes te laten werken, moet je
 JOSM draaien. Het moet bovendien de laatste versie zijn, die eerder deze
 week is vrijgegeven. Verder moet je de 

Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Sarah Hoffmann
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:24:10PM -0700, Kate Chapman wrote:
 I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do
 think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF
 membership isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors (I
 frequently have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board
 elections) are not necessarily the best to be on a board. 

This statement seems at odds with your complaint that members are not
enough involved. The board elections are at the moment pretty much the
only means for the OSMF members to voice their opinion, precisely by
electing those candidates who are most likely to steer the OSMF in the
direction the membership wants. I dare say that previous elections have
shown a very clear trend towards electing people that are firmly routed
in the community.

 It does not allow
 the flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For
 example most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or
 legal matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is not
 a bad thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way.

Among all the problems I perceive with the board, lack of skills is very,
very low on the list. What the board needs are foremost people
that are able to work with others, that can listen and compromise.
We need people who are really interested in bringing OSM forward 
instead of just following their own agenda.

Accountants and lawyers can be hired.


Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Sarah Hoffmann
Hi,

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 03:47:03PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 In theory, the OSMF members are the boss and board is just a group of
 people asked by the members to run business for them until they convene
 next time. In similar organisations I know in Germany, it is absolutely
 not uncommmon for members to discuss and submit proposals to the AGM
 that would be binding for the board; and for people to actually discuss
 and argue and vote at an AGM.
 
 OSMF has no culture of democracy really; and this is most likely due to
 the founding story: This is not a political body, it's mainly a
 safeguard for things like our trademarks and a legal entity to operate
 our servers.

The problem is that I don't see where the membership has any leverge on
the board apart from the elections. We have had discussions about
transparency before but they have been utterly fruitless so far. A good
part of the current members has promised to report from the work of the
board in their manifestos. None has ever done that more than once. We
have lost quite a few very active community members in den OSMF because
they have lost any hope that anything can be changed whatsoever by being
a member.

Going through the minutes, I am remaineded that the board has given itself
a set of rules already two years ago:
http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Rules_of_Order

It very clear states the obligations of a board member with respect to
board meetings and transparency. How does the board hold its individual
members accountable for following the rules of order? How can the
OSMF membership hold board members accountable for it?

Kind regards

Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
First question: how do you build the world's best addressable map ?
Through imports or survey ? Is the timeframe that Martin puts forward fur
surveyed addresses acceptable and feasible ?

As for the imports:

Wouldn't it be great that we would have import tools that can be used by
many groups ? Just as we have great editors for manual mapping.
Shouldn't the OSMF (or however) invest in a procedure + tools for import ?

So when a group wants to perform an import, they only have make sure the
license is compatible and the data has enough quality. The process of the
import is already described, the tools ( task managers, data conversion,
some quality checks etc.) are in place. They deliver the data and the
import can start.
I have the impression that right now each group has to take all those
obstacles all by themselves.

Maybe I have a totally wrong perception of the import process. please
correct me if that's the case.

regards

m


On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
wrote:

 Steve Coast suggested changing the mission statement of OSM to be
 something like “The world’s best addressable map” I thought
 I'd separate out this into a new thread. As some backup, I attended my
 first SOTM-US in 2012 where Steve proposed we build an addressable map. A
 group of us from Seattle decided that we'd take that challenge and import
 addresses for Seattle. That import was completed.

 Here are the address related comments:

 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:37 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:

 2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Steve Coast st...@asklater.com:

 Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3
 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better,
 we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed map
 ever again, and it would be people like you that made it happen.




 I agree with you that addressing is very important for a lot of
 commercial (and non-commercial) map users. What I don't understand is how a
 paid board would help us map more addresses. Unfortunately mapping
 addresses is typically less fun than going to the video arcade. Looking at
 the current figures we are not doing too bad. Currently there are 130
 Million buildings in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers. I don't know exactly
 how many buildings there are in the world, and how many of them don't have
 addresses, but I guess it will be at least 1 Billion addresses in the
 world, probably more. According to the stats page we have roughly 25.000
 active contributors a month (
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contributor_Stats ). To get an
 address on all currently mapped buildings in three years time, (84M to go),
 every active contributor would have to add 93 addresses a month -
 constantly. To get 1 Billion addresses mapped by 25.000 contributors in 3
 yrs, it would be  housenumbers a month per active contributor. Are we
 planning to pay the mappers as well? The only solution seems to get more
 contributors mapping, and have them insert addresses.


 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:59 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote:

 It would be nice to know how many of the buildings and house numbers in
 OSM were imported versus surveyed / drawn by hand. I have a bad feeling
 about how feasible it is to crowd surf house numbers.


 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:04 AM, Oleksiy Muzalyev 
 oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch wrote:

 It is not necessary to put down a number on each building. It is possible
 to use *addr:interpolation* (*odd, even*, or *all*).

 We put down a number on the first building, then on the last, connect
 them in JOSM, and add *addr:interpolation: all *. For example here:
 http://osm.org/go/0CFn0AZ_d--?m= . It is also very useful on a street
 with many small houses. And it is searchable. For example if there is
 number 15 and number 27 on the map for a street, and they are connected
 with *addr:interpolation: odd, *and if one searches number 21, the map
 will show the number 21 all right.

 Then, there is another approach. We first map addressable large building,
 where a lot of people live or work. Kind of of going after the low-hanging
 fruit.


 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:06 AM, Matthijs Melissen 
 i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote:

 On 22 October 2014 12:37, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Currently there are 130 Million buildings
  in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers.

 Do we know how many of these addresses come from imports? I wouldn't
 be surprised if over 90% of the housenumbers in OSM come from imports.

 The Dutch BAG import accounts for 8 million adresses, and the Czech
 RUIAN import accounts for 3 million addresses. Then there have also
 been large imports at least in Germany, Poland, and France, but for
 these countries I can't find exact numbers.






 --
 @osm_seattle
 osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)

2014-10-23 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi,

On 10/23/2014 08:57 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
 Wouldn't it be great that we would have import tools that can be used by
 many groups ? 

As far as addresses are concerned, there's OpenAddresses (the US
version, not the older Swiss project) that collects openly licensed
address data and to my knowledge they're also looking into how that data
can then be combined with OSM for geocoding, without actually importing
it in OSM.

To my mind that's an excellent solution; you can dump address data into
the pool and have it processed without interfering with the manually
surveyed data that is in OSM. And users can be given the choice of using
only the manually surveyed data, or only the government data, or a
mixture of both.

OSM is not a melting pot for the world's open data and while there is a
place for imports, every import will have to be carefully thought about
and evaluated. Streamlining that process is not necessarily in the best
interest of OpenStreetMap.

Frankly, I don't get all the brouhaha about addresses. Yes, geocoding is
commercially interesting, but is it interesting for us as a project? Are
the mappers in OSM doing what they do because they always wanted to have
a house-level free geocoder? I very much doubt that. Technology wise, I
find it almost insulting to reduce OSM to a geocoding database and
measure OSM in how many addresses it has. There's so much more to the
data we collect than merely placing a latitude and longitude against an
address.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Simon Poole


Am 23.10.2014 08:22, schrieb Sarah Hoffmann:
..
 
 It very clear states the obligations of a board member with respect to
 board meetings and transparency. How does the board hold its individual
 members accountable for following the rules of order? How can the
 OSMF membership hold board members accountable for it?
..

The board members are elected by the OSMF members and the board doesn't
really have control over its own composition outside of a couple of
nuclear options that naturally tend to not be invoked.

The rules of order can be seen as a contract between the board members
complementary to the law and articles of association, but just as in the
real world a breach of contract will make people unhappy, but given the
trade-offs tend to not have any consequences of note.

One thing has become obvious, that the current 1/3 of the board stands
for re-election per year rule has provided lots of continuity but not
enough change. Going forward I would suggest tweaking the articles to
limit consecutive terms to two (just reiterating what I've said earlier)
and require a minimum of 3 seats to be available at every election.

There has been some discussion between Michael, the board and myself on
changing the inner workings of the OSMF a bit which potentially could
address some of the remaining issues, however these are at a very early
discussion stage.

Simon







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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer
2014-10-23 8:57 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 Is the timeframe that Martin puts forward fur surveyed addresses
 acceptable and feasible ?




I believe for surveyed addresses it is completely unrealistic - if our
active user base continues to grow like it did in the past 3 years, and if
the majority of mappers remains concentrated in the urban parts of the
western world. It also depends on how good you expect the coverage to be
(by covering urban areas you'll get a lot of addresses with much fewer
effort than you'll need for surveying the remaining addresses in remote
rural areas).

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Oleksiy Muzalyev
I usually map house numbers on Sunday morning when there is less
traffic. I use bicycle and a specialized application for smartphone for
collecting address (with a smartphone stylus).

It is better to map addressable first, say, 30 large buildings where
1000 people live or work, than 60 small buildings, where 100 persons live.

And de facto it is always not about house numbers only, as during such
on-the-ground surveys one corrects street names, adds POI, building
names, etc. We just make a photo of a sign or a plaque, again with the
smartphone camera, and see to it later. Nothing can replace an
on-the-ground survey, of being there physically.

Besides, it is interesting, because it is a possibility to visit and
learn areas of a city, which one would never visit otherwise, to make
discoveries for yourself, to maintain an explorer spirit.

It is surprising how much map area one can cover on bicycle during one
Sunday morning expedition. I would say one weekend mapper is capable to
map addressable a medium city in couple of years. Perhaps, not
exhaustively, but major buildings.

brgds,
Oleksiy (Alex-7)

On 22.10.2014 13:59, Marc Gemis wrote:
 ... I have a bad feeling about how feasible it is to crowd surf house
 numbers...

 regards

 m



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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jóhannes Birgir Jensson
I like addresses but they don't behave like you would think. For example 
we have a part of a street that has each individual flat as its own 
address number. We first used the number;number;number; approach but I'm 
now in favor of naming the house what it says on the front (the range 
37-51) and then put address nodes on the building so it appears in 
search, with roughly the position accounting for where in the house the 
apartment is. In this case the numbers closest to the street are at the 
bottom floor (the stadium approach I favor). I'm in favor of moving this 
same method over to the other houses.


http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/64.13635/-21.79883

As for being able to search within a specific town or area then I think 
we should look again at relations and super-relations. You could group 
streets relations into a neighborhood relation and then into a town or 
municipality relation etc. This of course works very differently based 
on country but for Iceland I can't see us hitting any limits.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Super-Relation

Regards on behalf of the Icelandic Local Chapter applicant,
Jói

Þann 22.10.2014 18:28, skrifaði Clifford Snow:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:04 AM, Oleksiy Muzalyev 
oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch wrote:


It is not necessary to put down a number on each building. It is
possible to use /addr:interpolation/ (/odd, even/, or /all/).

We put down a number on the first building, then on the last,
connect them in JOSM, and add /addr:interpolation: all /. For
example here: http://osm.org/go/0CFn0AZ_d--?m= . It is also very
useful on a street with many small houses. And it is searchable.
For example if there is number 15 and number 27 on the map for a
street, and they are connected with /addr:interpolation: odd,
/and//if one searches number 21, the map will show the number 21
all right.

Then, there is another approach. We first map addressable large
building, where a lot of people live or work. Kind of of going
after the low-hanging fruit.




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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Kathleen Danielson


 There has been some discussion between Michael, the board and myself on
 changing the inner workings of the OSMF a bit which potentially could
 address some of the remaining issues, however these are at a very early
 discussion stage.


Simon, would you care to shed light on this? This seems like a good time to
bring conversation out into the open, so that the community can give input,
rather than waiting until things have already been decided. The deadline
for someone to announce their candidacy is in just over 12 hours, so today
is rather critical for OSMF. I would hate for something to come out in a
day or a week that could have compelled someone to run.

