Re: [Talk-us] Join us for another import party at the L.A. Times June 25

[Jonathan Schleuss]

Sorry if this is duplication: didn't know if my last email went through.

On Jun 30, 2016, at 10:00 AM, Michael Reichert  wrote:

Hi,

Am Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:20:46 + schrieb Jonathan Schleuss:
The Los Angeles Times will host another import party to push the "Great
L.A. County Import" forward. We've imported more than half a million
buildings with the great help of locals and the folks from Mapbox.

Did each participant use a separate account for this import?

Yes. We have some users who didn't have a separate account, but most are here:
https://github.com/osmlab/labuildings/issues/40
And inside the "stats" pages under each HOT task here: 
http://labuildingsimport.com
 


My focus is to use this import strengthen the Southern California OSM
community. But, the project is open to all. If you're in the area,
please join us.

Do you really believe that this helps the local community? A healthy map 
has a strong community and a strong community consists out of people who 
look after their neighbourhood on the map (i.e. keep data up to date).


I do. I've hosted four import events and reached out to a ton of local editors. 
Work still needs to be done. Let me know if you have suggestions on how to 
strengthen the community further.
 


Meetup even page Import guidelines Tasking manager I've also been
working to improve our language on why we're doing this. Feedback and
more ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Why are we doing this?

• To improve our map! More data will allow more users to create projects
and do analysis on a variety of things. How many units are located
within 1,000 feet of a freeway? What's the average building age in a
neighborhood? What's the tallest building on Sunset Boulevard? The data
will tell you.

• To catch up with other cities! New York has buildings. Seattle has
buildings. San Francisco. Portland. Even Bakersfield has buildings. L.A.
County should too!

• Because a big earthquake is coming. Free and open data will assist
first responders. And later it will allow folks to update the buildings
with tags showing whether they have been destroyed, are dangerous or
have been red-tagged.

Why do buildings have to be at OSM? Is there any problem which prevents 
you and others to use a free-licensed third party source for building 
data if you have/want to create an emergency map?


No problems. The buildings will improve the map and will allow a redudant and 
maybe better supply of data in the event of a major disaster. For instance, if 
Los Angeles is hit with a large earthquake, will the county's GIS servers be 
available? Will there be power. Many unknowns here and crowd-sourcing the 
disaster's effects seems like a good move. Then anyone can download and make 
their own custom map. For instance, I could update my neighborhood with 
services and distribute printed maps if power/internet is out. Buildings will 
improve a block-by-block map.
 


• To encourage more edits. Once buildings are in the map, people will be
able to orient themselves to the shapes, making it easier to add more
data, like names or businesses.

Adding POIs also works without buildings on the map. You still have 
aerial imagery (i.e. Bing). Apart from offline editors like OsmAnd and 
MAPS.ME, you have an aerial image available at all those editors.


Yes, true. And Los Angles loves the strip mall, which is one building with many 
POIs. We're looking at importing active businesses and other items here: 
https://github.com/socal-osm

Thanks for comments, Michael.

Jon
 


Best regards

Michael


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Re: [Talk-us] What should we do for wildfires?

[Russell Deffner]

Yes Val,

Maybe I sounded a bit too discouraging in my first reply, so in my opinion 
there's really only two things we need to do to get OSM used in US disaster 
response:
1. Keep mapping and doing all the things we do to continually improve OSM; the 
more 'complete'/up-to-date the map is before the incident, the more useful it 
will be.
2. Keep up outreach - both to agencies and individuals...

Getting general awareness to individual firefighters/responders is easier and 
may be more successful; however, myself and a few others from HOT recently 
worked with folks from FEMA to generate data in OSM for the Mariana Islands; as 
there wasn't really any public source. And HOT helped support Hurricane Sandy, 
but not exactly/directly via the typical OSM mapping projects. So we have made 
some progress and of course there's lots of folks in local, state and federal 
government on this list who are working on this stuff. Specific to this fire, 
or any incident, if we do want to set-up a mapping project; I can help there.

=Russ

-Original Message-
From: Valerie Anderson [mailto:vale...@andersongeospatial.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 9:37 AM
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] What should we do for wildfires?

Hey all,

I'm a current wildland firefighter but all I do are prescribed fires
here in Florida. In terms of getting ICs using OSM your best bet would
be to get they guys who do fire every week to start using and
contributing to OSM. They're usually the ones tapped for local and
remote wildfires. They also have a ton of data for firelines, land
cover, escape routes, and wetlands. I think you probably won't be able
to get anyone to use OSM for incidents in the US until it's a lot
better, but a better first step would be to get local governments to
quit using their own data/proprietary programs to manage their roads,
streetlights, and routing emergency vehicles and get a few to switch to
OSM. That would make an IC much more likely to rely on OSM for a future
wildfire, particularly if a local burn boss was already familiar with
it.

