from:"Mike Dupont"

These are used as an extra turning lane for cars, so going around
corners can be dangerous for cyclists or joggers or walkers who all
share them.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:03 AM, Jack Burke <burke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wait, question:
>
> Are these shoulder lanes under discussion *only* for bicycles, or for motor
> vehicles as well?
>
> --jack
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Elliott Plack <elliott.pl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I have not seen the Shoulder or Lanes tags in wide use yet. I use the
>> cycleway tags on the highway line way to denote bike lanes that are part of
>> the road surface, as it seems your case is. (cycleway:right=lane). Though in
>> this case it is arguable if the shoulder is a lane. What is certain is that
>> most cyclists treat shoulders as such.
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
>>
>> I'm interested in routing and the Open Source Routing Map project. Cycle
>> and ped routing is especially interesting to me as an athlete, and so I
>> looked on the ORSM backend for clues on how they're handling shared lanes
>> and such. Looks like one of these tagging combos will work:
>> https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/8f8bd05f83fa2ccc542c2c44761f548a1e8b7579/features/bicycle/cycleway.feature
>>
>> Elliott
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:15 PM Mike Dupont
>> <jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi there,
>>> This road cr 546 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/566939) and
>>> many others here in the area has extra wide  wide shoulders that
>>> people use for walking or biking. How do you want to tag them as such
>>> so that we can also use that for routing?
>>>
>>> Here is a table of the segments with lane information
>>>
>>> http://lawrencetwp.com/documents/planning/Route546BikewayBicycleCompatibilityMatrix.pdf
>>>
>>> I see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder and
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes what are your thoughts on a
>>> detailed tagging for this information.
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> mike
>>>
>>> --
>>> James Michael DuPont
>>> Kansas Linux Fest http://kansaslinuxfest.us
>>> Free/Libre Open Source and Open Knowledge Association of Kansas
>>> http://openkansas.us
>>> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org
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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> A hard shoulder is not a bike lane and should not be tagged as such.


If you look at the supporting document some sections are declared as
bikable by the city planning. there are share the road signs in some
areas. I am thinking about how to declare there, I do see people
biking or walking on some.

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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> cycleway=lane

I think these are just shoulders used for biking not bike lanes. I
have not seen any bike lanes so far.


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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

Take a look at this map of the area
http://www.dvrpc.org/asp/bikemercer/

It would not be used as a source, but it gives you an idea of what
people call bike-able around here.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 7:29 AM, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:
> Elliott Plack wrote:
>> I am now leaning towards the shoulder tag, and perhaps
>> recommending that the routing tools consider that.
>
> I'd be genuinely delighted to add shoulder support to cycle.travel when
> there's more than a trace number of shoulder tags present in the OSM
> database - missing shoulder information is the second biggest bike routing
> issue in the US IMO (after bogus TIGER highway=residential, of course). But
> as Paul says, please don't misuse cycleway tags for this.
>
> cheers
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Extra-wide-shoulders-travel-lanes-in-NJ-tp5856823p5856885.html
> Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

2015-10-12 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Hi there,
This road cr 546 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/566939) and
many others here in the area has extra wide  wide shoulders that
people use for walking or biking. How do you want to tag them as such
so that we can also use that for routing?

Here is a table of the segments with lane information
http://lawrencetwp.com/documents/planning/Route546BikewayBicycleCompatibilityMatrix.pdf

I see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes what are your thoughts on a
detailed tagging for this information.


thanks
mike

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Re: [Talk-us] perceptions of OHM and other similar projects

2015-04-05 Per discussione Mike Dupont

There would be only one database. the layer would just be a filter that
would not display the railways.
if a railway is glued to a node which is moved in another layer, we would
have to duplicate it, so no data can be accidentally changed if not visible.

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:

 Mike  Dupont writes:
   On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:
  
If the two were layers in the same database, or if they have been
tagged using railway=dismantled and railway=abandoned, then it's no
problem to look at them, render them, edit them, analyze them
   
  
   I still dont understand why we dont support multiple layers. It would
 seem
   to be the most logical thing to do and the api could support that so
 simple
   clients could download a different layers each time.

 The problem is keeping them in synch. If you have a node that
 represents the same thing (e.g. the end of a bridge way), and it's in
 two layers, what happens when somebody downloads layer 1, and moves
 the node? How does it get updated in layer 2? Smarter people than me
 have thought about it and seen worse problems.

 --
 --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
 Crynwr supports open source software
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Re: [Talk-us] perceptions of OHM and other similar projects

2015-04-04 Per discussione Mike Dupont

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:

 If the two were layers in the same database, or if they have been
 tagged using railway=dismantled and railway=abandoned, then it's no
 problem to look at them, render them, edit them, analyze them


I still dont understand why we dont support multiple layers. It would seem
to be the most logical thing to do and the api could support that so simple
clients could download a different layers each time.


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Re: [Talk-us] Mappy Hour - Next Monday

2015-04-01 Per discussione Mike Dupont

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 10:48 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:

 OpenHistoricalMap. Read about it here:
 http://www.openhistoricalmap.org/about but better still, come join the
 Mappy Hour next week.


That is great! nice to hear about that project. Good job!


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Re: [Talk-us] Moving historic railroad ways from OSM to OpenHistoricalMap

2015-04-01 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Here in Kansas we have very many abandoned railways (and many pickup trucks
to replace them) that are turned into trails or paved over and still
visible. I would say if there is any sign of them left to keep the
information in some way.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 1:12 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:

 On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
 wrote:
  On 03/31/2015 08:04 AM, Natfoot wrote:
  There is so many situations where to his naked eye on the ground he may
  not be able to see it.  To a person like myself I can still find the
  signs on the earth of where the railroad once was.
 
  Then map the signs that *are*, but not the railroad which - as you
  correctly say - once *was*.
  Bye
  Frederik

 For background, in the USA there is an intermediate step to
 abandonment.  A corridor can be railbanked,
 meaning the easements don't expire.  It's not an active railway, but
 it can be returned to rail service
 via an administrative procedure.  And in fact, that's happened.
 Usually however these become trails,
 a process that can take decades.

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Re: [Talk-us] OSM topics at Kansas Linux Fest

2014-11-28 Per discussione Mike Dupont

The location is at the Lawrence public library in the new confrence
room, http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/51126839

On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:
 I'm tentatively scheduled to work that day...could you narrow down the
 location in Kansas?


 On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Mike Dupont
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Howdy,
 I am working on an free/libre open source software/open knowledge
 festival in Kansas on March 21-22 2015,
 kansaslinuxfest.us and would like to invite OSM people to talk and attend!
 mike

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[Talk-us] OSM topics at Kansas Linux Fest

2014-11-27 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Howdy,
I am working on an free/libre open source software/open knowledge
festival in Kansas on March 21-22 2015,
kansaslinuxfest.us and would like to invite OSM people to talk and attend!
mike

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource

2014-04-19 Per discussione Mike Dupont

On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:

 Well no, Mike, I don't think so.  What rights a publisher grants to
 Wikipedia has nothing to do with what rights a publisher grants to
 OpenStreetMap.  Wikipedia has no ownership interest in OpenStreetMap,
 nor vice-versa.


If wikipedia is granted rights, it is not exclusive, if the data is under a
public domain or creative commons then osm can use it. There is no data on
wikipedia except fair use pictures that cannot be used in osm.

mike


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource

2014-04-19 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Oh i almost forgot. Well look, they could use the otrs for marking it as
public domain. I am sure you can modify the otrs text to include a special
text for osm as well.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Email_templates

so just add in the osm text as well as the creative commons. make it multi
licensed.

you might want to send them things about open public data initiatives :
http://sunlightfoundation.com/opendataguidelines/
http://project-open-data.github.io/
http://wiki.civiccommons.org/Open_Data_Policy

  mike


On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.dewrote:

 If the data is creative commons we can't use it. We can't neither fulfill
 the attribution nor is it compatible with the contributor terms which
 allows changing the license.

 Stephan

 On April 19, 2014 5:19:54 PM CEST, Mike Dupont 
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:


 On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:

 Well no, Mike, I don't think so.  What rights a publisher grants to
 Wikipedia has nothing to do with what rights a publisher grants to
 OpenStreetMap.  Wikipedia has no ownership interest in OpenStreetMap,
 nor vice-versa.


 If wikipedia is granted rights, it is not exclusive, if the data is under
 a public domain or creative commons then osm can use it. There is no data
 on wikipedia except fair use pictures that cannot be used in osm.

 mike




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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource

2014-04-18 Per discussione Mike Dupont

the wikipedia has a nice otrs system, I supposed you could use it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OTRS

so let them sign something that allows the data to be used by wikipedia and
that should cover osm as well.