Speaking of timelines, I'd like to register my disappointment that it
wasn't made more obviously known that the deadline has already passed to
join the foundation to be eligible to vote in the upcoming election [1]. I
certainly understand why the 30 day rule is in place, but we talk about how
few community members are actually OSMF members, and yet the AGM wasn't
formally announced until *yesterday*, [2] only 17 days in advance. I also
absolutely understand the challenges around scheduling at conferences, but
I wasn't aware of this rule, and I think it's fair to assume many other
people weren't as well.  By failing to publicize this important deadline to
the larger community, a key opportunity has been lost to increase the
membership as well as to hear the voices of more community members in our
annual election. To me, this communicates either satisfaction with the
status quo (why expand the voting base if we're happy with how elections
have gone in the past?), or simply apathy. Both are disappointing.

There is still quite a bit that I want to say in response to the messages
of the past few days, but it's taking me some time to formulate the bulk of
my thoughts. That said, I would like to voice my support for Richard's
suggestion that the full board step down. I hope most of them will stand
for re-election, but I think we've heard that whichever 2 people we elect
are likely to be burnt out and sapped of whatever energy they have going
into the election. Don't think that I don't understand the challenge that
comes with the potential loss of institutional memory. It's something we've
discussed many times on the OSM-US board. I do think that it's a drastic
option, but I can't see anything short of a drastic option making a
substantial difference. If the past few days have taught us anything, it's
that the OSMF is fundamentally broken and doesn't have the energy needed to
fix that. This project can and should be able to and *has* done great
things, but it could be so much more. No, we don't always agree with what
more means, but with a governing body (which is what OSMF is, even if
that isn't made explicit) that cannot accomplish things, we're not going to
see any version of more.

Yes, I've decided to stand for election, and no, I don't expect my view to
make me particularly popular (or electable), but I truly care about this
project, and I want to see our community become a healthy one. I think a
shakeup in leadership could help us get there.

[1]
http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association#VOTING_AT_GENERAL_MEETINGS
(see
item 75)
[2]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-announce/2014-October/12.html
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Re: [OSM-talk] Applications to the Local Chapter Agreement

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jóhannes Birgir Jensson
On behalf of the Icelandic applicants we are fairly sure that we are the 
only ones representing our area and we will strive hard to include 
others who will be or are interested in the area.


We have a small blurb in English about us on our webpage, the OSM 
affiliation would be presented under OpenStreetMap á Íslandi (in 
Iceland) where applicable.


http://www.hlidskjalf.is/english/

Regards,
Jói, current chairman

Þann 22.10.2014 23:10, skrifaði Simon Poole:

Hi Rob

  I had the feeling that I had announced something outside of the board,
but that may simply be a figment of my imagination. Applications have
been received from Iceland, Italy and Japan.  All three have the honor
and the pain of having to beta test the procedure, mainly providing us
with some additional documentation. I'm sure translating the respective
articles is the main issue, but I can't see how minimal due diligence
can be avoided without creating a liability nightmare.

There are further organisations that have indicated their willingness to
join us and I would expect a few more applications in the next couple of
months.

Simon


Am 22.10.2014 23:41, schrieb Rob Nickerson:

Simon,

I note in [1] that there are now three applications to the Local
Chapter Agreement [2] and these are being processed now.

In light of the current discussions on transparency and holding the
board to account, can I ask whether it possible to disclose these just
in case there are any other local groups that feel they represent the
geographic regions included in the first three applications.

Also I'm curious :-)

Best,
Rob

[1]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-October/002697.html
[2] http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_OSMF_Chapters



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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Oleksiy Muzalyev
I agree that addresses is a complicated field. There are different
historical systems, there are cities where even many streets are without
names, etc. There is a lot of space for innovation, certainly.

What I meant is that it is not obligatory to map a city or a town
addressable from one end to another, one house after another, or wait
until a municipal government releases into public domain its database of
addresses (which may be not without errors or omissions too).

If there are, say, 10% of buildings where 90% of the population lives,
studies and works, it makes sense to map them addressable first. Often
these are large modern buildings with clear addresses.

And it is much easier to return into the same area for the second time,
when there are already at least some large buildings with numbers, much
easier to orientate oneself.

I see from your example that in the city of Reykjavik almost every
building has a number, so you have a more advanced set of priorities.

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 23.10.2014 10:39, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
 I like addresses but they don't behave like you would think. For
 example we have a part of a street that has each individual flat as
 its own address number. We first used the number;number;number;
 approach but I'm now in favor of naming the house what it says on the
 front (the range 37-51) and then put address nodes on the building so
 it appears in search, with roughly the position accounting for where
 in the house the apartment is. In this case the numbers closest to the
 street are at the bottom floor (the stadium approach I favor). I'm in
 favor of moving this same method over to the other houses.

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/64.13635/-21.79883

 As for being able to search within a specific town or area then I
 think we should look again at relations and super-relations. You could
 group streets relations into a neighborhood relation and then into a
 town or municipality relation etc. This of course works very
 differently based on country but for Iceland I can't see us hitting
 any limits.

 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Super-Relation

 Regards on behalf of the Icelandic Local Chapter applicant,
 Jói

 Þann 22.10.2014 18:28, skrifaði Clifford Snow:
 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:04 AM, Oleksiy
 Muzalyev oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch
 mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch wrote:

 It is not necessary to put down a number on each building. It is
 possible to use /addr:interpolation/ (/odd, even/, or /all/).

 We put down a number on the first building, then on the last,
 connect them in JOSM, and add /addr:interpolation: all /. For
 example here: http://osm.org/go/0CFn0AZ_d--?m= . It is also very
 useful on a street with many small houses. And it is searchable.
 For example if there is number 15 and number 27 on the map for a
 street, and they are connected with /addr:interpolation:
 odd, /and/ /if one searches number 21, the map will show the
 number 21 all right.

 Then, there is another approach. We first map addressable large
 building, where a lot of people live or work. Kind of of going
 after the low-hanging fruit.





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[OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione David Cuenca
There are many people who record both a gps trace and a video of their
itinerary.
Do you think it would be viable to use these videos as a sort of street
view by associating the frames to a location? When there is no gps trace,
it could be done by interpolation, defining synchronization points between
map and video.

It is not 360°, but at least there would be some images of remote areas.

Cheers,
Micru
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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jóhannes Birgir Jensson

I think you are looking for Mapillary!

Mapillary images are now built into the iD editor, if you go into 
Background settings you can check the Photo Overlay (Mapillary) option 
and see images from there.


Example area: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=18/64.08253/-21.80923

Þann 23.10.2014 10:20, skrifaði David Cuenca:
There are many people who record both a gps trace and a video of their 
itinerary.
Do you think it would be viable to use these videos as a sort of 
street view by associating the frames to a location? When there is no 
gps trace, it could be done by interpolation, defining synchronization 
points between map and video.


It is not 360°, but at least there would be some images of remote areas.

Cheers,
Micru


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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Oleksiy Muzalyev
It is possible to upload photos to the  Crowdsourced Street Level Photos
http://www.mapillary.com/ from its smartphone application or manually.
The photos just must have the following EXIF tags:
[GPSLongitude]
[GPSLatitude]
[DateTimeOriginal,DateTimeDigitized,DateTime,GPSDateStamp]
[Orientation]

I tried to upload to the Mapillary photos from Canon 70D camera with the
GPS receiver Canon GP-E2. It recognizes them all right and places them
on the map in the right spot.

But GoPro-4 makes about 120 fps (frames per second) in video mode. It
means 120 photos per second, in one minute it will be 720 HD photos. I
think it will overwhelm the server.

Perhaps, in photo mode? Though I do not own GoPro.

brgds
Oleksiy

On 23.10.2014 12:20, David Cuenca wrote:
 There are many people who record both a gps trace and a video of their
 itinerary.
 Do you think it would be viable to use these videos as a sort of
 street view by associating the frames to a location? When there is no
 gps trace, it could be done by interpolation, defining synchronization
 points between map and video.

 It is not 360°, but at least there would be some images of remote areas.

 Cheers,
 Micru


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[OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst

Simon Poole wrote:

Kathleen Danielson wrote:

That said, I would like to voice my support for Richard's
suggestion that the full board step down.

It simply is a very unrealistic option given that it would require a
mechanism that doesn't exist to force all board members to resign.


Absolutely no force required. I would hope that the existing board 
members would recognise the virtue of a fresh mandate and a clean start.


Incidentally, only three of the current board members (Simon, Frederik 
and Kate) have contributed to or shown any sign of being aware of this 
debate. Matt of course is stepping down but I hope Dermot, Henk and 
Oliver will take this chance to engage with the community they represent 
and serve.


Richard


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Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Frankly, I don't get all the brouhaha about addresses. Yes, geocoding is
 commercially interesting, but is it interesting for us as a project? Are


So don't you expect pressure from companies using OSM for navigation and
geocoding to add more addresses ? Or do you expect them to use many
different datasources ?
And when the mission statement is The world's best addressable map, don't
you expect that people will feel the need to add more addresses, faster, in
a shorter period of time ?

BTW, I'm just an ordinary mapper without real vision of what OSM has to be.
I'm happy to continue mapping the way I do now: surveys, because this means
exploring the world around me. I don't need imports. It's just that when
OSMF wants more imports (do they ?)  they should support that process with
the necessary tools, doing so would to improve the quality of the imports
IMHO.


regards

m
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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione David Cuenca
The business activity of the for-profit company Mapillary is not new.
Before it was acquired by Google, Panoramio did the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramio

I don't see any point in working for free for a private company so they can
sell their services to third parties. I was asking here to see if there is
a not-for profit way of reaching the same goal.

Thanks for your support,
Micru

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:

 There is a blog entry about uploading GoPro photos to Mapillary:

 http://blog.mapillary.com/technology/2014/07/21/upload-scripts.html

 Janko

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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Simon Poole
See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Video_mapping
and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Video_Mapping_with_the_ContourGPS_Helmet_Camera

It is my preferred way of surveying if not on foot. There are numerous
problems, for example current affordable video cams tend to not have
enough resolution for stuff like house numbers and so on. But for a lot
of larger things it is very efficient.

Simon

Am 23.10.2014 12:20, schrieb David Cuenca:
 There are many people who record both a gps trace and a video of their
 itinerary.
 Do you think it would be viable to use these videos as a sort of street
 view by associating the frames to a location? When there is no gps
 trace, it could be done by interpolation, defining synchronization
 points between map and video.
 
 It is not 360°, but at least there would be some images of remote areas.
 
 Cheers,
 Micru
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jóhannes Birgir Jensson

Well all the images are under CC-BY-SA license

http://www.mapillary.com/legal.html

I don't see anyone at the moment making another non-profit solution that 
gives an instant benefit to OSM (via iD editor). Storage space and 
bandwidth are never free while volunteer time is, wether it is 
programming or contributing material, so until then anyone offering a 
similar service will require income to pay for it.


Mapillary is the best answer to your question at this point in time. 
That is all I can say.



Þann 23.10.2014 11:33, skrifaði David Cuenca:
The business activity of the for-profit company Mapillary is not new. 
Before it was acquired by Google, Panoramio did the same:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramio

I don't see any point in working for free for a private company so 
they can sell their services to third parties. I was asking here to 
see if there is a not-for profit way of reaching the same goal.


Thanks for your support,
Micru

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com 
mailto:jan...@gmail.com wrote:


There is a blog entry about uploading GoPro photos to Mapillary:

http://blog.mapillary.com/technology/2014/07/21/upload-scripts.html

Janko

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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione David Cuenca
Simon,thanks for sharing, it is really cool to see that there are so many
possibilities! And now with 360° HD cameras getting cheaper, maybe it would
be possible to use them for locating street numbers.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:

 See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Video_mapping
 and

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Video_Mapping_with_the_ContourGPS_Helmet_Camera

 It is my preferred way of surveying if not on foot. There are numerous
 problems, for example current affordable video cams tend to not have
 enough resolution for stuff like house numbers and so on. But for a lot
 of larger things it is very efficient.

