Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Paul Johnson]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Greg Morgan 
wrote:

> Who are these data consumers that you speak of?  If they are
> freeloaders, I could careless about them.  One of shifts that I have
> noticed over the years is that we appear to no longer care about what
> mappers do or how we improve the ecosystem for mappers but I hear all
> about data consumers.  The data consumers need to adapt to OSM and not
> the other way around.
>

Along these same lines, have I mentioned that it's time we stop tagging
routes on the underlying ways like they're the same congruent entity (eg,
lcn=yes and ref=* on member ways) and fully embrace route=road and
route=bicycle relations yet?
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Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 10:33 PM, Tom Bloom  wrote:

> I've been deleting them if wildly wrong, and would like to delete all I
> encounter. Any ideas?
>

When an area of tiger data has dozens of such driveways, which bear
basically random correspondence with air photos,
I'll delete them also.

They're not good data.  If someone wants to map driveways, fine, they can
start from scratch and be ahead.
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Re: [Talk-us] what happened to Sacramento?

[Richard Welty]

On 9/30/15 12:47 PM, Ray Kiddy wrote:
> Wow. I have not gotten to the point, in my mapping adventures, where I
> have had to look at changesets like this. A new thing to learn.
>
> Thanks for the reverts. I will get to fixing the rest of that soon.
>
>
you may want to look to newer TIGER boundary data as it does change
over time. 2014 City boundaries for California may be found here, already
converted into useful forms:

GeoJSON:
https://github.com/boundaryissues/TIGER2014/blob/master/place/CA/tl_2014_06_place-25.geojson

Shapefiles:
https://github.com/boundaryissues/TIGER2014/blob/master/place/CA/tl_2014_06_place-25.zip

richard
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Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[stevea]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Shawn K. Quinn 
<skqu...@rushpost.com> 
wrote:

In urban areas, it makes no sense to try to map residential driveways


It sounds cliché, but you ought to believe it:  I 
go to parties like that.  When I check my GPS, I 
like to see these in a map that works.  Say, at 
night.  So here I agree with Paul, I suppose we 
both go to parties like that.  Lots do.


As I see driveways (in Bing, for example), 
especially as I know the area and think "good to 
know that" I'll put them in our map.  Good to 
know that, especially as you can see that.  Whew, 
I thought I was going to have to walk the long 
way around the park, at night!  I am glad when I 
find these.  We have Civil Code 1008 (permission 
to pass on private property vs. is/is becoming 
right-of-way) in our state, so pay attention to 
the signs.  These become access= tags.


Tag what you see.  Tag what is.  This isn't 
difficult.  Maybe sometimes a little ambiguous or 
confusing, and so kind of discussion prone, but 
we have here to untangle things.  Doing so even 
works much of the time!


SteveA
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Re: [Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Mike N]

On 9/30/2015 2:40 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:

 I do find two things remarkable about this plugin's
output:

 1. It seems to have picked out an incomplete set based on the paths
relative to imagery.
 2. I have no way of being able to survey the exact location of the GPS
output from the plugin from the ground (it's inside a fence factory,
/of course/ it's fenced off!), so I can only assume the GPS was
located on one of those big diesel-powered forklifts.


  I had a look at the plugin - it does find some interesting things.  I 
find that truckers use the Scout App, and the profile where they drive 
around a huge factory to pick up / drop off a load appears the same as 
if a car is going through a previously unknown subdivision.


  So once the plugin identifies an area of interest, confirm with 
imagery or TIGER for the next step

   - add driveways to a factory
   - Add new road(s) from TIGER
   - Schedule the area for a survey


  The odd cloud of points comes from random inaccuracies of a 
smartphone inside a vehicle, and excluded for a certain distance from 
existing roads to minimize false positives.



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Re: [Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Paul Johnson]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Mike N  wrote:

> On 9/30/2015 2:40 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
>>  I do find two things remarkable about this plugin's
>> output:
>>
>>  1. It seems to have picked out an incomplete set based on the paths
>> relative to imagery.
>>  2. I have no way of being able to survey the exact location of the GPS
>> output from the plugin from the ground (it's inside a fence factory,
>> /of course/ it's fenced off!), so I can only assume the GPS was
>> located on one of those big diesel-powered forklifts.
>>
>
>   I had a look at the plugin - it does find some interesting things.  I
> find that truckers use the Scout App, and the profile where they drive
> around a huge factory to pick up / drop off a load appears the same as if a
> car is going through a previously unknown subdivision.
>

Wow, that's both awesome and a little toe-curling, though would be nice if
Scout had some of the alarm and vehicle parameter options of Osmand.