On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Eric Jiang e...@doublemap.com wrote:

 Greetings,
 I am interested in better data for Indiana, USA, and would like to
 have someone else double-check that there are no legal/policy issues
 with using GIS data from IndianaMap[1] in OSM. I talked to one of
 their employees over the phone, and he said that the data is
 completely public, with no usage or attribution requirements or
 restrictions, and specifically confirmed that using it in OSM is OK.
 Terms on the metadata for what I'm interested in seem to say the
 same[2].

 Basically, I want to get a confirmation from more experienced OSM
 contributors before I explore the feasibility of importing any of this
 data. There might be general issues that I'm not aware of yet.

 [1] http://www.indianamap.org/resources.php
 [2]
 http://maps.indiana.edu/metadata/Reference/Land_Parcels_County_IDHS.html

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[Talk-us] Event Invite: Intro to Openstreetmap March 29 Lawrence Creates On March 29 at 18:00-21:00

2014-03-12 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Intro to Openstreetmap March 29 Lawrence Creates On March 29 at 18:00-21:00
at Lawrence Creates we will be organizing a intro to openstreetmap.org

Location https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2480338498 512 E 9th St. (9th
and NJ), Lawrence, KS 66044-66044 Lawrence United States of America

All are welcome.
https://sites.google.com/site/flosokaks/events/introtoopenstreetmapmarch29lawrencecreates
Any experienced OSM editors to help mentor would be great to have.

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Re: [Talk-transit] maintenance is very time consuming on public transport routes

2013-12-02 Per discussione Mike Dupont

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote:
 This gives at least the chance that mappers, software developers and data 
 users all have a
 chance to adopt the data model.
Here are some examples :

In albania, there are minivans (Furgon) that will wait at certain
spots and go when enought people are in or enough money is given.
there are also popular routes and starting spots :
http://www.matinic.us/albania/furgon.php

In the dom rep you have guaguas, also overfilled buses :
http://wikitravel.org/en/Dominican_Republic#Guaguas_.28local_buses.29

In kosovo they have large private buses are that run between cities,
and official city buses
see http://prishtinabuses.info/en

In Topeka Kansas, there are the city  buses which run on normal
schedules, I have added a few to osm.
then there is the roadrunner http://www.kciroadrunner.com/, it has
standard stops, but will pickup when you pay more,  it runs only when
ordered. So the cheapest pickup for example is at the ramada inn for
example, and that would be worthy to put on the map.






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Re: [Talk-us] US Bicycle Route mapping projects

2013-10-21 Per discussione Mike Dupont

KANSAS

Model: Not Determined

Phase I: Planning

There is interest in the U.S. Bicycle Route System with momentum
behind USBR 66 and 76. To find out more about bicycle and pedestrian
transportation in Kansas, and to view our Kansas Bicycle Guide, please
visit the DOT Bike/Pedestrian program.

For more information contact Becky Pepper at rpepper(at)ksdot(dot)org.
http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/us-bicycle-route-system/national-corridor-plan/index.cfm#ks

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:39 PM, KerryIrons irons54vor...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Paul,

 No, KS has not even engaged in defining a route for USBR 66 (though it would
 be a very short segment across the SE corner of the state).  I'm collecting
 all the responses and will get everyone up to speed once the list of mappers
 is stable.  I'll keep you posted.


 Kerry

 -Original Message-
 From: Paul Johnson [mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org]
 Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 10:28 AM
 To: KerryIrons
 Cc: OSM US Talk; steve...@softworkers.com
 Subject: Re: [Talk-us] US Bicycle Route mapping projects

 I believe I recall seeing that Kansas already has erected USBR 66 signs.
  I'm down to map any segment west of Joplin (I'm familiar with US 66 up to
 that point).

 On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 7:40 PM, KerryIrons irons54vor...@sbcglobal.net
 wrote:
 OSM mappers:

 As you may know from past discussions there is a developing US Bicycle Route
 system and there are a number of projects underway at the state level to
 develop and designate USBRs.  Those project teams are at various stages of
 development but may be interested in partnering with one or more OSM mappers
 to get their proposed or approved routes into the OSM data base.

 Steve All and I found similar work to be a fruitful collaboration together,
 and I look forward to doing that again multiplied many times at the
 statewide level.  Steve has developed a high level of expertise on USBR
 mapping and has wiki pages to explain the process AND we have good examples
 (of well-tagged routes) at the national and state levels.  He is happy to be
 a reference available to answer syntax/tagging/technical questions about OSM
 itself that are specific to bicycle route mapping.

 Here is the list of current or incipient USBR projects where involvement
 from OSM mappers could be helpful to the project effort.

 Alabama, USBR 90 and perhaps USBR 23
 Arkansas, USBR 80 and USBR 51
 California, USBR 66
 Indiana, USBR 35, USBR 50
 Louisiana, USBR 90
 Maryland, USBR 50
 Mississippi, USBR 90, USBR 25/35 (Natchez Trace)
 Nevada, USBR 50
 New Mexico, USBR 66
 Ohio, USBR 50
 Oklahoma, USBR 66
 Tennessee, USBR 23
 Virginia, USBR 11
 Washington, USBR 10
 Wisconsin, USBR 30
 Wyoming, USBR 76

 If you are interested in helping one or more of these project teams, please
 let me know and I will introduce you to the appropriate state level USBR
 folks.


 Kerry Irons
 Adventure Cycling Association


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[Talk-us] Mass deletion in shawnee county, ks

2013-05-28 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Hi all, I would like some help here. I have spent the past 6 months
working on the shawnee county and now douglass county.. Now paul
norman has decided to delete massive amounts of data and refuses to
even discuss or work with me on this.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16288086
Is anyone interested in helping out on this? I feel horrible about
this situation and would like to resolve it. Yes I did not follow all
procedures on this, but have not caused any problems, I have now a bot
to clean up any badly named streets. Also I have dont months of manual
cleanup. this effort is being undermined. I ask only that we find a
good solution to the issue without just random deletion.
thanks
mike


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova

2013-03-04 Per discussione Mike Dupont

I cannot help you bekim, It seems that the licensing is a lost cause.
I for one have stopped wasting time on it.
mike

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello Michael,

 Just to let you know that I never heard back from anyone on the issue of the
 road data for Kosovo.
 I am not sure how things work, but I was very unhappy that all that data was
 removed after hundreds of work hours made by many volunteers in Kosova to
 update the original dataset which was coming from a dated source. Now I see
 the maps has a lost of new roads but the old dataset is not incorporated, so
 not sure if anything can be done at all if there's a possibility to combine
 something.

 Any advise, recommendation would be welcome.

 Best,
 Bekim


 On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote:

 Hi Bekim,

 If nobody else gives you feedback I will do so next week. I am away at the
 moment.

 Regards,
 Michael Collinson



 On 20 Sep 2012, at 19:11, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks Mike,

 Hopefully someone will send some feedback.

 Best,
 Bekim


 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Mike Dupont
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 I dont understand that myself, it seems a bit fuzzy to me but this is
 the right mailing list and I hope you will get some feedback,
 thanks
 mike

 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Ok but I don't know how to go about and do that! That's my problem.
  Where is the starting point?
 
  I am ready to approve, sign, confirm anything required!
 
  Best,
  Bekim
 
 
 
  On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Mike Dupont
  jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
 
  Bekim,
  I have been working on understanding the new license even today.
  it is cc-by-sa + database rights (odbl) + the right for osm to change
  the licence at will in the future.
 
  basically you need to grant the osm the rights to use the data,
  Michael can give you more info about this,
 
  thanks,
 
  mike
 
  On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Bekim Kajtazi
  bekim.kajt...@gmail.com
  wrote:
   Gent's,
  
   Some days ago  I noticed that all those detailed roads that were on
   OSM
   in
   Kosova were removed.
   Does anyone have any information, like when? why? were removed.
  
   I am about to contact OSM and any assistance and additional
   information
   is
   welcome!
  
   Best,
   Bekim
  
  
   --
   about.me/bekim
  
   --
   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
   Groups
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  Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
  Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
  http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
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  --
  about.me/bekim
 



 --
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 Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
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Re: [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse

2012-12-27 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Well I have been looking into the law today, and I talked to the gis expert
at the county.
First of all we are not importing the peoples names, so anyone doing a mass
mailing would be be just getting the address.
The data that we imported is being bought by many companies he said. And
the address information is being also available from the post as well.
I am going to talk to more people in the county or the state, but my first
contact said there should be no problem. All we are importing is the fact
that there is a house there with that number and the zipcode and the type
of landuse.