 Simon

 Am 23.10.2014 12:20, schrieb David Cuenca:
  There are many people who record both a gps trace and a video of their
  itinerary.
  Do you think it would be viable to use these videos as a sort of street
  view by associating the frames to a location? When there is no gps
  trace, it could be done by interpolation, defining synchronization
  points between map and video.
 
  It is not 360°, but at least there would be some images of remote areas.
 
  Cheers,
  Micru
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Oleksiy Muzalyev
I mapped house numbers in this area http://osm.org/go/0CFtB2b71--

As you can see there are service roads with private access. I never had
any problem to cycle on these roads, note the numbers and put down
numbers into a smartphone application. But I would not want to film with
a video-camera continuously in such areas.

I used to employ the /OSMPad/ application for mapping numbers
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OsmPad , but for some reason it
stopped working on my iPhone after iOS 8 update. And there is no update
in App Store.

I took just seconds to map several houses with the /OSMPad/ , no more
than to stop and check an SMS or a Whatsup message. I downloaded
/OSMhunter/ and will give it a try. But I have a feeling that
disappearance of /the OSMPad /would be a major setback/./

brgds
Oleksiy

On 23.10.2014 13:59, David Cuenca wrote:
 ... with 360° HD cameras getting cheaper, maybe it would be possible
 to use them for locating street numbers.


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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi,

On 10/23/2014 01:25 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
 Absolutely no force required. I would hope that the existing board 
 members would recognise the virtue of a fresh mandate and a clean start.

A radical step, but I like it. I'd be more than happy to withdraw my
candidacy if there was a spirit of rebooting. We wouldn't even need
seven new candidates; we could simply elect a few and they could then
add new un-elected board members as they like (article 79 in the AoA).

Instead of rushing through such an unprecedented measure, we could also
do it in a more orderly fashion: Have this year's AGM decide that the
board should prepare to resign altogether at the next AGM, and prepare
the election of a full new board. This event would then be known long in
advance and people would have time to prepare their bids for a seat on
the rebooted body. Independent of the actual legal powers of the AGM,
certainly no board member could ignore such an express declaration by
the very people they're serving.

Another thing, while we're throwing doors wide open. In many political
systems around the world, the electorate doesn't elect a group of people
with wildly different goals. Instead, people form parties and the
electorate decides for a party, and the party will then form the
government. (Grossly simplifying, I know.) That way, people in
government have to fight each other to a much lesser degree than they
would if government were comprised of people following different
political views and goals.

By appointing seven directors individually, on the one hand we have the
advantage that they can keep each other in check; we, as the electorate,
don't have to be super careful, if we elect someone who's incompetent or
a kleptomaniac, the others on the board will hopefully notice and fix it
somehow. On the other hand, there's the danger of seeding the board with
a couple of difficult personalities that make life hard and reduce
productiveness for the rest of them.

Should we perhaps vote for teams? Just like a team can assemble and
bid for holding a SotM, should we allow a team to bid for being the OSMF
board for a year?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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[OSM-talk] Fwd: An engaged electorate

2014-10-23 Per discussione Richard Weait
-- Forwarded message --
From: Richard Weait rich...@weait.com
Date: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:50 AM
Subject: An engaged electorate
To: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org


Talk@ and osmf-talk@ posts suggest that we have an engaged electorate.
Candidates should undertake to engage with their potential voters.

Candidates.  Please address the current questions to candidates on the
wiki page,

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Foundation/AGM14/Election_to_Board

If you are uncomfortable with editing the wiki page directly, post
your answers to osmf-talk@, we can crowd-source it[1]. :-) Please
repeat the question in the email with your answer to avoid ambiguity.

Candidates, please continue to monitor the link above for additional
questions.  With your wiki account, you can see changes in that page
by using your watchlist.

There are fewer than 12 hours to go for candidacy declarations!

[1] so, readers, please help out by transcribing answers posted here
that are not added yet added to the wiki page.

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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer
2014-10-23 13:59 GMT+02:00 David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com:

 And now with 360° HD cameras getting cheaper, maybe it would be possible
 to use them for locating street numbers.



From my findings the time you are saving by recording everything instead of
selecting at surveytime what you want to map by taking a focused photo or
note, will be spent twice and more when looking for useful pictures in the
video later (and you'll risk to miss a lot of important stuff, but you will
be able to map a lot of detail, re-using the same footage over and over
again and still will find unmapped stuff). It depends on what you map which
method is most useful, e.g. for speed limits or lanes count, automatic
video recording is probably perfect, for housenumbers you'd need a setup
similar to Google's in order to get sufficient detail (and still you can
see in streetview that sometimes the feature you are interested in is
covered by something else or that the light conditions do not allow to
discern what you are after). This might have gotten better with higher
resolution cameras now. For the purpose of mapping my guess is that rather
than 120fps@fullHD you should set the cam to 30fps@4K.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Craig Wallace

On 2014-10-23 11:20, David Cuenca wrote:

There are many people who record both a gps trace and a video of their
itinerary.
Do you think it would be viable to use these videos as a sort of street
view by associating the frames to a location? When there is no gps
trace, it could be done by interpolation, defining synchronization
points between map and video.

It is not 360°, but at least there would be some images of remote areas.


For the GoPro, I find its usually more useful in timelapse model.
ie taking a photo every second, or maybe every 5 or 10 seconds, depends 
on what you are surveying and how fast you are moving.


The still photos are usually much better quality and higher resolution 
than frames from the video. So more useful for reading housenames etc.
Plus its easy to geotag all of the photos (I use GeoSetter), then load 
them into JOSM.


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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi,

On 10/23/2014 08:22 AM, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
 The problem is that I don't see where the membership has any leverge on
 the board apart from the elections. We have had discussions about
 transparency before but they have been utterly fruitless so far. A good
 part of the current members has promised to report from the work of the
 board in their manifestos.

Let me describe a purely hypothetical situation.

Say there's someone on the board who doesn't really do anything. They
rarely show up for meetings, don't participate in mailing list
discussions, and respond late if at all to inquiries by the rest of the
board. It's not however *so* bad that board would go through the trouble
of calling an EGM to have that board member removed or replaced,
especially since that would always require someone to be the first to
stand up and spread disharmony by pointing out the obvious.

A new election comes up and, lo and behold, that same board member even
stands for re-election. The other board members are a bit puzzled but
what can they do, they can't suddenly start a campaign against one of
their own, can they? In the absence of any communications from other
board members, the OSMF membership assumes that the board member in
question must have been doing a good job, and promptly re-elects them.

End of hypothetical situation. It is obvious that something has gone
wrong, but what, and how could it have been better? Can we expect board
members to report to the membership about the (perceived?) lack of
performance of their peers? Or does the membership have to ask questions
to find out what happens or does not happen?

Board members are expected to keep board matters confidential, something
that is also enshrined in the Rules of Order that you mention. This is
to avoid reading about the board meeting in 5 different twitter feeds
instead of on the OSMF wiki ;) but maybe the balance is not right. Maybe
individual board members should be asked to report about their work to
the electorate. But that would of course hardly be objective. Currently
not only have we no such reporting, but the secretary (me) has even been
asked not to specifically minute *who* voted for *what* in those few
cases where board votes on something.

 It very clear states the obligations of a board member with respect to
 board meetings and transparency. How does the board hold its individual
 members accountable for following the rules of order?

Not at all, really. The rules of order is something we spent quite some
time on during our face-to-face meeting last year. I had introduced that
document because I felt that being clear about expectations and
obligations would remove some of the problems. The bill didn't pass
fully (I think the draft is still on my user page on the OSM Foundation
Wiki, something I caught flak for internally BTW) but at the time I
hoped that the bits that passed, like that board members shouldn't keep
information from each other, would clear some obstacles. I think that
was one of those occasions where I was naive.

 How can the
 OSMF membership hold board members accountable for it?

Watch what the board are doing, and ask questions. Read the answers you
get, and ask the questions that arise from them. That's what I would
suggest, and as a board member I'd actually value it if I saw that
members were interested in my work. Even if I'd probably have to give
many an embarrassing answer.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)

2014-10-23 Per discussione Nick Whitelegg

I'd go along with this to some extent; I certainly don't think OSM should be 
primarily about addressing as Steve's email appears to indicate.
It should be about whatever we as mappers want it to be. If addressing's your 
thing, then fine, do it, but if it isn't, that's fine also.

I don't think we should be singling out one mission at all - other than to 
gather free geodata. Instead, we as mappers should be contributing whatever 
personally turns us on, so to speak.
There are enough people with enough diverse interests that we end up with a map 
showing a wide range of things.

There are still a good number of things besides addressing that are missing. 
Plenty of footpaths even here in the UK are still missing, for instance - to 
mention my own personal area of interest.

By focusing on one aim you're going to potentially turn people off whose 
mapping interests lie elsewhere.

Nick



-Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
Date: 23/10/2014 08:44AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The 
world’s best addressable map)

Hi,

On 10/23/2014 08:57 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
 Wouldn't it be great that we would have import tools that can be used by
 many groups ? 

As far as addresses are concerned, there's OpenAddresses (the US
version, not the older Swiss project) that collects openly licensed
address data and to my knowledge they're also looking into how that data
can then be combined with OSM for geocoding, without actually importing
it in OSM.

To my mind that's an excellent solution; you can dump address data into
the pool and have it processed without interfering with the manually
surveyed data that is in OSM. And users can be given the choice of using
only the manually surveyed data, or only the government data, or a
mixture of both.

OSM is not a melting pot for the world's open data and while there is a
place for imports, every import will have to be carefully thought about
and evaluated. Streamlining that process is not necessarily in the best
interest of OpenStreetMap.

Frankly, I don't get all the brouhaha about addresses. Yes, geocoding is
commercially interesting, but is it interesting for us as a project? Are
the mappers in OSM doing what they do because they always wanted to have
a house-level free geocoder? I very much doubt that. Technology wise, I
find it almost insulting to reduce OSM to a geocoding database and
measure OSM in how many addresses it has. There's so much more to the
data we collect than merely placing a latitude and longitude against an
address.

Bye
Frederik

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[OSM-talk] Overpass turbo Has it been amended?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Dave F.

Hi

Has the wizard in Overpass Turbo been updated in the past couple of 
days, or have I somehow amend its way of working? Looked in the wiki but 
could see no mention.


Wizard query of landuse=recreation_ground produces a much less verbose 
query (No 'query' or 'k=' etc)


/*
This has been generated by the overpass-turbo wizard.
The original search was:
“landuse=recreation_ground”
*/
[out:json][timeout:25];
// gather results
(
  // query part for: “landuse=recreation_ground”
  node[landuse=recreation_ground]({{bbox}});
  way[landuse=recreation_ground]({{bbox}});
  relation[landuse=recreation_ground]({{bbox}});
);
// print results
out body;
;
out skel qt;

Also, Where are the saved queries stored? It's failing to load a couple 
of mine  I'd like to manually retrieve them if possible.


Cheers
Dave F.


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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Ian Dees
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 End of hypothetical situation. It is obvious that something has gone
 wrong, but what, and how could it have been better? Can we expect board
 members to report to the membership about the (perceived?) lack of
 performance of their peers? Or does the membership have to ask questions
 to find out what happens or does not happen?

 ...
  How can the
  OSMF membership hold board members accountable for it?

 Watch what the board are doing, and ask questions. Read the answers you
 get, and ask the questions that arise from them. That's what I would
 suggest, and as a board member I'd actually value it if I saw that
 members were interested in my work. Even if I'd probably have to give
 many an embarrassing answer.


