Re: Font changes
On Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 3:30:02, Ian A. White wrote: There are some weird things happening with fonts. Things that worked before now don't. My guess is that TB is now more strict about Unicode with fonts, and since Webdings doesn't contain an Unicode table (because it's abusing the font rendering), it's properly assumed to be an ASCII font and simply substituted by a font that does. The same thing happens with *dings fonts in most web browsers (with IE being the notable exception). -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ [ The Bat! 4.2.13.7 ALPHA on Windows 7 6.1.7600. ] The most important leg of a three legged stool is the one that's missing. -- Lyall's Fundamental Observation Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Font changes
On Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 10:38:47, Ian A. White wrote: But if it was a Unicode rendering issue, then would not the webding never display correctly? It displays correctly when composing the message, however gets converted when the message is moved to the Sent Mail folder or queued in the Outbox. It's likely that the change happens when TB has to encode the message you entered to something that can be sent - it's only at that time that it looks at Unicode tables in fonts. Also, the same thing happens with Courier. It gets converted to Courier New (my default font). Courier is another such font (it's a bitmap font from Windows 1.x era). -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ [ The Bat! 4.2.13.7 ALPHA on Windows 7 6.1.7600. ] You cannot have a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant. -- Frisch's Law Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Font changes
Hello Jernej, On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:10:53 +0100 GMT (22/Dec/09, 15:10 PM +0700 GMT), Jernej Simončič wrote: There are some weird things happening with fonts. Things that worked before now don't. JS My guess is I'd prefer a word from the developers rather than a guessing game. JS that TB is now more strict about Unicode with fonts, and since JS Webdings doesn't contain an Unicode table (because it's abusing JS the font rendering), it's properly assumed Improperly assumed, you mean. If it's changed, it's wrong. JS to be an ASCII font and simply substituted by a font that does. JS The same thing happens with *dings fonts in most web browsers JS (with IE being the notable exception). Well, the same people that made IE also made Windows. Just a thought of what is to be considered proper in this environment. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.13.8 ALPHA under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Font changes
Hello Ian, On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:40:16 +1100 GMT (22/Dec/09, 10:40 AM +0700 GMT), Ian A. White wrote: R It's Arial 36 followed by Arial 12 which are MY defaults IAW If viewed as HTML, then it should Webdings 36 followed by Courier New IAW 12. I view as HTML. How can I tell whether the large P is Webdings 36 or Arial 36? IAW So, it looks like the latest betas are changing this even on the IAW sending system to the default font. Not sure yet. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.13.8 ALPHA under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Voyager Alpha 4.2.13.9
Same opinion here, but I cannot delete it
I dislike Menu Navigator, but it can easy hidden: right mouse button over
toolbar / customise / select navigator, then 'remove item' menu / done
it works in Voyager without AV here.
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Re: Font changes
On Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 15:58:28, Thomas Fernandez wrote: Improperly assumed, you mean. If it's changed, it's wrong. No. If the font doesn't have an Unicode table, it's assumed to be CP1252 (I previously wrote ASCII, which was wrong). Nobody should be using such fonts with the assumption that anybody else will be able to see the same thing. Unicode has some dingbats standarized, and these characters will display properly regardless of the target system, as long as the computer has an appropriate font installed (this is a fairly safe assumption on modern computers). ☂ Well, the same people that made IE also made Windows. Just a thought of what is to be considered proper in this environment. You're assuming the wrong environment, which is in this case Internet. -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ [ The Bat! 4.2.13.7 ALPHA on Windows 7 6.1.7600. ] There is no traffic until you start to back out of your driveway. -- First Law of Driving Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Font changes
Hello Jernej, On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:07:50 +0100 GMT (22/Dec/09, 23:07 PM +0700 GMT), Jernej Simončič wrote: Improperly assumed, you mean. If it's changed, it's wrong. JS No. If the font doesn't have an Unicode table, it's assumed to be JS CP1252 Why? I'm sure you can point me to something. JS (I previously wrote ASCII, which was wrong). Changing your mind? JS Nobody should be using such fonts with the assumption that anybody JS else will be able to see the same thing. Unicode has some dingbats JS standarized, and these characters will display properly regardless JS of the target system, as long as the computer has an appropriate JS font installed (this is a fairly safe assumption on modern JS computers). ☂ I agree with the font, just not with the charset assumption. Well, the same people that made IE also made Windows. Just a thought of what is to be considered proper in this environment. JS You're assuming the wrong environment, which is in this case Internet. This is becoming too philosophical. I just learned from a fan of Al Gore's that he never said he invented the internet... Where should this lead, I ask you? -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.13.8 ALPHA under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Font changes
G'day Rick, On Tuesday, December 22, 2009, at 2:01:02 PM, you (Rick) wrote: R It's Arial 36 followed by Arial 12 which are MY defaults If viewed as HTML, then it should Webdings 36 followed by Courier New 12. So, it looks like the latest betas are changing this even on the sending system to the default font. It appears you are correct. Sorry about the delay in answering - I went to bed :)) -- Rick It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them. - P. G. Wodehouse v4.2.13.8 ALPHA on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Voyager Alpha 4.2.13.9