Cheers,

Val


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Re: [Talk-us] Join us for another import party at the L.A. Times June 25

[Robert Banick]

Very interesting, let me talk to my coworkers and get back to you on that.
Perhaps the Japanese OSM community would have some ideas.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:59 PM Jonathan Schleuss  wrote:

> Thanks, Robert.
>
> I do have some structural information about some types of earthquake-risk
> buildings. We have a database of "dingbats" that Los Angeles city is
> mandating be retrofitted or proved safe over the next few years. These are
> apartment buildings with parking underneath the dwelling spaces, which are
> supported by small poles. A lot of these collapsed during the last major
> quake in the 90s.
>
> Adding this has come up in meetings before. I haven't spent too much time
> thinking about it. I'd love any ideas and suggestions.
>
> Database:
> http://graphics.latimes.com/soft-story-apartments-needing-retrofit/
> Story:
> http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-quake-risk-20160415-story.html
> New github repo to track this idea:
> https://github.com/socal-osm/earthquake-risk
>
> Jon
>
> On Jun 30, 2016, at 10:50 AM, Robert Banick  wrote:
>
> Hey Jonathon,
>
> This looks great, it’s fantastic to see the LA Times leading on this work.
> Adding buildings to LA is super cool. Having grown up in suburbanized
> Atlanta I know it’s a lot harder to wander about and add buildings than in,
> say, New York or Berlin.
>
> Quick question: do you all have any structural information about the
> buildings related to earthquake safety? If so I’d be interested in what
> tagging schema you’re using for them. I work with OSM for disaster
> management in my day job so I’m always keeping an eye out for good ideas
> from others.
>
> Keep it up and don’t let the usual import haters get you down.
>
> - Robert
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:37 PM Rihards  wrote:
>
>> On 2016.06.30. 17:58, Michael Reichert wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Am Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:20:46 + schrieb Jonathan Schleuss:
>> >> The Los Angeles Times will host another import party to push the "Great
>> >> L.A. County Import" forward. We've imported more than half a million
>> >> buildings with the great help of locals and the folks from Mapbox.
>> >
>> > Did each participant use a separate account for this import?
>> >
>> >> My focus is to use this import strengthen the Southern California OSM
>> >> community. But, the project is open to all. If you're in the area,
>> >> please join us.
>> >
>> > Do you really believe that this helps the local community? A healthy map
>> > has a strong community and a strong community consists out of people who
>> > look after their neighbourhood on the map (i.e. keep data up to date).
>>
>> a good import motivates local mappers. when they see that the map is
>> kinda there but a pub, shop or housenumber is missing, it easier for
>> them to start.
>> if they see blank area, they go "why bother".
>> building outlines are very hard to collect for amateur mappers, and it
>> is a large amount of work even with good sources.
>>
>> i'd like to say thank you to everybody who has done a proper, careful
>> building import (no overlaps with existing buildings, no nodes on
>> straight sections, orthogonalised etc :) ) - i know it was a lot of work.
>> ...
>> --
>>   Rihards
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Join us for another import party at the L.A. Times June 25

[Jonathan Schleuss]

Thanks, Robert.

I do have some structural information about some types of earthquake-risk buildings. We 
have a database of "dingbats" that Los Angeles city is mandating be retrofitted 
or proved safe over the next few years. These are apartment buildings with parking 
underneath the dwelling spaces, which are supported by small poles. A lot of these 
collapsed during the last major quake in the 90s.

Adding this has come up in meetings before. I haven't spent too much time 
thinking about it. I'd love any ideas and suggestions.

Database: http://graphics.latimes.com/soft-story-apartments-needing-retrofit/
Story: 
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-quake-risk-20160415-story.html
New github repo to track this idea: https://github.com/socal-osm/earthquake-risk

Jon

On Jun 30, 2016, at 10:50 AM, Robert Banick  wrote:

Hey Jonathon,

This looks great, it’s fantastic to see the LA Times leading on this work. 
Adding buildings to LA is super cool. Having grown up in suburbanized Atlanta I 
know it’s a lot harder to wander about and add buildings than in, say, New York 
or Berlin. 