I've seen members and non-members alike ask questions like What does the
OSMF do? and the response is something about putting on a conference (but
really volunteers outside the board do that) and holding on to money.
Essentially, the answer is Nothing, on purpose. When the community (not
just the membership) is told the board is designed not to do anything, then
we stop asking questions because one assumes you can't get doing nothing
wrong. It sounds like that's not the case, though.

The board-membership communications channel is definitely a two-way street,
though. In every other organization I've been a part of, we endeavored to
make sure the membership was aware of what we were doing. They had elected
us and expect results (or at least leadership to facilitate volunteers'
results), after all.

I would expect the board members that *want* to get things done to work as
hard as they can to expose the board-internal squabbles that prevent
action. I'm glad you started that conversation, Frederik.
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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Hans De Kryger
I completely agree with David. I  disagree with mapillary's terms of
service.

Regards,
Hans
On Oct 23, 2014 6:03 AM, Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 On 2014-10-23 11:20, David Cuenca wrote:

 There are many people who record both a gps trace and a video of their
 itinerary.
 Do you think it would be viable to use these videos as a sort of street
 view by associating the frames to a location? When there is no gps
 trace, it could be done by interpolation, defining synchronization
 points between map and video.

 It is not 360°, but at least there would be some images of remote areas.


 For the GoPro, I find its usually more useful in timelapse model.
 ie taking a photo every second, or maybe every 5 or 10 seconds, depends on
 what you are surveying and how fast you are moving.

 The still photos are usually much better quality and higher resolution
 than frames from the video. So more useful for reading housenames etc.
 Plus its easy to geotag all of the photos (I use GeoSetter), then load
 them into JOSM.

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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Mike Thompson
Does anyone know if the video plugin for JOSM works under Windows? I tried
it about a year ago and couldn't get it to work. If it is not working, is
anyone working on a fix or another video plugin?

Mike



On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson j...@betra.is
wrote:

  Well all the images are under CC-BY-SA license

 http://www.mapillary.com/legal.html

 I don't see anyone at the moment making another non-profit solution that
 gives an instant benefit to OSM (via iD editor). Storage space and
 bandwidth are never free while volunteer time is, wether it is programming
 or contributing material, so until then anyone offering a similar service
 will require income to pay for it.

 Mapillary is the best answer to your question at this point in time. That
 is all I can say.


  Þann 23.10.2014 11:33, skrifaði David Cuenca:

   The business activity of the for-profit company Mapillary is not new.
 Before it was acquired by Google, Panoramio did the same:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramio

  I don't see any point in working for free for a private company so they
 can sell their services to third parties. I was asking here to see if there
 is a not-for profit way of reaching the same goal.

  Thanks for your support,
  Micru

 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:

 There is a blog entry about uploading GoPro photos to Mapillary:

 http://blog.mapillary.com/technology/2014/07/21/upload-scripts.html

  Janko

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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Tom MacWright
Panoramio didn't state any open license for uploaded content, so it was
easy for them to go closed with Google. Mapillary does, so it should be as
safe as contributing data to OSM, in terms of what happens if it all goes
away or becomes evil.

I'm sure that everyone would be very supportive of a not-for-profit
alternative, but given the reality of how expensive it is to run and
continuously develop services that intake and distribute a lot of data,
you'd probably need to get a sizeable grant, which would then be
time-limited so would have to pursue another grant every year or two. Or
you would have to take another route that would ruin the idea of open
community purity, like advertising.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com wrote:

 Does anyone know if the video plugin for JOSM works under Windows? I tried
 it about a year ago and couldn't get it to work. If it is not working, is
 anyone working on a fix or another video plugin?

 Mike



 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson j...@betra.is
 wrote:

  Well all the images are under CC-BY-SA license

 http://www.mapillary.com/legal.html

 I don't see anyone at the moment making another non-profit solution that
 gives an instant benefit to OSM (via iD editor). Storage space and
 bandwidth are never free while volunteer time is, wether it is programming
 or contributing material, so until then anyone offering a similar service
 will require income to pay for it.

 Mapillary is the best answer to your question at this point in time. That
 is all I can say.


  Þann 23.10.2014 11:33, skrifaði David Cuenca:

   The business activity of the for-profit company Mapillary is not new.
 Before it was acquired by Google, Panoramio did the same:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramio

  I don't see any point in working for free for a private company so they
 can sell their services to third parties. I was asking here to see if there
 is a not-for profit way of reaching the same goal.

  Thanks for your support,
  Micru

 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:

 There is a blog entry about uploading GoPro photos to Mapillary:

 http://blog.mapillary.com/technology/2014/07/21/upload-scripts.html

  Janko

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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Simon Poole
It has all kinds of problems not that they are not fixable, but stuff
like assuming a fixed 1s GPS recording interval and similar and AFAIK
there was never a stable version released. Given that one of the nice
things about videos is that you don't actually need an exact position
for them to be useful, I never felt motivated enough to spend the time
to fix it.

Simon



Am 23.10.2014 16:48, schrieb Mike Thompson:
 Does anyone know if the video plugin for JOSM works under Windows? I
 tried it about a year ago and couldn't get it to work. If it is not
 working, is anyone working on a fix or another video plugin?
 
 Mike
 
 
 
 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson j...@betra.is
 mailto:j...@betra.is wrote:
 
 Well all the images are under CC-BY-SA license
 
 http://www.mapillary.com/legal.html
 
 I don't see anyone at the moment making another non-profit solution
 that gives an instant benefit to OSM (via iD editor). Storage space
 and bandwidth are never free while volunteer time is, wether it is
 programming or contributing material, so until then anyone offering
 a similar service will require income to pay for it.
 
 Mapillary is the best answer to your question at this point in time.
 That is all I can say.
  
 
 Þann 23.10.2014 11:33, skrifaði David Cuenca:
 The business activity of the for-profit company Mapillary is not
 new. Before it was acquired by Google, Panoramio did the same:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramio

 I don't see any point in working for free for a private company so
 they can sell their services to third parties. I was asking here
 to see if there is a not-for profit way of reaching the same goal.

 Thanks for your support,
 Micru

 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com
 mailto:jan...@gmail.com wrote:

 There is a blog entry about uploading GoPro photos to Mapillary:

 http://blog.mapillary.com/technology/2014/07/21/upload-scripts.html

 Janko

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Kathleen Danielson
Sorry-- looks like I forgot to copy the whole list.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Kathleen Danielson 
kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Frederik,

 You've got a few really interesting ideas in here. Some quick questions:

 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
 wrote:

 Hi,

 On 10/23/2014 01:25 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
  Absolutely no force required. I would hope that the existing board
  members would recognise the virtue of a fresh mandate and a clean start.

 A radical step, but I like it. I'd be more than happy to withdraw my
 candidacy if there was a spirit of rebooting. We wouldn't even need
 seven new candidates; we could simply elect a few and they could then
 add new un-elected board members as they like (article 79 in the AoA).


 I really like this idea, although, as I acknowledged earlier, I definitely
 know there are some challenges.




 Instead of rushing through such an unprecedented measure, we could also
 do it in a more orderly fashion: Have this year's AGM decide that the
 board should prepare to resign altogether at the next AGM, and prepare
 the election of a full new board. This event would then be known long in
 advance and people would have time to prepare their bids for a seat on
 the rebooted body. Independent of the actual legal powers of the AGM,
 certainly no board member could ignore such an express declaration by
 the very people they're serving.


 What if we had some sort of compromise, and we asked the membership if we
 could hold another AGM in 3 months, followed 2 weeks (or so) later by an
 election? We've already talked about decoupling it from SOTM, and given
 what a global project it is, it's unrealistic to expect a majority of
 voting members to be able to attend SOTM. I haven't checked the bylaws, but
 I would guess there's no rule against having *more* than one AGM per year.
 OSM-US has started holding our AGMs remotely. I'm sure other groups do as
 well.

 If we did a 3 month time scale, we still wouldn't be making rash
 decisions, but we would have more chance of maintaining the momentum we've
 seen over the past month or so. The current board could also focus energy
 on preparing things so that there can be a smooth transition, even if there
 is high turnover in the board.



 Another thing, while we're throwing doors wide open. In many political
 systems around the world, the electorate doesn't elect a group of people
 with wildly different goals. Instead, people form parties and the
 electorate decides for a party, and the party will then form the
 government. (Grossly simplifying, I know.) That way, people in
 government have to fight each other to a much lesser degree than they
 would if government were comprised of people following different
 political views and goals.

 By appointing seven directors individually, on the one hand we have the
 advantage that they can keep each other in check; we, as the electorate,
 don't have to be super careful, if we elect someone who's incompetent or
 a kleptomaniac, the others on the board will hopefully notice and fix it
 somehow. On the other hand, there's the danger of seeding the board with
 a couple of difficult personalities that make life hard and reduce
 productiveness for the rest of them.

 Should we perhaps vote for teams? Just like a team can assemble and
 bid for holding a SotM, should we allow a team to bid for being the OSMF
 board for a year?


 This is a really fun idea. I'm not sure if I agree with it, but I LOVE the
 creative thinking for the organization of OSMF.




 Bye
 Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Simon Poole
Sorry for sounding like a broken record to some: there are no EGMs or
AGMs any more under UK law, there are simply general meetings, there is
not even a requirement to have any at all (that is why we are suggesting
adding such a clause to the articles at the GM in Argentina) and you
could just as well have one on 365 days of the year.

The board could realistically schedule a GM with or without elections in
March or April, remote participation is possible since last year so
there are multiple ways to participate. Obviously this depends on the
board actually agreeing to do so except if you want to require one via
the mechanics of a request by the members (needs 5% of the regular
members). As I've pointed out there are other reasons to disassociate
the meeting from SOTM in any case so I wouldn't expect much resistance.

Simon

Am 23.10.2014 17:23, schrieb Kathleen Danielson:
 Sorry-- looks like I forgot to copy the whole list.

 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Kathleen Danielson
 kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com mailto:kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Frederik,

 You've got a few really interesting ideas in here. Some quick
 questions:

 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Frederik Ramm
 frede...@remote.org mailto:frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Hi,

 On 10/23/2014 01:25 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
  Absolutely no force required. I would hope that the existing
 board
  members would recognise the virtue of a fresh mandate and a
 clean start.

 A radical step, but I like it. I'd be more than happy to
 withdraw my
 candidacy if there was a spirit of rebooting. We wouldn't even
 need
 seven new candidates; we could simply elect a few and they
 could then
 add new un-elected board members as they like (article 79 in
 the AoA).

  
 I really like this idea, although, as I acknowledged earlier, I
 definitely know there are some challenges. 

  


 Instead of rushing through such an unprecedented measure, we
 could also
 do it in a more orderly fashion: Have this year's AGM decide
 that the
 board should prepare to resign altogether at the next AGM, and
 prepare
 the election of a full new board. This event would then be
 known long in
 advance and people would have time to prepare their bids for a
 seat on
 the rebooted body. Independent of the actual legal powers of
 the AGM,
 certainly no board member could ignore such an express
 declaration by
 the very people they're serving.


 What if we had some sort of compromise, and we asked the
 membership if we could hold another AGM in 3 months, followed 2
 weeks (or so) later by an election? We've already talked about
 decoupling it from SOTM, and given what a global project it is,
 it's unrealistic to expect a majority of voting members to be able
 to attend SOTM. I haven't checked the bylaws, but I would guess
 there's no rule against having *more* than one AGM per year.
 OSM-US has started holding our AGMs remotely. I'm sure other
 groups do as well.

 If we did a 3 month time scale, we still wouldn't be making rash
 decisions, but we would have more chance of maintaining the
 momentum we've seen over the past month or so. The current board
 could also focus energy on preparing things so that there can be a
 smooth transition, even if there is high turnover in the board. 
  