On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
 wrote:

 Sorry, I did not finish that. I have already written to legal about it.
 Trulia and Zillow are using this data in full. I have stripped out all
 personal and contact information so I think that it should not fall under
 the no selling of contact info clause.
 The data is basically PD/ disclaimed
 http://www.snco.us/Ap/B_prop/Disclaimer.shtm

 the relevant law is :

 Kansas Open Records Act Statement

 By accessing this site, you are required to make the following
 certification pursuant to K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2): the requester does not
 intend to, and will not: (A) Use any list of names or addresses contained
 in or derived from the records or information for the purpose of selling or
 offering for sale any property or service to any person listed or to any
 person who resides at any address listed; or (B) sell, give or otherwise
 make available to any person any list of names or addresses contained in or
 derived from the records or information for the purpose of allowing that
 person to sell or offer for sale any property or service to any person
 listed or to any person who resides at any address listed.

 maybe you could say that you can use osm to create an address db, but i
 think we should look into it
 mike


 On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Mike Dupont 
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 2.   **What is the license that this data is under? I did not see a
 copyright statement.

 This is basically PD data from the government. under the open data act
 the only restriction is that the
 http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_45/Article_2/#45-216




 --
 James Michael DuPont
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 Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
 http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
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 Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
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-- 
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Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
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Re: [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse

2012-12-27 Per discussione Mike Dupont

This is about shawnee county, not riley. I am working on getting a
written confirmation, until then I will not import any more data, just
continue to clean up what I have imported.
mike

On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote:
 While we didn't discuss it in terms of this specific law, this does
 match my conversation with the Riley county GIS department. As long as
 names aren't used, they do not have any problems with their
 information being used in OSM.

 Toby


 On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Mike  Dupont
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Well I have been looking into the law today, and I talked to the gis expert
 at the county.
 First of all we are not importing the peoples names, so anyone doing a mass
 mailing would be be just getting the address.
 The data that we imported is being bought by many companies he said. And the
 address information is being also available from the post as well.
 I am going to talk to more people in the county or the state, but my first
 contact said there should be no problem. All we are importing is the fact
 that there is a house there with that number and the zipcode and the type of
 landuse.


 On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Mike Dupont
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Sorry, I did not finish that. I have already written to legal about it.
 Trulia and Zillow are using this data in full. I have stripped out all
 personal and contact information so I think that it should not fall under
 the no selling of contact info clause.
 The data is basically PD/ disclaimed
 http://www.snco.us/Ap/B_prop/Disclaimer.shtm

 the relevant law is :

 Kansas Open Records Act Statement

 By accessing this site, you are required to make the following
 certification pursuant to K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2): the requester does not
 intend to, and will not: (A) Use any list of names or addresses contained in
 or derived from the records or information for the purpose of selling or
 offering for sale any property or service to any person listed or to any
 person who resides at any address listed; or (B) sell, give or otherwise
 make available to any person any list of names or addresses contained in or
 derived from the records or information for the purpose of allowing that
 person to sell or offer for sale any property or service to any person
 listed or to any person who resides at any address listed.

 maybe you could say that you can use osm to create an address db, but i
 think we should look into it
 mike


 On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Mike Dupont
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 2.   What is the license that this data is under? I did not see a
 copyright statement.

 This is basically PD data from the government. under the open data act
 the only restriction is that the
 http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_45/Article_2/#45-216




 --
 James Michael DuPont
 Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
 Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
 http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
 Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
 Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
 Free Software Foundation Europe Fellow http://fsfe.org/support/?h4ck3rm1k3




 --
 James Michael DuPont
 Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
 Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
 Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
 Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] shawnee county landuse

2012-12-21 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Yes, I am going to be working on this.
We can remove the US and KS easily.
Not all is perfect, Some of the nodes dont have a house number.

That farm node you mentioned is an empty farmyard.
http://www.snco.us/Ap/R_prop/Listing.asp?PRCL_ID=0282701001001010 It does
not have a house number, but it does exist as a property. I will be either
removing them or removing the building nodes. What do you think?

Now Flu Con Inc is listed at that address. I added it for now, will be
checking it on monday by calling them.

This data does need fixing up, it is not perfect, but I am working on it.

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote:

Just saw some of this going in and decided to take a look.
Specifically this node:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2078174875

- I think there is pretty good consensus that we don't need addr:state
and addr:country tags
- The addr:street tag has odd capitalization
- The building=* tag typically doesn't belong on nodes
- It has both building and landuse tags. Seems odd.
- There doesn't appear to be a building there on Bing. Is it new?
- Not sure about all the lbcs: tags. Sometimes it is useful to pull in
external information but it is also clutter in OSM
- The tags are all identical to this node that is 60 meters north:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2078081231

Seems like this could use some more fixing up before it hits the OSM
database.

Toby

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Mike Dupont
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
I have added the info to the wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kansas/Shawnee_County/Import

also the scripts are updated. I am been manually replacing the plot info
with just the building, so the only info being imported are the house
numbers and zip codes and the lbcs tags. Also for the new script, I
create a
single point with the average location of the points making up the plot
and
then manually place that on top of the major building manually. this
checks
the data and also basically removes all data being copied, everything is
only just the basic facts.

mike

On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Mike Dupont
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:09 AM, Martin Koppenhöfer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:

Am 15/dic/2012 um 22:39 schrieb Mike Dupont
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com:

3. What tagging are you proposing?

addr:* and landuse
the only additional tag are the four detailed landuse tags
eg
lbcs:activity:code{1100=1}
lbcs:activity:name{Household activities=1}
lbcs:function:code{1170=1}
lbcs:function:name{Garden apartment complex (1=1}

These codes are details on how the lot is zoned. otherwise I am using
this information for fixing the street names and zip codes.

Are the landuses you plan to tag actual landuses or permitted/planned
landuses?

These are actual landuses, the ones that describe the business.
when you register a business here in kansas, you have to provide this
information.
https://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s1

I will also be looking into how that data can be extracted and compared
some day. This is more than zoning infomation.
If you look at this for example :
http://www.snco.us/Ap/C_prop/Listing.asp?PRCL_ID=0973604030001000

2151-Grocery store / supermarket
2110-Goods-oriented shopping
that is very accurate and could be used for direct tag information.

there is a building layer on the snco gis site, but I have not figured
out
how to extract it, it seems to be hidden. So I am tracing them from
bing.
http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/7
http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/8

4. The last few times someone has proposed importing property
lot
data the consensus has been that that type of data shouldn’t be
imported
into OSM. Why is this different?

I am importing the plots for zipcode, house number and address data. It
is being used to tag the buildings, it can be deleted when it has been
totally processed.

IMHO addresses belong (often) to plots, so in these cases there is no
point in transferring the address information to a building. Don't
remember
consensus to not import property limits. I do remember though that
there
were concerns about the sheer amount of data increase if we imported
this
for the whole world.

Cheers,
Martin

http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=2033+Southwest+Wanamaker+Rd%2C+Topeka%2C+Kansasviewbox=-217.97%2C80.28%2C217.97%2C

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] shawnee county landuse

2012-12-21 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Well we can remove the names of the lbcs codes, I left them for now because
it is very useful for editing. I am using them to search while editing etc.

Well the amount of data we are extracting is very very limited, I see this
as basic fair use and factual information. The county gis officer knows
what I am doing and did not say anything. The data should be easy to delete
if needed.

Right now I am still working out the tagging of the various nodes, and when
it all done we will remove the lbcs data when it is no longer needed.
This is all work in progress, but already the osm database is better than
google and other databases, I have been removing misplaced tags and nodes.

Also on the issue of violation of the kansas law, trulia and zillow and
many others have real copies of this data in a much more commercial manner
and I dont see that they are getting in trouble. I dont think it will be a
big issue.

mike


On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 You are proposing importing both the code **and** the description of the
 code. Why both? 

 ** **

 For that matter, why either at all? A user isn’t going to know what to do
 with it when editing the other tags.

 ** **

 I can’t see a link to the license on the wiki. Could you please provide
 one. A lack of a license does not indicate public domain. Some counties
 consider their geodata to be PD, some don’t. It’s likely that Shawanee
 does, but there’s no confirmation of that that I see.

 ** **

 The K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)(B) declaration is a bit odd. It doesn’t seem to
 match up exactly with K.S.A. 45-230 which is titled “unlawful use of names
 derived from public records.”

 ** **

 Remember, ODbL like any open license (e.g. CC BY, CC0, CC BY-SA, etc)
 allows people to resell the data. Someone could take the OSM address data
 and do a mass mailing based on it.

 ** **

 I guess **you** might get into trouble based on it but the person doing
 so would probably be okay since they didn’t make the K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)
 certification.