Quick question: do you all have any structural information about the buildings 
related to earthquake safety? If so I’d be interested in what tagging schema 
you’re using for them. I work with OSM for disaster management in my day job so 
I’m always keeping an eye out for good ideas from others.

Keep it up and don’t let the usual import haters get you down.

- Robert


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:37 PM Rihards  wrote:
On 2016.06.30. 17:58, Michael Reichert wrote:

Hi,

Am Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:20:46 + schrieb Jonathan Schleuss:

The Los Angeles Times will host another import party to push the "Great
L.A. County Import" forward. We've imported more than half a million
buildings with the great help of locals and the folks from Mapbox.


Did each participant use a separate account for this import?


My focus is to use this import strengthen the Southern California OSM
community. But, the project is open to all. If you're in the area,
please join us.


Do you really believe that this helps the local community? A healthy map
has a strong community and a strong community consists out of people who
look after their neighbourhood on the map (i.e. keep data up to date).


a good import motivates local mappers. when they see that the map is
kinda there but a pub, shop or housenumber is missing, it easier for
them to start.
if they see blank area, they go "why bother".
building outlines are very hard to collect for amateur mappers, and it
is a large amount of work even with good sources.

i'd like to say thank you to everybody who has done a proper, careful
building import (no overlaps with existing buildings, no nodes on
straight sections, orthogonalised etc :) ) - i know it was a lot of work.
...
--
  Rihards

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Re: [Talk-us] Join us for another import party at the L.A. Times June 25

[Robert Banick]

Hey Jonathon,

This looks great, it’s fantastic to see the LA Times leading on this work.
Adding buildings to LA is super cool. Having grown up in suburbanized
Atlanta I know it’s a lot harder to wander about and add buildings than in,
say, New York or Berlin.

Quick question: do you all have any structural information about the
buildings related to earthquake safety? If so I’d be interested in what
tagging schema you’re using for them. I work with OSM for disaster
management in my day job so I’m always keeping an eye out for good ideas
from others.

Keep it up and don’t let the usual import haters get you down.

- Robert


On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:37 PM Rihards  wrote:

> On 2016.06.30. 17:58, Michael Reichert wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Am Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:20:46 + schrieb Jonathan Schleuss:
> >> The Los Angeles Times will host another import party to push the "Great
> >> L.A. County Import" forward. We've imported more than half a million
> >> buildings with the great help of locals and the folks from Mapbox.
> >
> > Did each participant use a separate account for this import?
> >
> >> My focus is to use this import strengthen the Southern California OSM
> >> community. But, the project is open to all. If you're in the area,
> >> please join us.
> >
> > Do you really believe that this helps the local community? A healthy map
> > has a strong community and a strong community consists out of people who
> > look after their neighbourhood on the map (i.e. keep data up to date).
>
> a good import motivates local mappers. when they see that the map is
> kinda there but a pub, shop or housenumber is missing, it easier for
> them to start.
> if they see blank area, they go "why bother".
> building outlines are very hard to collect for amateur mappers, and it
> is a large amount of work even with good sources.
>
> i'd like to say thank you to everybody who has done a proper, careful
> building import (no overlaps with existing buildings, no nodes on
> straight sections, orthogonalised etc :) ) - i know it was a lot of work.
> ...
> --
>   Rihards
>
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Re: [Talk-us] What should we do for wildfires?

[Valerie Anderson]

Hey all,

I'm a current wildland firefighter but all I do are prescribed fires
here in Florida. In terms of getting ICs using OSM your best bet would
be to get they guys who do fire every week to start using and
contributing to OSM. They're usually the ones tapped for local and
remote wildfires. They also have a ton of data for firelines, land
cover, escape routes, and wetlands. I think you probably won't be able
to get anyone to use OSM for incidents in the US until it's a lot
better, but a better first step would be to get local governments to
quit using their own data/proprietary programs to manage their roads,
streetlights, and routing emergency vehicles and get a few to switch to
OSM. That would make an IC much more likely to rely on OSM for a future
wildfire, particularly if a local burn boss was already familiar with
it.