 Another thing, while we're throwing doors wide open. In many
 political
 systems around the world, the electorate doesn't elect a group
 of people
 with wildly different goals. Instead, people form parties and the
 electorate decides for a party, and the party will then form the
 government. (Grossly simplifying, I know.) That way, people in
 government have to fight each other to a much lesser degree
 than they
 would if government were comprised of people following different
 political views and goals.

 By appointing seven directors individually, on the one hand we
 have the
 advantage that they can keep each other in check; we, as the
 electorate,
 don't have to be super careful, if we elect someone who's
 incompetent or
 a kleptomaniac, the others on the board will hopefully notice
 and fix it
 somehow. On the other hand, there's the danger of seeding the
 board with
 a couple of difficult personalities that make life hard and reduce
 productiveness for the rest of them.

 Should we perhaps vote for teams? Just like a team can
 assemble and
 bid for holding a SotM, should we allow a team to bid for
 being the OSMF
 board for a year?


 

Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Craig Wallace

On 2014-10-23 16:59, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:

On 23/10/2014 15:00, Craig Wallace wrote:

taking a photo every second, or maybe every 5 or 10 seconds, depends
on what you are surveying and how fast you are moving.


Do none of those cameras offer the logical alternative to timelapse - a
'spacelapse' mode that uses the camera's knowledge of position through
its GPS receiver to capture a picture every ten meters instead of every
ten seconds ?


None of the GoPro cameras have GPS built in, so not possible with them. 
Don't know about other brands.


But you can do this with TriggerTrap mobile app. It works with a dongle 
to control a variety of cameras. It has a 'distancelapse' mode, nice 
tutorial here: http://howto.triggertrap.com/howto/road-trip-timelapse/


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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione steve
I'm adding OSMF-talk since it concerns what I outlined in the original “vision 
statement” email.


I was perhaps too specific and jumped ahead saying “world’s best addressable 
map”.


What I really mean is the “world's most complete open map”. There are three 
pieces to a modern map. There's the display piece, the routing and the 
geocoding.


We won the display piece. It looks great. We are ok at routing. Not perfect or 
great, but ok. We're really lacking on the addressing. If we can get addressing 
even to the “ok” stage then a lot more people will use OSM, which means more 
editors, more community and more data. This is because the main use for maps 
today by the public is to get somewhere, and we can't help with that without 
all three pieces. Right now we have 2/3.


I jumped ahead because I see this every day, and I understand not everybody 
does. I think all the other things are good too, even every tree in OSM! I just 
know that if we had to pick one thing to focus on it would be addressing, as it 
will get all the other things to happen faster too. But that doesn't mean you 
can't add trees in to OSM at the same time, just that the shortest path to 
getting more of everything is to get more of addressing.




Also let's be clear - addressing isn't easy. It's complicated and hard. But 
that's a good goal to have, and OSM was complicated and hard in the first place.




Steve





From: Oleksiy Muzalyev
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎October‎ ‎23‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎53‎ ‎AM
To: Jóhannes Birgir Jensson, talk@openstreetmap.org




I agree that addresses is a complicated field. There are different historical 
systems, there are cities where even many streets are without names, etc. There 
is a lot of space for innovation, certainly.

What I meant is that it is not obligatory to map a city or a town addressable 
from one end to another, one house after another, or wait until a municipal 
government releases into public domain its database of addresses (which may be 
not without errors or omissions too).

If there are, say, 10% of buildings where 90% of the population lives, studies 
and works, it makes sense to map them addressable first. Often these are large 
modern buildings with clear addresses.

And it is much easier to return into the same area for the second time, when 
there are already at least some large buildings with numbers, much easier to 
orientate oneself. 

I see from your example that in the city of Reykjavik almost every building has 
a number, so you have a more advanced set of priorities.

Best regards,
Oleksiy


On 23.10.2014 10:39, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:


I like addresses but they don't behave like you would think. For example we 
have a part of a street that has each individual flat as its own address 
number. We first used the number;number;number; approach but I'm now in favor 
of naming the house what it says on the front (the range 37-51) and then put 
address nodes on the building so it appears in search, with roughly the 
position accounting for where in the house the apartment is. In this case the 
numbers closest to the street are at the bottom floor (the stadium approach I 
favor). I'm in favor of moving this same method over to the other houses.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/64.13635/-21.79883

As for being able to search within a specific town or area then I think we 
should look again at relations and super-relations. You could group streets 
relations into a neighborhood relation and then into a town or municipality 
relation etc. This of course works very differently based on country but for 
Iceland I can't see us hitting any limits.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Super-Relation

Regards on behalf of the Icelandic Local Chapter applicant,
Jói


Þann 22.10.2014 18:28, skrifaði Clifford Snow:



On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:04 AM, Oleksiy Muzalyev oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch 
wrote:



It is not necessary to put down a number on each building. It is possible to 
use addr:interpolation (odd, even, or all).

We put down a number on the first building, then on the last, connect them in 
JOSM, and add addr:interpolation: all . For example here: 
http://osm.org/go/0CFn0AZ_d--?m= . It is also very useful on a street with many 
small houses. And it is searchable. For example if there is number 15 and 
number 27 on the map for a street, and they are connected with 
addr:interpolation: odd, and if one searches number 21, the map will show the 
number 21 all right.

Then, there is another approach. We first map addressable large building, where 
a lot of people live or work. Kind of of going after the low-hanging fruit.





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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Toby Murray
I am interested in this as well. I have two Biking Across Kansas tours
worth of video and GPS traces that I still haven't gotten around to
processing into map data yet. I briefly looked at the JOSM video plugin a
while ago and, like someone else reported, couldn't get it working. Maybe
once I finish my current project of getting support for OSM notes into
JOSM-core, I'll take a look at it again...

Toby


On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 5:20 AM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote:

 There are many people who record both a gps trace and a video of their
 itinerary.
 Do you think it would be viable to use these videos as a sort of street
 view by associating the frames to a location? When there is no gps trace,
 it could be done by interpolation, defining synchronization points between
 map and video.

 It is not 360°, but at least there would be some images of remote areas.

 Cheers,
 Micru

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Clifford Snow
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:56 AM, st...@asklater.com wrote:

 I'm adding OSMF-talk since it concerns what I outlined in the
 original “vision statement” email.

 I was perhaps too specific and jumped ahead saying “world’s best
 addressable map”.

 What I really mean is the “world's most complete open map”. There are
 three pieces to a modern map. There's the display piece, the routing and
 the geocoding.


That makes for a better vision statement in my mind that best addressable
map. I might even shorten it to world's most complete map. Why limit
ourselves. We have the means to be the best map, open or otherwise. Getting
to our vision requires setting goals. One of which certainly should be
addressing. I'd like to see the OSMF lead a group to first define our
vision and once complete, to set goals to help us achieve our vision. I'm
one of the crowd that feels the OSMF Board needs to set goals, certainly
with input from the community and user of our data. Those goals should help
the Board prioritize where to spend our limited resources. That requires
leadership from the Board.


 We won the display piece. It looks great. We are ok at routing. Not
 perfect or great, but ok. We're really lacking on the addressing. If we can
 get addressing even to the “ok” stage then a lot more people will use OSM,
 which means more editors, more community and more data. This is because the
 main use for maps today by the public is to get somewhere, and we can't
 help with that without all three pieces. Right now we have 2/3.

 I jumped ahead because I see this every day, and I understand not
 everybody does. I think all the other things are good too, even every tree
 in OSM! I just know that if we had to pick one thing to focus on it would
 be addressing, as it will get all the other things to happen faster too.
 But that doesn't mean you can't add trees in to OSM at the same time, just
 that the shortest path to getting more of everything is to get more of
 addressing.


Talk to emergency response teams, not only do they need addressing to get
to response sites, but they need to know where every member of their team
resides and how to get them to the response site. This is an area where OSM
can shine.


 Also let's be clear - addressing isn't easy. It's complicated and hard.
 But that's a good goal to have, and OSM was complicated and hard in the
 first place.


Clifford


-- 
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osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Oleksiy Muzalyev
This is selfevident. Without more or less complete addresses the map
cannot be used in, say, an ambulance application, or in a delivery
service application, etc. It is unusable.

But if there is a /critical mass/ of addresses for a town or a city,
then the rest could be completed by the same ambulance or delivery
service drivers. They actually drive to a certain address, and may mark
it on the map for future calls or deliveries.

On the other hand, in mountains I always rely on GPS traces, as a GPS
trace means that someone really walked this way. A GPS trace is the most
important in mountains. So World's most complete map seems to be OK.

brgds
Oleksiy


On 23.10.2014 18:56, st...@asklater.com wrote:
 ...
 What I really mean is the “world's most complete open map”. There are
 three pieces to a modern map. There's the display piece, the routing
 and the geocoding.

 We won the display piece. It looks great. We are ok at routing. Not
 perfect or great, but ok. We're really lacking on the addressing...

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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Jóhannes Birgir Jensson

Thanks for creating this project in the first place Steve.

In an interview earlier this year you said pretty much the same thing. I 
believe this is a vital step forward in the First World countries where 
other competing solutions, both local and global, are not delivering enough.


However I disagree that this might be THE key issue. Where we are 
lacking even more at the moment is the world we knew previously as Third 
World but as Hans Rosling has demonstrated that name does not mean 
anything anymore.


Let me take Botswana as an example, a project I've been trying to get 
rolling for the past year as Mapping Botswana. They do not have many 
addresses at all, in the newest areas they are creating US-style 
cul-de-sacs and putting addresses and streetnames but in the capital 
itself, Gaborone, the older areas are designed as plots, arbitrarily 
sized areas that encompass many buildings so your address will be Plot 
525 and then you need to look for the correct sign to find the correct 
building. This plot data is currently not under a license we can work with.


Elsewhere the rural villages are a mishmash of roads and paths and 
arbitrarily placed buildings mostly, with no street names or anything. 
The only thing we could use there is a census number that each 
residential building is supposed to be assigned. I doubt they were 
intended as addresses but we are looking into it.


The offline apps and tools are vital here - in Africa, Asia and Latin 
America where mobile networks are still slow, still unreliable for 
coverage and data usage often pricey. Not to mention the map coverage is 
often limited to a name on commercial maps. This is where OSM makes a 
huge difference.


I live in a country where Google has already StreetViewed most of it, a 
local service ja.is has imported all official address data (including 
bad data) and they also made their own version of StreetView called 
360°. In Iceland we are up against corporations who are doing their 
utmost to make a good map and so we try even harder to be better. But we 
don't kid ourselves, if Iceland were deleted from OSM then there would 
still be good online maps from these other providers. The offline 
feature starts to give OSM an edge - they are something we should strive 
to make better, something done by many app makers, some of the good and 
some of the poor.


If however Botswana were deleted then there are small parts of Botswana 
who would still enjoy pretty decent coverage on Bing and Google but all 
the rural areas, villages and hamlets, are not there. The HOTOSM 
projects and related ones are what is giving OSM the bite, in my view.


Delete the ebola-affected areas from OSM and you set back local efforts 
and local knowledge with devastating results. Delete New York City data 
and you can still get around on Google or Bing or whatever, although you 
are missing out on many great improvements that have been made.


This is my view of OSM, it matters most where there are no other 
alternatives.


Best wishes,
Jóhannes


Þann 23.10.2014 16:56, skrifaði st...@asklater.com:
I'm adding OSMF-talk since it concerns what I outlined in the 
original “vision statement” email.


I was perhaps too specific and jumped ahead saying “world’s best 
addressable map”.


What I really mean is the “world's most complete open map”. There are 
three pieces to a modern map. There's the display piece, the routing 
and the geocoding.