 ** **

 *From:* Mike Dupont [mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2012 9:51 AM
 *To:* Martin Koppenhöfer
 *Cc:* Paul Norman; imports; talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 *Subject:* Re: [Imports] [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse

 ** **

 I have added the info to the wiki

 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kansas/Shawnee_County/Import

 ** **

 also the scripts are updated. I am been manually replacing the  plot info
 with just the building, so the only info being imported are the house
 numbers and zip codes and the lbcs tags. Also for the new script, I create
 a single point with the average location of the points making up the plot
 and then manually place that on top of the major building manually. this
 checks the data and also basically removes all data being copied,
 everything is only just the basic facts. 

 ** **

 mike

 ** **

 On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Mike Dupont 
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 ** **

 ** **

 On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:09 AM, Martin Koppenhöfer 
 dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:



 Am 15/dic/2012 um 22:39 schrieb Mike  Dupont 
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com:

 3.   What tagging are you proposing?

 addr:* and landuse
 the only additional tag are the four detailed landuse tags
 eg
 lbcs:activity:code{1100=1}
 lbcs:activity:name{Household activities=1}
 lbcs:function:code{1170=1}
 lbcs:function:name{Garden apartment complex (1=1}

 These codes are details on how the lot is zoned. otherwise I am using this
 information for fixing the street names and zip codes. 

 Are the landuses you plan to tag actual landuses or permitted/planned
 landuses?


 These are actual landuses, the ones that describe the business.
 when you register a business here in kansas, you have to provide this
 information.
 https://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s1

 I will also be looking into how that data can be extracted and compared
 some day. This is more than zoning infomation.
 If you look at this for example :
 http://www.snco.us/Ap/C_prop/Listing.asp?PRCL_ID=0973604030001000

 2151-Grocery store / supermarket
 2110-Goods-oriented shopping

 that is very accurate and could be used for direct tag information.

 there is a building layer on the snco gis site, but I have not figured out
 how to extract it, it seems to be hidden. So I am tracing them from bing.
 http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/7
 http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/8

 4.   The last few times someone has proposed importing property lot
 data the consensus has been that that type of data shouldn’t be imported
 into OSM. Why is this different?

 I am importing the plots for zipcode, house number and address data. It is
 being used to tag the buildings, it can be deleted when it has been totally
 processed

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] shawnee county landuse

2012-12-21 Per discussione Mike Dupont

I dont think that zipcodes and housenumbers count as copyrightable in usa.
I am not importing the entire database, and I am not copying the shapes
there. Also I am matching them up with bing, I really have doubts about the
data being protected in any meaningful way. I will do more research with
the county and get an opinion from them in writing on monday.

mike


On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 To be clear, you do **not** have a license for this data but are relying
 on fair use and your opinion of what is copyrighted?

 ** **

 Also, are you relying on the fact that others haven’t gotten into trouble
 as support for this import being legally okay?

 ** **

 *From:* Mike Dupont [mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2012 6:51 PM
 *To:* Paul Norman
 *Cc:* imports; talk-us@openstreetmap.org

 *Subject:* Re: [Imports] [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse

 ** **

 Well we can remove the names of the lbcs codes, I left them for now
 because it is very useful for editing. I am using them to search while
 editing etc. 

 ** **

 Well the amount of data we are extracting is very very limited, I see this
 as basic fair use and factual information. The county gis officer knows
 what I am doing and did not say anything. The data should be easy to delete
 if needed.

 ** **

 Right now I am still working out the tagging of the various nodes, and
 when it all done we will remove the lbcs data when it is no longer needed.
 

 This is all work in progress, but already the osm database is better than
 google and other databases, I have been removing misplaced tags and nodes.
 

 ** **

 Also on the issue of violation of the kansas law, trulia and zillow and
 many others have real copies of this data in a much more commercial manner
 and I dont see that they are getting in trouble. I dont think it will be a
 big issue.

 ** **

 mike

 ** **

 On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 You are proposing importing both the code **and** the description of the
 code. Why both? 

  

 For that matter, why either at all? A user isn’t going to know what to do
 with it when editing the other tags.

  

 I can’t see a link to the license on the wiki. Could you please provide
 one. A lack of a license does not indicate public domain. Some counties
 consider their geodata to be PD, some don’t. It’s likely that Shawanee
 does, but there’s no confirmation of that that I see.

  

 The K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)(B) declaration is a bit odd. It doesn’t seem to
 match up exactly with K.S.A. 45-230 which is titled “unlawful use of names
 derived from public records.”

  

 Remember, ODbL like any open license (e.g. CC BY, CC0, CC BY-SA, etc)
 allows people to resell the data. Someone could take the OSM address data
 and do a mass mailing based on it.

  

 I guess **you** might get into trouble based on it but the person doing
 so would probably be okay since they didn’t make the K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)
 certification.

  

 *From:* Mike Dupont [mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2012 9:51 AM
 *To:* Martin Koppenhöfer
 *Cc:* Paul Norman; imports; talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 *Subject:* Re: [Imports] [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse

  

 I have added the info to the wiki

 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kansas/Shawnee_County/Import

  

 also the scripts are updated. I am been manually replacing the  plot info
 with just the building, so the only info being imported are the house
 numbers and zip codes and the lbcs tags. Also for the new script, I create
 a single point with the average location of the points making up the plot
 and then manually place that on top of the major building manually. this
 checks the data and also basically removes all data being copied,
 everything is only just the basic facts. 

  

 mike

  

 On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Mike Dupont 
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

  

  

 On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:09 AM, Martin Koppenhöfer 
 dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:



 Am 15/dic/2012 um 22:39 schrieb Mike  Dupont 
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com:

 3.   What tagging are you proposing?

 addr:* and landuse
 the only additional tag are the four detailed landuse tags
 eg
 lbcs:activity:code{1100=1}
 lbcs:activity:name{Household activities=1}
 lbcs:function:code{1170=1}
 lbcs:function:name{Garden apartment complex (1=1}

 These codes are details on how the lot is zoned. otherwise I am using this
 information for fixing the street names and zip codes. 

 Are the landuses you plan to tag actual landuses or permitted/planned
 landuses?


 These are actual landuses, the ones that describe the business.
 when you register a business here in kansas, you have to provide this
 information.
 https://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] shawnee county landuse

2012-12-16 Per discussione Mike Dupont

On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:09 AM, Martin Koppenhöfer
dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote:

Am 15/dic/2012 um 22:39 schrieb Mike Dupont
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com:

3. **What tagging are you proposing?

These codes are details on how the lot is zoned. otherwise I am using this
information for fixing the street names and zip codes.

Are the landuses you plan to tag actual landuses or permitted/planned
landuses?

These are actual landuses, the ones that describe the business.
when you register a business here in kansas, you have to provide this
information.
https://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s1

2151-Grocery store / supermarket
2110-Goods-oriented shopping
that is very accurate and could be used for direct tag information.

there is a building layer on the snco gis site, but I have not figured out
how to extract it, it seems to be hidden. So I am tracing them from bing.
http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/7
http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/8

**4. **The last few times someone has proposed importing property
lot data the consensus has been that that type of data shouldn’t be
imported into OSM. Why is this different?

I am importing the plots for zipcode, house number and address data. It is
being used to tag the buildings, it can be deleted when it has been totally
processed.

IMHO addresses belong (often) to plots, so in these cases there is no
point in transferring the address information to a building. Don't remember
consensus to not import property limits. I do remember though that there
were concerns about the sheer amount of data increase if we imported this
for the whole world.

Cheers,
Martin

Well these are plots/property limits. And I dont want to import them for
the whole world, just the streets that I am tracing buildings from so
that I can quickly find locations. Also did you notice that
http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/ can now find house numbers accurately
for these streets I imported :
http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=2033+Southwest+Wanamaker+Rd%2C+Topeka%2C+Kansasviewbox=-217.97%2C80.28%2C217.97%2C-70.31

Until the houses are traced and the data transfered like i did here :

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/196582551 I removed the plot and
the lbcs data and left only the house itself.
I forgot the landuse=residential.

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[OSM-legal-talk] osm and K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)

2012-12-15 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Hello,
Would putting the data in osm be in violation of the kansas law  K.S.A.
45-220(c)(2)?

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_45/Article_2/45-230.html

 K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2): the requester does not intend to, and will not: (A)
Use any list of names or addresses contained in or derived from the records
or information for the purpose of selling or offering for sale any property
or service to any person listed or to any person who resides at any address
listed; or (B) sell, give or otherwise make available to any person any
list of names or addresses contained in or derived from the records or
information for the purpose of allowing that person to sell or offer for
sale any property or service to any person listed or to any person who
resides at any address listed.

thanks
mike

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[Talk-us] shawnee county landuse

2012-12-15 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Hi,
Paul Norman pointed out that I forgot to mail people about my work on
topeka. I have recently moved here and have been working on fixing things
up.

I am working on the topekabikelanes.org as a volunteer and have put in all
the bikelanes as proposed routes.