>   So once the plugin identifies an area of interest, confirm with imagery
> or TIGER for the next step
>- add driveways to a factory
>

Done.  Might have to check


>   The odd cloud of points comes from random inaccuracies of a smartphone
> inside a vehicle, and excluded for a certain distance from existing roads
> to minimize false positives.
>

OK, that makes a bit of sense.  Wonder if there's a way to enable that edge
case data to see other routable approaches.
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycle_greenway

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Harald Kliems  wrote:

> I would map greenways/bike boulevards as lcn=yes or, if they have a name,
> maybe as a lcn route relation. Other than that, I think it's more important
> to map physical characteristics such as stop signs, bike-specific
> infrastructure, diverters, and speed limits on those routes.
>

Even if it's not named, the fact that it may be named or numbered in the
future and generally traverses multiple ways (or a way that may be split
with the addition of more detail later), I tend to go with relations for
routes rather than go with lcn/rcn/ncn=yes.  The tags on the way should
describe the way, not the route; the route relation is there for the route.
 (Have I mentioned it's time to kill ref=* on ways as describing the
overlying route yet, like Linus killed ext1 after ext3 became a thing?)
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Re: [Talk-us] Self Storage Places

[Jack Burke]

I use commercial. 

To me, retail implies that you can take home a product (even if it's food in 
your stomach). Commercial means you are buying a service. 

-jack



On October 1, 2015 1:35:14 AM EDT, Clifford Snow  
wrote:
>On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Hans De Kryger
>
>wrote:
>
>> What landuse should i use for Self Storage places?
>
>
>I'd most likely use retail but commercial depending on the
>location,might
>also be appropriate.
>
>
>-- 
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>osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Self Storage Places

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Hans De Kryger 
wrote:

> What landuse should i use for Self Storage places?


I'd most likely use retail but commercial depending on the location,might
also be appropriate.


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Re: [Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Jack Burke]

Clearly, your sample contained nuts. 


On September 30, 2015 2:40:37 PM EDT, Paul Johnson  wrote:
>On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>>
>> Our OSM team cooked up something new. A missing roads plugin for
>JOSM. I
>> think it's pretty nice but I would really like to hear what you
>think.
>>
>
>Neat, has potential.
>
>You can read some more about it on my diary
>(http://bit.ly/missingroads)
>> but it's basically what it says on the tin. The plugin will show
>where we
>> think roads are missing from OSM based on GPS data so you can add
>them :)
>>
>
>Based on whose GPS data from where?  I trust the source in this
>question
>is completely halal, kosher, gluten-free, vegan, organic, free-range,
>all-natural data, but some of the output I'm getting from it is rather
>odd.  Take, for example, this screenshot in JOSM near node 148319848
>
>in my
>neighborhood.
>
>
>​
>Other than highlighting my own inadvertently selective blindness (what
>with
>having not mapped the large and aging chain link fence factory on the
>northeast corner of the intersection; Brinks behind my favorite
>QuikTrip
>
>only
>recently appeared on Bing), I do find two things remarkable about this
>plugin's output:
>
>   1. It seems to have picked out an incomplete set based on the paths
>   relative to imagery.
> 2. I have no way of being able to survey the exact location of the GPS
>output from the plugin from the ground (it's inside a fence factory,
>*of
> course* it's fenced off!), so I can only assume the GPS was located on
>   one of those big diesel-powered forklifts.
>
>
>
>
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[Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi all,

Our OSM team cooked up something new. A missing roads plugin for JOSM. I
think it's pretty nice but I would really like to hear what you think.

You can read some more about it on my diary (http://bit.ly/missingroads)
but it's basically what it says on the tin. The plugin will show where we
think roads are missing from OSM based on GPS data so you can add them :)

Take it for a spin and let me know what you think, what we could improve,
or just if you like it!

Martijn
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Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Toby Murray  wrote:
> I run into this as well. If I don't see anything close to the way on
> imagery I definitely have very little problem deleting them.
>
> I also question the access=private tagging although not because of the
> rendering. I mean technically it is correct I suppose but if you are
> trying to route to an address at the end of a long driveway, the
> router should tell you to go down the driveway. Tagging it as


If this really is true, then perhaps you should file a bug report.  If
I accurately map a residential gated community with access=private,
show the gates, then wouldn't that be more valuable to set what
expectations are required to get into the area.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16842943#map=18/33.78757/-111.98892

> access=private would probably prevent that from happening in most
> routers. I would say access=destination might be more accurate however
> really I think data consumers should know what highway=service and

Who are these data consumers that you speak of?  If they are
freeloaders, I could careless about them.  One of shifts that I have
noticed over the years is that we appear to no longer care about what
mappers do or how we improve the ecosystem for mappers but I hear all
about data consumers.  The data consumers need to adapt to OSM and not
the other way around.

> service=driveway together mean and appropriately handle it without an
> explicit access tag.

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Re: [Talk-us] what happened to Sacramento?

[Ray Kiddy]

On Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:12:52 + (UTC)
Minh Nguyen  wrote:

> Jack Burke  writes:
> 
> > 
> > You're not crazy. Just using the regular OSM website interface, I
> > can find
> the city node, and the county boundary, but not a city boundary.
> AFAICT, it isn't a consolidated city-County, so it should exist. 
> 
> Looks like the original TIGER boundary way got deleted back in 2010,
> and I can't find any traces of ways that superseded it:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/4084221
> 
> As a first step, I undeleted that way using Potlatch 1:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/33135846
> 
> Now it needs to be turned into a relation and integrated with the
> adjacent boundary ways.
> 

Wow. I have not gotten to the point, in my mapping adventures, where I
have had to look at changesets like this. A new thing to learn.

Thanks for the reverts. I will get to fixing the rest of that soon.

thanx - ray

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