We won the display piece. It looks great. We are ok at routing. Not 
perfect or great, but ok. We're really lacking on the addressing. If 
we can get addressing even to the “ok” stage then a lot more people 
will use OSM, which means more editors, more community and more data. 
This is because the main use for maps today by the public is to get 
somewhere, and we can't help with that without all three pieces. Right 
now we have 2/3.


I jumped ahead because I see this every day, and I understand not 
everybody does. I think all the other things are good too, even every 
tree in OSM! I just know that if we had to pick one thing to focus on 
it would be addressing, as it will get all the other things to happen 
faster too. But that doesn't mean you can't add trees in to OSM at the 
same time, just that the shortest path to getting more of everything 
is to get more of addressing.


Also let's be clear - addressing isn't easy. It's complicated and 
hard. But that's a good goal to have, and OSM was complicated and hard 
in the first place.


Steve

*From:* Oleksiy Muzalyev mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch
*Sent:* ‎Thursday‎, ‎October‎ ‎23‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎53‎ ‎AM
*To:* Jóhannes Birgir Jensson mailto:j...@betra.is, 
talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org


I agree that addresses is a complicated field. There are different 
historical systems, there are cities where even many streets are 
without names, etc. There is a lot of space for innovation, certainly.


What I meant is that it is not obligatory to map a city 

Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Stefan Keller
Hi Kate


2014-10-23 16:37 GMT+02:00 Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote:
 Perhaps the issues in the board is a lack of respect for each other.

I don't see any disrespect from Simon when he referred to you speaking
about you (and others) wishing to see more OSMF members.
On the other hand I assume that you are aware that your accusation to
Simon is explicit and sidetracks this thread.

I'd love to come back to your suggestions - as far as I can follow you
- and to questions raised before I don't see any statements so far:

* I don't see any evidence that the OSMF is fundamentally broken.
* And I don't see enough reasons why the full board should step down
(not speaking about the lack of alternatives and bad timing)
* Of course community should be involved - but there are enough items
now on the agenda Frederik suggested (and I summarized above) which
simply need to be put on the boards agenda.
* Given board members are coming from several continents, I don't see
why the board should meet face-to-face when there exist video meeting
facilities.
* On the other hand I'd like to really know what you (and others)
think about Frederik's points raised in his manifesto as well as these
questions to the board members: [1].

Yours, Stefan

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Foundation/AGM14/Election_to_Board


2014-10-23 16:37 GMT+02:00 Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com:
 Hi Simon

 On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:06 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:


 Kate was complaining about the on boarding of new board members, she got
 at least an order of magnitude more support than Frederik and myself
 did, I don't think that there is any -accessible- board related
 institutional memory of note that is tied to board members. I do have to
 point to and thank Andy Robinson for his support in providing filing and
 mail services to the foundation for a very long time.


 I suggest you rethink your choice of words about me complaining. I was
 suggesting there are better ways to onboard people to the board. Frankly I
 was fine with my on boarding, simply because I've served on other boards
 before so I understand generally how it works. That is not the case for
 everyone else who becomes part of the OSMF Foundation board.

 Perhaps the issues in the board is a lack of respect for each other.

 -Kate





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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

2014-10-23 Per discussione David Cuenca
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 But you can do this with TriggerTrap mobile app. It works with a dongle to
 control a variety of cameras. It has a 'distancelapse' mode, nice tutorial
 here: http://howto.triggertrap.com/howto/road-trip-timelapse/


Nice feature! I have sent a couple of emails to action cam manufacturers
requesting a distance lapse function.

It would be practical if the cams had it included already.

Micru
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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione David Cuenca
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 6:56 PM, st...@asklater.com wrote:

  What I really mean is the “world's most complete open map”. There are
 three pieces to a modern map. There's the display piece, the routing and
 the geocoding.

 We won the display piece. It looks great. We are ok at routing. Not
 perfect or great, but ok. We're really lacking on the addressing. If we can
 get addressing even to the “ok” stage then a lot more people will use OSM,
 which means more editors, more community and more data. This is because the
 main use for maps today by the public is to get somewhere, and we can't
 help with that without all three pieces. Right now we have 2/3.


A map is a representation of the world, and the most accurate it is, the
more it helps. Given the current circumstances OSM is doing great at
displaying, but the circumstances keep changing all the time and other
actors are pushing forward, building up 3d models that later on can be used
in mixed applications, and overlaying all kinds of data.

I agree that most people just want to know how to get from A to B, the
travel options available, and how long it takes. But then there is the
whole business/tourism searching, etc. because a map is never just a map,
it is a tool to make the most of the world.

If you want to build the world's most complete open map, then you need to
take into account all aspects needed for representing the world, which is
basically *everything*.

Anyhow, as mission it is challenging enough :)

Cheers,
Micru
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[OSM-talk] Een klein verhaaltje / A little story

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
Via de tool van Sander zag ik een straat waar ik nog geen huis nummers van
had. Het was verleidelijk om de nummers gewoon snel te copiëren. Maar omdat
ik toch met de honden buiten moest, besloot ik maar om een ommetje te maken
langs die voor mij onbekende straat. Wat bracht deze kleine survey op naast
de huisnummers ? Een zone 30, een gedenksteen aan Frans Abels (een
toondichter 1899-1962) en een ontbreken pad en een vuilbak. En dat enkel op
en ommetje van 10 minuten.
Moraal van het verhaal ? Voor mij volstaat het kopieren van nummertjes uit
AGIV Crab niet, ik kan beter met de honden gaan wandelen. Dan vergaar ik
meer gevarieerde data en leer ik nog iets bij :-)


From Sander's tool for the AGIV Crab import I saw a street in which I
didn't collect house numbers so far. It was tempting to just copy the
numbers. But since I needed to walk the dogs I decided to pass through that
street. So what did I discover during this short survey ? A zone 30, a
memorial for Frans Abels, and a missing path. It was just 10 minutes extra
compared to our normal walk.
Conclusion ? For me it is not sufficient to just copy numbers from a
database. It's better to go out for a walk with the dogs. Using this method
I collect more diverse data en I learn something along the way

groeten/regards

m
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[OSM-talk] AGM announcements

2014-10-23 Per discussione Rob Nickerson
Simon wrote:

The scheduling issue is real and it flatly wouldn't have been possible to
formally
announce in time (which would have had to been 60 days back to give
enough time to avoid the cut off without undue haste). The solution to
this will likely be to disassociate GM scheduling from the SOTM event so
that we can plan the GM well in advance.


Indeed the task of organising the SotM program is a challenging one making
it difficult to provide an exact time early on (a few more days earlier
could be possible, but not 60).

What is however possible is to confirm the day. It was probably always
going to be the Saturday as the Friday before is a paid conference day and
we like to have the last day to reflect on what the new membership means
for the Foundation.

I often feel that we let perfection get in the way of getting on and doing.
Sometimes perfection is a good thing, but in this case I feel we could have
got an initial message out with the formal confirmation following.

Best,
Rob
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

2014-10-23 Per discussione Clifford Snow
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:23 AM, Kathleen Danielson 
kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote:

 What if we had some sort of compromise, and we asked the membership if we
 could hold another AGM in 3 months, followed 2 weeks (or so) later by an
 election? We've already talked about decoupling it from SOTM, and given
 what a global project it is, it's unrealistic to expect a majority of
 voting members to be able to attend SOTM. I haven't checked the bylaws, but
 I would guess there's no rule against having *more* than one AGM per year.
 OSM-US has started holding our AGMs remotely. I'm sure other groups do as
 well.

 If we did a 3 month time scale, we still wouldn't be making rash
 decisions, but we would have more chance of maintaining the momentum we've
 seen over the past month or so. The current board could also focus energy
 on preparing things so that there can be a smooth transition, even if there
 is high turnover in the board.


I think it is reasonable postpone elections for three months considering
current turmoil. With apologies to those that submitted their name in a
timely fashion, let's ask for more candidates. We should also expect them
to answer questions from the community. And as Richard said, maybe it the
time for the rest of the Board to step down. They are more than welcome to
submit their name for re-election. It appears to this outsider that not all
Board members have been present.

The new Board should take up a strategy to prevent burnout. As anyone who
has ever served on a board, it is a tireless job with people constantly
complaining about your decisions. At the same time, Board members need to
step down if they can continue to actively participate. If they don't the
Board needs to ask for their resignation.

There has also been derogatory comments made about Steve. While only have
playing with OSM for the past three years, I've known Steve that entire
time. He has been an energetic supporter of OSM. Hurricane and Steve
started and actively participated in the Seattle Meetup Group, which is one
of the more successful groups in the US. Steve even led by example. He
walked the streets in my neighborhood to prove that addresses don't have to
come from imports. Of course it turned out we were too lazy and decided on
an import instead.

I can't speak to the old Steve, but my experiences for the past three
years have been nothing but positive. (and no I didn't join Map Club.)

Lastly, I'd like to remind everyone that the Board works for us. We should
expect them to get our input before changing directions. As Kate has
proposed, the Board should annually survey the community to get our input.
As much as I respect Steve, if he get elected, even he needs consult with
the community before setting goals. And we the community needs to hold the
Board accountable to us. I'd like to propose that the new Board survey the
community annually. We should also expect them to build a vision for OSM.
While it appears that our current mission statement was constructed by the
board, the vision statement needs to be developed by the community with the
Board acting as a facilitator.

Clifford
-- 
@osm_seattle
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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[OSM-talk] Candidate reminder: Membership status and questions to canidates

2014-10-23 Per discussione Paul Norman

This a reminder to candidates that board members need to be members, not 
associate members. You should contact members...@osmfoundation.org to change 
your status from associate member to member if needed. I am not sure what would 
happen if someone with the most votes was not eligible to be a board member. 
Let's not find out, so make sure to mail to change it.

See 82 of the AoA, as well as probably the Companies act.

There are also a number of questions to candidates at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Foundation/AGM14/Election_to_Board. 
This has been the primary method of asking candidates questions in the past, so 
please make an effort to answer them. I haven't yet myself, but intend to this 
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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Johan C
2014-10-23 8:57 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 First question: how do you build the world's best addressable map ?
 Through imports or survey ? Is the timeframe that Martin puts forward fur
 surveyed addresses acceptable and feasible ?

 As for the imports:

 Wouldn't it be great that we would have import tools that can be used by
 many groups ? Just as we have great editors for manual mapping.
 Shouldn't the OSMF (or however) invest in a procedure + tools for import ?

 So when a group wants to perform an import, they only have make sure the
 license is compatible and the data has enough quality. The process of the
 import is already described, the tools ( task managers, data conversion,
 some quality checks etc.) are in place. They deliver the data and the
 import can start.
 I have the impression that right now each group has to take all those
 obstacles all by themselves.

 Maybe I have a totally wrong perception of the import process. please
 correct me if that's the case.

 regards

 m


I partially share your impression that each group has to take obstacles by
themselves. Since OSM is a social project I think it's good that people
with experience on (importing) addresses and buildings share their
experience. I see this happen on the @import list, user diaries etc. The
somewhat scattered knowledge around could however be shared more
centralized to make it a bit more accessible, so I created a page on the
wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Importing_buildings_and_addresses)
in which anybody can share their knowledge (I will do so this November).
Furthermore, SOTM Buenos Aires hosts 2 presentations on addresses.

I don't see manual work for OSM as an obstacle. Any import (or survey :-) )
requires some manual work because the current map is far from blank, so the
almost full-automatic import you describe is IMHO not possible. Though
semi-automatic assistance by tools (like the wonderful Geofabrik inspector
address view) help a lot keeping the work fun.

As for tools: it would help when more tools for importing and updating
could be programmed. As an example: I'm not aware of any tool which makes
it possible to semi-automatically compare building outlines to the outlines
of an updated government database, highlighting major differences in
geometry.