I am using the county gis system http://gis.snco.us/publicgis/ps/ and have
written a ruby script to pull out the house numbers and land useage data.
This data is being check street by street by me personally and I am
repairing bad names and tiger garbage.

About a separate account, I dont know how I am going to easily manage that,
anyone have an idea to do that in josm? In any case i am not mass
importing, but doing street by street what I would be doing manually.

please advise if there is anything else you need to know.

code is here :
https://github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/shawnee-county-osm-landuse

thanks,
mike

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[Talk-us] Fwd: osm and K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)

2012-12-15 Per discussione Mike Dupont

the only issue that we might have with the data imported is this law,
but trulia and zillow and all those property databases also have all this
data as well.

Also I found this, a nice set of contours and orthophotos
http://www.topeka.org/maps/gis_map.htm

mike

-- Forwarded message --
From: Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
Date: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 2:02 PM
Subject: osm and K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)
To: Licensing and other legal discussions. legal-t...@openstreetmap.org


Hello,
Would putting the data in osm be in violation of the kansas law  K.S.A.
45-220(c)(2)?

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_45/Article_2/45-230.html

 K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2): the requester does not intend to, and will not: (A)
Use any list of names or addresses contained in or derived from the records
or information for the purpose of selling or offering for sale any property
or service to any person listed or to any person who resides at any address
listed; or (B) sell, give or otherwise make available to any person any
list of names or addresses contained in or derived from the records or
information for the purpose of allowing that person to sell or offer for
sale any property or service to any person listed or to any person who
resides at any address listed.

thanks
mike

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[OSM-legal-talk] apple petition

2012-10-22 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Hi all,
We need only 6 more signatures for the apple petition :
http://www.change.org/petitions/apple-inc-uphold-the-terms-of-cc-by-sa-2-0-license

please sign and share! If you ask yourself what use it is, the point
is that we can try and put public pressure onto apple.
mike

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Re: [Talk-de] Neues zum Stand der Lizenzverletzungen durch Großkonzerne?

2012-10-08 Per discussione Mike Dupont

2012/10/7 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de

  damit würden die ganzen Forderungen an Apple zur korrekten Attributierung
 in's Leere laufen...


nicht ganz, weil niemand kann Deine Rechte an deine Arbeit wegnehmen, aber
es wuerde schwerer werden.


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[OSM-legal-talk] Please sign my petition to ask apple for disclosure

2012-10-06 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Hi there,
I would like to ask you all to consider to sign my petition for apple to
disclose their usage of OSM :
http://www.change.org/petitions/apple-inc-uphold-the-terms-of-cc-by-sa-2-0-license

thanks,
mike

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Re: [Talk-de] Neues zum Stand der Lizenzverletzungen durch Großkonzerne?

2012-10-05 Per discussione Mike Dupont

2012/10/4 Simon Poole si...@poole.ch

 Wenn es sich um ODbL lizenzierte Daten handeln würde (was mit grosser
 Sicherheit nicht der Fall ist),


Ich bin der Hoffnung das die Daten aus der EU (also meine, die ich in .de
erstellt habe) unter der european datenbank directive bereits besonders
geschuetz sind,


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Re: [Talk-de] Neues zum Stand der Lizenzverletzungen durch Großkonzerne?

2012-10-05 Per discussione Mike Dupont

2012/10/5 Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com


 2012/10/4 Simon Poole si...@poole.ch

 Wenn es sich um ODbL lizenzierte Daten handeln würde (was mit grosser
 Sicherheit nicht der Fall ist),


 Ich bin der Hoffnung das die Daten aus der EU (also meine, die ich in .de
 erstellt habe) unter der european datenbank directive bereits besonders
 geschuetz sind,


Hier gibt es den ersten Feeback :
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-de/2012-October/001056.html
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Re: [Talk-de] Neues zum Stand der Lizenzverletzungen durch Großkonzerne?

2012-10-04 Per discussione Mike Dupont

2012/10/4 ThomasB toba0...@yahoo.de


 Alles noch beim Alten. Es wird von der OSMF und der LWG geduldet, dass
 Apple
 unsere Lizenz seit ca einem halben Jahr verletzt

bitte meine neue Petition gegen Apple unterschreiben :
http://www.change.org/petitions/apple-inc-uphold-the-terms-of-cc-by-sa-2-0-license


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Re: [Talk-de] Neues zum Stand der Lizenzverletzungen durch Großkonzerne?

2012-10-02 Per discussione Mike Dupont

2012/10/2 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
 (Sofern die Experten
 überhaupt eine Chance sehen, cc-by-sa auf Daten durchzusetzen.)
Siehe thread dazu hier
lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-community/2012-September/007940.html


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:06 PM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote:
 I'm not sure I understand what you mean by convince people to add the odbl
 clause to people providing data.

I mean I asked people to give us the data under cc-by-sa, and now i
would have to go back and ask for the odbl database rights, that might
be something I could do, at least I can understand it.

that is different than to ask for the CT which is my eyes basically a
copyright assignment to the osmf, I cannot understand that or explain
it.

mike


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Mike  Dupont
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
 that is different than to ask for the CT which is my eyes basically a
 copyright assignment to the osmf, I cannot understand that or explain

And to add in one more point, I dont want to have to go back again and
again to donors asking for more and more rights, we need to nail this
down once and for all.


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote:
 This is a good reason to have contributor terms.

the contributor terms introduce more problems, like the fact that it
prevents anyone from importing any derived works.
lets say i download the new cc-by-sa+odbl database make changes and
publish them, then you want to import them back, you cannot because I
did not agree to the terms.

so the sharealike just fails when you introduce cts with a copyright
assignment, in my opinion, or am I missing something?

Basically the CTs prevent any other compatible OSM servers to share
data with osm, it creates an island of data with no way to share with
anyone except via usage.

mike


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote:
 () The CTs where written carefully to say, If you contribute Contents, You
 are indicating that, as far as You know, You have the right to authorize
 OSMF to use and distribute those Contents under our current licence terms.
 current license terms, so ODbL 1.0.

so that means that you can reimport the derived works back under odbl
from a osm deriviate during the time that it has the same license?

and it also means that if I publish data under the cc-by-sa+odbl that
it can be used in osm?

if so, that would be at least a good basic working agreement with any
other projects.

mike

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova

Bekim,
I have been working on understanding the new license even today.
it is cc-by-sa + database rights (odbl) + the right for osm to change
the licence at will in the future.

basically you need to grant the osm the rights to use the data,
Michael can give you more info about this,

thanks,

mike

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Gent's,

 Some days ago  I noticed that all those detailed roads that were on OSM in
 Kosova were removed.
 Does anyone have any information, like when? why? were removed.

 I am about to contact OSM and any assistance and additional information is
 welcome!

 Best,
 Bekim


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova

I dont understand that myself, it seems a bit fuzzy to me but this is
the right mailing list and I hope you will get some feedback,
thanks
mike

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Ok but I don't know how to go about and do that! That's my problem.
 Where is the starting point?

 I am ready to approve, sign, confirm anything required!

 Best,
 Bekim



 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Mike Dupont
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Bekim,
 I have been working on understanding the new license even today.
 it is cc-by-sa + database rights (odbl) + the right for osm to change
 the licence at will in the future.

 basically you need to grant the osm the rights to use the data,
 Michael can give you more info about this,

 thanks,

 mike

 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Gent's,
 
  Some days ago  I noticed that all those detailed roads that were on OSM
  in
  Kosova were removed.
  Does anyone have any information, like when? why? were removed.
 
  I am about to contact OSM and any assistance and additional information
  is
  welcome!
 
  Best,
  Bekim
 
 
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data

that sounds more like my conclusion, it is the end of the road for
share alike and sharing for osm.
basically it is turning into a dead end road.
well guys please help bekim, i have sent him to you,
mike

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:

 Mike, I think we should come to a clearer recommendation, specifically with 
 regards to share-alike data.

 The highly infectuous character of share alike licenses severely restricts 
 OSM's leeway of adjusting its license and we shouldn't paint ourselves into a 
 corner this way.

 Here are the simple rules I do recommend currently when talking to people and 
 that I would love OSM to adopt officially.

 Contribute only data that is:

 - Yours
 - Is public domain or merely requires attribution
 - You have an explicit permission from owner for contribution to OSM for

 BTW, I actually think there are only very few potential datasets that are in 
 question here. I have doubts whether ODbL is actually compatible given OSMF's 
 option to change the license to another open license in the future, and 
 CC-BY-SA is clearly not compatible as it does not distinguish between derived 
 and produced works.

 On Sep 20, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote:

 On 20/09/2012 07:32, Mike Dupont wrote:
 Hi there,

 I have a question about imports and the ODBl,

 I see that some sources have decided to dual license the data
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue

 But how can some third parties data be compatible when the CT says it
 can change any time, surly they might be compatible with the current
 instance of the license, but how can they be compatible with future
 versions of the license when they are no known?