Cheers,

Val

On Thu, 2016-06-30 at 14:58 +, talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org
wrote:
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> 
>    1. WeeklyOSM 310 (Jinal Foflia)
>    2. Re: What should we do for wildfires? (Josh Spencer)
>    3. Re: What should we do for wildfires? (Russell Deffner)
>    4. Re: Join us for another import party at the L.A. Times  J
> une
>   25 (Michael Reichert)
> 
> 
> ---
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> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 19:11:32 +0530
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> To: OpenStreetMap talk-us list 
> Subject: [Talk-us] WeeklyOSM 310
> Message-ID:
>    .com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue #310, is now available online
> in
> English, giving as always a summary of all things happening in the
> OpenStreetMap world:
> 
> http://www.weeklyosm.eu/archives/7765
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jinal Foflia 
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:24:35 +
> From: Josh Spencer 
> To: "talk-us@openstreetmap.org" 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] What should we do for wildfires?
> Message-ID:
>    M>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I work for a large insurance company and stumbled upon open street
> maps and their humanitarian mapping for some international
> catastrophe events.  Ironically, I've just switched email programs
> and my mail rule didn't transfer, so I have been paying more
> attention to this subscription.
> 
> I've always been curious about this and have been trying to see how
> all of this works.  I used a lot of public data as we planned for
> Fort McMurray response.  Any sort of mapping that confirms damaged
> buildings would be a great resource as every time something like this
> happens, the information flow is different.  I'm hoping that once I
> figure out how the maps and updates work, I can share them with some
> of the others I work with and contribute more.  I've got a few other
> industry contacts that would probably be up for the same as well.
> 
> If anyone can send me the best place to get started on fully
> understanding all of this, I would appreciate it.
> 
> 
> Josh Spencer
> 
> 
> 
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> From: "Russell 

Re: [Talk-us] Join us for another import party at the L.A. Times June 25

[Rihards]

On 2016.06.30. 17:58, Michael Reichert wrote:

Hi,

Am Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:20:46 + schrieb Jonathan Schleuss:

The Los Angeles Times will host another import party to push the "Great
L.A. County Import" forward. We've imported more than half a million
buildings with the great help of locals and the folks from Mapbox.


Did each participant use a separate account for this import?


My focus is to use this import strengthen the Southern California OSM
community. But, the project is open to all. If you're in the area,
please join us.


Do you really believe that this helps the local community? A healthy map
has a strong community and a strong community consists out of people who
look after their neighbourhood on the map (i.e. keep data up to date).


a good import motivates local mappers. when they see that the map is 
kinda there but a pub, shop or housenumber is missing, it easier for 
them to start.

if they see blank area, they go "why bother".
building outlines are very hard to collect for amateur mappers, and it 
is a large amount of work even with good sources.


i'd like to say thank you to everybody who has done a proper, careful 
building import (no overlaps with existing buildings, no nodes on 
straight sections, orthogonalised etc :) ) - i know it was a lot of work.

...
--
 Rihards

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Re: [Talk-us] Join us for another import party at the L.A. Times June 25

[Michael Reichert]

Hi,

Am Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:20:46 + schrieb Jonathan Schleuss:
> The Los Angeles Times will host another import party to push the "Great
> L.A. County Import" forward. We've imported more than half a million
> buildings with the great help of locals and the folks from Mapbox.

Did each participant use a separate account for this import?

> My focus is to use this import strengthen the Southern California OSM
> community. But, the project is open to all. If you're in the area,
> please join us.

Do you really believe that this helps the local community? A healthy map 
has a strong community and a strong community consists out of people who 
look after their neighbourhood on the map (i.e. keep data up to date).

> Meetup even page Import guidelines Tasking manager I've also been
> working to improve our language on why we're doing this. Feedback and
> more ideas would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Why are we doing this?
> 
> • To improve our map! More data will allow more users to create projects
> and do analysis on a variety of things. How many units are located
> within 1,000 feet of a freeway? What's the average building age in a
> neighborhood? What's the tallest building on Sunset Boulevard? The data
> will tell you.
> 
> • To catch up with other cities! New York has buildings. Seattle has
> buildings. San Francisco. Portland. Even Bakersfield has buildings. L.A.
> County should too!
> 
> • Because a big earthquake is coming. Free and open data will assist
> first responders. And later it will allow folks to update the buildings
> with tags showing whether they have been destroyed, are dangerous or
> have been red-tagged.

Why do buildings have to be at OSM? Is there any problem which prevents 
you and others to use a free-licensed third party source for building 
data if you have/want to create an emergency map?

> • To encourage more edits. Once buildings are in the map, people will be
> able to orient themselves to the shapes, making it easier to add more
> data, like names or businesses.

Adding POIs also works without buildings on the map. You still have 
aerial imagery (i.e. Bing). Apart from offline editors like OsmAnd and 
MAPS.ME, you have an aerial image available at all those editors.

Best regards

Michael


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Re: [Talk-us] What should we do for wildfires?