On the role of the OSMF: I think it shouldn't be the OSMF investing in a
procedure + tools. It would already be great and an energizing factor when
(members of) OSMF would express support for having more address and
building data in OSM, be it either from surveys or from imports.

Cheers, Johan



 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
 wrote:

 Steve Coast suggested changing the mission statement of OSM to be
 something like “The world’s best addressable map” I thought
 I'd separate out this into a new thread. As some backup, I attended my
 first SOTM-US in 2012 where Steve proposed we build an addressable map. A
 group of us from Seattle decided that we'd take that challenge and import
 addresses for Seattle. That import was completed.

 Here are the address related comments:

 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:37 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:

 2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Steve Coast st...@asklater.com:

 Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3
 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better,
 we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed map
 ever again, and it would be people like you that made it happen.




 I agree with you that addressing is very important for a lot of
 commercial (and non-commercial) map users. What I don't understand is how a
 paid board would help us map more addresses. Unfortunately mapping
 addresses is typically less fun than going to the video arcade. Looking at
 the current figures we are not doing too bad. Currently there are 130
 Million buildings in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers. I don't know exactly
 how many buildings there are in the world, and how many of them don't have
 addresses, but I guess it will be at least 1 Billion addresses in the
 world, probably more. According to the stats page we have roughly 25.000
 active contributors a month (
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contributor_Stats ). To get an
 address on all currently mapped buildings in three years time, (84M to go),
 every active contributor would have to add 93 addresses a month -
 constantly. To get 1 Billion addresses mapped by 25.000 contributors in 3
 yrs, it would be  housenumbers a month per active contributor. Are we
 planning to pay the mappers as well? The only solution seems to get more
 contributors mapping, and have them insert addresses.


 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:59 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote:

 It would be nice to know how many of the buildings and house numbers in
 OSM were imported versus surveyed / drawn by hand. I have a bad feeling
 about how 

[OSM-talk] Simon Poole resigns

2014-10-23 Per discussione Rob Nickerson
I've only spotted this on OSMF-talk so far but feel it should be shared
here:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-October/002773.html

I'm still reading through the OSMF-talk mailing list, but so far it looks
like Simon has not yet provided any reason (which is fine for now as heat
of the moment messages can turn out to be very bad).

Thank you Simon for your work and input into the OSMF Board.

Regards,
Rob
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Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map

2014-10-23 Per discussione Marc Gemis
It was not my intention to set up a full-automatic import. I wanted to come
to a automatic process where the data is made available to mappers for
import. E.g. the complete tool chain used by the Dutch import could be
available to other countries. So they can easily use the same programs,
infrastructure, etc. They just need to provide the data to be imported. The
tool chain processes the data and makes it available for download by e.g. a
JOSM plugin , a task manager or whatever. From there the manual step starts
(downlaod, merge + correct + upload).

Hope this clarifies what my ideas are.

My apologies for my ignorance, but even after looking at some video's of
SOTM on what OSMF and the different working groups are doing it is still
not clear to me whether there is a group that could start looking for
funding such an import tool chain and infrastructure.
For me, when someone states our mission is XXX', they also have to provide
the resources to achieve that, or at least support people that want to work
on it. So on one hand I read a mission statement and a question on how to
define the new playground, but you are now saying that a question for toys
on the playground should not asked at that group ? Or am I mixing people
and groups ?

regards

m

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 12:59 AM, Johan C osm...@gmail.com wrote:

 2014-10-23 8:57 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:

 First question: how do you build the world's best addressable map ?
 Through imports or survey ? Is the timeframe that Martin puts forward fur
 surveyed addresses acceptable and feasible ?

 As for the imports:

 Wouldn't it be great that we would have import tools that can be used by
 many groups ? Just as we have great editors for manual mapping.
 Shouldn't the OSMF (or however) invest in a procedure + tools for import ?

 So when a group wants to perform an import, they only have make sure the
 license is compatible and the data has enough quality. The process of the
 import is already described, the tools ( task managers, data conversion,
 some quality checks etc.) are in place. They deliver the data and the
 import can start.
 I have the impression that right now each group has to take all those
 obstacles all by themselves.

 Maybe I have a totally wrong perception of the import process. please
 correct me if that's the case.

 regards

 m


 I partially share your impression that each group has to take obstacles by
 themselves. Since OSM is a social project I think it's good that people
 with experience on (importing) addresses and buildings share their
 experience. I see this happen on the @import list, user diaries etc. The
 somewhat scattered knowledge around could however be shared more
 centralized to make it a bit more accessible, so I created a page on the
 wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Importing_buildings_and_addresses)
 in which anybody can share their knowledge (I will do so this November).
 Furthermore, SOTM Buenos Aires hosts 2 presentations on addresses.

 I don't see manual work for OSM as an obstacle. Any import (or survey :-)
 ) requires some manual work because the current map is far from blank, so
 the almost full-automatic import you describe is IMHO not possible. Though
 semi-automatic assistance by tools (like the wonderful Geofabrik inspector
 address view) help a lot keeping the work fun.

 As for tools: it would help when more tools for importing and updating
 could be programmed. As an example: I'm not aware of any tool which makes
 it possible to semi-automatically compare building outlines to the outlines
 of an updated government database, highlighting major differences in
 geometry.

 On the role of the OSMF: I think it shouldn't be the OSMF investing in a
 procedure + tools. It would already be great and an energizing factor when
 (members of) OSMF would express support for having more address and
 building data in OSM, be it either from surveys or from imports.

 Cheers, Johan



 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
 wrote:

 Steve Coast suggested changing the mission statement of OSM to be
 something like “The world’s best addressable map” I thought
 I'd separate out this into a new thread. As some backup, I attended my
 first SOTM-US in 2012 where Steve proposed we build an addressable map. A
 group of us from Seattle decided that we'd take that challenge and import
 addresses for Seattle. That import was completed.

 Here are the address related comments:

 On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:37 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:

 2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Steve Coast st...@asklater.com:

 Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3
 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better,
 we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed 
 map
 ever again, and it would be people like you that made it happen.




 I agree with you that addressing is very important for a 

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Maps for townland plotting

2014-10-23 Per discussione John Kennedy
Howdy. Working through the videos/process. Some small questions/observations...

Do you want the reserve/freeing process in Mapcraft apply to when you
are editing the townlands in OSM or just when perparing the
map/rectification in mapwarper?

In Josm 7643 importing townland boudaries styles etc I notice the
Irish options do not appear as per youtube video (at least for me):
Irish Map Paint Styles seems to appear in list as townland.mapcss
Irish Tagging Presets seems to appear in list as irishboundaries.xml

Cheers,
 - jk

On 22 October 2014 18:06, Donal Diamond donal.diam...@gmail.com wrote:
 Uploaded:
 http://mapwarper.net/maps/4820

 Good Luck!

 D


 On 22 October 2014 16:52, Mark Tully markjtu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Could I please request 20/21 NW

 Thanks,
 Mark

 On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Donal Diamond donal.diam...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  IRL-GSGS-3906-26-21-NE-Clane.tif  uploaded
 
  http://mapwarper.net/maps/4800
 
  D
 
  On 20 October 2014 16:45, John Kennedy jkenned...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Impressive work. I would like to request
26/21 NE
  
   Thx,
- John
  
   On 19 October 2014 21:42, Patrick Matthews mullinalag...@gmail.com
   wrote:
Thanks Donal
   
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Donal Diamond 
  donal.diam...@gmail.com
wrote:
   
On 19 October 2014 16:47, Patrick Matthews mullinalag...@gmail.com
 
wrote:
   
 I would like to request

 20-27-NW,
 20-27-SW,
 20-27-SE,
 23-27-SW.

   
Done:
   
   
   
   
  
 
 http://mapwarper.net/maps?field=titlequery=IRL-GSGS-3906-20-27show_warped=0
   
   
   
  
 
 http://mapwarper.net/maps?field=titlequery=IRL-GSGS-3906-23-27show_warped=0
   
Donal
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Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt

2014-10-23 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer
Am 23. Oktober 2014 03:21 schrieb Wolfgang Hinsch osm-lis...@ivkasogis.de:

   Ich vermute, dass das mit der kaputten Platte auf dem devserver
   zusammenhängt auf dem dieses komische iLike OSM läuft.
 
  Das wars ich hab das fürs Erste mal im Quellcode auskommentiert.
 

 Von mir aus kann es auskommentiert bleiben. Wer brauchts?



brauchen wäre übertrieben, aber vielleicht gibt es ja ein paar spannende
Ergebnisse? Gibt es denn die dabei angefallenen Daten noch oder sind die
mit der Platte kaputtgegangen? Wurden da schonmal Auswertungen gezeigt?
Wurden bei dem Test interessante Erkenntnisse gewonnen?

Gruß,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt

2014-10-23 Per discussione Michael Kugelmann

Am 23.10.2014 03:21, schrieb Wolfgang Hinsch

Das wars ich hab das fürs Erste mal im Quellcode auskommentiert.

Von mir aus kann es auskommentiert bleiben. Wer brauchts?

+1


Grüße,
Michael.


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Re: [Talk-de] Handy Halterung Fahrrad Mapillary?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Peter Neubauer
Ja,
ich habe gerade einen Finn von Daniel (CityBikeGuide) bekommen und wir
testen. Ich hoffe dass es gut funktioniert - die Halterung is super
zum mitnehmen.

Das Einzige ist dass Querformat mit grossen Handys nicht optimal ist,
aber da können wir vielleicht noch produktmässig ein wenig Einfluss
ausüben.

Werde versuchen unser Ergebnisse zu bloggen!

/peter

2014-09-21 17:20 GMT+02:00 Kolossos t...@alder-digital.de:
 Der Finn tut seinen Job auf Asphalt, aber schon auf Kopfsteinpflaster
 verwackeln die Bilder[1]. Für MTB-Strecken empfehle ich die eine
 Helmhalterung, weil da die Evolution einen zusätzlichen Stoßdämpfer
 eingebaut hat (deinen Kopf).
 Direktes Sonnenlicht hilft die Belichtungszeit kurz zu halten.
 Den Luftdruck im Vorderreifen zu reduzieren hilft etwas.

 Grüße Tim

 [1]http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/HBMFQnhirrAO5VJTa_dxqA
http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/M1VI7XDQX8tYWYvn_9rUOg

 Am 21.09.2014 um 11:25 schrieb Jochen:
 Für Grazer kann es nur eine Lösung geben: Finn von BikeCityGuide, die
 haben doch ihre Zentrale vor Ort.
 Sprich die doch mal direkt an. Soweit ich weiß, sind noch weitere
 Halterungen in Entwicklung.
 Finn hat den Eurobike Award 2014 bekommen. http://getfinn.com/de/
 Ich habe eine Mittelkamera am Smartphone und ziehe immer einen
 Eckenspanner zur anderen Seite: Das hält auf übelstem Kopfsteinpflaster:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqDNN4gdJys
 Ungefedertes Hollandrad, Kamera so tief eingestellt, dass man keine
 Personen sieht.

 Beste Grüße aus DD

 Jochen

 Finn kann man auch gut am Rucksack fixieren.

 Am 20.09.2014 um 13:53 schrieb Lars Schimmer:
 Hallo

 Ich bin ein wenig stärker auf den Mapillary.com Zug aufgesprungen und
 habe bisher einiges in Graz aus der Hand aufgenommen und in Mapillary
 geuploaded. Soweit so gut.
 Nun möcht ich das auch auf meinen Radtouren am MTB versuchen, aber die
 Freihand-Aufnahme ist da blöde.
 Hat jemand eine geeignete Halterung/Idee fürs Handy am MTB, damit die
 Kamera nach vorne zeigt, das Handy ned zu sehr wackelt, das Display zum
 Fahrer zeigt und NICHT berührt wird (scharf stellen, stop klicken,...
 darf ned aus versehen durch irgendwas an der Halterung passieren).