 How can a contributor import any data and keep the data open to
 license change? How can you keep any imports at all from people who
 have not agreed to the CT directly?

 thanks
 mike

 This one has been covered pretty exhaustively previously.  To recap for all 
 interested:

 () The CTs where written carefully to say, If you contribute Contents, You 
 are indicating that, as far as You know, You have the right to authorize 
 OSMF to use and distribute those Contents under our current licence terms.  
 current license terms, so ODbL 1.0.

 () The future is the future, so cannot be known.

 () Should the license terms change in the future, there is a possibility 
 that imported data may become incompatible. Therefore the original licensor 
 needs be contacted for approval. Given the general trend to more open data, 
 after what we are all about, that approval may well be given.

 () Note also that, by design, a duty to provide first level attribution is 
 placed on the OSMF. This survives any potential license change and is 
 general the most important concern of government organisations.

 () The is always the possibility that data may need to be removed and that 
 is one of the minuses of imports. That is why it is important to always 
 understand third-party licenses and to get general consent of any 
 potentially affected, usually national or regional level, OSM mapping 
 community before importing.  There is a healthy debate indirectly about this 
 going on in the general talk list.

 Mike

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] importing ODBl data

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:03 PM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote:
 Should the licence change to something other than CC-BY-SA 2.0 or ODbL 1.0,
 OSMF have guaranteed that they will identify and remove any data
 incompatible with that licence.

 Incidentally, I believe that the burden OSMF have imposed upon themselves
 makes it almost certain that no other licence than CC-BY-SA 2.0 or ODbL 1.0
 would ever be used.

Ok, well then if this is so, then we dont need to leave the license
question open as in the CT. Why all the drama then?

If I can resolve this question, then it should not be a problem for me
to convince people to add the odbl clause to people providing data.

I cannot ask people to agree to an open license, that is out of the
question, but odbl for database rights does not seem to be a problem.

It occurs me then under certain condions then cc-by-sa data from
europe which has database rights anyway might be just fine and a moot
point.

thanks for your answers and opinions,

mike

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Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Per discussione Mike Dupont

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Christian Quest
cqu...@openstreetmap.fr wrote:
 I'd like to have some answers because after searching the wiki, the
 OSMF web site and the imports@ mailing-list archives, I could not find
 any (public) discussion about the newly required
 dedicated account.

Hi, I also had someone hold that against me on the german list,
I guess it is a new requirement that was thought up in the recent
past, you can check the wiki history to see when it was introduced.

I was not aware about it until someone said that it was being held against me.

fairness in making accusations is not something that is strong in this
community, it seems that people can just make accusations at will and
if it is not part of the party line then that person gets moderated
and otherwise applauded.

It would be nice to have some type of public voting and governance
system, I am reviewing some of them for another project, I cannot
recommend any right now, but liquidfeedback.org seems interesting.

I supposed that my comments will get me banned from the list, so if
that happens, good bye.

mike

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Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Per discussione Mike Dupont

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com wrote:
 Now that I (and not only me) know that the guidelines are subjects of
 arbitrary changes without a wide announce, I would read this page each time
 before i'm importing a postbox from opendata ?

But look, you found the notice didn't you?

Yes, said Arthur, yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a
locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the
door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.

http://www.planetclaire.org/quotes/hitchhikers/


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Re: [Talk-de] OSMF-Vorstand

2012-09-17 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Ich habe auch OTRS erfahrung. da gibt es viel zu tun.

2012/9/17 Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org:
 Ich habe sogar das Angebot
 des OTRS-Autors uns zu helfen das OTRS auf einen aktuellen Stand zu bringen
 und hab mich nicht gekümmert, das weiterzugeben, weil ich nicht recht weiss,
 an wen denn. :-(



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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSMcompiler tool

2012-09-16 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Thanks for sharing!
mike

On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Pedro Larroy
pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi

 I released some code to process OSM data from PBF dumps in python.


 https://github.com/larroy/osmcompiler


 There's an example implementation to store osm data in mongodb, but
 it's very easy to implement sink and factory to do anything else with
 the data.

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Re: [Talk-de] OSM-Karten bei wikipedia einbinden - erledigt

2012-09-16 Per discussione Mike Dupont

2012/9/16 Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net:

 danke  - damit ist meine frage erledigt!

 jan :-)

Jan, es fehlt immer noch ein infobox mit Koordinaten... das wäre das
Mindeste was man mache kann.
zb
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddersheim
{{Infobox Ortsteil einer Gemeinde in Deutschland
| Ortsteil=
| Gemeindeart = Stadt
| Gemeindename= Hattersheim am Main
| Alternativanzeige-Gemeindename =
| Ortswappen  = Wappen Eddersheim.svg
| Ortswappen-Beschreibung = Wappen der früheren Gemeinde Eddersheim
| Breitengrad = 50.03952595505495
| Längengrad  = 8.471676707267761
| Bundesland  = HE
| Höhe= 93
| Höhe-Bezug  = DE-NN
| Fläche  = 4.51
| Einwohner   = 4492
| Einwohner-Stand-Datum   = 1987
| Eingemeindungsdatum = 1972-7-1
| Postleitzahl1   = 65795
| Postleitzahl2   =
| Vorwahl1= 06145
| Vorwahl2=
| Lagekarte   =
| Lagekarte-Beschreibung  =
}}

mike

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Re: [Talk-de] OSM-Karten bei wikipedia einbinden

2012-09-15 Per discussione Mike Dupont

siehe http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlage:Coordinate und
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin zb

2012/9/15 Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net:
 hi !

 ich frage mal bei uns an und vielleicht weiß es einer.

 In  Wikipedia kann man Koordinaten einbinden für Objekte und dann gibt es
 eine Karte als Verlinkung.

 Nun werden auch mal Geographische Bereiche wie [1] beschrieben. Kann man
 irgendwie dort direkt unsere Karte einbinden?

 Gruß Jan .-)


 [1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bornkamp

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Re: [Talk-de] Vorteile OSMF-Mitgliedschaft (was: Re: OSMF-Vorstand)

2012-09-14 Per discussione Mike Dupont

Hallo,

2012/9/14 Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@gmail.com:
 Ich denke das Mitentscheiden sollte nicht das ausschlaggebende
 Kriterium sein, um beizutreten. Die Einflussmöglichkeiten der OSMF
 wird sich gegenüber der Community immer in grenzen halten (müssen), da
 ein Projekt wie OSM mit Regeln von oben grundsätzlich Probleme hat.

Ich duerfte nicht mal beitreten, das board hat gegen meine
mitgliedschaft gestimmt.
Also wenn das Bord sich wirklich geaendert hat, sollten Sie mich zulassen.
mike


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Re: [Talk-de] Vorteile OSMF-Mitgliedschaft (was: Re: OSMF-Vorstand)

2012-09-14 Per discussione Mike Dupont

2012/9/14 Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@gmail.com:
 Hallo Mike,
 die Gründe, warum das bei Dir so gelaufen ist wurde an anderer Stelle
 bereits diskutiert/erwähnt.

 Am 14. September 2012 10:51 schrieb Mike  Dupont
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com:
 Ich duerfte nicht mal beitreten, das board hat gegen meine
 mitgliedschaft gestimmt.
 Also wenn das Bord sich wirklich geaendert hat, sollten Sie mich zulassen.

 Auch in einem deutschen Verein wäre es dir vor diesem Hintergrund
 nicht besser ergangen. Eine Voraussetzung in einen Verein aufgenommen
 zu werden ist, dass man sich mit dessen Zielen identifiziert.

 Wenn ich mir da deine Fußzeile so anschaue, kommen auch mir in dieser
 Hinsicht erhebliche Bedenken.

Ich werde das noch ein mal, und zum letzten mal Klarstellen, und
danach verschwinden.

Ich bin zwar nicht einverstanden mit den Änderungen in OSM, und ich
habe meine Grunde. Trotzdem sollte ein Verein in der Lage sein auch
andere Ansichten zuzulassen. Ich denke das OSM genug Ressourcen hat
für viele Layers und auch Lizenzen. Es ist die Monopolistischer
Ansicht was ich für grundsätzlich falsch halte, und ich möchte auch
diese zum Ausdruck bringen. Ich wuerde rausgeschmissen und
ausgeschlossen, und der Ausschluss Politik ist das was ich Ändern
möchte. Das ist doch mit den Zielen der Verein vereinbar. Ich habe
stets versucht was in meiner Macht war osm zu helfen, auch wenn ich
nicht Einverstanden war.

mike


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Re: [Talk-de] Vorteile OSMF-Mitgliedschaft

2012-09-14 Per discussione Mike Dupont

2012/9/14 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de:
wer so rumtrollt wie Du
 Michael.(dont feed the trolls!)

michael. das finde ich einfach unfair.