Hello Krzysztof, Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 17:40:56, you wrote: I dislike Menu Navigator, but it can easy hidden: right mouse button over toolbar / customise / select navigator, then 'remove item' menu / done The option to hide menu navigator in the title bar of a window (only works with Themes services disabled) will also hide it from menu. -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutinmailto:m...@ritlabs.com Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Font changes
On Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 17:22:59, Thomas Fernandez wrote: No. If the font doesn't have an Unicode table, it's assumed to be CP1252 Why? I'm sure you can point me to something. Historical reasons (read: fonts from the Windows 3.x era). JS (I previously wrote ASCII, which was wrong). Changing your mind? No, I just slipped. ASCII is a subset of CP1252 (it doesn't define characters with indexes 128-255, which CP1252 does). I agree with the font, just not with the charset assumption. Back in the Windows 3.x days, the fonts didn't define any charset, so the displayed character was defined by font name and it's index. That's why for example, the EE (East European) version of Windows shipped fonts with CE in their name (Arial CE, etc.), which replaced characters above index 128 with characters that were more useful for languages used in this region. If you didn't have the correct font, you eg. saw é instead of č. However, the same substitution worked with other characters, which is how the Wingdings (and later Webdings) font worked. However, starting with Windows NT and 95, the fonts included a Unicode character table, which is incompatible with such substitutions. For compatibility reasons, these fonts are now marked as symbol fonts, and still included with Windows, but they shouldn't be used anywhere where they're expected to be rendered on the client side (there was a thread about this exact problem with the same message on thedailywtf recently - mail clients other than Outlook/Outlook Express would display the message with a P instead of the graphic, even if it was sent the way author intended). -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ [ The Bat! 4.2.13.7 ALPHA on Windows 7 6.1.7600. ] Everybody is somebody else's weirdo. -- Dykstra's Law Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Voyager Alpha 4.2.13.9
martes, 22 dic 2009 at 17:49, it seems you wrote: The option to hide menu navigator in the title bar of a window (only works with Themes services disabled) will also hide it from menu. You're talking about Voyage isn't it? I disabled the Windows service Themes and I tried also selecting no theme in TB! (View / Themes / Default) I got the same AV in TB! (I'm not using Voyager) --- The Bat! --- Access violation at address 0073941D in module 'thebat.exe'. Read of address CC8E3822. --- Aceptar --- -- /\/ Using The Bat! 4.2.13.8 ALPHA Professional / \ / \ / Windows XP (5.1.2600 Service Pack 3) /\/ e t \/ i c i o u s Plugins: AntiSpamSniper 3.2.2.1 and miniRelayPlug 0.05.50 Moderator of Spanish TBUDL Spanish Translator of The Bat! Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Voyager Alpha 4.2.13.9
martes, 22 dic 2009 at 16:40, it seems you wrote: I dislike Menu Navigator, but it can easy hidden: right mouse button over toolbar / customise / select navigator, then 'remove item' menu / done I tried it but as I said I got one AV. Because I'm using OTFE I cannot edit the file with my options on the menu. -- /\/ Using The Bat! 4.2.13.8 ALPHA Professional / \ / \ / Windows XP (5.1.2600 Service Pack 3) /\/ e t \/ i c i o u s Plugins: AntiSpamSniper 3.2.2.1 and miniRelayPlug 0.05.50 Moderator of Spanish TBUDL Spanish Translator of The Bat! Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Font changes
Hello Ian, On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:45:13 +1100 GMT (23/Dec/09, 3:45 AM +0700 GMT), Ian A. White wrote: TF I view as HTML. How can I tell whether the large P is Webdings 36 or TF Arial 36? IAW The first is that it is a graphic character and not a P as in a text IAW character. IAW The other way is to highlight the line and the use the Reply using IAW quoted text. This is necessary if the problem is in the signature. IAW In the message editor you will see the font being used as long as the IAW format is HTML. My editor says it's Courier New 36. Indeed, Courier New is my default font. I don't see any font, only the size in the HTML code: copied from the source of mid: 929826618.20091222135...@wai.com.au span style=3D color: #00;Here's one with it above the cut mark.br br span style=3D font-family:''; font-size: 36pt; color: #008000;Pspan st= yle=3D font-family:''; font-size: 12pt; color: #00;nbsp;span style= =3D font-family:''; color: #008000;Please consider the environment befor= e printing this e-mailbr br /copied -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.13.8 ALPHA under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Voyager Alpha 4.2.13.9
Hello Maxim, On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:50:32 +0200 GMT (21/Dec/09, 0:50 AM +0700 GMT), Maxim Masiutin wrote: MM Voyager Alpha 4.2.13.9 is available at MM www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/voyager_install_4-2-13-9.exe MM What's new since Voyager 4.2.9.3 released on 23-Jul-2009? MM [-] Some fixes with Thai I would try it if you told me I now have a choice and can install it in plain (non-OTFE) mode. Kindly advise. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.13.8 ALPHA under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Font changes
Hello Jernej, On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:36:05 +0100 GMT (23/Dec/09, 0:36 AM +0700 GMT), Jernej Simončič wrote: No. If the font doesn't have an Unicode table, it's assumed to be CP1252 Why? I'm sure you can point me to something. JS Historical reasons (read: fonts from the Windows 3.x era). JS (I previously wrote ASCII, which was wrong). Changing your mind? JS No, I just slipped. ASCII is a subset of CP1252 (it doesn't define JS characters with indexes 128-255, which CP1252 does). I see. I agree with the font, just not with the charset assumption. JS Back in the Windows 3.x days, the fonts didn't define any charset, so JS the displayed character was defined by font name and it's index. JS [...] Thaks for the background of the Wingdings font. I was always wondering what it was good for. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.13.8 ALPHA under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.13.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