 Die normalen Halterungen taugen nix, weil die nicht die Kamera nach
 vorne zeigen lassen :-/

 Danke.

 http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/bbox/47.0118827819824/47.1345024108887/15.3497133255005/15.534200668335


 Oder auch Hildesheim/Mera Luna ;-)

 MfG,
 Lars Schimmer


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Re: [Talk-de] Handy Halterung Fahrrad Mapillary?

2014-10-23 Per discussione Holger Jeromin
Lars Schimmer wrote on 20.09.2014 13:53:
 Hat jemand eine geeignete Halterung/Idee fürs Handy am MTB, damit die
 Kamera nach vorne zeigt, das Handy ned zu sehr wackelt, das Display zum
 Fahrer zeigt und NICHT berührt wird (scharf stellen, stop klicken,...
 darf ned aus versehen durch irgendwas an der Halterung passieren).
 
 Die normalen Halterungen taugen nix, weil die nicht die Kamera nach
 vorne zeigen lassen :-/

Hab den Westen von Aachen mit der Konstruktion mapillariert (? :-)

http://imgur.com/zQBbQk9
http://imgur.com/pBVXV5X

Rohrisolation aus dem Baummarkt mit Schlitz nach oben mit insg vier
Kabelbindern am Lenker festgemacht.

Dämpft vibrationen nicht sehr gut, aber solang man auf Straßen fährt
ists prima.

Im Prinzip die Minimalversion von
http://www.bodenseepeter.de/2014/07/01/how-to-street-view-a-bike-path-for-a-penny/

Die Kartonbastellei hab ich auch fertig gestellt, aber nicht am Rad
montiert. Die kann ich nun an die Sonnenblende im Auto hängen. :-)

-- 
Grüße
Holger


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[Talk-de] devserver gauss.openstreetmap.de down

2014-10-23 Per discussione Sven Geggus
Hallo zusammen,

weil sich die Mails häufen die mich darauf aufmerksam machen möchten,
dass der devserver gauss.openstreetmap.de derzeit down ist.

Ja, das habe ich durchaus schon gemerkt. Der Punkt warum ich noch
einen Moment warte von Strato die defekte Platte austauschen zu
lassen ist, dass ich den Nutzern des Servers noch die Möglichkeit der
Datenrettung geben möchte so das noch möglich ist.

Stellt euch einfach auf 1-2 Wochen downtime ein und schickt bitte
keine Email mehr an webmas...@openstreetmap.de mit dem Hinweis, dass
der Server down is.

Gruss

Sven

-- 
Software is like sex; it's better when it's free
  (Linus Torvalds)

/me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web

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Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt

2014-10-23 Per discussione Pascal Neis

Hi,

Wolfgang Hinsch schrieb:


Von mir aus kann es auskommentiert bleiben. Wer brauchts?


die Idee dahinter kennst du?

Wir (Frederik  ich) hatten eigentlich vor zwei Jahren [1]
etwas ähnliches geplant was vor kurzen von jemand anderem unter
dem Titel Predicting data curation in OpenStreetMap[2] gezeigt
wurde.

Also auf Basis der Information WO sich jemand die online Karte
ansieht und den Infos z.B. von der Bevölkerungsdichte Statistiken
zu generieren wo evtl. eine gute oder schlechte Vollständigkeit
vorliegt.

Leider haben wir beide es bis heute nicht geschafft uns die
gewonnenen Daten mal anzuschauen und vlt. nützliche Infos im Bezug
auf Deutschland zu generieren. Die gesammelten Daten sind aber
für jeden verfügbar und können genutzt werden[3] (ging bis zur
Downtime des Servers).

Viele Grüße
Pascal

[1] http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/ilike.pdf
[2] https://www.mapbox.com/blog/osm-tracing-candidates/
[3] http://ilike.openstreetmap.de/

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Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt

2014-10-23 Per discussione Pascal Neis

Hi,

Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb:

brauchen wäre übertrieben, aber vielleicht gibt es ja ein paar spannende
Ergebnisse? Gibt es denn die dabei angefallenen Daten noch oder sind die
mit der Platte kaputtgegangen? Wurden da schonmal Auswertungen gezeigt?
Wurden bei dem Test interessante Erkenntnisse gewonnen?


iLikeOSM wird mit der jetzigen OSM-DE Server-Downtime eingestellt.
Es gab leider in der Vergangenheit mehr negatives als positives
Feedback. Sicherlich hat dies u.a. auch daran gelegen hat das wir
nicht so schön aufbereitete Ergebnisse wie andere zeigen konnten ;)

Wie ich in der anderen Mail[1] erwähnt habe, sind/sollten
aber zumindest die bis heute gesammelten Infos nicht verloren
gehen und können für eine Analyse bis heute verwendet werden.

Viele Grüße
Pascal

[1] 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2014-October/109615.html



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[Talk-de] Neues von der OSM Foundation

2014-10-23 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hallo,

   vermutlich ist das an der deutschen Community weitgehend
vorbeigegangen, aber in den letzten Tagen hat es doch einigen Sturm im
Wassserglas der osmf-talk-Mailingliste gegeben.

Vermutlich war ich nicht ganz unschuldig, ich hatte mich zur Wiederwahl
im Vorstand gestellt und dabei auf eine Reihe von Missständen
hingewiesen, die leider immer noch bestehen. Daraufhin entstand eine
größere Diskussion, die teils auf osmf-talk und teils auf talk geführt
wurde. So die alten Themen, wie viel Führung braucht die OSMF, wozu sind
wir eigentlich da, sollten wir nicht lieber viel mehr Adressen
importieren, blabla. Jeder hat mal wieder alles gesagt, was er oder sie
scheisse findet und was man vielleicht schon längst hätte besser machen
sollen. Dann trat wieder unser grosser alter Vorsitzender Steve Coast
auf den Plan und kündigte an, für den Vorstand zu kandidieren. In Folge
hat unser aktueller Vorstandsvorsitzender, Simon Poole, seinen
sofortigen Rücktritt erklärt.

Das heisst also, bei der anstehenden Wahl gibt es nun drei Posten zu
besetzen.

Es steht auch die Diskussion im Raum, ob man nicht den kompletten
Vorstand neuwählen sollte oder sonst irgendwelche radikalen Massnahmen
ergreifen, aber das wird vermutlich nicht so kurzfristig passieren,
eher, wenn überhaupt, dann über eine spezielle Vollversammlung oder so.

Die wesentlichen Beiträge sind wohl alle auf
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-October/thread.html,
bis auf einige, die nur auf der talk-Liste erschienen sind (zum
Schreiben auf osmf-talk muss man OSMF-Mitglied sein).

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [Talk-de] Neues von der OSM Foundation

2014-10-23 Per discussione Christoph Hormann
On Thursday 23 October 2014, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 [...] In Folge hat unser aktueller
 Vorstandsvorsitzender, Simon Poole, seinen sofortigen Rücktritt
 erklärt.

 Das heisst also, bei der anstehenden Wahl gibt es nun drei Posten zu
 besetzen.

Ist das überhaupt möglich - ich meine ein paar Stunden vor Ende der 
Nominierungs-Frist mal eben die Anzahl der Posten für die die Leute 
antreten von 2 auf 3 zu erhöhen?

Meiner Ansicht nach dürfen sich bei einer ordentlichen Wahl die 
Rahmenbedingungen nach Beginn der Nominierung nicht mehr ändern, 
ansonsten muss das Verfahren neu gestartet werden - rein schon aus 
Respekt vor den Kandidaten.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-de] Neues von der OSM Foundation

2014-10-23 Per discussione Dietmar Seifert
Hallo,

ich wünschte mir, Simon würde seinen Rücktritt mal offen kommunizieren
mit Begründung. Schade, das er das gemacht hat oder besser, das er sich
dazu genötigt sah.

Ich finde es gut, das die Probleme im Board vor der Kandidatenwahl
publiziert wurden, danke Frederik dafür!

Die Aktion von Steve, sich als Retter zu präsentieren, ist
kontraproduktiv angesichts der Beiträge Einiger, wie er früher im Board
agiert hat.

Wirklich schlimm finde ich, das drei Board Mitglieder immer noch nicht
an der Diskussion teilnehmen. Wann, wenn nicht jetzt, müssten alle, aber
auch alle Boardmitglieder (und nebenbei auch alle Neukandidaten), sich
mal positionieren?

viele Grüße
Dietmar


Am 23.10.2014 20:14, schrieb Frederik Ramm:
 Hallo,

vermutlich ist das an der deutschen Community weitgehend
 vorbeigegangen, aber in den letzten Tagen hat es doch einigen Sturm im
 Wassserglas der osmf-talk-Mailingliste gegeben.

 Vermutlich war ich nicht ganz unschuldig, ich hatte mich zur Wiederwahl
 im Vorstand gestellt und dabei auf eine Reihe von Missständen
 hingewiesen, die leider immer noch bestehen. Daraufhin entstand eine
 größere Diskussion, die teils auf osmf-talk und teils auf talk geführt
 wurde. So die alten Themen, wie viel Führung braucht die OSMF, wozu sind
 wir eigentlich da, sollten wir nicht lieber viel mehr Adressen
 importieren, blabla. Jeder hat mal wieder alles gesagt, was er oder sie
 scheisse findet und was man vielleicht schon längst hätte besser machen
 sollen. Dann trat wieder unser grosser alter Vorsitzender Steve Coast
 auf den Plan und kündigte an, für den Vorstand zu kandidieren. In Folge
 hat unser aktueller Vorstandsvorsitzender, Simon Poole, seinen
 sofortigen Rücktritt erklärt.

 Das heisst also, bei der anstehenden Wahl gibt es nun drei Posten zu
 besetzen.

 Es steht auch die Diskussion im Raum, ob man nicht den kompletten
 Vorstand neuwählen sollte oder sonst irgendwelche radikalen Massnahmen
 ergreifen, aber das wird vermutlich nicht so kurzfristig passieren,
 eher, wenn überhaupt, dann über eine spezielle Vollversammlung oder so.

 Die wesentlichen Beiträge sind wohl alle auf
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-October/thread.html,
 bis auf einige, die nur auf der talk-Liste erschienen sind (zum
 Schreiben auf osmf-talk muss man OSMF-Mitglied sein).

 Bye
 Frederik




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[Talk-de] Wochennotiz Nr. 221 14.10.–20.10.2014

2014-10-23 Per discussione wn reader

Hallo,

die Wochennotiz Nr. 222 mit allen wichtigen Neuigkeiten aus der 
OpenStreetMap Welt ist da:


http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2014/10/wochennotiz-nr-222/

Viel Spaß beim Lesen!

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Re: [Talk-it] Confronto DUG di OSM con ISTAT

2014-10-23 Per discussione Daniele Forsi
Il 22 ottobre 2014 20:01, girarsi_liste ha scritto:

 Senz'altro è comodo, ma qualche riga di documentazione anche sarebbe
 comodo, sennò non si capisce a cosa riferisce l'erroe.

sì, serve più documentazione

più che errori, sono solo nomi che iniziano con parole che l'ISTAT non conosce:
per Guido Polo manca Via o Strada privata o quel che è,
per Rue Tabossi immagino che Comune e ISTAT debbano trovarsi
d'accordo sul fatto che Rue sia una denominazione accettabile o meno
e modificare da una parte o dall'altra, per ora noi possiamo solo
controllare cosa dice il cartello e se corrisponde a eventuali dati
aperti pubblicati e se serve usare anche tag come loc_name, old_name,
alt_name

 Se cerco di aprire level0 una via me la rimanda nel Nord-Africa

sì, non funziona, non ho idea a cosa serva quella mappa :-)

grazie del feedback
-- 
Daniele Forsi

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