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Legal Wording again..

2012-09-13 Per discussione Mike Dupont

this is a topic for legal.
the content is no longer cc-by-sa,
it is OdBL

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 i want the Osmosa also in that text

 content CCA from OSM
 server hosted in osmosa.net

 any idea?

 F


 On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Alex Rollin alex.rol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Data CC-By-SA by © OpenStreetMap.

 Looks great!  Also, the OdBL chage is official.  Can someone provide a new
 license text for OdBL?

 A

 On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org
 wrote:

 hi all

 we develop an apps , integrated with OSM, and we have 2 option, to use
 OSM.org and our own Osmosa.net

 take a look this URL

 http://demo.meruvian.org/module/eduunit

 the database is access to our server in osmosa.net, because both under
 our own IIX (www.iix.net.id)


 any idea for the right letter in the map box?

 F

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap GPS Points Map

2012-09-11 Per discussione Mike Dupont

I have been wondering what the license is on the gps points? is it affected
by the change?
mike

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru wrote:

 Hi!

 As you know, almost half a year ago a GPX Planet was released (
 http://blog.osmfoundation.**org/2012/04/01/bulk-gps-point-**data/http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/04/01/bulk-gps-point-data/).
 At the time I expressed a hope that someone would process that file, making
 tile layer and regional extracts. Alas, in those months the file has only
 been statistically analyzed (thanks to Pascal Neis and Steven Kay), but no
 practical use for that array of data has been found. Well, as they say, OSM
 is do-ocracy: if you want something, the only way to get it is to do it
 yourself. So, after several weeks of coding and impatiently waiting for
 processing to finish, I present to you:

 1) A tile layer of GPS points for the whole world down to zoom 11:
 http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/**gps/ http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/
 2) Regional extracts, so you won't have to wait several hours cutting your
 country out of the planet dump: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/**
 gps/files/extracts/ http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/files/extracts/
 3) All tools that were used to build that map and those extracts:
 http://svn.openstreetmap.org/**applications/utils/gps-tracks/**
 gpxplanet_tools/http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/gps-tracks/gpxplanet_tools/
 4) A nice poster with GPS points, some statistics and interesting facts:
 http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/**gps/files/world-gps-points-**
 120604-2048.pnghttp://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/files/world-gps-points-120604-2048.png

 What are uses of this? By this time I found two:

 a) Now you can adjust your trip plans to collect GPS tracks where there
 are none in OpenStreetMap database. Sorry, Germany, it's almost impossible
 in your country. But I was surprised to find some untrodden secondary and
 even primary roads in hilly regions not far from my city.

 b) The redaction bot has removed not only whole objects, but a lot of
 nodes from inside highways. Overlaying the OSM layer with GPS points map
 makes it very clear where a road deviates from GPS tracks, because the bot
 ate some of its nodes, or because it was straightened by road workers, and
 the mapper who updated it didn't bother to upload a fresh track.

 And since the GPS tile layer is useful for restoring the road network,
 I've made tiles up to zoom 15 for Poland, with green dots for using in
 JOSM. Just add tms[15]:http://zverik.osm.**rambler.ru/gps/poland/{zoom}/{*
 *x}/{y}.pnghttp://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/gps/poland/%7Bzoom%7D/%7Bx%7D/%7By%7D.pngas
  a TMS layer, and you're good.

 I hope to see more uses to the GPX Planet, and to see it updated more
 often. Also, I'd like to remind Ian and Grant about their unfinished tool:
 https://github.com/iandees/**planet-gpx-dump/https://github.com/iandees/planet-gpx-dump/;)

 Thanks,
 IZ

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Re: [Talk-de] Rechte der OSMF

yup that is me.

2012/8/26 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com

 Ein aktueller Vorgang bei der OSMF hat meine Aufmerksamkeit geweckt.
 Offenbar hat das Board entschieden, 2 Leuten, die um Aufnahme in die
 OSM Foundation gebeten hatten, diese nicht zu gewähren. Vermutlich
 handelt es sich dabei um Hackermike und Edwin-ldbg.

 Das entnehme ich diesem Kommentar [1] von Henk Hoff:


 Henk says
 August 25, 2012 at 23:49

 The board has decided to not grant OSM Foundation membership to 2
 individuals who’s behavior are clearly disruptive and not respectful;
 and who’s membership fee were paid for by a third party.
 Within the OSM Foundation there is ample room for discussion; in a
 civil and respectful way.


 Offenbar hat das Board gemäß der Satzung [2]  wirklich diese
 Möglichkeit, soweit ich das herauslese (No person shall be admitted
 as a member of the Association unless he is approved by the Board.).
 Dennoch finde ich das hier etwas problematisch, insbesondere vor dem
 Hintergrund, dass die beiden sich ja zur kommenden Vorstandswahl
 aufstellen lassen wollten. Wie seht Ihr das? Gerade bei Hackermike
 finde ich nicht unbedingt gegeben, dass er sich nicht respektvoll
 verhalten habe (unterm Strich). Zugegebenermaßen hat er ziemlich viel
 auf der Lizenzumstellung rumgeritten und auch sonst einigen Mist
 gebaut (Imports nicht von dediziertem Account), aber auf der
 Habenseite denke ich schon, dass er auch einiges positives zu OSM
 beigetragen hat. M.E. sollte das Board nicht die Möglichkeit haben,
 unliebsame Leute aus der Community auszuschließen. Wenn die Mehrheit
 die beiden nicht haben will, brauchen sie sie ja nicht zu wählen.

 Gruß Martin

 

 [1]
 http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/08/16/osm-foundation-agm-and-board-election/
 [2] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association

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Re: [Talk-de] Rechte der OSMF

Die haben gesagt als Begründung, das ich nicht die CT akzeptiert habe, was
total falsch ist.

wie könnte ich den blog Post machen, ohne die CTs zu Akzeptiren:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Michael%20DuPont/diary/15777
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Michael%20DuPont/diary/15777

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Michael%20DuPont/diary/15777ich
habe mein bestes getan um auch meine Arbeit weiterzugeben, und ich habe
auch alle quellen genannt.

es stimmt einfach nicht was das Board sagt, ein Beispiel der Ignoranz was
den board beherrscht, was ich als Kandidat ändern möchte.

mike

2012/8/27 Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com

 yup that is me.


 2012/8/26 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com

 Ein aktueller Vorgang bei der OSMF hat meine Aufmerksamkeit geweckt.
 Offenbar hat das Board entschieden, 2 Leuten, die um Aufnahme in die
 OSM Foundation gebeten hatten, diese nicht zu gewähren. Vermutlich
 handelt es sich dabei um Hackermike und Edwin-ldbg.

 Das entnehme ich diesem Kommentar [1] von Henk Hoff:


 Henk says
 August 25, 2012 at 23:49

 The board has decided to not grant OSM Foundation membership to 2
 individuals who’s behavior are clearly disruptive and not respectful;
 and who’s membership fee were paid for by a third party.
 Within the OSM Foundation there is ample room for discussion; in a
 civil and respectful way.


 Offenbar hat das Board gemäß der Satzung [2]  wirklich diese
 Möglichkeit, soweit ich das herauslese (No person shall be admitted
 as a member of the Association unless he is approved by the Board.).
 Dennoch finde ich das hier etwas problematisch, insbesondere vor dem
 Hintergrund, dass die beiden sich ja zur kommenden Vorstandswahl
 aufstellen lassen wollten. Wie seht Ihr das? Gerade bei Hackermike
 finde ich nicht unbedingt gegeben, dass er sich nicht respektvoll
 verhalten habe (unterm Strich). Zugegebenermaßen hat er ziemlich viel
 auf der Lizenzumstellung rumgeritten und auch sonst einigen Mist
 gebaut (Imports nicht von dediziertem Account), aber auf der
 Habenseite denke ich schon, dass er auch einiges positives zu OSM
 beigetragen hat. M.E. sollte das Board nicht die Möglichkeit haben,
 unliebsame Leute aus der Community auszuschließen. Wenn die Mehrheit
 die beiden nicht haben will, brauchen sie sie ja nicht zu wählen.