[Russell Deffner]

Hi all,

 

I coordinated that Colorado Wildfire mapping effort in 2013. I am also a HOT
voting member and volunteer coordinator for our Disaster Mapping program.
Would be happy to talk directly with folks about this stuff. To try and put
the key points in an email - it can be something HOT does, but as with most
response efforts in the United States, Canada and Europe - those response
agencies (such as the USFS) typically are not going to use OpenStreetMap.  I
had some minimal success talking with the Incident Command team for the
Waldo Canyon fire in 2012 and that's what inspired my efforts in 2013.
However, as Incident Command teams are 'temporary' and change with each
incident, not sure those talks/efforts ever made it 'up the chain'.

 

Of course getting and keeping the map up-to-date is ideal and as a former
wildland firefighter I can say, it's really only helpful to those
'on-the-line' if the map is ready in advance; but of course the aftermath is
helpful for insurance, recovery, etc.  I was just looking over the Waldo
Canyon burn area a few weeks back as I noticed Mapbox imagery had been
updated in the area (now I think Bing has as well), but I was completely
surprised because almost every one of the 346 homes destroyed have been
built back, exactly the same as before - wasn't sure I was seeing things
correctly until I did find a few lots that are empty and 1 or 2 homes that
were built back slightly different. 

 

Guess my main point here is that we can and should map as much as we can,
but unless there are some locals who want to survey once the area is safe,
then tracing the buildings pre-disaster is maybe all that needs done.  I do
notice however it seems the imported landuse around Lake Isabella has an
offset to Bing and road network.

 

=Russ

 

From: Jonathan Schleuss [mailto:jschle...@me.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:53 PM
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-us] What should we do for wildfires?

 

The Erskine Fire   [1] has burned
more than 46,000 acres and killed two. It destroyed 200 structures. The
perimeter of the fire is huge. 

 

What's the right response from OpenStreetMap?

 

Should we go in and check roads? Add buildings? What if they've been
destroyed? Addresses? Shelters? Other items? Is this more a role for the HOT
group? I checked the talk-us archives, but didn't find a lot of "wildfire"
discussion and I'd love to know what you all think is an appropriate
response. There's some good background on the 2013 Colorado Wildfire Season
[3]. There's also a preemptive take with Portuguese Wildfire Mapping [4]. We
could probably find places inside the U.S. that are at a high risk and task
those areas out. California has a shapefile. [5] 

 

I figured I'd open it up for discussion. Please reply with your thoughts.

 

cheers,

Jon Schleuss

 

I'm a reporter and graphic artist at the Los Angeles Times. I got into
OpenStreetMap about a year ago thanks to at MaptimeLA event taught by
techlady   and Data411
 . I use maps in my work almost
every day. Currently, hacking on the Great L.A. County Building Import
  [5].

 

[1] http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4806/

[2]
http://www.fire.ca.gov/fire_prevention/fire_prevention_wildland_statewide

[3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2013_Colorado_Wildfire_Season

[4] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Portuguese_Wildfire_Mapping

[5] http://labuildingsimport.com/

 

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Re: [Talk-us] What should we do for wildfires?

[Josh Spencer]

I work for a large insurance company and stumbled upon open street maps and 
their humanitarian mapping for some international catastrophe events.  
Ironically, I've just switched email programs and my mail rule didn't transfer, 
so I have been paying more attention to this subscription.

I've always been curious about this and have been trying to see how all of this 
works.  I used a lot of public data as we planned for Fort McMurray response.  
Any sort of mapping that confirms damaged buildings would be a great resource 
as every time something like this happens, the information flow is different.  
I'm hoping that once I figure out how the maps and updates work, I can share 
them with some of the others I work with and contribute more.  I've got a few 
other industry contacts that would probably be up for the same as well.

If anyone can send me the best place to get started on fully understanding all 
of this, I would appreciate it.


Josh Spencer



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[Talk-us] WeeklyOSM 310

[Jinal Foflia]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue #310, is now available online in
English, giving as always a summary of all things happening in the
OpenStreetMap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/archives/7765

Cheers,

Jinal Foflia 
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Re: [Talk-us] What should we do for wildfires?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 06/30/2016 06:53 AM, Jonathan Schleuss wrote:
> We could probably find places inside the U.S. that
> are at a high risk and task those areas out.

I'm not sure I understand fully; are you planning to do something about
regions where a fire has happened and therefore our pre-fire data might
now need correcting, or are you talking about areas that are at risk -
and what would you "task out" about such areas? Pre-emptively improve
their mapping in order to make the data better for emergency response?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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