 Gruß Martin

 

 [1]
 http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/08/16/osm-foundation-agm-and-board-election/
 [2] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association

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Re: [Talk-de] Rechte der OSMF

Hallo
Ich fuhle mich hier angesprochen. was soll das?
mike

2012/8/26 Simon Poole si...@poole.ch

 üblichen FOSM-Spam




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Re: [Talk-de] Rechte der OSMF

Hallo Simon,
fuer mich ist fosm immer noch osm. Warum kann nicht osm die cc-by-sa
datenbank weiter parallel betreiben?
aussserdem ist die Ablehung ist formell fehlerhaft. Es muss wohl diskutiert
werden.
Ich werde weiter mich dafuer einsetzen die Problem zu beheben wo ich sie
sehe.
mike

2012/8/27 Simon Poole si...@poole.ch


 Ich denke man kann in guten Treuen darüber diskutieren ob die Ablehnung
 der Mitgliedschaftsanträge durch die OSMF geschickt, nötig, vernünftig
 etc. war, oder ob (meiner Meinung nach) einfach hätte darüber stehen
 sollen und normal die Wahl durchziehen.

 Das alles hat aber nichts damit zu tun ob man das Verhalten der von der
 Ablehnung betroffenen gut heisst oder irgendwelches Mitleid mit Ihnen
 hat. Speziell in deinem Fall ist die Ablehnung zu 100% selbstverschuldet
 und ja, du bespammst seit Wochen verschiedene OSM Mailinglisten mit
 direkter und indirekter FOSM Werbung. Mach also bitte nicht auf
 Unschuldslamm.

 Simon


 Am 27.08.2012 12:53, schrieb Mike Dupont:
  Hallo
  Ich fuhle mich hier angesprochen. was soll das?
  mike
 
  2012/8/26 Simon Poole si...@poole.ch
 
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Re: [Talk-de] nervige (teilweise unterschwellige) FOSM-Werbung :-(

Hallo ich rede hier und jetzt ueber mein Kandiatur fuer den board, und es
war thema, ich habe hier nur geantwortet. warum hier der Ton?
welcher spam sprichst Du an? Ich bin immer noch bei flossk in dem thema OSM
drin,
mike

2012/8/27 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de

Am 27.08.2012 12:53, schrieb Mike Dupont:

Ich fuhle mich hier angesprochen. was soll das?

üblichen FOSM-Spam

Weil Du den Ball gerade hoch wirfst (BTW: der Kommentar _betrifft_
_nicht_ _nur_ _Dich_):
warum macht Ihr eure (eure - teilweise unterschwellige - immer wieder
kehrende) FOSM-Werbung auf OSM-Mailinglisten? Das sind keine
FOSM-Mailinglisten, macht Eure Werbung doch auf Euren eigenen
FOSM-Mailingliste(n). Macht den FORK richtig und lasst OSM in Ruhe und
zappelt nicht immer weiter am Rockzipfel herum.
Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen dass OSM-Leute auf FOSM-Mailinglisten
Werbung machen (man überzeuge mich vom Gegenteil). Ich zumindest lasse von
Forks in jeglicher Art und Weise die Finger: wer entschieden hat zu gehen,
dem soll man keine Steine in den Weg legen. Aber diese welche entschieden
haben zu gehen sollten dann im Gegenzug auch nicht immer provzieren und
stänkern. Das nervt einfach nur und ist unnötig. Und es ist ein Zeichen von
Schwäche und schlechtem Stil...

Just my 2 cents,
Michael.

PS: es gibt unter den FOSM-Leuten durchaus Personen welche ich respektiere
und es traurig finde, dass sie OSM verlassen haben. Aber es war deren
Entscheidung. Punkt, aus, fertig, vorbei, denen renne ich nicht hinterher.

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Re: [Talk-de] nervige (teilweise unterschwellige) FOSM-Werbung :-(

Gut, und das habe ich später nicht gemacht, ich habe hingewiesen das es die
Daten noch gibt und wenn die es nicht wissen, die können mich fragen.
Ich habe zu keiner zeit gespammt, sonder ich habe mich in der Diskussion
ordnungsgemäß beteiligt. Wo trifft es die Definition von Spam bitte?

Also ich bin nicht auf die osm listen um fuer forks Werbung zu machen,
sonder um legitim hier mich zu Wahl zu stellen um auch aktiv etwas zu
verändern.
Außerdem bin ich immer noch mit der Entwicklung von OSM tools beschäftigt
und das ist wohl in der Interesse von allen.

mike

2012/8/27 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de

Am 27.08.2012 22:36, schrieb Mike Dupont:

welcher spam sprichst Du an?

Solche komplett unnötigen Sätze wie you work is preserved in fosm.org
als Kommentar auf die völlig unsinnige und nutzlose Jammerei von Personen
welcher der neuen Lizenz nicht zugestimmt haben und deren Daten redacted
wurden.
Es gab nun mal eine sehr deutliche Mehrheit der Mapper, welche für eine
Lizenzumstellung gestimmt haben. Scheinbar hat aber eine kleine Minderheit
z.B. ein aus meiner Sicht gestörtes Demokratieverständnis (oder was auch
immer). Aus diesem Grund nerven sie fortwährend und sinnlos herum und
stänkert wo es geht gegen den Fortschritt welcher endlich im seit 2007
andauernden Prozess (=Lizenzumstellung) gemacht wird und den Prozess
abschließen wird.

Grüße,
Michael.

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[OSM-talk] horrible job in gjilan,kosovo

Hi there,
I wanted to say that you guys have destroyed our work in gjilan, why?
cannot you read carefully the license and do the due diligence?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.46398lon=21.47688zoom=15layers=M

we are going to have an event there and i just noticed it.
http://www.flossk.org/en/events/flossk-teambuilding-event-gjilan-hotel-kristal-august-27

omg!
mike

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Re: [OSM-talk] horrible job in gjilan,kosovo

I think i gave all the needed info, if you have any questions, just ask.

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote:

 wasn't willing to volunteer information as to which imports these were




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Re: [OSM-talk] horrible job in gjilan,kosovo

Richard,
your insults, personal attacks and negative comments that I have had to
endure in the past are now continuing now. I wonder why people tolerate it.

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote:

 Consequently unless the bot magically gained psychic powers and could guess
 the licence of each changeset, his non-acceptance stood. The bot is clever
 but it's not _that_ clever.

 Mike - all your edits appear to be preserved at fosm.org so I suggest you
 use that. And the FOSM lists.


Up to now, I have not asked anyone in kosovo to join fosm, I have tried to
keep my personal reservations about the license change to myself and still
wear the hat of being an osm promoter in kosovo. Now I get someone who is a
total jerk from the fosm board asking me to leave or what?

why does the community tolerate such bad leadership?

mike



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Re: [OSM-talk] horrible job in gjilan,kosovo

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Mike Dupont 
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 fosm board


the osmf board of course. dyslexics untie!


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Re: [OSM-talk] horrible job in gjilan,kosovo

Hello,

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk
 wrote:

 you've been threatening to do


I am not threatening here at all. I am trying to do to my job and to help
people in Kosovo with the limited time and resource I have. I got into osm
to help these people and they have been helped. We even started to port
creative commons to Albanian language and Kosovar law, only for the osmf to
ditch that. Most of the editors there have accepted the new license, even
if they don't understand it, even if it is not in their language and even
if they have no right to relicense everything, but who cares about that? it
is their problem now. I at least had the backbone not to accept a license
that I knew I could not, I tried to work with you to my ability and to
provide alternatives to prevent massive damage.

The hurdles here are being put up by the osm foundation in changing the
rules of the game, the license midstream. It is not only that the license
has changed, but the very fact that it will also change agan and again at
whim. How can we spend all this time to port a license over for you to
throw it away, and the new regime, which I am only now starting to
understand also has no porting process like cc does, but I brought that up.
It is just more and more problems being piled up and really I don't want to
have to deal with them, but I guess the osmf are just going to force this
new regime onto everyone, or force them out.

Instead of helping me do my job, you are attacking me personally and
otherwise. Instead of helping me fix the problems and addressing my issues,
you are ignoring them.

We are going to find some solutions for these issues, with or without your
help. Instead of jumping in to help fix kosovo, which is not a priority for
you, you just delete the data and destroy cities, instead of hiring lawyers
like creative commons does and engaging legal teams across the world, you
push the legal problems onto the little people and give yourselves the
right to create more problems at whim.

We are going to look for a solution to relicense the iMapp data, and since
you did not bother to contact them or look into it, I will have to.  I had
provided the sources for the data and contact to do it, but it was not
done, choosing to just delete the data instead.

as I said, a horrible job.

thanks,

mike

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Re: [OSM-talk] horrible job in gjilan,kosovo

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 5:08 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:

  will not. I dont plan on contributing much more as a mapper to OSM,
   but as a programmer.

 To be fair, Mike, you didn't make a threat; you made a promise that
 you wouldn't contribute to mapping.


you wouldn't contribute to mapping. - you wouldn't contribute much to
mapping.

yes, and I am not contributing much as a mapper, in fact very little, but
as a programmer and also my role in flossk for building up a community.


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Re: [OSM-talk] horrible job in gjilan,kosovo